In this conversation, Dr. Robert J. Wolf shares his journey of writing the book 'Not a Real Enemy,' which chronicles his parents' experiences during the Holocaust. He discusses the importance of remembering history to prevent its repetition, the lessons learned from his family's struggles, and the impact of their experiences on his life. The conversation also touches on the current societal issues related to anti-Semitism and the importance of education in combating hate. Dr. Wolf emphasizes the need for resilience, determination, and the value of family and community in overcoming adversity.

Well, Dr. Wolf, good to have you on the podcast. How you doing today?

I'm well, thank you and thank you for having me.

Good to have you on. I'm looking forward to this conversation. It's an important conversation in our historical remembrance of things and kind of get some perspective from someone who has written about it because we always can tend to forget history. If we forget history, we tend to repeat it. So looking forward to talking to you.

Appreciate you having me. It's a real pleasure.

So I love to ask my guests this question. This is my favorite question. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Well, it's probably advice I give today is no such there's no substitute for experience or As they said it I guess when I was a first -year resident you can learn something from every case Or you can learn something from every attending, know attending positions what we used to call the guys that trained us So that's that's a good start. Don't think you know it all you can learn something from every case You can learn something from every person every situation every advertisement

song, you can learn something you can always and key you know don't be that shark in the water don't be that stagnant. Never stop learning. It doesn't have to be a college or a graduate school type of thing. Never stop learning. So those are two of the pieces of advice. You get millions along the way and I'm sure we're to pass along one or two during the talk here so during our conversation.

I'm sure we will learn from you today, so I'm looking forward to it. So tell us a little bit about your history and kind of your upbringing.

Well, I was I'm from Michigan. I'm from I was born in Detroit. My parents are both from Hungary. So I'm first generation America. The book that we wrote, which I'm sure we talk about later, is about my dad and not so much my and my mom, too. Sorry. Later in the book. But both. But how they survive Hungary. But they had enough. Enough was enough. So they came to the United States. My dad redid his OBGYN residency. I guess that's the punchline of the whole thing. Dad became an OBGYN and delivered.

10 ,000 babies in the Detroit area after everything he had gone through, his parents, his family, all that death and destruction. So that's called redemption. That's the punchline. But so I was lucky to be raised in a suburb of Detroit. I was one of three Jewish people in my high school. My high school was like a little sub sort of a subset of Detroit. It was about 40 percent African -American, the makeup of my class and the whole school. People always ask when they hear that.

Well, how was racism and how was anti -Semitism back then? I guess they didn't exist, but I never felt it. I thought people were getting along. You know, we used to get picked on as freshmen just because we were small and ignorant and got caught in lonely hallways and in the wrong spot, wrong place at the wrong time, that kind of thing. But by the time we were juniors and seniors, you know, there was respect for each other. Everybody, everybody enjoyed each other's company. Everybody enjoyed each other's talents.

and applauded each other's successes. So, and that was athletes and musicians and brains and brawn and on and on and on. So that's high school, pretty diversified. And I went to a temple that was the only temple in my county, Gapar Mitzvah there. It was originally Orthodox. They have since raised it in the seventies in lieu of another conservative, more conservative temple, the only one in the county on the east side of Detroit. Needless to say, fortunate me, I go on to Tufts University.

for college, very fortunate, very good school, very tough, great education, completely different makeup of people. And boom, the world starts. So medical school at Michigan, go blue. And then I did my residency at Brown for diagnostic radiology and I did a neuro radiology fellowship at Yale. So the first 30 years of my life was pretty much tied up in pre -med, medical.

residency, sort of an indentured servant for a while until about 30. And then I started making a living. And even then it was a slow start. So it's hard. hard. It's a long path. You know, when you say four years of college, four years of medical school, four years of residency, that's a lot of sweat. It's, know, you just sort of brush it off. You say it's on your resume, it's on your CV, but it's a lot of sweat. It's a lot of well -spent time. It's a lot of wasted time, time in the hospital, time in the library, time away from your family, you know, which is important.

Yeah, you're true, sweet.

That's something else too. Family is everything. God, family, country. There's nothing corny about that that sticks with me. I imagine you're pretty close to that paradigm. So yeah, so here we are. So now, yeah, I lived half my life in New England. I've practiced medicine for 35 years. If lucky me, I still do part -time and half my life in New England, half my life in Michigan. And in the last four or five years now, I've lived down here in Southern Florida.

Glad to be around, glad to be sharing my book, glad to be sharing pearls about radiology with people, and I plan on doing that until they put me away. So thank God they haven't yet.

That's great. So we kind of talked a little before we got on about you wrote this book to kind of document your dad's journey and then your mother's journey a little bit later.

What inspired you to kind of put this, their history down on paper for people to read and learn about?

Well, I have to give you a little bit of the history of the book to answer that. In the 70s, my mom and dad did my dad's autobiography, paper and pencil to typewriter to a computer to a disc. So that evolved over 10, 20 years. They wrote the stories as though they'd happened the previous day. And we're talking about 30s, 40s and 50s. And it was very lucid. The sights, the sounds, the smells, really very, very...

poignant and very, it was just too, the stories are too unbelievable to not, them to be, for them to be fibs, for them to be, but anyway, that said, so they wrote the stories like the previous day. I mean, if dad said that that's what happened, then that's what happened, because he was a man of integrity. So that's the seventies. I read it once, the manuscript, didn't think much of it, sometime in my first 30 years of life, but again, I had a career, family, all of that, and then other focuses, so didn't think much of it twice until my father died in 97.

I thought, wow, these stories cannot sit here on a piece of plastic or on an electronic screen. They're too amazing. There's too many of them. And the message was clear right away. Anti -Semitism in the background. And you could see how important it was for my parents to leave their stories behind, their own past, and educating me. And I think they knew that I was going to do this for some reason. And don't you hate it when your parents are right? But they were right. Because six years ago, if you knew me, you'd say, this guy would never be doing this.

writer. You know, I've written medical journals, but that was usually under the guidance of somebody with a little bit of a boost or a requirement. But here we are. So it was very self motivating. The stories were so good and so many. mean, some harrowing, some happy, a lot of jokes, a lot of serious stuff, no sugar coating in the book. And we turn the autobiography into a biography and then multiple queries later, multiple rejections, 20 edits later, beta reads. There's a lesson right there. Never give up.

Never give up. So I ended up through a beta reader finding my co -author Janice. And so now we're at 2020, 2021. She rewrites the book. still a biography, which is that's what it's my biography by my dad, course, and Hungary's history, a little known Hungary from World War One to the end of Hungarian Revolution. And then it's an adventure. And that's part of the reason that I said, my God, nobody's going to believe what my dad had gone through. You know, what a bad ass.

I hope that term's not offensive. think it's a modern day term for the James Bond type that you don't even realize that they're that cool when they're alive and you're living with them until... And so it just was self motivating. And here we are a couple of years later, the book's been out. I'm still marketing strong. I'm still doing a lot of podcasts and proud to say going back to the US Holocaust Museum next month for my second book signing there, which is really the pinnacle of what we do. It's such an honor.

I never have a time to appreciate that kind of thing, I could do that every day because the last time was such a great experience. not to get off the subject, but you understand what I'm saying. The book kind of led me. The book summoned me, guess, like Superman's kryptonite. The book sort of summoned me.

Right. No, I love that. So the name of the book is Not a Real Enemy. Why that title? I'm just curious. It's not a title that kind of jumps out. So I'm kind of curious what made you come up with that land on that title.

It's great.

Great question. know, everybody I answer differently every time. So let's see if I can keep but nobody's going to watch 60 different podcasts by me unless I become famous like Bill Clinton or Shaq or somebody else that wrote the autobiography that people are lined up to help with. But that's a great question. So not a real enemy. It's kind of the theme throughout the book. My dad, his family, you know, his family killed in Auschwitz. Not a real enemy. They were local. They're people that really contributed to society. My dad's father was a dentist and

And he was a captain on a ship in World War I on the Black Sea. And they gave away free dental treatments to the underprivileged and on and on on, very good citizens in Hungary also. So there's that theme of it too. But not a real enemy was a moniker that the Russians gave my dad their last night in Hungary. So this is the last night before they escaped Hungary. This was my dad's fourth escape now, the night before his fourth. He sneaks into the medical school office.

So, know, his risk tolerance by now is huge because he's been through all these escapes and risky ordeals. So his risk tolerance is pretty, it's up there. So he sneaks into the medical school office between guards, which could have ruined his life if he was caught. And he wanted to see what the Russians had to say before they left in case they got arrested or caught and see what was on his dossier.

And in their arrogance, they described him as not a real enemy. Politically immature, does his work. But my dad and mom were smart enough to not share their opinions about how much they hated the communists. And they were smart enough to not buy into communism or Nazism, of course. They hated all of it. They loved Mother Hungary. So they described him as not a real enemy. But in the end, my mom, who was a medical student, she was 13 months away from graduating, a frontliner in the Hungarian Revolution, which now

a lot of people know about, as was my dad, besides OBGYN, doubled down as a trauma surgeon. So this was their second war, countless persecution still, and enough is enough. So he reads this thing and he says, just a describing is not a real enemy. So he wasn't, but in the end, he was a real enemy because they got out and you had two good people leave the country. They didn't buy into their system. They hated them all. They hated the repressive government. And so in the end, they were a real enemy. So it's an ironic title.

The title I originally wanted was the Hungarian Papillon, the Hungarian Butterfly, after the Great Escape Artist. But my co -author talked me out of that because she said the younger reader will not necessarily understand that reference. And then the other crazy one was the Six Book of Moses because of all the miracles that occur in it. And my dad's Hebrew name was Moshe, Moses. So it had been the Six Book of Moses was the other crazy one.

I love that.

Yeah, not a real enemy. we had great title and a great question. So in the end he was. But that's the theme throughout it. You know, this poor guy running around just because he's Jewish, looking for a place to eat, looking for a place to hide, looking for a place to escape and no light at the end of the tunnel. And who did he ever all he wanted to do was be a doctor, you know, just like his dad was a dentist and real threats to society.

Yeah, that's really interesting. You said that you weren't planning to write this book, but it kind of like you felt like your parents were kind of calling you to do it. Can you tell us as you begin to unpack this and read what was written there, what stood out to you that made you say, really have to get this on paper?

Well, just about all of it really. But the escapes was one. mean, you got to be kidding me. Somebody escapes once from a forced labor camp. I made Hogan's heroes look like the Adams family. I mean, it was ridiculous how my dad was in and out of this place and that place and just the willingness to do it. So split second timing makes you realize that I'm lucky to be alive, be around. My dad's lucky to be alive. A lot of luck, the hand of God, whatever you want, a combination of things.

So a major shortage of medicine, which I didn't really realize until I read the book. How my dad grew up, he was beaten sometimes by his father, which is something I didn't know. So I learned a lot. mean, I learned a lot. The other miracles where he hid, he hid in casinos. They snuck money into the country for them to get, talk about cloak and dagger stories. Other cloak and dagger stories like arguing with armed Russian soldiers at the border. It was unbelievable.

Things like that I'd forgotten the first time I read the manuscript and it was just, it's magnetizing, it's riveting, all the stories. couldn't, it's a page turner as a lot of people say. Except a few points where, you know, my dad's parents were killed at Auschwitz, that's put the book down type of thing. And even when I was working on the original project, I had to walk away for about a week or two just to kind of digest that and think, you know, the grandparents I never met, they died at 50.

And so we need some kind of a scapegoat. So I guess it was Hungary in the 1940s, 1944, and of course, many other countries throughout. So as you know.

I'm wondering, your dad went through so much, how did that impact his experience for you as a family? I'm sure it had to kind of like go with him throughout his life, but how did that impact him personally and your family as a whole?

After everything my dad went through, you would think he had PTSD. I mean, and mom too, but they didn't. They're Holocaust educators. My dad just, he loved his work. He focused on his work. He loved practicing medicine. He would have done it until the day he died. In fact, he practically did because he loved it so much. was, he and my mom were respected in the Jewish community, in the medical community, in the general community. Not only they were Holocaust educators, but also general educators, the arts.

They love the museum, the opera, the theater, travel, history, education. I can go on and on and on. Everything that different than me, which is sports and fusion jazz, guess. I'm a little less diverse. Now I like a lot of the stuff that, and I'm grateful for them to expose me to that, but they exposed other people as well. American friends too. So, but at home, not so much. Not the first half of my year of my life, you know, cause they knew I was pre -med and medical.

just trying to make a living and trying to. But the second half of life, yeah, they brought things up more and more and more. And and always when there was a fight when we were kids, I was always the spoiled American and you Americans are so spoiled and you've got a fridge full of stuff and this and that. so you would always buy the meant it. And he was right, too. And and that that argument carries on with me that we could toughen up a little bit or we could at least appreciate more what we have. And that's what happens when you read the book, too. So and that's what happened to me.

So yeah, it wasn't always in the household, but it was there and I respected it. But a lot of households never talked about it. A lot of people never documented what happened to them. And some had amazing stories too, survivors and non -survivors, both, you know, so.

So what do you hope readers take away from your family's story about what happened with the Hungarian Jews during the Holocaust?

Well, let's not let history repeat itself. mean, the last thing we want is a bunch of tanks and armored cars going up and down the streets with Hamas and Palestinian flags on them. And the rest of us start cowering down, waiting to see what our fate is and our destiny. So there's that. Appreciate what we have. Realize that what happened to my dad could happen to any one of us. It could be a bad neighbor, a bad business deal, bad local government, federal government, foreign government.

a natural disaster, anything. It could change your life on a dime and end up being like my poor father, on the run, starving, slave labor, not knowing where you're going even when you're free. Like talk about you're free, you've escaped, but where the hell are you going to go? That kind of thing. if you've got, enjoy your family. Life is short. And that's all my dad wanted was family and practice medicine.

do it in a free country. And finally, he got that after many, years of and that's another thing, determination. I like the audience to realize that in your most harrowing of times, determination helps that will to be free, that will to make your goals. Integrity is a big part of it. Hope is a big part of it. Redemption is a big part of it. So many messages. If you're an old guy like me, know, I'm about to be 62. Thank God, the good Lord's got me there.

I was able to write a book besides practice over 30 years of medicine. I'm very blessed. If you're bored with your job, go to part time, quit, do something else, write a book, give back to the community, volunteer somewhere, pivot. know, that's the so don't don't don't and especially don't sit around and protest what's going on. Don't protest against the United States people. And if you don't like what's going on in this country, then please move it along. You're welcome to go back somewhere else if you want because.

My parents gave so many years just to be able to come here and be free and have a life, a home, find a car, let alone you weren't allowed a radio back then. So let's not lose sight of what we have here. That's the biggest message, too. So on and on. I'm donating to the Holocaust Museum, a certain percentage of my my 10 percent of the author proceeds. And that's in perpetuity. That's to educate the kids. Ultimately, I want the book to be in the classroom to teach the kids, but

one person at a time. So the messages are strong and they're self -apparent. Fighting hate as well, of course, that's the big message.

So you've been at the Holocaust Museum and you've signed some books there. What's been the feedback from people who read the book?

I'm sorry, I didn't catch the first part of that.

What's been the feedback of people who've read the book so far?

What about the people that read the book back? I'm sorry.

Yeah, what kind of feedback are you getting?

it's unbelievable. mean, the words riveting, compelling, intriguing. Everybody, if you go through the reviews on Amazon, probably about 152 reviews, most of them are five star. It's touching. It's heartwarming, especially those people that knew my parents growing up. I knew my parents back when I was a kid, back in the 60s and 70s. So those people too. It's amazing the kind of support you get from your hometown.

and elsewhere. that's another thing, too. Now, it's people say the story is moving. It's amazing. Some people say it should be a movie. More than one person said that. Easier said than done. I say from your mouth to God's ears, because that's part of the thing I pictured as a movie as well. mean, just there's so many action scenes. Originally, I would have said Tom Cruise plays my dad, but everybody talks about his, I don't know, his existentialism. Actually, I can't even say the word.

Whatever his viewpoints outside of his acting. I'm like, I don't care about that But he might be a little bit old now to play a 20 or 30 year old guy. So but there's other people out there. So Yeah, but yeah, no good good reviews so far. Yeah, the books won four awards. So may I show the title real quick? Is that so So you as you can see it's won four awards as well. And you know, I'm not the type of guy to

Probably.

Yeah, sure, definitely.

sit on my laurels or pat myself on the back. I'm not even sure what it means. And here we are months later and I still haven't had time to just kind of digest that. But it does mean that people that are in the know, realize that the work is good quality and they recognize the importance of the work. And I guess that means quite a bit. But if it doesn't help me, if I can't get book sales through whatever means, whether it's talking about people that might be interested or in a way help me do more discussions about it and the fight against hate.

then it really doesn't matter how many awards you could win, 10 awards. But if I can't help curtail racism and anti -Semitism or at least get more people aware of it, they can help do things like write to Congress or write to, not the principal, well, principals of schools, know, or deans of colleges, whatever the case may be, local senators, that kind of thing. So, you know, get up and move. Add it to your poem that you write or your opera, whatever you do, your volunteer work.

right to Congress about the hate, so.

I'm curious, there's been a lot of things happening in our society today in terms of Jewish mindset and sentiment. What words do you have kind of for us to kind of tone down some of that in our culture today?

Well, it's gone on too long, as you know. mean, we really need to educate. I'm not going to be able to educate somebody who was born and raised in Gaza and brainwashed in the way that they were raised by Hamas people that were not going to be. And the poor North Koreans, they have no choice. The Hungarians were, you know, North Korea light, North Korea light. And China, that's going to be a difficult, difficult draw. But to those in the reasonable world, which is 99 percent of us.

you know, realize what's going on out there, realize that we need to educate the kids. Education starts at home. I'm trying to educate kids, but also adults that, like I said, this can happen to you, whether whatever group you are, I Jewish or Asian. We've all seen that Asian hate after after covid and then the Islamophobia after 9 -1 -1. It's another reminder. 9 -1 -1 was American targets. wasn't Jewish targets. Jews died, Asian people.

Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, a lot of people died in 911, plus all the collateral damage with that too. So people need to realize, people need to educate. It starts with the kids. That's why going to the Holocaust Museum and doing these signings is fantastic, because I get to talk to families and kids about all the genocide and how the book compares to what's going on today. And even 80, 100 years ago, it's unimaginable that the

kind of stuff that's going on then is still going on. And I guess that's my charge, it's my mission, it's my legacy for my parents.

So you've written one book, what's next for you?

I got asked at the last one too. I'm not really a professional writer. I've got three in the back of my head. That said, this by far will have been the most important one because of its message and what's in it and what I'm trying to do with it. Part two would be of my dad's story would be the next one. It'd be a lot shorter, a lot less harrowing, but interesting stories. This book ends in Vienna, Austria, where they meet my mother's stepfather. But then part two would take them from there.

Yeah.

to Detroit in the mid -60s. A lot of interesting stories, but yeah, not as long a book and not as harrowing, but interesting and people have asked about that. Third one, I've thought that's for years in the back of my head, the things they don't teach you in med school, which would be part autobiography, part lessons, part teaching about various things that kids don't know about like insurances, malpractice, partnership tracks, contracts.

Saving and investing, all kinds of things. Pre -med, know, pre -med, gross anatomy, what to expect, this and that. And then, of course, everybody's experience will be different too, which is an important thing too. And my most, my best stories, my worst stories, a couple of, you a little bit of that. But it's in the back of my head. It'd be kind of like a house of God type book. But I don't know if I'm ever going to do it because it's a ton of work. Authors beware. If you want to be an author, by the way, or a professional musician or anything, beware. It's going to be a lot of work.

And then part four, the thing how to invest in the bear market. I've been reading on investing for years, 30 some years. I've been I watched CNBC and Barron's and value line and investors business daily. I've been I'm not the world's expert at I'm no Morgan Stanley guy, but I guarantee I know more about investing than 90, 95 percent of this country. So how to make money in a bear market would be a book for it. Probably be about a 10 page book. But so those are the back of my head.

Yeah.

Meantime, I'm supposed to slow down. I'm down here in Florida. I'm supposed to relax, play more golf, know, you know, spend more time at the beach, that kind of thing. But here we are between COVID and the book and various issues, working hard at it. And I appreciate you having me here. These podcasts are great. And I forgot where you're from, Dr. Haney, Iowa, right? Did we say Iowa now?

Iowa, yeah. You have a nice tan though, so I can't argue. You must be on the beach a little bit.

It's probably my high blood pressure, that's been, they just lowered it for me almost involuntarily. I've just been through this heroin couple of months. It's a side story, but yeah, I'm not, don't get a lot of sun exposure and at least not lately, but you know, I like my once a month, twice a month round of golf. I don't do a lot of sun exposure now. And I wouldn't advise that. This, the heat, the hot Florida sun is tough. It's once in a while, I suppose, where the sunscreen and all that.

And I hate sunscreen. gets in your eyes. And if you're trying to play golf, you your grips get all slippery and nobody, you you take, you take a dip and then you got to put the stuff on again, you know, so, but, it's, you got to everything in moderation, I guess, right? I mean, sun, all of that kind of thing. So, yeah, just trying to enjoy life and, and, and, but yeah, you don't have to work. I'm contemplating retirement from radiology as well. Been part -time for, I don't know, almost 20 years now. So I am close to that too.

That's right.

I've done my dues 30 some years. It's a long time, right? mean...

It's his, a long time. But now I have to ask you this question since you're thinking about retirement. What do you want your legacy to

Well, the legacy I want the book to be, you know, we've talked about world famous authors and all that. I want the book to be famous. I want the story to be famous. Not me. mean, not just the idea of what my dad went through, how tough he was, how he got through it all, contributed to society, no PTSD, strong back on the shoulders. That's where I my legacy, you know, and then, of course, all the other things we talked about today. Gratitude, appreciation, integrity.

whatever a few lessons I mean there are many lessons that are combined into and here's how do I put my dad's life how do put anyone's life into an hour discussion or a 400 page book I mean it's it's just you know we do eulogies for people to pass away and how do you put their lives into 10 minutes 15 minutes so what else you know I legacy to my parents so legacy to the family again donating to the Holocaust Museum I'm sure my mom is

smiling about that because she was the one most enthusiastic about teaching about that. And my mom had it easier than my dad through most of World War II. She hid with her mom and grandmother in lot of Christian homes and farmlands, kind of away from all the action. So a little bit luckier than my dad. Of course, she had a lot of family members past, you know, killed as well, like her grandfather, a rabbi, which I might have mentioned earlier. So.

Obviously not with them at the time. So they separated the ladies from the men. But now it's that's for my mom and dad and for for people that care and for people that want to fight hate. There's always going to be hate out there, but there's always going to be people like me out there and go out and listen to these people like Martin Luther King. Go out and listen to Moses. Listen to Gandhi. Don't do it when it's too late. These people are ignored. These are the people that should be the heroes, not these tick tock, these tick tock foolish people.

bouncing and dancing around. And I look at them too. I mean, it's so distracting and so inane. But read about people that have helped this country, have helped this world and how in many cases their message was given, was received sometimes, in some cases too late. Jesus is another one. There's many of them. So don't let it be too late.

good advice. Where can people find your book, not a real enemy, and connect with you on social media?

Not a real enemy. The true story of a Hungarian Jewish man's fight for freedom can be found. Well, you can find me at RobertJWolfMD .com. That's my website. You can email me, please, if it's about the book or something related. Robert at RobertJWolfMD .com. I'm happy to respond. With the great people, phone numbers exchanged and we could talk about doing book talks and presentations and book signings and other things like that.

The book is available on Amazon now in multiple versions. You can get the hardback, the paperback, the audio, now, well, now the audio, which is new, and the Kindle version all on Amazon. So Barnes & Noble, Tufts University, my alma mater, it's on sale there. Walmart online, of course, and now four Holocaust museums and counting, Michigan, Illinois, Washington, D .C., and Long Island. I've got a Washington, D .C.

Book signing I mentioned next month. So if you're in the area, come by Columbus Day weekend, say hi, sign a book for you, talk about the subject. And my Long Island book lecture is in March. So I'm looking forward to that too. And hopefully many more. So the books available. Amazon's the easiest and the quickest. But if you look for it, if you Google not a real enemy or Robert J. Wolf, MD, if you don't find me, then somebody's fired.

There you go. Well, Robert, thanks so much for writing this down and recording its history for us and for what you do because we need to break through the fog of the past and commemorate it, keep the history in our mind so we can avoid the mistakes we've made in the past. So thank you for sharing this journey, the story of your parents and others with us today.

Thank you for having me, Reverend, and I must say thank you for your service too, because our men in the cloth, I don't think are thanked enough, and we need more of that morality and the morals and ethics, Judeo -Christian values, that kind of thing. So thank you for what you do, it's important.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. Blessings, my friend, on your book sales and on your book signings.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.