Happy Pride! Sloane Spencer catches up with music journalist and Rainbow Rodeo founder Rachel Cholst during a period of both profound loss and exciting professional growth. Rachel reflects on the unexpected death of a longtime friend, sharing how music, ritual, and community have helped her navigate grief, while also discussing major milestones including Rainbow Rodeo’s subscriber drive, plans to revive its podcast, and the news that SiriusXM’s Country Pride channel will become a permanent offering, with Rachel continuing as one of its voices. Along the way, the conversation explores the role of music in memory and healing, highlights emerging and established artists from the queer, indie, and Americana worlds, and touches on Rachel’s ongoing creative projects, including a comic book series (Kickstarter!). The result is a thoughtful, heartfelt discussion about loss, resilience, artistic community, and the ways music helps us make sense of life’s highs and lows.

Pin Our Tastemaker Playlists

• Apple Music
• Tidal

Musicians Featured This Episode

• Andrew Sa
• Micah Schnabel and Vanessa Jean Speckman
• North Ingalls
• VNV Nation

Musicians Mentioned in Our Conversation

• Aaron Lee Tasjan
• Call Me Rita
• Frank Turner
• Gorillaz
• HC McEntire
• Jeff Rosenstock
• Jason Molina
• Jimmy Eat World
• Johnson and Magnolia Electric Company
• KMFDM
• Kim Richey
• Lake Street Dive
• Lavender Country
• Mount Moriah
• Paisley Fields
• Patrick Haggerty
• Procol Harum
• Rammstein
• Ratboys
• Two Cow Garage

The Regulars

• Rachel Cholst
• Sloane Spencer

Chapters

• 00:04 - Dealing with Loss
• 03:43 - New Beginnings: The Rainbow Rodeo Fundraiser
• 15:00 - Navigating the Landscape of Country Music and Sirius XM
• 16:00 - The Influence of Holographic Performances
• 26:24 - Navigating Grief and Music
• 32:03 - Transition to New Music Discussions
• 35:53 - The Impact of Social Media on Music Connections
• 44:06 - Exploring Creative Passions

Recommended If You Like

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So how have you been?

I'm okay.

You know, one of my good friends passed away unexpectedly.

Yeah.

A couple weeks ago.

But then also, I've had a lot of exciting news professionally, so.

The yin and the yang.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's like, well, now that the funeral's done, there's all this good stuff happening.

So I think I kind of freaked out my therapist, and we can weave this in because, like, obviously, the.

You know, for a couple weeks, I was just, like, really upset and stressed out because he had been on life support for a little bit.

And then it took his.

Even though, like, we all knew, like, you know, without going into too many personal details, like, we knew, you know, from the beginning that he wasn't coming back.

So there was, like, handling all that and then waiting for his family to plan the funeral.

Another funeral done.

So I think, like, it's important as humans that we have these practices because that's what provides the closure.

Oh, I have.

So I could have a whole episode about this.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

I found myself trying to think of, like, what are some.

Like, he and I did not have the same musical taste, like, at all.

Which, again, we'll get into in the episode or as we start talking about the music.

So I was like, so what are some songs about, like, dead friends that I know?

And all of them are, like, by people who I would, like, spit in their face if I saw them in the street now.

So I was like, well, I can't use those as my personal soundtrack right now.

The one I landed on was.

I think it's the last song on Bleed American by Jimmy Eat World.

I can look at the song title, but the refrain is like, may angels lead you in.

And, you know, he is not religious, so this is not, like, a song that I think would have any particular significance, but also the.

Just the idea of, like, you're singing this song to your loved one, and hopefully it's all smooth up there.

Welcome to the Dive Bar Music Club podcast, where the guest hosts drop in and out, but the opinions are always passionate in the playlists.

Loud.

It's like cheers if everyone at the bar had a strong take on 90s alt rock, or a suspicious number of burned CDs around our table, you'll find an emerging touring songwriter, a former cult band favorite whose work since then is even more interesting, a portrait photographer with a not so secret metal penchant, a record store owner who learned about Swifties the hard way, a retired folk singer who regrets nothing, and a zine maker with more cool music projects than we can count.

We're all just here to share what we're currently obsessed with and maybe convince someone that yes, that weird Icelandic synth folk band is worth a listen.

Okay, that last one's probably me, Sloan Spencer.

It's dive bar music club, low key, high taste happy hour for music nerds.

Having a fun time this summer.

Doing things a little bit differently with some one on one catch ups.

This particular time I'm looking forward to chatting again with Rachel Colt.

It's been a while since we've had a chance to chat, but also a little note on the audio.

We are just recording a phone call here so if the quality is slightly different than our typical episodes, that is what is going on.

You don't have to adjust your audio.

Maybe maybe turn us up a little bit.

Anyway, Rachel, holy cow.

Happy Pride and Holy wow.

Have you had a lot going on?

It has been a while since we've chatted.

What's been up with you?

Yeah, well we could start with some of the good stuff because it is related to the pride always.

Yeah.

So first of all, Rainbow Rodeo, the queer country site and zine that I edit, is running a fundraiser.

So I'm just going to plug that Right now we're trying to get to 600 subscribers.

So we're about, as of this recording, we're about 50 people away from that.

Trying to increase the number of monthly subscriptions to 500amonth.

So basically doubling where it is right now.

And the reason for that is because I feel like every time I'm in a good flow with the site and caught up on reviews and all, that something crazy happens in my personal life that turns everything upside down.

So it would be really great to be able to hire more people to write things so that most of my responsibility is making sure the site's working and so that you can all find out about music when it comes out and so that the artists can have some help spreading the word about their music when it comes out and not like a month later.

Definitely.

And okay, so I will confess I am a subscriber and a supporter, but I didn't realize, I thought I already was because I get the emails and so you had changed some sort of hosting or something quite some time ago at this point.

And I didn't realize at that time that I was not subscribed and so then I was like, oh my God, I feel terrible.

But so it's a really, from a user standpoint, it's a really easy process through the link that you have?

Yeah.

So I've been using a site called Ghost.

Similar idea to Substack, Just monthly subscription.

Without the fascist problems.

Yeah, I was gonna say.

But I chose it specifically because, like Substack for sure.

Like it always gave me like a bad vibe, even from the beginning.

And then as more and more came out and yeah, I think the worst part of all that was Ted Gioa, the famous jazz critic and music writer, is a wonderful writer.

But imagine at this point he makes most of his money off of Substack and he just keeps writing essays like defending it.

And I'm like, grow.

You don't have to.

You could just be on Substack, it's okay.

But anyway, Ghost, for anyone who's trying to start thinking of starting a newsletter or a blog, and I'm not paid by them.

Right.

They are a nonprofit, so they're in theory, you know, there's no motivation to just have shitty people on there who will generate clicks, give folks that link.

So that they can pop over there.

Yeah, yeah.

So the website is Rainbow Rodeo magazine and then you'll see a little button to subscribe.

Yeah, you know, it's a full website.

And once I get my act together, there will also be a podcast feed.

Yay.

And then I'll get back to doing the Rainbow Rodeo podcast.

Yay.

Exciting.

So it will be part of the subscription or it will be part of the website, or both.

It'll be both.

So there'll be a special subscriber only feed and I've been interviewing artists about the songs that made them gay.

And that will be a subscriber only project.

What a great premise.

I love this.

And then it's been fun.

And then, you know, I'll get back to doing like a monthly sort of radio show style podcast about like new music, music that like queer artists who never got that spotlight the first time around, you know, and what's good right now.

So yeah, I'm excited to get back into doing that.

But again, my personal life keeps doing all kinds of crazy stuff.

So.

Yeah, I'm a gallows humor laugher, so.

No, no, it's totally true.

But there's also good stuff happening too.

Please subscribe.

You can subscribe for like a dollar a month.

If you subscribe right now, or at least until we get up to the two goals.

You will be able to get a free issue of Rainbow Rodeo 7, which is out right now when you're listening to this, as well as a free T shirt.

Awesome.

And the Rainbow Rodeo T shirt is very Cool.

It's got a little punk rock cowboy with a lasso on it.

I do love, I love the artwork that you use.

Is there a particular artist that you like to work with?

No, I've been trying to kind of spread that around.

Oh, that's cool.

I like that idea, I think.

Yeah, it makes everything, it makes everything.

Special so that each time you have something, there's a, there's a new take on it.

Yes.

So the COVID for number seven is gorgeous.

There's this artist who does oil paintings named Anthony Hurd, H U R D who does like a lot of oil paintings of like gay cowboys or cowboys, like in drag or if you're thinking of as a historical piece, like genderqueer cowboys might be the better way to say that.

It's not like they're dressed as, as drag queens, but like an old style cowboy dancing in the desert in like a skirt who, you know, you can read as male.

Like, it's, it's just beautiful work.

And I was very grateful that he was willing to take the amount of money I was able to offer him to use the COVID It's another reason to increase our budget.

Absolutely.

So we can pay artists a better rate for their work.

And you've had other stuff going on related to Pride Month as well.

Yes.

So for the fourth year in a row, I am the voice, quote unquote, of Sirius XM's channel, Country Pride.

Here's the exciting announcement that I'm breaking here for the first time for the past couple of years.

Country Pride was just offered for a limited amount of time during June for Pride Month.

Right.

But it is now going to be a permanent channel on Sirius xm.

Oh, this is huge.

I know.

I think there are other people who are more plugged into the industry who can like, talk more about the implications of like, what it means for Sirius XM.

Oh, this is like.

Yes, because SiriusXM, even if you and I don't really listen to it, has like a really specific space within like country music.

Right.

Because especially if you're driving around a lot and driving between states, it's a lot easier for, to have satellite radio.

And so for better or worse, like the artists we love to hate, like Florida, Georgia Line, Morgan Wallen, Zach Bryan, all those douchebags.

But like, they're famous in part because of streaming, but also because of SiriusXM.

Having been in radio as long as I was, the role that SiriusXM specifically is playing right now is so specific to that.

It is absolutely taken over vehicular audio for a certain sub segment and that is in country, is definitely their mainstay.

Oh, this is wonderful news.

I'm so glad to hear this.

So what that means, you know, for the casual person like me, is there is somebody, you know, the corporate suites at Sirius XM who's saying, you know what, we need to have this be a channel because there's something here.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Oh, this is fabulous.

My car came with SiriusXM a million years ago, so I used it for like the period of time that it was free.

And then I didn't subscribe.

But I learned after the fact that a couple of times a year they give you like a free week or a free month, which I didn't know.

And then also because this is so outside of my personal listening preferences, but it's incredibly popular.

They have an app that many, many, many people listen to because there are additional channels available through the app that are not on the regular car version of your radio.

So this may be ancient news to people, but because I'm not enmeshed in the world of Sirius SiriusXM anymore, I didn't realize this.

So heads up.

Yeah.

So I am trying to figure out if it's going to be a channel on the satellite, but the email I got saying that this is happening said it's going to be on anywhere you can stream Sirius xm.

That is fabulous news.

Can you share if you'll be associated or affiliated with them in any way?

Yes, I am.

I'm going to continue to be the voice.

So if you haven't listened to Sirius xm.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you again.

I haven't really done much.

It's just, it's very nice to be invited to have the opportunity.

But I think like most of the programming, the advocacy to even make the channel.

I'm going to shout out Kathleen Sinclair, who is the program director.

Absolutely.

For this channel.

And also there's an alternative channel which I think is sort of like all the artists we like to shout out here.

Oh, I didn't realize.

She's now the program director of the Highway.

That's like a big deal because that's where all these new artists and stuff get broken, for better or worse.

Morgan Wallen, RADIO but you know what?

She's about to have a baby, so she better make those big bucks.

That is my opinion.

Not serious.

That's hilarious.

But yeah, no, that, that's very much.

I'm sure her and other people within Sirius xm.

So the extent of my involvement is that they're sending me little ad reads.

Listen, this is great.

Just having, as I said, having been in radio as long as I was, and especially because I come from a corporate radio background, it's just having them make this happen.

Now, we all know more than a day late and a dollar short, but the fact that it's happening at all is great because radio, as a rule, is so averse to change.

They want softball hits at all times and, you know, just to.

To carry the analogy through on the good things.

So maybe they'll be covering women's softball.

Anyway.

Yeah.

This is awesome.

I am so glad to hear this and congrats to you for being part of it.

You deserve the seat at the table and people need to hear the perspective that you bring.

I'm so excited for you.

This is awesome.

Yeah, no, thank you.

I'm actually about to record like the intro copy after we're done here.

Sweet.

Yeah, I made a little like it's a New York City apartment, so I can't sit in my closet and record, but I'm like hanging a blanket over my closet door and I'm going to talk into the clothing by way of having like a sort of audio, like an echo proof part of the house.

My first home studio was I moved my clothes.

I have like a one bar closet, so I was facing the clothes and I put all the blankets in the entire house stacked up behind me.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, I'm just doing the best I can here.

Yeah.

I mean, I'll be honest, I think like my podcast, I've sounded okay without doing all that, but obviously they're going to need to judge it up a little bit more.

Yeah, well, you know, when you're the most popular voice on the station, then they can book you some time at a fabulous podcast suite in New York.

That's right.

That's convenient to you.

And yeah, absolutely.

I mean, they do have a big office in midtown, so I'm sure there's like a studio there.

Yes, but yeah.

So also, if there are any artists who are listening who are queer, you can find me on Instagram, Rainbow Rodeo Mag and let me know about music because I can, you know, basically suggest songs for them to add to the rotation.

And from what I've heard from artists in the past, Sirius XM pays a very good rate.

So.

Yeah.

For artists, you know, especially compared to streaming.

So, yeah, you know, my work, my hope is that I'm always helping to open those doors for other people.

And so I don't really see my Doing this as just for me, although of course it's very nice, but also to just keep making the table a little bit bigger for everyone else.

Exactly.

Oh, man, this is fantastic news on just on a personal level, but on a bigger scale.

This is a really big thing.

I'm so glad to hear this.

Wow.

I'm blown away that this is happening in such a great way.

So, man, you.

You've definitely had some high highs, and I know you've mentioned that you've had some really low lows.

And I know for you that music is always part of what gets you through and gets you to and all of that.

Where have you been musically lately?

I think a little all over the place.

So actually a lot of the songs I'll be introducing here are from, like, basically the beginning of the year.

Until now, I haven't had a chance to, like, shout out, let's do it.

Let's talk about it.

I haven't had a chance to be on the show.

So I guess first we could start with some of the bad news.

I wrote about this in the Rainbow Rodeo newsletter, but unfortunately one of my best friends passed away unexpectedly.

And one of my first thoughts was I don't even know what his favorite band was because he was into a lot of, like, video game and J Pop.

And I think once I turned, like 16, like, I can't.

Those frequencies were no longer appealing.

The hologram artist.

You're not.

This isn't your thing.

Yes.

So I'll talk about, like, HoloLive, which maybe some of you might have heard about.

I think.

I think it was popularized by a character.

It's like a holographic anime character who perform songs.

So sort of like in the way that the Gorillaz were like a cartoon band.

Yes.

But now it's like 3D.

So like I was saying, a friend of mine took their kids to see one of these performances fairly recently, and I had never heard of this before.

And they said they were like, oh, I'm super not excited to be spending money to be going to do this.

But they said that from a, like, performance experience sort of thing.

It was actually way more interesting than they were expecting.

But they were still like.

And it's sort of like if you go to the laser light show and they play classic rock music in the background, it's just different.

It was sort of that analogy of the experience.

Exactly.

It's like.

It's like an N M name.

Yeah.

Like, when I was writing the newsletter, I had perfect to recall.

I know that.

And Now I just don't.

Anyway, there was the one that kind of started it, and everyone was like, what is this?

And I guess there are other characters to have followed, but I think he.

He understood.

I would have teased him mercilessly if he had told me that he actively followed that.

That whole thing say, we can have best friends even if they have terrible music.

So the first song I wanted to talk about is, like, maybe in the entire 25 years that we knew each other, the only song that I liked, he shared with me, and that is by an artist called VNB Nation.

VN as in Nickel V Nation.

So I feel like I remember listening to it in middle school, but that would have been middle school going into freshman year for me.

Sorry.

For everyone who was thinking about, well,.

No, like, I'm listening.

I listened to this one.

I never heard of this artist at all.

And I was listening to it and.

Well, actually, first I read about the artist, and I was like, I actually think I might like this based on the description and because I like some electronic music and I like dance music and that sort of thing.

And then I listened to it, and I was like, I'm not sure what's happening here.

I have no.

It's like a weird song.

It's like eight minutes long.

Yeah.

I have no framework for how this fits in the world of music.

Yeah.

But, you know, that was when he.

And, like, so we had known each other in middle school, and then we went to the same high school together.

In the world of private schools, you're not just automatically all gonna go to the same place.

Right.

Which I'm realizing, explaining to most people listening to this, like, well, why wouldn't you go to the same school?

Interesting.

Yeah.

It's New York.

Yeah, it's New York City.

Even if we weren't in private schools, you know, there's, like, a million high schools you could go to.

So we've known each other for a very long time.

Yeah.

And the friends we made together in high school, they were all into, like, German culture, like, kmfdm, like, industrial stuff.

Like edge.

Edge words before their edge words.

Got it.

This is totally.

This makes perfect sense to me now.

Okay.

Exactly.

Never over the line in terms of, like, where what teenage boys are doing today, but Right.

You know, kind of plugging the bear.

Totally get it now.

Got it.

This.

Suddenly, this all makes Sense.

Yes.

And of course, the Matrix had just come out, so KFDM and Ramstein were, like, sort of more visible among a certain type of child who use the Internet too much for their own good.

You know, I did listen to that stuff.

I do still have, like, a Christmas album that one of our, like, mixtape.

One of our friends made of industrial music.

And I think there was some songs on there that are actually pretty.

But I think the Airship song by the NV Nation stood out to me from this whole period of time because it's melodic.

Right.

But even, like, I not listen to the song at all until, like, just now to refresh my memory.

But I kind of remembered it being very atmospheric and pleasant.

Yeah.

I'm actually trying to give me a migraine.

Right.

I actually liked it.

And I was kind of like, okay, I'm not sure that, like, this is going to be a new band for me, but this is something that expands what I even knew existed, because I just wasn't familiar with this end of the spectrum at all.

Totally.

And I think, like, there's, like, the storytelling aspect is probably also what stood out to me compared to other music that we would have shared with each other.

That makes sense.

So we were talking a little bit before the official recording started, and we were talking about, like, how music and grief and the.

How music helps us process.

And this has been just a. I was saying to you, this has been a recurring theme for, like, the last three or four episodes.

Just.

And also in my personal life for several years.

Where is that for you with this sudden loss of your best friend?

Yeah.

I mean, to be honest, because of all the good stuff happening, including some stuff happening in, like, my actual day job, like, I haven't really had much time to listen to music in the last couple of weeks.

That's definitely been making me grumpy.

Yeah.

I think, like, music definitely helps me, like, self regulate.

That's like, me.

Yes.

And as a social worker, like, I do mean that in, like, the actual sense of the term.

Totally.

Yeah.

So I think, like, just trying to think of any kind of music that would be comforting to me, but also, like, musical memories we would have shared, which leads into the next artist I do want to talk about because he, you know, he just really wanted to hang out with his buddies and was kind of up for anything as long as we were, like, hanging out.

So we went to a lot of Jeff Rosenstock shows because one of our other friends was really into that ska album that Jeff Rosenstock put out.

Yeah.

So we'd go to the shows and enjoy the opener.

And then the crowds for Jeff Rosenstock's sets were, like, way too intense for us.

Like, we're in our late 30s now.

We can't be boshing like this.

Right.

But that was, like, a lot of hangout over the last couple of years.

Or I dragged him to the Johnson and Electric Company show in New York a couple weeks ago, and that was the last time we hung out in person.

Oh, wow.

So I think, like, that was just weird to look back and think about it now because, like, the whole.

The whole show is we miss our friends.

Not.

And I don't mean that a derogatory way.

No, no.

And a lot of Jason Molina's songs were about, like, wanting to die.

So, yeah, Just, like, I realized that Farewell Transmission is probably the last song he heard live, you know, by a live band.

Like, that's freaky.

So it's also making me think about how I want to be spending my time.

And, like, if you're bored, you can just leave.

Right, Right.

But he was a.

He was a good sport about staying to the end, for sure, because I think he was kind of not physically comfortable standing so long.

But, yeah.

So I had said before we started recording, like, what are some songs that I could think of about, like, grieving for a friend?

And it was, like, a Laura Jane Grace song and, like, a Frank Turner song that also has some specific memories tied to him.

But, like, if I saw either of those two guys in the street right now, I would just, like, spit on their face.

So it was sort of hard to, like, think of music I could listen to that would help me.

Yeah.

So, you know, we're just getting through it, but I think there's also a lot of stuff that is taking on, like, new significance as a result.

So, like, this airship song was about, like, the wonder of, like, experience watching, like, an airship rise above, like, the city skyline for the first time.

But it's also just about transcendence.

Like, taking me with you, I think, is the refrain.

So, you know, feels a little different now.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

When this came up in recent episodes, it's come up organically because this is just something that's been on my mind for a long time.

But when I was talking with Aaron Lee Taschen recently, he and Kim Richie wrote a song about the songs of your deceased.

Like, your deceased loved ones, their favorite songs.

And I was like, oh, yeah.

And I was telling him the story about driving along after my dad died, and winter shade of Pale came On.

And I, like.

I had to pull my car over.

It's like, I'm not, like, a huge purple harem fan, but that was one of my dad's top three favorite songs.

And I was like, okay, pulling the car over, just gonna sit on the side of the interstate crying.

The depth of music, when you do know that something connected to that person or you have the shared experience of seeing shows together with that person, even if it wasn't the thing that spoke to them, it just brings a different connection that somehow, for me, at least, I can't always process in the moment.

The processing comes later when I reflect back on it sometimes.

Sometimes unwillingly.

But, yeah.

I don't know.

This is on my mind a lot.

Yeah, totally.

And I think the interview you had helped me.

I forget if I listened to that while this was all going on or right after, but, you know, just the idea of, like, sometimes you're just going to want to cry in, like, the middle of the street, and that's just okay.

It's totally okay.

Yeah.

And I've been having those moments.

The good news is nobody's going to bother you.

Just keep.

Yeah, that too.

Nobody cares.

Yeah.

No, yesterday I was at the subway stop where his parents live and, you know, got emotional about that.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I think, like, also, you know, we can move on.

But that's been kind of, like, weird or interesting or all of the above is because he was a young man and because we've known each other for so long.

Like, all these people who I grew up with in various settings, including some of our, like, middle school teachers, came to the viewing.

That's why there are a lot of people who have been reaching out and checking in who I would not otherwise have talked to or didn't really talk too much.

And it's been kind of like, a beautiful thing.

Yeah.

To, like, get some of these people back together in the same room for the first time.

Right.

In decades.

But also sad that this is what it took.

Totally.

Yeah.

That's.

Call your friends.

Right.

It's such a relatable feeling.

Yeah.

I mean, like, I don't want to.

I don't want to harp on it too long, but also, like, I think the thing for me with grief is that, you know, everyone talks about, oh, the five stages of grief, blah, blah, blah.

Well, that's all well and good on paper, but I literally remember sitting in my house and being like, okay, I'm ready for the next stage.

I'm tired of this.

Yeah.

But it doesn't Work like that.

It's more like you're at, like, the public wave pool, and they just sort of throw different ones at you, and sometimes they hit you, and sometimes you're fine for a really, really, really long time.

And then you're like, what the hell?

Why am I.

Why am I feeling this so strongly right now, out of the blue?

So I don't know.

I think that not always having a religious framework, that I'm talking about myself for life and death and what are the process of that can be difficult.

And I was at a funeral for a friend of mine who is quite religious, Jewish.

And she looked at me and we've been friends since we were in eighth grade.

And she said, the helpful part about this is I know what we're supposed to do.

And I was like, oh, that speaks deeply to me right now.

Like, there's a process, and it helps the living move through this.

Just move.

Move.

Yeah.

Like, you.

You.

There are these things that you do.

And I was like, that makes perfect sense to me.

And so culturally, I understand where that expectation and ritual plays a role.

Whether you quote, unquote, believe any of it or not.

I don't know.

I reflect back on that of the.

I know what to do.

Exactly.

And then, yeah, I think we were saying before the podcast, like, you need to see the coffin go to the ground or the urn or anything, because you need to have that, like, visceral confirmation that the chapter was closed.

Totally.

Whatever that looks like for you all.

Because I could see his mom, like, coming back to life afterwards.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So.

But to move on.

Yeah.

So another news.

Yeah.

So in other news, I think, but, like, tangentially related, we were the kind of common area for music between, like, our other concert friends and me.

And then, you know, by extension, him was like, there are a lot of bands I'm seeing coming out, especially like, the Midwest, North Carolina, that are, like, indie rock with sort of country and Americana influences, definitely.

So, like, we were all planning to go to the next Rat Boys show together, right?

So I'm not gonna suggest a Rat Boys song at this moment, but we have been talking about them.

A band in a similar vein, also a queer band called North Ingalls, I n G A L L S, which seems to be a street in, I think, Ann Arbor, where they're all living together.

Similar vibe of, like, sort of indie rock influences, a little bit of twang.

And the song I wanted to shout out is the title track of their album, to be web back, having listened to the album a couple of times.

Like, there's definitely things like, well, this is their first album, which is fine.

Right.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

Totally.

But you can see where the bones are.

And I'm so excited for them to keep going.

Yeah.

You could have convinced me this band was from North Carolina.

Just listening to the record.

Yeah, totally.

And, like, they do some really cool stuff.

Like, as the album progresses, it kind of goes from like.

Like, nice, like, kind of jam band sort of vibe to, like, it's really, like, sort of sensual R and B at the end.

And, like, it all just really fits together.

And then because, like, stuff keeps coming up, I haven't been able to write about them in the way I've been wanting to, so I wanted to make sure I shouted them out on here.

The song, specifically the title track that you chose has moments of the song that sound very much like a couple of other bands.

So when you listen to the record, you can definitely hear, like, influences that maybe the next record will be more.

They'll be the essence that helps them show themselves rather than maybe we want to make a so and so song.

But it's very well done, and I would love to see them live because I would like to see how the arc goes.

Yeah.

And also there's like four or five of them in the band.

Is that right?

And I'm curious about instrumentation live because there's a mega horn section.

But then I was reading a little bit about them, and it looks like at least a couple of them play horns of some sort.

Yeah.

It looks like from their website, they're all in various, like, music or conservatory programs.

Ah, okay.

That makes more sense in.

Because there's a lot of instrumentation and I wasn't able to find, like, full credits or anything, so I was trying to decide if they had, like, a bunch of buddies come in or what, but that would make more sense.

Oh, and it also explains why they would have pretty broad influences coming in.

With all of them.

Right.

And it seemed like it was sort of, like a casual thing, and now they're just sharing it, which they should.

Be doing kind of how Lake Street Dive got started.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

They were in music school at a conservatory, and they were literally, like, hanging out in their apartment slash dorms, just doing whatever.

And before they.

Really.

Before they became what they are now, so.

Huh.

Interesting.

I like this.

I'm excited to hear where they go.

And the front person's voice is lovely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like I said, I feel bad.

I think it's almost a Year ago now, I was like, I'm going to write about you and that'll happen.

They were not on my radar at all, which is unusual because they are definitely in my broader wheelhouse.

So North Engel is glad to, like, know about them and I'll pay more attention to what they're doing.

You always have artists where we have connected many years ago and also newer ones as well.

So what else have you been listening to or what else have you wanted to chat about that we haven't had a chance to talk about lately?

Well, thank you for that segue because next up, I wanted to talk about Micah Schnabel's recent album with his partner, Vanessa Jean Speckman.

Yay.

Which this goes way back.

Yeah, exactly.

The album is called the Great Degradation.

And I know they recently released like, an all acoustic version of the album, but I haven't had a chance to listen to it.

Yeah, I mean, I think this is kind of thing where if you listen to the song and you like it, you'll like the rest of the album, but also if you hate it, you will just not enjoy this album.

It's like a very specific sound.

Yes.

I think, like, so if you're not familiar, Micah was the lead singer of Two Cow Garage, which definitely one of my favorite bands.

And I'm sure they have songs about dead friends that I need to go back.

I bet they have whole records about them.

Yeah, whole records.

Yeah.

You know, I think, like, Micah has been very blunt and honest about a lot of the things he's grown up with as, like, a poor working class person than the Rust Belt.

Yeah.

How this shit, like, should not be romanticized, like, at all.

And, you know, he's still, like, struggling to make it, you know, or even just have any kind of stability after decades of being in music.

I would say that's the biggest theme on the album.

Nci, hey, very much gets into that, like, being an artist and trying to stick true to your values.

But how, like, if you know, you don't have, like, CIA support like Jackson Pollock did.

Yeah.

There's no way to, like, have that life without selling out in some way or another.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Micah Schnabel and Two Cow Garage going all the way back to the days of, like, Couch by Couch west is probably how we connected many years ago, I would imagine.

Certainly how I connected with Two Cow Garage.

Both artists, both Vanessa Jean Speckman, who I typically think of as visual art until there was that Call Me Rita, which I didn't even know about in the.

At the time I found it because I was looking for something else and it popped up and I was like, wait, I thought Vanessa Jean Speckman was a visual artist and I didn't even know.

Yeah.

So, like, I think since the Pandemic and since they were living with Frank Turner for a little while because they were touring with him and then, you know, everything was on lockdown.

But I think that might be around the time when she started like exploring music more and setting like her poetry tune music.

And that's led to Call Me Rita, where she's fronting a band that is like a little more rock oriented than this album.

But obviously the.

It's all the same crew.

And that's what I find interesting about it, is that, you know, if you like Two Cow Garage, you're going to like both of these other projects, but also you can very much see and hear the difference in who it.

Who's guiding the ship on the different ones.

Yeah, definitely.

And also like the sort of beat and spoken word influence that Maiko's been writing about for decades.

Very identifiable.

When you listen to it, you can tell exactly who this is.

This couldn't possibly be any other artist.

Yeah, I listened to the acoustic one, which is like spindle or bindle or something.

Anyway, it's on Bandcamp.

If you look up Micah Schnabel's stuff on Bandcamp, you'll find all of that stuff.

It was interesting because what I've always liked about their work is there's always some sort of sing along aspect somewhere in the performance.

And I've mostly seen them live and it's always the sort of thing where every single person there is 100% into it.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone at a Two Cow Garage slash Micah Schnabelhaus show that wasn't just like completely enmeshed.

Yeah, I think the last time I saw them was like, they played Micah.

Two cows on indefinite hiatus.

Right.

I don't know the story.

I haven't really been checking Facebook, which is where he and Shane are most active.

So I don't really know totally what's going on.

Yeah.

But they toured for like 15 years straight and Shane has a kid.

Right.

And life is, you know, like.

Yeah, I don't think it has to be anything bigger than that.

I would think there's more information there, but I know it's been a Very long time since they've made it down to New York, but they've been in like upstate.

Side note, I'm totally off Facebook now and so like, it's.

As much as I wanted to be totally off of Facebook, I am super out of the loop on a lot of things because there are still many, many, many of my friends and acquaintances in music who really only interact there.

And so while I don't miss providing the platform, my constant data, I do miss not getting that connection with people.

And so I've.

I've felt really out of the loop.

It's kind of weird.

Yeah, I mean, I don't really use it at all.

There's like a, like a group for social workers in New York City, so I'll pop in there from time to time.

Right.

But like, yeah, pretty much the only time I used it was just to like try to get in touch with high school and.

Right.

Well, that middle school people to.

For this news.

And also because his dad was sort of posting updates while he was still in the hospital.

Yeah, but, yeah, but like whatever.

I have Instagram and WhatsApp on my phone, so.

Right.

I do still have Instagram, which I am not great about using, but it exists.

But that actually is how I know this other musician that you wanted to chat about just kept popping up in my feed from.

From all different sources.

Yeah, totally.

Andrew, he's been making music for a long time, but he hasn't really been recording it.

And I imagine once again that like the Pandemic kind of threw a lot of stuff off.

But he's still on the label.

The label is definitely still pretty small.

But this upcoming album, American Rough, which will be out by the time this episode is out.

One of the best albums of the year.

Not even like period nice.

It's produced by H.C. mcIntyre from yay North Carolina.

Coming back.

Exactly.

Mount Mariah and her own incredible solo works.

The album itself still has that same kind of lush, immersive feel that like all of her records have.

And like Andrew, when he first came on the scene was like very slim, slender, pretty, like had like these nudie suits and was just always kind of like a crooner.

And then I kind of like lost track of him for a while and now he's got, like this big bushy mustache and, like the stubble has this kind of like leather daddy thing going while his voice is still, like, really, like, gorgeous.

But it's a beautiful contrast.

You know, not to harp on grief too much, but he and Patrick Haggerty of Lavender Country.

Yes, we're very close.

And so the song Lavender Cowboy is about Patrick and is really beautiful.

But at the same time, like, I listened to the record for the first time this week and it's just beautiful.

Like, there's this one song where he sings the word bong.

Those are like, amazing, you know, like crescendo of the song and it's so gorgeous on the word bong.

And like, that's kind of what we're getting.

That's what it is.

Right.

Just taking these little moments and finding, like, the beauty, the sublime beauty in everyday life.

And this song about Patrick is again, also about grief.

And the music video has a man who looks a lot like Patrick's partner, sort of like in shadow, and then another man who's sort of wearing the kind of outfit that Patrick wore.

Yeah.

Before his last tour.

We'll get into that.

And sort of making the same kind of like, movements and gestures he did while he was dancing.

So I actually can't really watch the video because it's give me a little bit of a panic attack.

That's wild.

It's, like, amazing.

And I think Patrick would have been totally fine with that because he loved being in the spotlight.

But it's just a beautiful video, beautiful song.

And for those of you who are not familiar, Lavender country is the first known, like, non parody queer country album.

And then the band was called Lavender Country.

I always like to introduce the title track as Lavender country by Lavender country on album.

Lavender Country Country.

That's right.

Yeah.

But I noticed as Patrick was spending more and more time with younger people, he had been growing his hair out wearing, like, more flowers.

At his last tour, he had like the sort of outfit with like a hat with a flower in it and an overall pair of overalls instead of like the whole cowboy stuff.

So, yeah, I don't know what that might have progressed into, but I think it was like, it's sort of beautiful connection with oneself.

Yeah, yeah.

So for Pride Month, I wanted to shout that out because I'll be writing an essay.

The song out in an essay I will be writing tomorrow for no Depression.

I want to track, like, how this album, which is so like, peaceful and serene and Paisley Fields latest album.

Are you mad at me?

Which is just like, so angry in, like, all the right ways.

How they're both, like, you know, honoring Patrick's legacy in different ways.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Paisley.

I love Paisley.

Yeah.

And that new album is also one of the best albums of the year.

Also a extremely musically talented person with a very recognizable vocal as well.

You're mentioning something about the crescendo in the word bong on the other song from Andrew Sa.

And there is also a slight bit of like the vibrato in this song in a good way.

Not in the like singer, but like just enough to really give it some timbre.

And I was just like, I don't know why this is so appealing to me and that.

That specific tiny little phrasing, but just I kept going back to that part of the song.

It's just really engaging and I'm.

I'm glad to get to see that this full record will be available for everyone.

I actually didn't know that HC McIntyre was producing records until I read a little bit about this one and turns out, like, call me Scoop.

That's not new.

Yeah, I didn't know because again, I'm also out of the loop.

So if it's not in my inbox and then I also change my email address so that PR people can find me, I'm not reading about it.

It's like, U10 can send me music.

Otherwise, that's it.

Sorry.

I also let my former professional contact disappear on purpose.

And yeah, it's been great not to be getting 10,000 terrible AI generated PR pitches every day.

Oh, God, I hadn't even thought about that.

But I'm sure that is happening.

They are so bad.

They are so, so, so bad.

To the point where, like, I want to contact the artists and say, stop giving this person your money.

Like, don't, don't do this.

This is not benefiting you in any way.

Yeah, there have been a few times where, like, publicists have been out of pocket.

I'm like, I wish the artist knew that you were doing this.

Right.

Yeah.

Do you.

Do you know where your money is going?

That's a whole separate issue that I'm sure both you and I could wax poetic about.

Else have you had going on or what do you have coming up?

I mean, it's like everything is coming up with the new channel on Sirius XM and then the.

You are a recurring writer for no Depression and those pieces often are.

If you're not super engaged in social media or with the no Depression outlet, they are very good about amplifying that through Instagram and acknowledging who their authors are.

Which is great because not every outlet does that.

Right.

And then the ramping up subscriptions with Rainbow Rodeo and telling us you're bringing back the podcast.

I mean like you have 8,000 things going on.

I know.

I will also be watching a Kickstarter for the comic book I've been neglecting.

Wait, what?

Yeah, so I'm very slowly writing.

It's going to be an eight issue comic book series.

So this is four.

Just like I wanted to create a project when I left teaching.

Yeah.

Because I suddenly had time to like be a person.

So I started writing comic book.

It's just been very slow but steady.

Once again, like the artist who has been working on it, Angela Boyle, has been very generous with the rate she's offering to do the art.

And she's like a really cool creative character.

She's been doing a lot of very cool projects and it's been exciting over the years to watch like her career expand.

The story is non linear, so there's flashbacks, there's flash forwards.

The idea was to like, how do you tell a story through the lens of a culture that does not view time in a linear fashion?

And then the story itself is about a young woman who gets exiled from her tribe of pacifists.

I read a lot of Red Wall growing up.

You know, they're always.

They have like these powers that are grant to them from their gods, but they're only supposed to be used in self defense.

But she, she was always kind of like anxious about proving herself and sort of insecure in that wanting to be the best of the, you know, the defenders.

And so she kind of goes a little nuts with it.

So she gets exiled and it's sort of about finding yourself again.

And also like when you have that rejection, how it can still reverberate afterwards.

It's a different kind of superhero.

Yeah.

And so every chapter so far is about her trying to like find her place and learning how to actually do that.

Fascinating.

Not autobiographical at all or anything.

So I've had like an outline sort of planned out and that I kind of just like don't really think about it.

And then I have like one month where I sit down and actually write the script.

I like to do it during the high holidays for the Jewish New Year because it's like kind of a reflective time anyway.

But then also like, well, for a while I wasn't going to temple, but I would take the days off and like use that to go Sit in a cafe and write.

But now that I've found a group of people who sort of align with my values more than like a mainstream synagogue, shall we say?

I will be attending more services.

So I just need to like, actually take real time off to work on it.

But yeah, so Kickstarter for Chapter 4 should be right running.

Once you hear this, I was gonna.

Say, how do we find that?

You can go to my social medias.

I'll be promoting it.

Yeah.

There's no website yet because basically, again, I was just about to get the Kickstarter going and then, you know, life happened.

I'm tired just hearing everything you have going on in the next two weeks, I'm tired too.

I don't know, like, when to stop, but it's also.

That's also something I'm figuring out.

But yeah, that's.

That's part of it is like, especially with like, what is essentially like a gig life.

And, you know, it's like when things are going, you gotta keep them going.

I mean, maybe you don't have to, but that's the feeling.

Yeah.

To be honest, I was ready to like, pack Rainbow Rodeo in or at least try to figure out a way to do it.

Like, not daily.

But I don't know, I clicked.

I think I just realized I could stop feeling guilty about what I wasn't doing and just focus what I was doing.

That's what sort of like, has brought me back to wanting to do it, because I do enjoy it.

But, you know, I think things in, like, my real life is how I think about it will start to be requiring more of me.

And then I'll have that.

I'll make those decisions when I get there.

But for now, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing.

Totally, totally, totally get that.

Yeah.

I had, you know, I had a creative passion project for many, many years that was very successful for a period of time.

And I very happily rode that wave as long as I wanted to.

And then one day I literally just woke up and was like, I am super burnt out and I don't know what I want this to look like.

And that's hard when things went well.

It's a lot easier when it was a disaster.

Yeah.

And I mean, like, you know, this is not how I make, like, put food on the table and it never has been.

So there's no, like, need for it to be successful or not.

I could just stop doing, like, I didn't feel a thing once I stopped doing Adobe and Teardrops Right.

So.

Which is how I knew it was time.

But I think I would feel guilty not doing Rainbow Rodeo.

But on the other hand, if there's.

With SiriusXM and stuff like that, there are other opportunities to share the music with a bigger audience, so.

Exactly.

And that may look different as time goes on.

On.

Which is a good thing.

Yeah.

And then the comic is like, if I can just get enough people to like, meet the minimum goal for the Kickstarter, that.

That's fine with me.

Yeah, that's.

I haven't really been doing much to promote it or like send it out to comic shops or anything like that because I don't even know where to begin with that.

And the same with like the physical zine for Rainbow Rodeo.

If the DM wasn't storing it along with their T shirts and fulfilling the orders when they fulfilled their merch orders, like, I would have stopped by that.

I mean, I deemed the artist.

I didn't realize that.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it's very generous of them to do that.

That's last call at Dive Bar Music Club.

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