Remembering Dolly Parton and Revisiting the Camp Classic “9 to 5”

Hosts Beck and Dash return from a break to mourn the Queerly Beloved, Dearly Departed Dolly Parton. They discuss Dolly Parton’s death at 80, public reactions, her collaborations, and her written works, including the Imagination Library’s 300 million books and six published books, plus her community-minded philanthropy and queer allyship (including her transgender chauffeur and her comments about drag). The episode centers on the 1980 film “9 to 5,” its camp aesthetics, critical reception, workplace sexism and harassment, and the plot in which three women kidnap their boss and improve office conditions (daycare, flex schedules, part-time work, and equal pay). Dash performs John Prine’s “Paradise,” Beck shares a wee Noun of Appalachian Interest, on Mary Lou Retton, and they plan to watch “The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas” next because this Dolly Party stops for no one.

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00:00 Catch Up

01:22 Birthday Gift Anxiety Bookshelf

02:56 YA Reads and Hunger Games Revival

04:25 Carnitas Plans and Paycheck Chaos

06:39 Dolly Parton Legacy and Books

15:33 Queer Icon and Allyship

18:10 Why 9 to 5 Still Hits

21:50 Cult Classic and Camp Aesthetic

26:24 Meet the Characters and Office Politics

34:34 Harassment Then vs Now

38:42 Bar Night Pot Scene and Murder Fantasies

43:07 Bonding Against Patriarchy

44:49 Dolly Star Power

45:45 Iconic Credits Montage

46:28 Songwriting Deep Dive

47:23 Act Two Chaos

51:17 Running The Office

54:55 Boss Gets Promoted

55:54 Outro Cards Debate

57:33 Camp And Film Theory

59:19 Dora Lee And Gaze

01:05:47 Costumes And Aesthetics

01:06:59 Sponsor Song Break

01:08:15 Paradise

01:13:08 Sequel Rumors

01:19:55 Dolly Parton Day Plans

01:22:18 Wrap Up And Next Episode

Welcome to Queer Next, the podcast that puts the

2

Yee Hall in y'all means hall.

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I'm your host, Beck,

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Dash: and I'm your host.

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Dash.

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Welcome to today's episode.

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See how long the batteries on all

of my various things last here

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Beck: Well, how have you been?

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Dash: I, I am, I don't know.

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Not, it's not thriving, but I'm not,

like, falling apart, so I'll take it.

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It's just, like, trying to,

to hoe that middle road.

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Beck: Just working for the man

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Dash: Nine to five.

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Oh, man, we took a…

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Some shit has happened since we

decided to take our, our break, and I

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actually can't really remember how…

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It's, we s- it was two weeks, but

I, it feels like longer, and I can't

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remember exactly when we recorded last

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But

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Beck: started and school

started August 24th

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Dash: It was the week before, I think.

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Beck: Yeah

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Dash: that would've been three…

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Yeah.

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Anyway, hello everybody.

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We hope that whatever may have happened

to you in the la- since the last time

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we got to hang out has been tolerable,

s- hopefully some good things.

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Beck: W

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Dash: yeah, you had a birthday.

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Happy birthday.

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You, you didn't get a long weekend

for it this year, so that's tragic

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Beck: it's a rare, it's a rare exception

that I don't get my long weekend.

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But I

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Dash: Yeah.

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Beck: something very cool for my birthday.

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Let me show you

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Dash: All right,

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Beck: All right, so it's this little case.

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You can see how thick and how big it is.

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Dash: Yehaw

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Beck: are these little books.

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The little

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Dash: Oh.

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Beck: a whole big baggie full of them.

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Dash: Whoa

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Beck: They're little, tiny…

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Yeah, the little book.

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Little,

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Dash: What are they made out of?

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Beck: wood

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Dash: Okay

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Beck: um

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Dash: oh, they're actual little books

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Beck: Yeah.

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See they're like tiny

little books the covers

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Dash: they have titles

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Beck: Uh-huh.

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Yeah, they have like real titles.

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Carrie.

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A Harry Potter book right there.

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and it's called an anxiety bookshelf,

and you are s- when you, you're

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supposed to organize them and

it's kinda like a puzzle, right?

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And then when you get done with it

and you get stressed out, you shake

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it and take all the books out, and

then you reorganize them, and it's a

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stress relief thing with, with books.

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'Cause I did it by color

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Dash: I see that.

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Beck: See, I started with…

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Yeah, I started with red,

and there's a lot of black.

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There's

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Dash: Yehaw

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Beck: yeah, I thought this

was such a cool little thing

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Dash: That's awesome.

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I love it

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Are they, are there all books th-

Are they all books you've read?

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Beck: Oh, no, no.

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But I've read a lot of 'em.

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Dash: Yeah

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Beck: Like Twilight is in here.

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Dash: I read the first one anyway

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Beck: Oh, I read all…

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I, I read with my niece.

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We started with the Harry Potter

books, and then we read um, the, oh,

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To Kill a Mockingbird and Hunger Games.

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We read The Hunger Games, and we

read, Twilight, the whole series.

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So I was, I was all up on my, on young

adult literature there for a few years

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Dash: Uh, yeah.

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I, I read the Harry Potters, and

then I read the Percy Jacksons

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Beck: I didn't read those.

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Dash: And The Hunger Games, I read those.

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I think

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Beck: into 'em.

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Yeah.

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Have you read the newest Hunger

Games, like the new installments?

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There've been a couple of new ones

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Dash: No.

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You know, I asked just as a, a sort of

icebreaker get to know you first week

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assignment thing, I asked the students

to, like, write about the last book they

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read or the last thing they had read.

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I was like, "It could be…

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If it's an instruction manual, I just want

you to tell me, you know, what it was."

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And quite a few of them, I guess, are

reading those Hunger Games again, like

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they've come back around, and it's

maybe because there's a new installment.

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And maybe a new movie, right?

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Beck: Uh, the mo- I don't know

if there's a new one coming out.

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There was a new one about

a year and a half ago.

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Dash: S-

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Beck: of

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Dash: right.

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Some…

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Beck: or something like that

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Dash: Right.

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the Choo Choo and the Chimichanga

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Beck: Yeah.

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chimichanga.

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Dash: Yehaw

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Beck: some salsa.

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Let's have salsa later.

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All right.

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Jana's

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Dash: Hi, Shaney

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Beck: Hi, Shanny.

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She, she waved

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Dash: Hmm.

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I found…

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So you know, like meat is normally

super expensive at the market here,

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but also because they don't carry

anything except for good shit, right?

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Like y- it's only like g- really

high q- quality cuts of beef,

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and I'm like, " I'm a poor.

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I- give me the shitty stu- I know

how to d- I know how to fix a

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shitty cut of meat," you know?

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But they also never carry

pork, and you can…

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Like pork is a lot more like uh…

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What's the word for like

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Beck: Forgiving?

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Dash: a lot of th- yeah, you

can do a lot of things with it

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Beck: Versatile

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Dash: Yeah, that's it.

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And at a lower price point

and, but they never have it.

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But I was over there yesterday

and I was just kind of, you know,

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looking by and they had a, a pretty

decent size, like j- uh, like a

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pork butt, a rump roast for like $6.

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And I was like, "Oh, okay.

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Hell yeah."

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So I'm gonna make some carnitas

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Beck: Nice

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Dash: Probably tonight

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Beck: Nice.

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There's a

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called Carlos de, de Cocina, C-

Cocina de Carlos, or however you

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would say that, in my little town,

and we've recently discovered them.

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They're expensive, but they are good.

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are so good

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Dash: Allegedly we got paid today.

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I, like, got my first paycheck, but

I didn't set up my direct deposit

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in time apparently, so I guess

they're gonna mail me a check.

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Beck: Wow

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Dash: So it's, it's not gonna

get to me is what's gonna happen,

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because I don't have a mailbox.

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I use a PO box, and they didn't fucking

ask me if my address address is my mailing

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address, and I, so I, I gu- guarantee

you they have sent it into the ether.

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But anyway, allegedly I'm getting paid

now, and so I'm, I'm gonna start looking

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for, like, fun restaurants over in the

town my new job is in, ' cause there's,

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like, Somali food over there Lebanese I

think Indonesian food, Ethiopian food.

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And I only know this because to do

any kind of cultural programming at

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Morris, we had to drive over there to,

to get some food and bring to campus.

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Oh, but a ti- oh, God.

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A, a piece of the world is gone now.

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We…

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Beck: yeah

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Dash: Since we last talked.

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I don't know.

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I, I was thinking about the fact that

it happened while we were kind of on,

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on vacation I feel like I've ha- I've

gotten to process a little bit, but also,

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like, I'm only scratching the surface.

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obviously I'm talking about Dolly

Parton passed away two weeks

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ago now, I think, maybe a week

and a half-ish, at the age of 80

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People are reacting in, in kind

of all kinds of interesting ways.

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Like online, uh, folks are

like, people who've never…

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Like people who've kind of surprised

me are like in hysterics over,

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I'm like, "What did, what do…"

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But you know, it was, it's kind of a thing

that's like anybody could like Dolly.

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It's, she, I think she's that principle

that we were talking about of like

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it's possible to make something

that is, that could be for anybody

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and s- that's kinda what she was

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Beck: loved her.

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She made stuff for older

people, she made stuff for

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Dash: Yehaw

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Beck: Like, she was universal

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Dash: Just last year she did a duet

with, um, Sabrina Carpenter, you know,

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the, her Please Please Please song?

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They, they did a cover together,

and, and that's something that Dolly

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in her, like, her form of artistry,

her generation, and her genre i-

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of artists, duets was a big deal.

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Like country and western is

a lot to d- a lot of duets.

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And, you know, pop music doesn't

do a ton of that anymore.

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But the fact that she was still…

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'Cause I think she did one with

Orville Peck as well, Dolly, I mean.

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But anyway, I was listening to her version

with Sabrina Carpenter, and there's

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the swear word in Sabrina's version.

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She says motherfucker, and

Dolly made her change it.

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They did their…

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It was, I mean, it's something

that still made sense.

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It was just like she said,

"Don't embarrass me" like the

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others instead of motherfucker.

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But I was just like everybody, if,

if Dolly says it, you're gonna do it.

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Beck: Right

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Dash: wouldn't you, you know?

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Beck: I read a quote that she left.

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She said that she hopes in 100

years she's remembered for the

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books and not the looks, and I think

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Dash: Yehaw

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Beck: Yeah

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Dash: Talking about her

books, how many did she write?

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There were a few in the genre of what we

would call creative nonfiction or memoir

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Cause of death.

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No, I don't, I mean, I

don't want that, thank you.

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Not Imagination Library,

although that is very cool

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Beck: 300 million books.

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Dash: Isn't that fucking crazy?

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Beck: in the hands of kids.

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Yeah.

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Dash: Okay, so she wrote six So

sh- her first one was in '94.

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Interesting.

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Uh, w- it, which was kind of a memoir.

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It was called Dolly: My Life

and Other Unfinished Business.

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The next one was in 2012, Dream More,

inspirational self-improvement book.

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I'm gonna get that.

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Oh, sh- it's an, it's, it's expanding

on a commencement speech she gave at UT

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Beck: Wow

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Dash: She made a children's

book about Billy the Kid.

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She made a cookbook

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And then

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Beck: love to get that

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Dash: It's called Good Lookin' Cookin'.

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She and her sister made it together

about other family recipes.

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Hell yeah.

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Let's, uh, let's get…

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Because that's on Goodreads, so we can at

least get a couple pages out of it, make,

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like, maybe make something for next time.

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Beck: her cup of recipe that from, uh,

Steel Magnolias that's been going around?

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Dash: No.

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Beck: It's a cup of flour, a cup of

sugar, and a cup of fruit salad with

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the liquid, and you mix that together

and bake it, put it over, like, ice

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cream, and it's a little cobbler

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Dash: Yeah, I was about to say it

probably comes out real kind of wet.

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She did one about the stories of her

lyrics, so Dolly Parton's storyteller

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or Songteller: My Life in Lyrics.

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Uh, there's a visual memoir showcasing

her iconic fashion evolution called

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Behind the Seams: My Life in Rhinestones,

and she wrote a thriller With James

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Patterson, which doesn't really count,

but also it does count 'cause it's Dolly

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But the one, the ones that are kind

of about her life, there's all kinds

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of little things in there that tell

us who she is, because a lot of people

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are going to great lengths to try

to make her fit into their story.

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You know?

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For, uh, an example is fucking Donald

Trump posting that AI picture of her on

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his arm as if she turned him down half

a dozen times to come to the White House

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Beck: Right.

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Yeah

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Dash: And I don't know, she may have

turned down every president because

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she didn't want to whatever, but only

he would do some bullshit like this

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And there's, you know, people kind of

posted online about how everybody should

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be more like Dolly and not like those

other woke bitches or stuff, and it's

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like you don't know shit about shit.

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Like, Dolly may have been…

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Her, her media personality may have

seemed apolitical to somebody who

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can't read with any level of nuance,

but her actions and the company she

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kept, it, it was meticulous in terms

of, like, only, only do good, you know?

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Beck: She reinvested a lot of the money

that she made off of Whitney Houston into

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Black neighborhoods and Black communities.

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Like,

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Dash: specifically schools.

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Beck: it.

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Dash: Mm-hmm Yeah.

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I mean, 'cause that, that

song, Whitney Houston made her

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rich, and she never forgot it.

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Beck: Yeah.

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Dash: any…

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And, and you can look…

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There's something else that

Dolly did, like her celebrity,

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a way that she sort of…

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She used it for, you know, what it

was, which was her career, but she

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also, you could see how she was

utilizing it from a, a community-minded

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standpoint because she was always

gracious in accepting invitations

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to do bizarre things, you know?

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She appeared via Zoom on a bunch of

like talk shows and things during the

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pandemic because she rec- she recognized

that people were beginning to consume

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a lot more, like say reality show.

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Um, an example I'm thinking of is this

was when a lot of more versions of that,

290

uh, Great British Bake Off, the, the,

that kind of show came about was the

291

pandemic, and the one called The Pottery

Throw Down, do you remember her episode?

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Beck: Uh-huh.

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K- No

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Dash: It was, it's like season three,

it's later in the, the seasons.

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But they were sculpting busts

of people, and they chose her.

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And it, the, the potters were all…

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They had to stay there because it was,

um, lockdown, so they were lonely, right?

298

They couldn't see their

families and things.

299

And so they, of course they had to get her

permission to use her likeness for this.

300

And then all of a sudden it shows,

there's this little scene where

301

they're all in this house that

they're staying in together during the

302

filming of this, and she appears on

the TV screen and is talking to them.

303

Like, she's making jokes.

304

She's like, "I hope you

brought a lot of clay.

305

You're gonna need it."

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She's like making jokes about her boobs

and stuff, just trying to make 'em laugh.

307

And it's like, I know d- for

sure that that was her idea.

308

'Cause they, they was like,

they licensed a handful of

309

likenesses of people for that.

310

She's the only one that,

that wanted to talk to them

311

Beck: Right?

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Dash: We just won't have

another one like her.

313

but I hope, and what I don't, I don't

want somebody to hear me say we won't

314

have another one like Dolly, and we,

we certainly won't have another Dolly,

315

and think like we should all give up.

316

That we should, we should

aspire to be Dolly.

317

cause if you fall short of that, which

we literally all would, you know.

318

You re- it's like this, that like

stupid inspiration porn thing,

319

like shoot for the moon and you'll

land among the stars or something.

320

I'm cutting that out.

321

I can't…

322

See, I can't be this earnest.

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This is why we needed a break.

324

And I don't think…

325

'Cause I've also done, like, what

would she be wanting from us?

326

So one thing is, like, a couple of

people, especially here, because

327

it happened after I'd started

this job, and I was really upset.

328

You know?

329

I was like, "God, I'm

taking this really hard."

330

Like, I couldn't be around

people for a couple days.

331

I didn't wanna talk to anybody.

332

And, of s- one person asked why do

I care so much, which you shouldn't,

333

you shouldn't ask somebody that.

334

But it's a fair question, I guess.

335

Like, why…

336

Plenty of people die, plenty

of celebrities have died,

337

but what is it about her?

338

I think anybody could have their own

answer for that, but for me, I think there

339

was, there's a selfishness to it of, like,

my whole life, one celebrity, one person

340

who made it into the pop culture, like

the life and the lifeblood of popular

341

culture, has sounded like me, has sounded

like the people that talk where I'm from.

342

You know?

343

There's plenty of hillbillies,

people with various accents and

344

stuff, but only one has ever had

it and it's her, and, and it's gone

345

And then just the kind

of celebrity she was.

346

And also what she meant to probably what

we're gonna talk about a lot today, which

347

is queer and camp culture, how she became

348

Beck: Mm-hmm.

349

Dash: an icon of a certain

form of cultural performance

350

Beck: Did you know she once lost a Dolly

Parton lookalike contest to a drag queen?

351

Dash: I did.

352

Well, and talking about her

memoirs, this is where you learn

353

a lot of this stuff about her.

354

S- uh, people are, and

people are doing that now.

355

They're kind of like

revisiting them and stuff.

356

She had…

357

So one of her limo drivers for

30 years was a transgender man.

358

And the, in the, I think it was

the mid-'80s or '90s or something

359

like that, a tabloid found out

about it, and they tried to use it,

360

uh, to fa- manufacture a scandal.

361

But I don't know if it's that

nobody cared or if Dolly somehow

362

was just like, "You can try, but

I don't recommend it," you know?

363

Beck: Right

364

Dash: that wasn't a secret, you know?

365

Like, that, she wrote it in her

book too, so she wasn't like,

366

nobody was trying to squash this.

367

It really was that she was so

fucking unbothered about the fact

368

that she was close with and employed

a transgender person that nobody

369

could do anything with it, you know?

370

Like, she didn't give anybody

any power over that information,

371

'cause she was just like, "And?"

372

Beck: Which is how it

should be, but it rarely is

373

Dash: It's gotten

374

Beck: I agree

375

Dash: to a point now where people

kinda, y- people are kind of

376

forced to grandstand, you know?

377

Like, they kind of m- make you do that.

378

And it, it must be hard for somebody who

wants to be an ally and, and like not feel

379

that pressure to constantly be like, " Uh,

you're safe with me," you know, signal

380

every way you can that, and I don't know.

381

That, that would be tough, 'cause I

feel that pressure when, especially

382

when it came to like, find a way to

signal to people of color that they

383

were safe with me, and ultimately I'm

like, they just have to divine that

384

for themselves based on my actions.

385

Like, there's no shortcut

386

Beck: That's exactly right

387

Dash: But yeah, total fucking queer ally.

388

And she said in one of her memoirs,

like, if she was to have been born

389

a boy, she would be a drag queen.

390

She was like, "If I was, if I was

born a boy, I would be a drag queen."

391

And kinda what she was getting at is

like, I don't know if I would get,

392

what she called a sex change operation.

393

But that's where she said, like,

"Everything I learned about

394

that, I learned from my friend

Jason," which was her chauffeur

395

Beck: Right?

396

Dash: How did…

397

Okay, so do you remember the first time

you became aware of her as a, as an

398

entity, a celebrity, as her existence?

399

Beck: I remember knowing she

had big boobs when I was a

400

Dash: Right.

401

Beck: and that's pretty

much all I knew about her

402

Dash: Yeah ' Cause, uh, we, we thought

we would talk about the film 9 to

403

5 today, which is its own thing.

404

That, that movie is like a, I don't

know, a watershed moment in a lot of…

405

It's a just a huge cultural moment, and

it feels still, it feels so relevant.

406

It came out in 1980

407

Beck: Mm-hmm.

408

Dash: The things that they

were problematizing in that

409

movie haven't gone anywhere.

410

Beck: Yeah.

411

Dash: We just fully didn't

do anything about them

412

Beck: They were technically still in

the second wave of feminism when that

413

movie came out, and we are still,

still dealing with the, the, those

414

same problems because they just evolve.

415

We found out it's really hard to

solve some problems, you know?

416

Some things should already be solved,

like the daycare problem, that

417

should've been solved a long time ago.

418

We almost had universal daycare coverage

in the United States in the '70s, but we

419

blew it because of conservative policies.

420

Yeah, I think that, I think the

movie was, there was a lot of things

421

that were really ahead of its time.

422

Like the, uh, well, I'll wait till

talk about, you know, the, the specific

423

scenes, but there were things that

surprised me in that movie for sure.

424

It had been a very, very, very

long time since I had seen it

425

Dash: Well, and I have only seen it the

one time, and I was thinking about it

426

because of like what I like to research

is cult camp movies, that kind of thing.

427

Like, I love a kind of film criticism

that views the audience's lens as part

428

of the creative process of the film.

429

But I, I didn't ever even want to see

the movie because I clo- I associated

430

it so closely with femininity.

431

And I- a lot of things that I had,

that were Dolly in particular, like

432

everything that was, like, associated

with this, like, hyperfe- hyperfemininity,

433

I had convinced myself that I was

not g- that I was gonna hate it.

434

I was never gonna participate in it.

435

And I began to understand the role of

things like Nine to Five through the

436

way that somebody convinced me to watch

it, which was I was at City Tap there

437

in Bowling Green, which was, It was

very, that was like a very queer bar

438

surprisingly, just because of who works

there and, and then who hung out there.

439

So I was, we were out in the alley

behind City Tap to smoke, and I

440

mentioned I had never seen it.

441

This was after Claire's

defense of her dissertation.

442

And a drag queen that we were

friends with, oh, that you know.

443

Remember Brock?

444

It was Brock that was doing this, and then

Ted, the big, the, the bartender there at

445

City Tap that I told you you would like.

446

The three of them begin to just

spur of the moment, they didn't,

447

nobody spoke about them doing this.

448

They start to reenact

the opening of the movie.

449

So, like, they start grabbing shawls

and throwing them like they're in,

450

like they're late to be out the door,

and they're, like, clip-clopping their

451

heels, like they're running really fast.

452

It, g- like just a total gay

frenzy going on in this alleyway.

453

Th- and s- they're like, "Yeah,

this," so that's just the

454

opening two minutes or something.

455

And then they're like, "Imagine

Dolly Parton is singing

456

while all that's going on."

457

I was like, "Okay, I get it now."

458

I really needed somebody to help

that, like, the queerness of it

459

and the campiness of it make sense.

460

And so I'm pretty sure I went

home and watched it that night.

461

Beck: It was easy to find, that's for sure

462

Dash: Yeah, unlike another

film we talked about maybe…

463

That's interesting, right?

464

Like, the which things are, are

being chosen to, to be remembered.

465

so that was another thought we had

is, like, we're gonna talk about

466

9 to 5 because it's accessible,

and everybody likes it for

467

the most part, still relevant.

468

But she actually had several other films.

469

9 to 5 was her, her breakout role.

470

This was her first actual, her

first job, acting job ever,

471

and so she, she stole the show.

472

The critics, every critic I could

find did not like the movie.

473

It was

474

Beck: Oh,

475

Dash: not…

476

Yeah, it was not successful

when it came out.

477

That's, that's why it's

a cult classic now.

478

I read a, a list of

all the biggies, right?

479

Like, all, every, um, cis white

guy who wrote for Vanity and,

480

uh, The Village Voice and…

481

No, not The Village Voice.

482

It, they, I'm s- they may

have liked it, I don't know.

483

But, like, Siskel and

Ebert all those folks.

484

Here, I saved it.

485

All they could talk about was not liking

the movie, but Dolly Parton was good

486

Like, okay,

487

Beck: just

488

Dash: so you liked…

489

I, I believe that that is always,

that is often an element in what

490

creates a, a cult classic, of

something being ahead of its time.

491

But you know, movies

don't really have time.

492

Movies, like they can, they can…

493

W- what I think what you meant was like

it, it didn't, it missed its audience

494

because of when and where it, it came out.

495

But you know, sometimes people

will talk about something like,

496

"Oh, that didn't age well."

497

Movies don't age.

498

We age.

499

But

500

Beck: Right

501

Dash: these, The reason I think that

this movie didn't find its audience

502

with these critics is because this

movie wasn't made for those people.

503

This movie was made by and for gay dudes

and women, largely white women, right?

504

So really kind of, kind

of a second wave feminism.

505

The, um, director was a gay man who also

directed Best Little Whorehouse in Texas

506

I think that there was, um, an aesthetic

to the movie that, th- that was lost

507

on these critics that has since been

uncovered and appreciated by people with

508

different lenses on what is funny and

what is ridiculous and what is, what

509

is meaningful when, when put on screen.

510

You know what I mean?

511

Trying to find these.

512

Here it is

513

But there's this one dude who really

514

Oh yeah, this guy for the Los

Angeles Times, he wrote, " The film

515

appears to be an audience pleaser

that never misses an intended laugh.

516

However, it strays so far from reality,"

which is apparently what we need from

517

films, "for so long that it threatens

to become mired in overly complicated

518

silliness and lose sight of the serious."

519

Maybe that's not what they w-

like, it's a comedy, right?

520

And satire isn't,

521

Beck: Right

522

Dash: I, you know, I don't know.

523

But the, but this was, he was

not the only one that said this.

524

Like, this other dude from Newsweek,

he's like, "It's a disappointment.

525

It's not wild or dark

enough to qualify as farce.

526

It's too fanciful and silly

to succeed as satire."

527

These are straight people who

don't know what the fuck, they

528

don't understand camp aesthetic.

529

Beck: Right.

530

Dash: They don't understand.

531

They don't come from a history of needing

to signify yourself in coded ways,

532

of needing to soften the blow of any

criticism of power to save your own skin.

533

it was people who later came to, like,

really appreciate the film, I think,

534

that knew how, that knew that experience

for in- for instance, the way Dora Lee

535

has to, consistently rebuff, what is,

Hart- Hart's sexual advances on the

536

clock in a way that doesn't actually

hurt him, you know, in a way that

537

doesn't jeopardize her job and stuff.

538

Beck: Right?

539

Dash: dudes, these, these guides, these,

like, uh, critics who write for the LA

540

Times and Newsweek and who the fuck ever,

these people who author our opinions

541

on art, they don't have to do that.

542

They don't have to worry about how

their criticisms are, are received.

543

Just wanted to put that out there.

544

I, I, 'cause I always hate that

whenever somebody's like, "Well,

545

the, the film was panned."

546

It's worth knowing, but

also they were wrong

547

However, uh, criticisms of

the plot are kind of valid.

548

It got weird.

549

to me the plot is like,

especially for something like

550

this, I don't care, you know?

551

They, it's like often the my

la- my last, um, metric for

552

whether I like a movie or not.

553

Like, is the plot believable?

554

That's not why I came here.

555

I didn't come here because I need

to see real life accurately pasted,

556

copy and pasted onto a canvas.

557

But yeah, it is kind of wacky.

558

I think we could probably

summarize it pretty quickly

559

Beck: Willie Tomlin and I share a birthday

560

Dash: Cool.

561

let's talk about the, folks in the movie.

562

So we've got Lily Tomlin, Jane Fonda,

Dolly of course, Dabney Coleman, who I

563

don't think gets enough credit for what

he really did with, like, someone…

564

With his, like, acty- acting and

comedy abilities and his identities.

565

Like, he was a conventionally

attractive cis white dude, and he

566

always played the butt of the, the

villain or, or the bumbling fool or

567

the butt of whatever joke, you know?

568

He, like, they, it, they, he was

in three films that year where he

569

played basically that same character.

570

Beck: Right

571

Dash: and he did all his own stunts.

572

Like, that was really him

hanging from that sex swing

573

How long is this movie?

574

Beck: It was like an hour

and 40 minutes, I think

575

Dash: It was, it was longish

for, for that time period.

576

Yeah, you're exactly right I mean, they…

577

So one of the things I read about,

like, production was that a goal

578

of Higgins, the director, was to

make sure each of these characters

579

actually becomes fully fleshed out.

580

Each of them gets to be, to

fully realize on screen so that

581

we care what happens to them.

582

And so the pacing of the movie is

really cons- you can see that, you know?

583

The, the, the fact that we have those

three full imaginary cinematic arcs of

584

how they, each of them imagines killing

him, yeah, that added up a lot of runtime.

585

Beck: Yeah.

586

But it though, you know?

587

Dash: Uh, and it's worth knowing,

and if you, if, I mean, what better

588

way to find out about somebody than

getting an extended look at how they

589

would imagine killing somebody or

killing the person that, that they

590

collect- they, like, all hate together

591

The thing, I think the best part…

592

So this, it opens up, these all,

these people all work in an office

593

setting, generic office such and such.

594

And Dolly plays a character named Doralee.

595

The, the char- So this character

was written for her, I believe.

596

Like, w- at the time, the

movie, they were creating it.

597

So first of all, this was Jane Fonda's

first film under her own production

598

company, and she orig- originally created

the movie as a, like, hard-hitting,

599

you know, drama, and then realized

that's, that doesn't really work.

600

It's not, it's a bit much which I think

is interesting to talk about because she

601

also spoke about intentionally pulling

punches because she didn't wanna seem

602

too, like, lefty woe feminist, you know?

603

And I'm curious about that.

604

Like, but this character was,

was written with Dolly in mind,

605

so that's, that's interesting.

606

Like, that already tells us what Dolly

meant to the folks creating the film

607

and how she worked on screen for people.

608

I'm try- really trying to imagine what it

609

as somebody who'd never seen Dolly before.

610

'Cause she was a singer, but

nobody'd seen her before.

611

No normie had seen Dolly Parton before.

612

Like, what did she look like up there?

613

Beck: I think that was around the time

that we started getting like late night,

614

like The Tonight Show was a big deal

with Johnny Carson and stuff like that.

615

So for the first time, we really did start

to see celebrities you know, in color,

616

live and in color, uh, around those years.

617

So I think everybody was

discovering Dolly, for sure

618

Dash: That's a good point.

619

She wasn't, like, a

complete unknown to them.

620

They would just…

621

And they probably would have seen that

she was comedic and could be witty

622

because she was on the Opry and all that

623

Beck: Yeah Have you heard

her song Dragonette?

624

Dash: Drag a net

625

Beck: it.

626

It's cute.

627

Yeah.

628

It's cute

629

Dash: I was, I was listening

to a lot of her stuff.

630

It's funny, like the way that

you, you do things that you didn't

631

do when the person was alive.

632

I couldn't tell you the last time

I just sat down and went like, "I

633

wanna listen to Dolly Parton songs."

634

And yet now…

635

But she did, kinda like what we

were talking about earlier, she

636

did a little bit of everything.

637

She, you know, there was a collab y-

you could al- you could almost, um,

638

choose a person out of a hat and she

has collabed with them in some way.

639

It's really interesting

640

But these, so it's this, uh, workplace

is this one character, this one dude,

641

Hart, I don't remember his first name,

starts with an F because Lily Tomlin

642

makes the joke that his name is Fart.

643

Played by Dabney Coleman.

644

Franklin, right?

645

And he, um, he's just, like,

sort of generic, not very

646

competent Peter Principal dude.

647

He's been promoted to a manager position.

648

Lily Tomlin's character trai- trained him.

649

Her name, her character's name was Violet,

and Jane Fonda's character is Judy.

650

And so the setup immediately is that,

milquetoast white dudes are getting

651

promoted up the corporate ladder.

652

This is not new.

653

This is the way it worked.

654

So this is, th- this movie,

they were just sort of like…

655

It was not about the fact that it

was, like, incompetent dudes who

656

were running everything, because

incompetent dudes have always run things.

657

This movie was about these, these women

who, who wanted or needed or deserved

658

more and, and, like, that contention

659

Jane Fonda's character Judy

is divorced Which is, uh,

660

it's kind of a scandal, right?

661

Is, is that still…

662

In, in 1980 was that still like, "Ooh,

she's a fallen woman," type of thing?

663

Beck: Oh yeah, my grandma made a big

deal when my mom got divorced, and

664

my mom got divorced in '82, I think.

665

And grandma never forgave her for that

666

Dash: yeah, in the…

667

It was the, the mid-'90s when a, a

friend of ours was getting married to

668

somebody that, like, a lot of the older

women were convinced was a mistake.

669

You know, they were like…

670

I, and I don't know what it was.

671

I was too young to remember it, but

I remember an argument between my

672

Memaw Beulah and this girl's mom

Because her, her mom was, I think I

673

told you about him, uh, her before,

like she was abused by their husband.

674

Like, it was, they were

h- it was a really, a hard

675

household that they lived in.

676

And so Memaw Beulah was like, "Well,

you know, if there's hardships, you just

677

gotta never go to bed angry or whatever."

678

And Cathy was like, "Fuck that.

679

Divorce him.

680

You, I'll come get you like

the second he says something."

681

And I was like, "Oh, shit," 'cause no- you

don't argue with Memaw Beulah, you know?

682

Beck: Right

683

Dash: so that, I mean, I'm sure

that that was a significant moment

684

in the lineage of that, you know,

of those three women right there.

685

Like, that was, that was a big

deal, like that conversation

686

I just happened to be privy to

687

And then, I don't know, not a lot happens.

688

We get introduced to a ton of characters.

689

We're sort of introduced to this,

like, sycophant, um, Roz, who is Mr.

690

Hart's A assistant,

administrative assistant.

691

Which, what's the difference

between her and Doralee?

692

So a secretary and an a- I just, I don't

know what these people's jobs were.

693

So whatever Roz did is different

than whatever Violet did, which is

694

different than whatever Doralee did

695

Beck: Right?

696

Dash: And they're all

pitted against each other.

697

That was what was really interesting

to me is, like, we were plopped down

698

in the middle of this, community

or whatever you wanna call it, this

699

workplace, ins- I instantly understood

that all of these people had somehow

700

been pitted against each other.

701

Nobody liked Doralee because…

702

Well, we're not told immediately,

but I was able to guess pretty

703

immediately what people thought of her.

704

And,

705

Beck: Right

706

Dash: like, the, the discomfort I felt

around, like, this idea that the reason

707

I could guess was probably a little

bit to do with the visual language of

708

the film, but probably also because I

was raised in the culture that taught

709

me to do that as well, you know?

710

'Cause Doralee is, like, drop-dead

gorgeous and works for the most powerful

711

man in the office, and so folks think

that she's having an affair with him

712

Beck: have gotten pigeonholed into

those kind of roles for a long time.

713

I think, you know, that women for a

long time weren't taken seriously for

714

their job skills, you know, especially

if they had any kind of, of look.

715

Dash: Oh, man, he had me…

716

And Dabney Coleman, again, is a genius.

717

Like He had me crawling out of my

skin in that scene where he calls

718

her in to take a memo, which first

of all, we can't write our own memos?

719

I know that this used to be a thing.

720

This was a job people did, but the way…

721

Like, I, I don't know, the way

I, I could just feel myself, I

722

could barely look at the screen.

723

I felt so strongly that I wanted to look

away from the screen when he did that

724

thing where he was like, "Oh, stop."

725

He was like, "Turn around, let me

see you from the rear," or whatever.

726

And I was like, oh my God, that's right.

727

That used to just…

728

I mean, not that any kind of grooming

or harassment or power play is absent

729

from any kind of work environment,

specifically corporate spaces,

730

but it's not that anymore, right?

731

Like, she would have rights today So the

level of cynicism I had earlier about

732

how nothing has changed isn't quite true.

733

Some things have changed

734

' Cause at least some of the things that he

did and said in this movie are illegal now

735

Beck: Right?

736

Well, that's also way before, like

Anita Hill and, and, and Clarence

737

Thomas didn't happen until '91, right?

738

So sexual harassment wasn't even a part

of the vernacular yet really as a term,

739

so that's just the way things were

740

Dash: Yeah.

741

Yeah, a, a criticism of that was

so, of, of that treatment of the

742

ex- expectations of this workpl-

even the, the fact that everyone's

743

get promoted over Violet, right?

744

She keeps training these mediocre

men who then become her boss.

745

She tried to, to argue.

746

Sh- like, for us, we would…

747

If you could just prove that

that was happening, you would win

748

your discrimination complaint.

749

Now, what happens after that?

750

Who knows, right?

751

Every, like, structures are

different, depends on who you work

752

for, but there is a process now.

753

Lily Tomlin's character goes

and points this out to him, and

754

he goes, "Yeah, I know, because

men are just better employees.

755

Everybody wants to work with me."

756

You know, like, it didn't work the

way like, 'cause she goes and says it.

757

She stands up for yourself, for

herself, and you're like, "Okay,

758

great, finally she said it."

759

And he just goes, "Yep."

760

It was such a letdown

761

Beck: And I think that might be

confusing for modern viewers because

762

they don't realize that things

were like that, were that bad

763

Dash: Yeah.

764

Uh, and, uh, so, and it's not just,

like we see, our three main characters,

765

our, our protagonists are all s- you

know, cis, straight, white women.

766

There are gestures to other

minoritized experiences in this,

767

in this environment, though.

768

There's the, uh, the

Black man who is stuck.

769

He's, he's, uh, only allowed

to do like the mail room thing.

770

He wants to get out of the mail room,

but he's, uh, kept in there, which is

771

very much a back rooms, that's where

the servants, you know, that, that

772

was not, um, just throwaway, right?

773

That was intentional.

774

There's the, uh, Latina woman

who was fired for discussing

775

her salary just outright.

776

But did you notice when she, when,

like, she was clearing out her

777

desk, who was standing next to her?

778

It was a cop.

779

They called the police and had

her escorted off the premises

780

Beck: Oh, wow.

781

Yeah, no, I didn't catch that

782

Dash: Yeah.

783

He was standing over her shoulder

watching her put her things in her

784

bag, I guess looking for whether

she was stealing company stuff.

785

Yeah, I don't know.

786

So there were, there were other elements

of it in there, and I- that's what made

787

me wonder, like, what was it that…

788

I wish we could have had a director's cut.

789

Oh, God, a director's cut

of 9 to 5 would go so hard.

790

But he died in '87 of AIDS.

791

So, like, I, but I wanna know, like,

what did Fonda have him take out?

792

Because the way she described

it, she said, like, he thought it

793

worked, he thought it was fine,

but She said she didn't want it

794

to feel like a, a feminist screed

795

Beck: Right?

796

Well, that's understandable

797

Dash: I do get it.

798

I do- she's trying to make a film.

799

She's trying to make something

that people will pay to see.

800

But also, she chose a topic that

there's a lot to say about, so

801

you have to have a plan for that.

802

So I don't know.

803

I'd be in…

804

I would just…

805

I wish we could, could

have that director's cut

806

But s- you know, thing, this day, the,

we, this is all one day that this happens.

807

They all have a very shitty day,

and they wind up, the three of them,

808

at Charlie's Bar together drinking

their feelings Um, I don't remember

809

what happened to each of them.

810

The Xerox machine thing

happened for J- Judy

811

Beck: The, the man being, uh,

promoted above her for Violet

812

Dash: Right.

813

And then, um,

814

Beck: Everything

815

Dash: for Doralee, was it the

816

Beck: yeah

817

Dash: Yeah.

818

It was a really bad day for her.

819

And yeah, they, they wind up

at this bar together because…

820

Oh, and but the thing that sort of…

821

' Cause i- in my mind I was like,

"But, but they weren't chill

822

with each other at this point."

823

But the thing that kind of g- gave

them a, a common ground was watching

824

Maria, the Latino woman, get fired

and escorted out by the police.

825

Like, that kind of grounded them

together, and so then they're at the

826

bar drinking together, talking about

how much they fucking hate this dude

827

Beck: Right?

828

Dash: And then they just

take the party home.

829

They go to Doralee's house who, and, uh…

830

Oh, Lily Tomlin's character.

831

Oh my God, with the f- uh, Violet.

832

So th- she has the joint when

they're in the bar, and she's like,

833

"We should go smoke this marijuana

cigarette," which is really adorable.

834

But she got it, she got it from her son.

835

Uh, when it cut to her…

836

So she goes from, like, this

environment where, like, no-

837

that she's undervalued, right?

838

He's patronized her, and he said, like,

"People would rather deal with men.

839

You're just a woman," yada, yada.

840

Then we cut to her installing

an electronic garage door

841

opener herself I gasped

842

Ev- even lesbians know not to

install your own garage door opener.

843

Springs are murderous.

844

Like, people die doing that.

845

Like, there's such…

846

There's a spring in there that's

under so much tension that if you

847

just make the slightest mistake or

it fails in some way, it kills you.

848

Um, but to me, I just thought…

849

I know it's because they needed it for

the plot later, but what an interesting

850

way to show that sh- one, she's very,

she is in fact very capable, and

851

it's less the d- literally lethal

thing is less stressful to her than

852

dealing with this stupid guy at work

853

And then the, the thing winds up

being what they hang him from later

854

Beck: The, the whole pot

scene was hilarious to me.

855

Because again, that's way

before its time, I think.

856

Dash: Mm-hmm.

857

Beck: as accepted as it is now, you know?

858

It's not like you were watching

Half Baked or something like that.

859

This was just a mainstream movie, and

there was a pot scene in the middle of it.

860

With no Seth Rogen or anything, you know?

861

Dash: Right.

862

Three nice white ladies,

863

Beck: Yeah

864

Smoking

865

Dash: Powwy wowwy.

866

Reagan wrote about that

shit in his memoir.

867

Like, that was part of the reason why…

868

Yeah, that was part of the reason why,

like, they got on their drug crusade.

869

It, he, he was fucking crazy.

870

But the, the pot thing was because

this is where their halluci- or

871

their fantasies about how they

would murder this guy come in.

872

And they were very fun, but yeah, they,

they got a little long in the tooth.

873

Oh, oh, the, the Disney one,

the Disney princess one.

874

That one was funny

875

Beck: Yeah, the cartoon,

that was really cool.

876

That was before Who'd Fra- Who Framed

Robert Roger Rabbit, you know what I mean?

877

So that was really, like,

advanced for the time

878

Dash: Yeah.

879

There were actually, uh, there

were quite a few things…

880

This, I was thinking about this when

we first started, um, recording.

881

It was like 1980 was a long time ago.

882

This movie does not feel

like it's 46 years old.

883

It…

884

Beck: Mm-mm.

885

Dash: And, and, and m- in more

ways than just the subject

886

matter, like the way it's shot,

887

Beck: that's for sure

888

Dash: Yeah, right?

889

It is so contemporary.

890

Even structure, that is not a stupid

structure for a contemporary film.

891

Like, that would just be some auteur

shit which again goes back to the

892

ahead of its time/why it's a cult

film Oddly, Violet's fantasy is about,

893

poisoning his coffee, and then, uh, she

accidentally does do that the next day.

894

They go in the next day, they're like

"Wow, we got pretty crazy last night."

895

Can you imagine going into

work after the night they had?

896

Like getting shit-faced.

897

I don't- I'm not sure…

898

Like, they made eye contact.

899

I don't know if I'd be making eye

contact after a night like that.

900

Like, "Hey, haven't seen you

since we got stoned and fantasized

901

about murdering our boss."

902

But they're so bonded, I

guess, yeah, I love that.

903

something that sort of breaks down

the wall between Violet and Doralee is

904

that Violet tells her in front of Mr.

905

Hart that he's been telling everybody

that they're having an affair, and

906

she's like, "I have been saying no to

you just to keep my job, and you're

907

still out here lying about it."

908

That was an interesting moment for, like,

I don't know, this idea of being one

909

of the good ones, like being a pick me.

910

If I'm good, patriarchy will choose me.

911

If I, if I just turn the other

cheek, if I just take it all on

912

the chin and I work hard, keep my

nose clean, whatever, insert other

913

platitude here, which is what he did.

914

First time we meet him, he's just

listing off the inspirational poster

915

type of slogans and stuff about teamwork.

916

Uh, but, you know, that's

what hegemony does.

917

Hegemony is like, "If you're

good for long enough, I'll reward

918

you later," and it doesn't.

919

That's just how it works.

920

That's where its power comes from.

921

And so, like Doralee is kind of

broken out of that moment by Violet-

922

A lot of the people who who were, uh,

like critics, they didn't like the

923

movie and stuff, like I said, they

all universally loved Dolly Parton.

924

I was kinda joking about, like,

you know, that it was because of

925

her boobs, but some of them did…

926

Like, they said real reasons

why they appreciated her.

927

And a couple of, like, critics pointed

out that her performance is very…

928

They've called it, it's

called unstudied, basically.

929

Like, she has not studied acting.

930

She's not gone to any schools or,

or she's not done improv work.

931

You know, she's just a natural,

and that's like lightning in a

932

bottle, just being able to capture

something like that on screen.

933

if we're gonna be honest,

Dolly is a big reason why this

934

movie remains at all, you know?

935

Why it wasn't just forgotten, why it,

it had enough life in it to reach its

936

audience Like that is fucking star power

937

Beck: the song alone, like

938

Dash: Yes

939

Beck: was huge

940

Dash: It was everywhere.

941

It was still everywhere when I was a

kid, so I was, I wasn't even born yet.

942

I mean, I was born, like, not long after

this, but it, the song 9 to 5 was just…

943

Like, when you're born, certain things

are downloaded into your brain, you know?

944

Just passed via osmosis from the, the

vaginal canal, and 9 to 5 is one of them.

945

Dolly Parton has big hair

and big boobs is one of them.

946

You don't even feel like you need

an introduction to her i- if you're

947

my age or, or younger, you know?

948

Beck: Right

949

Dash: And that song was, it was unique.

950

Like soundtracks…

951

One thing I, like the, the, um, opening

of it, I, it was so nostalgic for me,

952

and not just because of this movie.

953

This movie's not terribly

nostalgic for me because I didn't

954

watch it until I was like 35.

955

But a kind of movie opening that is

just frenetic montage that sets a scene

956

with the credits playing and a whole-ass

song playing from beginning to end.

957

they do not do credits like that anymore.

958

They are getting a little retro with

credits these days, I've noticed,

959

but that's neither here nor there.

960

This was like, it was like a music video.

961

It was so interesting.

962

The whole song played

963

Beck: And the

964

Dash: Trying to read

965

Beck: are genius

966

Dash: So good.

967

Oh, she was.

968

Like, that's why I wanna get…

969

'Cause I haven't read

the, the Songteller book.

970

What is it called?

971

Yeah, Songteller, deep

dive into the stories.

972

170 songs, 175 songs.

973

Cool.

974

Yeah, she's, I mean, very good.

975

Like, the things, the story that that

song tells Well, who is speaking in it?

976

I was just now thinking like

977

Is it her character, or is

it, is it Violet's character?

978

Or is it an everyman?

979

It's not gendered necessarily, but

the way she's singing it would've been

980

more of like a man's experience, right?

981

Because women didn't really…

982

They weren't treated as

workers in the workplace

983

Beck: Mm-hmm.

984

Dash: It's such a fucking bop

985

Beck: I thought it was cool how, how

much stuff they introduced to the

986

office once he was gone and, and how

well it went over, you know, how they

987

Dash: Oh

988

Beck: things.

989

We're still reaching for some

of those things today, for sure

990

Dash: Hmm.

991

yeah, in, in part two, act

two of the film is they…

992

Violet ac- she accidentally poisons his

coffee, uh, but a chair that has been

993

out to get him collapses and knocks him

unconscious right before he can drink

994

the coffee, but she doesn't know this,

so she believes that she's killed him.

995

And the farcical element

of act two is extreme.

996

The like, they follow, they go

to the hospital, they steal a

997

corpse that they think is him then

somehow they kidnap him as well.

998

How do they get him?

999

Oh, they go

00:47:58,460 --> 00:48:01,310

Beck: gets mad at him and,

and hog ties him in the

00:48:01,602 --> 00:48:02,252

Dash: Yeah.

00:48:02,252 --> 00:48:04,122

Yeah, which was her fantasy.

00:48:04,122 --> 00:48:07,752

I'm just now realizing that each of

their three fantasies actually happened.

00:48:08,352 --> 00:48:10,532

' Cause Violet's fantasy

was the, the rat poison.

00:48:10,542 --> 00:48:11,632

She actually did that.

00:48:12,232 --> 00:48:16,422

Um, Doralee's was the hog tie, and

she actually did that, and then Judy's

00:48:16,422 --> 00:48:18,212

was shooting him, which she did.

00:48:19,002 --> 00:48:22,632

but it's because they were talking

about how, how crazy it was that they

00:48:22,632 --> 00:48:25,952

thought they had pr- poisoned him, and

he just showed up to work that morning.

00:48:26,552 --> 00:48:29,502

Well, they're in the bathroom talking

about this, and Roz is in there.

00:48:29,592 --> 00:48:33,382

Oh, God, it cut to her, like, writing

it down on a roll of toilet paper

00:48:33,382 --> 00:48:34,642

she's got spread across her lap.

00:48:34,662 --> 00:48:35,902

I just thought that was so funny.

00:48:36,182 --> 00:48:38,864

Like a stenographer, like always prepared

00:48:39,464 --> 00:48:39,904

Beck: Right?

00:48:40,284 --> 00:48:41,634

Yeah, I thought that was a good scene too

00:48:42,234 --> 00:48:43,134

Very cool.

00:48:43,334 --> 00:48:44,004

Where'd you get that?

00:48:44,604 --> 00:48:45,834

Dash: At the Peddler's Mall.

00:48:45,994 --> 00:48:49,814

This, this is my throw

pillow with Dolly's iconic…

00:48:49,864 --> 00:48:51,664

Is this an album cover, this photo?

00:48:51,864 --> 00:48:55,014

We used it whenever you did her

as a Noun of Appalachian Interest

00:48:55,614 --> 00:48:57,104

Beck: I'm not sure, to be honest with you

00:48:57,704 --> 00:49:00,074

Dash: But it's the one with her with

the big hoop earring looking over

00:49:00,074 --> 00:49:01,494

her shoulder in the jeans jacket

00:49:02,094 --> 00:49:03,634

Beck: Yehaw

00:49:04,104 --> 00:49:05,334

In the Tennessee tuxedo

00:49:05,934 --> 00:49:06,554

Dash: Yes.

00:49:07,077 --> 00:49:10,897

she or, um, Roz tells what's his face, Mr.

00:49:10,897 --> 00:49:14,747

Hart, what she overheard them saying,

which was that they accidentally…

00:49:14,897 --> 00:49:17,197

And he thinks she's fucking with

him or they're fucking with her.

00:49:17,547 --> 00:49:18,807

She's like, "Well, they

didn't know I was there."

00:49:18,807 --> 00:49:19,727

And he's like, "Oh, shit.

00:49:19,727 --> 00:49:20,157

Okay."

00:49:20,467 --> 00:49:23,917

And so he confronts, he calls

them in and confronts them and was

00:49:23,917 --> 00:49:26,687

like, " I'm gonna get y'all arrested."

00:49:27,287 --> 00:49:28,367

Or is it just Doralee?

00:49:28,967 --> 00:49:29,637

Beck: I don't remember

00:49:29,987 --> 00:49:30,377

Dash: Hart…

00:49:30,477 --> 00:49:30,847

Okay.

00:49:31,447 --> 00:49:35,327

Oh, he tries to blackmail

her into fucking him.

00:49:35,927 --> 00:49:39,927

So his like, he just like goes

straight back to, to like, uh,

00:49:40,187 --> 00:49:41,257

you know, sexual harassment.

00:49:41,267 --> 00:49:45,157

He's like, "I won't get them, I won't

get Violet arrested if you'll come to

00:49:45,157 --> 00:49:46,917

my house and stay the night with me."

00:49:47,517 --> 00:49:49,107

And she was like, "Nope."

00:49:49,707 --> 00:49:53,367

So she, and her, she, the way she, she

performed this scene was incredible.

00:49:53,367 --> 00:49:54,797

She I mean, natural is the word for it.

00:49:55,167 --> 00:49:58,317

Because she can be witty and she can be

funny because she knew how to do those

00:49:58,317 --> 00:50:01,477

things, but when it was time for her to,

like, amp up her performance and actually

00:50:01,867 --> 00:50:07,757

be a little unhinged and threatening,

she did a great job of making it, making

00:50:07,757 --> 00:50:10,737

me believe that this woman could…

00:50:10,757 --> 00:50:13,697

He's much taller and stronger than her,

that she could actually have pulled

00:50:13,697 --> 00:50:16,387

this off and pushed him down in his

chair and hogtied him with the telephone

00:50:16,987 --> 00:50:19,117

line and then she shoves the scarf.

00:50:19,157 --> 00:50:20,347

This scarf gets around.

00:50:20,427 --> 00:50:22,307

It, it goes in so many people's mouths

00:50:24,066 --> 00:50:26,646

And then that's when Judy, or…

00:50:27,246 --> 00:50:27,756

I don't know.

00:50:27,796 --> 00:50:28,476

I'm lost again

00:50:29,076 --> 00:50:32,526

Oh, he, so then she says, that's

when Judy comes up, and she's

00:50:32,526 --> 00:50:33,576

like, "Don't let him out."

00:50:33,976 --> 00:50:35,546

And he's like, "Oh, my hands hurt.

00:50:35,556 --> 00:50:36,416

This is too tight."

00:50:36,416 --> 00:50:41,456

And she tricks her into loosening them,

which is then she knew that Dolly is

00:50:41,456 --> 00:50:45,526

packing, that Dora Lee keeps a gun in

her purse, which was sitting right there.

00:50:45,986 --> 00:50:50,976

And so that's when Judy, 'cause he got

loose and was, like, uh, about to get

00:50:50,976 --> 00:50:55,236

away, and so she pulls the gun out and

starts firing at him, which is insane.

00:50:55,836 --> 00:50:56,606

What the fuck?

00:50:56,614 --> 00:50:58,114

Beck: do they explain

that the next morning?

00:50:58,154 --> 00:51:01,734

Like, they show the glass getting

repaired, but they never show, like,

00:51:02,024 --> 00:51:04,594

there would've been some kind of

investigation to that or something.

00:51:04,594 --> 00:51:05,764

Do they not call the police?

00:51:05,764 --> 00:51:06,254

You know?

00:51:06,304 --> 00:51:06,754

Like

00:51:06,970 --> 00:51:07,800

Dash: Guess not.

00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,740

And, like, were there

bullet casings around?

00:51:11,550 --> 00:51:12,000

I don't know.

00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,490

I mean, they really did get

away with a lot, but that's when

00:51:15,490 --> 00:51:17,900

they just full on kidnap him.

00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:22,580

They take him to Judy's house because her

husband is not there anymore, and they

00:51:22,580 --> 00:51:30,070

install a system to keep him attached in

a harness to this, uh, garage door opener

00:51:30,670 --> 00:51:37,040

Uh, that Violet is very, I guess, able

to, to move multiple places and not kill

00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:41,780

herself with But that's when they begin

to run this office, and it, like, they

00:51:41,860 --> 00:51:49,480

start implementing all these policies that

are well-known policies to impact worker,

00:51:49,590 --> 00:51:55,083

like, productivity, retention decreases

absenteeism, increase quality of life.

00:51:55,083 --> 00:51:57,673

Like, these, this, this was

shit they knew in the '70s.

00:51:58,273 --> 00:52:02,243

That kinda fucked me up a little

bit, because I'm like, "Okay, maybe,

00:52:02,253 --> 00:52:04,893

maybe it just wasn't common knowledge

that all this stuff would work."

00:52:05,233 --> 00:52:06,933

They knew this shit then,

and they weren't doing it

00:52:07,533 --> 00:52:10,203

I mean, we, we're still not

really doing it across the board.

00:52:10,803 --> 00:52:12,923

And I still don't know what

that company really did, but…

00:52:13,523 --> 00:52:15,053

So they, they opened a daycare

00:52:15,285 --> 00:52:15,935

Beck: really said

00:52:16,535 --> 00:52:17,015

Dash: Yehaw

00:52:17,615 --> 00:52:18,335

Um, they let people have part-time

work, so they brought Maria

00:52:18,335 --> 00:52:19,665

back and she was able to…

00:52:19,685 --> 00:52:22,185

'Cause one of the things she was

trying to, like, console herself

00:52:22,205 --> 00:52:26,055

with when she was being fired was

like, "Well, it was, it was hard to

00:52:26,055 --> 00:52:30,705

be a full-time mother or a full-time

employee and a mom or something."

00:52:30,705 --> 00:52:32,865

So she comes back and works part-time.

00:52:33,465 --> 00:52:34,365

What were some other ones?

00:52:34,965 --> 00:52:38,395

Oh, they could have they could have

plants and things out on their desks

00:52:41,337 --> 00:52:42,377

yeah, no time clock.

00:52:42,577 --> 00:52:45,927

There was a flexible schedule thing

where people could come and work

00:52:45,937 --> 00:52:49,857

whenever they felt most productive,

which meant that they had, they had

00:52:49,857 --> 00:52:53,957

switched over to some other metric

of, like, measuring productivity.

00:52:54,557 --> 00:52:55,247

And

00:52:55,847 --> 00:52:56,127

I don't know.

00:52:56,157 --> 00:52:56,497

There was…

00:52:56,537 --> 00:52:58,957

I feel like there was at

least, uh, maybe a couple more

00:52:59,557 --> 00:53:00,817

Oh, the equal pay thing.

00:53:00,897 --> 00:53:01,557

That's what it was.

00:53:02,157 --> 00:53:06,307

Because that was the one whenever the

dude who had noticed the productivity,

00:53:06,307 --> 00:53:09,697

like the big mister whatever, who

runs the whole building when he…

00:53:09,767 --> 00:53:10,197

Or building.

00:53:10,497 --> 00:53:11,367

Runs the whole business.

00:53:11,627 --> 00:53:14,657

When he came and was like, "I've

seen the numbers of your place.

00:53:14,657 --> 00:53:18,957

You're doing great," after he finally

escapes, he was like, "Yep, everything is

00:53:18,967 --> 00:53:20,517

awesome except for the equal pay thing.

00:53:20,517 --> 00:53:21,297

You can't do that."

00:53:22,603 --> 00:53:25,173

Which is probably how

that went in real life too

00:53:25,773 --> 00:53:25,923

Beck: The

00:53:26,171 --> 00:53:26,881

Dash: But they, they

00:53:27,193 --> 00:53:32,333

a law doesn't mean that they enforced it

00:53:32,933 --> 00:53:35,903

Dash: I think, yeah, because I

think there was another piece that

00:53:35,923 --> 00:53:42,533

also needed to be, to pass if not

in tandem, then at least, like, in,

00:53:42,533 --> 00:53:47,283

um, some sort of, like, supporting

the ERA, the Equal Rights Amendment,

00:53:47,613 --> 00:53:49,133

and we just never passed that one.

00:53:49,133 --> 00:53:51,113

So we'll pass half of something,

but not the other half

00:53:51,713 --> 00:53:52,083

Beck: Yeah

00:53:52,286 --> 00:53:56,982

Dash: Now, That kind of is like all

of, all of act two is just them making

00:53:56,982 --> 00:54:00,902

all these changes to this office while

they've got him locked in the, the

00:54:00,942 --> 00:54:06,372

upstairs of J- Judy's house and improving

everybody's lives and nobody misses him

00:54:12,349 --> 00:54:14,589

But they also, they have to

solve a problem because they're

00:54:14,589 --> 00:54:15,729

like, "Okay, we can't like…"

00:54:16,329 --> 00:54:17,559

They're, they don't wanna kill him.

00:54:18,159 --> 00:54:18,879

What are they gonna do?

00:54:18,879 --> 00:54:19,969

This isn't sustainable.

00:54:20,325 --> 00:54:21,955

They can't keep him locked up forever.

00:54:22,255 --> 00:54:27,785

so they decide they're gonna blackmail

him with the knowledge that he is

00:54:27,885 --> 00:54:31,005

skimming money somehow from this business

00:54:31,605 --> 00:54:32,625

Or warehouse of some kind

00:54:33,225 --> 00:54:33,635

Beck: Yeah.

00:54:34,235 --> 00:54:36,405

Selling off the inventory and

saying it's there or something

00:54:37,005 --> 00:54:38,115

Dash: Yeah, something like that.

00:54:38,465 --> 00:54:41,935

So they're, they've, like, trying

to put together the proof of that.

00:54:42,535 --> 00:54:45,675

They're just like, they have

all these plates in the air.

00:54:45,705 --> 00:54:50,405

They're trying to keep, uh, going until

they can do something to get him arrested.

00:54:50,965 --> 00:54:55,405

But ultimately he's able to,

to get a- away from, with that.

00:54:56,005 --> 00:54:58,825

But he gets caught by their success.

00:54:58,825 --> 00:55:02,585

He comes back to the office right

as he's about to be like, " I'm…"

00:55:02,605 --> 00:55:04,875

He says something like, "I'm

gonna send you bitches to jail."

00:55:05,475 --> 00:55:09,625

Which, you know, they did kidnap

him and shoot at him and whatever.

00:55:10,225 --> 00:55:15,525

But, you know, they also were doing a

good job, so what do we do with that?

00:55:15,775 --> 00:55:18,205

And so this is when the, the

big boss guy shows up, and

00:55:18,205 --> 00:55:19,105

he's like, "You're doing great.

00:55:19,105 --> 00:55:19,945

You're gonna go to Brazil."

00:55:20,427 --> 00:55:22,107

Beck: Like, there was no better

way that that could have ended

00:55:22,699 --> 00:55:23,369

Dash: It was great.

00:55:23,379 --> 00:55:28,869

It was really satisfying, and it was

super fun to watch Violet and, you

00:55:28,869 --> 00:55:33,219

know, take this dude on a tour and these

are all the incredible things we did,

00:55:33,219 --> 00:55:36,009

and here's all the ways that they've

improved people's lives and improved,

00:55:36,009 --> 00:55:37,389

like, their orientation to work.

00:55:37,389 --> 00:55:38,639

They love coming to work now.

00:55:39,099 --> 00:55:42,209

And watching, you know, her

get her moment, it was so cool.

00:55:42,209 --> 00:55:44,299

And Judy and Doralee were…

00:55:44,409 --> 00:55:45,289

They were there.

00:55:45,289 --> 00:55:48,589

They got to be there, and they were all,

like, supportive and happy and stuff.

00:55:48,879 --> 00:55:52,309

It was, it was like all the

sudden, this really happy and

00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:54,539

cool ending comes out of nowhere

00:55:55,139 --> 00:55:58,829

And then they, they do that thing

where they do some like after credits

00:55:58,829 --> 00:56:00,499

cards about what happened to people.

00:56:01,099 --> 00:56:02,649

Sometimes I like that.

00:56:02,679 --> 00:56:03,219

I really…

00:56:03,259 --> 00:56:04,289

I hated these.

00:56:04,319 --> 00:56:05,439

What did you think of those?

00:56:06,039 --> 00:56:07,149

Beck: I thought they were okay.

00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:10,559

It, I thought it was silly that they made

her become a country and western star.

00:56:10,649 --> 00:56:11,169

Like, like

00:56:11,695 --> 00:56:12,515

Dash: They were all…

00:56:12,589 --> 00:56:13,529

Beck: that's the, you know

00:56:14,129 --> 00:56:16,259

Dash: Like, okay, Violet

becomes vice president.

00:56:16,859 --> 00:56:17,379

Yeah.

00:56:17,979 --> 00:56:20,359

Judy marries the Xerox repairman

00:56:20,959 --> 00:56:26,529

Doralee becomes a country and

western singer, and Heart is abducted

00:56:26,569 --> 00:56:29,609

by a tribe in Brazil and eaten

00:56:30,070 --> 00:56:31,670

Beck: And they never

thought he'd amount to shit.

00:56:32,634 --> 00:56:34,964

Dash: It was kind of

like halfway of a joke.

00:56:34,964 --> 00:56:36,024

It was halfway to a joke.

00:56:36,264 --> 00:56:40,044

They only got as far as the

xenophobia and the racism, you know?

00:56:40,393 --> 00:56:40,903

Beck: Right

00:56:41,389 --> 00:56:43,809

Dash: w- like, you didn't

do anything with that.

00:56:43,809 --> 00:56:46,039

You kind of wr- and right at the

end, you know, they just, it…

00:56:46,129 --> 00:56:47,339

I was like, "Fuck."

00:56:47,579 --> 00:56:53,659

I was feeling good, and now you just had

to, like, plop this, at best, nothing

00:56:53,659 --> 00:56:57,239

burger of a, of an outro card on here.

00:56:57,259 --> 00:56:57,529

I don't know.

00:56:57,539 --> 00:56:59,959

I really, that really bothered me,

and I'm surprised it bothered me

00:56:59,959 --> 00:57:03,699

that much, I think because I was

feeling good, and I was, like, really

00:57:03,699 --> 00:57:07,439

liking how things were wrapping

up, and I'd forgot they were there.

00:57:07,839 --> 00:57:11,029

And then I s- at first when they came

up, I was like, "Oh, these are often

00:57:11,029 --> 00:57:12,789

fun and add something to the story."

00:57:13,129 --> 00:57:13,559

Nope.

00:57:14,377 --> 00:57:16,607

But we got to hear 9 to 5 again, so.

00:57:17,004 --> 00:57:17,494

Beck: Yeah.

00:57:17,867 --> 00:57:19,197

I really think it's a great film.