In this episode, Elise Enriquez joins host Diann Wingert to delve into the topic of being productive with purpose. They explore the societal pressures for women to deny their needs and the importance of setting boundaries. Elise emphasizes the value of experimentation and taking risks, even in the face of uncertainty. They discuss the need for a program that teaches women how to fail, take risks, and make mistakes without feeling like losers. 

The episode also covers the significance of self-acceptance and recognizing what one truly needs. Elise and Diann share personal anecdotes, practical tips, and thought-provoking insights to help female entrepreneurs achieve productivity and fulfillment in their businesses.

Elise Enriquez is a productivity coach and strategist, as well as a former Microsoft employee. She is passionate about helping women find clarity, prioritize their goals, and create simple systems that work for them. With her unique approach to productivity, Elise has helped numerous female entrepreneurs unlock their potential and make strides towards their dreams.

Mentioned in this episode: 

Michelle Mazur’s Expert Up Club: https://drmichellemazur.com/expert-up

How to connect with Elise Enriquez

Website: https://www.eliseenriquez.com/

Podcast: https://www.eliseenriquez.com/podcasts/the-productivity-shift

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elisemenriquez/

Want to take the next step?  Ask yourself these questions:

• How does societal pressure affect women's ability to prioritize their needs and be disruptive in their pursuits?
• What are the benefits of running experiments and trying new paths, even when uncertain of the outcome?
• How can we overcome the fear of making mistakes and embrace the value of experimentation and learning from failures?
• What does true productivity look like, and why is it important to understand our individual patterns of success and failure?
• How does self-acceptance and recognizing our needs lead to better productivity and support for driven women entrepreneurs? 

If you are ready to shift your business from doing what you’re used to doing to what is aligned with your purpose, my Boss Up Breakthrough framework is a great place to start.  We take a look at what is working and what no longer is, where you need to Boss Up your boundaries, your offers, your pricing, or your marketing strategy and start implementing the changes that move the needle.  We will also make sure you are including self-care in your business plan so that you’re not just successful on the outside, but aligned with your values, and priorities on the inside.  

Want to know more?  Schedule a free consultation here: https://bit.ly/calendly-free-consultation

Have you grabbed my private podcast yet?  You listen to it in the same podcast player where you hear this show, and the private podcast “Show Up Like a Boss” is like a backstage pass to working with me.  Check it out!  https://bit.ly/show-up-like-a-boss

H: So Elise, you and I both know there are no shortage of productivity coaches and speakers and there's certainly no shortage of productivity focused podcasts. But yours is different starting with the title, your podcast is called Productivity Shift, can you take us into that as we're getting started in what I know is going to be an amazing conversation.

G: Thanks for having me. Yeah, I would love to bring you into why, you know, why the productivity shift, where did that come from. It was this realization that anything that we're going to do, just like with our marketing, these things take time right? We gotta try things out, we have run experiments, we gotta see what's going on in order to figure out what's really gonna work for us. We have to try things in the real world and so I originally had thought it was gonna be, like, the productivity breakthrough, the productivity revolution, or, you know, something extreme and fast, and it's just like none of this is fast. All of this is changes in our mindset, it's changes in our behaviors is changes in our habits, and all of those things take time.

So that's one part of it about it being a shift, to kind of imply, a slower progressive kind of process. But the other part of it is shifting away, like you said, from all the different kinds of productivity out there, especially the kind of productivity that is touted by white men and white collars that have assistants and wives and other people supporting them. The productivity shift is by and large for women who are solopreneurs, who are running small businesses, who are leading teams. Because it's acknowledging that there is just the additional mental load that we are pre con we've been conditioned by society to carry right and being able to navigate that world and do all the things that we wanna do requires a different take. And so that's where that's the other shift component of the productivity shift.

H: So your take on productivity is not get more done and make it happen as fast as possible. It's accept the fact that productivity activity is not about getting more done. It's about getting the right things done at the right time for the right reasons and taking your whole business and the rest of your life into consideration when setting those productivity goals, because that's definitely something you do very differently. Because I listen to a lot of productivity shows or have listened to a lot of productivity shows and you're so right. It's most of the bros who do not acknowledge the privilege of how much support they have behind the scenes. And it sort of conveys the impression that it's a level playing field, but it really it really, really isn't. So that sets us up for unrealistic expectations and then blaming ourselves when we don't reach them.

G: Yeah and I think it's the way I like to define productivity is really close to what you were just saying. Like, so you get me, you already you already get me Diann and I love it. The way I think about it is productivity is really about making progress on what matters most to you while still remaining present to the people, experiences, and opportunities that are all around you. In other words, it's like, yeah get stuff done right, get stuff done that matters to you and enjoy the life that you currently have. One of my biggest wake up calls came during my divorce, and I was falling in love with somebody else. I was in the middle of a divorce, falling in love with somebody else, and was just like, this is not the right time right? Like and my sister was like, yeah, I hear you. That might be hard for him that this is happen you know, for my ex that this is that that you are so ready to move on. And she's like, but I can tell this person really cares for you and I can tell you really care for her. She's like, life's too effing short, man, go for it and I was just, like, what the like, what?

No, you're not supposed you're supposed to stop me from doing this crazy thing right now, this is a very disruptive thing, but that that connection, that meaningful relationship, like, that's what mattered most. At that moment, that was productivity, it was me making progress on making a connection with somebody that I felt so compelled to connect with right? And so that mattered most. Sometimes what matters most is lunch with your best friend. Sometimes what matters most is a nap, and sometimes what matters most is a presentation you're gonna give tomorrow right? So there's you get to decide, though that's the key is that you get to decide what matters most. And I think that for women, especially, we have a lot of other people's expectations on us, and I want you to start to shed that and be able to say no. But what do I want, what do I want to make progress on and how can I do that in a way where I don't miss out on all the goodness that's happening around me right now because life's too effing short.

H: That right there is the productivity shift because how many people who teach other people how to be more productive actually give them permission to identify what matters most to them. The flexibility to kind of triage your life from one moment, one week, one season to the next. And when you're moving forward on the things that matter most, you're being productive in the way that that makes the biggest difference, you're not gonna hear that advice from other people. And I think the type of productivity that's been taught by so many, and unfortunately not just men, you know, I mean, I maybe…

G: Yeah. Women as well.

H: I think so many of the well known women in with the online business space in particular. Many of us hired these women, gave lots of money to these women, bought their courses, read their books, listen to their podcasts, join their memberships, paid them for coaching, but we were given the same advice that we could have gotten from the bros. And I think that has led to a level of almost betrayal so that we don't know who to trust anymore. And you your entire business model starts with trusting yourself. So apart from the fact that we are growing up and have grown up in a society that fundamentally teaches us not to trust ourselves, what are some of the other struggles that women in particular have with productivity because I know there's a lot more.

G: Yeah. No, there are, I mean, a lot of it is there are a lot of attempts because of all the tactics that are out there. So I think I think that's one of the big keys is that what's getting taught in productivity a lot of the time is tactics and not strategy. There's so a menu of tactics that you can choose from. But if you don't have a strategy in place, it's kind of a mishmash that doesn't work well together right? And so you might hear all these life hacks and productivity hacks but what is it that you're trying to do right? So a lot of times, they've tried things either the just the wrong thing, and they don't know how to make those adjustments, or they're scattered. They have so many tools and so many apps and so many ways because they know they're supposed to capture it all right?

But they don't have a way that's working for them and sometimes it's hard to see that for yourself. Sometimes it's hard to see what works for you, I mean, that's why coaches exist. That's why therapists exist is that they help you see your own stuff. Whatever stuff might be. Your patterns, you know, the patterns of success, the patterns of failure so that you can figure out, like, the best approach for you but oftentimes, it's just everything is so scattered, you know, ton of notebooks, tons of apps, you know, all these things. And it's just like, oh gosh, let's just narrow it down a little bit because what happens is when you have things in so many places, you don't trust any of them. And when you don't trust any of them, then it all comes back to your own brain again and trying to count on yourself to remember the right things at the right time.

And anybody who's ever gone to the grocery store without a list knows that your brain is not gonna tell you the right thing at the right time, it never does, right? And so to think that we can do that for the rest of our everything else in our life, the way we can't even do it with a grocery list It's just ridiculous. Or it'd be like having your grocery list scattered in 10 different places and expecting to make a successful either grocery order or trip to the grocery store, it's just like, it's not gonna happen. Sorry to use such domestic examples, but it's just a simple example. So that that scatteredness is a big one, and it's because there is a desire for some structure and some organization, and so they're trying all these things. But it's all very halfhearted and not very not very committed so that's, that's one of them for sure.

H: Well, there's also the reality, Elise, that we are in a current business culture that is very heavily weighted towards promoting the quick fix, the tips, the tricks, the hacks. And I've had plenty of people say, so what are the top 3 things I need, hold it right there, cowboy because the truth is that figuring out what's most important to you, figuring out what your priorities are in this season of your life, in this season of your business, in this season of your health, your relationships, your finances, it takes work. It takes self awareness. It takes self acceptance. It takes the desire to go beyond the surface. So all of the tips and tricks and hacks, they're gonna get you maybe an inch of progress, but that's all they're meant to do.

So then you have to look for another one, and another one, and another one, and another one. Probably we all have, I don't know how many tools that we don't even use, because we never went deep enough with any of them to learn what they can actually do for us because Shiny Object syndrome. Here's another new one and this one promises to be the only tool I need. We talked a few minutes ago, we started recording about MacGyver right? I think we all just want there to be the tool that ends all other tools like the MacGyver, the Swiss army knife and so we keep spending money and wasting time looking for what I call the magic pill. It doesn't exist.

G: No. It doesn't and I think there's a lot of gifts that technology give us. I rely a lot on technology for my own productivity, but I've told technology what I want it to do. So I think the problem that happens is people install these apps. They invest in software, expensive software, like big old lead management, CRM, customer relation management systems. They invest in all this kind of stuff because they think the technology as it's built is going to solve their problem and that's not how it works. If you have decided I'm going to use this technology because it got pitched to you somehow and somebody says, use this, this is gonna solve all of your problems, and you haven't even defined what the problem is or how you want the solution to look like or what you want the experience of delivering that solution to b, if you haven't done that yet, then you're probably not going to pick the right technology. Or you might pick the right technology and still not know how to use it.

So the goal is for I always tell people, I'm gonna use MacGyver this time in a positive way like, work with what you got. Like, we're if you have these Excel spreadsheets for now and your calendar, do that. Do whatever it takes to figure out what you need and break that, like, make that reach its capacity, make it reach its limit in some way because you either need more function or you need it to scale. And then you go shop for the technology that's going to do what you're trying to do, and then you make sure you tell that technology what you want it to do. Because the default settings are who like, who knows who created that? Sometimes that's just a programmer who created that that knows nothing about your business, nothing about your clients that you support. Nothing about how you like to do things, like, for at an emotional or cognitive level right? And so it's being able to say, like, here's the experience I want to deliver to my customers. Here's the experience I wanna have while I'm doing it. What's the technology that's going to support me in doing that. That's the key because technology alone is not gonna solve.

H: You're describing the fact that we actually have a relationship with our business and a relationship with the technology that supports our business. And that's really the opposite of all the sales pages that we see that basically promise us the equivalent of this tool is your soulmate. This tool is gonna satisfy your every need, it's going to meet you in a place where you don't even have to ask. It's gonna know what you need before you do, and it's gonna meet that need. You are gonna have peace of mind, connection. It's like, no you're not. But I also think part of this is our culture where we teach, like, the soul mate, your sole dog, your sole business. And I think we extend that even to the tools that and tactics that we use, like, I'm gonna just keep looking for this one thing that's gonna make everything else easier and maybe even effortless. Uh-uh, t's not available. It doesn't exist.

G: It doesn't exist. I was actually just talking to somebody recently about this where she was just like, oh, gosh, I'm using this one tool, but now I just learned about this other one, and now I wish this one did that and so now I'm thinking and it's she's talking about an entire platform change. She has her whole business set up on this one thing, but because this one other platform does this one other thing, she's like, maybe I shouldn't have done this. And I was like, hon like, this is your tool stack like, you're gonna just have a stack of tools. Like, every entrepreneur I talk to is frustrated by the number of apps and tools they need. It's just reality, let's just accept that that that not we don't want one tool to be able to do all the things well, all the things perfectly.

We want some tools that do things really well, and maybe we're gonna need another tool to do something else really well, and that's okay. But it still comes back to you deciding what does really well actually look like. What does that actually mean and we just it's hard to do as a solopreneur. It's hard to do as a small business owner because you developed your business somewhat intuitively over time right? It was just kinda like what felt right, what worked, and what didn't work but if you weren't super reflective and captured every single one of those insights along the way, which most of us don't right? We're just kinda winging it until we figure it out. We're building the plane as we fly it. If you unless you're being really intentional in capturing that, you're not gonna know exactly how to articulate what it is you do and what you want in a way that allows for, like, productivity tools or even people to come in and support you.

And so it is taking that time to figure out what you want having said that, I have found that sometimes people are just so overwhelmed. Where they're at, that they can't think at that next level, they can't step back and observe. And so in those cases, it's really about building the simplest system possible to put things in front of you so then you can start to see what those patterns are and start to see where the struggles are or start to see where the rub is right so that your brain isn't constantly trying to remember everything. You have something, what I call bonus brain, that's remembering everything for you so your actual brain can be observing and learning and deciding what it is you really want. But it's okay if you don't feel like you have the ability to be at the next level of thinking because the ground level is so freaking crazy right now. It's that's okay, there's ways to get it under enough control but then you can make better decisions moving forward.

H: One of the things that I have been most frustrated by in the last few years is that the loudest voices speaking specifically to female solopreneurs and female small business owners have been presenting the glamorization of self employment along the lines of, Hey, how can you even respect yourself if you're not a hashtag boss babe like, jump into the pool, it's easy. It's fast. It's fun. It's lucrative AF. You are just about gonna make money in your sleep like, why are you still working for the man girl and the reality is that there is no one way to do things. And if you buy a cookie cutter solution, if you love cookies, at some point, you're gonna realize, you know what, this part of it works for me, but I want to burn this part down. And you're like, I didn't really figure this out, you were speaking about the women who figure it out on their own. But there's plenty of us who have literally bought into the belief that somebody out there knows the way because they seem to have a lot of testimonials and a lot of followers and all that. So I'm gonna follow her, and I'm gonna do exactly what she says and I'm gonna end up basically being her.

G: But yeah, big guy doing being exactly what she's doing.

G: Yeah. But these results, these people are not disclosing that they maybe have a stay at home spouse that does all the childcare and the housework and all that stuff. They are not disclosing they have a huge team. They are not disclosing the fact that they spend 100, if not 1,000 of dollars on social media ads every month.

G: Yeah. They're not showing you the nets. They're talking gross. They're always talking in their gross numbers and not the net numbers of how like you said, like, how much they spend on support make that gross number happen.

H: And so how this comes to the productivity shift is that women are starting businesses, trying to grow businesses, trying to sustain businesses without all the information they need about what it actually takes to be in business. So we can't really blame ourselves that we all have FOMO, that we all think, well, she seems to know more than I do because she seems to be further along than I am so maybe I just need to buy the tools or technologies that she's using so I can be further along. And in my experience, and I'd love to hear what you have to say about this, I think the more we do that, the more we distance ourselves from the clarity that we actually need to make the kinds of productivity shifts that you teach. Thoughts.

G: Yeah. Definitely, definitely thoughts. Number one, I was playing around with chatGPT the other day. I was like, hey, punch this up a little bit like, I had written something. I'm like, punch up a little bit. It sounds kinda boring and they're like, hey, boss babes. I was like, oh, no and I was I wrote back to it. I was like, don't ever use boss babe in my copy ever.

H: Don't you dare.

G: Don't you dare and that might just be an age thing on my part, but I think it is because I am so worn out by the influencer type coaches that are out there or the influencer type people that are out there that aren't helping people find their own way of doing things. I think I'm a big fan of models and overall systems that then people get help with figuring out how to make them their own. Because there are, like you said, a lot of challenges that people don't talk about or they glamorize the solution to a problem instead right? Instead of talking about the real problem and the real struggle and, so there's that part of it. Because then you're not acknowledging the reality of running a business, which is there is stuff you're gonna have to just keep doing over and over again.

H: Boring stuff, it's just gonna be boring tedious stuff.

G: Boring, tedious stuff that eventually, hopefully, you could offload to somebody, their virtual assistant or you can hire somebody, like, hopefully right? Like, what I want for all of us is we're doing only the stuff that only we can do, that we ultimately and when you're a solopreneur, you're wearing all the freaking hats. We're in all the freaking hats, so let's not glamorize that. This fit, like, the highlights of it all so much let's be realistic about what this looks like so that people can make choices about whether or not they wanna jump into that. Because solopreneur or entrepreneurship isn't for everybody.

H: Most definitely not.

G: Some people really want stability. Some people wanna be the supporter on a team. Not everybody wants to lead the charge and be like, in front of everything all the time, manage all the things all the time, have all of their the kind of lack of constraints like, where you have to put in your own constraints on time to make sure you're doing the things that you really wanna do. Because people know you run a business and they're like, oh, my sister will call me and be like, what you doing? Like, in the middle of the day, she'll be like, what you doing and I'm like, working. I'm working. I work from, like, 8 to 5 and I just like and it's I know this is just her way of starting a conversation, but I, for the longest time, kinda like took offense. I'm like, I'm working because that's what I do like, what are you doing right now? And so it's just we like, that doesn't get talked about is that people just kind of think that your time is flexible. It's like, yeah it is flexible sometimes right? We and that's part of why I chose this life is the time freedom and that time freedom is a double edged sword.

The running your own business and not having a boss, that's a double edged sword. You are your own boss, that's hard. It's hard to do and so that's where it keeps coming back to, like, having the simplest of systems possible because it's this is hard. Let's keep it easy. Let's not make things so complicated. Let's not expect so much of ourselves because that's the other thing that I think those, those other coaches out there do is they pump it up so much that then we expect that we have to do all of these things and it's just not possible. It's not possible to do all of the things and that is one of the biggest roadblocks I see for women in business is they want to they think they should be able to do it all. It's just not this is not possible unless you're, like you got that little time turner thing that Hermione Granger had in the Harry Potter series where she could, like, turn back time and go do something else since you get multiple versions of yourself running around, like, nobody wants that right? Because then you're not enjoying because part of productivity, again, through my definition, is actually enjoying the life that you currently have. Yes, make progress. Yes, have dreams. Yes, have goals and enjoy this life that's happening right now. This is the only one we get, as far as I know. As far as I'm as far as I'm conscious of.

H: I’m Buddhist, so we might have a disagreement on that.

G: But it's the only one we experience right. Like, we know that we can like, so there could be an afterlife, there could be multiple lives. There could be lots of things but as far as our consciousness, we know this right now.

H: Yes. And I think you're making a very, very important point is so much of the productivity discussion. Productivity conversation is future focused you know it's like, you need to figure this out so that you need to get to this level so that you can do that. And a lot of people I hear say, well, I just need to get to the point where I can hire a virtual assistant. Okay, maybe but why do you need to have a virtual assistant? Well and usually the conversation starts to fall apart because they don't actually know why. And I think it's one of the stumbling blocks I've seen with a lot of people, you've seen with a lot of people. It's part of this, like, glamorization of solopreneurship that you just…

G: Like a badge of honor like, I've gotta be.

H: And do you see how many people are referencing their team when you know damn well, it's just them? And I think, why are we doing this you know, it's like, there's a lot of complications about hiring a VA. But you're right, it is sort of touted as a badge of honor, but I'd love to hear from you. Yes, a VA can help you be more productive.

G: Absolutely. Absolutely.

H: Why do women have such a difficult time getting to the point where they're willing to hire a VA and know what to do with them once they have.

G: Well, I think part of it is, again, how we're socialized like, I think so much of it comes back to the societal expectations put on women. We're not supposed to ask for help, we're supposed figure out how to do it on our own. We compete with each other, we don't collaborate with each other. It's just ridiculous and so there I think that's part of it is it's hard to ask for help. We're supposed to do it on our own, we're supposed to figure it all out right? But I think the other part, and it depends on different personality types. But, you know, part of it is, like, oh, it's just, like, I don't wanna take the time to explain all this. I don't wanna they think it's gonna be harder than it is, and it might be hard at first. But once you get over the hurdle, it's a lot easier and when you have the right kind of VA, they're going to help you figure out how to make it easier. They're going to ask view the questions to help you make that happen.

I know a couple of amazing VA companies where one of them does personality assessments for the business owner and pairs you up with the right VA based also on what it is you actually need. I mean, it's, like, it's so brilliant so they're doing a lot of coaching, and you kind of have this one point of contact, and then they have multiple VAs that can do all the different things, but you have, like, this kind of account executive, right, that you're that is servicing you and helping you as a business owner. But it still is gonna take time for you again to say, what do I want? How do I want things done? What why does that matter to me right? We don't take the time to do that and so then to suddenly have to do it, it feels like a lot of heavy lifting. And that heavy lifting will be worth it. It will absolutely be worth it.

H: There's just no getting away from clarity as the first step like, I always say the first step is self awareness, and the 2nd step is self acceptance. Because yes, sometimes we know this is how I am, and this is who I am, but we wish it weren't so we wish we were a different kind of personality. We wish we had different drivers, different motivators, different ways of doing things. That is a colossal waste of time, as you know, but we get caught up so easily in thinking, I should be able to figure this out. I should be able to do this, and then we try to figure out how to make it so. Instead of recognizing, okay maybe that's what I need to do. That's an option or what else?

G: Or I shouldn't need this, that's the thing. So I used to always say, like, I work with self aware individuals because I want that at least. Give me that because then I will get you to acceptance right? I will get you to acceptance because when we have so, like, you and I, like, boop boop we're, like, same page here. Yes, awareness is awesome, acceptance though, acceptance opens the door. Acceptance, it makes makes progress happen and part of that acceptance is to stop saying I shouldn't need this. And it could be seriously as simple as a second monitor. I remember working with somebody where they were so frustrated, and I was just like and they were like, it's this and this and they were doing like, the stuff they were doing, it was like how they were presenting, you know, and it was like Zooms and all these different things. And I was like, I mean, it just sounds like you use, like, a second monitor and she's like, well, I shouldn't need that and this and that and both. I was like, what do you mean? It's like, well, I can't I'm not making very much money in the business right now, I shouldn't do that. I shouldn't and I was like, it sounds like this is what you need though.

I said, could you just, like, do you have a buy nothing group in your neighborhood? Could you just go to a buy nothing group and see if somebody has a monitor laying around and by the end of the day, she had a second monitor. And she was like, I don't know why I resisted this so much. It seriously can be that simple as I need a second monitor. It could be more complex or more emotionally challenging. Some might need to be like, I need to have this conversation with somebody right? I need to, you know, kinda take off that scab and expose some vulnerability and talk to somebody about this, or I need to ask for help, or I need to look at my finances, and I am not doing that. Whatever it might be to, like, give you or I need somebody to be with me looking at my because it freaks me out. Whatever that is, when you have self acceptance, you stop resisting what you know you need. I'm constantly saying give yourself what you need. Just give yourself what you need, whatever that is. Give it to yourself.

And again, coming back to like systems, build that into your systems. Build your needs as a as a business owner, as a woman navigating life, build that into whatever systems you have in place to support you. Everything about what I do is about helping you figure out what you need, give yourself what you need, and then put simple systems in place to support you in that. Like, our our systems should support us, they shouldn't dictate our lives. They shouldn't make us feel bad. They should support us in what it is we are trying to do. That's their job.

H: It's profoundly transformational to think about productivity in this way. And it at the same time saddens me, Elise, that most women need to be given permission to recognize what they need, accept that they need it and take action to get it. Because of the way we are culturally conditioned to feel shame for acknowledging that we need help.

G: Or for having any needs, for having any effing needs at all like, we should like, we're not supposed to have needs. We're not supposed to be disruptive. We're not supposed to you know what I mean? It's just it's shocking the programming and conditioning we've all gone through. And I have hope for the younger women that I'm seeing out there who are going after it, and they're asking for what they want. And it's just like and I think there's a lot of judgment that's happening of the younger generation. I'm like, sounds like boundaries to me and there's a lot of good boundaries that are happening, you know. It's like, what if that's okay? What if it's okay for us to have boundaries and to ask for what we need? What, just ask like, right? Why not just ask for what we want, ask for what we need, and see what happens.

And it's not like I like, came into the world this way right? Like most coaches, I'm teaching this work because this was the work I needed. This is the work I'm always working on. I'm not teaching this because I'm done. I'm not teaching this because it's like I figured it all out, and I never procrastinate or I never resist a need. No, I'm always working on this, and I like sharing that work and my discoveries and the results from my experiments with other people and helping them run their own experiments and helping them uncover their own insights. So the message that I deliver, hopefully doesn't you know, people don't take it as coming from a like, oh, what's wrong with people? It's like, no, I'm with you, hon like, let's do this journey together.

H: No, I think it's the difference between someone who takes the stance of an expert. Like, I have it all figured out, pay me money, and I'll tell you my secrets versus this shit is hard. If it feels hard for you, that's because it is not because you're a loser. Not because you're the only one that hasn't, like, figured it out. Like, this shit is hard, we need to support each other. This isn't a competition.

G: And here's a possible path forward right? Here's a possible path forward, let's try it. Let's try it and see what happens that's you and I are both part of a really awesome community, called The Expert Up Club with Michelle Mazer. And the reason why I felt so compelled to join that community was because she and I feel the same way about running experiments. There are so many people that come to me. They either say, just tell me what to do and then I laugh. I laugh and I'm like, oh, that's cute. That's not that's not how coaching works or what.

H: That's not it. That's not cute.

G: That's not happening. Or they can tell you every reason why they can't do x, y, and z and I'm just like, oh, tell me more about that and they haven't tried x, y, and z. They've just thought a lot about all the reasons why they can't do x, y, and z right? And if there's a moral obligation, of course, let's not do x, y, or z. But if you if it's that you just haven't tried it yet, could we just try one of them and see how it goes and see what we learn? And we it might not be the right thing or it might just need a little tweak, and it's the perfect thing for now right? And it's so hard to watch how much energy is spent in our brains imagining all the paths and possibilities that we will not take because we are certain they're not gonna work and for me, it's like, just hop on this path. Let's just try this. Let's just try the simplest thing and take the next step and see how that feels. Let's just let's just try it and see what happens. That's my biggest goal is we will just what's it what's the next step, let's try the next step. Let's see how that goes.

H: And changing things from a you must do this, this is the way, proven process, guaranteed results, inside secrets to, hey, I don't know if it's gonna work for you at this stage of your business or not, but let's give it a try. Because I'm a former shrink, and you know that I'm always looking deep into why people do what they do and the conclusion I've come to, Elise, is the reason why women in particular do this is because we are deathly afraid of making mistakes. And I think this idea that I can't take action unless I'm certain. And the only way I'm going to be certain is by doing all the research, considering all the options, making the best choice, and then executing it flawlessly.

It's the perfectionism coupled with feeling absolutely terrified of making a mistake, which is the complete opposite from what you say, which is, Hey, I don't know if it's gonna work for you or not, let's give it a shot. Like, it's okay to make a mistake because you're just experimenting. Like, if you don't conduct experiments, how could you possibly know what's gonna work or not, but we just don't want to make mistakes. Some of the most successful women I've met who don't struggle with this notion, who absolutely set their business up for all kinds of experiments tend to be women who grew up playing competitive sports. I haven't completely figured out the connection, but I think it's because a lot of mistakes are made in sports.

G: You have to just you keep trying right, you keep trying and you have coaches right? You have somebody who's observing and saying, let's try this when they're good, when they have a good coach, they're not saying only do this. They're watching that person's body, they're watching their mentality, and they're saying, okay based on what I know about this person, let's try this approach. Because it's kinda what you're getting at earlier and what I was saying when people say, just tell me what to do, I'm like, no, I'm not like, I can give you some, like, hot tips on productivity, like, specifically, but that isn't going to give you sustained success. Like, that I think that's the difference between a lot of productivity out there is that you have people that came from project management, you have people that came from corporate America. I've been a coach for 14 years, I strike this dorky affinity for systems and tools and process.

H: No. I think being willing to fail, being willing to make a mistake, being willing to feel stupid, incompetent, I think there needs to be a program for all women who have the audacity to start their own business that we must go through, that literally teaches us how to fuck up, how to fail, how to take risks, how to make mistakes without coming to the conclusion that we are big old losers who need to go find a JOB. Because that I think is one of the biggest differences, it's like you give them permission to try things with no guarantee of results, because it is in the trying that they develop confidence in themselves, not in a particular tool or technique.

G: Yes. Yes. Yes. Which, let's face it, makes it hard to market some of the things that we do. Well, I can't promise results like, I can bring you strategies. I can observe patterns and share my insights with you. You are going to have to do something, you're gonna have to try something. You don't get to just dismiss things out of hand again, unless it's like a moral obligation there your moral objection. Obviously, that's different but other than that, you don't get to dismiss things out of hand and not try. Not at least try and I think it does require having the spaces for people to be in that support bravery. I don't talk about creating safe places because I know I can't guarantee somebody's safety like, I just honestly can't. There's all sorts of things I don't know about them that I can't guarantee that. But what I work on doing is creating spaces for people to be brave, and we all need those spaces. I need those spaces too.

I'm creating them for other people, but that's part of me joining another The Expert Up Club with you right? It's like being able to have a space that supports me being in brave in my own stuff. That's why I have a coach that supports me being having a place for me to be brave so I can be brave out in the rest of the world. So as much as, you know, it's about trying and experimenting, sometimes you need the brave spaces or the people who can help you feel brave, whether it's a professional or whether it's, like, a really good business bestie that can they can help you be brave and try things so that you can then learn from what you tried. And that's, like but to me, it's bravery, like, people kinda get focused on, like, I do work for the year stuff with people. And people will say, like, my word this year is fearless and I'm like, oh my god.

No like, that's cute. Do you think you're never gonna be afraid all year long, I obviously, I don't respond that way. I'm way more gentle about it, but I was like, what if we considered something like brave right? Like, that allows you to have fear, you still get to have fear because that's fear is like just a normal reaction for us to have sometimes. But when it matters enough, you're going to be brave in the face of that fear. You're gonna try it anyway, what if we tried bravery instead of fearless.

H: Elise, do you think you're a natural born risk taker because knowing you as I do, knowing your history, I mean, you had to be willing to take a risk, to make a mistake, to fail when you followed your heart, when you started your business, when you started your podcast, when you and I even just reached out to have a coffee chat with each other weeks ago. Like, it takes a willingness to take a risk, to maybe be rejected, to maybe feel embarrassed, to maybe, you know, wish you hadn't done something. Do you think you have that as a natural trait, or do you think you've developed it as a skill? You're laughing, so I have a feeling I know which way you're gonna answer.

G: Well, it's funny, you're you know, you're making me really think about it differently now because my initial when you first asked the question, I was, like, yeah. I was laughing and shaking my head, like, oh, hell no. But when I really reflect back and think about it, I somebody recently said something to me, which was very they were like, you were ahead of your time. I was like, what are you talking about and what they meant was way back in the olden days when I was, you know, as, oh god. I don't remember what my title was. I was, the, oh, the process and policy manager for the online advertising sales department at MSN and Microsoft right? It was, like, this big title for me.

H: Did all that fit on a business card?

G: Like no, no, no, I think it was just I think it was just a process and policy manager. But it was like a definitely an ego kind of building kind of thing, and it should've felt great right? It should've like, it was the pinnacle of my success at Microsoft. I was actually in a spot where I had an awesome boss that was just like, they were just like, I dub sheriff and you go do whatever you wanna do like, he just got me, and I didn't have anybody reporting to me. So I didn't have all that kind of stuff to deal with, and I was miserable. It was I should have been I was, like, the most highly paid I'd been yet, like, all of the things, job security, all of it. I was miserable and looking back, I know it took bravery to chuck all of that and try something different and go into the unknown. And I guess I didn't think about it as risk taking as much as I thought of it as, like, purpose following.

There's something in me that when it doesn't align with, like, my beliefs and who I am and the kind of impact I wanna have on the world, I can't stay in it, so then I will take the risk. Having a business, keeping this business going after the pandemic and all that kind of stuff, it's been a to be honest, it's been a hard year in business for me. It would be a lot easier for me to go find a JOB and have benefits and do all that kind of stuff, and I have to pay for insurance, and I'm just like, that's I don't have it in me to do that. I have something else in me, and I can't ignore it and so I will keep taking these risks and having my own business.

So I think I am a risk taker when there's that rub against who I am and the kind of impact I wanna have in the world. And that's what I want for all of us is for us to be able to know what's the kind of impact you wanna have in the world, and how are you going to do that? What I know is it's hard to know that when the ground level is so crazy and overwhelming. And when we can get some calm there, then you can start to find alignment in your day to day and the impact you're trying to have. And that would that's just always been my goal is pursuing a daily life that I love that also allows me to progress towards the impact I wanna have in the world.

H: So your risks are founded on alignment.

G: Yeah, absolutely.

H: I can't do what doesn't feel aligned for me. I mean, you could do it temporarily.

G: Yeah. Oh, I killed it where I at Microsoft like, it was great. I'm like, I left on my terms like, they people thought I was leaving to have a baby or something, not have kids. But they were just like I remember my boss going like, are you pregnant? And, like, total HR violation, I'm sure but I knew he wasn't meaning it in any particular way, but he was just trying to understand, like, why are you leaving? Like, what's going on and I was just like, god, no, if I was pregnant, I'd stay here and use the benefits like, no, I'm not stupid. I'm like, I don't care about online advertising. That's all there is to it, I don't wanna give this much of myself to online advertising other people care this much about online advertising and they should do it. I don't. I do love policy. I do love plans. I do love process in service of people getting to be who they wanna be in the world. So I'm still a process and policy manager, I guess you could say, but with a whole stint in coaching, and coach training, and coach certification, and all of those things that then started to fill in those gaps for me to bring all of it together in a way that was way, it's way more meaningful to me, way more meaningful.

H: And I think when you consider the fact that women are living longer and working longer, it makes so much sense to figure out what really is aligned with you and to the best of your ability, do that. Because all of the conversations about productivity matter a whole lot less when you're trying to be more skillful at doing something that makes you miserable to begin with.

G: Yes. That was when I created what is now called the GIST program, it was actually right before my divorce process, before my separation. And I had all these really, like, systems in place that were keeping me on track and all this stuff and I was looking like, the stuff with that was in there wasn't stuff that I cared about. So it was like when I got it all in front of me, I could be like, why is this in here, I could see like, I could feel and had to acknowledge the resentment. I had to look at these things and decide if I was going to do them or not. It made a difference to get it out of my head and in front of me to be able to see, like, what have what have I said yes to, is this really what I want? Just even like day to day activity and then stretch that out to achieve that goal.

I don't want that goal. That's his goal. I don't want his goal, it turns out, which led to a freaking divorce right? But, it's so weird because it's like my little productivity system led to the kind of insight that allowed me to change my life for the better. Because what was happening at the day to day was not okay with me, and what that was gonna add up to was not what I wanted. It turns out we wanted different things and it's like and that was and it made it easier. Divorce is hard, but it made it easier to make that decision to go be like, oh, that's what's going on here.

There's nothing wrong with him, there's nothing wrong with me. We don't want the same things and for some reason, it wasn't until I could see all of that in front of me, like, literally in a system. And you're like, oh like, I could feel it inside of me. I knew there was tension. I knew there was struggle. I knew there was loneliness. There's all these other things, but it was like putting that in front of me in this different way. I was like it was like I could step back and look at the whole picture and go, that's what's going on here. Okay, alright, we should be together.

H: Which is why one of the most important factors about the way you help women now is clarity. Without clarity, really none of the none of the strategies, none of the tactics, none of the systems are really actually going to make a difference because you might be climbing the ladder that's against the wrong freaking wall, and you do not need to get better at that.

G: No, to me, the overall like, if we talk about the highest level model that I operate off of in my life and in my business is clarity, communication, and consistency. It's like, how can I get more clear about what's going on? How can I get more clear about what I want? That's what I do for my people. What do you want? What's going on? We gotta get this out of your head and in front of you so we can deal with it and get clear about what is going on here and how you want it to change. Then the communication is, okay, who matters? Who needs to know about this clarity that we just uncovered? Who matters most whether it's because they're going to be impacted or you're gonna need their support. It could be it could be your, you know, financial planner or your accountant. It could be your VA. It could be your partner who's supporting you. It could be your kids and then the consistency is just like, okay. You know what you want, here's who's involved. Now how are you going to leverage your simple systems to support you in consistent action and consistent progress forward. So it's clarity, communication, consistency. But clarity is that's the first step.

H: Because most productivity coaches are really only teaching consistency. How to be more consistent, how to get more done more efficiently and that's kind of asked backwards. Because if you're getting better, faster, more efficient at doing the wrong things, I don't consider that a win. So, most important question because If you've been listening all the way to this minute, I'm sure that you adore Elise just as much as I do. You absolutely have to listen to the Productivity Shift podcast. But for now, I wanna have some actionable impact from this conversation, what is the most effective change that a woman listening right now can make to improve her productivity, the very first thing she can do.

G: Can I just say I love you for taking it to action that is my favorite like, to me, I'm like, what's the point of all of this? We're not gonna try something right, I would say find one safe place to get everything out of your head. Just one, instead of being so scattered, instead of holding it all up here in your brain. Instead of all the notebooks everywhere, find one place because as soon as you pick the one place, it's going to automatically make it more reliable. And you will immediately feel I'm not joking, you will immediately start to feel relief because whatever it was, you know, you only have one place to go.

You only have one place to go. I don't care where it is. It can be just one notebook right now if that's where you're at. It can be an app right now if that's where you are at, you can hit me on social media and I'll share some of my favorite apps. But, like, just pick one place and get everything out of your head because you cannot prioritize what is not known. We gotta get it all in front of you so you can make conscious choices because for me, my weird, weird goal for you my weird, weird goal for women is for you to be just as happy with what's not getting done as you are with what is getting done. And you can only find that when you get it all out of your head and into a place you trust.

H: I wish we were in person instead of separated by miles and the magic of technology because I would either give you a big hug or a high five right now. Getting it out of your head and into a place that you can actually see it is so important. And if you are a verbal processor like me, that place could be a voice memo. You could literally talk to yourself and get it out that way and then take that file and make it into a transcript. I often do that and, man, it's like, I did not realize I had so much going on upstairs.

G: Or what brilliant ideas you have there too like, there's just so much, and we can just if we could just get it out of our heads in the simplest format possible then we can start to make choices about it, and then we can take action. We can make choices about it so that when we take action, like you said, we're taking action and climbing up the ladder on the right tree instead of the wrong one.

H: Love it so much. Thank you, my friend. This was a very, very productive conversation, pun intended.

G: Yay. Thanks so much for having me.