Shownotes
In this podcast episode, we engage in an enlightening discourse with Amy Young, Executive Vice President of Strategic Relations for Old World Spices, as she delineates the intricacies of entering the spice market. We commence by emphasizing the burgeoning interest in barbecue and backyard cooking, which serves as a formidable trend influencing consumer preferences. Young expounds upon the essential narratives and backstories that distinguish successful spice brands in a saturated market, advocating for authenticity and unique flavor profiles. Furthermore, we explore the critical importance of strategic labeling and understanding consumer demographics, particularly in competitive retail environments. Our conversation provides invaluable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs in the culinary realm, offering guidance on how to navigate the complexities of product development and market entry.
Links referenced in this episode:
- paintedhillsnaturalbeef
- oregondungeness
- heritagesteel
- gunterwilhelmknives
- barbecuenationjt
- paintedhillsbeef
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Old World Spices
- Gunter Wilhelm Knives
- Hammerstahl
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
It's time for Barbecue Nation with jt.
Speaker A:So fire up your grill, light the charcoal and get your smoker cooking.
Speaker A:Now from the Turnip Go Burnett studios in Portland, here's jt.
Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to the nation.
Speaker A:That's Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with my co host and co pilot and co commander Leanne Whippen.
Speaker A:And the usual group of suspects hanging around the Turn It Don't Burnet studios here in the Portland area.
Speaker A:Also, this show is broadcast proudly on the USA Radio Networks.
Speaker A:We'd like to thank the folks at Painted Hills Natural Beef Beef the way N intended.
Speaker A:You can check them out at Painted Hills Natural Beef online.
Speaker A:And you don't have a store in your area.
Speaker A:They do some online store stuff, little shipping, special cuts and things for you.
Speaker A:So check those out.
Speaker A:Well, if you've ever wanted to be in the spice business, God help you.
Speaker A:We we've got the lady that today on the show from Old World Spices, Amy Young is going to be with us here and just two seconds and she's going to tell you all the do's and don'ts and whys and why nots in the spice business.
Speaker A:Amy, welcome.
Speaker B:Yes, welcome.
Speaker C:Hello, Jeff.
Speaker C:Hi, Leanne.
Speaker C:Hello.
Speaker B:We just saw you in Texas at the National Barbecue convention and you headed up one of the seminars which was packed house because everybody does want to know.
Speaker B:There are so many people that want to start their own sauces, rubs and what have you.
Speaker B:And you are an expert in the field.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's hear it.
Speaker C:Well, thank you very much.
Speaker C:I was very happy.
Speaker C:This was the third time I've gotten to present at the mbpqa and I like to always try to do something a little different.
Speaker C:So this year was fun to get to.
Speaker C:They asked me to come talk about trends and made it really easy because barbecue and backyard cooking is the biggest trend out there right now.
Speaker A:So if somebody walks in off the street, that wouldn't of course be Leanna or myself.
Speaker A:But if somebody walked in off the street and said, hey, Amy, I've got this rub that's been in my family for 354 years.
Speaker A:How do I get it to market?
Speaker A:And you know, we know it's the absolute best thing out there.
Speaker A:You know, it's got to be top shelf stuff, what do you tell them?
Speaker A:What do you do for them?
Speaker C:Well, first you got to get a little bit of their backstory.
Speaker C:You know, just the fact that they have an old family recipe is great, but I always try to get them to Tell me a little bit more about where's their authority.
Speaker C:They have an old family restaurant that's been around forever that has a good following.
Speaker C:Are they a competition barbecue cook?
Speaker C:There's so many rubs and sauces out there that if I can't build a story to the consumer about why yours is going to stand out or be different or needs to go home and be in your kitchen, I mean, it's just you're kind of a losing battle.
Speaker C:So I always try to start off there, and then you'd be surprised how many people come to me and I'll say, well, do you have the recipe?
Speaker C:Well, yeah, I do.
Speaker C:And then they bring it out and it's like, well, it's a little bit of, you know, this brand seasoning, salt, and then I'm adding some of this barbecue rub.
Speaker C:And then I've got somebody else's, you know, garlic, pepper or everything, bagel seasoning.
Speaker C:They don't really have a recipe.
Speaker C:They're using, you know, a number of different commercial products Now.
Speaker C:My R and D lab is phenomenal.
Speaker C:They can still break that down, but it's just a lot.
Speaker C:It's a lot more work.
Speaker C:So, you know, we're going to have to back up.
Speaker C:We're going to have to validate you a little bit as to why are we going to dedicate our R and D time to you to break this down and do this.
Speaker C:Because we want to make sure if we invest our time, you're investing your time and money that has grounds to be successful.
Speaker C:The other thing people don't think about a lot of times is where they're going to sell their product.
Speaker C:Everybody's going to buy it because it's great.
Speaker C:Well, where do you want to sell it?
Speaker C:Well, I want to be in Walmart.
Speaker C:Okay, well, that's a great end game to go for, but it's probably not your beginning game.
Speaker C:So we try to talk them through what the different channels of sales are, you know, starting locally and trying to grow out, trying to get, you know, gain your following in your own backyard before you try to go to the high expense of taking something nationwide.
Speaker A:I know when I did it, this was.
Speaker A:And we've talked about this, and Leanne's heard me talk about this stuff ad nauseam, I'm sure.
Speaker A:But when I went into the company that was doing mine here in the Northwest, I had it down to regular kitchen measurements, if you will.
Speaker A:You know, half a cup of this, 2 tablespoons of this, whatever.
Speaker A:But then what you were saying is they came Back and they made some, but they broke it down into, like, grams.
Speaker A:And then they.
Speaker A:They gave me a sample and said, is this how it's supposed to taste?
Speaker A:And they were actually very much right on.
Speaker A:So that was fine.
Speaker A:But I can see where somebody that comes in with a.
Speaker A:Well, we do a pinch of this and a little paprika and this and that, and then, yeah, your R D folks in the lab can break that down, but the chances of it being exactly the same are pretty rough.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the other thing to consider is I had this challenge when I first was working with my dad on pig powder, is that there are different types of paprika, different heats of chili powder, cayenne and all.
Speaker B:You know, it depends, I guess, Amy, on the products that you're using and your R and D, you know, tries to.
Speaker B:I mean, do you ask the people for.
Speaker B:Are you using just McCormick or Tones to try to figure out how to get close to that flavor profile?
Speaker C:It's really interesting, Leigh.
Speaker C:And there are so, like you said, so many different paprikas, so many different meshes of black pepper.
Speaker C:And a mesh is the size of the particulate.
Speaker C:So if you picture a window screen, and you can have a window screen with really fine lines and tiny holes, or you can have a window screen with wider holes, wider pattern.
Speaker C:The way they measure the mesh of a black pepper is what size screen it will sift through.
Speaker C:So the higher the number, the finer the pepper.
Speaker C:So a fine black pepper is going to be called a 16 mesh.
Speaker C:And it's really powdery, usually white pepper.
Speaker C:When you find white pepper, it's going to be really powdery like that.
Speaker C:A table grind that you have at home is going to be around a 33 mesh.
Speaker C:And then a coarse would be, you know, maybe a 12.
Speaker C:A cracked might be a 10.
Speaker C:So we can tell a lot of times if you.
Speaker C:If I can ask you, well, does it say cracked?
Speaker C:Does it say coarse?
Speaker C:Are you, God forbid, tell me you're not using a home grinder and trying to twist it and do it yourself, because we'll never get it right.
Speaker C:The more you can tell me about what you're using, the more it helps.
Speaker C:I'm going to backtrack a second to Jeff's comments about the measurements.
Speaker C:All right, the three of us all measure one cup of flour, and I put it on a gram scale.
Speaker C:I guarantee you we'll have three different weights.
Speaker C:Jeff might take a knife and smooth off the top.
Speaker C:Leanne might shake it till it looks even.
Speaker C:I might pack it down a Little bit.
Speaker C:So if somebody is doing kitchen measurements, what I'm often going to tell them is take each of your ingredients, measure it the way you would measure it, put it in a baggie.
Speaker C:If you don't have a gram scale, send it to me and I'll weigh it out.
Speaker C:But here's the next thing.
Speaker C:You know how cheap gram scales are.
Speaker C:It's little kitchen scales.
Speaker C:Everybody uses them now for their diets and watching their macros.
Speaker C:You can go buy a $20 gram scale, measure it out your at home, and then you'll have your own formula.
Speaker C:You'll know how many grams of each product or each raw material that you're putting in there.
Speaker C:So, yeah, really, the more information you can come to me armed with, the more likely we can hit it, you know, quickly, not have a lot of frustration, a lot of back and forth on the other side.
Speaker C:You come to me with an exact formula broken into your grams, broken into your percentages.
Speaker C:My lab can match it.
Speaker C:We'll look at it because we'll compare it side by side with your product and what we make.
Speaker C:And we might say, oh, yeah, that's it, perfect.
Speaker C:Send it to them for approval.
Speaker C:Approval.
Speaker C:And you're going to look at it and say, you know, the garlic's a little sharper than what I was looking for.
Speaker C:Or the color is just not quite there.
Speaker C:Because I always say, nobody knows their own child as well as the parent.
Speaker C:So while it might look like a twin to me, you're going to say, nope, that's not the same.
Speaker C:And that's fine.
Speaker C:We don't have, you know, that's very usual to have, you know, maybe two to three rounds of fine tuning till we get it exactly where you want it.
Speaker B:And don't you have to change it from that point since you're doing bulk?
Speaker B:Doesn't that change the.
Speaker B:Because I know I actually have a couple recipes for pig powder.
Speaker C:All right?
Speaker B:One is my bulk recipe that I do for the restaurant, which is far different.
Speaker B:It took me a long time to tweak it in bulk fashion versus just doing a small quantity.
Speaker B:So do you have to convert that to produce large batches for your bottling?
Speaker C:So what we do basically is get it into 100 gram formula.
Speaker C:So I'm going to send you maybe a one pound sample.
Speaker C:You're going to say, hey, that's it.
Speaker C:Then we take it to our manufacturing facility and we will do a pilot run.
Speaker C:So I'm going to do a small batch, I'm going to pack it the way you want it.
Speaker B:Packed.
Speaker C:If you want it in five pounders, I'll put it in five pounders.
Speaker C:If you want it in a 16 ounce bottle, we will go through and bottle to get the net weight.
Speaker C:Rarely, rarely do I send that to somebody that they come back and say, hey, it wasn't right.
Speaker C:I did just have that happen to me earlier this year.
Speaker C:And it was a color.
Speaker C:It was, you know, it's not as bright as I wanted it.
Speaker C:When we up.
Speaker C:When we, yeah.
Speaker C:Had taken it up to the larger batch, and that's fine.
Speaker C:We know that then we can go back, we can make some more adjustments.
Speaker C:I think the other thing that people don't think about is the order in which you add ingredients into your blender makes a difference.
Speaker C:So we get down to the exact science of when you add each ingredient, how long the blender runs before you put the next ingredient.
Speaker C:And it's all mapped out just absolutely precisely.
Speaker C:Like, if you don't want your.
Speaker C:If you have.
Speaker C:Let's say you have basil, oregano leaves, and you don't want them to be all broken up.
Speaker C:You want to see good pieces of them.
Speaker C:Well, you want that to be the very last thing you add.
Speaker C:And you want to mix it for a very short amount of time.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker C:A lot of people at home will just show, shove everything into the bowl, turn on the beaters and go.
Speaker C:Or maybe your hand mixing, maybe you're not actually using.
Speaker C:We use what we call a ribbon blender.
Speaker C:So it's got, like, paddles.
Speaker C:It's a huge stainless steel, looks like a bathtub that holds up to 5,000 pounds, a bulk weight.
Speaker C:And then there are these little paddles around the outside, and then a ribbon that goes through the center, and it just very gently tosses the product together.
Speaker C:But it's going to be different than you using a spoon and hand mixing or putting it into a food processor or, you know, using a KitchenAid blender at home.
Speaker C:It is going to look a little bit different, but we need to get it to an exact science so we can reproduce the same thing every single time.
Speaker A:Wow, that's great to know that I would fit in that blender.
Speaker C:We can all fit.
Speaker C:We can just fill it up and have a little pool party.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Little paprika.
Speaker A:We're gonna take a break here on Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:We're gonna be back and talk with Amy Young, who is the executive vice president of strategic relations for Old World Spices.
Speaker A:Did I get that right?
Speaker C:You did.
Speaker A:How about that?
Speaker A:And, Leanne, you would be proud of me.
Speaker A:I called Amy yesterday and asked her how to pronounce her name properly because.
Speaker C:Was I right?
Speaker A:Pretty close.
Speaker A:Yeah, close.
Speaker A:Yeah, pretty close.
Speaker A:You did good.
Speaker A:I've been bushwhacked a few times.
Speaker A:Like I was telling her, you know, it's spelled Z, R, T, S, W, Y and it's pronounced Smith because it's all silent.
Speaker A:Anyway, we're going to take a break here on the Nation.
Speaker A:Be back in just a minute.
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Speaker D: January: Speaker A:Hey, everybody, it's Jeff here.
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Speaker A:You'll love it.
Speaker A:I guarantee it.
Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Barbecue Nation here on the USA Radio Networks.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with Leanne Whippen.
Speaker A:We're talking with Amy Young today from Old World Spices.
Speaker A:If you'd like to contact us, very simple.
Speaker A:Go to barbecue nation jt.com and there's a little box there that says you want to send us a message.
Speaker A:The good messages come to me.
Speaker A:The nasty ones I send to Leanne.
Speaker B:And then I send them back to.
Speaker A:You, and then she sends them back to me.
Speaker A:Or you can reach out to us on Facebook or Twitter.
Speaker A:We're all over the map on that stuff.
Speaker A:So if you say you can't find us, you're not trying very hard.
Speaker A:I'll put it that way.
Speaker A:So we're talking about spices, getting them to market.
Speaker A:You know, it was interesting down at the convention, Amy, because I would say half the people sitting in that audience had rubs and spices themselves.
Speaker A:Not all of them were manufactured and distributed by you.
Speaker A:There was a lot of them doing themselves.
Speaker A:Some of them in those panel discussions were doing it the way you talked about doing it locally first and then trying to graduate out to distributors or what have you.
Speaker A:And I know every one of them was proud of their, their, their blends.
Speaker A:They had to be or they wouldn't continue to do it.
Speaker A:But how do you tell somebody it's not very good if in fact it isn't no, but that's.
Speaker A:That's an honest question, because it is.
Speaker A:I've had my stuff on retail shelves and things, and out of the.
Speaker A:We had four blends on the shelves.
Speaker A:Three of them were quite good.
Speaker A:One of them, the comment was, it's just a little too peppery.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:And I didn't.
Speaker A:I wasn't insulted by that.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I wanted to know what people thought.
Speaker A:And so we did a few surveys and what have you, like that.
Speaker A:But when somebody comes in and it's just not very good, how do you tell them?
Speaker A:You gotta up your game a little bit there, cowboy.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So in our barbecue family, you made a comment earlier, before we went on air, about, you know, that you can be kind of blunt sometimes.
Speaker C:I think that people in our industry, our family, appreciate and respect truthfulness, and you just have to deal it out a little bit kindly.
Speaker C:I'm going to give you a case in point.
Speaker C:We just had recently a company from Australia that approached us, and they have this line of products, and they're selling like hotcakes in Australia.
Speaker C:They wanted to know if we were interested in making it here for them.
Speaker C:They had a Whole Foods contract, so it's like they already had business, but it was costing them too much to ship from Australia.
Speaker C:So could we take it over?
Speaker C:Our lab made up the product, and I have to also tell you, these were vegan products.
Speaker C:So, yeah, they were trying to simulate meat flavors, but keep them vegan.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So they wanted, let's say, a bacon flavor without putting any meat or actual bacon in it.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So our lab worked with it.
Speaker C:They made it up, and they all said, oh, my God, this is terrible.
Speaker C:Who did their consumer testing?
Speaker C:How do they know this is going to sell here?
Speaker C:Well, you know, you go to Australia and they like Vegemite.
Speaker C:I don't know a lot of the organs like Vegemite.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker C:So we just had to be honest.
Speaker C:We got on a call, we said, you know, we've tried it internally.
Speaker C:We put it through an internal taste panel.
Speaker C:We know you're going for a bacon flavor, but bacon flavor here might be different than what it is there.
Speaker C:So we talked about different types of bacon flavors.
Speaker C:Can we send you some different examples?
Speaker C:Are you locked and loaded that it has to taste just like bacon this.
Speaker C:And I think they are very appreciative because they didn't want to launch in the States and find that out.
Speaker C:To find out that, oh, my gosh, nobody likes this.
Speaker C:So that, you know, that is an important thing.
Speaker C:The other Thing is, you know, have you.
Speaker C:If you have to over explain to a customer how to use it.
Speaker C:I've had products come in and it's like, oh, well, you know, it's really good as long as you do it the right way.
Speaker C:You have to first do this and soak it in this and then add some of this.
Speaker C:And I'm like, who's going to pay to educate the consumer on how to do that?
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:In the in competition barbecue circuit, here's a good example.
Speaker C:Everybody likes to say I have to layer my flavors.
Speaker C:So first I add a layer of this and I let it sit for 15 minutes and then I do a layer of this.
Speaker C:And, you know, and they're very precise about it.
Speaker C:So I had.
Speaker C:I won't throw out names.
Speaker C:He'll know when he hears this that I'm talking about him.
Speaker C:I had a Texas guy who insisted that he had to have these things like, how are we going to do this?
Speaker C:How do we.
Speaker C:You know, we're going to have to have three bottles and tell everybody to use it in this order.
Speaker C:And I said, you know, bear with us, let's try a test.
Speaker C:So I sent him his three products blended together into one blend.
Speaker C:I said, just try it out.
Speaker C:Do it side by side with how, you know, the exact same meat, exact same amount and everything.
Speaker C:Do a blind taste test with your family and see what they say, and nobody could pick up the difference.
Speaker C:Sorry, sorry.
Speaker C:I just debunked your science on how you have to layer.
Speaker C:But I really think it's the same at the end of the day.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Little footnote here.
Speaker A:I've been down under a few times in my career, and that Vegemite stuff will kill you.
Speaker A:It's just nasty.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Australians.
Speaker A:I know we get people that listen to the pod version in Australia.
Speaker A:I know it's like a national treasure down there.
Speaker A:I respect that.
Speaker A:I tried it a couple of times on my trips, couldn't do it.
Speaker A:And I saw Oprah Winfrey try it on TV one time, tried to do it with Hugh Jackman.
Speaker A:He was so proud.
Speaker A:And he gave her a big bite of Vegemite on a cracker or piece of toast or something.
Speaker A:She damn near threw up there on.
Speaker A:On the satellite feed.
Speaker A:So anyway, moving on, moving on.
Speaker A:Do you know.
Speaker A:Do you know, Amy, when somebody brings you a blend now, and I'm saying, not somebody that's established, but somebody that's new, they walk in the door, they say, here's the stuff, here's the measurements, here's all this, like, that and you mix up a sample batch and you try it.
Speaker A:Do you know when it can be a hit, so to speak, in the wreck?
Speaker A:That's an old record business, you know, Deal.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, when you got a hit.
Speaker C:Jeff, there's so many me too products out there that I think the hit has to come from two levels.
Speaker C:Having.
Speaker C:I don't want to.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:God, I don't want to say a unique flavor because as we talked about in our conference down in Fort Worth at nbbqa, if you get too unique, you narrow your audience.
Speaker C:So I always say, try to go.
Speaker C:My flavor term is comfort with a twist.
Speaker C:Try to go, you know, with something that is somewhat familiar.
Speaker C:I kind of know what this is going to taste like, but.
Speaker C:Oh, you added a new element.
Speaker C:So excuse me.
Speaker C:So instead of it just being a.
Speaker C:Another SPG or another all purpose, is there something unique about it?
Speaker C:We can call out that people will go, oh, my gosh, I love key lime.
Speaker C:I never thought about putting key lime in my chicken rub.
Speaker C:You know, the other thing is the story, the story behind the product, the authority of the person presenting this to the public is going to be the first thing that gets you off the shelf.
Speaker C:I mean, the label has to say, I know what I'm talking about.
Speaker C:I've got great experience doing this.
Speaker C:You're going to love my product, and here's what it's going to taste like.
Speaker C:Well, and also, what's it going to go on?
Speaker A:We'll be back with Amy Young from.
Speaker A:Where are you from, Amy?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, you're from Old World Spices.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We'll be back in just a minute.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody, it's JT and I have eaten.
Speaker A:If you've ever looked at me, you know that.
Speaker A:But I have eaten seafood all over the world, and I can tell you there's no place better than here in Oregon and our Dungeness crab.
Speaker A:If you want to learn more about Oregon Dungeness crab, just go to oregondungeness.org find out how to cook it, how to catch it, where to buy it, and the sustainability of what they're doing there in the Oregon Crab Commission.
Speaker A:Check it out.
Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Barbecue Nation here on the USA Radio Networks.
Speaker A:Find us anywhere on the web, all your favorite social media platforms and that were there.
Speaker A:We're doing something probably not supposed to be, but we are.
Speaker A:We'd like to thank the folks again at Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker A:And that's also Beef the way nature intended.
Speaker A:Also, we'd like to thank David Malik and his crew over at Gunter Wilhelm Knives.
Speaker A:Did I say that right this time?
Speaker A:Leanne Gunther.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Gunter Gunther.
Speaker B:It's Gunther Meathead.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:It's winter.
Speaker A:Anyway, Leanne uses them.
Speaker A:I use them.
Speaker A:A lot of people use them.
Speaker A:If you're serious about good instruments of the trade in your kitchen, go to Gunter WilhelmKnives.com okay, now we're back with Amy.
Speaker A:Sorry about all that, but we had to do that.
Speaker A:Leanne brought up something and you were talking to, as we were closing out the last, last segment, Amy, about labeling.
Speaker A:You know, and I can only go off my own experiences on this, but I know that in labeling is so important.
Speaker A:I, I did this rub called Happy Camper, Kid Spice.
Speaker A:And we put a picture of my daughter.
Speaker A:Of course, I was in the cowboy world in those days.
Speaker A:And we had this picture of my daughter.
Speaker A:She was little.
Speaker A:She had had barbecue sauce all over her face, big cowboy hat.
Speaker A:It was cuter than I'll get out.
Speaker A:But it worked.
Speaker A:It worked very well for that.
Speaker A:The other stuff were those labels.
Speaker A:I was never really happy with those labels, but the kids label I was happy with.
Speaker A:Maybe I was because I was dad.
Speaker A:But how important is that to, to go in?
Speaker A:Because when I was doing this, you know, you had McCormick and you had Shilling and they took up two shelves or more.
Speaker A:And so, you know, you knew the, the red and white cans or the bottles or whatever they were in the McCormick packaging and stuff like that.
Speaker A:But how important is that to people for sales?
Speaker C:The labeling is very important, Jeff.
Speaker C:But let's also back up a little bit and talk about what channel you're going to sell to because you have different consumers shopping different places.
Speaker C:And you have to know your consumer and what they're looking for when they walk in.
Speaker C:If you are Talking about the McCormick and the Weber, you're probably talking about grocery.
Speaker C:You're talking Walmart, Kroger, Publix, okay?
Speaker C:That's where the majority of their products are sold.
Speaker C:You're not going to find McCormick's in a high end barbecue aisle.
Speaker C:Ace Hardware is not going to carry McCormick or Weber.
Speaker C:Barbecue Galore is not going to carry McCormick or Weber.
Speaker C:Okay, so let's talk about who's shopping.
Speaker C:When you are competing with somebody like McCormick and Weber, unfortunately, you're going to be competing on price and you're going to have that shopper who is probably.
Speaker C:Well, you're going to have one or two things.
Speaker C:Again, back to consumer studies.
Speaker C:We've done before.
Speaker C:If it's the woman shopping in a Walmart, she has a list of groceries, she has a cart full of things she has to get.
Speaker C:She's going to go down the spice aisle.
Speaker C:Your label might get your attention, but she's looking at her cart, she's looking at her budget.
Speaker C:Is she really going to be able to afford to pick up, you know, the more expensive products?
Speaker C:She might.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:But you're going to appeal more to the man shopping in Walmart who we know is an event shopper.
Speaker C:He knows he's going to barbecue.
Speaker C:He's got to get meat, charcoal, tin foil, seasoning and sauce.
Speaker C:So he is going to take a little more time.
Speaker C:This is an event.
Speaker C:He wants these ribs or this brisket or this pork fat to turn out perfectly.
Speaker C:So he's going to look at the labels more.
Speaker C:He's not going to be as cost conscious when he walks in there.
Speaker C:Yes, it's, there's, there's a number of different things that are going to make you successful or not successful.
Speaker C:So let's go the other way.
Speaker C:Let's talk about the barbecue channels where.
Speaker C:Or the, the retail channels where I say the barbecue hobbyist is shopping.
Speaker C:This is going to be anybody selling your grills.
Speaker C:Your barbecue equipment could be hardware sporting good outdoor living, pool and patio.
Speaker C:You know, all those places are going to attract a very different shopper.
Speaker C:So when you get in there now, they are.
Speaker C:I'm going to use Ace as an example.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:A large Ace store might have 200 different SKUs of barbecue rubs in their shelf because they are really trying to present themselves as backyard central for barbecue people.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:But now you're in there with all the experts.
Speaker C:How are you going to stand out?
Speaker C:It's back to who are you?
Speaker C:What is your identity?
Speaker C:What is your story?
Speaker C:It is colors.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:And color trends are going to come and go.
Speaker C:Fifteen, 20 years ago, all the barbecue stuff had funny little characters, had very busty pigs that had crazy cows that had, you know, chicken, driving a tractor, whatever it would be.
Speaker C:And then they would have names that were.
Speaker C:Would make you giggle or maybe make you blush.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:True barbecue has gotten so much more sophisticated that a lot of those labels now you look at and you think that looks like somebody made it in the garage.
Speaker C:It doesn't give the same authority.
Speaker C:You don't want something that looks like somebody's making it in their kitchen at home.
Speaker C:You want something that has more of that.
Speaker C:Guarantee that this person has experience, they know what they're doing.
Speaker C:They're professional.
Speaker C:Not professional to McCormick level, but a professional in the barbecue world.
Speaker C:Okay, so class it up.
Speaker C:We've also found some retailers won't bring in the cheeky names.
Speaker C:I'll use one of my own products as an example.
Speaker C:We have a Memphis Rub and Sauce, Memphis Style Rub and Sauce we came up with years ago at the request of a retailer because I wanted something Carolina, something Memphis, something Texas, something Kansas City.
Speaker C:So we try to give them all the funny names.
Speaker C:And our Memphis sauce was called Pig's Ass and the Fabulous Sauce.
Speaker C:Okay, great vinegar, you know, kind of style.
Speaker C:But when it went to the taste panel at Lowe's, Lowe's loved it.
Speaker C:They wanted to bring it in, but they said, you got to change the name.
Speaker C:We can't put ass on our shelves.
Speaker C:So they had us, same product, same label, but we had us change it to Booty, so it's Booty Sauce and Booty Rub instead of Ass.
Speaker C:And then they felt that wasn't going to offend their shopper.
Speaker C:So, you know, it's just something to keep in mind.
Speaker C:You have to really.
Speaker C:We're putting a business plan together in a strategy that's more than just, is my label going to be bright and jump out?
Speaker C:You've got to know your consumer.
Speaker C:You've got to know the channel you're taking it to.
Speaker C:You've got to have a plan.
Speaker C:And then your label can be designed around that.
Speaker C:If you're starting with your label design and then trying to figure out what to do with it, I think you're behind the eight ball.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:Because if you look at a lot of online shopping for sauces or rubs, blends, whatever you want to call them, a lot of them have, like you said, little, little cheeky names, if you will, you know, cowboy, kick ass, whatever, like that on.
Speaker A:I've seen that.
Speaker A:I don't even know if that stuff's still around.
Speaker A:But they used to be a sauce line that they did that with.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And even though we've become more sophisticated to a certain degree and that on the.
Speaker A:On the flip side of that, Amy, the.
Speaker A:You know, the Internet is the wild west, so people get away with saying and naming stuff online that they normally wouldn't.
Speaker A:How do you find a balance for that?
Speaker A:Because not every small proprietor can just recreate a label and go through that process.
Speaker A:It can get expensive, especially when you're going to be, you know, kick out a couple thousand bottles a month or whatever you're doing.
Speaker A:So how do you find that balance?
Speaker C:Well, Another thing you've got to keep in mind, Jeff, for longevity of a brand, you're going to be doing label refreshes about every five years, okay.
Speaker C:Because you do want it to look fresh.
Speaker C:You're not changing the product and you're not doing a complete overhaul.
Speaker C:Now, I've seen brands that were young do a complete overall overhaul, and it really did help them and it helped boost their sales.
Speaker C:I gave as an example, and I know he's fine with talking about this Pawboys, Todd John's product, he redid his labels about three years ago, and he saw a 57% increase in sales when he did his new label.
Speaker A:Wow, that's great.
Speaker C:Now, that was a complete overhaul.
Speaker C:I don't think you always have to do a complete overhaul, but sometimes there's small changes.
Speaker C:You might have initially designed your product with your logo being the prominent, you know, number one call out.
Speaker C:It's taking up what I'm going to say is the most real estate on your label.
Speaker C:And now you're established, you know, and.
Speaker C:And maybe what you need to do now is understand that people are looking for flavor trends so you can change and make your logo smaller and make your flavor call out bigger.
Speaker C:So you're.
Speaker C:As you learn and you educate yourself, you know, there's small changes you can do to make it more appealing, to get your message across without having to completely recreate yourself.
Speaker A:If you've got a new product, how tough is it to get into, say, the stores like Lowe's or Ace Hardware, and then the local, you know, like a grocery chain, maybe Kroger or Walmart, something like that?
Speaker A:Those are the big guys.
Speaker A:But how tough is it to get your product on their shelves?
Speaker C:It's very tough.
Speaker C:It's very tough.
Speaker C:So let's take the hardware, the Ace, the lows.
Speaker C:They do a category review one time a year.
Speaker C:So, and I'm going to throw out approximate times here.
Speaker C:But let's say that Lowe's does a category review for their barbecue section in July.
Speaker C:They'll come back to us in December and say, here's what you've selected.
Speaker C:It will take a year before they actually then put it on the shelves because they're going to be redesigning their whole set for the barbecue area.
Speaker C:They're going to be redoing their header signs.
Speaker C:There's, you know, product in their warehouses that has to be moved through.
Speaker C:So you're literally saying, from the time I show it to you, we.
Speaker C:The 18 months before it actually goes into your store.
Speaker C:Okay, wow.
Speaker C:The way we got started in this business was actually at Bass Pro.
Speaker C:So one of our salesmen had walked into Bass Pro, asked if they'd be interested in working with us on private label products.
Speaker C:So he went in and asked if they wanted to work with us.
Speaker C:And the buyer said, you know, I don't really see having a Bass Pro barbecue rub going, but we are doing pretty good with barbecue rubs.
Speaker C:We got about 18 SKUs.
Speaker C:Because the funny thing is I see these cases coming in and the one common thing I see is you guys are the packers on all of these.
Speaker C:So he said, why am I going out to place single invoices for two cases here and there, you know, with 18 different guys, when my manager could just come to you and order it directly to, you know, the other people that you've been working with?
Speaker C:Are they going to get mad?
Speaker C:Are you going to lose them?
Speaker C:It's probably worth the risk because Walmart's big.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But Walmart will kick you to the curb if they don't sell it too.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:We got to take a break.
Speaker A:We got to take a break, but we're going to come back with Amy from Old World Spices and Leanne from Florida and me sitting around here listening to this, which is great stuff.
Speaker A:So please stay with us here on the Nation.
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Speaker A:Hey, everybody, J.T.
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Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Welcome back To Barbecue Nation here on the USA Radio Networks, I'm JT along with Leanne Whippen and Amy Young Today from Old World Spices, Amy is going to stick around for the Spanish Inquisition part of this show that is after hours, so show me that.
Speaker A:A good part about that, Amy, is that doesn't air on the radio, that just airs on the Internet.
Speaker A:So people have to want to listen to that.
Speaker A:And unfortunately, a lot of people do want to listen to that.
Speaker A:You were talking about getting on store shelves and working with a distributor, and I.
Speaker A:And if I bore you with this, I'm sorry, but when I was doing this, I had to stop doing it because I didn't have enough time.
Speaker A:I was trying to do it all myself.
Speaker A:I had quite a few stores that were carrying it, mostly here in the Northwest, but they would call and say they would what I call broken cases.
Speaker A:I don't know if that's the proper terminology anymore, but they would want six bottles of this and three bottles of this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:And then they'd want it delivered.
Speaker A:They may call you on Thursday afternoon at 4 o', clock, but they'd like it before noon on Friday.
Speaker A:So because the weekend's coming, coming like that.
Speaker A:And I just couldn't make that work, so I, I stopped doing it.
Speaker A:But that's.
Speaker A:I think that's a part of working with a distributor.
Speaker A:A full service deal like you've got that is really good.
Speaker A:Because if you're trying to do it out of your backyard or if you're just trying to ship, you know, from the post office, two bottles every couple days, that's a long road that way.
Speaker C:Jeff, I think what a lot of people don't consider is the value of your own time, say, oh, well, I can do it.
Speaker C:It doesn't cost me anything.
Speaker C:So, you know, I've had people, when we talk about our royalty program and our distribution, and I'll say, well, you know, you're going to get 15% royalty.
Speaker C:So every bottle I move, I'm going to write you a check at the end of the month for 15%.
Speaker C:15%?
Speaker C:That's ridiculous.
Speaker C:When I saw it myself, I made 50%.
Speaker C:And I think these people don't know business very well because they're not netting 15, they're not netting 50%, they're probably not netting 4%.
Speaker C:When you take off your time, your gas, your money has been tied up.
Speaker C:If you're taking out loans or buying things on your credit card and paying interest, all your own personal overhead, trying to do all of this.
Speaker C:At the end of the day, if you have a good accountant, they're going to say, you know What?
Speaker C:You netted 4% profit this year.
Speaker C:Well, if you can find a partner who's going to help you do this, and you have zero investment, and at the end of the year, you know you're going to have a check for 15% of all of your efforts.
Speaker C:I'll make a 15% return any day, any place.
Speaker C:You just tell me where to put my money and I'll go do that.
Speaker C:You don't even have to put any money down because we're doing it for you.
Speaker C:What we need on the other end, though, is a partnership.
Speaker C:I can't bring somebody in who's just going to sit on their butt and wait for their check to come in.
Speaker C:I look for people to partner with who are aggressively out there selling and promoting themselves.
Speaker C:Are you teaching classes?
Speaker C:Are you traveling and doing contests?
Speaker C:Are you busy on social media?
Speaker C:If you're getting.
Speaker C:Not everybody gets TV appearances because we all don't look like Leanne or cook like Leanne.
Speaker C:But I always say, never say no to an opportunity to get yourself out there, to get yourself known, because I can make the products and I can maybe get it on the shelf for you, but then the consumer has to want to buy your product.
Speaker C:So the more you're promoting, the more you're doing recipes and cooking videos and just connecting to people.
Speaker C:People will buy Leanne's product because they like Leanne.
Speaker C:They feel like they know her.
Speaker C:They've seen her, they've watched her on tv, they've cheered her on.
Speaker C:She is her brand.
Speaker C:Which we're going to work on that one, Leigh.
Speaker C:We're going to work on the Lean.
Speaker C:You know, another.
Speaker B:Another.
Speaker B:I'm sorry to interrupt.
Speaker B:Go ahead.
Speaker C:No, no, no.
Speaker C:I'll talk on and on.
Speaker C:Go ahead.
Speaker B:Another very important thing, and I had this problem in the past just with my barbecue team back in the day, is trademarks.
Speaker B:I started investing in a logo and my team as Hickory Chicks Barbecue and found out somebody had trademarked it afterwards.
Speaker B:Very small company.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter.
Speaker B:The trademark was out there.
Speaker B:And fortunately, I found out soon enough, before I invested more in my logo and branding to switch it up.
Speaker B:And that's when I changed it to Wood Chicks, because I want it to be something close.
Speaker B:But I think people need to understand the investment of a trademark is well worth in business down the road.
Speaker B:I think you can attest to that.
Speaker B:And we kind of.
Speaker C:Of.
Speaker B:I think we talked about this a Little bit in Texas.
Speaker B:So if you could just shine some light on that.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker C:So there are trademark and patent attorneys that are worth their weight in gold.
Speaker C:If you really want to invest in a brand and a product and get it out there, you can go online and do your own trademark search.
Speaker C:There's just the US government.
Speaker B:I think it's USTP.gov or something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:If you just go research.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:US government trademarks, you can find it.
Speaker C:And then they'll have a little search field so you can put in a name and it will come up and tell you anything.
Speaker C:That's close.
Speaker C:Anything.
Speaker C:Let's say just take wood chicks.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:There might be a wood chick nail file.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:That's not going to be in conflict with the food product.
Speaker C:So when you apply for a trademark and a lot of people don't know this, usually you're covering a food category or a. I'm sorry, a consumer good category.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:So you can't get it to, you know, just blanket cover everything.
Speaker C:So they're going to look to see if that's a conflict.
Speaker C:Now if you are a celebrity and you have done, you've trademarked your name or a nickname, a screen name, something that you go by that's a little different.
Speaker C:So Leanne, somebody couldn't take your name and go out and try to.
Speaker C:Try to.
Speaker C:They have a Leanne bubble bath if you trademarked Leanne.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So, but this is where it's good to have an attorney come in because they can look at it.
Speaker C:Also hard to trademark a product that's not actually on the market yet.
Speaker C:So the attorneys will tell you, yes, it's taken or no, it's not.
Speaker C:You can apply for it, but you better have it in the works because they're going to want pictures of it.
Speaker C:It you have to show proof that you're actually doing something with the name.
Speaker C:That keeps somebody from just going out there and grabbing a bunch of names that, you know, just to hide them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it's very important to protect yourself on that because I one thing I have found that people are not very creative, are original.
Speaker A:You know, they don't like Leanne did wood chicks and stuff.
Speaker A:I mean, she obviously put some time and effort and thought into that.
Speaker A:Most people will.
Speaker A:A lot of people, I shouldn't say not most people, but they will like, oh, yeah, Bob's Barbecue.
Speaker A:My name's Bob.
Speaker A:So let's barbecue.
Speaker A:You know, and that's it.
Speaker A:And there's how many Bob's Barbecues are there out there, you know, 453,000.
Speaker A:You know, so you.
Speaker A:You've gotta.
Speaker A:You've on the business side of things, if you're gonna take it seriously.
Speaker A:Seriously, like you said, you need to trademark that stuff, and I'm living proof of that.
Speaker C:That so?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, and your.
Speaker C:Your comments about, you know, and brought this up earlier as well.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The business.
Speaker C:This is a business, you guys.
Speaker C:You need a business plan.
Speaker C:If you think you're just gonna make up something in your kitchen and put a cute little funny name on it and throw it out there and make a million dollars, you're probably just wasting your time and money.
Speaker C:But it'll be a fun little hobby.
Speaker A:We gotta get out of here.
Speaker A:Amy Young from Old World Spices, the executive vice president, I should say back there, we thank you, and it was so much fun.
Speaker A:And like I said, you're gonna stick around for the after hours and.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Excellent as usual.
Speaker A:And so for Leanne and I and Amy, I want to bid you adieu.
Speaker A:Have a good weekend.
Speaker A:Go out there, do some barbecuing, and remember our motto here.
Speaker A:Turn it, don't burn it.
Speaker A:We'll see you next week.
Speaker A:Barbecue Nation is produced by JTSD LLC Productions in association with Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserved.
