Episode 2

At Moorhouse, shining a light on what it's like for women working in and being consumers of the energy and utility sector. We are exploring some of the challenges and opportunities across industry. We hope you find this episode positive and encouraging, but we do not want to shy away from challenging experiences. We want to leave you as listeners with some pragmatic suggestions to take away when considering how to support women in energy.

We will focus on women in the energy sector, emphasising the importance of female representation across all aspects of the industry and in roles from policy setting to field equipment installation. In this episode, we want to explore the imbalance of women in STEM roles and what that means for the industry and consumers.

00:50

I'm delighted that we have two guests with us today, Smitha Pitrickat and Ro Crawford. Smitha is the Client Delivery Programme Manager at Elexon on the Market-wide, half-hourly settlement programme. She studied mechanical engineering at University and has spent her career working across the globe.

More recently, she spent the last decade working in the energy industry and we are lucky to have her alongside Moorhouse on Elexon’s Market-wide, half-hourly settlement programme as the Client Delivery Programme Manager. Before Elexon, Smitha held a number of project management roles across the energy and finance sectors.

Also with us today, we have Ro Crawford, Senior Business Advisor at CGI. Ro's worked in the energy industry for almost 25 years, with 17 years at British Gas leading complex system implementation and transformation programmes, finishing her time there as Director of Portfolio Governance.

Ro then spent six years at Smart DCC, first as the Chief Delivery Officer and then as the Chief Transformation Officer.

Welcome both of you to our episode today. I'd love to hear from you both first on your experience as a woman in energy.

Ro, I'll start with you.

[Ro] Thank you. So thank you for having me. It's really lovely to be here. So my journey in energy began, as you just said, Helen, many years ago in Centrica. And I actually didn't choose energy as an industry.

I started off at the AA, bizarrely, because Centrica owned the AA back in those days. And then within a really short period of time, moved over into the energy side. And what kept me at Centrica for 17 years was the massive diversity in terms of opportunities there. And being able to, well, 17 years sounds like a long time. I don't think I stayed in the same job for more than 18 months or maximum two years. And what Centrica did for me was really support me in developing myself and my career in lots and lots of different areas. So, programme delivery, technical delivery, offshoring opportunities, operational opportunities and it gave me a massive depth and breadth of understanding into the industry as a whole and that largely is why I've stayed in the energy industry.

It isn't just a ‘can you sell gas or electricity’ or ‘can you sell solar panels’ and look at energy efficiency. It's so broad and so deep that there's actually something for everybody is what I would say.

My time at DCC when I moved into the DCC, what really resonated with me there and probably everybody that works in the smart metering industry and probably Smitha you're picking this up in market-wide half hourly settlement is people's genuine commitment to the cause really driving energy efficiency and really understanding that actually energy is the last industry to be digitised through smart metering and therefore the opportunity that that brings from an energy efficiency, carbon neutralisation, all of that good stuff that we hear about is really really tangible and really real and you know people - more than just the job - they felt the cause and they really wanted to be in it and that's why I've stayed in the energy industry for the last 25 years.

[Helen] Thank you and then Smitha I'd love to hear from you about your experience as a woman in energy.

[Smitha] Thank you Helen and thank you for having me. It's a delight to be part of this wonderful programme, as you know how energised I am about the idea of women in these sectors. It's really really exciting. As for where I came from I, similar to Ro, I ended up in energy. I didn't plan to come into energy. I had taken a bit of a break. I was working as a consultant with a delivery organisation and all my experience at that point was with the financial sector, so I was had worked for it with American Express and Barclays as an engagement manager. So I used to manage multiple delivery teams. But when I took a break, I desperately needed a job which was doable. After a five-year break, I wanted an easy way in.

And I applied for the first job I could see of. And that was Xoserve. And very luckily, I ended up in the biggest programme at that point in time, Nexus. It was a fascinating experience. I'd always thought it was an entry step.

I thought I'll be there for a year and I'll move on. But I stayed. I stayed for about eight and a half years. And I'd echo Ro, the amount of the different types of roles within the programme delivery space that I got to do there was absolutely fascinating.

And more than anything else, it is that personal commitment. And I think for the first time in my career, I could see a real difference being made for the consumers. So in the financial sector, it felt like, you know, it was all private banking and investment banking. So, you know, it's all these high net worth individuals was kind of gaining from the work I did. But here I felt I was really making a real difference to, you know, Mrs. Miggins was waking up wondering about her gas bills or her energy bills. And that made a real difference. And then I would look at my programme costs, back of my mind, it always resonated that this really makes a real difference. If we keep it down and if we deliver in the most efficient way, it does make a difference to people's bills.

And then it's more than just that. It's all the innovation that makes a real difference with smart metering, as you said, Ro, and now with half hourly, it's been such a journey. But at the end of the day, I feel like I've done something that helps.

[Helen] That's great. There's a real common theme there around the diversity of opportunity and the very real impact we have on consumers as well as the opportunities for innovation, I think. So that's great to hear.

I'm keen to know if in both of your experiences you believe gender has made a difference to your journey in the sector. I'll come back to you first, Ro.

[Ro] Yeah, thanks, Helen. So, I've been reflecting on this, and my view is obviously no because I've never felt that my gender has held me back. But if I look around the edges and I look at the environment that I operate in and the more senior you get in a role, the more often you're sat around a table where you're the only female and everybody else is male. I don't believe that's held me back, but I can see how that can be intimidating and that different people in that environment will behave in different ways. I think I'm naturally, I've worked within a male-dominated industry for my whole career and before energy I was in the military, which was even more male-dominated.

So it's something I've probably become very resilient to and therefore don't maybe notice it in the way that, or become acclimatised to it and accustomed to it and therefore I don't notice it really. It doesn't mean that's right.

[Helen] No, it's interesting and I know before we started recording the podcast today, we were also sharing that the two of you are bringing significant experience in the industry and in your careers and perhaps also the lens of seniority and in interactions that you have might mean your experience is difficult, perhaps more junior female colleagues in the industry.

Smitha, what about yourself?

[Smitha] Very similar to Ro, actually. I don't think I've been held back. But again, it might be a symptom of the fact that I've always been in a very male-dominated space as a young girl doing mechanical engineering. Not many women there, even in the consulting space when I first joined. There were women, but similar to what you said, Ro. When you start off, you had a lot more women. And then as you grow, you see that reducing. So there is, well, probably not the glass ceiling, per se, but you can see how it gets more and more difficult for women to make those steps. I've been very, very lucky. Or perhaps I've never felt I've been held back, so I haven't been held back.

But I can see how easy it is for people to feel intimidated and not take those steps. And we were talking at the beginning, weren't we, before we started recording, that is there an innate feeling that women may not feel as hungry? Because of the structural, the systemic. The societal, conditioning.

[Ro] I was just reflecting. I think I've also been very, very fortunate in my career that the sponsors and the mentors I've had have always been very supportive males. And that goes back, as we said earlier, my husband has been massively supportive and just gone, ‘do what you want’. But equally, when I was at Centrica, my line management in a number of cases, I had brilliant male sponsors who were willing to put me forward, had confidence in me. And I always kind of took whatever opportunity came and thought, well, if they've got confidence in me, then I've got confidence in myself. So there's a lot to be said about who supports you, who sponsors you, and how they help you build your confidence. And if you've got great males doing that in a great working environment, that's so powerful.

[Smitha] I couldn't agree more, absolutely. And I've been lucky with that with both male and women mentors, people who really believe in you, and that makes a huge difference, because you're not self-doubting then. You know there are people who believe in you, so you go ahead, you know, fearing failure less maybe, and it really helps. So I try, I try to instill that in, you know, women who reach out to me, and I really try, but I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I was very lucky with my husband. When I took a break, he was like, are you sure you want to do it? He was worried that I'd get bored, and that really helps knowing that the people who were there to kind of, you know, support you in anything you decide. I agree with you. It's so, so true. So essential.

[Helen] Great, thank you both. So now I want to talk about women specifically in STEM jobs in the industry. So just sharing a bit about myself. I'm a People and Change Director at Moorhouse, and my bread and butter is change management and working with people and one of those more softer skills that I've actually bought from a teaching background before I went into consulting. And I was reflecting after our first episode in this podcast series and Smitha, we were talking about how you see a lot of female representation typically in change management, stakeholder engagement departments in the industry and women are often more likely to take on roles in those teams. We know women are underrepresented in both the energy sector as a whole but particularly in STEM roles. So, a couple of stats, women account for only 29% of the STEM workforce and only 28% of STEM positions in the renewable energy sub-sector are held by women compared with 45% of administrative jobs.

I find that quite maybe not unsurprising but very stark when you look at the representation. I'm interested in your experiences. Smitha, coming from an engineering background and Ro especially in the transformation roles that you've held where there would have been a technical element.

Any advice and practical tips you've got for navigating technical roles in a very male dominated environment? Firstly, do you see that imbalance of women in feeling change and transformation versus technical roles?

[Ro] Yeah, I definitely do.

[Smitha] Definitely. I mean, if you look, take a developer team, a team with a bunch of developers, it's more likely than not that you'd find all the men are the developers. The women representation could be in the BA space or maybe in the testing space. I've not seen many women who naturally seem to go there. Now I started my career as a developer so I feel quite passionately about it. I've seen a lot of my colleagues at that time, really, really great women who did a great job but somehow as we rose up, the women, myself included, moved into the management space and the men, a lot of them stayed in the technical space. And I don't know why actually but there is definitely an imbalance.

[Helen] Okay, thank you. And, Ro, what about yourself?

[Ro] Yeah, there's an imbalance. I think I kind of fell into the technical side of delivery, if I'm perfectly honest, but I love it.

I love the structure of it. I love the innovative side of it. I love the things that it can achieve. But I kind of understand why people get scared of it and think that's just so hard. And there's almost a bit of a myth to how complicated it is, how difficult it is, how impossible it is. And people just kind of, I think there's got to be some form of encouragement that kind of blows the myths out of the box. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to be able to work in a technical space. There's loads of different roles. There's loads of different opportunities. It is quite straightforward. And don't be afraid of it. Be excited by it. To your point, earlier Smitha, you know, really feeling like you're contributing to society making a difference and really protecting the environment is so powerful and not scary at all, but actually really, really exciting.

[Smitha] I couldn't agree more, and I can't help wonder if women aren't being shown those opportunities. So, you know, I remember having these conversations back when I was with Corella where we spoke about how do we get to the grass roots? So, you know, how do you reach out to the 15- and 16-year-olds while making a decision which path to take to kind of open it up and say, look, these are all the things you could do if you go down a technical route, because that's really fascinating.

[Helen] Ro, something you said about the myth-busting. I wonder if it might be harder for women entering the industry to map through the impact they have in those more technical roles, you know, the overall vision or mission statement of the organisation. I know another challenge I would have had myself where I considering a STEM root would definitely have been the lack of available role models. Did either of you have role models in your career who've worked in STEM?

[Smitha] Before I took this base, my role model was my dad, which is why I ended up doing mechanical engineering. So not a woman, but when I went into my first job, my first director was a woman. She was so effective and so powerful and really technical. And I think seeing somebody like her, I felt like, oh, I want to be her when I grow up. I've had some really good role models in Xoserve, Corella, really, really powerful women. And all of that really makes you think there's nothing a woman can't do.

[Ro] I think it goes back to something you just said, Smitha, when I was a child, I was told the world's your oyster, don't put any limitations on yourself. That was my platform. There's been different role models, actually really good and really bad.

I look at Tara McGeehan, who is the president of CGI UK in Australia, who I've known for many, many years. She's a brilliant role model. She's driving great innovation. She's driving a great consultancy. Very, very technical, very, very knowledgeable and really, really supporting women in STEM. We need more of those people and the more of this that I can do to drive that forward and support the next generation through, the more I will do because I just think it's so important.

[Helen] We've started to touch on those barriers for women accessing and taking on more STEM roles in the industry. We've talked a bit about lack of female role models, the lack of encouragement, perhaps at school and why we're not seeing that conversion from education into industry. One of the other things that's really come through for me in hearing you both speak is about the powerful advocacy you've had from men, whether it be someone at home, a family member or people you've worked with.

So now we'll move to our final segment which is the opportunity in energy transition. So we'll look at the opportunities arising in the energy transition and renewable energy sub-sector. There are still significant skills gaps to fill, and I'm interested in how you think women can play a significant part in fulfilling that skills gap and driving the energy transition.

Again, a couple of stats, the International Renewable Energy Agency have said that renewable energy employs about 32% women compared to 22% in the energy sector overall, but still within renewables women's participation in the STEM jobs is far lower than in administrative jobs. How do you think the sector can maximise on the opportunity to bring more women into the industry and fulfil the renewable subject matter expertise gap?

[Smitha] I think this is one of the first places that women could possibly have a level playing field because it's new, it's new for men, it's new for women and I think it's an opportunity to either retrain or upskill women to get into those spaces.

[Ro] Yeah, what is it in that marketing that is making it appealing to women as well as men? What are the benefits? What are the flexibilities? What are the opportunities? We talk a lot about the renewable industry, and we talk about the energy transition, but we're talking about it at such a high level that I don't think people can break it down to what does that mean for me? Where is my opportunity? Where can I support? Where can I get involved? How can I help? Because I think we're still talking about it really strategically and not actually really operationally or really technically.

I think there's a big gap between what are we trying to do and how are we actually going to make it happen and I don't think we've been able to interpret that for women and explain to them how they could fit into that and are they targeting them and are they engaging with them? I think there's a bit of a gap.

[Helen] So there's a few things there. I've picked up flexibility of the work, being able to articulate and communicate to women and girls coming through what the actual opportunities are overall but actually what are those specific opportunities that can be accessed at a much more local level I think is really key. Are there any other initiatives or enablers that you think could really accelerate our representation in that space?

[Smitha] So I know people who've done short courses to get an understanding of what renewable energy means and how they could move into that space. I can’t help but wonder if organisations could do some things like that and it doesn't need to be restricted to women but actually make it known so people know what's available.

[Helen] Yeah, I think it's an exciting opportunity I think as you said Smitha, to level the playing field definitely.

[Smitha] Okay. And would we then go to the university graduates to say look these are the things that you could look at and maybe get internships, so there are lots of opportunity to target with men and women but maybe use that as an opportunity to level the playing field as you say.

[Helen] Definitely, thank you. We're coming towards the end of the session the two of you have shared some really insightful points and I'm going to summarise some of the key takeaways I think I've heard about the opportunity in the industry for digitalisation, innovation, the diversity of opportunities. Another point that really resonated that I felt we kept coming back to was the power of advocacy, male or female, professionally, personal, having that right support around you being really key. And then finally, there's something for me about how we communicate and market the roles and the opportunities for women.

Getting them much earlier and not leaving it to a point where maybe they've made their minds up or they feel quite set on a path that's maybe discounted STEM opportunities, but maybe earlier in their lives or in their school time, but certainly being able to map through for people the opportunities.

I'm going to put you both on the spot and just say, if you were now in front of a classroom of girls contemplating a career in energy and STEM, what would you say to them?

[Ro] I would like to say to them that it's a really, really great opportunity and it's way more exciting than you might imagine, and that actually you really can make a difference and you really can get behind something and feel that you're not only just making a difference for this generation, but all the future generations as well. And it's not scary and there's some great people in that industry and some great things to learn and have fun along the way. I mean, I've met some fabulous people and I've been in my career long enough to know that if you're not enjoying yourself, you get out of it, right? Because life's too short. So that's what I would say.

[Smitha] I couldn't possibly top that.

[Ro] Sorry, I went first.

[Smitha] That was really, really good. And I agree, that's exactly what it is. It's about selling the idea that it is an exciting place and there's nothing to be scared of. You've got lots of opportunities and a lot of help. There are people there to help you. You will have a support system and you'll have fun on the way. And actually, you can make a huge difference. It makes me feel so happy where I am. Because I do think we make a difference to real people.

[Helen] The opportunities to have fun and the potential to make meaningful impact.

[Ro] Well summarized. Well, I will leave it there and just say a massive thank you for being our guests on today's episode. It's been brilliant to have you both here sharing your perspectives. Thank you so much for your time.

[Ro] Thank you for having me.

[Simtha] Thank you, Helen. Absolutely wonderful to be here.