Welcome back to the No Grey Areas Podcast! In this episode, our host, Patrick Mccalla, engages in a deep conversation with Scott Ridout, a seasoned executive pastor. They explore the fundamental pillars of vulnerability, effective communication, and the pitfalls of people-pleasing.

Ridout dives into the intricacies of communication and the pervasive issue of people-pleasing. He offers nuggets of truth and wisdom on the need to constantly seek validation from others. Furthermore, Scott reveals powerful techniques he employs to combat anxiety, by addressing fears head-on and leaning into faith.

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No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at nogreyareas.com

Host

Welcome back to the No Gray Areas podcast. Today I sit down with Scott Wright out a leader, life coach and friend. Scott will unpack the importance of trust, vulnerability, and effective communication. Listen now as we navigate the complexities of faith and personal growth. Let's dive in.

Pat McCalla

Scott. Right out. Welcome to the No Gray Areas podcast. We go back, I think at least 15 years. I have deep respect for you. You. I think our, organizational leadership, operational leadership.

Pat McCalla

However, you wanted to define that. I think you're one of the gurus of that. And, you know, I,

Pat McCalla

actually, had you working with me a little bit and, and in, consulting at one of the places I was at with that. But, I've had great respect for you. So one of the things that we want to do today is answer this question.

Pat McCalla

And I know our audience is going to connect with this. Can one anxious person really impact a team, an office, and or a family? So we want to answer that today. But before we jump into that, give us a little bit of your bio, a little bit of your background for the audience that may not know you.

Unknown

Unknown

And very quickly, yes.

Unknown

Yes.

Unknown

Right.

Unknown

We were we were set up and tear down for 13 years. we were made at a school. We met at a theater. We met at another place. We had a motto. We're a great church. If you can find us. So,

Unknown

but I took over 98 churches, about 400. The founding pastor left to move to Colorado, and I very quickly grew the church from 400 to 200

Unknown

in my first year.

Unknown

So which is why I get asked to be on podcast a lot. So,

Unknown

Unknown

Unknown

Pat McCalla

You did just really quickly jumping in. You did kind of some innovative things during that time. Like you were one of the few that did a co leadership model for a while. And that's a I mean a very, very

Unknown

Right.

Unknown

Unknown

And I, I probably hand it off too late. He's done a phenomenal job. Nelson Valley's got many more campuses and great greater influence and, boy, if you talk about baton passes and leadership, it could not have gone any better. And there could not have been any more respect for each other during that time.

Pat McCalla

anybody that knows anything about baton passes in leadership in especially in church leadership, it rarely does go well. So that's that's phenomenal. That's amazing to hear that. And and we don't get to hear those kind of stories very often. So you go from there to where.

Unknown

Well,

Unknown

Sun Valley was a part of a movement of churches called converge. converge was, the old Baptist General Conference group that changed their name because, so many reasons. But, if you know the name John Piper, he was a part of that. John Ortberg actually grew up in that movement. Larry Osborne actually was a youth pastor in that movement before he moved, to, to where he is now.

Unknown

Unknown

And I was already on the board of a group called the Timothy Initiative and the Timothy Initiative is a group of people that, make disciples in order to plant churches. And it's amazing to see they're planting churches in places where the gospel has never been, where it is. probably not legal to share your faith or to convert as well as many other places.

Unknown

Pat McCalla

Wow.

Unknown

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

That is amazing. You know, this is perfect timing because in my daily time with God right now, I'm in the book of acts. So I just started it two days ago. So I will be reading about

Pat McCalla

this movement that you're part of now, this Timothy initiative.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yeah. And I would I would tell you that we are we're experiencing this. And, I would say that with New Testament growth always come New Testament problems. So everything you read about in the Gospels, in the epistles. Yeah, we're experiencing all those things and, having to solve all those problems. But every church, every every organization and ministry has problems.

Unknown

I'd rather have the growth problems that we're having, than the stagnation problems that others may be having.

Pat McCalla

Yeah I, I love that you said it that way because you and I've often heard people say this where we're going, we need to get back to being a New Testament church.

Unknown

No, thank you.

Unknown

Yeah,

Unknown

exactly. Exactly.

Unknown

Ministry is messy. Yeah. And it's not. If it's not messy, you're probably not doing ministry. So.

Pat McCalla

yeah. Well said. on that note, you've been in organizational leadership. And like I said, and you probably do want to brag on yourself, but I'll break on you. You're, you're you're really a guru of this. And I valued so much some of the things that you taught me over the years, and even when you were doing a little bit of consulting with me.

Pat McCalla

But, what were some of the biggest issues that you faced in your time doing organizational leadership? Our listeners got to hear that span now for over 20 years. What are some of the biggest challenges with that?

Unknown

Well, I think you you have to separate things into science and art, and science is all about the. It's about the skills. It's about the tactics. It's about the strategies. It's about the vision. That was actually the easiest part. the people part of it, the art part of it. How to solve problems, how to solve resistance to change, how to, get people to move in the same direction.

Unknown

how to get very independent minds, to say we're going to stack hands. We're actually better together. That was by far the hardest, hardest part.

Unknown

trust is the currency of ministry. it's not about position. And so trust is really trust building and trust keeping, was by far the hardest part and still is the hardest part of ministry.

Pat McCalla

Well, and I think we could add not just ministry, right? In an organization that's not even from a faith based perspective or within a family. If you're leading your family right, trust is still

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

agree, I work with, business leaders around the country, around the world. and it doesn't matter, what positions they have. people have options. And, building trust, builds loyalty. Building trust, builds vulnerability. building trust. you know, builds the organization no matter what, whether it's ministry or business or even a family.

Unknown

Trust is the currency.

Pat McCalla

Where do you think people are leaders. And I'm saying leaders and families. Leaders in an organizations, non faith based, faith based leaders in ministry. Where do you think we fail a lot at that that building to trust or where do you think we often lose the trust of our followers.

Unknown

It's almost always in communication. Or the lack thereof. we either communicate the wrong way or we communicate the wrong things, or we communicate the wrong time. You know, the channels of communication, like you and I are talking right? Right now. there's what I'm saying and what I meant to say and what you heard and how you interpreted it and how how, you know, applying it to what, you know, the filter that you have, there's so much opportunity for mistrust.

Unknown

And then the challenge of, of of this world and the world we live in now, people are much more likely to insert suspicion rather than trust in the gaps. And so we've got to figure out we've got to figure out how to how to help people, insert trust, not suspicion. There always be gaps. But that's why trust is so important.

Unknown

if there's if you have a have a gap in communication, to insert trust, not suspicion is the hardest part. But if you built, if you build trust, then you have it. You have it for that gap.

Pat McCalla

Well, I can see why you call that art. Because it's different for everyone. Like you just use you. And I use an example.

Pat McCalla

I have this internal voice. It's going I have my own stories that I've lived through and lived with.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yes.

Unknown

Well, there's it there. There's the cultural side, too. You know, I work with,

Unknown

a number of countries around the world, over 40 of them and with leaders. And I've learned something in my last year and a half here, and it's that. That, Yes. Means no and maybe means no, and no also means no.

Unknown

And so, but something you never know if you get a yes, maybe or no. So there has to be, there has to be some skill sets to actually get to the place where people feel like they're safe to express or to their true sense of things. And so, again, the art side is the hardest side to me.

Pat McCalla

Man. So helpful. There. Well, let me shift our conversation slightly and go to kind of the theme of our podcast is the power and complexity of human choice that we make our choices and eventually our choices make us. It really comes from Joe Gagliano story. He was the one that masterminded the biggest sports scandal that we know of in history, the ASU scandal.

Pat McCalla

You were here at that time, you may

Unknown

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

and

Pat McCalla

he and Stephen, who was the point guard at ASU, they're still living out the consequences of the choices they made as, as early 20 year olds. But they've also been forgiven and move and moved on. And God is using their mistakes. So so that's where we kind of look at this idea of the power and complexity of human choice.

Pat McCalla

We make our choice and eventually our choices make us from a from the perspective of faith and being a leader in our faith movements. What are your thoughts on that concept? The power and complexity of human choice.

Unknown

Well, I think that the biggest issue with that is, is motive. I think it's, everyone has their own, attitudes, values, beliefs and behaviors. I call it by the definition of culture. Culture is the defining set of attitudes, values, beliefs, and behaviors of a given group of people. It could be two people. It could be an individual.

Unknown

It could be a, a team. But,

Unknown

our behaviors are the result of our beliefs. And if our beliefs are either conditional or they're convenient

Unknown

a lot of times we, we lean toward we we, we move toward comfort rather than, conviction. we move towards fear rather than faith. We move toward, all sorts of things that are unhealthy and worldly rather than believing the things of God.

Unknown

And so I think, you say our choices make us. Yeah, they do, but our our beliefs are the foundation for our choices. And so, many of our beliefs are default beliefs. In other words, we never actually thought them through. We never actually decided on these things. We never actually made them convictions. So our parents are. Yeah.

Unknown

Right. Exactly.

Unknown

even like, I'll use the church world. There's a, you know, people think they know what maturity is. but if you as a church don't actually define maturity for your people, they will come up with their own definition based on their background, and then they'll almost always define maturity in the Christian faith as knowledge.

Unknown

And yet the most knowledgeable people in the New Testament were the ones that Jesus had the hardest time with. we do the same thing. We default to our our background. So the way my family did, it must have been right. How we how we engage in fighting with our spouse. it's probably the family background that gives you that, I was talking to someone today where they were telling me they're from a certain background.

Unknown

They're saying, this is what I'm going to do, and they're from a different country. And I said, well, you think we're actually asking you to be American? And your response? But I'm not asking you to be American, and I'm not asking you to be. And I name this country. I said, it's not about being American. It's not about being this.

Unknown

It's about being biblical. What is Scripture say? How does what is what? What did Jesus do? What's the model of the New Testament church? What are the what is the Paul do? What did Peter do? What? What are the best examples from Scripture? Because we're Christians first before we're Americans before anything else. And so our choice, our belief system has to be based on our faith and our foundational book of our faith, which is the Bible, not on what we feel and not on what our parents did and not what our friends say, and not whatever Oprah decided she wants to do these days, or whoever the influencer is.

Unknown

on social media, that's that's not what we do. because our faith is founded in the character of God, and we want to honor God. So, so I think I think our choices are very often the result of emotions, anxiousness, things that drive us, out of fear and not out of conviction and faith.

Pat McCalla

why in Romans 12 two. Right. Transformation comes from the renewing of our minds. That's what you're you're

Unknown

Yeah,

Pat McCalla

is because they're now recognizing why I said I've gotten so much from you over the years because some of them, if they were driving down the road, they probably wanted to pull over and start writing notes down on what you were saying, because you had so many nuggets of truth in your answer there.

Pat McCalla

And and that's what I've always loved about you. But I wholeheartedly agree that when we say, we make our choices and eventually our choices make us. That is true.

Pat McCalla

But we got to back up. And that's what you're saying. It's our beliefs that really define our choices. Eventually. That's what you're

Unknown

Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. I, you know, I,

Unknown

Andy Stanley once was talking about people who, you know, walk away from the faith, and they, they people typically behave themselves out of their beliefs. they'll they'll have a foundation and they'll behead themself out of their beliefs. which means it really wasn't a belief to begin with.

Unknown

it was just, it was something that they heard was right, but they didn't they didn't actually hold to it. And so, yeah, I think I think we've got to go. We've got to go back to the foundations. If we really want to change. you know, there's a verse and Matthew chapter six, this is where your treasure is.

Unknown

Your heart will be also, which means your heart's a follower. And so what we treasure is, our heart will actually go that direction. And so in this, in this case, if we treasure the truth of Scripture, our hearts will go in that direction. If we treasure the things of the world, the conveniences, the comforts and things like that, our heart will go that direction.

Unknown

But we'll behave ourselves out of out of things that are true conviction, conviction, or beliefs.

Pat McCalla

Such a powerful statement behaving ourselves out of beliefs because they weren't really true convictions or beliefs. Just something we heard.

Unknown

No they weren't.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

It is. And I think that there are motivations inside of us that were based on, experiences that we had when we were younger. it was responses to, again, to anxiety, to, you know, it's interesting how God designed the body. when we were young, we had these, acute moments of anxiousness. The dog, you know, started growling in front of us at two years old, and we we we felt like we were in danger.

Unknown

And God designed the body to tell you you're you're a danger. And yet, when we get older, we have a boss that barks at us. And that same chemical reaction happens in our body to tell us where we're in danger. But it's not real danger. It's just perceived danger.

Pat McCalla

our body's reacting.

Unknown

Yeah. We'll respond to the same emotions that we had when the dog was in our face.

Unknown

We thought we were going to die. And so there's

Unknown

perceived danger, and then there's real danger. And our bodies don't tell the difference. But if but the way God designed the body is to say, hey, your your emotions are actually a result of the stimulus around you. And God designed it that way. And it's great.

Unknown

But but, you know, emotion, is not reality.

Unknown

It's not real. Anxiousness is not reality. So yeah.

Pat McCalla

That was a masterful transition by the way because

Pat McCalla

you, so you transition us back to the original question that I started this podcast with. Can one anxious person really impact a team, an office and or a family. And so why that that's a great question because it sets us up, first of all. So why is anxiety, why is stress something that we deal with this humans and why is it a, it can be a very negative emotion and affect us in a negative way.

Pat McCalla

And then how do we deal with that?

Unknown

Yeah. So let me let me go back. So

Unknown

you get done with a hard day at work, and you go home and you got a spouse and some kids, and you take some of the frustration of work home, and you, you throw up all over your spouse, all of your kids, you know, all the things at work and you feel great.

Unknown

But now you look at the house or what's happening in the house and you're thinking, what? Why is everyone so stressed out? I feel great because, you know, I you just vomited on them.

Pat McCalla

have you have you spied on me before.

Unknown

Yeah, sure. You walk into a business meeting and you're having a conversation. Someone's having a bad day, and they just, you know, they just hijack the meeting based on their emotion, and you can't get anything done. And everyone's like, is anyone going to address the elephant in the room? And everyone walks away saying, what a waste of time.

Unknown

yeah. Anxiousness is it's it's everywhere. It has great power. And I would say this, this is actually there's a guy named Steve Kurz. He's a pastor in Colorado. He said it this way. He said he said the most anxious person in the room is temporarily the most powerful person in the room.

Unknown

Because anxiousness, it draws your attention.

Unknown

When someone is someone, I mean, someone just kind of blurts something out or makes a statement or whatever because they're upset or whatever. All of a sudden all the attention goes to that person.

Unknown

And so, so anxious is a power.

Pat McCalla

And you can feel it. Right. Like a lot

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

The attention is going to that person.

Unknown

Has to. And the thing is, is that there's a symbiotic relationship between that between that person, and, and the group. Because if it's a person of great power, the more anxious the the more anxious and powerful they are, the more synergistic it is. If the if the most powerful person in the room is the most anxious person in the room, then the whole room gets it.

Unknown

And third, is it,

Unknown

anxiousness is contagious. I mean, it's contagious. It's it's it's viral.

Unknown

and how it works and how it and how it, how it moves. But again, anxiousness is emotion about reality. It's not reality.

Pat McCalla

Okay. That's deep. What you just said.

Pat McCalla

it's how did you put that. It's emotion

Unknown

Anxiousness is not. Yeah. Anxiousness is not reality. It's emotion about reality. And I so I just wanna say I've been a I've been in counseling for a long time. They're still trying to fix me. but I've had counselors

Unknown

almost, my entire, career. And I've had seasons where, you know, my body, my soul, my mind were just not where they needed to be.

Unknown

emotion is energy that has to be released, and you can release it in a healthy way, in a godly way. You can release it in a in an unhealthy way, in an ungodly way, but it will be released. So, so that the challenge of that is, you know, again, anxiousness is emotion. It's emotion about reality. And so it's hard to be negative emotion about reality.

Unknown

There's also good emotion about reality. But in this case we typically don't do the constructive thing, with our emotions when they're, when they're negative.

Pat McCalla

Do you think because for many of us, I'm included in this? but a lot of our listeners have heard me share my own story with this. I look back on my life and I realize I, I was holding a lot of this anxiety, and but I didn't even know it. You know, I took

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yeah,

Unknown

Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown

So, sure I did. So I'll tell you in

Unknown

Unknown

Unknown

Unknown

started, speaking from a stool and a chair. Everyone thought I was copying Andy Stanley, but the fact is, I just couldn't stand up anymore.

Unknown

I couldn't stand up.

Unknown

Unknown

I was going on sabbatical. Either had to step down or solve this thing, but I had been. I had an MRI and MRI on my brain. they said nothing remarkable there, I do, that's a good thing. So, I went to

Unknown

I started going to the chiropractor, I got glasses, I went to ears, eyes, nose and throat person.

Unknown

They put me on that table and started spinning around thinking it was something physical. I'd done everything I could and I thought, I don't know if I can come back from this. And I went on sabbatical the very first week I met with a guy named Alice. He had a minister called leaders. That last he was a counselor.

Unknown

Within five minutes he looked at me. He said, I know exactly what your problem is. And I'm like, how can you possibly know what my problem is? And he he took a bottle of water and he said, he said, this is this is your life. And the amount of water in the bottle is and I would stress that you carry every day.

Unknown

He says. The good news is that when new stress comes, it's like pouring more water in the bottle. When it overflows, it overflows. It overflows in vertigo. And I said, I don't know how that's a good thing. He said, well, most pastors I talked to, it's a stroke. And I said, you now have my attention. What do I need to do?

Unknown

And he took the Bible. He said, we have to figure out how to reduce the amount of water in the bottle.

Unknown

And I said, thank you, Confucius. I have no idea what that means. So.

Unknown

And he gave me some tips. You know, and I began to deal with my stress. And, one of those things was journaling, and I, I started journaling that day.

Unknown

He told me, he said, I want you to journal, not just dear diary, but I want you to journal all the emotions you're carrying that are negative, all the frustrations, all the fears, all the anxieties, all the disappointments. I want you to write them all down. And I want you to ask three questions. Question number one. what are you so afraid of?

Unknown

Because all anxiety is based in fear. fear of some sort. It could be fear of, you know, people pleasing. Could be fear of the future. It could be fear of what? You know, losing money could be whatever the fears are. So what are you so afraid of? Second, what's the worst thing that could happen? And third, is God big enough to handle this?

Unknown

Unknown

I know that because that was the last day I had vertigo

Unknown

and I haven't had assets. Yes. Praise God. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

and all of a sudden I have no idea what's going on, but I can't breathe. And the guy standing next to me keep tell from my face is like, are you okay?

Pat McCalla

And I'm like, I don't know. And then I hear, Patrick McCullough's going to come up and he's going to share. And I just walked off the front because I knew I wasn't, I couldn't breathe, so I walked off the front of the stage, went back to my office, really embarrassing hundreds of people in the crowd.

Pat McCalla

but I called ALS.

Pat McCalla

So that's what's so

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yep. Yep.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yes it will.

Unknown

I have 14 degenerative discs in my neck and my back. 14. I had stomach problems when I was in college. It seemed like my stresses moved from my stomach to my neck to my head over, over time. And and now, by God's grace, I'm learning how to manage these things. You listen.

Unknown

We're broken. We're fallen. we we need. We don't need help. We need a savior. but we've got to figure out how to how to manage these things. They manage the tensions that we have and, you know, cast our curse on him because he cares for us. Take every thought captive. Make it obedient to Christ. not be anxious about anything, but pray about everything with thanksgiving,

Unknown

and you can do all those things.

Unknown

But we also have to know how the body works and how God designed it. And, be able to recognize when these things are. These things are coming because we will see them. We'll see them in our body, or we'll see them in our thinking, or we'll sense them in our spirit, but body, soul and spirit, but body, mind is spirit are really the three areas that you have to watch when it comes to anxiety.

Pat McCalla

And we're created as holistic beings I think our Western mindset we like

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yes. Agreed.

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Well, I think I think first of all, the first thing I had to identify was what was my normal pattern of stress? How did it show up in me? You know, there's typically four different ways it shows up. It'll show up and and fight. You probably heard a couple of these where they fight. So we'll we'll just fight to win no matter what.

Unknown

Some people are fighters and some people are flares. they'll freeze or flee. They'll go the opposite direction. They'll try to avoid it rather than deal with it. That's just as unhealthy. But then there's the over overcompensate people. people who have a self-image issue, who have to prove that they're worth whatever people think they're not worth.

Unknown

And so they'll they'll throw themselves in situations that they're not they're they have no skill, just, you know, I was the worship leader at Sun Valley for three years. I was a prison singer, always behind a few bars. Never had the right key. You know, I could truly. I could truly make a joyful noise to the Lord.

Unknown

you know that, but I jumped,

Unknown

jumped in because there was no place to do it. I didn't want people to feel, you know, think negatively about me. At least they would say what? Scott's doing the best he can so I wouldn't be a part of the problem. So that was overcompensating. And then the last one is over.

Unknown

Complicating is this idea. So Patrick, you and I are having a conversation. I mentioned something to you that maybe hurt you a little bit, and then someone else, you have a conversation later on today and someone else comes and they, they say something to you is like, oh, that sounded pretty familiar that what Scott said, I bet Scott and this person are actually talking to each other, and you start to create this, spiral down because you think the whole world is against me.

Unknown

Think about Elijah in the Bible. You know, I'm the only one who's left and you know it, that kind of thing. That's that over complicate ties everything together as if everyone's against me, including God.

Unknown

And that's that's just a.

Unknown

And it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy if you're not Dane, if you're not careful because it's because you begin again.

Unknown

our choices result in our actions and, and our beliefs about who and what God thinks about us, what others think about us. They impact our choices and our actions. So yeah, it's it's a it's a spiral down.

Unknown

Everyone's against me. And then, you know, all of a sudden you're everyone's either a victim or a villain. you know, it's it's it's a dangerous place to be.

Pat McCalla

let me review those you talked about. You fight or you flight or you overcompensate or you overcomplicate.

Unknown

Yeah. So those are the four I asked my counselor one time, I he just talked me. Talk to me about this this. And so which one's the best one? He said none of them. They're all unhealthy.

Unknown

They're all unhealthy. Yeah. I still try to. Weird. It's like,

Unknown

oh, he's like, none of them are good. I'm like, okay, okay, all right.

Unknown

But they're human. And I think about different scenarios, different relationships. I do all four of these things, just not in the not all the same time are not all with the same people, not all in the same scenario. but I do recognize that all of them are unhealthy and then say, what is Scripture? Say how the scriptures say, handle this.

Unknown

What? What am I supposed to do with these emotions? And, I figured this listening. So the first thing is, you know what? What's my tactic? What's my what's my go to tactic? in this relationship or in this scenario? And how do I avoid that? How do I, look at Scripture or get godly counsel on how do I how do I recognize those things and how do I not respond, those those ways.

Pat McCalla

Let's let's play this out Scott. So let's say overcompensating is what, what maybe one of our listeners is listening and they're going man I deal with all four of those like you said, Scott, we do as humans, all four. But maybe there's one that we I go, man, that's where I really live most often.

Pat McCalla

So maybe someone said overcompensating. What would be some of the scriptural truths that you would, would say would come back? That,

Unknown

Yeah. So overcompensation is almost always a result of a and proper concept, self, when it comes to God, it's almost always, that I'm not good enough, that people are upset with me, that I don't measure up, those kind of things. And so, where it says in Scripture, you're fearfully and wonderfully made. we don't believe that.

Unknown

And yet, yet Jesus says this about us or where it says that, you know, come to you who are weary and heavy burden. I'll give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. And he says, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for yourselves. We have this picture of God being, you know, the person who's looking for us to do something wrong.

Unknown

And yet when Jesus and one place where he describes himself, he says, I'm gentle and humble in heart and in words, you know, I'm gentle and and listen, I'll deal with you gently. And I'm humble. he's been, you know, through every temptation we've been through except without sin. I mean, there's there's a there's an opportunity, even in Ephesians chapter two, where it says, we were created as we are God's workmanship, created for good deeds that he called us to advance to, you know, to walk in these, these things.

Unknown

So there's there's all sorts of places, I think my favorite versus Psalm 139, verses 23 and 24, which says, search me, oh God, know my heart, test me, know my thoughts,

Unknown

Unknown

And that always leads to overcompensating. but I had to, I had a mentor. His name was Larry Osborne. He looked at me one day and he said, Scott, you know, I've had to learn this a years of ministry. He says, you know, you have an audience of one, which means in this world you have no one to impress and nothing to prove.

Unknown

You can rest in the goodness of God.

Pat McCalla

Wow. We had Larry on is a guest as well. He's had a huge impact in my life. Is is as well man Scott I resonate with what you're saying because I would say that's my area, too. for me, a phrase that I started adopting 15 years ago, and I still am a long, long, long ways away from really, I think believing at the core of my being, but nothing to prove, nothing to lose that that really because of who I am in Christ, because of the verses that you shared, because of those truths, I have nothing to prove.

Pat McCalla

I have nothing to lose. But but as much as I tell myself that I still recognize have a ways, I have a ways to go, for me, and I and again, I think I, I, I'm hearing from you that this was probably years. She was well, I grew up in the church, but my view, I'm I'm not going to blame that on anybody.

Pat McCalla

Pat McCalla

I'm. I'm wild about you and you have nothing to prove. Nothing was that started changing my thinking because I saw I see the overcompensating part as well.

Pat McCalla

What

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Yeah. Over contemplate over complicate is what I said. But it's, it's you know you. Yeah you tend.

Unknown

the funny thing is, is that we when we overcomplicate, we assume that everyone's thinking about us.

Unknown

And the funny thing is, is that no one's thinking about us. They think about themselves. They they're just too busy with themselves.

Unknown

They may have an opinion about us.

Unknown

but the danger, the danger is, again, this is a, this is a self image issue again, where, we just assume, number one, we're the center of the universe. It's a skydio centric universe. And so all eyes are on me, and, you know, that's just not true. And we also believe the worst about people.

Unknown

and part of that is because, we actually have those tendencies to be opinionated about others.

Unknown

we always condemn people who sin differently than us. we always, we always, condemn people who live.

Pat McCalla

sing like me. Right.

Unknown

Yeah, right. Yeah, sure. So.

Unknown

when people, have weaknesses where our strengths are, we condemn them.

Unknown

And when we have strengths that we have weaknesses, we condemn them as well. Because, you know, how dare they be different and, you know, actually be strong. And then there's the endy that jumps. Then we're just we're fallen and broken. Like I said, I we need a savior, not help. And, you know, it just. But all these things.

Unknown

Listen, it's taking every thought captive and making it be obedient to Christ. It's surrendering your will to him. you know, in the Lord's Prayer, it says your kingdom come, your will be done. So part of my journaling, if I could say this, I took the Lord's Prayer. I broke into four parts. The first part, Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name and my journal.

Unknown

Every day I write, I remember. I remember who you are. And I just take time. And I praise God for who he is. And then it's your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as in heaven. And I write, I surrender, I surrender. It's your kingdom, your will, I and I, I try to give everything over to him.

Unknown

And if there's anything in me that needs to be clean to God, I want you to have it. And then it goes on and it says, give us this day our daily bread, because our debts as we forgive others. And so I remember, I surrender, I trust, I'm trusting God for my spiritual physical needs. And the last part is lead him to temptation.

Unknown

I remember, I surrender, I trust, I follow, and I just walk through my day and I walk through all the challenging conversations. I think I'm going to have all the good times of looking forward to. And I try to I try to manage, my emotion, knowing, okay, I'll need a lot of focus on this one, and this will actually fill my tank.

Unknown

This will empty my tank. And so I kind of look through my day. But at the bottom, my, of my journal, I, I, I write these four things. I think them through and I try to manage them energy is emotion. emotion is energy that has to be released. And I'm trying to make sure I've got what I need for those, those conversations.

Unknown

And the last thing I do is I write three commitments. I help me to adore my wife and cherish my kids, help me to lead with moral authority, and help me be generous to somebody today because I want to. I want to put my family first. I would put God first. I want to model leadership the way that the Bible teaches us.

Unknown

And if it's about me, I'm going to be in trouble. So I've got to be generous, I gotta be I was focused in what I do, you know, everything I did in my journal was about emptying myself. And the last four things I do are about filling myself with the power of the Holy Spirit with an intention toward my family, toward my work, and toward my world.

Unknown

And, and so that that's really helped me to not just limbo is the worst part of anxiety. If you feel like you're in limbo, it just gets worse. It spirals down and whatever, you know, flavor fight, flight, freeze. Overcompensate. Overcomplicate. It just spirals down. But if you're in limbo, if you don't know what the next step is to take, you're going to find yourself in trouble.

Unknown

And so I, I try to intentionally say, what are the things I'm going to do today that no one's going to stop me from doing? And this is what my life is about. This is my purpose, and I'm going to move forward in these things. And that helps me to handle the anxiety of life because I don't want to be a victim.

Unknown

I want to be a victor. And it's a whole different story.

Pat McCalla

You know, Scott, what I love about what you're saying. And first of all, thank you so much for being transparent. I think the danger sometimes is leaders, especially leaders in the church, as people see us on a stage in front of a spotlight and they think that we have it all together because

Pat McCalla

teaching truth.

Pat McCalla

And so I think it's so valuable for for our listeners, for me, for us to realize, like, man, we're all broken. Like you said, we all are that person on the stage who's teaching wisdom, a truth that comes from God is having to apply that to their lives because they're broken in areas. So I appreciate your transparency. I appreciate the practicality of the remember surrender trust follow.

Pat McCalla

I wrote those down and I'm going to I'm going to implement some of those in my life. And I encourage our listeners to as well. So I encourage that. But what stood out to me is it's work,

Pat McCalla

right? It's it's

Unknown

Yeah.

Unknown

Unknown

what is it? John Maxwell says that, success doesn't happen in a day, but it happens daily. And so, you know, what's my daily rhythm of connection to God and connection to people that's going to give me what I need for this. This coming season. And so, you know, if my tank is empty, I've got nothing to give.

Unknown

but I try to fill my tank every day by emptying it of all the negative things. And, you know, asking God's Spirit to guide me, reading God's Word to fill me and looking forward to the day, to anticipate the ministry that God's going to give me. I just, I'm just choosing. I'm choosing, like I said, to to believe that God's ahead of me.

Unknown

that God, God has something for me today. And so, something with my family. something at my workplace. Something I to be generous. I jumped out of my car at Chicago a couple weeks ago and pushed a lady to the side. Her car had stopped. stupid in some ways, but it's one of my favorite days this month.

Unknown

I will never see her again. I'll never. I'll have. No, I'll never see her again. But I'm like, yeah, who does that anymore? Who actually who actually stops for somebody who actually. And you know, she was on the phone trying to trying to get help. And I was like, do you have help me said, no. And, and I said, can I push you to the side, get you out of traffic?

Unknown

And, and then this other lady who's stronger than me, evidently, you know, jumping back with me, I'm an old man now, Patrick. So, but she jumped. We pushed it aside and just had a, had it, you know, it's just it's just. Come on, come on. Yeah. what does it mean to be a neighbor these days?

Pat McCalla

actively watching

Unknown

Every day. Every day. I'm looking for those things. And look. And every, every morning as I write that help me be just somebody. Today, I, I almost always have something that I've journal about saying, hey, thanks for the opportunity yesterday to be generous. And there's something that happened that day that I could do that.

Host

we're wrapping up this episode. Be sure to leave us a five star review. And if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment on something you take away. All right, let's hop back into the remainder of the episode.

Pat McCalla

Scott, man, thank you so much. I, I think my big takeaway and you've given us a lot of practical ideas, and I would encourage your audience to, to jump into some of those practical ideas. But I love what you said about all those practical ideas. Come back to daily rhythms, as you talked about the daily rhythms in our life.

Pat McCalla

It's not going to change us tomorrow, but over

Unknown

Right.

Unknown

Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown

I would I would say one more thing, to everyone who who's listening and watching. And is this, the biggest issues are not outside of us. The biggest issues are inside of us. And I would just say we have to learn to love what God loves. He loves you more than you can know. And if you can't grasp that, if you don't understand that you will never have the fuel you need, to to move, confidently and without anxiousness into your future.

Unknown

But we we would never talk to other people the way we talk to ourselves. We just would. And so and so we've we've got to speak the truth of Scripture. We've got to speak the truth of God. This goes back to identity. you know, God has done so much for us. we have to celebrate who he is, what he's done, who we become in him based on what Christ has done, the cross.

Unknown

And if we can't do that point, it's anxiousness will always be an issue for us until we actually believe what God says about us and choose to speak that truth to our lives as well, not just to others, but but how do we how do we love a God, loves?

Pat McCalla

Well. Well said my friend. Well said my friend. So this is the fun part of our podcast. It's, it's ironic

Unknown

Sure.

Unknown

Okay.

Unknown

I jumped out of an airplane. I've kind of 14 or,

Unknown

you know, 40 does with mountain. Never had a cup of coffee.

Pat McCalla

you mentioned Colorado. So I'm going to say you climb to 14 or here in Colorado. There's a lot of them there. Right. You climb to fourteeners. That's true.

Unknown

Yeah. That's true.

Pat McCalla

I'm going to say you jumped out of an airplane. So the lie is that you've never had a cup of coffee.

Unknown

I've never had a cup of coffee.

Pat McCalla

Really?

Pat McCalla

You're

Unknown

Yeah. Really?

Pat McCalla

caffeine

Unknown

no. No, I used to, I used to, yeah.

Pat McCalla

Well, well, Scott, thank you again. Really, really appreciate it. I know, like I said,

Pat McCalla

I look back on my life and and you had a big impact at several places. One of them I just share. I didn't even really realize it until today. That you're the one that connected me to else all those years ago.

Pat McCalla

And he had an impact on me. So, again, just relationally, we've we've kind of jumped into each other's lives at brief moments from time to time and last 15 years. But I've gleaned so much from you, and I know our listeners today see why, as they probably had to pull over, like I said and start taking notes on this podcast.

Pat McCalla

Appreciate it a lot. Appreciate you, my friend.

Unknown

I appreciate you. My privilege.

Host

Thanks for tuning in to No Gray Areas podcast with today's insightful guest, Scott Rideout.

Host

We hope you enjoyed this interview and if so, please like follow and subscribe so you won't miss the new episodes every other Wednesday. We'll see you next time.