Intro

✅ Ready to revolutionize your B2B marketing game? 🚀

✅ Tune into the latest episode of Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew with host Brett Deister and digital strategy expert Phillipa Gamse!

✅ From the power of holistic marketing strategies to leveraging AI for content creation, this episode is packed with invaluable insights.

✅ Discover why understanding your customer journey and focusing on quality over quantity can transform your digital marketing efforts! 🔥

Timestamps:

00:00 Brett Deister discusses B2B marketing with expert.

04:12 Balance creativity and analytics in marketing specialization.

08:24 Metrics measure success, improve with data analytics.

10:44 Using GA 4 to track video engagement.

13:48 Analytics reveals popular consumption patterns for content.

18:33 Machine learning is precursor to AI, traditional marketing.

20:22 Websites need clear, repeated call-to-action points.

23:53 User testing uncovers valuable insights for websites.

28:09 Glossary not just for SEO, consider trust.

31:06 Fundamentals of business and marketing remain key.

33:03 New technology doesn't replace traditional marketing basics.

💬 Want to get involved? Leave us a comment, give us a 'like,' and follow us for more insights. Join our Locals for lively discussions, and if you've got questions, email us at bdeister@digitalcafe.media!

👕 Check out our mech: www.digitalcafe.store

🌟 Review the Podcast if you loved this episode and share it with fellow marketers who could benefit from a treasure trove of podcasting wisdom. Tune in to "Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew" and let's brew up some success together!

Mm, that's good.

2

And welcome to a new episode of

Digital Coffee Marketing Brew,

3

and I'm your host, Brett Deister.

4

And this week we're gonna be talking

about B2B marketing the most.

5

Exciting marketing.

6

Not really exciting, but it's one of those

marketings that we all need to know about.

7

And even though it may not be the

most exciting part, it is very

8

important for a lot of businesses.

9

But with me, I have Philippa with me, and

she has, she's done a lot in this area.

10

She can help you.

11

Mostly digital marketing

strategies, digital analytics.

12

That means GA four, which is the newest.

13

Google Analytics out there, which

is a different little plug or

14

a different little number thing

that you have to use besides the

15

previous one, which is the UTA, but

we'll get in more of that as well.

16

And she just has certificate

certification, cer, certified management

17

consultant, and she's British as well.

18

So we'll get a nice little

English accent as well.

19

So welcome to the show.

20

Phillipa Gamse: Hi, Brett.

21

Thank you.

22

What you just said reminded me of

that famous saying, it's a terrible

23

thing happens if you don't advertise.

24

Remember that?

25

Brett Deister: Yes.

26

Yes.

27

It really is a terrible thing.

28

If you never advertise yourself,

29

Phillipa Gamse: you never

advertise, you get nothing.

30

Brett Deister: It's true.

31

You always gotta spend money to make

money as the other one, I think is

32

Phillipa Gamse: right.

33

Brett Deister: Anyways, the first

question is, all my guests is,

34

are you a coffee or a tea drinker?

35

Phillipa Gamse: Both if that's allowed.

36

So I am British, right?

37

So I have to drink.

38

I have, right now I probably have

nearly 800 tea bags stashed away

39

proper English tea in proper tea bags

without, the paper and all the, little.

40

Things that you pick it up with.

41

We just have big boxes of tea in

England with, in the supermarket and

42

it's much cheaper than it is here.

43

So I do have that, but I have

to say that I also treated

44

myself to an espresso machine.

45

So I'm allowed one espresso coffee

in the morning, and so both.

46

Brett Deister: So you're still

very European about your coffee.

47

'cause you said espresso instead

of just the actual drip coffee.

48

Because I know in like places like Italy,

they just don't do drip coffee at all.

49

They may give you an Americano, which

was an insult to Americans because

50

they put hot water with an espresso.

51

Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, no, sorry.

52

Actually that was a product advertisement

because I actually said Nespresso,

53

so I've got one of those machines.

54

But yeah,

55

Brett Deister: no, no worries.

56

And I gave a brief summary of your

expertise, but can you give my audience

57

a little bit more about what you do?

58

Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, so basically

I, I'm a digital marketing strategy

59

and analytics consultant which

I've been doing for a while.

60

And I do that because I feel like a lot

of people they jump straight into tactics.

61

Oh gosh, we've gotta do SEO,

we've gotta do social media,

62

and what they don't do is stop.

63

And come up with a holistic

plan before they do anything

64

that says, what's our goals?

65

What are we trying to do?

66

What's the best way to get to

where we wanna go, and how does,

67

how will all the things that we

are doing fit together, right?

68

To create a full picture and then

intelligently use analytics to

69

figure out whether or not what

you're trying to do is working.

70

Um, it's not maybe the most sexy part of

it all, although of course I think it is.

71

It's not, it's, it's not that you are

immediately doing something that generates

72

results when you create strategy, but

on the other hand, because you're a

73

framework, so you know what you're trying

to go and when you're getting there.

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That, that's my goal.

75

I understand stuff like SEO

and so on, but I used to do it.

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I don't do it as a consultant anymore.

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I'm the one that sort of

says, here's a great idea.

78

Go away and make it happen.

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Brett Deister: Yeah, I understand what

you're saying is, 'cause most people,

80

it's more of the big words are like,

Hey, we need to do SEO, but no one really

81

knows how to do SEO, they just need, they

just know how to say we need to do SEO.

82

Phillipa Gamse: The truth is that there

are lots of really good SEO folks around

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and it's a very specialized subject

and it's, you can't be everything.

84

Marketing to me is very interesting

these days because there are so many

85

different skills that come into play.

86

And there are people who are

incredibly creative and make

87

incredibly creative writing or media

or advertising, whatever it is.

88

And then there are people who

are incredibly analytical on

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the other end of the spectrum.

90

And you need all of that.

91

In marketing.

92

So I'm choosing to hang out mostly

at the analytical end, although I do

93

write and I speak I'm not visually

creative, for example, so I'm not the

94

one that can make the great visuals.

95

But yeah I think it's important

to really understand what you

96

specialize in and focus on that.

97

Brett Deister: And so since I feel like

98

forefront of everything in marketing.

99

How has that affected the SEO side of it?

100

Are, we're gonna see more of

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The prevalence of how AI has touched

every bit of PR and marketing.

102

I feel like there, I can't get

away from talking about ai.

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah honestly, I, as I

said, I'm not the SEO expert as such.

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You know what it.

105

Seems to be is that it's

very helpful in being a tool.

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So it can generate ideas, it can generate

content ideas, it can do keyword research.

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But I am certainly seeing I get PR

requests every day, most of them say, do

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not send me something that's AI generated.

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So in other words, use it to get

ideas, use it to get a first draft.

110

But then add your own spin at, so

it, it sounds like you, it looks

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like, it's personalized and it's not.

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AI writing tends to be maybe a

little generic, maybe a little less

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personal because of course it's

written off of existing material.

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That's how it's trained, right?

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You just wanna polish it and make

it a bit more original in the end.

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Brett Deister: Yeah.

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I think the older models, I think ga

not GA four, but was chat, GPT-4 is

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actually getting a little bit more

personal about it, so we could be

119

seeing a little bit more blending of it.

120

But I understand what

you're saying is that.

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Yeah, you can let, you can have it

write it, but you go back through

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it and try to put more personality

into it, is what I'm hearing.

123

Phillipa Gamse: And that's what I'm,

I'm just saying that, this isn't my

124

area of specific expertise, but I'm

certainly seeing advice that you

125

shouldn't use it for your final product.

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Brett Deister: Yeah that's fair.

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And what have you seen

in the B2B marketing?

128

Have you seen any of the emerging

technologies being used Very much.

129

Have you seen like any of the websites,

like any of that type of stuff, have

130

you seen that being prevalent in B2B

as it still really stuck in the B2C

131

and 'cause I know B2B is a little bit

more slowly transitions to more of

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the new herd technology, but they wait

a lot longer than the B2C portions.

133

Phillipa Gamse: Yeah I think it,

it depends what you're selling

134

and what kind of a company you are

and sites are very innovative.

135

So I'm not sure that's a

specifically B2B B2C distinction.

136

There are also plenty of pizza

sea sites that are still not as

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sophisticated as they should be.

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Could be, I should say.

139

Brett Deister: And for the digital

analytics, what should marketers

140

be focusing on now or in 2024?

141

Because Google's always switching their

stuff around, so what is specifically

142

should they be looking at for, to

help their bosses understand like

143

what's being, what's the success

and what do they need to work on?

144

Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, so honestly,

the biggest mistake that I see

145

businesses making with analytics

is what I was talking about in the

146

beginning, is that it's the same thing.

147

They jump in and.

148

They look for what should I see here?

149

And on Google Analytics or any

analytics platform I, there

150

are a lot of default reports.

151

So there's massive numbers of reports,

massive amounts of charts and numbers.

152

And if you don't dunno what you're

looking for, you can get completely

153

overwhelmed and you are unlikely to get

anything out of it that's actually useful.

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Unless you have that strategy in place

so that you can go to the analytics and

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say this is what we're trying to do.

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These are the KPIs, these

are the metrics that.

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Our measures of success, whether that's

growing conversions by X percent,

158

growing the number of people who read

our blog posts getting more leads,

159

whatever it is that you're trying to

do, or reducing our cost of acquisition.

160

Unless you're looking at the numbers

with a question in mind it's difficult

161

to get useful things out of it.

162

On the other hand a lot of

people hate GA four, right?

163

Because it's certainly not.

164

Simple.

165

It's not easy.

166

It's complex to implement in a really

fully customized way, but if you do,

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there are amazing rewards for it because

it can really drill down into your

168

data and give you some insights that.

169

You are likely not to have seen

without that ability to really

170

get into what you're looking at.

171

You can, especially using a tool

like Google Tag Manager, you

172

can really customize to get,

to really into what you want.

173

Are a podcast host, right?

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So for example, most podcast

sites have a long list of

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episodes on their website, right?

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So the latest webs, the latest

episode goes at the top of the list

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and everything else moves down one.

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And what you end up with is a

huge amount of amazing content

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that's essentially wasted because

nobody goes, nobody sees it.

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'cause it's too far down the page, right?

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And one of the things that you can

do in analytics is do things like,

182

see how far down the page people look

or if there are specific topics or

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categories of content that they're

interested in, which ones those are.

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So that you can really find

all sorts of ways to, to.

185

Leverage and continue to leverage the

content that you've got, rather than just

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having the one episode and after a couple

of weeks, it's got no traction anymore.

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And a lot of people don't really think

about this because they're not seeing the

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stats of who's consuming what content.

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Brett Deister: Well, talking podcasts

specifically, you're also competing

190

with Apple Podcast, Spotify, and all the

other ones that you put your podcast on.

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So you have podcasters have a very

unique, like competition from their

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own podcast on a different site because

the other different site is more

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reputable, but than your own website.

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Phillipa Gamse: But and in, you talked

about, B2B, for example, something

195

else that I see a lot of that, that the

businesses aren't aware of is if is video.

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So with a tool like GA four,

you can literally get into, if

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you've got YouTube video right?

198

Embedded on your website I mean you can

do this on YouTube too, but if you've got

199

video on your website, how many people

watch the video and how much of the video

200

do they watch, which is more important.

201

And a lot of people don't realize,

in general, about 50% of your

202

audience for your video drop

off in the first 30 seconds.

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That's huge.

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And by, by about a minute.

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You've lost 90%.

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I've seen this again and again.

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Unless, which is why when you start

your video, you've gotta say, here's

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the reason you should watch this video.

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And if you watch it all the

way through to the end, I'll be

210

telling you something amazing.

211

And I, you've really got to grab people

and tell them why they need to watch it.

212

And so many businesses spend a lot

of money and resources on making

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video that frankly nobody watches.

214

Again and they don't

know that's happening.

215

So Yeah, it's,

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Brett Deister: Yeah, it's that and just

the, I guess the popularity of short form

217

content has made people not willing to

spend as much time trying to figure out

218

if they really wanna listen to it, they'll

tell, they'll probably spend even less

219

probably spend about maybe generously

three seconds on a video and then they'll.

220

They'll go off somewhere else

because TikTok and shorts and

221

reels have really made attention

spans even worse than before.

222

Phillipa Gamse: But those

offer entertainment.

223

If your video is an informational video,

if the information's good, and again,

224

if you make it compelling and you tell

people what's coming up, they will

225

watch it if they need that information.

226

So it depends on the nature

of the video as well.

227

Brett Deister: True.

228

It depends on your audience, depends on

the nature of the video and it depends

229

on the industry itself at the same time.

230

Because I mean if people are

specifically looking for the industry

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your video could do very well.

232

But if it's a very popular industry,

it could do not as well if maybe 'cause

233

it's not as highly produced or whatever.

234

So there's a lot of factors in video

because video is something that even

235

podcasters need to consider, but.

236

You can be forgiven for having

less quality video, but your

237

audio has to be good because

people cannot stand bad audio.

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah.

239

And podcasts of course, are the sort

of flavor of the month right now.

240

They've been for a while, yeah.

241

So audio definitely important.

242

Brett Deister: Yeah, and just

from stats that I've seen with

243

podcasting, they say that.

244

In the morning afternoon, people

will listen to the audio, but at

245

night they'll listen to video.

246

So you also have to consider like

people's habits on when they listen

247

to audio, to when listen to video.

248

And that could actually

help businesses as well too.

249

Maybe they just release it their video

later at tonight and they release

250

their, and all that stuff because

everything's about timing sometimes,

251

and you have to figure this out.

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Phillipa Gamse: Which again is back

to analytics because that's the kind

253

of thing that you can see is, what's

the most popular day of the week,

254

if that's relevant, time of day that

people are consuming the most content.

255

Or, and again, one of the great things

about analytics is that you can drill

256

down and segment your audience into

different categories because looking

257

at all of your visitors in one.

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Conglomerate mass doesn't work.

259

'cause people are doing

things for different reasons.

260

So it's not just who watches

your video, but looking at the

261

outcomes of watching your video.

262

So if your video's designed to create an

action I don't know, buy something, sign

263

up for a list, whatever it is, when do

your most qualified visitors watch video?

264

So not just when do all visitors

watch video, but when do your most,

265

your best visitors watch video?

266

And you can get to that

level of granularity and

267

that can be really helpful.

268

Brett Deister: Yeah, it.

269

Like I said, it's all about timing.

270

You're right, like

granular, you can do this.

271

But for SEO specifically, is content

more the forefront now given with GA

272

four is are, is Google caring more

about the authenticity of content?

273

Because I know before it's been like just.

274

Back links and like they said, it has to

be a good back link, not a bad back link

275

because everybody was just throwing back

links at it just to get their website.

276

So are we gonna see that

more with content too?

277

Good to content versus bad content?

278

Because everybody can make content

and then you have to consider if it's

279

actually gonna be good, trustworthy,

educational, and all that stuff.

280

Are we gonna see more of that with

Google changing their algorithms?

281

So they always change

that CO all the time.

282

Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, no, we already are.

283

Google is much more focused now

on the value of the content.

284

Is it helpful to the audience?

285

Do the audience spend time on it?

286

You, what Google doesn't wanna

see is that they go, they click on

287

a link in Google through to your

site, and then they bounce back.

288

Because what that tells Google

is that content isn't useful.

289

So these days, quality engagement value

is much more important than the, in some

290

ways than the backlinks and the keywords

and which is still obviously very key.

291

But yes, quality is really important.

292

I.

293

Brett Deister: And so should let's say

B2B want to get into more video focused

294

because they haven't been video focused.

295

Should they use AI to help, like

maybe do the ideation part of it?

296

Because AI is great for helping people.

297

I should, you shouldn't just, you trust

AI completely and be like, do it all

298

for me, because I've seen videos of

AI creating videos and they're weird.

299

They're really weird.

300

So should they help

start that process off?

301

'cause I'm pretty sure a

lot of marketers aren't.

302

Versed in video production.

303

Phillipa Gamse: Oh yeah.

304

No, it's great for ideation and for

generate me 20 potential titles for this

305

video so that, I can see which one I like.

306

That kind of stuff is very

fun to do and very helpful.

307

Yeah, no I wasn't saying

to discount AI at all.

308

Obviously you can't and you but you

need to think about what you want it

309

to do for you so that the way that

you prompt it is gets you the sorts

310

of responses that are helpful to you.

311

Brett Deister: That's true.

312

It's almost like Google search.

313

If you do the wrong prompt, you're

never gonna get the right answer.

314

And I've used some of it.

315

I've used Bard's a little bit

better on like creating scripts

316

and Jet GPT is good for like

specific answers to your questions.

317

So like

318

for this should, is there a

difference between which ones they

319

should be using and for ai like.

320

Do you have any ways of

creating the successful prompts?

321

Because prompts are just kinda

like the bread and butter for ai.

322

So do you have any insight into

creating good prompts for ai?

323

Phillipa Gamse: I'm finding

that you learn as you go along.

324

You, the it's, the experience

also tells you what kind of, of

325

what you're gonna get back and

therefore what's gonna work for you.

326

And again, I should say that AI isn't.

327

My specific expertise.

328

I don't wanna give you a list of tools.

329

I've tried various things but I think

businesses that wanna use it should,

330

because there are so many tools, you

need to figure out which one's gonna work

331

for the specific needs that you have.

332

Brett Deister: Yeah.

333

There's always one popping up.

334

I can't even keep up with all the

tools popping up that are featuring ai.

335

And I'm like, okay, I'm now like, is

this really gonna help me or is this

336

just another tool to play around with?

337

Phillipa Gamse: And in some ways

when it says featuring ai, to

338

some extent you could argue it is

been around for a while already.

339

And that essentially using a

computer is using a form of ai.

340

So, maybe not very sophisticated,

but, I, it's, yeah.

341

Brett Deister: You could even

say going further back, like

342

machine learning was, the.

343

Precursor to AI because machine learning

was learning things and it gave you,

344

for the most part, it was not bad.

345

Google Assistant, which is

machine learning, is pretty

346

good at giving you answers.

347

It's not a hundred percent correct,

but it's 80 something percent.

348

I think it's 80% correct.

349

So you could say that machine learning was

like the precursor to what AI is trying

350

to become is the best way of saying it.

351

And what are some of like

traditional tactics that B2B

352

should still consider using?

353

Because we could talk about the future

stuff, all the all we want, but we always

354

know that like word of mouth is king.

355

Like you can never not say enough about

word of mouth because word of mouth just

356

is the thing that you can never replace.

357

So what traditional marketing

tactics should they should still

358

be considered, including SEO?

359

Phillipa Gamse: You know, I think I've

360

which is now, what, 16 years ago I think

361

big headline article called Email is Dead.

362

And the premise was

nobody uses email anymore.

363

It's boring, millennials don't

like it, et cetera, et cetera.

364

And here we are in 2024 and every

marketing survey that you look at that

365

says, how do marketers prefer, or what's

the best quality communication tool?

366

Email is right up there.

367

It hasn't gone anywhere.

368

So that's one that, that, you can't ignore

email and, keeping your list clean and

369

so that it's up to date and doing all

those kinds of things really important.

370

One of the biggest mistakes that I

continue to see apart from not creating

371

your strategy in the first place.

372

Is lack of calls to action.

373

So it's still amazing to me the number

of websites where, you've got a page

374

of incredible information, maybe a

blog or maybe a video, whatever it is.

375

And there's nothing that says,

okay, what do you, wait, what?

376

What do you want me to do now?

377

How can I get this?

378

How can you help me with this?

379

And it's amazing to me that people

forget the call to action or they put

380

the call to action, at the bottom of

the page, assuming that everybody's

381

gonna read all the way down to the

end of the page, which not many people

382

do, which is back to the analytics can

tell you where people tend to fall off.

383

Scrolling down a page.

384

And I say to people, there's absolutely

no reason why you shouldn't have your

385

call to action several times on the

page so that people see it and they

386

see it at the point where based on your

content, they're probably saying if

387

they're gonna be interested, they're

probably saying, okay, how do I get this?

388

Tell me more.

389

Those kinds of engagement emotions.

390

That's where you want a call to action.

391

And it it's just, it's amazing, as I

said to me, how many people how many

392

sites still don't do that effectively.

393

Brett Deister: So it's still like back

to the traditional press release of

394

making sure everything's importance on

the first paragraph at least, maybe a

395

little bit further down, but at least

somewhere in the top where people be like,

396

oh, can I click this to go over here?

397

And then making sure you have

the sales aspect of marketing.

398

'cause marketing is.

399

Like really closely tied with sales.

400

So you have to have a you

should sign up for this.

401

We'll give you like a free thing if

you sign up for our email newsletter

402

or some type of call to action.

403

I.

404

So you, you're seeing a lot of businesses

still forget the call to action part.

405

Phillipa Gamse: Yes.

406

Yeah, absolutely.

407

I'm I'm saying you've got to have a

strategy for your digital marketing.

408

You've gotta have a strategy for

your website, but not only a strategy

409

for your website in terms of what

do you want that the site as a whole

410

to doing, but essentially, every

page of your site should have, its.

411

Strategy.

412

So for every page of content that

you have, you wanna be saying

413

what do I want people to do as

a result of seeing this page?

414

And I mean it, it's unlikely.

415

Your answer to that would be that's fine.

416

They can just go away.

417

You probably want them to do something,

and if you want them to do something,

418

you've gotta tell 'em what that

is and you've gotta tell 'em how

419

to do it and make it really easy.

420

Because if you don't, and again,

you know with analytics, you can

421

see the paths that people take.

422

You can see how people

move through the site.

423

So you can see how many people drop off.

424

You can see where do they go to next.

425

And the majority of the time, it's

not where you would want them to go.

426

And many site owners, designers, et

cetera, they're it's not your fault.

427

You're so close to your own site

that a number of people who've said

428

to me, but Philippa, it's obvious

because they're so close to it.

429

And I say no.

430

It's obvious to you, but it's

not obvious to somebody who's

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seeing this for the first time.

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So you have to drive people

to the outcomes that you want.

433

Brett Deister: So it's almost like

trying, and I did this for one company

434

where they gave me a software and I

was pretending to be like someone new.

435

And I was like, okay, where

are the pain points here?

436

Where am I going?

437

Okay, this is confusing.

438

It's almost like you have to get in that

mindset of, I've never done this before.

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Where am I going?

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And is this the, is

this where I need to go?

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Phillipa Gamse: User testing.

442

One of the great ways to do

user testing is to give somebody

443

who has never seen your site

before, as you said a task to do.

444

And just walk away.

445

Stand behind them.

446

If you wanna watch where you can obviously

record it as well, but don't prompt them.

447

Stand back and watch how they go about it.

448

And that can be incredibly informative

about what's obvious and what's not.

449

Another piece of it is the

search engine on your site.

450

So if you talking B2B many B2B sites could

really benefit from a good search engine.

451

That actually searches there

the site itself, right?

452

And that, and again, going to the

analytics that can be gold, a gold

453

mine because you can track the searches

that were done in the analytics and

454

Google Analytics will do this, but

so will other good analytics tools.

455

So you can see what people

are actually looking for.

456

And that can be a real

educational gold mine because I.

457

It.

458

It tells you, for example, how people

think about your products and services.

459

So what words do they use to look

for what they're expecting to find?

460

And that may be different, like especially

with industries that have a ton of jargon.

461

If the people who are buying your f

your stuff are not familiar with your

462

jargon, your internal terms for things,

then you might be using words on your

463

website that they don't recognize.

464

And I, again, I've seen

this with technology type

465

manufacturing type companies.

466

So you wanna think about what

words do my visitors use to find

467

stuff that they're looking for?

468

And structure your content

around those words.

469

You can teach them your jargon

once you've got them but first

470

of all, you've got to get them.

471

It also tells you.

472

What kinds of things your visitors are

looking for that they clearly expect to

473

find at your site that you don't provide?

474

'cause that's great

product research, right?

475

What do people expect you to be

offering them that you're not offering?

476

And may and I've certainly worked

with clients where we've looked at

477

those kinds of things and we've come

up with new products or services

478

based on, hey, yeah, they're right.

479

We have that expertise.

480

We just never thought of offering

whatever it is they're looking for.

481

And so the site search can be an amazing

research tool and a lot of times you

482

know that little magnifying glass

that's right at the top of the page in

483

the nav bar, and as soon as somebody

scrolls down the page, it's gone.

484

And then they're not gonna think

that there's a search engine.

485

Same thing kind of thing

as the call to action.

486

If there's something on the site

that's really gonna help them and

487

help you, then you know, don't bury

it so that they can, they bury.

488

Few people will even know it's there.

489

Brett Deister: So yeah, for the jargon.

490

Even in marketing, like SEO search

engine optimization, like API KPIs,

491

like all this other and that's the

all basically digital marketing.

492

Jargon.

493

It's almost like your website needs

like a dictionary page just for all

494

your jargon so people understand, or

at least a hover thing where it's like

495

this is what this means for those.

496

'cause in pr if we're saying something

new, we have to describe it and then

497

afterwards we don't describe it anymore.

498

'cause we've already told you what it is.

499

So should they be thinking in those

terms for jargon specifically?

500

Because you are gonna

get customers that are.

501

That, know your jargon, but you're

also gonna get new customers that don't

502

know your jargon at the same time.

503

So let's say for example, you're

a B2B computer company, building

504

up computers, and you use CPUs,

GPUs, and all the other jargon.

505

Everybody's wait, what does

that what does that mean?

506

Like CPU is like the, it's a processor

and the GPU is the graphics card.

507

And people go, oh, okay.

508

I know what that means now.

509

So how do they help with

all that jargony stuff?

510

Because you can't get away from it.

511

'cause you're gonna, you're gonna,

if you know the industry well, you're

512

gonna, you're gonna use the jargon

because it helps you talk faster in some

513

ways, but also helps you like bridge

that gap between the experts as well.

514

So how do you.

515

How does a marketer bridge that

gap between the expert and the new

516

person that's just coming to your

website for the first time and

517

going, what the hell does that mean?

518

Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, and I first of

all, I glossary certainly used to be a

519

really good SEO tool 'cause it basically

just contains a load of keywords.

520

I I actually don't.

521

No, that's totally true at the moment.

522

But that's interesting because I've worked

with actually I've worked with computer

523

components, software component company,

for example, that was one of my clients.

524

And they would say things like,

look, don't worry about it,

525

because our buyers are techies.

526

They know the language,

they know the jargon.

527

We don't have to worry about this.

528

And I said, are you sure about that?

529

Because imagine that.

530

A buyer or the techie guy

says, okay, I want this.

531

And they go to the CFO

and they say, I want this.

532

And the CFO might say, okay, but how

do I know that this is a reputable

533

company before I write the check?

534

So they, or that department

might go to the website to do

535

due diligence on the company.

536

They don't care about the technical stuff.

537

They wanna know this is a real

company that we can depend on and

538

trust and we can send our money to.

539

And so at least.

540

The about Us page.

541

Every company, every B2B company

should have an about us page.

542

Who are we, what do we do?

543

Who are our principle people?

544

And that should be in English

or in, in other words, in your

545

vernacular without jargon.

546

And it's interesting again you can use

analytics to ask, answer a basic question

547

like how many people who are new to

my website go to our About us page?

548

'cause it's a lot.

549

If they don't know you, they're gonna

look there to find out who you are.

550

And in my humble opinion, that

should be a page that is not full

551

of jargon because that's where you

just wanna impress people, that

552

you are a real trustworthy entity.

553

Brett Deister: That makes, yeah, that

makes a lot of sense because as you.

554

I always said, you can't get away from

jargon, but you at least can have some

555

pages that are jargon free or jargon

less, or don't have as much jargon in it.

556

Or you explain the jargon within

the actual about page too,

557

Phillipa Gamse: but you

also have to assume.

558

That there will be visitors to your

website who are not industry experts,

559

who are there because, and bankers,

insurers, other types of people

560

that you interact with will come to

your site to do that due diligence.

561

I actually worked with a company once it

got refused an insurance policy because it

562

was something they said on their website.

563

But, and you have to be aware of that.

564

There are people that

are checking you out.

565

They're not customers, they're

not potential customers, but your

566

website is important in playing a

role in your relationship with them.

567

Brett Deister: And so what do you see

the future of B2B marketing going?

568

Do you see like more ai,

do you see more of the.

569

Traditional parts.

570

Going back to just like making sure

that you have a newsletter or that

571

you email is just as important as

all the other new technologies.

572

Like where do you see the B2B marketing,

573

I.

574

Phillipa Gamse: So I'm not a

futurist, but honestly like I said,

575

I've been doing this for a while.

576

I think the way we do stuff okay,

now we have AI or different tools,

577

different techniques for doing things.

578

The basics, the fundamentals

don't really change.

579

So as a business, in order to

sell stuff, you've got to prove,

580

you've gotta have social proof,

you've gotta have credibility.

581

You've got to appear to be focused

on quality being trustworthy.

582

Relationships, et cetera.

583

And how that's done might evolve but

that fundamental doesn't go away.

584

And I also, as I keep also coming back

to the fundamental of having a clear

585

marketing strategy with measurable

goals shouldn't go away either.

586

How, again, however you do that just

because there are new, bright, shiny

587

objects around to play with that shouldn't

negate the importance of having strategy.

588

Brett Deister: So where can people

find you online to learn more about

589

your expertise and just SEO in general?

590

Phillipa Gamse: I'm, as I said,

I'm more of an analytics and

591

strategy person than the SEO.

592

So you are welcome to look me up on

LinkedIn and I'd love to connect with

593

anybody that's watching the program.

594

And my website is websites win.

595

So websites@win.com and I do have

actually a, an ebook, which I'm about to

596

put on my website, but if you ping me,

I'll be happy to send it to you anyway.

597

Which is some real life stories of how

we've used analytics to come up with

598

an insight that we wouldn't have known

without that data that's allowed us

599

to significantly grow the business.

600

Brett Deister: Alright,

any final thoughts?

601

Phillipa Gamse: Thank you very much.

602

It's been fun.

603

And thank you for asking about

tea and coffee at the beginning.

604

That was fun.

605

And let me let me ask you what do

you think was the most important

606

message that we put out today?

607

Brett Deister: Most important message

was even if all the new technology

608

is there there's a few of 'em.

609

Basics is still king.

610

Like traditional marketing

will still never go away.

611

Just because you put jargon on

there doesn't mean that everybody's,

612

everybody understands your jargon.

613

You need to appeal to the new

customers, plus the old customers or the

614

experienced customers at the same time.

615

Phillipa Gamse: And keep thinking

about your strategy and keep thinking

616

about what you want people to do next.

617

Brett Deister: Yes.

618

Always look at the customer

journey on your website.

619

All right.

620

Thank you for joining Digital

Coffee Marketing Brew and sharing

621

your knowledge on analytics and

digital marketing and B2B marketing.

622

Phillipa Gamse: Great.

623

Thank you so much.

624

It's been great to be with you.

625

Brett Deister: And thank you as well.

626

Please subscribe to this

podcast with all your favorite

627

podcasting apps and user review.

628

You'll just help join us next week

as you talk to the great belt leader

629

in the PR and marketing industry.

630

Alright guys, stay safe,

understanding your analytics and

631

your SEO and your customer journey,

and see you next week later.