Beka Overby is a worship pastor, wife, and mama to two young boys. The Overby Family lives in SE Portland. Beka is passionate about adoption education and reform and is actively involved in ongoing adoption conversations and the creation of safe spaces for birth mothers to find support, healing and quality long term care. Her own story of ongoing healing and restoration is the driving force behind her advocacy. In this episode Beka vulnerably shares her story of cultivating a grateful spirit, even amidst immense pain and hardship.

Welcome to the Collide Podcast. We're a growing community of everyday chicks colliding with Jesus in our mess, our pain, our joy, and our stories.

We value showing up as we truly are, so that's what you'll find here. Walls and masks being torn down so that we can allow Jesus to meet us where we truly are and hear about other women doing the same.

We can't wait to collide with you.

Everything I've been through could be bracing me for the next thing you know, like that's the reality. And so better to become a woman who trusts and follows and is grateful in, in and through every season because it will prepare me for the next one.

Welcome to the Collide Podcast. I'm Willow Weston, the founder and director of Collide and today I get to hang out with you and a super cool chick name Becca Overby.

She is a worship pastor, she is a wife to Seth and a mama to Jones and Shepard. And the Over B family lives in Southeast Portland. I'm super jealous.

Becca is passionate about adoption, education and reform and is actively involved in ongoing adoption conversations and the creation of safe spaces for birth mothers to find support, healing and quality long term care. Her own story of ongoing healing and restoration is the driving force behind her advocacy.

And today we get to hear a bit of her story as she hops on this podcast in the middle of this series on gratitude. And today I really want to talk to her about finding gratitude in hard places and hardship.

And so Becca, thank you for being brave and hopping on and having this convo with me today.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, so as I said, we're in a series on the Clyde podcast about gratitude and kind of seeking to find hope and faith and thanks even in the midst of hard things.

And you came highly recommended to be a guest interview because some of our mutual friends highly respect the way that you've been able to find hope and redemption out of hardship in your own life.

And so I'm just wondering if we can dive right in and you can invite us all the way back to be being a teenager when some true hardship came your way.

Yeah, I. Well, just for some context, I did grow up in a, in an amazing Christian home.

My parents have loved and followed Jesus since their teenage years and I grew up in a very safe space where I knew of Jesus and his ways most of my life.

But when I was 16 in high school, like a lot of kids that age, I was experimenting in different ways and deep in a relationship with my high school boyfriend, at the time, and it was the summer between my sophomore and junior years of high school that I, my life was changed when I took a pregnancy test and it showed that I was pregnant. I think in that moment I just felt like a living cliche of 16 and pregnant.

I think at the time, like MTV was doing their, you know, teenage mom series and I was just like, this is my life now. This is me. And I was very afraid. I think being involved in the church in the ways that I was.

I was very active in my youth group, just super connected and had great mentorship in every way. I think on paper I was, you know, a great kid. I got good grades and was on my student council, blah, blah, blah.

Well, yeah, my life just took a huge pivot in that moment. And I remember telling my parents, I waited three months to tell them, oh, wow.

Yeah, I was aware enough of like pregnancy and like getting into the second trimester and how critical that is. And I think, you know, in looking back, to be quite candid, I hoped that I wouldn't, the baby would not carry.

And I say that now with so much humility and so much love for my son that eventually was, he was born. But I wanted the situation to go away and I wanted to be normal.

And I think at that, you know, ripe age of 16, I just knew that my life wasn't going to be normal in the same way that I thought it should be. So when I told my parents, there I was met with grace upon grace upon grace.

I think one thing I can say with such confidence is that they never showed me the door, they never judged me. I remember when I told them, I said, you know, you've told me your whole, my whole life that no matter what happens, you'll love me.

No matter what I do, you'll always love me. And I'm cashing in on that today. And I told them, they were shocked, but yeah, they met me in that.

I think that because I grew up in this culture of like evangelical Christianity where we are kind of taught and trained that the solution to an unwanted pregnancy is adoption. That's always the right thing to do. It's the noble thing to do. It's the brave thing to do. We like to use words like that.

And you know, and I agree, I think some of that is true. But when I told my parents, I think in my, you know, a little 16 year old heart, I just so badly wanted to fix the situation.

And I felt that by saying, and going this route of placing my son for adoption, that Somehow it would rectify what was happening, that it would, you know, help me not be judged as harshly by my church community. You know, if, you know, Becca got pregnant, but she's giving her baby to a couple that wants a baby. So I think there's. It's very nuanced.

But, yeah, that was kind of how I entered into that.

Wow.

Yeah.

Well, so let's rewind back to. I mean, I have so many questions for you, but let's rewind back to you carrying a baby for three months alone at the age of 16.

Alone, as in no one knew?

Yeah, My. My boyfriend at the time knew. And, you know, I think that for. Everyone responds to these types of situations differently.

And I have a lot of grace for him, and he did not come from home that extended the same support as mine. So when I got pregnant, the focus was a lot around his concern that we were going to have to break up. And it was. It was all very juvenile, like.

But I kept thinking, as he's lamenting what he, you know, assumed would be the end of us, I just remember just thinking, like, you're going to college. Because he had just graduated. You're leaving, going to college.

And I am the one who's in the middle of high school, pregnant, with no idea what to do. And so I think that by the time I eventually did tell my parents, I was so afraid. But it was such a relief to have someone else in that.

And I think that that is such a common thing with shame. Like when you feel ashamed or you feel burdened or when you extend that yoke to someone else.

Even in this context of sharing my story, I always say every time that I share my story, I'm sharing a little piece of my shame or grief or trauma. But at that same time, it actually lifts some of it for me because I believe in the healing work of honesty and sharing and how that heals people.

And so in that moment, I received that first expression of healing when I told my parents, because it was, I'm not alone anymore. So.

And what a beautiful moment where you basically came to them and said, I'm cashing in on everything you've ever promised me. Yeah.

I mean, in a sense, like, you must have really, really begun to believe that what they had told you was available to you, which was grace and unconditional love, that it actually might be available to you. I guess I just think about so many girls who have been in your. That didn't feel like they could cash in on that.

Oh, totally. It's Heartbreaking.

And I think now, you know, as I work with birth moms in different support groups or whatever context, like pregnancy resource centers, whatever it may be, that is the part that I just feel is so, like, remarkably different about my story, is that my parents, like, showed up for me. And it's the kind of thing that, as a parent, like, you want to be that way. Like, I want to be that way with my sons.

Because the reality is that whether your child gets pregnant, gets someone pregnant is, you know, whatever their. Whatever your child's thing is, there will come a day that your child will need that from you as a parent. And so it was just modeled so well to me.

And I'm all. I will be forever grateful for how they walked and journeyed that with me. And it wasn't perfect. Not every step was perfect at all. And they.

We learned as we went, and. But they were there for me.

How do you think that shaped your view of God? I mean, I think there's a lot of people who have Christian parents who have kind of raised them and told them, this is what you need to believe.

This is, you know, the choices you need to make. But to have your parents actually show you the kind of unconditional love that Christ shows us, that's.

That's different than just telling you, you know, what you should believe.

Totally. I. I agree. I think you've said it perfectly. I. Even my own, specifically my dad. I just think for.

To grow up in the home that I did with a father who is so involved in my life and so there for me, it's shaped me as a woman. Like, I think. And I. And I.

Not to say that people who don't have that same experience can't experience fullness or understand the love of God in the way that. But it has played a huge role in that for me, and I'm so thankful to them, to both of them.

Yeah. Wow. Incredible. So here you are, you're in the second trimester.

You tell your parents and invite us into this decision that you ended up making on what to do with your baby.

Yeah. So I touched on this earlier. I think that I. When I told my parents I was pregnant, it was, I'm pregnant, and I want to give the baby up for adoption.

Like, it was within one breath. Like, this was the thing that I chose. I. I do not feel that they pressured me towards that.

I do think that my rearing, I guess my raising influenced me heavily to think that that was the option that I should choose. And my youngest sister is Adopted. So I have that, you know, peace in my family. It's not foreign to me.

I think a lot of women who do go this route have some sort of connection to adoption to kind of help, you know, understand what that might look like. But Also, you know, 17 years ago, open adoption, because that is what I have with my son and his family, was not a common thing at all.

Like, it was, a baby's born in the hospital. You place that baby, and you never see that baby again. So for me, I entered into that, telling my parents that this was the route I wanted to go.

And right away, as word kind of trickled out, I guess, because that's just what happens when someone's pregnant. Everybody knows and everybody's talking about you. And I. I had people coming to me, essentially. I never.

I think in a traditional context of finding a family for your child, you imagine or you go through an agency, but you look through a book of cut families who want a baby. And, like, that wasn't my experience, although that is the most common experience.

But for me, it was actually a family that I already knew, that I had grown up knowing. So my son's adoptive mom, she's 10 years older than me, I went to their wedding like it was.

They're close enough to where I felt very comfortable with where he was going. It was, I would say, it's. It's borderline. A kinship adoption.

A kinship adoption is super common, where an aunt and uncle will step in and take on a child, which is, honestly my youngest sister, is a kinship adoption. So, anyway, all that to be said, this wasn't. They weren't strangers to me, which I think strongly facilitated the openness that we now experience.

What was that like in that moment, handing over and letting go of this baby that had grown in your womb? Yeah,.

I think, well, leading up to the birth, it was this position of. And I journaled this. I want to be pregnant forever because I know that the moment that he is born, he will be gone from me.

I think that placing your child in this way. I think that people lose children a lot through death, which is tragic. And it's its own tragedy and its own bundle of emotions.

And mine isn't worse or better. It's just different. I think that when you step into giving your child away to another mother, it's very unnatural.

You're entering into a very unnatural scenario. And I think that, you know, abnormal reactions come from abnormal situations, and that's normal. So I think that anybody's.

My point in that is anybody who's been through what I've been through. Their response and reactions to such an abnormal scenario range very widely is all I can say, if that makes sense.

And so, well, in, in recent, more recent adoption studies, it is actually like qualified, placing a child as qualified as, as trauma. So when you go through a trauma, you experience fight or flight, different people respond differently to trauma.

And for me initially, in those first years, I just really buried it under, under the blanket of I did the right thing. And I think anybody who spoke to me, at least in my circles, I mean, because you kind of, you know, you're in your own circle.

And in my bubble, people were saying, oh, you're so, you are so brave. You did the right thing. What a sacrifice, what a gift.

And I think that those things, like Assange that grief didn't really deeply, but I think it helped me cope to imagine that instead of people thinking of me as slutty or a wayward child or a screw up, that, no, she really redeemed the situation by giving the baby to someone else. And so obviously those emotions have evolved over time, but that's kind of how I coped. And I went, I finished well while I was pregnant.

I finished high school, I did two years in one, graduated by the time he was born because I didn't want to go back to high school, where I just couldn't really relate to people my own age anymore. I think when you go through, like, my friends in high school were like, what prom dress am I going to wear?

Or I got to study for this sat, and I was like, I just gave my baby away, like, so I couldn't really connect very well anymore.

So I went straight off to Multnomah, where I studied theology and music and just tried to put on the best face and bury a narrative that people don't love to hear. If that is okay to say. Just, just the trauma of loss that I experienced.

Tell me why, when you say you buried a narrative people don't love to hear, what, what is that narrative that people don't want to hear?

Well, I, I think in general that when we hear about adoption, at least in my circles and in my, you know, evangelical Christian bubble, I think that adoptive parents are. That's. That's who we're hearing from. Okay, so in an adoption triad, you have the adopted child who everything should center around the child.

You have the adoptive parents who usually are coming with their own bundle of trauma and loss, whether they've lost a child, whether they have infertility issues and can't conceive. But then, okay, this is our solution, is that we're going to find a baby and we're going to raise a baby. And, you know, and I think.

And I just feel that in general, birth moms are not heard. They're not. They're not invited to the table.

I think that for me, I think at my stage now in life, I, you know, whether I'm invited to the table or not, I'll bring my folding chair and bring voice. Bring voice to this experience that I think is so important. And it's important.

I think it's so important for adoptive parents to see and understand the grief, because I. So many hopeful adoptive parents enter into that, and they don't have the. I don't know, the education to.

To say, like, this is actually, like, so happy for your family. But the levels and the ripples of grief for this other side don't ever end.

Like, my son is 17 and it doesn't end like, and my parents gave away their, you know, first grandchild. That doesn't end.

So even in the best of open adoption situations, it is a huge loss, and it is full of grief, and it can coexist with joy where it's not exclusive. But I think that it's just being comfortable with saying, yes, women who lose their children, and that's.

I'm not just talking about teenage girls that get pregnant. I'm talking about women who have drug addiction and whose children are placed in foster care.

Like, those women also deserve dignity and an acknowledgement of their grief. And we are so quick to say we need to rescue these babies or rescue women in these situations when really sometimes they just need resources.

I mean, I'm. I want to dig into this more, and I'm almost afraid to because I don't want to say the wrong thing.

And I think that almost shows us that we don't talk about this enough.

Yes.

So, by the way, you are pulling up a chair at a table where there's already a chair for you here, you know, on this podcast. But I'm listening to you talk, and I'm thinking. I mean, this is absolutely crazy that I think a lot of people, they'll.

They'll judge you because you're pregnant and want to give away your child, or they'll tell. And this is what I'm kind of hearing you say, or they'll tell you you're brave for doing something.

But then the spotlight kind of goes on these, like, superhero parents who are adopting, and then you're left with this grief.

But are you kind of saying that there's almost like, not a lot of compassion for the trauma because in some sense it's somehow your fault because you're being judged for not being able to take care of the baby? I mean, is that the experience?

Well, it's.

I.

Yes. I would say for me personally, there was so much shame wrapped around, you know, having sex outside of marriage, let alone as a teenager.

So I guess a baby. I feel like I've experienced very public shaming in my life in multiple different ways, which is totally different stories.

But I feel like a repeated thing in my life is that God has allowed me based on my own decisions. Like, I acknowledge fully that so many of the things that I've gone through in my life are as a result, directly of decisions that I've made.

And so, no, I don't blame God for my pregnancy.

I think, honestly, to be honest, I'm so thankful that I'm a person that has experienced public shame and like, public surfacing of sin in my life or whatever the result may be, because it has created in me a space where I'm a lot more compassionate towards people who go through things. And I don't know if I would naturally be that way given my personality, given my upbringing. Anyway, it's just.

It's allowed me space to look at situations and know that they're the nuances and the underlying things behind every story. And if we kind of narrow in on.

I'm speaking to adoption right now, but every adoptive story we are shown, like, you see a family post with their letter board, we're adopting or Gotcha day. Okay, so those things, when I see those posts with my lens and my experience, they're very triggering to me. And so.

But does that make sense that that's the repeated. At least in my circles, that's the repeated narrative of we just.

The solution to couples infertility or pregnant teenagers is just to give these babies to these families. And I just. I don't think that's always the right answer. I don't. And I think it's. I think sometimes it is the right answer.

I just don't think there's a formula, is my takeaway.

Well, it kind of sounds like you're inviting us to recognize that the women who are letting go of a baby and handing them over, they're left with the trauma of what that experience is. And we need to pay attention to what that would be like.

And the compassion and the care and the need and the helps that that a woman who's going through that kind of traumatic experience needs. Where it's almost like we move on after the baby's been handed over.

Exactly. And it's. Yeah. And I don't, I don't.

I say all this to say, like, my, my older sister, she has adopted three of her children and is about to adopt a fourth. So I have every level of compassion and support for adoptive parents. I'm definitely not, like, anti adoption.

I just, I just think that we like it to be very. We want life to be so neat and clean, and we have this problem and here's the solution. But birth mothers are often cast aside in that way.

And I don't say that with a victim mentality whatsoever. I think that in my processing over the last almost 18 years, I think I have vacillated between victim mentality and hero mentality.

Because you can be the hero because, oh, you did the right thing. You're so brave, blah, blah, blah. And that made me feel better. And then sometimes I would roll over to Woe is me.

No one acknowledges this pain, and nobody is like, you know. And so I think in that, for me, Jesus has. Has brought me through that.

So I, I, yeah, I can only, like, pivot the conversation at this point and just say that, yes, this is a very real and ongoing pain. I would say when I got pregnant with my second son, so my first son, Levi, was placed.

We have a very open relationship in the sense of I'm always welcome there at his home, so I can always have access to him. He's, I mean, practically an adult now. He's in his senior year.

I feel so bad for him with all this Covid stuff because he's not playing football and all these things, but we live, you know, 30 minutes away, and I have access. And that is a true sign of trust and love and care from his adopted mother. And that is what an open adoption looks like.

And that's a whole nother conversation. But however, when I got pregnant with Jones, my second son, I felt, surely this is going to redeem all of these years, like 14.

My, you know, it's 14 years between their births. And I thought, oh, man, I'm going to give birth to Jones and I'm going to. This going to fill this grief or it's going to fill this void.

And when he was born, I left the hospital with a baby. And the juxtaposed, like, scenario of leaving the hospital without Levi and then leaving the hospital with Jones was so triggering to me.

And I went into a deep funk because I just, you know, I, I finally had this baby that I so longed for, but I realized that this baby was not going to replace the one that I didn't get to parent. Like, no, no situation, no person, no spouse. Like there's no one that would ever be able to replace what was lost. Right.

And I think that's a hard thing to come to terms with, but I think it's healthy because once, you know, once I realized that and released those expectations of Jones, fulfilling this deep void for me, I loved parenting differently. I think I had my third son.

I'm a boy breeder over here, but there are times when I'll be putting Jones to bed at night and I just look at him and I say, jones, I just love being your mom. And he always replies, oh, I just love being your boy. And, and I just feel like a wave of loss for Levi.

So it's not, I, I say that to say not again, not like for victim, victimizing myself or being dramatic, but it truly is like a reliving of this loss as I parent my other children. Because I'm like, oh man, I never got to teach Levi how to ride a bike or I never got to send him to his first day of preschool.

And it's like a constant wheel turning of like love loving where I'm at with my, you know, my children that I do get to parent and grieving, continuing to grieve the loss of what I didn't get to experience.

I appreciate so much that you're being real with us about this and not just putting a shiny bow on it because I think so many women can resonate with, with the realness of this, regardless of if they can resonate with being a birth mother who gave a child up for adoption. It's just, you know, I just got done interviewing a couple who lost their 12 year old son to cancer.

And the way that they describe grief will be with them on this side of eternity. It is a character in their life.

Like, it's not, it's not like they're ever going to stop grieving because they're not only grieving, you know, the son who they love, but grieving, oh, he would have been in college, he would have been age of getting married, he would have been with his friends on a senior trip. I mean, it's all of these things are grieving. And so I think it's very real for those of us that have experienced loss to, to recognize it.

It's not like you go through some Sort of like loss boot camp. And then after two weeks, you're, you're like over and ready to move on. And I also think you're putting voice to the experience of really hop.

The really great thing that's coming into your life is going to make up for the big, huge abyss that you've experienced. I think, you know, we, as women, I've done this in the past, before I was married.

I think in relationships with men where it's like, oh, this, this is going to somehow fulfill this huge, like, loss that I experienced in another relationship. And it just doesn't work like that. So I love how real you're being.

I'm curious if you can, you know, here you are, years down the road, your boy that you gave up for adoption. You said he's a senior in high school. Have you been able to see hope and good and beauty come out of that chapter of hardship?

And it's not just a chapter, but it began years ago and it continues. Have you been able to see God's goodness come out of all of this?

Absolutely. I think, yeah. This, it's not all heavy. That's the thing. And I. And it has taken almost 18 years to get here.

And one thing that I have said in the past and I'll say here, is that my situation with an open adoption is really beautiful and it's kind of the model of what an adopted family would want. I think I am a well adjusted, safe birth mom.

I recognize that and I acknowledge that not every birth moment is safe and not every birth mom has done the work, you know, so I recognize that up front. But at the same time, adopted families will want, you know, the result that we have almost 18 years down the road. It's like I described.

You'd be like, you can't cook a Thanksgiving meal in a microwave. It takes time. And so like, it just takes time and it takes pain and it takes healing and then it takes pain again and then healing again. And I.

The good that, that I have seen in this is that there is a young man, Levi, who has life and he's wonderful. He. He's wonderful. He's. And I, his parents have raised him so beautifully.

Even the fact that he, you know, on his 14th birthday took him out and we were with a blazer game back when we could do this such things and you know, we chatted in the car and I always take the opportunity when I'm given, you know, when we're alone and I'm able to tell him, like, Levi, I want you to know that I love you with my whole heart not to weird you out because he is like a teenage boy.

I have one.

Yeah, my mother's heart for you has always been there and there were so many reasons why it led to like our life looks the way it does right now.

But I never want you to doubt my love and my heart towards you and you know, to have a 14 year old boy look at you and say I get it, I get why you did that. And I think you were so, you know, I just think for him to be able to express that is the sign of a well adjusted kid.

And I, you know, if he listens to this, I did text him this morning and told him we were going to interview because I like to ask his permission before I share our story because I think so many times adoptive parents or birth parents share stories about their child without their permission, like it's not our story to tell and pieces of this are just his. Like they're his. And I, I want to acknowledge and recognize that.

But you know, sometimes he does listen to the, my interviews or he sees my posts, which I'm pretty candidly open in those. But I, yeah, I just love that he knows me. I love that he doesn't hate me.

And did you have to walk a process? Did he always know you were his mom? Was there an age where he found.

Out you were his mom?

Was there an unforgiveness and you had to work through it? Or has it always just been he was openly accepting of you and knew you were his mom?

Great questions. So for us, his, so his adoptive mom, her name's Julie, I'll just call her by name.

Julie has always been upfront with him and honest that he was adopted like from birth. So she, she had, so Levi has an older brother, he's their bio child. They adopted Levi and then they went on to have two more children.

So two more biological children. You know, his older brother would say when Julie was pregnant, he would say, oh, did I grow in your tummy, mommy?

And she'd say, yes, you did, you know, if you did. And then Levi would say, and did I grow in your tummy? And she said, well no, you grew in another mommy's tummy.

And like just age appropriate responses for what was, what was in front of them. And it was when he was 10 years old that he and I went through, I mean I went through a period of time where I could not visit him.

So from birth until about the time he was 10, it was way too Traumatic for me to see him and then leave him again. It was just triggering. I would go into a funk for months and so I could not visit.

So the openness was really more directed towards my parents who visited him.

She would, his mom would send me, you know, wasn't really social media era, but she would send me photos and updates but I couldn't see him in person. It was like the intensity of looking at your own child in the face. I don't know, it was, it's. There's nothing like it.

So anyway, it was when he was about 10 years old that I started to read, you know, re engaged because I'd done a lot of work. I was definitely not fully, fully through everything.

But it was also around that time that he said to his mom, Julie, he said, you know, who's my birth mom? Like what's her name?

And she was putting, she was putting him to bed and she just looked at him and just said, well you know my friend Becca who you know, comes and visits us and her mom and dad, Steve and Leslie and well, Becca's actually your birth mom. She's the one who grew you and birthed you and loves you.

And she said, you know, Julie would say that she kind of was like held her breath and his response was just a deep sigh of relief. And he said, oh well, that doesn't change anything then. Like just the idea of that I'm not a stranger, I'm not scary, I'm not.

And so I think that our journey has just been, you know, as he gets older, like he's asked questions about his biological dad and his side of the family that, or like questions about, you know, my brother and what his interests are. Because I think as a young man, like you want to know where you come from.

And I think that the fact that his parents have allowed such openness and allowed me access and honestly like non threatened access because so many adoptive parents feel so threatened by a child's biological family entering in. And I think that his adjustment behavior, who he is as a person plays so much into him knowing where he comes from.

I do, I think that that's something that a lot of adoptees don't experience. So I'm happy for him in that way.

Yeah. So you know, I'm thinking about this journey. This is, this has been, you know, a couple decades long journey almost.

And time can be a gift and in the moment when we experience hard things and even over time we can feel overwhelmed or lack seeing God's goodness or his presence or wonder how he can bring any beauty out of the pain that we're possibly experiencing.

And I'm imagining you had those feelings multiple times over the years, and yet you're talking to us and telling us this kind of beautiful relationship you have with this kiddo who's 17 now. And I guess I'm just kind of curious.

What do you think you now believe wholeheartedly about God because you've seen firsthand what he can bring about from pain. Man.

Oh, I. I didn't know that I would experience wholeness and peace. Like I know now, like this side of heaven. There were some very dark seasons of my. Of my life.

And I think that what I believe now is that it is true, the saying is true, the Word is true, that God does redeem, and God can make beautiful things out of terrible situations. He does. He does it. And, you know, even beyond, like my relationship with my son, because even if.

Even if Levi were the only results, the goodness of what has gone on here in this situation, the fact that he has life, then he's going to change the world. And all the beautiful things about him, like, even if that were the only thing, that's amazing.

But I think, like, the work that God has done in me as a result of learning how to live in the tension of joy and grief, it helps me as a pastor, it helps me as a worship leader, because, you know, that's my job. I. I work at a church. These are weird times where we're filming a lot of services.

But I just think to be a worshiper that chooses to worship, whether I feel that peace or not is a discipline that I. Is irreplaceable. Because, you know, like in First Thessalonians, it says, you know, give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you.

And so God's will for my life is that I would give thanks in all circumstances. And so even. And it's. It can feel patronizing to say to someone, oh, you're in pain. Let's. Let's worship and let's. Let's be.

Let's make a great gratefulness list or something. But the reality is there is some truth to it. I think there's a reason why.

Yeah, the word says like this, you know, like Psalms, this is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it, whatever we're facing. I don't know. The discipline of that is a beautiful overflow of pain.

Yeah. I mean, I always talk to women, and I've mentioned this to you earlier.

But I always talk to women about kind of being in chapter seven and how it's like they cannot see the forest for the trees, like things are coming undone and they are losing their grasp on how anything good could come out of this.

And I'm just thinking about you and how, you know, you're 16 years old at one point, for three months, you're by yourself carrying, you know, what feels like just this, this. You have no idea what you're going to do, and are you going to be judged? And.

And then you hand him over and you go through the trauma and being triggered and feeling all alone and all of that.

And, and, and I tie that into the chapter seven idea because I think so many times we have to believe that God is writing a beautiful story and the story's not over. We're in the middle of the story. And you, you now are 20 down the road of this story, and you're seeing some beautiful chapters that God is writing.

And I guess what I want to ask you is when you think about women listening, and they're not there, they haven't been given the gift of time. They haven't seen the beautiful chapters being written yet.

And they're right smack dab in the middle of that chapter where they're like, I. I don't know how any good is going to come out of this kind of pain. What's your advice to them?

I mean, all I can say is that I'm still learning this. I think I don't have all the answers, but what I do know is that Jesus is with you in every emotion. And I think that for me, the ebb and flow, there.

There are years where it wasn't as hard. And then there were years. It was terrible.

And just trust, like, allow, I guess, giving yourself the space and the grace to sit in it, to sit in the season that you're in, because you will look back, you know, I guess, when you're out of, you know, your chapter 10 or whatever, and you'll look back on that chapter 7 and you'll say, I don't know how I got through that, but here I am. I'm still here. Jesus is with me, like, And I think that for me, a lot of my life does feel very redeemed. I thought I would never have children.

I thought I would never have more children. And here I am, like, with two little boys that I do get to parent and a husband who loves and values and follows Jesus, I.

The blessing in my life, I couldn't See it. I couldn't see it as a teenager. I couldn't see it when I went through a divorce in my 20s. Like, I couldn't see it.

And that's okay, I think, just being okay with darkness, even, you know, like, it's. To know that this isn't forever. This isn't forever, and to allow yourself to feel fully what you're experiencing. And I think so.

So much of my life I just spent wanting everyone to think I was okay and caring so much how people.

What people thought about me and how they viewed me and wanting to, like, censor the lens and, like, edit the lens of how people viewed me when it just ultimately doesn't matter.

Yeah. You know, there's a lot of postures I feel like we can grab onto and carry when we've experienced hard things.

You know, we can become negative or bitter or unforgiving or disappointed or apathetic or whatever. And, you know, we're in this series on what does it look like to.

To have a posture of gratitude and not just like a Pollyanna posture of gratitude, but an actual, like a posture of, like, seeing the good and recognizing the beauty and God's hope and redemption, even in hard things. And I'm just curious, on a really practical note, what are. What are some of the practices that you engage to hold a grateful posture?

Yeah. Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind is, like, on a very practical level with my kids, like, we.

We practice what we're thankful for each day. And it sounds very basic, but, you know, my children are four and one, so they're little. So it's just.

We sit at the dinner table and we eat dinner as a family, and we say, jones, what are you thankful for today, Shepherd? And so funny. We asked this the other night, and we said, shepherd, what are you thankful for? And he said, but pumpkins?

And we said, jones, what are you thankful for? I kid you not. He said, women. Oh, sweet Lord. Anyway, but can't you be thankful for pumpkins, too? I just think naming.

Naming it out loud, even with, like, that childlike faith of hearing what they're thankful for. And then I look at them and I look at my husband, and I look at our, you know, modest home. I look at our. Our life that we get to live in ministry.

And I. I am reminded, like, there, but by the grace of God go I. Because I don't deserve the life that I've been given. I. I am so, so grateful.

And even in spite of, like, in spite of and because of My story, I think because of Levi, I am the mom that I am. You know, because of Levi, I, I am the pastor that I am because I've been through really sad things.

And that's not to say that you want people to go through that, but man, it's made me softer, you know, So I think just the discipline of naming, naming those things, I think the discipline of as a worship leader, because literally worshiping is being thankful without ceasing and coming before your creator and bringing that whether you're joyful or not. It's a discipline and it is my job.

And I think that on those, on that note, no pun intended, it can feel like, oh, this is my job to sing and to bring people into worship and I have to do this. And, but in that it's like, how do you sustain that?

Like, how are you an authentic worship leader, worshiper in your life if, like, it feels like your job? And I, again, I would just say like a heart of gratitude spurs that, you know, spurs that piece of who I am and my role in life, you know.

Becca, Goddess, obviously writing a beautiful story in your life and it's so fun to watch the chapters unfold and I just wonder, and I definitely am putting you on the spot with this, this closing question, but at the end of your story here on Earth, what do you think you'll tell God you're grateful for? And, and will that long list of thanks include what you experienced out of these hard chapters?

I think just to bring the conversation all the way back around, I think.

That.

Like my own father, who has loved me and extended me every grace in every season in my life, I, I think that when my life comes to an end and I stand before God, I want to thank, be thankful and to thank him, God, for redeeming my life and, and, and whether or not I had my family and other children or whatever, like his work on the cross, redeeming my sin, that's, that's enough, right? I think everything else is a bonus on top of that.

And so, yes, I'm so thankful for the blessings, but I'm just so thankful for the way that I've been carried, you know, just carried from season to season and, and still am. And I, you know, and who knows what's ahead? Because, you know, I'm in my 30s and I've been through more than a lot of 30 year olds at this point.

And I used to think that the worst things in my life had already happened, you know, when I went through that placement and loss of my son. I thought to myself as a teenager, well, at least this is the worst thing I'll ever go through. And the reality is that that's just.

We are guaranteed nothing in this life. Like, everything I've been through could be bracing me for the next thing you know, like, that's the reality.

And so better to become a woman who trusts and follows and is grateful in, in and through every season because it will prepare me for the next one.

I love. I love that as we come to a close, you're reminding us with your own story that you have been carried from chapter to chapter to chapter.

And for those listening who are in the middle of a really hard chapter, what a wonderful promise to hold on to that you, too, friend, will be carried. Becca, thank you for hanging out and having such a candid conversation with me today. I. I just really value and.

And honor your honesty, love your story in the way God's unfolding it and using it to help other people. And I love how you put voice to it. So thanks for hanging out.

Thank you so much for having me. I hope that every woman that listens to this man or woman does know that you are deeply loved by God and that he sees your whole story.

And I just from beginning to end, in every space in between. So whatever season that you're currently in, live it strong, live it out, and know that there's another one coming.

Becca, how can people connect with you?

Oh, man. Well, I do have social media, although my account is private. Maybe I'll go public when we post this episode. But I have Instagram Becca Overby.

But I also have email Becca Overby.

Gmail.

Yeah, I. I haven't made a profession out of these conversations or anything, but I'm. But I'm willing to have them. And I. I'm just grateful that God can use my story in any way. In any way. So this has been an honor.

So thank you for having me.

Willow.

Yeah, it's been awesome. And for those of you guys who are listening, hold on to that promise this week that you too are being carried.

Keep colliding and we'll catch you next week.

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