In this episode of Batting 1,000, Dale Vermillion sits down with Todd Duncan, the CEO and Founder of High Trust Selling. Todd, a two-time New York Times bestselling author and renowned speaker, shares his insights on thriving in the mortgage industry by embracing faith over fear. With over 5 million professionals trained and a wealth of experience from speaking engagements worldwide, Todd offers invaluable strategies for overcoming current market challenges.

Dale and Todd discuss the importance of mindset, relationship-building, and actionable strategies to succeed in today’s high-rate environment. Tune in for a motivating and practical conversation that’s bound to inspire and equip mortgage professionals to elevate their game.

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In This Episode

Embracing faith over fear (starts at 3 mins 53 secs)

Todd discusses the significance of choosing faith over fear and how it can positively influence your mindset and business approach in challenging times.

Succeeding in high-rate markets (starts at 15 mins 46 secs)

Dale and Todd delve into effective strategies for expanding your network, leveraging existing relationships, and increasing your conversion rates without resorting to cold calls.

Building high-trust relationships (starts at 27 mins)

Dale and Todd discuss how to foster meaningful relationships with clients and real estate agents by focusing on their needs and providing genuine value.

Combining positivity with practice (starts at 37 mins 9 secs)

Dale and Todd discuss the importance of maintaining a positive mindset, continuous practice, and role-playing to enhance your skills and confidence in the mortgage business.

Resources

Schedule a call with Todd's team

Schedule a call with Dale’s team

Soundbites

"Thought without action is useless. Action without thought is dangerous." — Todd Duncan

"Faith tells us that it’s the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not yet seen." — Todd Duncan

"If you want to widen your net, you need to call your existing partners and ask for referrals. That’s how you expand your reach without cold calls." — Todd Duncan

"You can’t control the market, but you can control your actions and mindset within it." — Todd Duncan

About Todd Duncan

Todd Duncan has spent his life teaching and equipping professionals with the power of HIGH TRUST as the key catalyst in achieving their personal and professional dreams. As the leading Authority on Trust, he helps business professionals accelerate emotional connection with clients, increasing conversion and setting the client up for a lifetime of loyalty.

Todd is the author of 17 books including the New York Times Best-sellers, Time Traps: Proven Strategies for Swamped Sales People and his game-changing book High Trust Selling: Make More Money in Less Time with Less Stress. Todd has been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Sydney Morning Herald, The Los Angeles Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Seattle Times, Entrepreneur Magazine, SUCCESS Magazine, FOX and CNN amongst other media sites and publications.

Connect with Todd

Website → toddduncan.com

LinkedIn → linkedin.com/in/toddduncanofficial/

Facebook → facebook.com/ToddDuncanOfficial

YouTube → youtube.com/@ToddDuncanTV

About Dale Vermillion

Having trained over 1,000,000 lending professionals and worked with over 600 organizations, Dale has compiled the best practices of the nation’s top producers into a practical and proven system that has helped countless individuals build lasting relationships with their borrowers, strengthen and expand their referral partnerships, and achieve greater personal and professional success than they thought possible.

Dale is a 3x HousingWire Vanguard, a member of the 2022 Global Mortgage 100, and 2021 Mortgage Professional America Housing Industry Icon. He’s also the proud author Navigating the Mortgage Maze (Moody Publishing) and the Founder of Mortgage Professionals Providing Hope.

Connect with Dale

LinkedIn → linkedin.com/in/dalevermillion

Facebook → facebook.com/dalevermillionofffical

Twitter → twitter.com/dalevermillion

Website → dalevermillion.com

Email → listen@dalevermillion.com

About Batting 1,000

Batting 1,000 with Dale Vermillion is a production of Mortgage Champions, a VCI company. Produced and edited by Jake Vermillion. Music by Envato Elements. Copyright 2023 © Vermillion Consulting, Inc., All Rights Reserved.

Thought without action is useless.

Action without thought is dangerous.

Think about a simple strategy.

If you want to widen your net, which you have to do.

And if you, if you realize that the 10 realtors that you love.

Um, aren't able to give you the same amount of business, then you maybe

need for 20, you maybe need for 30.

People go, well, how do I do that?

I don't have time for that.

Well, you totally have time.

You call each of the 10 and you, and you say, listen, Dale, um, the market's hard.

Um, I need to expand my reach.

I'd rather not make any cold calls.

So who are five of your best friends that sell real estate that I can call

using your name who need a partnership like you and I have, you're going

to give me, here's five friends.

You're listening to batting 1000 with Dale Vermillion,

where heavy hitters from mortgage, real estate, and business share their

secrets for lasting success with your host award winning sales strategist

and industry icon, Dale Vermillion.

All right.

Welcome to batting a thousand where we talk to the heavy

hitters in the mortgage industry.

And today I got one of the heaviest hitters you can ever imagine.

A man who needs no introduction, but I'm going to give him one anyway to honor him

because he is a legend in our industry.

Todd Duncan is with us today.

Todd is a two times New York times bestselling author.

Uh, he's authored 17 books, including high trust selling, which is really

the core thing that, that he builds his training around he's trained over 5

million professionals worldwide has spoken to groups as large as 70, 000 people.

And he's been featured in the New York times, the wall street journal,

the Los Angeles times entrepreneur magazine, success magazine, Fox, CNN.

This man has done it all.

Um, and more importantly than all of that, uh, he is just an incredibly, uh, kind.

Generous and ethical guy.

Uh, he has led people in such incredible ways, changed more lives than anybody I

probably know in the mortgage industry.

Todd, it is such an honor to be with you today.

Thanks for joining us.

Um, it's an honor for me too, Dale.

And it's, uh, it's like you wake up in the morning.

And you realize that you're blessed and that you get an

opportunity to impact lives.

And, um, you know, I think there's a story, uh, for everybody that, that

watches this conversation that we're about to have on, you know, waking up

with purpose and waking up with intention and, uh, and making a difference.

And there's no higher calling, I think, than that, you know, and, and,

um, I was really, I was a little bit disappointed, however, this morning

because I was talking with somebody else and they had, they had a hat on.

That they said you gave them and, uh, it said others first.

And I'm wondering why don't I have that help yet?

Well, you're going to, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll,

we'll be sure to send it to you.

Guaranteed.

A

little levity to start things off.

But I thought, I thought it was interesting that without

having this time with you.

Somebody else brought you up in the same high regard that you

introduced me, which I'm grateful for.

And, uh, together brother, it's, uh, it's, it's really, really fun to make a

difference.

It really is.

It really is.

And you are certainly another's first kind of guy you, you

put people before yourself.

And that's one of the things that I've always loved about you and

admired about you over the years.

So here's where I want to start the conversation.

You and I had a great chance last week to hang out together

at the aim fuse six conference.

Um, you did an incredible speech that are like you always do.

You talked about something that I just absolutely loved, and that was

faith over fear, how, how, how that is one of the key things today.

So let's, let's open this up by talking about, we're in a crazy market right now.

As you know, um, you know, rates have hit all time highs in 23 years.

Uh, we're seeing deals fall out on the backside on people that they

haven't seen that happen before.

And a lot of that, I think.

Success today is dictated on how we mentally face this market

and have the right mindset.

So could you share with us some of your thoughts about that?

Cause I know you've got a lot of strategies and ideas around that.

Yeah.

So, um, I, I may be the best place to start.

And I want to say this with, um, a lot of, um, kind of nostalgia, you know, I

got in the loan business when I was 23 years old and my timing couldn't have

been worse because I entered a market that many mortgage professionals today

have never, and probably You know don't even correlate that that we've had bad

markets before this one feels deep and it cuts deep because so many loan originators

have only had a 10 year experience of kind of like How the business was easier than

it is right now in this moment, right?

But if you go all the way back to when I started, um We had a

lot of the same stuff going on.

We we had uh interest rates higher than they had Ever,

ever been prime was 20 percent

to

fund an FHA or VA loan was 17, 17 and a half percent

and maybe four or five points.

Yep.

Consumer confidence was in the tank.

Unemployment was at an all time high.

Yep.

We were in a full blown recession and The vibe on

the street is nobody is going to buy a house in today's market.

So that's how I started.

And I had a three month guarantee of 1, 500.

And that was it.

My grandmother gave me a book, uh, when I was in college called success through

a positive mental attitude and Napoleon Hill and W Clements stone wrote that book.

I devoured it.

I absolutely devoured it because I always, I always knew that there was some kind

of difference between the people that were attractive in the marketplace.

And by that, I mean, from the value proposition from the

light, you can feel it, right?

You can feel it when you're next to somebody who's got the

right kind of spirit going on.

And I figured that I can't control any.

Of what has caused this

that's right.

I

can't control the government.

I can't control the feds.

I can't control rates I can't control the bank.

I can't control anything The only thing I can control is

what I do in the market i'm in

correct

and so in this book was These amazing tidbits Of how to choose a

positive mindset and a positive mindset.

I'm not talking about, I'm so excited.

I'm talking about, I'm talking about what's going on in here.

That is the only offense you have right now in the face of being negative.

So what I did is I, I had a button made up that was about the size of a

softball, probably three inches or so.

And that button was green and on it was this phrase, rumor

has it we're in a recession.

I'm not participating.

I love it.

And I wore that in every borrower interview.

I wore that in every real estate agent call.

I wore it every day.

And what it did is it fostered this question.

Why are you so positive?

And then I got a chance to answer it.

I got a chance to say the good news about rates where they are right now is

they'll probably never be this high again.

That's right.

And the good news about you and me.

Is that I'm going to help you with your mortgage for the next 20 years.

So we can either wait a couple of years or we can decide if this works now for you.

Either way, I'm here to serve.

Either way, either way, I'm here to help.

So in that book, 300 page book, this is the phrase that has

stuck with me my whole life.

There's very little difference between those that succeed and those that fail.

But the little difference makes the big difference.

The little difference is attitude and the big difference is whether

it's positive or negative.

And that's it.

And if you don't choose positivity and balance it with hope, which leads to

faith, you're stuck in today's market.

And here's the deal about mindset.

The longer you're stuck, the worse your mindset gets.

So the key to everything is to get unstuck.

That's the key.

And you can't get unstuck unless you replace fear with faith.

And faith tells us scripturally that it's the assurance of things hoped for.

I hope the market gets better.

I hope that people start buying homes.

I hope that real estate agents will refer business to me.

I hope, I hope, I hope.

And the conviction of things not yet seen.

So what does conviction mean?

It might mean it's going to take another 90 days to get through this,

but you're either going to, you're either going to survive or you're not.

It's going to be that simple.

And I would rather arm people today with faith And strategy

instead of fear and stagnation.

I talked to somebody two weeks ago, right before we went to Vegas and

hooked up at aim two weeks ago.

And she said, you know, I decided four months ago that the market

wasn't going to get any better.

And if it did, I would still do what I'm about to do because I think it would

bless me even when the market got better.

She went from doing weekly lunch and learns for 30 real estate agents to

And she had blown off, blown out 10 cubes in her office and she had the

agents come to her instead of her trying to go out and you know, all of this.

And that worked until rates went up.

And so she asked me, what should I do?

And I said, you should widen your net.

She goes, I can't, I only have 30 seats in my office.

And I go, is there a hotel within a mile of you?

She goes, yes.

And I go invite a hundred.

And go rent a ballroom.

She goes, really?

And I go, yeah, invite a hundred and go rent a ballroom because the

30 that served you last year are not doing enough business to serve.

That's right.

That's right.

So she does this.

She starts to market it.

It's on social.

She, her goal was a hundred agents in the seats.

She put together a five agent panel.

Two agents she had a relationship with, three she didn't, and she

facilitated a two hour conversation about how to win in today's market.

She had 91 real estate agents show up.

Awesome.

And then the next two weeks, locked over 5 million in loans.

Awesome.

Now, let me ask you a question, Dale.

Do you think she's more excited?

Or less excited about going from 30 to a hundred in today's market.

Oh, I bet she's a whole lot more excited.

Yeah.

And what's really interesting.

And I'll just, uh, I'll say this.

And then if we want to get tactical, we can do it.

What's really interesting.

You got a text from her yesterday.

And, uh, you know, I've not done this yet.

So might as well read it to your audience.

Cause this is, this, this is really, it's like you and I could talk all

day long about mindset, but when you talk to somebody that does it, right.

So here's what she says, 30 seconds of stuff.

She goes, I had the most wonderful day today with a real estate

agent from I did four weeks ago.

She approached me afterwards and she said that was an amazing experience.

I followed up with her and asked her if she'd like to go on a hike in the

canyons and just chat about life.

And she said she brought her dog, she brought her dog and drove, drove to me.

And we spent five hours, five hours talking about how I can help her win.

Talk about a high trust interview.

You teach us to do it in 30 minutes.

I took five hours going deep.

She goes on to say that at the end of that time, we were friends.

And the day after that, she referred three buyers to me.

So what worked?

In the past does not work right now.

That's correct.

And you got to go on the offense and you got to change your

thinking and you got to move forward.

If you're stuck, you got to move.

There is just a whole lot of wisdom.

I love when you talked about fear and strategy versus.

I'm sorry, faith and strategy versus fear and stagnation.

What a, absolutely, that's a drop the mic moment right there, of something

that we can really clutch onto.

You know, I had a really good friend of mine years ago, who said to me one day, he

said, you know, if you're gonna pray for rain, You better have a hoe in your hand.

And I never forgot that quote because he's absolutely right.

You know, we need to have faith and hope, but we also need to be willing to

work when the opportunity avails itself.

And a lot of what I see today, I'm sure you see the same thing is, is.

We see people are hoping for things to get better, but they're not doing

anything different to change their surroundings to create some of that.

And that's what has to happen in today's marketplace is

you have to understand that.

Look, we've been here before.

This is nothing new in this market.

You started when rates were super high.

I started when rates were super high in 1983, just a year or two after you did.

Rates were 17 and a half that I was selling for the first seven years.

I was in the business when we got down to 15 and a half percent rates.

We thought it was, you know, the greatest thing that ever happened.

And when I ended my career at 12 and a half, I thought it was free money at

that point, you know, so we see these rates, we don't think anything about it.

And we know that no matter what rates do, people are going to buy.

People are going to borrow.

That's always going to happen.

You can be assured of that.

James Cameron had a great quote.

He said, hope is not a strategy.

Luck is not a factor and fear is not an option.

And I remind people a lot that we absolutely need to have

hope in everything that we do.

If we don't have faith that builds hope, we're in trouble.

But when it comes to our business, we can't just sit around and hope all

day that it's going to rain business.

We got to make it rain business.

And then we've got to work through that process that comes with that.

So let's get strategic here because look, you are the master of helping people

understand how to attack their business.

You said something earlier that I totally agree with.

You know, the speech that I did, you probably heard me talk about the four X.

Prospecting today, you've got to have four times the size network today.

You had in 2021 to get the same kind of results because of the drop in

the realtors business and all the things that are affecting the economy.

It's just not the mortgage side that's hurt.

So let's talk for a little bit about some of the strategies that

you are teaching and employing.

You know, you've got what, 37 coaches that work with loan

officers across the country.

By the way, if you're not working with the Todd Duncan group, you need

to work with the Todd Duncan group.

You need to get coached by Todd's team, but talk a little bit

about what you guys are sharing with people in this marketplace.

Cause you and I are both veterans of high rate marketplaces, just like you.

I never dropped a borrower's rate a day in my life in the 12 years that I managed,

you know, thousands of loan officers.

And I had people closing 35 loans a month, raising rates every day.

This is a market where you have to do that.

How are you doing that today?

Um, so the first thing, and this may, I don't want this to sound

anything other than complimenting to what you said at the start of that question.

And that is, um, being a guy that has had to choices just like all

of us between fear and faith.

Um, the interesting thing about faith is there is hope,

and

if you don't have faith, then hope is not a strategy, but if

you have faith, And you don't execute action, faith does not bear itself out.

So what we do is we take this word fear and we go It can either be false

experiences appearing real which is we put on to something A future that is negative

that is rarely going to happen, right?

Call reluctance is one of those great examples.

So the way to change call reluctance today is to move from

false experiences, appearing real.

If I call that realtor, she's probably not doing business.

If I call it, you know, call that person.

I'm not sure I have what it takes to, to get them to say yes,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Right.

So

then what we have to do is we have to understand that

the world's greatest performers in any discipline, including mortgage

practice more than they play.

So one of the ways to move from fear to some sense of face is.

Everything and rise.

Same word face.

Everything and rise is to be equipped.

I can rise above the noise.

I can get higher.

A hawk can see a rabbit, but the rabbit cannot see the hawk.

And

what you have to do is you have to rise above the circumstance.

How do you do that?

You make a choice number one, and you practice number two, and then you act

number three, and I'll give you Style and what that looks like in just a sec.

The third thing, though, is if I can face everything and rise and I can

understand the value of practice and being equipped to do the things that

I'm going to be faced to do and to know that if I'm not equipped, I lose.

And to know if I am equipped, the odds go up that I'll win and I'll

be able to help the customer win.

So the final acronym of the same word is feeling excited and ready.

Love it.

And how do I do that?

Well, I have to move.

And this is this, I got to say this really slowly.

Um, thought without action

is useless.

Action without thought is dangerous.

And so what I, what I'm telling people today is think

about this for just a second.

Think about a simple strategy.

If you want to wipe your net, which you have to do.

And if you, if you realize that, that the 10 realtors that you love, Um,

aren't able to give you the same amount of business, then you maybe need to

go to 20, you maybe need to go to 30.

And people go, well, how do I do that?

I don't have time for that.

Well, you totally have time.

You call each of the 10.

And you, and you say, listen, Dale, um, the market's hard.

Um, I need to expand my reach.

I'd rather not make any cold calls.

So who are five of your best friends that sell real estate?

Yep,

that I can call using your name who need a partnership like

you and I have Dale and she's gonna give me You're gonna give me he's

gonna give me here's five friends.

Yep

Then I called dan I go.

Hey dan, it's todd duncan with abc financial I was talking with dale

vermillion the other day and he said you're one of his best friends.

You're a real estate agent He said you're having some rocky moments with your lender

and that maybe you and I should sit down so that we could see If we could foster a

relationship like I have with him You have some time in the next two days to meet.

I'll meet you anywhere face to face to have a conversation about how I

can help you win in real estate today.

If I did that between now Dale and seven days from listening to

this, I would have 50 phone calls.

To 50 referred to realtors, which increases my conversion rate of setting

appointments like there's no tomorrow.

If I have a referral instead of a cold call, conversion to appointment

from call can be as high as 95%.

That's right.

Especially in a market like we're in today.

So then the next thing that the law officer fears is great idea.

What do I do with Dan who Dale referred me to when Dan says, let's meet?

Yeah.

Well, you meet and you look at Dan and say, here's where I'd like to start.

What are your three top challenges right now?

And how can I help you solve those challenges?

And they're not going to be uniquely different.

You know, this deal, I know this.

The needs of people have right now.

So then, um, I need more sellers.

I need more buyers who are, are actively wanting to buy and sell.

I go, great.

What are you doing right now to get them?

And they're probably going to say, you know, I'm knocking on doors, I'm farming,

I'm making phone calls, I'm doing social posts, this, that, and everything.

And, and I go, so when was your last closing deal or Dan?

And Dan says, um, three weeks ago.

And I go, have you talked to that buyer?

Since closing and asked him this and let's just call it Dan and Janet.

Hey, Dan and Janet.

So excited.

You're in your new home right now.

I'm building my business by referral only.

Now that you're settled in your house, I'd like to plug into whomever you

know that you think is going to buy or sell, maybe invest in real estate

in the next 12 months that we could contact using your guy's experience,

not your name, your guy's experience.

So now it's all of a sudden, Dan, the realtor goes, no, And I go, why not?

Well, um, I don't know.

So we look at this, we look at this idea that like, if you give me a buyer and I am

your lending partner, cause I do this for Dale, my other partner, every single buyer

is told at the application appointment.

And when that is done and ready to go and they are sold and they trust

me and my team, they are told that's the only way we build our business.

Now, imagine this, imagine every loan officer right now,

24 hours after an application.

7 days into a contract, 14 days into processing, 7 days prior to clear

to close, and 7 days after closing, and then 90 days after closing.

And then six months after closing had eight referral opportunities per borrower.

You had 10 loans in process.

You have eight opportunities for referrals each.

That's 80 referrals.

Yep

Can I just say to everybody listening there's enough people buying

real estate today For you to make more money than you're making right

now to have more peace of mind than you have right now That's right more

security than you have right now.

They're out there You just got to get unstuck and you got to you talk

about getting tactical I just gave you like three tactical things do this.

That was awesome You

But to do them and to be confident, feeling excited and ready,

you need to just do what you and I did for about an hour, sit down and

have this kind of appointment setting role play with another LO and then

he or she gets to do it with you.

But here's the deal.

Stop talking, start asking fewer questions that are penetrating

questions, and then listen for as long as you can so that you can figure

out how to solve people's needs.

You talk too much right now because it's chaotic and you're scared.

You're not going to get

business.

That's exactly right.

So Todd, everything you just said there was so incredibly powerful.

That was pure gold.

Loved it.

You and I are so like minded in the way we approach the business and look, the

number one mistake, and we both seen it because we both trained millions

of loan officers across the country.

The number one problem is.

We talk our way right in and right out of deals every single day.

The key to success in today's marketplace is simple.

It's, it's put that realtor before yourself.

You're not there to get anything.

You're there to give them something.

It's that give to get mentality that I've taught my whole career.

You know, I, I've always said, if you're going to win the business with your

partners, the only way you're going to win it is by improving their business and

improving their life, not by trying to sell them your products and your services

that everybody else is also trying to sell the same thing and they're tired of

hearing about, and you made it so simple.

In that example of how today a loan officer can expand their realtor

and their partner base exponentially by not trying to cold call because

they do have call reluctance today and they are pushing too hard, but

instead by leveraging the relationships you already have to turn them into

more relationships down the road.

And you're right.

Your conversion rates exponentially blow up when you do that, because now

that Realtor is going to call that person who referred you and say, so

tell me about Todd Duncan, they're gonna say, Oh my gosh, he's amazing.

He's one of our, one of our best lenders.

He he's, he's our go to and it's an automatic done deal.

You don't have to sell yourself because your partner selling for you.

It's the right way to approach it.

You know, when you were talking, uh, a quote from Morris chain came into

mind that, that I've always loved.

He said.

Execution without strategy is useless.

Strategy without execution is pointless.

Great, great quote that I've used many, many times, because it's

exactly what you said a moment ago.

You've got to be able to connect the dots so that you're combining both

your strategy and your execution.

And the thing that you said in there that I thought was so powerful that

nobody does, and I talk about this all the time too, is practicing and role

playing before you get a live interview.

Partner or prospect on that phone and in that conversation, warm yourself up.

You know, I've used this analogy many times and it's

perfect for batting a thousand.

We've all been to professional baseball games.

What you'll never see the professional baseball game is a baseball player.

Watch straight from the dugout to the batter's box.

It never happens.

They go to the on deck circle first.

Now these guys know how to hit a baseball.

They've hit millions of them.

So why do they go there before every time at the plate?

Because they're getting themselves ready, mentally prepared and physically

prepared for a 99 mile an hour fastball.

And that's what we get a lot of times with customers and with partners

is 99 mile an hour fastballs.

You're not going to be able to handle that unless you've.

Warmed yourself up and practice your approach with somebody else.

So that was just absolute pure gold in today's marketplace,

because you're absolutely right.

We've got to expand our databases.

We've got to work with more partners.

And the best way to do that is through relationships you already have.

That's key.

I, yeah, I think in that, you know, just to, to put an

exclamation mark on, on practice.

Everybody, myself included, Dale, you included, everybody, When they do

something the first time they don't do it well, whatever it is, whether it's talking

to a borrower the first time, or talking to a real estate agent, learning how to

snowboard, I'm a private pilot learning how to land, you know, none of this is

easy when we do it for the first time.

Right.

And somewhere between Earl Nightingale saying, if you practice

your trade for an hour a day in three years, you'll be a world expert.

And the 10, 000 hour rule, which I still can't find the, the app,

absolute epicenter for where that rule came from, but I can see it.

If you watch, if you watch the show quarterback and you watch the three

quarterbacks that are featured during the 2022 series, um, uh, season,

one of them is Kirk cousins, the quarterback from Minnesota Vikings.

There's a moment in episode three where he's working with his quarterback

coach and he says to his quarterback coach, I've got to, I've got to record

Every third down play call in my phone so that all week long I can listen

to the play calls for the third down because that's where they decided they

needed to improve conversion, right?

Same thing that we're kind of going through.

And there's this clip with him practicing the plays.

Um, the phone says what the play is.

He repeats the play.

The phone says the play, he repeats the play.

It's all in this audible, like, so, so he says at the end of this, and this

is the point he goes, when it gets to Sunday, I don't want to have to think.

I just want to execute.

And a loan officer today that says, I do not have faith in

making sales calls on realtors.

If you spent tomorrow for eight hours role playing, setting appointments,

Monday, you'd be ready to go.

That's right.

And even if you, even if you feel like it didn't go quite

according to plan, the real estate agent is not going to say, gosh, that

Todd Linder guy, he missed that one sentence in that script and he should

have, they're never going to say that.

And so we've got to, we've got to understand that.

So listen, competence is first.

If you're not competent with something, you will not have confidence mindset.

If you're competent and you practice, then you have confidence.

What happens when you have confidence?

Confidence leads to leads to just think about this.

Oh my gosh, if I'm not good, I'm not going to take action.

I'm not going to take action because I'm not good.

So if I get good, then I'll be confident, which leads to consistency.

But if I'm not competent, then And I'm not confident.

I surely am not going to be consistent.

That's right.

So here's the interesting thing.

The fourth C is compounding and compounding works both ways.

You can not be competent, stay in business, and the negative compound

effect is going to take you away from whatever success opportunity you have.

That's right.

But if I get confident and then I get confident and then I do the right

thing every day, every single day.

Yeah.

Then the compound effect goes the other way.

So I'm talking to a guy today.

I asked him, we taught mindset on Tuesday.

I asked everybody yesterday, what's one thing you've done that has

changed your mindset in 48 hours?

This guy said, this is as simple as it is.

This guy said, I made a decision that all technology would be off between

eight 30 and 10 and that I would simply call the people that I printed.

The call list out the night before before 10 o'clock and he said I got three

loans Since tuesday that I would not have gotten had I not decided between 8

30 and 10 I'm going to turn everything that interrupts me off and i'm going

to focus on making my impact by 10 The whole rest of the day can get shot.

But at least I know i've done the right thing So what would

happen this is for your audience?

What would happen if?

Every day for one hour, you call realtor partners, asked how you can serve them,

ask what they needed to have from you.

Um, agree to meet, agree to help the borrowers that they refer to

you, find more borrowers that you can bring back to them hour a day.

Then what would happen if you talk to, I don't know, two to four borrowers

a day because you're talking to the right real estate agents, right?

And so then it's like, okay, that's 20 a week.

That's 80 conversations a month.

If I could get two referrals a week from.

10 agents or one referral week from 20 agents and do that every single day.

Think about how my business would be different in 30

days.

And then if I can just make sure that because, because I have

made a decision that relationships are more important than transactions.

My desire to follow up is not because it's some skill that somebody

taught from stage at a seminar.

My desire to follow up with you is because I care about you.

That's right.

And, and I want a relationship with you.

I'm not following up because some CRM told me to call you today.

I'm following up because I love you and I care about you.

And I want to help you win.

You don't have any call reluctance now.

And that deal is to your whole, your whole OS, your whole thing is the generous

person will prosper if you help others.

You will, you will get your fair share.

That's exactly right.

That's a hundred percent right.

If you don't help others, you're going to have call reluctance and you're not

going to be valuable in the market.

I love that.

So this morning I was having a chat with a, uh, loan officer that

I was coaching who did four and a half million dollars last month.

He's on pace for 5 million this month.

And I asked him the one question, why do you think you're doing those

kinds of numbers in this market?

So easily.

And his answer was simply this.

I get up and call 30 realtors every morning, religiously.

I've done it for 10 years.

I'll do it for the next 10 years.

I'll do it until I retire.

It is the difference maker.

What you just said is so simplistic and it's so true.

If we will just commit our mornings, I've said this in a lot of the

keynotes that I've done over the years.

You know, when I was a manager, I had a rule and the rule was, if I

caught you In your email before 11 o'clock, I fired you on the spot.

And people always say to me, why would you do that?

And here's my answer.

Cause there ain't nothing good in there.

That's why, because I want you selling before you get into the mess that

is in your email box of problems and processor emails and cancel deals and

everything that derails us during the day.

So what you said is exactly what every origin needs to do today to succeed.

And I want to key in on what you talked about a moment ago is.

Because you and I had a backstage conversation about this last weekend

when we were together, that what I think is the number one problem outside of

the mindset and just the lack of really putting a lot of effort forward today.

I think the other real big problem is too many originators are replacing

technology for relationship and thinking that they're going to have

loyalty with customers when all they're doing is sending them a link, right?

Then having a conversation that goes straight to pricing and product and

program and never really showing that love trust relationship that you and I

value so much as part of our business.

Um, you know, I've always said it's interesting to me that the word

conversion and the word conversation, conversion is embedded in conversation.

The only difference is the A and the T that are in the middle of conversation.

And the A and the T as far as I'm concerned, stands for allow time, allow

time to build conversation that leads to conversion because relationship

is the key to everything we do.

We know in this marketplace, no matter what rates do, people

will buy, people will borrow.

There's plenty of business out there if you're willing to do

what you need to do to get there.

But the key is, Today relationship.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

Because this is something through your high trust selling that I know

is core to everything you believe in.

You teach is the power of, of really having your customers love and trust you.

Yeah.

Um, three things I'll say real quick.

First, I don't want to, I don't want to answer the question

until I talk about email.

The bottom line is, um, eight out of every 10 emails will mess with your mind,

take you negative and they're really.

an email that you shouldn't be reading anyway.

And so at some point or, or another, you need to, you need to ask the

question, like, um, do I have my physician's personal email?

And the prop part of the answer is you don't.

And, and, and even though it may be his or her app, whatever, There's a

very good strong chance that if I am a physician, I am not checking my own email.

And if I am, it's, it's already been processed.

And what I'm checking are the things that I have to check.

That's right.

Imagine this.

Imagine the fact that you spend one hour on email and that one hour could make

you 5, 000 if you didn't spend it on email and you had skill enough where you

didn't hide behind technology and call that value because technology itself.

We'll never replace the human connection.

So you got to understand that if you're hiding behind technology and

you're hiding behind social media, dollarize how that's working for you.

And then just understand, like if I, if I gave somebody 200 an hour, very

competent person just to deal with my email and I got all that time back

to build a relationship, then what would my business look like right now?

And then just take that and apply it to the whole day.

What are the things you do all day long that don't produce revenue?

And

the reason why that needs to be asked and answered is because

you're transactionally focused.

If you're

relationally focused, you don't worry about the transactions.

focus on building value in the relationship.

So where's the best place to build that value and then to embed

that thought in the conversation.

So I can say to one of these real estate agents, Dan, that Dale referred me to,

I can say, Hey Dan, I'm different than every loan officer you've ever dealt with.

I already have his attention, right?

How are you different?

He's asking in his mind.

That's right.

Instead of

looking for loans, I actually help my real estate agents

find more buyers and sellers.

I want to help them be successful.

And I know if I do that really well, the loans will happen.

So before we get into any discussion of how we might do business together,

help me understand why you chose real estate and what's important about being

a professional real estate agent to you.

And I want to have that conversation because if Dan tells me, you

know, I wake up every day.

And the reason I chose this is I love watching people get a key to the home.

And I go, great.

What's that do for you?

Because it brings me joy and happiness.

That's great.

Have you ever worked with a lender that their entire approach is to help

you experience more joy and happiness?

And Dan's going to go, what?

No, seriously.

That's, that's all we want to do.

We want to help you watch more people get keys to homes so you

can have more joy and happiness.

Do you want to discuss how we can get that done?

And Dan's going to say, yes.

Okay.

So what if I take a borrower?

What if I do the same thing with a borrower?

What have I, what have I say to a borrower?

You know, before we get started, every lender you could call today

is probably going to quote you a rate in this conversation.

I'm not going to do that.

We're different than every lender out there.

We play the long game.

You're going to own real estate as a first time home buyer for probably 30 years.

We want to start today.

To create the best mortgage solution for you, architect that solution,

help you manage that mortgage so that every year the mortgage is working

for you instead of you working for it.

So before we talk about interest rates, I want to ask you one question.

What would it mean to you to own your first home?

I don't ask 10 questions.

I don't ask 20 questions right now.

I don't go through prequal right now.

I want you and I to connect, always be connecting.

And having that conversation.

And if a borrower says, you know what, um, we'd be the first family in the

history of our family to own real estate.

That would mean the world to us.

I'm just going to look him in the eye.

And I'm going to say, you know what, I'm going to help make that happen.

Are you ready to get started?

I'm going to close before I qualify.

I'm going to get you engaged before I have some random pricing conversation with

you, which somebody can beat me anyway.

And I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, in a very positive, high trust way.

throw the industry under the bus.

I don't, I'm not intentional on making anybody bad and wrong.

I'm just going to simply say most lenders would quote you a rate right now,

which is true

reason.

I'm not going to do that.

The reason I'm not going to do that is because I have no idea what you

want to achieve in real estate.

I have no idea what's important to you about your finances.

I have no idea how much money you make.

But I have an idea that if you want to be the first family in the history

of your family to own real estate, we're going to make that happen.

Are you ready to get started?

And what I tell people, Dale is, and I think you alluded to this in your speech,

you have to decide,

you have to decide if you're wise enough, confident enough and

skilled enough to be a mortgage advisor instead of a law officer.

That's right.

You have to make that decision.

And you have to understand that you choose your value proposition.

You can choose the McDonald's value prop, lots of customers, inexpensive

burgers, not very good, or you can choose DB Bistro in New York city.

That's right.

Okay.

Not a lot of customers, very expensive burger, but always

weeks to get a reservation, a 99 cent burger, a 32 burger.

Or you have to, you can't be both.

You can't be both.

You have to choose your path.

And that's the discipline of market leaders is I choose my path.

I'm going to advise you on the largest debt you will ever have, and I'm going

to show you month after month, year after year, the strategic value of managing

that debt and making your real estate work for you instead of you working for debt.

That's called, in neuroscience, a pattern interrupt.

As borrower hears that, they're going to go, wow, I had no idea.

That's right.

And so that's what we have to do.

You guys, the minute you get into the price business, you are simultaneously

in the concession business.

That's exactly

right, man.

I'll tell you what, that I loved everything you just said there.

And it's so dovetails with what we've taught for 30 years too, is I love

close, close before you qualify.

I hope the audience understands the power of what Todd just said,

because this is the number one problem in the industry today.

We start the conversation with.

So what's your FICO score?

It's a crazy story.

At the first, in the first quarter of this year, I listened to over 300

recorded phone calls of loan officers.

And I logged in those what the number one most common question a loan

officer asks is the first question.

You know what it was?

What's your credit score?

Think about that for just a minute.

We're sending a message to our borrowers that if you're good

enough, going to spend time with you.

If you're not, I'm not going to spend time with you.

That is not the message we want to send.

It's so interesting in all the seminars that I've done over the years, Todd,

I've, I've done this many times where I'll say to the, to the group of loan

officers, let me ask y'all a question.

How many of you would consider yourselves dishonest and none

of them raise their hand?

I go, of course you're not.

Now, let me ask you a question.

How many of you quote a rate in the first five minutes have done that?

With a borrower, all of them raise their hand and go, hate to tell you.

You're all dishonest.

Then you're not meaning to be, it's not your intention.

You're nice, honest people, but you're telling them something that's not true.

You don't know what that rate is.

You have no idea to your point, what their qualifications, what their

situation, what their goals are, what, what, what they're trying to

accomplish, you don't know any of that.

So quoting upfront is going to kill you every time.

And in a rising rate market.

It's death immediately.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword when you do that.

So I love the way it is.

And I love the way you just positioned that, that it's all

about building conversation with that customer to get them to talk.

And then what if I could, and you took them right into owning a home.

Beautiful way to say it.

Just to make sure you and I remain at the top

of professional integrity.

If anybody's having problems with what I just said, close before you qualify.

You have the wrong strategy anyway.

I want to say that lovingly.

And, and you might say, well, what if they don't qualify?

Well, what if they don't and they still want to buy a home?

Okay.

Whenever they're ready to buy a home, you want to use the lender

that helped them get qualified.

So let me tell you what I learned as a 23 year old.

I learned never to tell a realtor.

The borrower doesn't qualify.

I learned never to tell a borrower.

You don't qualify.

I learned always to say, The Johnsons will be able to be

qualified in the next six months.

Bingo.

They do these three things.

That's right.

We

have a funnel in high trust selling our Academy spends three hours

on this funnel and our next Academy is in November in Las Vegas, this funnel says.

I am going to follow up with you until you buy.

You may not qualify today, but in one year you will qualify.

If you're a platinum at the bottom of the funnel, you qualify and

you're going to buy within 90 days.

You're, you're gold.

You're gonna qualify within 91 80 days.

If you're silver, you're gonna qualify within hundred 81 days and two 70.

And if you're green, you're gonna qualify from 271 days to 600, 700 days.

I'm gonna go that far out.

You know why?

'cause as soon as you get qualified, you're gonna tell like all of

your friends who don't qualify.

Now, I'm not saying go after un qualifiable business.

You can't

do that because that's a headache too, but if I care about

you and I care about the realtor that referred you to me, I'm never going

to tell you a soul crushing truth.

You don't qualify.

I'm never going to tell you that.

I'm going to look you in the eyes and say, there's three things we need to

help you do in the next six months.

And as soon as we do those three things, You're going to be able to qualify.

Now watch this.

Most realtors will have forgotten about that bar.

That's right.

And then you get to call them in six months and say, you

probably don't remember the Johnsons that you referred to me in March, they

weren't able to get approved for a loan then now they are trying to need

to start showing them real estate.

That's right.

So qualify, love it.

Qualify after you connect and convert and close, do that because.

If I do that, my, um, every day I do that, I'm building my future value

ads and people will never forget that they'll just never forget it.

So that's a life changing process.

It's as, as I've trained my whole career, it's never, no,

it's not now that that's the

message.

And you know, the goal is we want every customer, every

customer to be our customer someday.

That may not be today.

It may be next month, it may be next year, but someday we're going to work together.

And that's the way I used to position it.

And this was the interesting thing, all the years that I managed and every

team I managed was number one in any capacity I had, because I focused on

training them the right way to do things.

And here was the key.

25 percent on average of all the business we did was out of our turndown files.

That's because we built relationship with those people, the same as we

did with the ones who qualified.

We didn't say, Oh, you don't qualify.

I don't have time for you.

Oh, you know what?

We're going to help you qualify because we do have time for you.

And man, did that pay big dividends for my team and it will for people today.

Yeah.

The business that your future business is not what you do in the future.

Your future business is what you do in the present.

That's right.

And

that's the compound effect.

So if all of a sudden, so when I.

12 years after becoming a loan officer, we had helped almost 6,

000 borrowers finance real estate.

My database of people that weren't qualifiable yet at 12 years, which is

when I sold my business, we had over 3, 000 people in that funnel I just

described that were getting qualified.

And part of the value of your mortgage practice Is not what you do to help

the single individual buy a home.

It's what you do to help everybody that will buy a home, buy a

home, whenever they're ready.

And if you don't, we just, uh, completed a survey in June, Dale.

We had just shy of 20, 000 loan officers that answered 25 questions.

Do you know that 88 percent of loan officers say that they're horrible

before the app is real and they're horrible after the loan closes?

And that only 4 percent of loan officers out of almost 20, 000,

which makes this in the industry accurate to a 96th percentile with a

plus or minus of less than one, Wow.

Listen, 4 percent of the industry follows up after closing and nurtures that

relationship into a lifetime relationship.

4%.

Unbelievable.

96 percent are transactionally focused in one and done.

That, you know what that does?

That makes you work like 20 years longer.

How could you, how could you at the age of 34, Retireable.

I didn't retire as I started this company, but how could you be because

you spent 12 years of focus with the right relationships with the right real,

my number one real estate agent gave me 70 million in loans in four years

with an average loan amount of 86, 000.

You want to talk about, you want to talk about value and you want to talk about,

you know, just loyalty and it took 18 months to get her to get me my first

loan because she already had a lender.

But here's what I want you to know.

If you follow what Dale and I are talking about and you really get

deep in this, you could do in the next 10 years what would otherwise

require 20 to 30 years of your labor.

If you get smart.

You practice, you're game ready and you're consistent.

If not, you will, as the Bible says, labor under the sun.

That's right.

And that's just sad to me.

It's sad to me to watch people that are burned out at the age of 54 or 58 or 60,

you know, because they've just gotten the crap kicked out of them for three decades.

Yep.

There's a better way.

And hopefully, hopefully if you go to toddjungle.

com, you can see the free tools that we have to help you do a better way.

One of which is business planning for 2020.

Um, You can have anything you want.

You can have anything you want in this business.

If you have faith, you're game ready and you're consistent, period.

Faith, ready, consistent.

I know for you and I, Todd, our faith in Christ has been the

game changer for us, um, in, in having confidence in the things that we do.

Um, you said it so well today that having faith, having trust, these

are key elements of success for anybody out there listening today.

And I know that, you know, for me and you, that's been a center part

of our lives that has helped guide us through everything that we've done.

And you know what, when, when you're working with a purpose where you know

that you're, you're okay at the end of the day, you're loved and forgiven,

no matter what happens, it changes your whole perspective on things.

It really does.

And, uh, and that's something that we share that I'm very appreciative.

And the more I listen to you.

Man, the more I love you because just incredible, incredible wisdom and

insight into how to be successful.

You know, when you were just talking about that whole referral concept and

that seven $70 million, it reminded me of back in the day when I was, uh,

sales manager, I had an accountant that I built an incredible relationship

with, did a great loan for him, and asked him the question at the end.

You know, you're a CPA, you own your own business.

Is there any chance I could work with your clients to do that?

And I'll never forget his answer.

He said, you know what?

I would love that.

And I said, how many clients do you have?

He said, 1100.

And I said, that'll work.

And in within 10 days, I had 137 applications from that one CPA.

All relationship based.

And it was just because I asked for the business again, I think today's

technology, sometimes what originators do is they think, well, the technology

is going to follow up with them.

No, you need to pick up the phone and call your customers for the rest of

their lives and the rest of your career.

And you will make a big difference.

Well, Todd, I could sit and chat with you forever, but I want to be respectful

of your time and the audience's time.

So I would love to hear more about, uh, you said you guys have, uh,

some 2024 business plans coming up.

Uh, you've got, uh, some training coming up.

Talk about where people can reach you.

Again, I want to say if you are not working with the Todd Duncan group, I

really want you to consider it today.

Todd's group has changed more lives in this industry.

It's incredible stuff.

So talk a little bit about your business and how people get ahold of you and

what you guys got going on coming up.

Yeah.

I think if you ask me what I do for a living, I help loan officers fall in love

with their life and become prosperous.

So if that's appealing to you and you can hang out with me on social at

Todd Duncan official on Instagram or LinkedIn, uh, you can go to toddduncan.

com and you can download the free business planning tools.

You can actually fill it out online and it will tell you what you need to do

every day to make your dreams come true.

The most important event that I've ever done.

I've done it for over 100, 000 loan officers since 1992.

It's called the Hytro Sales Academy.

It's you and me and 200 loan officers that want to be their

best for four days, 10 hours a day.

And we just lay it out.

I got a, I got a 400 page workbook.

Wow.

That I'm

going through right now to make sure that I update everything

in this playbook that is responsible to impact you in today's market.

Um, the investment is less than one half of a loan commission and

will change your life forever.

Um, as part of that, you get to hang out with me for 90 days after the event is

done and we keep you on the right track and people go, well, that's too expensive.

Can I just tell you right now that you're losing five to 10, 000 a

month by not knowing what to do.

That's right.

And so

you can continue to do that every single month, or you can make a

decision that I'm going to be there.

I'm going to go to Las Vegas.

We're not on the strip.

We're out of town where we can focus on building and doing stuff.

Great.

But just come and look at the high trust sales academy online

and look at the testimonials.

And if it's right for you, it's right for you.

We have 40 seats left.

It always sells out.

And, um, but beyond that, here's the drill.

You got this.

And God's got you and you should wake up every single day knowing that he's got it

all under control and you have to trust that you have to trust the universe,

but I'd rather trust God and create the

universe.

That's right.

You know, and he's got our, he's got our

best life already figured out.

I tell my sons all the time, Hey, he already knows what

you're going to do next week.

He already knows where you're going to be when you're 40.

You're 27.

Don't worry about that.

Let's be who you need to be today and trust the future, but

don't squander the gift of time.

Don't end up with regrets because you didn't do the right thing soon enough.

You didn't master the trade soon enough.

You were one of many instead of the only one.

You, you, you were on demand instead of in demand.

Okay.

Don't squander your time.

Add value.

Do it fast.

Do it real, do it with relationship, connect at the heart, don't FICO score

the head, and you're going to be fine.

And then your, your family and your life are healthy too.

So, and that's really what it's all about.

It's about being successful in all realms of life.

And I love what you talked about a moment ago, because I've closed just

about every session I've ever done with, Hey, we didn't create the universe.

We don't need to run it.

Let, let God do his job and you go do yours.

That that's really what it comes down to.

So Todd, Todd.

This has been just, just golden.

I want to tell you, I want to thank you again, just, um, publicly on behalf

of the entire mortgage industry for the decades that you have invested

into people, into this industry to make it a better place to work.

Uh, you are responsible for so many people's success and

keep doing what you're doing.

It's, it's, it's, it's.

Great to see how you are just continuing to make such a

massive impact in our industry.

We're really grateful for you.

I'm very grateful for the relationship and the friendship and the wisdom that

you shared today was unbelievable.

So thank you for your time.

Thank you for being here.

God bless you and your family.

Uh, appreciate you so much.

There is a mortgage champion in everybody, Dale, and you know that,

and uh, thank you for the time and for the chance to impact everybody.

When you wake up or the next time you look in the mirror.

Let the champion inside of you come out.

Thanks Dale.

Amen.

God bless you, my friend.

Great to see you.

Thanks for being here.

Batting a thousand is a production of mortgage champions.

A company that's been transforming the people who transform companies

since 1995 have a suggested topic or guest contact my team on Twitter.

That's at Dale Vermillion or tweet us using the hashtag batting 1000.

That's hashtag batting 1000.