“Other people are there, and they're utilizing the parks and hiking as their form of recovery, whether it's from substance abuse, whether it's from a medical issue, whether it's mental health... It's become a part of who they are.”

Our host, Marci Mowery, sits down with Rob Neitz, Park Manager at Jacobsburg Environmental Education Center in Northampton County, Pennsylvania. It’s the only state park within the two-county Lehigh Valley region and a quiet sanctuary amid one of the East Coast's fastest-growing corridors.

Unlike a typical state park, Jacobsburg's mission centers on environmental education, which means partnering with school groups, civic organizations, and teachers, while remaining open to the public for hiking, mountain biking, and horseback riding.

At 1,168 acres, it may be modest in size, but its location near the Kittatinny Ridge makes it an important stopover for migratory birds and a green refuge for hundreds of thousands of nearby residents.

The center's cultural history is equally rich. The Henry family, who manufactured the famed Pennsylvania Long Rifle from the Revolutionary War through the Civil War era, shaped the land that would become Jacobsburg.

Remarkably, a Henry family member, James Henry, also drafted some of Pennsylvania's earliest riparian buffer legislation, proposing a bill to revegetate the state's waterways.

Rob says that visitor stories are what most drive him. A cancer survivor finding peace by the creek. A stroke patient rebuilding strength on the trails, two to three miles each day.

"Those stories," says Rob, "are really at the heart of what we do."

Beyond its own boundaries, Jacobsburg anchors the Lehigh Valley Greenways Conservation Landscape, established in 2004, a multi-partner initiative connecting Allentown, Bethlehem, and Easton through trails and preserved green space.

It’s proof that conservation and economic vitality are not opposing forces, but seeds of the same flourishing community!

Key Topics:

1. What Makes an Education Center Different from a State Park (03:04)
2. Visitor Stories & the Heart of the Mission (04:42)
3. The Henry Family & Cultural History (08:24)
4. Volunteering & Community Programming (13:14)
5. Accessibility & the Visitor Center (17:14)
6. The Lehigh Valley Greenways Conservation Landscape (24:35)
7. Conservation as Economic Development (28:44)
8. Loaner Equipment & Getting Started (34:29)

Resources:

1. Jacobsburg Environmental Education Center
2. Lehigh Valley Greenways Conservation Landscape
3. James Henry
4. DCNR Calendar of Events

🎧 Listen to the Think Outside Podcast on Spotify, Apple, or your favorite app while on the go! New episodes drop bi-weekly on Mondays, and you may occasionally find a bonus episode, as well!

The Pennsylvania Parks and Forests Foundation inspires stewardship of YOUR state parks and forests through volunteerism, education, recreation, and philanthropy.

Learn more, find events, download outdoor resources, and get involved!

👉 Sign up for our weekly e-newsletter

🎥 Watch outdoor tips and stories on our YouTube channel

📸 Follow the podcast on Instagram

🎶 Podcast music provided by Evan Mongeau

📱 Follow PPFF on:

1. Facebook
2. Instagram
3. LinkedIn
4. YouTube
5. MeetUp

One of the first conversations I had as a manager when I first came on was a woman that had called she was going through a cancer treatment, and she would come to the park and sit down in Henry's woods and just stare at the water and the slate, you know, wall on the other side, and that was so vital for her. And you know, I've talked to other folks that were here more recently, that were out on the trail hiking, because last year he had a stroke and he needed to be more physically active, and this was his place. So now he's here every day. And those stories, and when you interact with the visitors, you get those to me, that's what it's all about. You

announcer, imagine a place where stress fades, fresh air fills your lungs and adventure awaits around every corner. Welcome to think outside. The podcast that inspires you to explore, connect and embrace the outdoors. Hi, welcome to think outside with the Pennsylvania parks and Forest Foundation, I'm your host. Marci Mowry, today, I'm delighted to be joined by Rob knights from jacobsburg Environmental Education Center, nestled in Northampton County, jacobsburg is more than a beautiful landscape of forests and streams, it's a place where conservation history hands on, learning and community connection come together as an Environmental Education Center, jacobsburg plays a vital role in helping people of all ages build meaningful relationships with the natural world. Rob, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Rob. For listeners who may not know jacobsburg Environmental Education Center, can you give us a snapshot of what makes this place unique within the Pennsylvania's public land system?

Sure, I think geographically, we're a little bit unique in that, you know, we're centered here in the Lehigh Valley, which is an hour from Philadelphia, an hour and a half from New York, Manhattan, New York, you know, only a couple hours from from from Boston, so to speak. So we are a major hub in the Atlantic seaboard, and we're located to major metropolitan areas. So that means there's a lot of developmental pressure. There's a big influx of humans and development here in Lehigh Valley. And I should mention that, you know, jacobsburg exists within the Lehigh Valley, which is considered a two county region of both Lehigh and Northampton County. As such, we are the only state park within those two counties. We're also two miles from the Kittatinny Ridge as the bird flies. So being a state park, we play a pretty big role in bird migration, providing a nice big green spot for birds to stop and rest and refuel before they continue on their way.

Well, how large of a landscape is the center?

Sure, we're 11 168 acres, so we're just under 1200 acres.

Now, how would an education center differ from what people traditionally think of as a state park?

Traditional what most people think of when they think of a state park, they think of camping, they think of overnight accommodations and and we really don't have that. Our resources are really dedicated to that cause of environmental education. You know, our mission is to work with school groups, to work with civic organizations, to work with teachers doing professional development. We are a day use facility.

To clarify, though, do I need to be with a school group or a teacher in order to visit the center?

Yeah, no, so that's, that's, I'm glad you asked that. No, but what I would say is we, from a staff and programming perspective, that's really where our mission lies. We are used heavily as a, let's say, a standard state park for outdoor recreation. So we have people that come horseback riding. We've got substantial mountain biking and a lot of people getting their daily walk and run in, or their dog walk, as it is so. So no, we're open for outdoor recreation. We're open for anyone to come and utilize the park's resources

and by day use. Can we define that for the listener?

Sure, yeah. So day use typically means we're open from from dawn to dusk.

So that may change, because dawn and dusk changes throughout the year. I'm glad the days are getting longer.

Myself, absolutely yes, need more sunlight. So is

there a particular moment or story that really captures why this place matters.

You know, there's there's a lot of different stories. There's no one particular story that I really sort of bring to the forefront. It's more, for me, a collection of interactions and connections with visitors and their stories. As the park manager, a lot of my day deals with. Emails and budgets and, you know, paperwork and administrative stuff, stuff, not, not the fun stuff you know, that people think about like, Oh, you must be out on the trails all day, and, you know, hiking all day. And have, you know, a lot of as the manager, my role is largely administrative. But when I do get out into the park and I get to visit with, you know, talk with the visitors. You know, it's their stories that that really drive home the mission and and what it is that state parks is all about. And those stories range from someone just needing to get away from it all, and jacobsberg serves as that place for them to just find some peace and some grace. Other people are there, and they're utilizing the parks and hiking as their form of recovery, whether it's from substance abuse, whether it's from a medical issue, whether it's mental health, it's they're utilizing the park, and it's become a part of who they are. And they really are so attached to the daily routine of coming to the park, getting in their hike, getting in their walk, getting in the run, or just being and for me, that's really at the heart of what we do, which is providing those opportunities for people to connect and utilize the park in that way. And so it's those stories that really drive home the importance of the role that state parks and environmental education centers serve.

Yeah, as you're talking I had a little flashback to a time when I visited the park and sitting beside the waterway and just, you know, the feeling of peace that I was enveloped with. Now, it is a very peaceful place when there's a lot happening all around you. You know, as you mentioned, it's a very, very it's a county with a lot of development, but there's this sanctuary of jacobsburg.

I mean, one of the first conversations I had as a manager when I first came on was a woman that had called she was concerned she was a cancer survivor or going through cancer treatment, and she would come to the park and sit down in Henry's woods and just stare at the water and the slate, you know, wall on the other side. And it was that was so vital for her. And she was, she was had some concerns about, you know, being able to continue to get to that spot. And, you know, I've talked to other folks that were here more recently, that were out on the trail hiking, because last year he had a stroke and he needed to be more physically active, and this was his place. So now he's here every day, you know, doing two to three miles every day. And those stories, if you interact with when you interact with the visitors, you get those. To me, that's what it's all about.

Yeah, yeah, that is that's so critical. That's so critical. Jacobsburg is hanging up on my wall right now. It's February month in our state park calendar, and there's a picture of it of a historic structure. So you do have history there as well, not just natural history, but cultural history. Can you talk a few minutes about that?

Sure, yeah, so the Henry family is what you're referring to, and that the Henry family was known for their firearms production. They created the Henry long rifle. Now a lot of people might hear Henry Rifle, and they might confuse it with the more modern Henry Rifle you can go buy at Cabela's, but this is a musket style flintlock rifle. A lot of people know it as the Kentucky long rifle. It's the Pennsylvania long rifle. There's in those circles, there's very large, heated debates about its origin. That's not, not pertinent to the story. But the Henry known for making the long Pennsylvania long rifle, they had contracts with the the militia, for the military and for the colonies, from the Revolutionary War all the way through to about the Civil War, they provided arms they probably best known for, for really being the gun of choice for the four fur traders that went out west for the John Jacob Astor fur trade. That family, they started in Lancaster once, and then moved up here into the Lehigh Valley, and then established themselves in jacobsburg, and then at the time Bolton, we would think of them as one geographic area at this time, but at that point in time, they were separate locations. The history of the Henry family here is really what created the land that is now known as as jacobsburg. Org, Environmental Education Center. One of the things that that we talk about in in the cultural history here is that we think of the Roth rocks as big. You know, conservation has been started, starting of the forestry and and there are all these sort of iconic names, but I like to say that we're the most sort of overlooked. The Henry family is overlooked for their conservation ethic. One of the Henry's James Henry was the first to pen legislation promoting the RE vegetation of water courses throughout Pennsylvania. You and I might know that as riparian buffers, right? I'm surprised. Riparian buffers. What happened was, he saw that the clear cutting at the time that was very prevalent across Pennsylvania was causing erosion and destroying of the streams, and he wanted to do something about that, so he wrote this legislation. It made it through two readings, but didn't make it through the third reading, shortly after some of the more iconic folks came on board, Bureau forest. Well, not bureau of forestry, but the forestry came about, and eventually, you know, we got to doing that. But it really was James Henry that that proposed that first legislation to make that happen, which I think is really cool given, given that we're an Environmental Education Center. The other thing is that the Henry's were very open to having their land used and appreciated by the public. They were outdoor enthusiasts at the time, there was a dam here that they used for harvesting ice. There was an ice house, and they had a row boat. They used to go out. They had these big Victorian picnics in the woods. And one of the Henry's Granville Henry had posted signs within the property that very interestingly, mimic a lot of the state park rules and regulations so like, take in, take out, you know, don't pollute, don't litter, no drinking, no alcohol in state parks. One unique one was about no swimming without trousers or or swimwear. That wasn't a good idea because it wasn't allowed. Yeah, typically on Saturdays and Sundays or something like that. I forget verbatim what it was, but yeah, I found it very interesting that the this Henry family, they were, they were industrialists, you know, but they had a strong affinity and appreciation for outdoor recreation, and they were open to sharing that with the with the public, given some basic rules. So I think that's really cool.

That is very cool. And I appreciate I didn't know those things about the Henry so I appreciate learning them. You know, you mentioned a little bit, even as back in the Henry time, you know, people were connecting to place. Many people are particularly, you know, there's generational differences in the connection of people to place. What role does the center play in helping to rebuild connections to the natural world?

Well, you know, we're really focused on providing opportunities for our visitors to connect, being that we're not a standard state park. We don't have overnight accommodations. We don't necessarily serve as like a destination park. There are people that are taking a week long vacation to come to jacobsburg, unless they're coming here to get their PP, FF State Park passport punished, but, but other than that, yeah, and we get a lot of those folks. We get a lot of those folks, but, but we're not really what we call a destination, so we're utilized regularly by a lot of our locals. And then on the weekends, people may be coming from a little bit further out to visit the park because they've heard about it, or just are out on an adventure, but we really try and create opportunities for people to connect to the resource that's through programming and through our volunteer program. So one of the things that we're really trying to do is is offer opportunities for people and families to volunteer with us, and we've got a number of programs that do that. We have a sort of pretty tight knit group of folks that come here once a week called the weekly weeders, and they come and help us with our native plants and native gardens that we have here. We've got volunteers that do anything from, you know, litter pickup to then helping us with programming. So, you know, we have a couple volunteers that started out just doing that like they were. They were coming here, hiking trails, hiking the roads, doing litter cleanup. And as we got to know them, and they attended our programs and became more and more interested. You know, they had some knowledge and background that they were. Fully capable of sharing, and we've now integrated them into some of our programming. So while my staff might not be available on a particular day to offer additional programming, we have some volunteers that are very strong in various backgrounds, and they like to share those opportunities. So we have volunteers through that we're engaged in a lot of community science. So right now, we have our project feeder walk volunteers, so they come and spend some time watching our feeders and recording that data that we then submit to Cornell. And so we're creating those opportunities. We also have a monthly guided hike, where you know people, anyone can sign up to come and go on a guided hike with one of our staff, explore the park in that sense. And then obviously, our public programming provides plenty of opportunities to to connect to the resource with a guided program from from some of our staff. So we're really trying to create opportunities for people to connect, either through programming or through volunteering here at the park and and what we find, it starts to create this little bit of community that that, you know, a lot of people need. And so we see, I'll say, we see a lot of our retired folks as volunteers, active volunteers, because they come they've got a network of friends that are also volunteering, and it's a great way for them to have an additional community outside of what they may have had during the work days.

So for people who might be interested in volunteering, should they go through the conservation volunteer program, and fan jacobsberg, is that the best route? Or should they contact the park directly? What's the what's the route?

Yeah, so I mean, there is the conservation volunteer program, and that has recently been rebooted, so there are some changes to how that program works, but certainly going through our website is one way. We always encourage people to reach out directly. That way we can chat with them, find out what they're interested in, and then provide a little of that personal guidance on, you know, signing up and getting involved.

Okay, because we will link to the to Jacobs burgs website, page of the website in the show notes as as well as you you mentioned about public programming, and I'm sure people can find that on the DC on our calendar of events. Great. You touched on a little bit on my next question, which is, you know, we often talk about connecting to the outdoors throughout the lifespan. So how does Jacobs Berg serve both young learners and older adults. And are there areas of the jacobsburg that are accessible to folks who may have accessibility challenges?

Yeah, so we we connect in a variety of ways. Again, the diversity of our programs helps facilitate that. You know, obviously we're working with school groups during the school year, so we're interacting with our student students of all ages through our school programming. But in the summertime, we have our discovery summer camps. Those go from any three to five year olds all the way up to about 12 to 16 year olds and sometimes a little bit older, depending on what we're offering, but those are summer camp programming. We, in previous years, have partnered with the Pennsylvania Council of the Arts and had a artist in residency program, which was a really cool way to reach out to middle and high school students, nature may not have been their thing to start with right there. They may not be really interested in birds or trees or ecology, but they may have a leaning towards art, and so it was a great way to bring them into the park provide some environmental education, some connection to the park and its resources, but also being guided in a an artist, an artistic way, with a with a professional artist and and so we've had a lot of fun with that over the years, and that's allowed us to reach that sort of age group, which can sometimes be difficult to bring in to the park. Obviously, our volunteers have connected with our with our older audiences, so we work with an organization called Access Services that again, provides a unique audience an opportunity to connect to the park and connect with with nature. And then you asked about accessibility, we have limited accessibility here at the park. For sure, a lot of our trails were sort of designed as, sort of started off as old fishing paths and sort of grew out of that. We do have one who used to be an old. Really trolley line that was turned into a trail, and so the grading width and surfacing is conducive to being on that with some sort of accessible device, whether it be wheelchair or powered wheelchair or something like that. But a lot of our a lot of our trails and resources are, at least on the outside, are not, not very easily covered by people that have challenges.

Mobilities is the is the building open to the public?

The visitors? Absolutely? Yeah, so the building's open and absolutely that's accessible. We have elevators here to get you upstairs. Most of the things to see here are on the first floor anyway, but yeah, we're fully accessible as terms of the visitor center goes. We also have for public programming. We've got some listening devices, some microphones, wireless microphones and earpieces. So folks that may be a little bit harder of hearing when, when we have a presenter, or we have a program indoors, are we asked that our presenters to wear a microphone and then they can they can hear it. Oh, that's great through their earpiece.

Yeah, excellent, excellent. And what types of things would people find in the visitor center?

So we have some pretty low tech interpretive exhibits here. Some things to read, some exhibits to read about. One about the sort of the natural world and the natural resources, and the other is about our history and cultural resources. So they can read and learn more about the Henry family. They can read about the various natural resources that we have, some of the challenges that we face with invasive species, and how we're working to address those. So that's primarily what's what's here. And then we have some, we have some really cool wood carved birds. We had a local artist when the building was being constructed, do some wood carving of some birds that we think have special meaning here to the park because we see them on a regular basis, or there's something that we talk about or want to teach about. So there are these spectacular word wood carvings to see when you first come in, up on one of our higher beams, we have a full size bald eagle that's sort of looking down at you. And it's pretty amazing that to think that was carved out of wood so and then we have a few taxidermy things to look at.

Yeah, I am a fan of the the low tech, because the low tech isn't broken so so many high tech visitor centers. You know, when you go something's not working.

I agree, yeah, we definitely serve more as a visitor center, not not as a museum. We're a modest exhibit tree, and we have information that people that can't get out into the park can learn just by being here within the visitor center.

And it sounds like the visitor center would be a great place for a new visitor to jacobsburg to stop just to get a little orientation, to get a little history, so that you know it could enhance their experience once they go out. And you know, maybe you said you had equestrian trails, mountain biking, walking trails. So, you know, do stop in and if the visitor center is closed, are there maps or other information available to a new visitor to help them orient themselves to place.

Yeah, that's That's great. So our vestibule is open. It has plenty of interpretive information. Park maps. Are there other materials that they can pick up, restrooms, that they that they can utilize, and then at each of our parking lots and most of our trail heads have Park maps that are available to take and use. So and then within the park, we also have some interpretive voice sides that talk about the history, talk about the natural history of where they are and what what they're seeing. So while it's not all inclusive, there is more interpretive information out there.

Excellent. Thank you for clarifying that you mentioned that you do have some partnerships and you utilize volunteers. How else is the community engaged in what you're doing there at jacobsburg?

You know, to practice your first question, one of the unique things about jacobsburg is that we, I as, as the manager here am the CO lead of a conservation landscape here in in the Lehigh Valley. So DCNR, back in 2004 started a program called the conservation landscape Initiative, where they looked at various regions within. In Pennsylvania that had the right mix of sort of state land resources in terms of partners and other conservation minded organizations and and looked at at, well, if we brought everyone together and seeded it with a little bit of money, how can we move conservation, recreation, trails and sustainability and green initiatives further faster, by working with our partners? And it doesn't seem like such a far stretch of an idea right now, but at the time, you know, all the organizations that were out there. You know, we're all kind of doing our thing right and and if there was a reason to get together at maybe a statewide conference, we'd see each other. Hey, how's it going? Blah, blah, blah. But the conservation landscape program made it a priority to bring everyone together at the table and say, Hey, we're all in this world, working in sort of the same world, but we're all going in different directions. If we can all get together and agree on certain things that we want to achieve in our landscape, maybe we can get there a little bit further, a little bit faster and and so the Lehigh Valley greenways conservation landscape grew up around the idea of huge development happening, developmental pressure from from housing developments at the time, you know, so a lot of loss of our farmland and and green spaces, and the idea that maybe we can conserve those green spaces around our streams and creeks and find ways of connecting our three metropolitan cities, which are Allentown, Bethlehem and Easton, through a network of trails. That's sort of how the Lehigh Valley greenways conservation landscape concept was was born. And so as a one of the leads of that program, I get to work with all those different organizations and and for me, it's a great way to look outside of jacobsburg itself, to see the network of green that we have within the Lehigh Valley, and to make positive changes, you know, we talked about, you know, those connections, those stories, right? And how important that is, right? But so now I'm able to help facilitate that story across the Lehigh Valley, not just here at jacobsburg, right? So we're building parks and and preserves, and we're connecting those green spaces to these metropolitan areas and providing opportunities for you know, people to access the green spaces wherever they are, so that they can have those moments of peace, you know, in nature across the Lehigh Valley. And to me, that's really big. I'm a lifelong resident of Lehigh Valley, so it's very, very important to me the work that we're doing here, because it's bigger than just jacobsburg. It's, it's across the valley, and I'm proud of our community.

It really is, and I will link to the conservation landscape website, but you also touch on an important thing, and that is that you mentioned that it's jacobsburg isn't necessarily a destination, but the Lehigh Valley is a destination, and there's a lot of things to do, so visiting jacobsburg is one thing that you could do when you could be on the Delaware Lee hike, you know, right canal, the greenways, there's greenways, there are museums, there's a lot of things that would keep you as a visitor in the area. So make it a destination, if you're not from the Lehigh Valley, and you'll be amazed with all the opportunities that you have to to engage.

Yeah, we see, we say we're in the quality of life business and and, you know, I think we've demonstrated time and again that that the idea of sustainability, green infrastructure, trails and recreation are not counter to economic development. In fact, they're the seeds of it. In my mind, time and time again, we've got towns that have shown, you know, you put a little investment into a trail that runs through your town. Next thing you know, you've got a bike shop, next thing you know you've got a coffee shop, next thing, you got a brewery. And I say, if you have those three things, you've got the seed for success in your community. You got a trail, a place to get coffee and a place to have a beer, you're off and running, and the chances of your town blossoming from that are very high. And so, yeah, you're right. While Jacobs Burg isn't considered a destination Park. The Lehigh Valley is, for sure, a destination location and and I think all the work that we do within the conservation landscape revolving around trails and green space only enhance, enhance the Lehigh Valley in that, that sense,

absolutely, I always like it. Ice Cream Shop too.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Well, so let me tell you this anecdote. So it's not about ice cream, but the borough of Hellertown, which is sort of on the south side of of the city of Bethlehem, they have a trail that comes through, and it's the Saucon Rail Trail, and there's right in downtown Hellertown, there's a bike shop, Saucon Valley bikes, and the gentleman that owns the bike shop knew he was on to something here with the trail and the success of the trail, not by the number of bikes that were being sold, but by the number of baskets that were being sold for the bikes, because in Hellertown there was they had a farmer's market that sat in a park adjacent to the trail, and what he was seeing is that people were now using the trail as a means to get to the farmer's market make sure they had the basket so that they could bring their goods home. They were stopping for coffee along the way, you know. So it was, it was not the bike itself, but the baskets, which meant the trail was more than just a recreational thing. It was now a transportation vehicle, a way for people to get around without having to get in their car. And which, again, common sense, but until you see it and connect those dots, it's it's pretty amazing. So that's just like one of the many very cool stories that that we see proof in, in the pudding, we see what those partnerships and investment in, in the conservation landscapes can do.

You painted a picture of a very lovely morning, getting up on Saturday, having some coffee or tea and going to the farmers market, connecting with family and friends, yeah. Looking ahead when visitors leave jacobsburg, what do you hope they carry with them? Yeah.

So for me, it's one peace and serenity, right? So they've come to jacobsburg. They've I hope they've had a very positive experience, got the endorphins that they need, and then I hope they come away with a sense of opportunity, that there's an opportunity for them to connect to jacobsburg, whether it's through attending our programs, or whether it's becoming a volunteer. And I want them to leave feeling like, oh, this is a place that I could come to on a regular basis, that I'd want to come to on a regular basis. They feel connected to because they've had a positive experience.

I love that. Is there anything else that you would like to share about jacobsburg, about its future, any projects that you're working on. As we begin to wrap up.

We don't have anything big going on right now. We just recently completed a stream restoration project through the Henry's Woods section of the park. It's our most popular section. It's a trail. It runs right along the trail. Runs right along the Bushkill Creek with three water access points. And then if you circle back, you can come up above the creek, and the trail hikes up above the creek. So it's two different perspectives down along the creek and way up above it, sort of at canopy level, which is pretty cool. So it's our most popular section show. We just completed a stream bank restoration project there that was last year, and we added an additional water access point, because people wanted to get to the part get to the water as quick as they can. And so that was a really good project, because it was a project that was sort of 25 years old and had been well loved, and so high water events and hurricanes and multiple weather events had beaten down those water access points, and they really needed some rehab. And the stream bank itself needed to be rehabbed. So I'm happy that we have that that's it's a real nice addition to or up upgrade to the to the park, into the trail. Other than that, just sort of keep your eyes open for what events we have coming up here at the park as part of our regular public programming. I would encourage people to come out and and do that and and certainly ask about volunteering opportunities. We'd love to grow that base and and have you become part of our community

with water access? I assume that fishing is an activity that occurs.

Yeah, we do have two streams. We have the bush kill Creek and we have the sobers run, which is a tributary to the to the bush kill Creek. It is a stocked trout stream by fish and boat commission. So yes, there's fishing opportunities. We also have an extensive loaner program. So we have loaner equipment if you don't have a fishing rod or maybe never been fishing, but want to give it a try, we've got the equipment, we've got fishing rods, we've got the bait and the tackle to provide to you so you can give it a try. You. So we have that loaner program. We also have in the wintertime, when we have enough snow, we have snowshoes that we loan out. So people, that's another thing you know, people, people haven't tried maybe snowshoeing before, and we have an opportunity to let you try the snowshoes, and if you like them. You can invest in them on your own, or you just keep coming back. But in the past years, it's been slow because we haven't had enough snow to really make it worth it, but, but this year we've been able to so we have some of that recreational equipment on on loan for folks as well.

I'm so glad that you mentioned that, because that is a great resource for people. Do want to clarify that if you're over the age of 16, you do need, unless it's a fish for free day, you do need a Pennsylvania fish and boat commission fishing license. If you're under the age of 16, you're able to borrow it, and don't need a license.

That's correct. Or if it's a fish for free day, that's true. One other thing I'll mention is that, particularly for the young ones, so we have some loaner activity packs, so there's small backpacks that have various things, like little containers for catching bugs and and putting water in it and catching, you know, little fish if you can, and little nets and some pencils, colored pencils, some notepads, small pair of binoculars, Just little things to take out with your young ones to help with the engagement of nature. I think there's high value in just taking on a hike, but I know having kids sometimes having some additional tools to help them engage with the creek is or with nature itself is pretty valuable. So we have those for loan as well. None of those things cost anything. So those the fishing rods, the snow shoes, the loaner backpacks, those are all free. We just ask that you come to the front desk, you leave something like a driver's license, and then you're off to the races.

Well, thank you very much, Rob. I really appreciate your time. Jacobsburg is a wonderful place. I hope that people who haven't been there are inspired to come visit, and I hope that people that have been there will maybe consider taking it up a next step and becoming a volunteer and being, you know, a steward of the place that is so special in the landscape.

Thank you for having me. We welcome everyone, and you know whether you can get to Jacobs bird or not, find that special place in nature that's going to do good for you and give you some peace and enjoy the outdoor spaces wherever you are.

Very good advice. Thank you, Rob thanks, Marci,

thank you for listening to Think Outside, where every episode invites you to discover new places, build confidence and find inspiration in nature. Love the show. Subscribe for more inspiration, share with a fellow Explorer, and let's keep thinking outside together. For more resources and inspiration, visit thinkoutsidepodcast.org.