Shownotes
State of the Second 1x46 brings on competitive shooter, instructor, and firearms writer Kenzie for a conversation about how to actually get into the gun industry and the shooting sports. Hosts John and Kaylee open from Gatlinburg, Tennessee, where they're prepping for GOA's convention in Knoxville this August. Kenzie shares her path: she grew up around guns and hunting, joined the rifle association at Florida State University, made its pistol team, and spiraled into nearly every discipline she could find, from GSSF and Steel Challenge to USPSA, three gun, cowboy action, IDPA, NRL 22, and PRS. She got her permit in Florida at 21, taught concealed carry for a decade across Florida and Tennessee, and now writes, runs YouTube, and hosts her own podcast.
A large part of the episode is about lowering the barrier to entry. Kenzie and the hosts push listeners to try at least one competition even if they're terrible at it, because the pressure test is worth it. They talk about how easy it is to start with a Glock at a GSSF match, the camaraderie at the range, and people like Battle Buddy 3 Gun and shooters with disabilities who prove there are no excuses. Kenzie describes bringing friends to matches with gear, ammo, and guns in hand, and running a women-only event that's grown to roughly 92 attendees in its fifth year.
The group gets candid about women in the industry. Kenzie says it took ten years and a lot of work to be taken seriously, and that brands and gun shops are finally listening instead of trying to 'shrink it and pink it.' They talk through slimline carry guns built for women, the importance of fit and reaching the trigger, and a gun-shop scene where a clerk tried to sell a beginner a 500 S&W Magnum. The back half turns to training: the state minimum is a floor not a finish line, constitutional carry has driven demand for more class options, and you should vet instructors hard because an NRA credential alone proves little. Practicescore rankings, round counts, and whether an instructor can demonstrate a drill on command are the real tells. Kenzie can be found at her website and on Instagram as 3gunkenzie, and GOA's convention runs August 17th and 18th in Knoxville.
Links
Questions this episode answers
How do you get started in competitive shooting if you've never done it before?
Just sign up and try one match even if you're terrible at it, because the pressure test is worth it. Kenzie started by joining her university's rifle association, making the pistol team, and then branching into nearly every discipline she could find.
What's the cheapest, easiest way to enter your first match?
Start with a Glock at a GSSF match, which is an easy on-ramp with a welcoming, camaraderie-driven range crowd. Kenzie also brings new shooters to matches with the gear, ammo, and guns already in hand so cost and equipment aren't barriers.
What's it like being a woman in the competitive shooting space and the firearms industry?
Kenzie says it took about ten years and a lot of work to be taken seriously in the industry. The upside is that brands and gun shops are finally listening to women instead of trying to 'shrink it and pink it.'
Are gun shops giving good buying advice to first-time and women buyers?
Not always. Kenzie recounts a clerk who tried to sell a beginner a 500 S&W Magnum, which is why she stresses that you have to have a voice in a gun shop and not just take what you're handed.
What carry guns are actually built for women who want to carry on the body?
Slimline carry guns designed with women in mind, where fit matters and the shooter can actually reach the trigger. The episode frames proper fit as more important than marketing a gun as a 'women's' model.
Why is the state-mandated concealed carry class minimum not enough training?
The state minimum is a floor, not a finish line. As constitutional carry has driven demand for more options, Kenzie and the hosts argue the bare-minimum class is just a starting point and ongoing training beyond it is the real goal.
How do you vet a firearms instructor before paying for a class?
Vet them hard, because a credential like an NRA certification alone proves little. The real tells are Practiscore rankings, round counts, and whether the instructor can demonstrate a drill on command.
How can you find or build a shooting community or training event in your area?
Bring friends to matches and lean on the built-in range camaraderie, and create the event you want if it doesn't exist. Kenzie runs a women-only shooting event that has grown to roughly 92 attendees in its fifth year.
Chapters
- 00:09 — Prepping for the Knoxville convention
- 02:58 — Kenzie's path into shooting and the industry
- 04:36 — Why everyone should try one competition
- 07:58 — Growing the shooting sports by bringing friends
- 11:05 — Being a woman in a male industry
- 14:52 — More women, fewer 'shrink it and pink it' guns
- 18:51 — Carry guns actually built for women
- 21:29 — When the gun shop sells you the wrong gun
- 27:45 — Hosting women's events and demo days
- 38:38 — Training off the range and dry fire
- 39:58 — Why the state minimum class isn't enough
- 47:47 — Training deserts and traveling instructors
- 50:50 — How to vet a firearms instructor
- 56:19 — Where to find Kenzie and convention details
About the guest
Kenzie is a competitive shooter, firearms instructor, and writer in the firearms industry. She grew up around guns and hunting, with both grandfathers and her father into firearms. At Florida State University she joined the school's rifle association and made its pistol team, then competed across disciplines including GSSF, Steel Challenge, USPSA, two gun, three gun, cowboy action, IDPA, NRL 22, and PRS. She got her permit in Florida at 21 and taught concealed carry for ten years in Florida and Tennessee, and is now 31. She also does private training, runs a YouTube channel and her own podcast, and hosts a women-only shooting event now in its fifth year. Her surname is not stated in this episode. [VERIFY]
Key quotes
"So I think that's where people see the overnight success and don't really see the work behind it to get there." — Kenzie
"I encourage everyone to go do a competition at least one time, even if you don't like it." — Kaylee
"You have to have a voice in a gun shop." — Kenzie
"It's a minimum requirement for a reason. It's the bare minimum you can do." — John
"There's also training deserts where there's just not an opportunity to receive quality further instruction." — Kaylee
"The NRA credential of an instructor means absolute jack." — Kenzie
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kayleigh.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're here with Kenzie three Gun.
Speaker B:Kenzie, how are you?
Speaker C:I'm good.
Speaker A:How are you guys?
Speaker B:Oh, I'm doing amazing.
Speaker B:We are here in beautiful Gatlinburg, Tennessee, getting prepped for our convention in Knoxville coming up here in August.
Speaker C:I'm excited for that.
Speaker B:I'm super pumped for that.
Speaker B:It's going to be crazy.
Speaker C:Thanks for doing it near me.
Speaker C:And Kaylee, appreciative.
Speaker B:Well, that was her all her idea.
Speaker C:I like it.
Speaker C:It's the first time I've never had to travel for something like, I know, like, seriously.
Speaker A:I decided and it was a group decision, but since I'm the point person on the project that traveling to go handle logistics, not fun.
Speaker A:Sounded like more than I was willing to do just because hometown advantage, like, oh, yeah, you know, the food trucks are going to be great because I eat there.
Speaker A:Like, you know, like, you know, the lay of the land.
Speaker C:You can sleep in your own bed at night.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:It's gonna be so awesome.
Speaker A:It's gonna be great.
Speaker A:I'm super, super excited.
Speaker A:Plus, Knoxville's not had a event like this and we have a great Knox county mayor that supports our gun rights, Glenn Jacob.
Speaker A:And so it's exciting to see leadership in a county that has a city that's actually pro gun, which it's not something that happens.
Speaker A:And that doesn't mean that Knoxville was without its batt.
Speaker A:Have to fight to make sure that we can conceal carry at the convention center.
Speaker A:So, you know, we had to work that into our contract and, and thank the Lord for our lawyers who are, are good at negotiating all of those things.
Speaker A:But it's exciting to bring it, to bring the convention home.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker C:Yeah, good job on that.
Speaker C:Concealed carry.
Speaker C:I mean, concealed carry.
Speaker C:What are they going to know anyways?
Speaker C:But I'm glad it's in a contract.
Speaker B:She didn't like my idea.
Speaker B:I was just going to run around, tear down all the signs.
Speaker B:She said, no, you can't do that.
Speaker B:That's against the law.
Speaker A:Well, you know, let commit felonies, like,.
Speaker C:Just as a general rule, that's probably.
Speaker A:Not the thing that we should be doing, but no, I mean, anytime.
Speaker A:And I think that these kind of conventions, when we show safe, responsible gun owners being safe, responsible gun owners and conceal carrying and there's not an incident, what does that do for us when we go back and actually try to repeal the signage laws in Tennessee?
Speaker A:You know, we Got permitless carry.
Speaker A:It's far from being a complete bill.
Speaker A:Um, but it was a step in the right direction.
Speaker A:And so the more things that we're able to show is going to help move, move the winds further down, down the court.
Speaker A:So it's exciting.
Speaker A:I'm, I'm super pumped.
Speaker A:I hope everyone has made plans.
Speaker B:So, Kenzie, go ahead and, you know, share your backstory.
Speaker B:Let people know who you are, what you do.
Speaker B:And we kind of jumped right into the convention.
Speaker B:But let's, let's get a little info backstory about you.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So I grew up around guns.
Speaker C:Grew up hunting.
Speaker C:Both my grandpas were into firearms.
Speaker C:My dad, my gosh, huge collector for sure.
Speaker C:And so for me, like, that was really nice because I really didn't think about like, oh, that's dangerous, or why is there a gun there?
Speaker C:Like, it was just.
Speaker C:It was what it was.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so in college when I was at Florida State University, they actually had started a pistol, like, team.
Speaker C:So they had what's called the Rifle association fsu.
Speaker C:And it was only formed a year before I found it by students that were like, hey, we should have a gun club.
Speaker C:We should go compete.
Speaker C:Because other collegiate teams were also competing.
Speaker C:Um, so I tried out for the team and made the team.
Speaker C:And I was kind of surprised because, you know, competing is something I had never done.
Speaker C:And I was like, am I good enough?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:But that spiraled the journey to shooting competitions.
Speaker C:So I shot every single type of competition you can name, like the GSSF Steel Challenge, USPSA two gun, three gun, cowboy action.
Speaker C:I won't dump it all on everybody, but.
Speaker C:And then when I turned 21, I got my permit in Florida and I actually started teaching.
Speaker C:So 31 now, and I taught for 10 years, a whole decade now in Florida and Tennessee for concealed carry permits.
Speaker C:And then I also, like, do private training as well, like teaching women how to carry on their body and not off body carry.
Speaker C:Trying to get away from that.
Speaker C:And then I am now a writer in the firearms industry.
Speaker C:Never thought I would be there.
Speaker C:Have no idea how I landed there.
Speaker C:Still kind of every day doing YouTube, doing my own podcast.
Speaker C:I don't sleep.
Speaker C:That's the solution.
Speaker B:That sounds like everybody in the industry, right?
Speaker B:We don't sleep.
Speaker C:We have things to accomplish.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a little bit about me.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:I encourage everyone to go do a competition at least one time, even if you don't like it.
Speaker A:I think the pressure test that that gives you is important.
Speaker A:I shot my first event, let's see, four years ago now, which was a GSSF event, and it was just a low pressure environment.
Speaker A:But, man, when you hear that timer go off, like, there's something about your heart that starts racing a little more and you're like, okay, like, I need to train this aspect a little bit more when that adrenaline's pumping.
Speaker A:And so I encourage everyone to go, at least do one competition.
Speaker A:It's okay if you suck.
Speaker C:You're sure you will just suck.
Speaker C:You will.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Promise that.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:It's exciting and I love to see more people do it.
Speaker A:And even if you only do it once, at least you know what it's like to be in that pressure environment.
Speaker C:Did you do an indoor one or did you do an outdoor?
Speaker A:I didn't outdoor one.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:That was the same thing that I started.
Speaker C:First competition ever was that.
Speaker C:And it was really easy because I think I'm not a big Glock fan now, but, like, I think 90% of gun owners don't have a Glock.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So it's really easy to just go out there.
Speaker C:You don't need a holster, you don't need mag pouches.
Speaker C:Like, it's just so easy to get into that competition.
Speaker A:So check the weather first for your first competition.
Speaker C:Mine was 114degrees in August in Florida.
Speaker A:Oh, nice.
Speaker A:Mine was freezing and raining with sleet off and on.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:It was an experience being outside.
Speaker A:And we were all just like, huddled up.
Speaker A:I had gone after the first night of just being so ridiculously cold, I had gone to Walmart and bought all of the hot hands, so I was making friends pretty fast.
Speaker A:But it was.
Speaker C:It was a time that makes you tougher than most people, though.
Speaker C:Like, I tell that to women all the time that want to come compete, and even men.
Speaker C:It's like, hey, at least you showed up.
Speaker C:You know, 90% of people aren't showing up, and it makes you tougher.
Speaker C:And it's funny because, like gssf, you have a lot of canopies and you're standing and shooting.
Speaker C:In the world of three gun, we don't quit for anything.
Speaker C:So we've shot in snow, hail, rain all the time, and it's just so uncomfortable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm just glad mine was inside.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:My first.
Speaker B:My first match was in an indoor range.
Speaker B:It was beautiful.
Speaker C:Air conditioned.
Speaker B:Yeah, air conditioned, you know, but people.
Speaker C:Don't know that there's indoor and outdoor competitions.
Speaker C:There are two different styles of shooting and Very easy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And there's guns to win.
Speaker C:There's Guns to win cash prizes.
Speaker C:Like Glock does a really good job at putting stuff up, you know, for people that perform.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What I like is there's a low barrier to entry.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so if you are somebody who just got your first gun and maybe you, you picked out a Glock, like you get to basically go compete immediately.
Speaker A:And I think that that's so exciting because that kind of training, that kind of atmosphere, that kind of camaraderie only comes in that environment 100%.
Speaker A:And so, you know, find a style that you like.
Speaker A:You may, you don't have to stay with one competition.
Speaker A:You can do multiple kinds.
Speaker C:I didn't even mention IDPA or NRL 22 or PRS.
Speaker C:Like I'm addicted.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But that's exciting and, and I hope more people get involved and, and that will mean more competitions pop up.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker A:All, all across the country and you know, more opportunities.
Speaker A:But it's incumbent upon us to grow that the shooting sport side of things.
Speaker C:So I want to touch on that because there's a lot of people that talk about growing the shooting sports and there's not a lot of action and, and where I come from that.
Speaker C:And I'm just speaking on what I've done and what other people could do is, um, I've had my friend Betsy, my friend Malin and my friend Brooke literally show up to matches with an inner belt.
Speaker C:And that's what I told them to do.
Speaker C:They've shot three gun, they've shot cqb, they've shot another three gun match.
Speaker C:And so I tell people, like, if you show up, I'll bring you guns, ammo gear.
Speaker C:Like you, you just show up.
Speaker C:And my friends have done that.
Speaker C:I know females that have done that, which is so exciting.
Speaker C:But when we grow the shooting sports, I just wish more people actually said like, hey, I'm bringing you with me.
Speaker C:Hey, come with me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, I know not everybody could just give away ammo or what have you.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But they're so, so much of a community there that there is people willing to help you get started in competitions.
Speaker C:And you know, I see that with parents, like parents that are doing a really good job bringing their kids in, like still challenge and man, those kids are whooping our butts.
Speaker C:Like some of the best shooters in the country are under 16 years old.
Speaker C:And so that's where like seeing those generations are really impactful.
Speaker C:But I would, I would like to see more people actually like bring a friend of friends.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And more to that point, you know, Battle Buddy 3 Gun is doing just an absolute, a fantastic job crushing it at bringing people who might be considered an alienated community within the Second Amendment community and out giving them the opportunity to compete too.
Speaker C:I just shot with them, by the way, at Battle for the south three Gun.
Speaker A:Oh, awesome.
Speaker C:I was about to see the new chair because I actually know those guys for a while.
Speaker C:But actually seeing the holster that they designed and everything for them, oh my gosh, it's amazing.
Speaker A:It's amazing.
Speaker A:And I love seeing that.
Speaker A:And so I'm hoping more people that are listening to this will, you know, regardless of their skill level, you know, just come out, hang out if you're so intimidated.
Speaker A:And it can be intimidating that you don't want to go shoot for the first time.
Speaker A:I promise if you just go into that environment and just hang out for the day, you're going to come back.
Speaker C:Have you seen Bubba?
Speaker C:He's born with no arms.
Speaker C:Have you seen him shoot with his feet?
Speaker A:I have not.
Speaker C:It's incredible.
Speaker B:I have seen him shoot.
Speaker C:So I have a video of him shooting.
Speaker C:It was like South Carolina sectional.
Speaker C:And they set up these chairs at each position and so he would get up and move and then he can literally fire the gun with his feet and aim.
Speaker C:So it's incredible.
Speaker C:Like there's zero excuses now, like, hey, he can do it.
Speaker C:You know, we see nub shooter, like Battle Buddy three Gun.
Speaker C:I got to watch him.
Speaker C:I have a video again on my phone where they breached the door with the shotgun.
Speaker C:Then they, they literally pushed his chair around it and then he got shoot shotgun, shoot rifle and like you have a friend.
Speaker C:Amazing.
Speaker C:You understand, like that's, it's fun to watch.
Speaker B:The guy I just got to meet in Colorado last year, no handed shooter.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:He's fantastic.
Speaker B:Such a cool guy.
Speaker B:Such a good story.
Speaker B:Again, same thing.
Speaker B:He was born, I believe he was born with no hands and he's in shooting competitions and he's killing it.
Speaker C:Oh yeah.
Speaker C:Oh yeah, he's good.
Speaker C:He shot the full auto Genesis to 12 gauge at shot show.
Speaker C:We finally got put hands on that.
Speaker C:But I was like, hell yeah.
Speaker C:That's awesome.
Speaker C:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:So what is it?
Speaker B:So you, you're in the competitive shooting space.
Speaker B:What's it like being a female not only in the competitive shooting space, but also in the industry?
Speaker C:It's tough coming up in the industry.
Speaker C:Like I really wasn't well known and you really had to kind of make this like credibility or like sort of name for yourself.
Speaker C:So the first two years of competition I actually worked As a range officer, just kind of met a lot of the vendors and I met like people from Staccato and Hunter's HD Gold.
Speaker C:And just every single time I went to a match, I was just kind of meeting people from Federal, like, you name it.
Speaker C:And so it took years.
Speaker C:And people see this like, Kenzie, you're, You're.
Speaker C:I don't want to say famous, right?
Speaker C:Or like, kenzie, you're successful or whatever.
Speaker C:It took me 10 years.
Speaker C:So I, I talk about this a lot, but I had to first prove that I could shoot.
Speaker C:Like, I'm not just a female.
Speaker C:It goes out and be like, I'm a competitive shooter.
Speaker C:Like, no, I can shoot.
Speaker C:And then had to also become an armorer and work on my own guns and be able to speak the language and stuff.
Speaker C:So I, I think a lot of, a lot of, like the coming up in that is really proving that you know your stuff, right?
Speaker C:Um, you know, there are brands that would just see a female, like, I'm going to work with her.
Speaker C:No, there are really good brands are like, hey, we want the best females or females that take this, like as a business or as a career.
Speaker C:Um, and so it's been challenging.
Speaker C:And then in the world of shooting sports, I will say this because it's so much fun.
Speaker C:I just shot an AK match.
Speaker C:I shot a three gun match.
Speaker C:And I'm.
Speaker C:I'm so blessed.
Speaker C:I had a goal to win High lady at all three of my last matches and I have.
Speaker C:But then my goal has now been to beat my friends, right?
Speaker C:Beat the guys and we shoot together.
Speaker C:We have a great time.
Speaker C:And it's funny because the last two three gun matches, I beat my friend by literally one spot and then the other match by one spot too.
Speaker C:And so they're like.
Speaker C:And it was the most amazing compliment.
Speaker C:They said, kenzie, like, we're now seeing your name on a list and be like, oh, she's a serious competitor.
Speaker C:Like, we have to go against her.
Speaker C:I have to beat her.
Speaker C:And I'm like, Dang, it took 10 years.
Speaker C:Like, that's just.
Speaker C:It was a lot of work.
Speaker C:So I think that's where people see the overnight success and don't really see the work behind it to get there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, getting in this industry as a female has to be hard.
Speaker B:But just getting into this industry and once you start getting to know people and you're building connections, at first it's like, okay, you're just some random person who steps up, but the more they see you, the more they Talk to you.
Speaker B:Then all of a sudden you become friends and then you, you've got to really prove yourself, which is kind of different than I would say most industries.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it's also good because once you've proven yourself and you just make so many friends.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, you probably see this too.
Speaker C:There's like a cyclical rate kind of where I see a lot of people come in and a lot of people exit real fast.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Me, I'm like 10 years, every event you can imagine, NRA Shot Show, CanCon, Clash, Bash, like, people are like, I literally just saw you in South Carolina now in Texas and here.
Speaker C:And I'm like, yeah, I will show up.
Speaker C:That's what I do.
Speaker A:No, I, I think that that speaks to just your passion.
Speaker A:And I, I do want to like, just talk about how much growth people see in that 10 year time frame.
Speaker A:Like, you are not the same shooter that you were year one, thank God.
Speaker A:And, and, but you're also, you know, not the same personality that you are year one.
Speaker A:Like, you have grown into not only a fierce competitor, but a fierce advocate for women.
Speaker A:And, and that's exciting to see because, you know, it wasn't very long ago that the women's bathroom at shot show, like there was never a line.
Speaker A:Like, let's be honest, you know, you could walk into any restroom at any firearms event and like it was the only time and people would, would make that joke.
Speaker A:You know, like shot show is the only time where there's a line at the men's room.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And, and which I do love, by the way.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker C:I'm like, oh, this is revenge.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, agreed.
Speaker A:But it is exciting to see that, that more women are getting involved and I think that is reflecting in those first time gun owners.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't think that there was just a switch one day in America where they were like, you know, I'm, I'm going to be a gun owner.
Speaker A:I think it's been a long paved road where women have come up in the industry.
Speaker A:We, we've had conversations that, that were tough conversations.
Speaker A:You know, having the conversation with a brand that, hey, you're not going to fix everything by shrink it and pink it.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:It is a hard conversation.
Speaker A:And, and so it's been allowing to, to give input and, and to be vocal and to be present that I think has given women the ability to go and view your channel and, and say, you know, this doesn't look as scary as I thought I did.
Speaker A:And, and those people are telling their friends.
Speaker A:And that's why you're seeing that.
Speaker A:I think you're seeing some of the shift where you're seeing more women join the firearms community year on year on year than any other group.
Speaker A:And I think that's a powerful statement.
Speaker A:And I'm exciting.
Speaker A:I'm exciting.
Speaker C:Exciting.
Speaker A:You're good words.
Speaker A:I'm excited to see how the community is responding because it isn't divisive.
Speaker A:It is a community and we are coming together and we are holding events and we're hosting events and they're.
Speaker A:And they're changing products and they're making things that fit our hand better and they're, they're listening and those kind of things are vital to the success of the second Amendment.
Speaker B:Well, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:I mean, for years, and I've been doing this for, God, so long now.
Speaker C:Don't think about it.
Speaker B:But it was like, for years it was, you're right, it was shrink it and pink it and now.
Speaker B:Or shrink it and Tiffany blue or leopard print or sparkles or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah, I saw sparkles recently and I was pissed because it was literally glitter for concealed carry guns.
Speaker C:They had, sorry, pink, teal and purple.
Speaker C:And I was like, if you put that in your pants, you are going to have a glitter bomb down there.
Speaker B:Glitter is the worst craft supply.
Speaker B:I want to, I want to put that on record.
Speaker B:That is the worst craft supply.
Speaker B:But it seemed like even since I've started, there's been a shift.
Speaker B:There's more females in the, in the marketing side of the industry.
Speaker B:There's more female on the selling side.
Speaker B:There's just more females in general.
Speaker B:I mean, you're right.
Speaker B:We were talking about, speaking of Shot show, like, we were.
Speaker B:Kaylee and I were talking about in the men's room at Shot show.
Speaker B:There's advertisement for companies.
Speaker B:And she's like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's nothing.
Speaker C:Wonderful space.
Speaker B:I'm like, what do you mean?
Speaker B:There's advertisements everywhere.
Speaker B:She's like, no, there's not.
Speaker B:I'm like, ah, okay, so somebody, there's an opportunity for somebody to advertise in the women's restroom at Shot Show.
Speaker B:But that's the thing.
Speaker B:Like, it's, it's totally shifted where we're seeing more.
Speaker B:We'll take Lena's gun.
Speaker B:Like the rose is coming out and it's not just pink.
Speaker B:It's, you know, there's touches of rose gold or it's not just blue.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker C:It's A community behind it.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Dry fire bullets are in there.
Speaker C:So you have a lot of training aspect with that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's great to see that.
Speaker B:It's just not the walking into the gun shop anymore and saying, you know what you need?
Speaker B:You need a snub nose revolver or you need this pink or Tiffany blue thing.
Speaker B:It's really coming.
Speaker B:It's come a long way and I love to see that it's come a long way.
Speaker B:We've changed the way we treat women in the industry.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I just did.
Speaker C:It'll be out probably by the time the podcast out.
Speaker C:I did a video with Classic Firearms specifically by myself on top five guns that I recommend for females to concealed carry, if it fits them.
Speaker C:And the Sig Rose was there.
Speaker C:The Glock 48, 43X.
Speaker C:Like anything slimline, Iwi Masada slim.
Speaker C:That's what I carry every day.
Speaker C:And then the Walther pdpf.
Speaker C:And so all of these guns I didn't, I have like preached about this is they're listening to females, they're giving a slimmer design so they can carry it on their body and they still have the capacity.
Speaker C:That's the thing that I had issues with with the Glock 42 or 43 is like six rounds, seven rounds, like come on guys.
Speaker C:So that's, that's what I really appreciate that they're actually listening, like you said, feedback and what women want, what women need to fit their hands, especially reaching the trigger.
Speaker C:So many of these guns, even me, pretty decent sized hands can't reach the trigger on some of these guns.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I wear a child size large glove.
Speaker A:So my options.
Speaker C:How'd you find that out?
Speaker A:Well, I have yet to purchase adult gloves.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker A:It's fairly, it's, you know, it's fine.
Speaker A:I, I'm a five foot person.
Speaker A:Like I'm not, I'm not intimidating and, and that's one of the reasons why I purchased my first gun to begin with is because I wanted to protect myself and I, I do want to make this point be known.
Speaker A:If you are a woman listening to this podcast.
Speaker A:We are not shaming you for owning a pink gun.
Speaker A:No, we are not shaming you.
Speaker A:If you have glitter, that's your choice.
Speaker A:I, glitter is banned from my house.
Speaker A:So like you do you.
Speaker A:But like I would rather you be.
Speaker C:Armed 100% than nothing.
Speaker A:Than nothing.
Speaker A:But options are amazing.
Speaker A:And Omaha Outdoors has the.
Speaker A:I believe it's their exclusive color.
Speaker A:I could be wrong, but the Plum Hellcat.
Speaker C:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:Is amazing.
Speaker C:My Slim Cerakoted purple.
Speaker A:I like purple.
Speaker A:And the reason I love it is because there's just you.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I was trying not to yawn.
Speaker C:Rude.
Speaker C:Listen to girls.
Speaker C:Kidding.
Speaker A:What I love about the Plum Hellcat is it has just enough of a color to make you feel like you have a color, but it is so concealable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there.
Speaker A:And I think I've said this story before on the podcast, so if you're listening and you're like, you can fast forward.
Speaker A:If I have.
Speaker A:I can't remember, but one of the very first classes I went to was a concealed carry class.
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:The instructor's up front and he's going through concealed carrying and applications.
Speaker A:And like, you know, you try not to flash your gun sometimes it's inevitable.
Speaker A:But this is the things that you do.
Speaker A:And this woman comes in and she's there with her Tiffany blue gun with silver, bright silver accents.
Speaker A:And she's got her, like, straight up neon, like, complimentary holster, and everything that she's got is completely decked out.
Speaker A:And you can just see as the conversation.
Speaker A:And he's going.
Speaker A:It was a great instructor.
Speaker A:He's going thoroughly into, you know, can still carry and like, you know what you're trying to accomplish with the gun.
Speaker A:And you can.
Speaker A:You can tell that those were not conversations that were had with her behind the camera.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And to watch her deflate because the gun that she purchased wasn't actually the gun she needed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was devastating because you could see it all over her face.
Speaker A:It's not that she bought a bad gun.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's just it wasn't the right gun for the application.
Speaker A:And that should have been a conversation that was had before she ever swiped her card.
Speaker C:Every gun store that I have gone into is pretty abysmal when it comes to education and especially recommendations because they're trying to sell the trade in gun.
Speaker C:They're trying to sell the gun that they have in stock.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And it's really frustrating because when I get texts or whatever from friends, family all over the country, you know, asking what should I look at?
Speaker C:Give them a list.
Speaker C:And I write like, hey, if they tell you this gun, tell them no, thank you.
Speaker C:If they tell them they don't have it, go somewhere else, you know, put hands on all these guns, demo them if you can.
Speaker C:But it's so frustrating when they go in there and they're getting recommended something and I'm like, absolutely not.
Speaker C:You know, tell them no.
Speaker C:You have to have a voice in a gun shop.
Speaker C:And if you don't really Know what you're not asking or what to ask, then it can be really, really hard.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker A:And it's also knowing your body.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because, you know, if you have arthritis or you have things that make it hard for you to rack the slide, there are very few options.
Speaker A:You know, I EAA Makes a gun that's good for that.
Speaker A:Smith and Wesson makes a gun that's good for that.
Speaker A:But there are very few options in that space.
Speaker A:And, you know, if you are a widow or if you're someone who is having to protect yourself for the first time, knowing those things before you go in.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Is important.
Speaker A:Is important.
Speaker A:And so, you know, hopefully you're consuming content like this.
Speaker A:Hopefully you have a trusted person who knows firearms that has firearms for you to test out.
Speaker A:Hopefully your local range has demo guns and has a variety.
Speaker A:Because that's the other downside is not every range that has rentals has the right rental for you.
Speaker C:Options.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I wish there was, like, a score for gun shops.
Speaker B:I don't know about you, but, like, I will go in the score.
Speaker B:Well, I go in and I act dumb because.
Speaker B:Because I want to see if they actually know what they're talking about.
Speaker B:And there's been a lot that do.
Speaker B:My favorite.
Speaker C:That don't.
Speaker B:More.
Speaker B:That don't.
Speaker B:Yeah, my favorite one.
Speaker B:I was at a gun shop.
Speaker B:This was a long time ago.
Speaker B:I said a gun shop.
Speaker B:And I was standing there at the counter, and this girl walks up and she goes, oh, I need a gun for home defense.
Speaker B:And the guy behind the counter just saw, like, cha chings in his eyes.
Speaker B:And he goes, yeah, this.
Speaker B:500 Smith Wesson Magnum would be perfect for you.
Speaker B:And he turned around to go.
Speaker B:He's like, oh, I'm gonna go grab it.
Speaker B:I grabbed her.
Speaker B:I'm like, you need to leave now.
Speaker B:Like, this is not for you.
Speaker B:He's trying to upsell you.
Speaker B:I will take you.
Speaker B:There's a store down the street that knows a lot better.
Speaker B:Go talk to them.
Speaker B:And she's like, okay, thank you.
Speaker B:She left.
Speaker B:And the guy's like, oh, where did she go?
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, I don't know.
Speaker B:She got a phone call or something.
Speaker B:But to recommend something that ridiculous, so frustrating.
Speaker B:I mean, that's for if the bad guy's behind your neighbor's fridge.
Speaker B:But there are a lot of good shops out there who are really well educated, and there's a lot of shops that are still the.
Speaker B:The mentality that we talked about about the snub nose revolver and that And I think there are.
Speaker B:A lot of things have changed.
Speaker B:You know, Expert Voice has helped a lot for some of them.
Speaker B:A lot of the reps are now taking more time to go into stores and educate.
Speaker B:But you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:They're going to try to sell you what's sitting there because it's.
Speaker B:It's what they have.
Speaker C:They need to get that inventory.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, I mean, I really wish.
Speaker B:I really wish that there was, like, somebody who would go around.
Speaker B:I'm giving this idea to free to whoever wants to do this, but I wish there was a company that would go around and kind of rate these stores and give them a rating and go, hey, yeah, this is what, you know, the experience is like.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a lot of reviews and things like that, but yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And the best.
Speaker A:So they can't change what they don't know to change.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so it's important that if somebody really knocks it out of the park and is super helpful and asks the right questions, go review that store online and.
Speaker A:And shout out the good things.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because one, that's going to help the next person who's looking for a place.
Speaker A:But two, you know, people look at the reviews of.
Speaker A:Of their competitors.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And if they see.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:You know, they're really wanting these questions.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:There's a huge educational, you know, portion that we're missing out on.
Speaker A:And because we're missing out on it, we're losing business.
Speaker A:Like, the best place to start is right now with what you have.
Speaker A:And we have the ability to leave reviews that are positive, that bring out what is good so that they can expand what is good and so that others can mimic what is good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's why, too.
Speaker C:I don't know if we haven't touched on it, but, like, my women's event that I host, I was so frustrated with not having, like, demo days, like you're saying.
Speaker C:And there are more manufacturers now that are setting those demo days up at ranges all over the country.
Speaker C:But it's their brand, right?
Speaker C:One set of guns, which is great.
Speaker C:But I came up with the idea five years ago, and this year I will have probably 100 women at my event.
Speaker C:Now I'm at like 92.
Speaker C:But I was like, okay, I want a day where women can come out.
Speaker C:Only women.
Speaker C:Sorry, guys.
Speaker C:Everything's included.
Speaker C:Ammo, food.
Speaker C:You don't have to leave the range.
Speaker C:They get to go home with a prize.
Speaker C:I've got tons of guns I'm giving away, but I wanted them to Be able to come out and shoot every single type of firearm that I have that I own.
Speaker C:I bring all my personal guns.
Speaker C:I've got tne guns from companies and so and not just pistols too.
Speaker C:It's like you're talking about home defense gun.
Speaker C:Hey, that might be a CQB type rifle.
Speaker C:I have a whole suppressed bay because we haven't even gone into suppressors life.
Speaker C:But just touching on that is indoors.
Speaker C:If you have a defensive firearm, you're probably going to want to have suppressed or lose your hearing one of the two.
Speaker C:And even shotguns.
Speaker C:Like I just see so many females and men but like get taught wrong and they're like, I hate, I hate shotguns.
Speaker C:Like those are horrible, they kick.
Speaker C:And I'm like, you haven't actually learned how to shoot it because you can.
Speaker C:And so that's what you're talking about is why aren't we doing more community based things in our home area or home range and go to our local range.
Speaker C:Like hey, what if we did a one day event?
Speaker C:Doesn't have to be, you know, all included.
Speaker C:Maybe it's bring your own ammo, we'll set up all the guns and we just shoot for the day.
Speaker C:I just wish there was more opportunities for that.
Speaker B:I couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:I mean, as a person who has a spouse, I learned very quickly that I am not the one to train her.
Speaker B:I do not want to be that guy.
Speaker B:So I've taken her to classes to go learn.
Speaker B:I've taken her friends have gone out, I've tried to help where I can, but I'm still her spouse and you know, gets, I, you know how it is, you get, you get angry real quick.
Speaker A:I separate.
Speaker C:I used to my concealed carry classes, I had couples come in but I would always separate them and I'm like, hey, I don't care what you say after the class.
Speaker C:Maybe you want to go back to coaching her or give your own input, but you're paying for my time.
Speaker C:I'm going to separate you because I really need to speak to you.
Speaker C:I need to speak to you and talk about body types, weight, all of the different things, right?
Speaker C:But you're right because every female that I've like competed with or brought on, like my friend Crystal, and she's like, I don't want Ryan there.
Speaker C:I don't want Ryan to watch.
Speaker C:And I was like done.
Speaker C:Like, we'll put him off to a different squad.
Speaker C:We'll have our own squad, right?
Speaker C:And it's just less intimidating and it is really hard because even though, like, they know you probably have zero pressure, you're not like, expecting them to be the best shooter or whatever, that pressure still exists.
Speaker C:And you're still like, oh, I gotta, you know, be the best that I am.
Speaker C:Like, we all started somewhere, so spouses, couples, all of those.
Speaker C:My word of advice is separate yourselves or take two different classes.
Speaker A:But I. I love having places for communities to be built.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, we have G Ways empowered 2A, which is our women's coalition.
Speaker A:We just did our national range day in Texas.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right outside of Dallas.
Speaker A:I was like, what's the.
Speaker A:It was technically a great vibe.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Can Texas have enough events already?
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Like, leave some for the rest of it.
Speaker A:But that was like our, our big national.
Speaker A:But that we do state ones every year in.
Speaker A:In different states.
Speaker A:I believe we just, at the time of this podcast being being released, I think we will have just had our Virginia event.
Speaker A:But it's so exciting because what we see is a tremendous amount of first time shooters come to these events.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it is the great, the great saying that if you build it, they will come 100.
Speaker A:And so if you don't find the community that you want within the firearms community, build it 100.
Speaker C:That's what I did.
Speaker C:I am now that person's taken on the burden and now that'll be my fifth year.
Speaker C:I'm like, I can never go back.
Speaker C:It's like these women, I mean, they travel all over the country.
Speaker C:I've had some women attend every single event, some that have come to like three in the past.
Speaker C:And I'm like, even though it is the biggest undertaking in the whole entire world, to me, you got to do it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, just from our women's event, Kat Leahy, who's a great friend of ours from Global Ordinance, fantastic human being, she was like, this is different than any other range that I've been to.
Speaker B:This was more fulfilling.
Speaker B:She's so used to just like, here's my gun.
Speaker B:Go shoot it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Here's the features.
Speaker B:It was more of.
Speaker B:Here's my gun.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You first time.
Speaker B:Let's, let's walk through this.
Speaker B:Let's go through it.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:She called me afterwards and was like, this is the most fulfilling event I've ever been at.
Speaker B:Because again, Kelly said our women's event was just a bunch of new female shooters or a friend got dragged out.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It was a really good, no pressure, kind of go out and have fun event, which I loved.
Speaker A:And then the other thing that was fun at the national event.
Speaker A:And if you sign up for goals, you.
Speaker A:You can experience this again.
Speaker A:But we did a concealed carry fashion show because that's the missing puzzle piece that we found from doing these events is that they.
Speaker A:Some women want to carry, but it's intimidating.
Speaker A:Or they want to carry, but they're not really sure how or what to pick or how to pick it.
Speaker A:And so we did a whole fashion show.
Speaker A:Somehow I got roped.
Speaker A:Michelle did too.
Speaker C:She told me this.
Speaker A:Actually walking on the fashion show, which, by the way, was not part of my plan going into this.
Speaker A:But you do what you gotta do for the cause.
Speaker B:I planned that.
Speaker C:John, why aren't you a model?
Speaker B:Well, you know, poor Alex Quinn, who works behind the scenes, who's sitting right over here, had to get roped in the fashion show.
Speaker B:She was nervous and I was like, hey, I'll go in.
Speaker B:And everyone's like, nobody wants to see that.
Speaker A:But it was fun.
Speaker A:It was fun.
Speaker A:It was exciting.
Speaker A:Everyone kind of wore what they were wearing during the fashion show for a little bit after so that women could actually come up and ask questions about how you were carrying, what you were carrying.
Speaker A:And it was just a great way to, again, lower that barrier to entry.
Speaker A:So much of what we do on this podcast and what we do at Goa is trying to figure out the best way to build the best on ramp for people to get involved with the second amendment.
Speaker A:And part of that means that you have to take the blinders off and you have to go, okay, well, what are the real questions?
Speaker A:You know, what is the Google machine telling us are the real questions?
Speaker A:And then doing your best to meet those questions, and when you can do that in a live environment like an event, it's so valuable.
Speaker A:And I love that you have done your event and you've done it for five years and you've got all of those different options because not everyone is going to fall in love with shotguns.
Speaker A:Not everyone is going to fall in love with rifles or pistols or revolvers.
Speaker A:I mean, like, there's something for everyone, and it's about your comfort level and your decision.
Speaker A:And we just want you to be confident in that choice.
Speaker C:And a lot of the things that get taken away from, I would say anybody, including me, it's happened before at events or demos or whatever, is not allowing them to clear a malfunction, not allowing them to load their own gun, not.
Speaker C:I mean, it's.
Speaker C:I could preach on this because I tell all of the ladies there, like, I have great ros.
Speaker C:They're grandmaster Level shooters or re instructors.
Speaker C:They're just amazing people.
Speaker C:And I'm like, hey, you make them load it, you make them unload it.
Speaker C:You make them clear that malfunction.
Speaker C:Maybe you show them once, but if it happens again, like, hey, this is what we're gonna do.
Speaker C:And so every time I teach and what have you, I'm like, big girl time.
Speaker C:You know, you're gonna figure it out.
Speaker C:Because if you go home and you're like, I don't know how to unload this.
Speaker C:I don't know how to check if it's gonna clear.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:I don't even know how to clean or disassemble my gun.
Speaker C:I'm like, guess what?
Speaker C:Especially when the couples come, I'm like, he's not here for you.
Speaker C:Figure it out.
Speaker C:And, like, take it apart, put it back together 10 times.
Speaker C:And so, like, that's where I just, like, I preach on that, because you have to.
Speaker C:It's you alone, by yourself.
Speaker C:Even if you have a spouse or what have you, it's like, you got to be able to fend for yourself.
Speaker C:100.
Speaker B:Well, speaking of the fashion show, I want to give a shout out to real quick to all the sponsors of the fashion show.
Speaker B:So I want to thank, you know, Vertex, Rugged, Rare, Antonio, Alexia.
Speaker B:Sorry, that's a tongue twister to me.
Speaker B:And Victos for all having great concealed carry options for women.
Speaker B:But also, like you said, you know, having them clear the malfunction.
Speaker B:I make my wife clear her malfunctions because, you know, she's got to learn.
Speaker B:The proudest moment I've ever had at the ranch with her was we went out and she with his.
Speaker B:So me and my friends, we go out.
Speaker B:She watches us do target transitions and mags, changes and everything.
Speaker B:And she walked up there and just did it herself.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so proud of you.
Speaker B:Like, this is a problem.
Speaker B:It's a huge win.
Speaker B:So she was able to.
Speaker B:She did a mag change, engaged multiple targets.
Speaker B:I'm like, where'd you learn that?
Speaker B:She's like, I just been watching you.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, cool, let's do it again.
Speaker B:Let's try this.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker B:And then she's like, you're putting too much pressure on me.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm going to walk away.
Speaker B:You go have fun.
Speaker B:So, no, it's a great way because again, a lot of spouses or even instructors don't walk through it.
Speaker B:It's just kind of like, hey, here.
Speaker B:Oh, you have a malfunction.
Speaker B:I'M just going to come over here and do it real quick.
Speaker C:Raise your hand and I will come.
Speaker C:Yeah, come to you.
Speaker B:But it shows a lot that, you know, you have to teach them everything.
Speaker B:You can't just do it for them because just like kids, you can't do everything for them.
Speaker A:They have to learn and training doesn't always have to happen on the range.
Speaker A:And, you know, there are products, you know, like Mantis that, that have the ability for you to, to training and get feedback without having to go to the range.
Speaker A:And maybe that's all you have time for.
Speaker A:Maybe you work, you know, crazy hours and the range isn't available to you all of the time.
Speaker A:Maybe you're on a tight budget and ammo is expensive.
Speaker C:100%.
Speaker C:I dry fire with the Unit Solutions rifle.
Speaker C:I shoot blanks, but I still get dot movement.
Speaker C:But I am with you, sister.
Speaker C:Let's dry fire and let's do like, blanks or airsoft cheap.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:But it's again, you know, some people might not even know those things exist.
Speaker A:And so we want to kind of bring to light, like, hey, you know, we may be in the firearms industry.
Speaker A:We're a little bit different.
Speaker A:We're in the nonprofit side.
Speaker A:So, like, we don't shoot as much as people that are, you know, able to, to, you know, test fire for a living.
Speaker A:Like, you're, you're going to, you're going to shoot more than like, right.
Speaker A:Like, there are, there's so many different levels, even within the industry of people that get to, to shoot regularly.
Speaker A:But that doesn't negate the personal responsibility of training.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And the more that we are able to train in whatever capacity that looks like for you is so valuable.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So I. John's LAUGHING I was born and raised in lower Alabama, which is Florida, Pensacola.
Speaker C:But I went over to Alabama and I remember going to indoor range before actually a GSF match just to sight in, check my gun, right?
Speaker C:And they were like, when you see your permit.
Speaker C:And I was like, what is my permit for?
Speaker C:And they're like, well, we need to prove that you can shoot.
Speaker C:And I was like, hold the phone.
Speaker C:You think this little plastic piece says, I know how to shoot?
Speaker C:Because I can guarantee you it doesn't.
Speaker C:Well, in Alabama, too, you don't take a class.
Speaker C:You just go to the office, get your concealed carry permit and leave.
Speaker C:And I'm like, so it's just really frustrating when I think about, like, I don't want more legislature at all when it comes to firearm, like, management or like, you have to have a permit or whatever.
Speaker C:I think the whole country should.
Speaker C:It's all the same land.
Speaker C:Okay, we should be free.
Speaker C:But I wish people would be like, I'm going to buy a gun or I'm going to carry a gun.
Speaker C:Maybe I should put a few hundred thousand rounds.
Speaker C:Not really, but few thousand rounds down range.
Speaker C:Maybe I need to take a class that's more than just a weekend.
Speaker C:Maybe I need to continue my education.
Speaker C:It is so frustrating that, like we have a license to drive, which is a privilege, and then we practice driving.
Speaker C:Why don't we do that with our firearm?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh my gosh.
Speaker B:Well, that's.
Speaker B:That's a huge tool.
Speaker B:That's what makes me frustrated.
Speaker B:A lot of people get the.
Speaker B:Take the eight hour concealed care class or the six out, wherever you're staying.
Speaker B:You fire like 10, 5, 10 rounds just to show that you can hit a target.
Speaker B:And half the time it's not even to show that you can hit a target half the time.
Speaker B:It's just to show that you can fire a gun.
Speaker C:I have a story for you about that.
Speaker B:And it drives me nuts that most people will take that class and think they're ready to go right there.
Speaker A:Well, I think that that right there is the issue with any sort of government mandated minimum.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker C:So there's.
Speaker C:Sorry to interrupt.
Speaker C:So I'm really passionate about some of this.
Speaker C:Florida.
Speaker C:When I taught in Florida, the statute said that you have to live fire in front of a certified instructor, whether it was nra, law enforcement, military.
Speaker C:So no joke, they would do like a hotel, I don't know, conference center, and have 100 students for two instructors.
Speaker C:The instructor, this happened to my friend, one loaded a.22 revolver, single action, would cock it for them, hand it, shoot it into a water bucket, shoot it into a wall.
Speaker C:And that was the shooting portion that was required to check the box on the Florida statute.
Speaker C:That is bullshit.
Speaker C:Like, that instructor too should be liable for whatever that person does in their future.
Speaker C:So that's what frustrates me.
Speaker C:We're talking about government stuff because there's also, I won't say loopholes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But there is people that are playing the game to get money or get.
Speaker B:Paid well, and that was.
Speaker B:No, I taught concealed carry in Ohio for three years, four years.
Speaker B:Whatever it was, it was the same thing.
Speaker B:Our class, we had 30 students and then they would have to fire.
Speaker B:They started off on a.22 revolver and then we would move them to that.
Speaker B:We had a table full of guns.
Speaker B:They could pick what, nine mil they wanted to shoot.
Speaker B:And they'd shoot 10 rounds of nine miles.
Speaker B:And it was just to make sure they were competent enough to hit a target, not even with their own gun.
Speaker B:And then take that back.
Speaker B:And that was it.
Speaker B:Like I, it frustrates me that it's, it's a minimum requirement for a reason.
Speaker B:It's the bare minimum you can do.
Speaker B:And I always encourage people after my classes, we'd have other classes you could take like, hey, we've got discount for the, we've got a basic pistol class.
Speaker B:Or hey, we've got this pistol 101 class.
Speaker B:This is going to teach you how to draw from your holster or this is going to teach you how to do that.
Speaker B:And even those classes, yes, they were fantastic.
Speaker B:But it was, it was basic, but it was also like, it's got to be an outside the waistband holster.
Speaker B:It can't be an inside the waistband holster.
Speaker B:You can't practice with what you're going to, how you're going to carry.
Speaker B:So when I, after I was done with that, I started taking classes from a good friend of mine and a good friend of Goa, Fred Masterson.
Speaker B:Great guy.
Speaker C:That's awesome with him.
Speaker B:Yes, Fred.
Speaker B:Fred is amazing human.
Speaker B:So I've taken Fred's pistol class.
Speaker B:I've taken his CQB class.
Speaker B:I've taken his vehicle tactics class, which if you haven't taken a vehicle tactics highly recommend.
Speaker B:I took his long range precision class which was fun.
Speaker B:But just even in his basic pistol class, like he starts off and I, I applaud instructors who start off this way is he starts off like you know nothing.
Speaker B:And that's the, that's why I love, I always love teaching women because they have no preconceived notions.
Speaker B:They don't have an ego.
Speaker B:And I hated teaching guys sometimes because they're like, well, you're wrong, I know more than you.
Speaker B:But I always go into a class and I go, I know nothing.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm going to start from nothing.
Speaker B:I'm going to know nothing.
Speaker B:And if you Classes can be expensive.
Speaker B:Fred's classes, if you're in Ohio, he normally teaches in Ohio.
Speaker B:He used to teach in Arizona.
Speaker B:He doesn't teach in Arizona anymore.
Speaker B:Fred, please teach more classes in Arizona if you're listening.
Speaker B:But he starts off at nothing and then you work your way up.
Speaker B:And I've seen there was a lot of new shooters in those classes.
Speaker B:There was a lot of people who first time dot people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's a classic learning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a whole different, that's a whole different job.
Speaker B:But I highly recommend go take those classes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Training can be expensive.
Speaker B:His, his is aren't.
Speaker B:His aren't bad.
Speaker B:But it's worth it to take like taking a vehicle tactics class.
Speaker B:You know, you're, we've seen, you know, hordes of people stopping streets.
Speaker B:There's the Golden Gate Bridge as of today of this thing is being blocked off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, and you spend a lot of.
Speaker C:Time in your car.
Speaker B:You spend a ton of time.
Speaker B:So learning how to draw from when you're seated in your car, learning what a projectile does when it hits a windshield.
Speaker B:That's a whole different game to learn.
Speaker B:And I highly recommend people take these classes because like the state minimum shouldn't be first off, it shouldn't be a minimum.
Speaker B:It's a constitutional guaranteed right.
Speaker B:But you need to go out and.
Speaker C:Learn 100% and continue.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The best thing that we can do as a country is encourage the second amendment and the personal responsibility that it mandates.
Speaker A:And the reason that I put it like that is, you know, when you are in control of your firearm, if you, when you have your firearm, when you purchase it, you are personally responsible for everything that happens with that gun.
Speaker A:And that's a very big decision.
Speaker A:And that's why I love seeing people go from on the fence to first time gun owners.
Speaker A:Because that's such a big decision.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And what happens is when government gets in the way, they set up what they consider to be, you know, whatever level that they decide.
Speaker A:And it gives a false sense of.
Speaker A:How do I want to put this?
Speaker A:I guess it gives a false sense of I've achieved everything I need to achieve.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And what we're seeing with constitutional carry states is the exact opposite.
Speaker A:People are going and they're getting training and then they go and they get more training and more training because guess what?
Speaker A:We are rational people.
Speaker A:And when we know that we are defending ourselves and we know the responsibility that we're carrying and we're solely responsible for taking that education into our own hands because we don't need a permission slip from the government all of the sudden it opens up a different, it opens up more opportunity for us and we feel like there's more opportunity for us to learn.
Speaker A:And that's when you also start getting the diversity of classes.
Speaker A:Was not that long ago in my local range, the only class they offered was the concealed carry permit.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, you're only going to take that once.
Speaker C:Once.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Let's be honest.
Speaker A:But since constitutional carry was passed now all of a sudden for the first time, I have the opportunity to go take a pistol one, a pistol two class.
Speaker A:I have the ability to take a open carry, concealed carry class where they kind of go over the pros and cons and how we react and the, the different things that you might not think about.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But that wasn't even on the table before we got constitutional carry.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And so a lot of it is, you know, we always hear the term food deserts.
Speaker A:There's also training deserts where there's just not an opportunity to receive quality further instruction.
Speaker C:Which on the competition side of stuff, I would say we're changing that dynamic.
Speaker C:So, I mean, you think of high level shooters like JJ Racaza, Christian Thaylor's done some classes.
Speaker C:Mason Lane, Travis Tomasi.
Speaker C:I could go into an entire, like, dump, Right.
Speaker C:And there are more.
Speaker C:Tim Heron, Brendan Bernanke.
Speaker C:I want to name all these great people, but if anyone just asked me, like, hey, where should I go?
Speaker C:It's like, hey, actually if you propose to have a class, these instructors will bring guns and fly to you.
Speaker C:Or you have your own, right.
Speaker C:And they'll set up a curriculum.
Speaker C:You could do a private class with maybe eight to 10 people.
Speaker C:You split that cost, right?
Speaker C:And then it's an amazing immersive weekend where it used to be, where like you would have to travel to the instructor or there really wasn't a lot of instructors traveling.
Speaker C:Now they are like Fred does, right?
Speaker C:All over the country you can have someone come to you.
Speaker C:And so we've set some of those up before in the past where I'm actually taking a class that I set up from the AMU to learn three gun.
Speaker C:We went to Alabama to have the Travis class and we had like 10 friends that shoot competition sign up.
Speaker C:But it's not just for competitions.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But I think there are more excuses for people.
Speaker C:Like, there's no training near me.
Speaker C:Like, same thing, bring it, build it, and they will come.
Speaker C:And those instructors exist.
Speaker B:Well, there's a lot of great instructors out there.
Speaker B:There's a lot of bad instructors out there.
Speaker B:And I know because I've been in.
Speaker B:I took the class to get in my instructor certificate and I've seen some of them.
Speaker B:I would, I would listen.
Speaker B:You don't.
Speaker C:No, I've been there.
Speaker B:Been there, yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But that's where a lot of people have a bad experience with an instructor because it's a bad instructor.
Speaker B:It's not anything to do with the training.
Speaker B:I highly recommend, you know, you do your research, you talk to people, you reach out to people who've done classes.
Speaker B:You don't always have to spend the, how do I put it, the tens of thousands of dollars or whatever to go to like a gun site or a, or a thunder ranch, which highly recommend both of those.
Speaker B:They are amazing.
Speaker B:But there are some really like Fred's an example of a good instructor that, you know, you may not have heard his name on or even there's a lot of great instructors in your local area.
Speaker B:But, but like you said, a lot of ranges and stuff are starting to see the need to offer more training because of constitutional carry, because they're not getting the same amount of people that they would get into a concealed carry class.
Speaker B:They need to offer another option and expand and, and you meet friends even.
Speaker A:If you go alone.
Speaker A:And, and sometimes people are like, well, I don't want to take a class alone.
Speaker A:Maybe you don't have the, the 10 friends to build a class, but if you go to a class, you will find 10 friends.
Speaker C:And let me give a disclaimer out there, guys, when you talk about instructors and vetting them, hear me out, guys.
Speaker C:The NRA credential of an instructor means absolute jack.
Speaker C:So I'm sorry to dump that on here, but that piece of paper means absolutely nothing.
Speaker B:They took the bare minimum to get.
Speaker C:The certificate and half their criteria or their education or curriculum and that's in there is incorrect.
Speaker C:I won't go into it, but I know that because I have it and I am not proud to have it, but I have to have it because I'm not military, law enforcement, whatever.
Speaker C:I don't meet those criteria.
Speaker C:But anyways, vet your instructors, meaning if they are a competitive shooter, there's practicescore.com you can look up their ranking, how they finish, what matches they go to.
Speaker C:Ask them, how many rounds do you shoot a year?
Speaker C:Like 50, no, 5,000 or whatever to.
Speaker A:The new instructors that are just starting out that maybe you, you did and you, you got your certificate and you are nervous because you don't have, you know, a, a huge portfolio, let's say portfolio, and you don't have, you know, rankings or, or things or reviews.
Speaker A:Find a mentor.
Speaker A:The firearms community is full of fabulous mental mentors that, that don't view an outside of competition shooting, don't view you as competition.
Speaker A:We just want more and more amazing shooters to join the community.
Speaker A:And finding a mentor and building up that way is a fantastic way to learn where the pitfalls are in classes before you even have the ability to have a mess up or to, to go down and to.
Speaker A:Well, you are a crap instructor, right?
Speaker A:Like take other people's classes, find other personalities, figure out what personalities you train best with, and maybe you become a boutique trainer right there.
Speaker A:There's not a one size fits all, but there is also infinite room to grow.
Speaker A:You might not be the best trainer in the world year one.
Speaker A:In fact, I can guarantee you're not going to be the best instructor year one.
Speaker A:But what about year five, year 10, year 40?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you have to set yourself up for that success.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And I will give a shout out to a good friend of mine who's in Ohio, Gun set training out of Dayton, Ohio.
Speaker B:He is a good instructor.
Speaker B:He's not.
Speaker B:But I've seen him take 13, 14 classes.
Speaker B:He is constantly going to classes and taking.
Speaker B:Okay, well, I learned this little trick in this class I'm going to put in my class and I'm going to.
Speaker B:I took this little trick from this class, I put it.
Speaker B:And now taking the best you could find somebody local who's not that expensive, but have been to all these classes and get the same experience as you would at a big.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Level training level.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then that's the thing of instructors, too, is you just need to be able to perform.
Speaker C:It doesn't need to be like any grandmaster level or competition.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But can you perform the drill you're asking your students to do and can you do it on command?
Speaker C:And you know, it's not gonna be perfect 10 times out of 10, but can you actually consistently shoot?
Speaker C:I mean, that speaks volume.
Speaker C:So if you're not dry firing, if you're not live firing, if you're not putting in the work, too, to actually demonstrate what you're teaching, that's a little bit of a red flag for you.
Speaker A:That's one of the things that I really love to see when I take a class is for them to demonstrate before they instruct it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like, that's not standard.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I don't know why, but it really,.
Speaker A:Like, it immediately endears and endears me to them and it immediately increases my trust.
Speaker A:Is just that simple.
Speaker C:Like, oh, they can do the thing.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, you're practicing what you're preaching.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Frank Proctor does that.
Speaker C:I don't know if you.
Speaker C:I took one of his classes last year and it was amazing.
Speaker C:Every single drill.
Speaker C:I mean, every single one.
Speaker C:He did it first.
Speaker C:Every single one did it first here.
Speaker C:I'm like, okay, got it.
Speaker A:We were sponsoring the copper ticket event that Fort Scott Munitions did.
Speaker A:And it was a lottery system.
Speaker A:So the winners, like I think there was five winners and they got to go.
Speaker A:And some content creators got to go out and train under Chris Tonto.
Speaker A:I wasn't, we were sponsoring it.
Speaker A:So like I was working a table.
Speaker A:But anytime the instruction, I found myself the best viewing point and I was just like, I will drink all of the information in.
Speaker A:Because, you know, Chris was just phenomenal and you know, he demoed everything and then, you know, he was, he was fun and engaging and I was just like, oh yeah, over there with my little notepad, like, okay, well I'm about to be a better shooter.
Speaker A:Even though I didn't take the class, I got to be in the presence and see and then watch everyone improve.
Speaker A:And that was, that was so great.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And we live in the best time in the entire world where people are putting out Instagram content, YouTube content, and just like anything else, gun stores instructors, like, there's gonna be really bad ones and there's gonna be really good ones.
Speaker C:And we've seen that.
Speaker C:But you know, it's so accessible in terms of what people are doing, how they're training, what sort of drills to run.
Speaker C:So like that's what I love too is a lot of, a lot of content is just gonna be very helpful.
Speaker B:Well, we are getting the wrap up single signal from our.
Speaker B:We probably could have talked for another hour, but we got another wrap up single signal.
Speaker B:So let's go ahead and wrap this up.
Speaker B:Kenzie, where can people find you?
Speaker C:Three gunkens.
Speaker C:So number three.com and then on Instagram, same thing, three gunkensie.
Speaker C:That's kind of what I go by now.
Speaker C:And in terms of like events classes, you know, if people reach out, whether you DM or on my website, you know, I do set up private classes where I actually teach people how to draw from concealment, how to move and shoot.
Speaker C:They want to do a competition level course.
Speaker C:Like I'm not the best shooter out there, but I know so many different disciplines that it's just really fun for me to teach.
Speaker C:Not just pistol, but rifle, shotgun.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:So, yeah.
Speaker C:Thank you guys for having me and letting me like be very passionate about some of this stuff.
Speaker B:Well, I appreciate it.
Speaker B:This was a fantastic conversation.
Speaker B:We didn't even get into some of the topics who I talked about.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Fantastic.
Speaker A:Well, if you want her to come back, comment below or message us because if you're listening, I just realized if you listen on Spotify, you can't comment.
Speaker A:So there.
Speaker A:You know what though, you can go on Geo a's website and send in a comment and say we want Kenzie back and we will respond to you, we promise.
Speaker B:Or go to State of the second on Instagram or State of the second with the letter two on X or Twitter.
Speaker C:I'm like such a millennial now moving.
Speaker B:Or go to our YouTube channel and leave a comment there too.
Speaker B:If you're watching or listening to this on Spotify, go to there and leave a comment.
Speaker B:Let us know.
Speaker B:So that being said, make sure to like, share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification on YouTube.
Speaker B:Leave a five star review on all podcasting apps.
Speaker B:Make sure to go to Goals gunowners.
Speaker B:Org to get registered for the Convention in Knoxville August 17th and 18th of this year.
Speaker B:And thank you and have a great rest of your day.
