⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses abuse, violence, which some listeners may find distressing.

If you need support, you're not alone — help is available:

• Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au

Dr Heena Cheung survived childhood sexual abuse from age 13, followed by repeated abuse in college. At 27, she migrated from India to Australia, initially working low-wage jobs while pursuing a Master's in Public Health. A mental health crisis in 2017 involving anorexia became a turning point when Tony Robbins' phrase 'life doesn't happen to you, it happens for you' reframed her trauma. She has since founded My Second Home, an NDIS housing provider; co-founded Simple AI for aged care technology; established My Safe Circle to support abuse survivors; and ran as an independent Senate candidate in 2025, breaking voting records for independents in Victoria. Today, she advocates across disability rights, migrant women's legal protections, childhood sexual abuse prevention, access to justice for First Nations communities, and climate action, driven by the conviction that her past does not define her future.

Dr Heena Cheung is a childhood sexual abuse survivor, public health advocate, and independent Senate candidate in Victoria who has channeled her lived experience into multifaceted community work spanning disability rights, migrant women's advocacy, justice reform, and climate action.

In this Grit Diaries conversation with Mon & Mazz, Dr shares the story behind the moments below.

🎙️ IN THIS CONVERSATION:

• Trauma does not define your future-your present actions and choices determine who you become and what impact you create.

🕒 CHAPTERS:

00:00 Welcome and Episode Overview

02:03 Dr Heena Cheung Introduction and Content Warning

07:00 From Dentistry to Public Health: Finding True Purpose

09:12 Family Pressure, Sisterhood, and Migration to Australia

16:39 Kintsugi Principle: Reframing Trauma as Strength

19:27 Statistics, Underreporting, and the Definition of Abuse

22:50 Access to Justice: First Nations, Migrant Women, and Global Rights

25:06 Protect Our Children Jail Not Bail: Changing Suppression Laws

28:34 Neuroscience of Trauma: Why Healing Opens Horizons

30:18 Pearls of Wisdom: Small Actions, Big Change

35:34 Closing Message: Non-Judgment and Compassion

37:22 Farewell and Episode Close

🎧 If this story moved you, follow Kintsugi Heroes in your podcast app so you never miss an episode.

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welcome to the grit diaries with mon and maz a place where we show real stories meets real transformation each episode we share the journeys of everyday people who's faced life's hardest moments and found their way to hope healing and purpose may their courage inspire you and in the world around you let's get inspired

Hey, Maz, I'm really excited. We've got Dr. Hina Chung today. She has taken really her pain into moving it into her purpose. She was a child of sexual abuse and is now moving into a beautiful state of way beyond surviving, thriving and committing and being involved in so many social impact organizations to really support migrants in Australia, but also those that are disadvantaged. I love the fact she's much more of a doer than a mooer, and she's really moved in so many different directions.

Oh, she's an absolute powerhouse. I mean, it was a case of what doesn't she do? And, you know, she does it with purpose, with meaning, with intention, with authenticity. And for any of you out there that have thought about, you know, what can I do about my situation to make some sense of meaning out of it and do good out in the community, I really urge you all to listen in. She's an incredible and beautiful soul. So please listen in to Dr. Hina Chung's conversation with us today on The Great Diaries.

Welcome to The Grit Diaries. Here we are again for another fabulous episode with Mon and Maz. Hey Mon. Hey Maz, lovely to see you again. We're so fortunate and today again is no exception. All these incredible people that we are absolutely privileged to sit down in conversation and spend time with for our beautiful audience, you know, around the globe really. We're so fortunate and today we have the incredible Dr. Heena Chung. Welcome Heena.

Thank you so much for having me. It's a great pleasure to be here and talking to you, Mon and Maz, today. How lucky are we, Mon? I've just heard that, Hina, you've just come back from New York, for goodness sake, and we really want to hear about the reasons why you were there. Really important to this conversation. But for now, I'll hand over to you, Mon.

Before we start though, Maz, there may be some information in this that will cause some to feel triggered slightly. And so it's important that you know that there's so much help in this country now. And there's a 1-800 number by full stop. I'll read it out. Just write it down if you feel that you'll need it. It's 1-800-424-017. And it's

It's a helpline 24-7 for anybody that might have been triggered and have feelings around abuse in childhood that has not been okay. So I'm going to introduce Dr. Hina Chung and I have the pleasure of introducing you. I cannot believe how much you do in your life. So you're the founder of My Second Home, which is an NDIS provider.

to provide housing support short and long term for people with disabilities. You run a company as well called or part of a company called Simple AI that's supporting aged care providers with getting up to speed with what they need to know around AI and technology. You have a real focus, and this is, as you say, your heart.

is around this concept of my safe circle, which is embracing the support of lived experience for people that might have suffered childhood sexual abuse. We'll hear more about that soon. But not only that, Dr. Hina Chung, you decided to throw yourself into being an independent Senate candidate in the 2025 federal election. And I believe in Victoria, you broke the record for

number of votes for an independent we'll hear more about that in a moment and you're also on the communities council for ethnic issues which you give so much service and on top of that you are very much an advocate for jail not bail we want to hear all about you and we might start with asking you a question firstly welcome we'd like to hear a little bit about your backstory because you give so much to the community in so many different ways we want to hear what propels that

Firstly, thank you so much for having me. Really excited to be here today. My journey, I think the reason why I do so much in the community is because I feel I'm in a position right now with all my healing that this is the time to give back to the community and protect the most vulnerable people. I have been a childhood sexual abuse survivor myself. I was abused from the age of 13 years old

And then came out of it and then, you know, unfortunately attracted another abuser when I was in college. So it's been a long journey for me from the age of 13 to 27 when I actually left my home country and moved abroad.

to Australia. And I worked through my education first, because if I wanted to give back to the community, I needed to learn how to be in these settings, how to advocate. And after my formal master's in public health and health communications, I stepped into different roles and learn different perspectives. And now I am advocating for prevention of child sexual abuse, migrant women rights,

and also working on tighter legislation when it comes to repercussions for abusers. So I think everything I do right now is probably because of what I've been through. When I felt alone, when I felt there was nobody there fighting for me, I decided that I'm going to change that and I'm going to be the voice for the survivors who are probably still thinking that nobody's going to trust them.

So everything I do, everything I do in the community, even going to the United Nations as a delegate for this year's team, which was access to justice for all women and girls, I've realized that globally, you know, women have 40% less legal rights compared to men.

And all of that just comes together. I'm sitting at a place where I feel I'm in a position where I can share this lived experience of mine to encourage other survivors to go ahead and just go for whatever you want to do, whatever you want to be, because there's at least one person, you know, who has been through and can do this. So I'm sure you can do it too.

Not only, though, did you study public health, I believe you studied dentistry. So was that in your birth country, India, and then you moved to Australia and continued further education here? Is that right? That's correct. So I did my dentistry back home in India. And I don't know whether it was the rural regions where I was working in and the

oral hygiene of people wasn't that great. And I just kind of, you know, when you have that moment, when you have that feeling inside your head and heart that, you know, this is probably not the direction you want to continue to grow in. So that was the time when I decided that I wanted to do public health

and diversify what I do. And instead of helping 100 people in my life or 200 people in my life, I want to help millions. And that's what public health was all about, helping millions of people with the smallest of things that you can do. It's one thing to maybe intuitively know that this isn't necessarily the thing that's going to float your boat for the rest of your career. It's an entirely different thing to actually follow that thread and do something about it. So would you say, Hina, that

when you look back in your younger years that there was that bit of tenacity. Can you sort of thread that back or is that something that just evolved over time? Yeah, I also want to know, were you just one child or did you have any siblings?

Yes. So thank you. That's actually a really good question. And I knew since I was growing up and going through the abuse that I wanted to be a powerful woman who can advocate for other people who are vulnerable. So being a dentist was something which was more sort of like a family thing because, you know, everybody in India wants girls to be doctor or lawyer or engineer. Like that's just if you're not a doctor, if you're not an engineer or lawyer, then you probably haven't done anything in your life.

I always had that desire to work with people. But social work is not a career back in India. So even wanting to choose something like that, I wasn't allowed to. So I followed what I was told until the time I was like, OK, now I've got you a doctorate degree. You know, you can boast to everybody.

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I've got that now, you know, you can tell in the family and to everybody that I'm a doctor, but now is the time that I choose what I want to truly focus on and truly do. Because I still remember when I was a child and I was watching at an interview by Dr. Kiran Bedi, and she's a fierce advocate for women's right back in India. She was

held different positions as a governor general, etc. I just had that feeling that I want to become somebody like her, like, you know, who is not afraid of speaking her truth, who's not afraid of fighting for other people's rights. And that's why I decided to move to public health. It was hard to move to a new country and also not know anybody when I first came here. And

everybody's first jobs when they first move is like you know working in a restaurant or you know working in crust pizzas so I went through all of that but what kept me going was I know where I ultimately wanted to be what contribution I wanted to leave behind for this world and that kept me going even in the difficult times and I have a sibling as well I have a younger sibling my sister

unfortunately she also went through the same abuse that i went through by the same person and i'm so happy and proud that you know she's also in australia now she's getting married so it has been a journey for her as well we held each other very close during that time and despite of

All the manipulation, all the gaslighting that we could have possibly went through. We stuck with each other and we are very, very close. And obviously, I'm the maid of honor for her wedding. So, yeah, it's when I look back at it, sometimes I still feel like I would have never thought as a little girl of marriage.

you know being where I am but on the other hand I also know that I envisioned it I'm a very visual person so if I want to be somewhere I would dream and visualize about getting my name on the ballot paper and then I did it so it's a great feeling to be able to pursue what you really want to and it's not easy because entering politics as a mom of young kids it's a lot of like things going on

But I have a supportive family and very great friends. So that keeps me going. It's lovely that you do have a supportive family and that you've chosen that type of environment around you after what you've gone through. And I would imagine how old are your children? It would have been, you know, 2025 election would have been a lot of time, right? I admire people so much that put their hand up to go into politics because it is 24-7, isn't it? It's relentless. Yeah.

Absolutely. My kids, I have two children. I have a daughter, Nova, she's seven years old, and my son, Orion, is five years old. And the 2025 elections was a true test for us as a family unit because until that time, I was still volunteering in the community. I was still doing a lot of work in the community. But election and campaigning is completely different level.

I remember I had to miss on a family vacation and they all went to Vietnam and I was over here because that was the time when I was doing the final submissions to the AEC. And then there was the Senate sequence of where your name comes on the ballot. So all of that was going on while my kids and husband were away on a family vacation, which we were meant to go together. So it was hard, but I think...

It is, but I truly believe that that is shaping my kids' thought process around sometimes we do have to sacrifice certain things for what our true purpose is. And I can see that in my daughter. I can see that in my son, that now when I have to go away for a conference or when I have to go away for an event, whether it's like two weeks or it's two nights, they always tell me before I go that, go, mommy, go change the world. So...

You know, I really want to just highlight here too because I don't want to smooth over it and there'll be a lot of people listening that have a shared experience and with childhood trauma, child sexual abuse, and not everybody chooses to go out and advocate to do all the work that you have done.

I think it's really interesting to note, and this is similar to myself, I'm sure you've probably got a similar journey, which has kind of sparked your journey as an adult woman. Hina, you mentioned that it was one of the advocates, one of the women advocates,

who was big in politics in your, and that was a thing that you can recall in this moment that was your spark of inspiration. Little did you know that you would go on the journey that you did as a young teenager with the abuse. That, I know for me, my spark in my young years was the hero's journey about consuming

just information about people going from rock bottom to really creating some incredible things a lot of faith-based magical sort of moments that actually led them to create what they did and I can see that playing out my childhood experience is very similar to yours and I know that that for me has been my desire to really help people to motivate people to inspire people in that sense

You have taken up the mantle of leadership, being in places and spaces that you can change policy and really advocate. And now your children are just going, go mum. So, yeah, I think it's really important for anyone that's going through whatever they're going through or they've had an experience in their younger years. It's been traumatic. Sometimes looking back to what was happening almost before that.

And what was those little sparks within you? What inspired you? What, you know, something that you saw on the TV back in the day or read or, you know, whatever it happens to be, or a mentor that you had in your life that really inspired you. Maybe sometimes putting those pieces of the puzzle together and where that kind of lands for you in this sort of adult journey that we live. So I really appreciate you sharing that for me. I resonate with it in a different way, but I can see those threads as well. Thank you so much.

I also wanted to highlight that one person who truly changed my life. I've only met that person once in my lifetime, but she is a famous inspirational coach, Tony Robbins. And back in 2017, I was really struggling with my mental health. I was anorexic. I couldn't eat food. It was almost like my small interaction with my abuser triggered something in me where I

my body was just rejecting food I just could not eat like I would eat two spoons and I'm done but through those you know one and a half year I feel like all the motivation that I got from Tony Robbins just through listening his story like of his abuse when he was a child and he told this one sentence which really was like oh yeah that's right and that was like life doesn't happen

to you it happens for you and it changed my perspective that i can either sit in this as in a shell and constantly keep wondering or keep complaining that why did this happen to me why did this happen to me

But when I opened my horizons and started looking more further away, I realized that I'm not the only person this happened to. It happens to one in four children in Australia. In global numbers, one in three girls and one in five boys are sexually abused.

So when I was able to separate myself from that, and that one sentence from Tony Robbins actually made me change my perspective that whatever experiences I've had, it was horrible. And it was something that I would not wish for any child or any human being to go through. However, I need to take these experiences, put it inside of me. It's a little bit like the Kintsugi stories, like, you know, when the plate breaks, how you put the gold pieces and you put them together. And it's more beautiful.

more beautiful. That helped me to change my perspective and start working towards first on myself of how do I improve my mental health? How do I improve my health? And then once I reached there slowly started advocating in different places and different areas.

I think what you've just said is something that resonates with many of the people that we interview. We had a lady recently that lost her son and she was talking about the state she was in and moving from victim to thriver. And the way she did was some words that a minister said to her, which is rather than say, why me?

say what now? And I think Tony Robbins has a beautiful way and many others too, Peter Cronin, many that are out there, Renee Brown, that talks about moving out of that state of victimhood because it doesn't serve and allowing yourself to acknowledge it and get the support you need. I'm absolutely shocked it's one in four that have suffered sexual abuse

And on that reference too, on the stat, we were talking about it before we clicked on record. Could you just elaborate what that stat involves? As I think it's been, you know, those stats probably about 50 years ago, if we were able to snapshot it back then would have been different, but now we're encapsulating a lot more that comes into that. So can you just share a little bit about how that stat is and where that stat came from?

So this stat is from the Australian Institute of Health and Research Sciences, and it was back in 2017 when this was released. And currently there's also conversations around Royal Commission in the childhood sexual abuse that is happening in Australia.

From a global perspective, I know that all the countries are having childhood sexual abuse, whether it's recorded, it's not recorded. But the stats that I'm referring to are the reported cases. But we all know that

not all of the victims of abuse report their abuse so when I speak on panels when I speak to other women in different settings there are often women who come to me and thank me for sharing my story because now they feel that they can share theirs too or at least accept it because sometimes they haven't even talked to their life partners about what happened in their childhood and

And that kind of gives me an idea or a little bit of a background that yes, these are the stats which are reported, but there could probably be many, many more who haven't reported these abusive cases that they've been through.

Yeah. And some people, you know, go into denial and just don't want to think about it and go there. I think too, in the mental health world, I sit on a hospital advisory board and mental health hospital and their description of abuse is anything less than nurturing. So it kind of is an equalizer for everyone that might've, you know, minimized what they went through and said it wasn't

really that bad. But it's anything less than nurturing is the description of what abuse is. So it's important that people listening

you know, if they are feeling like, well, maybe it was abuse, that they do talk to someone about it and reach out because it's not good sitting in your body. Secrets make us sick. And it's really important to find someone safe. And we might just mention that number again to, you know, to dial full stop. I think that's a fantastic service because it's 24-7. It's 1-800-424-0177.

And there are many local ones as well that you might find that are nearby to reach someone trusted with non-judgment that you can reach to. Can I step into a little bit just about, you know, where you are today now and the services that you're involved in and what you'd like to share with the audience about the services just to make them aware?

And yeah, we'd just love to hear more about that. Absolutely. Thank you so much. So the services that where I am sitting at, so let's get to where I'm sitting at. So currently, I'm the founder of My Second Home, where we advocate for people with disabilities rights, the supports that they need, and also through the process of, you know, safeguarding. We all know all the horrible news that we see on the TV all the time.

So I also have been part of the Now or Never NDIS campaign where there was funding slashes for occupational therapists. And sometimes, you know, you don't have to be an occupational therapist to advocate for what occupational therapists truly deserve in terms of, you know, what they were receiving from NDIS in terms of payments, how the slashes were impacting their lives.

I'm also the advocate for, as I mentioned before, prevention of childhood sexual abuse and making sure that access to justice is for everyone. So I recently spoke at a panel which was organized by the UK Civil Society of Women's Alliance in New York as a part of the Commission on the Status of Women. And I also feel like justice should be accessible to everybody. So whenever I see a vulnerable person

community, you know, I advocated for First Nations community and how access to justice is not how it looks like for everybody else. Because let's be honest, according to the ABS, 3% of Australia's population is Aboriginal and First Nations people. However, when we look into the prison statistics, 30% of the population in the prison is Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. So that statistics kind of like blew into me. And I'm like,

We really need to advocate. We really need to champion others. Sometimes advocacy doesn't mean that you just advocate for one cause which is close to you. Advocacy also means you sponsor other people's cause. You champion their causes when you see other people are vulnerable.

So in my position as vice president of Communities Council on Ethnic Issues, I advocate for the rights of migrant women and refugee families. That is something which I'm really passionate about as well. And again, it comes from my own experience of being fired when I was pregnant. And I did not know my rights. I did not know what I could do. I was afraid because when you enter a room and there are like five, six panel of lawyers and you're just 37 weeks pregnant sitting in front of them.

You don't know what to do. So a part of me is like, I want migrant women to know that what their rights are, so they are not taken advantage of, whether it's from a professional perspective of where they're working or whether it's from family perspective, because a lot of the conversations that I heard from the UN Commission on the Status of Women was negative.

around that how Australian migrant women are often becoming a part of coercive control because of their visa status or how the abuser takes them away from their friendship circles. And basically not having enough knowledge about your rights and what you can access to is a major, major reason why women don't leave abusive.

And in that too, just highlighting sort of the undertones of what you're talking about there, while they're being manipulated, there's mind brainwashing happening at the same time to then understand what is real, what is not real.

to then have accessibility in meaningful ways, that there's information available in terms of advocacy, knowing what's available so that it validates their experience to kind of be concrete. Yes, that little question mark in your mind and your heart is correct.

This is not okay. And to have meaningful ways to have that information accessible to the different aspects of different women. Yeah, incredible. I just wanted to add as well that because as if I did not have enough going on in my life, I did decide to form a state party, which I'm working on. It is, again, not an easy process. And that is the Protect Our Children Jail Not Bill initiative. And I'm working towards...

standing in the November elections, because I don't know if the audience is aware or not, there was campaign which was done by Grace Thame, and there are several states which has made it possible for survivors to share their story. But unfortunately, in Victoria, we still have suppression laws or gag laws, which prevents survivors from talking about their story or naming the abuser, even after they have been gone through the court case, and they have been

told and, you know, the judge has given them, yeah, yeah, that they are abuser. So they can't talk about that story. So I think one of the reasons why I decided to step into politics was to change that law. And entering politics then made me realize there are other things which I need to be aware of. So I became more active on climate action. And I'm part of the campaign for Environment Victoria, which is called Movement for Many.

And it is to encourage our diverse communities in Australia to also take part in climate action because there's mixed perspectives. So I want to make sure that if they see somebody who looks like them, if they see somebody who is also from a migrant background and is passionate about saving our climate, I'll be able to get more migrant community members involved in climate action.

I totally see how that has happened, how you've moved into a concern for firstly survivors of childhood abuse and then how you've moved to advocacy and now to the environment. I also talk about the fact that when we help families stepping out of domestic abuse, we actually help the environment because the domestic environment, if it's messy,

Guess what will happen? The external environment will be messy. People won't care about what they throw out. People won't care about the importance of recycling and trying not to buy things with plastic wrapped around it. You're just surviving. Once you get to a place where you're in a better space,

I can witness that in my own garbage bin. I get so pleased when I see how little we throw out now compared to what we used to. And I totally agree that you've got to look at the messiness in your own life first, but then there is more of a sense of concern for the world around once you can take yourself off.

what you're going so yeah so i truly believe i say that we're environmentalists by cleaning up the domestic environment we can ultimately have an impact on our environment in a sustainable way absolutely i completely agree with you mon because you're right when you're going through a domestic violence situation when you're doubting your

identity itself you're not going to think about oh should i use you know four star rating washing machine which is going to preserve the energy of good for the environment you're going to look for whatever and you can't think beyond what is going on because you're questioning your identity itself so once you're out of it it actually opens your horizons and you're like there's more to life there's more that we can create there's more that we can impact and change

And it's interesting, just on these recent interviews and conversations, Hina, again, I wish I had my Bobo the brain sitting right in front of me right now. It seems to be, you know, we've been talking about brain chemicals and what happens when, you know, we go to reach a high of a goal and we didn't achieve it. And, you know, what happens with those chemicals that, you know, it's making us feel a bit sad, a bit depressed. And to your point, when you think of you're in fight, flight, freeze, fawn, et cetera, mode, because you're in survival and you are just trying

You're trying to make sense of, even if you're post trauma, you are still in survival mode because you're not even sure what's hit you as such. So, you know, we're all in our hindbrain, we're in our amygdala response. Unfortunately, it's super hard to access our prefrontal cortex here. That is our planning, reasoning, judgment, our creativity, and, you know, being able to contribute in bigger ways. I think then it's a real, you know, if anybody's out there listening at the moment, viewing what we're talking about is amazing.

Another layer of motivation to really work on, you know, what's happened. It's not negating the trauma of it by any stretch. When you are able to get to a certain place, you literally open up new pathways in your brain or, you know, your brain is able to kind of come back online. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Be more mindful with intention. Put things into the garbage bin with intention. But when you're in survival, you're not. And the world is crazy. And, you know, I can see the steps you're making and why you are. We'd like to hear now just your pearls of wisdom for the audience.

tell us what you'd like to impart to the listeners as a survivor of childhood abuse and moving through into a political career having some experience stepping into being nominated as an independent candidate moving to this country 10 years ago you've achieved so much what great pearls of wisdom would you like to share with those listening

I don't consider myself to be an expert on a lot of things. I believe that, you know, we should all do whatever we can do, even the smallest of the steps. So one thing what I would want to impart to the audience, I would like to tell them is that world today is in a very...

weird place and there's lots of uncertainty around what's going on globally and what's going on in our country and what's going on in our state, in our locality. There's lots of uncertainty that's there. But one thing I want the audience to take away from today is that we cannot change the world by just sitting and saying that everything in the world is going wrong.

And we certainly cannot change the world by not taking any action. So it might feel hard for us in certain moments, especially if we have been through trauma, that what can one person do?

What can I do that is going to change the world? What is really important here is the smallest of the things. The ocean is made up of many small drops. So even the smallest of the actions that you're taking, the things that you are passionate about is working towards that change that you want to see in the world.

And there is a famous quote which says that be the change you want to see. So if you are uncomfortable with something, if you are not happy about something, instead of just sitting with it, think about one small action that you can take to work towards removing that situation. To all my fellow survivors who are listening and tuning into the show today, I just want to say that

Our past does not define who we are or who we can become. And this is my motto. And I tell it to everybody that regardless of whatever happened in your past, your actions now will define who you can become in your current life and who you can become in your future life.

Our traumas are here because that is going to give us the learnings and the perspectives. But the most important thing that you need to do is take action today, whether it's big, small, minuscule, smallest of the actions can bring biggest of the change. So don't be afraid for taking small actions.

I love what you say there. I often say I really don't cope with moors. I only want to hang around with doers. And, you know, I do hear people complaining about things and I go, right, what are you going to do about it? You know, like, because it's no point just talking about it, like go and do something, join an organization that will help make this problem go away or, you know, write a letter to your MP or start to follow the podcast that will help you to give you strategies that will help

in the area you know you're passionate about because you're right I think there's such an opportunity we're not excited by social media but I am excited by access to knowledge and I remember hearing the founder of Xero who said that you can become a knowledge expert in anything in six months if you want to and he became an expert in online accounting being an ordinary accountant and realized that there needed to be possibly another model of product and hence he built

the zero accounting software but he said it was simply watching podcasts reading listening to ted talks googling online and before he knew it he felt he was a master of online accounting practices so it is all there isn't it we can all do it if we want to

100%. I mean, some of us are hardwired to go into advocacy to really get into those places and spaces that we can affect change. And I think it's really important that there's a lot of people that have gone through the journey of healing that may not want to be that. But going out and just being...

the human that is healed. I really believe in that beautiful law of reciprocity and for when people witness you doing something good no matter what it is. Someone that witnesses that then gets those feel-good hormones as well

and is more likely to go out and do something good. And, you know, a very simple example of that was, I remember I was just walking along the street and gave a man that was walking along and he was on his walking frame and it was Easter time and, you know, he's going to the shops and

I put some Easter egg in his bag as he was walking. Oh, I love that. I love that, Mads. But, you know, somebody else just, and obviously you don't do it for these reasons, but someone else witnessed that. They saw the whole thing unfold and they came over and they said, oh, my gosh, I've never witnessed something like that. And I just...

I can't tell you how much that's affected me. And so they would then go out and at least for the next hour feel so good and probably going really positive as well. And it becomes that ripple effect. And so I just think, you know, we can do it in really tiny ways. We can do it in really impactful, meaningful ways. It's just there's such a bandwidth of what we can do. And every single one of those kinds of actions, you know,

tiny, medium, big, grandiose, the works, all of them have an impact and will also make you get out of your own story as well. Yeah, it takes yourself off yourself. So true, so true. Amazing. Any other little wisdoms you want to share, Hina, before we have to sadly say goodbye?

Just one another thing to add on to what Mads said. It's so true that, you know, you don't have to take big actions and, you know, you don't have to think that, oh, tomorrow I'm going to go out there and run for the election and change the law or whatever.

You can take small actions to be kind to other people. And sometimes kindness can be like being nonjudgmental. Don't judge the mom who's coming at drop off in her pajamas on. You don't know. Maybe she did a night shift at work. Like, you know, don't judge the people who are not throwing big.

kids birthday parties maybe they can't afford it being kind and non-judgmental is one of the smallest actions that we can take and I would encourage our listeners just be more kinder to people and think about what they might be going through maybe if somebody is being nasty to you they might have just had a bad day so be more forgiving and be more kind I think that's what I would want to leave it at yeah

Love it. Well, I would love you to go and stand for, you know, election again and kind of get that message across and encourage others who are going into politics with that same mindset. That's what we need in this country and around the world. Thank you so much, Hina, for your time.

We are so grateful to listen to Dr. Hina Chung with so much knowledge and experience and making impact in so many different ways across our community. So thank you for being a part of the Grit to Grace Grit Diaries. Maz, thank you for your time. How fortunate are we? We just get to have so many great conversations that we learn so much as a result. And no doubt our beautiful audience is going to take a lot away from today. So thank you, Dr. Hina Chung.

Thank you, Maz and Mon. It's been a pleasure. And before I go, Mon, I love your yellow blazer and earrings. I just had to say this before. Well, it's my day job with the Women's Resilience Centre. So you can dial in and have a look at that website and you'll see a lot of yellow I wear. I don't have yellow jammies though. Maybe I'll get those for Mother's Day.

Anyway, thank you so much. Thank you so much, ladies. Thank you. It's been an honor. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

Thank you for joining us on the Grit Diaries from Grit to Grace. If today's story has moved you, share it with someone who needs a little hope. Remember from grit, we can find grace and from grace, we can find inspiration. Until next time, look for the joy, keep safe, stay grounded and never forget that there is a strength within your own story. Take care.