In the first bonus episode of Season 13, Lucy Peppiatt, President of WTC Theology, shares insights derived from her research into what the Bible says about money, including how women fit into that overview.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Lucy introduces herself [01:21], comments on being a ‘theologian’ [02:39] and explains how she became a Christian. [03:54]
• Lucy describes the steps that led to her current role as President of WTC Theology and writing her first book, ‘The Disciple’. [06:34]
• In response to a question from Bex, Lucy talks about how she came to focus on what the Bible says about women [09:19] and goes on to share some examples of women in the Bible and the early church who had interesting interactions with money, wealth and possessions. [11:37]
• Lucy highlights how relevant the Bible remains today on financial matters, particularly with its main message that if you are a Christian, you need to be aware of the people around you who are in need, and you need to be prepared to meet that need. Furthermore, the Bible still speaks very powerfully to those at either end of the poverty / wealth spectrum, as does the general exhortation in Philippians 4 to ‘be anxious for nothing’. [16:14]
• Lucy comments that her personal approach to money has developed over the years so that she would now like to see far more transparency and openness among Christians on this topic, as well as real momentum being created to bring more and more people into a knowledge and experience of the joy of giving and of being generous. [19:51]
• It can feel awkward for church leaders to talk about money, but Lucy feels that it is a kingdom principle that should be given a natural, healthy and high profile in church life. [23:52]
• An upcoming project for Lucy is to write a couple of books on the pastoral epistles, and her preparatory work for that will include a teaching day that she is delivering in September on the topic of what those epistles say to the church. [27:14]
• When asked by Simon for recommendations of her books for listeners to this podcast, Lucy suggests ‘The Disciple’ and also ‘Rediscovering Scripture’s Vision for Women’. [29:28]
• To explore study options with WTC Theology, please go to https://wtctheology.org.uk/study-with-us/ [30:58]

A further bonus episode with a special guest will be published on 1 July 2026.

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to [email protected] while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

Our Instagram page will also provide you with additional content and features.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

You can sign up to receive news and updates about this podcast by filling out the brief form to which you will be taken when clicking here: https://where-your-treasure-is.kit.com/13c7b5fec6

Simon

Welcome to ‘Where Your Treasure Is…’, the podcast where faith meets finance.

Bex

I'm Bex Elder.

Simon

And I'm Simon Glazier. Each episode we're going to explore how biblical wisdom can guide our everyday money decisions.

Bex

We'll be looking at how we can give generously, save wisely and navigate the complex financial realities we face.

Simon

But remember, investments can go down as well as up.

Bex

This is ‘Where Your Treasure Is…’.

Simon

Let's get started.

Bex

So, first question, Simon, how are you today?

Simon

Oh, very well, Bex, very well. And when we’re recording this, I've just been on holiday, so I'm feeling very relaxed.

We have a guest speaker on today, so there's less prep for us to do. It's going to be an awesome podcast! How are you doing?

Bex

I am excellent. Just back from honeymoon, so couldn't be more relaxed if I tried. But I'm back, I'm ready to learn, I'm focused. Simon, who have we got with us today?

Simon

We are particularly excited because in all the years we've been doing a faith and finance podcast, we have got, for the first time ever, a proper theologian to come and speak to us. So, we have Lucy Peppiatt.

Lucy, we would like to know: what do you do, Lucy? And then explain what you do because your title probably doesn't convey everything that we need to know about what you do.

Lucy

Well, hi, Simon; hi, Bex. Thank you so much for having me on your great podcast. Yes, my name is Lucy Peppiatt.

My job is as the president of Westminster Theological Centre (WTC). So, I was the principal for many years and then we appointed a new principal, Ben Blackwell, who actually runs the college and I moved into the president role, which is a sort of consultant, outward facing role.

I support Ben; we work very closely together, and I do things that he perhaps doesn't spend a lot of time on, and then he does the things that I used to do as the principal, which is great and I love it. It's a three-day week role and in my other days I am trying to do more writing. That was the goal - to transition out of a super busy job of running the whole college to being still involved, still teaching, but also having time to write.

Bex

Sounds wonderful! And I feel like we throw about the term ‘theologian’ a lot, but what does that actually entail on the day to day? What are you looking at? What are you reading about? How do you decide where to start?

Lucy

Wow! Well, a theologian is a scholar of the Christian faith, and actually it's an interesting word because it means slightly different things in different contexts. So, I am what's called a systematic theologian, which means that I am a teacher of doctrine, Christian doctrine.

And we tend to use the term ‘theologian’ really for any academic, scholarly person of Christian studies, and so including Old Testament, New Testament, pastoral theology, ethics, etc. But, also, you use ‘theologian’ specifically for people like me who are systematic theologians; and you may call somebody a ‘Bible scholar’ who is someone who focuses more specifically on Old Testament, New Testament, but that wasn't my training. I love the Bible, I spend a lot of time reading the Bible, but as a scholar, I was a scholar of Christian doctrine.

Simon

And we are so going to get into some of that! But before we do, we want to go back in time a little bit. Lucy, would you tell us a bit about your journey of faith? Have you always been a Christian? How did you become a Christian? When did you make your commitment to Christ?

Lucy

Initially, I was brought up in a lovely Christian home - very gently Christian, I would say. My parents both attended our local Anglican church. My dad was quite private about his faith. It was very deep faith and he read a lot. And he also loved the Bible, went to church every Sunday, but didn't really talk about his faith a lot until he got a bit older.

My mother was more overt about her faith. She was the one that would maybe lead prayers at home or she set us up with a little family service when we all decided we didn't want to go to church anymore. And she would talk about prayer and about Jesus and about her relationship with him a lot more.

But we weren't evangelicals, so I was never sent to camps, we didn't say grace at every meal, there wasn't this expectation that you needed to go out and tell everyone about Jesus.

And we were quite free range kids, I think. My parents weren't very disciplinarian at all, so we all sort of went our own way. And there was this assumption that God was there, but no one had to talk about it a lot.

And then when I was in my 20s, I was about 23, having been very uninterested in being a committed Christian for a number of years, especially through university, I was actually working in a Catholic day centre for the homeless. I was very impressed with the people I was working with and their faith, their commitment, their working with the poor, which meant a lot to me. They made a deep impression on me.

And then I also met some other wonderful charismatic Christians in Kenya and in the UK and, over a period of probably about a year, I realised that I was faffing around on the edges of faith, and that wasn't good enough!

And I just had this really strong sense that I knew Jesus was real and true. And I thought, if he's really here, I've got to take this seriously - like, this has got to have a claim on my life! And I found myself in a meeting with some friends I'd met who invited me to this Holy Spirit Day. And I had an amazing time of prayer and gave my life to Jesus. And it was fantastic. And then my life completely changed.

Simon

I so hope that one of the books you write will be titled ‘Faffing on the Edges of Faith’!

Bex

That was so relatable. It just never gets old hearing about how people come to Jesus.

So, you were faffing about; you'd been working in this day centre. How did you go from there - from making that commitment - to then going on to where you are now? And what role did God play in that? What did that look like?

Lucy

God played the key role in absolutely everything from that day onwards. And I found myself really committed to going to church. I loved going to church. I loved worship. I read my Bible every day.

And I ended up marrying a Church of England vicar, which was absolutely not in my life plan at all. And on our honeymoon, I felt God calling me to be a lay preacher.

Bex

Wow!

Lucy

I know. And then all sorts of things kicked off in my life. I met Jesus really properly. I felt I really, really committed my life to him. And I did want to just do whatever he wanted me to do. I genuinely did. But I had no idea what that meant.

And it meant becoming a vicar's wife, which was actually very difficult, and I didn't want to do that. I think my friends of that time thought that I'd gone a bit weird, considering what I was like before.

But I was delighted, felt that was a real privilege. To be called to serve in the church and then to be preaching was amazing.

But I would be preaching and feel like I just didn't know enough from my little training that I'd done with the Church of England, so I started studying just on my own - did a degree, another bachelor's degree, and when I got to the end of that, I thought, I need to keep studying! And so I did a master's and then I did a PhD!

Simon

And when did it become your desire rather than just to learn more about your faith in the Bible, but then to pass it on - and I’m not talking now as lay preacher, but in that environment of a theological centre, a college - becoming a teacher, lecturer, author. When did that happen?

Lucy

Well, the teaching of theology, that started when I was doing my PhD.

There was a really lovely woman called Jeanette Sears who taught at Trinity Theological College in Bristol, where I live, and she opened a door for me to do some teaching. And I found I absolutely loved it. I just loved being in a classroom teaching theology.

I always felt like I didn't know enough and that I needed to really up my game and had terrible imposter syndrome, but I found a real love of it.

And then I wrote a PhD, but then when I finished that, I wrote the book ‘The Disciple’, and then, I think, really found my love of writing. And so, in my later 40s, I found out who I was, the things that I loved, and things that I wanted to just do for the rest of my life.

Bex

So encouraging and just infectious to hear someone when they're talking about the thing that they're passionate about! I feel like a little bit of a fangirl right now because I love your book on women, and women in the Bible. And I would love to know, how did you end up specialising in that? What led you to focus your studies there?

Lucy

That's an interesting question, because I didn't want to actually write on women!

I had trained as a theologian of more trinitarian theology, and my PhD was on the topic of Christ and the Spirit, which I still find endlessly fascinating. But I got the job of the Principal of WTC, and so I found myself in a position of leadership in the evangelical world, as a woman.

And my students quite rightly kept asking me, ‘But what do you think about the Bible? What do you think about what the Bible says about women?’

And I had always pushed off the idea, just thought, ‘Oh, I've always lived in a world where it's fine. So, however people read the Bible, it's going to be fine.’

But I realised that I had to do my own work on these texts that were highly problematic and actually often weaponised against women; and that, actually, it was a much more serious topic, really, than I had given credit for, because my own life hadn't been affected by that. So I actually felt quite selfish in a way, for not doing the work and for putting it off.

And I was convicted, I think, by the Spirit, that if I had had such a privileged life in my relationship with other women, and especially with men, then there was something beholden upon me to look into these texts and see what they said.

And so, I started the journey where I thought it was going to be like, literally, honestly, about two weeks research. And now, years later and three books later - I've just finished co-writing a book with Scott McKnight – and, yeah, it goes on and on and on - but I'm glad I've done the work.

Simon

So, Lucy, does the Bible say much about women and wealth and money and possessions, which we can use today to help us understand how we all, or women in particular, should relate to money, wealth and possessions from a faith perspective?

Lucy

I think the first thing I think of is that there were women who supported Jesus. And Luke 8 talks about them: Joanna and other women who were disciples of Jesus, and they financially supported his mission.

It's very interesting that Luke chooses to include that. He doesn't need to include it, but he does. He tells us about these women who travel around with Jesus, and you get the impression that some were married and some were not married - perhaps women of independent means, which many women were.

So, it was a sort of uncompromisingly patriarchal world, the New Testament world that we see, and the Old Testament. But within that, what we see is some very empowered women. And, actually, we should expect that, because Roman and Greek culture and also Jewish culture - all these cultures - converged in the Middle East, Palestine at the time of Jesus - these powerful cultures, all three in this melting pot together.

And there were women who had great agency, and it always went with money. Of course it did! But I think this is what's so fascinating about your topic of money, because it's so central, I think, to everything in the world, you know, and the women who had power and agency and education had money. And perhaps their husbands were actually really lovely husbands. Not every marriage in the ancient world was an oppressive marriage. We have documents that celebrate good marriages and where men really honoured their wives and were proud of them.

So, maybe they had a husband who shared his money with them. Maybe they had a husband who had married someone who was wealthier than him and allowed her to keep her family money. Or maybe they were widowed and had their husband's money, or maybe they never married.

It's interesting - there's been a tradition of Christian women throughout history where women choose not to marry in order to have a sense of autonomy. Now, sometimes those women actually have given up their money and gone into monastic lifestyle – so, the desert mothers and fathers, they famously had been wealthy people. They gave up their wealth and they went out into the desert to become closer to God. They saw wealth as a huge distraction.

Or you could stay single and still have your wealth and then do good things with your wealth. But not marrying meant that your husband did not have any rights over your money - you could choose to do with it what you wanted.

And then, I'm also interested in Martha and Mary and Lazarus, who are great, great friends of Jesus, and he goes to stay with them when he goes to Bethesda. And it's made quite a lot of that in John's Gospel. And I think about Martha and Mary, they sort of take a lead in the family. If you read the narratives, it sounds like Lazarus is their younger brother. That's what I feel like it is, because they take a lead in the household. And I think they were probably a reasonably wealthy family. So, Martha and Mary around Jesus.

And then the last woman I think of is Phoebe, who is mentioned in Romans 16. And she was a patron of Paul's – so, she funded Paul's mission.

So, you have these women in the New Testament who use their money for the mission of Jesus in an ongoing way. And of course, throughout history that's carried on. There were women who were patrons of the early church fathers. Jerome was an early church father who had connections with many women. He used to write to them and support them in the faith, and then they would support him.

Bex

It is fascinating hearing more depth into characters you can skip past or not quite understand the significance of.

And I think one of the things I find most challenging when reading the Bible is understanding it in the context it was written and the cultural meaning behind some of those things, and not immediately trying to translate it to my life and my world and what makes sense to me culturally.

And so, I'm intrigued on the money theme. How can we take the principles and the teaching that we get in the Bible on money and translate it to today, where obviously financial systems are entirely different? What does that look like? Where do we start?

Lucy

Yeah, I think it's so interesting that we're talking about texts that were written, well, in the New Testament, you know, just under 2,000 years ago. And then in the Old Testament, when you read something like Proverbs or the Psalms, you're reading ancient, ancient texts.

But I think most Christians do have this experience that you read these ancient texts and somehow they speak today - they speak to us in such a deeply relevant way of, ‘Oh, that makes sense to me literally today, in my own life!’

And one of the things that I was reflecting on is how much the Bible, the New Testament, speaks about money both to wealthy people and also to people in need. And there's such amazing wisdom both for people who, in a sense, maybe have too much money - whatever too much money means - or have money to give away -they have more than they need -and also speaks to people who don't have enough, who might be terribly anxious about what is going to happen tomorrow, for me, with my family.

And I think that that's really fascinating that we have perspectives on both those things, as well as endless exhortation in the New Testament to look after the poor, to look after people who don't have enough. And there's not a lot of commentary or judgment on why somebody might be poor. There's a little bit about don't be idle, but the main message is that if you are a Christian, you need to be aware of the people around you who are in need, and you need to be prepared to meet that need. And I think that's amazing in today's world!

So, the Bible is addressing all the situations we might find ourselves in, giving us wisdom for those situations.

I think about anxiety. So many people are anxious! And then you think about Philippians 4, where Paul says, ‘Be anxious for nothing!’, ‘Be anxious for nothing!’

And you're thinking, ‘Goodness me, imagine my life if I wake up in the morning and I'm not anxious for anything during the day, but in everything by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God.’

So this exhortation to come to God with everything that you need, and then that's reminiscent of Jesus's teaching on the Sermon on the Mount, where he says, ‘Don't worry!’, ‘Don't worry about anything, because your heavenly Father will provide for you, your clothing and your food.’ And it's an astonishing message!

But then at the same time, addressing rich people and telling rich people in no uncertain terms that they are to give generously all the time, and that that is your calling - if you are wealthy, you are called to give!

Simon

We know that the Bible says a lot about money in so many ways, and so much of it is still relevant to us today.

Anecdotally, to some extent, it feels as though in churches, on Sunday mornings, from the pulpit, from the stage, not so much is said about the topic of money.

And I'm just wondering, Lucy, whether you have your own journey of understanding the theology of money, or your personal approach to money, to being a Christian and managing money, wealth and possessions. How have you journeyed?

Lucy

I attended the Stewardship Generosity Report this year = very grateful to be there.

I thought it was fascinating, and there was quite a lot of discussion of people, panellists, there, and really great contributors, talking about different cultures, of speaking about money or not speaking about money in different denominations, which I really resonated with, because I actually have a lot to do with lots of different denominations in my job, which I love. And having been part of the Anglican Church from in my 20s and then my parents were also Anglican, I recognised immediately that Anglicans are very reticent about talking about money and teaching their congregations to give. Whereas there were people there from black majority churches saying, ‘Oh, we just give as a matter of course. We have teaching on giving constantly.’ People are exhorted to give every week, and there's a real joy and a freedom that they were communicating about that.

And I thought, ‘Oh, that's wonderful!’, you know, and also transparency about how much people were giving, which I thought, ‘That's challenging and good and interesting to me,’ you know, that they don't have this embarrassment of, ‘Oh, yeah, I gave £5,000,’ or whatever.

So, churches actually have very different approaches: that's what I would say.

So, I've learned over the years, my personal preference is for more transparency, openness, teaching about giving regularly and bringing people into a knowledge and an experience of the joy of giving, of the joy of being generous, and then seeing what God can do with that. Because my experience is that when you're around people who give really generously, it releases more of God's work around you. It's like it sort of helps release the work of the Spirit in a way.

I think my husband was really keen to teach our boys to give, and I loved watching that as well and seeing them learning to give out of some of the little bits of money that they had when they were younger and then more and more as they got older, and them sharing their testimonies with us, which has been really good. And it's actually interesting: two of my sons have gone into fundraising and they love it!

So, I think that probably tells you something of how we in our family love the idea of giving. We love the idea of wanting to help people to give. We want, ourselves, to be people who don't withhold unnecessarily.

So, yeah, I think money is a fascinating topic. I was in America recently, and our friends over in America said that they never talk about salaries. And I didn't realise that. Nick and I were talking about money with them, and I said something about salaries - maybe at WTC or something - and they said, ‘Gosh, it’s so interesting to have this conversation with you because it's totally taboo to talk about salaries in America.’ Isn't that interesting!

Bex

Fascinating!

Lucy

And I said, ‘Poor you, you need to change that!’ It's a good conversation. It's an interesting conversation. Ask people, ‘What do you do with your money?’

So, I think there's lots we can learn about that.

Bex

I'm just relieved to know I'm not the only person who starts conversations about salaries and what are you doing with your money!

As you were talking, I was reminded of some of the conversations we've had with other guests over the different seasons and thinking, we've had conversations with people leading multi-site churches, people church planting, church accountants, and the common theme was that money is stressful and it's hard to plan. It's sometimes hard to communicate that vision without feeling manipulative.

I would love it if you had any practical tips for church leaders or for parents or, indeed, in those conversations with friends about how we can talk about money in a way that is normal and healthy.

Lucy

I do understand people feeling like this is a stressful topic.

But as I've thought about it over the years, I did definitely have a shift in my own life where I moved from being embarrassed and reticent to talk about money to realising very clearly that not only is it very important to be able to talk about money, but also it's a kingdom principle. I think. It's not just a ‘nice to have’.

I think that we need to be people who can talk transparently and openly about money, about what we need for different things. If we don't let people know what's needed in an organisation or a church or whatever, how do people know when they can give? They don't know! You haven't told them; you haven't asked! And, so, I think that's important!

And, then, I think I would really encourage church leaders to say, ‘Surely, you know, the joy of giving.’ Church leaders are often not paid very much and so perhaps have their own anxieties - and I understand that – but, even without much money, we can always give something: just give something!

And being able to see a need and contribute to it is a joy and it's a privilege, and it's something which is a lovely thing to be able to do.

And Paul just expected that churches would be giving money to each other, whoever needed it. You know: ‘We'll raise money and we'll bring that to you!’

So, I think I would really encourage church leaders to not focus on, ‘This is so awful! I'm asking for people's hard earned money,’ but to think about if they do give to this or that, this person, this project, this thing, they will see the joy of having been able to create this thing or to support this person, or whatever it is that they're able to give to - even if it's £2, you know, £3, £5, it means something! And money speaks! It has a value beyond itself.

And I think that Jesus is quite clear in his teachings, especially in Matthew, you know - in Matthew 6, there's a lot of verses about money. That's where he says, ‘You can't serve two masters - either you're going to hate one or love the other.’ And so, he talks about not worrying. It's where he talks about the name of your podcast: ‘Don't store up for yourselves treasures on earth, but treasures in heaven.’ And so, we're spiritually formed by giving money away and contributing to other projects and things that aren't ours.

And I think Jesus wants that for us!

So, I would say to church leaders: read books on how to teach on giving, realise it's a blessing to people around you, model it, and people will see the fun of it and see what God can do when we become a generous people.

Simon

Ah, so good! Lucy, I want to bring things to an end by giving you a bit of a platform, bit of a free range: what's God speaking to you personally about at the moment? Where's he drawing you to? What's the next book about? What's the next thing?

Lucy

Oh, I have so many different things on my mind. So let me just share two things, I think.

One is that I am part of a college that wants to equip the church with deeper knowledge of the scriptures and therefore, really a deeper knowledge of God: of who he is, of what he wants for us, of how he's involved in the world.

And I would love to see a church that loves to go deeper in its faith, that really embraces the work that's needed - but it doesn't feel like work, I don't think. I think a lot of our students just - well, I hope most / all of our students - love learning about God and reading books and getting that deeper, sometimes more nuanced faith. But it's freeing. It's releasing.

And I think talking to you guys about money, I genuinely feel that. I feel like if you start to live according to God's principles on the earth, we will get to be freer and freer people. He will set us free from things that really bind us up.

And so that's on my heart: that the church becomes a freer place, more committed to Jesus, more understanding what it means for his kingdom to come on the earth, for his will to be done.

And I'm due to write actually two books on the pastoral epistles in the years to come. And so I'm about to take a deep dive into those. I've obviously read them quite a lot and I've started doing my reading around the subject, and I'm actually going to be doing a teaching day at our residential in September on, ‘What do the pastoral epistles say to the church?’

Bex

Gosh, I'm buzzing! I'm ready to hear all of this!

And I think that is the absolute joy of speaking to someone who has found the thing that the Lord has asked them to do because you can't help but be excited and want to learn more.

Simon

Well, I'm now thinking I'm missing out! Bex is clearly a fan of at least some of your books, Lucy. I have to admit, I’ve never read any of them.

So, I'm going to put you on the spot for me and our listeners. Which would you recommend to me or listeners that I should go to first?

Lucy

Oh, okay. I'm going to say that for your listeners, I would go to ‘The Disciple’ first. That was my first book and it is about discipleship, and it is written for normal Christians in normal churches, and it's not highly academic, and a lot of it comes from my own experience as a pastor.

But I would also really love people to read ‘Rediscovering Scripture's Vision for Women’. I hope that that book lays out for people why I and many, many other people think that the Bible actually really does have a vision that men and women are working together in whatever ministry God calls them to in the church, in the kingdom, in the world, and that it's not limited by what sex they are, but that just God calls all his people to all his ministries, and when he calls us, we should do what he asks us to do.

Simon

Brilliant! I think if we run out of topics and we have more authors on the podcast, we'll have to go for a season of book reviews.

And Bex, you and I will have to read and comment.

Bex

Sign me up!

Simon

That's your happy place, isn't it?

Bex

Oh, that's… that's a joy!

Simon

Lucy, that has been superb! Thank you so much!

Lucy

Oh, thank you! Thanks so much for having me!

Bex

Absolute joy!

And if you want to find out more about WTC, about how you can access further study or more about Lucy, we will post all the links in the show notes as well.

Simon

We will see you next time for another star guest on the ‘Where Your Treasure Is…’ podcast. Until then, farewell from me!

Bex

Bye from me!

Lucy

And goodbye from me!

Bex

That's it for this episode of ‘Where Your Treasure Is…’

Simon

Thanks for listening. Let's keep learning to be good stewards of all we've been given.

Bex

See you next time!