Every year, it seems like the Christmas season starts earlier and earlier, and you can see people getting annoyed about it on social media. Some people say it’s inappropriate to get your Christmas decorations up until the day after Thanksgiving. But it’s not like department stores are listening to this, they get their Holiday displays up immediately after Halloween is over. And while Jesus may be the reason for the season, Christmas is the reason that most retail outlets stay in business.

And of course, the early Church had no idea when Jesus’ actual birthday was, so they tried to picked a day that would be easy for recent converts. It wasn’t that unusual, because Roman emperors would arbitrarily pick a day to celebrate their birthdays instead of the actual anniversary of their birth.) December 25th worked out perfectly because you already had a Roman celebration called Saturnalia, which was their big yearly party complete with debauchery, pig offerings, human sacrifices of Gladiators, and customs that put the social order on its head like masters serving their slaves. In other Pagan areas you had Solstice celebrations and dancing and singing around the longest night of the year. People were used to having a party around December, so it seemed like putting Christmas in December was a perfect opportunity.

Are you not entertained, Saturn?

In modern America, we have been conditioned to celebrate before the Holidays, mostly to encourage the gift-giving aspect and to keep our retail stores in business. Back in the Middle Ages, the time before Christmas, Advent, was a time of fasting, much like Lent before Easter. They would sacrifice a little comfort to show their respect for the season and then start pigging out for 12 days starting on Christmas. Because there wasn’t a lot of agricultural work, peasants got the full Twlevetide off during the Middle Ages and there was some reason to party every day. It makes our official holidays of Christmas and New Year’s Day seem pretty weak by comparison. And they kept their Christmas decorations up until Candlemas on February 2nd, which was the date Mary went to temple and is supposed to have sacrificed a lamb and a dove as part of her post-birth purification ritual. 

So if anyone ever tells you magic isn’t part of the Judeo-Christian tradition, remind them that the Virgin Mary had to burn a baby sheep at a temple and slaughter a dove for her sins. And then we have a special Mass and Feast day to celebrate that animal sacrifice.

So, the time of year starting on Christmas and going until January 6th (which was the day that the Three Wise Men who were following the Star of Bethlehem showed up to meet Jesus in person) is known as the Twelvetide. Back in the Middle Ages, there was a Feast Day for each day of the 12 and now we only really think about it because of the “Twelve Days of Christmas” song.

And here’s a little hometown pride for us (being from Wisconsin). The song was introduced to the United States in Milwaukee! Emily Brown of the Downer Teacher’s College found the song in a book on a trip to England and then she brought it back for her own Christmas pageant in 1910 and that was the first time it was sung in America!

But because there was an almost two-week long religious holiday around the Solstice and New Year every year, plenty of legends and traditions of the Twelvetide arose themselves. We’ve talked in detail about Krampus and Iceland’s Christmas monsters , but another fun Yuletide beastie is the Kallikantzaroi , who are the Greek goblins of Christmas and are active during the 12 days of Christmas.

They appear differently in different areas of Greece, with some saying that they’re tall ugly humans with dark complexions and others saying they are short and hairy with bulging red eyes. They act more like drunken idiots than a force of evil by urinating in flowerbeds, breaking furniture, and basically wreaking havoc on the nights during the Christmastide.

The Greeks have a variety of ways to ward off the Kallikantzaroi including making crosses of coal on the windows of the house, burning a log from a thorny tree in the fireplace, or sometimes putting the bottom jaw of a pig behind the door or in the chimney (there’s our sacrifice again!)

In this episode, we talk about the Christmas goblins as well as other interesting legends and traditions of the Twelve Days of Christmas, including:

• How children born on Christmas Day have the risk of becoming Kallikantzaroi themselves!
• Also wreaking havoc is the English “Lord of Misrule” during Twelvetide
• How the Feast of the Innocents remembers the particularly nasty Christmas story of King Herod and his slaughter of children in Bethlehem
• The role reversals of Twelfth Night and their origin in Saturnalia
• Why fasting, once part of the Christmas tradition during Advent, is so popular among religions

Welcome to See You on the Other Mike, where the world of

the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality,

the weird, and self discovery. And

now, your hosts, musicians and entertainers

who have their own weakness for the weird, Mike and

Wendy from the band Sunspot. Episode

278, the kalikanseroy, the Greek

goblins of Christmas and legend of the

12 Mike. Wendy, Merry

Christmas. Merry Christmas. Alright. And we're

joined today, Scott from what's your ghost story.com.

Merry Christmas, Scotster. Happy Yule to you.

Thank you. Oh, get pagan on me. Yeah.

'Tis the season. Yeah. You know, and we're recording this the day after the

solstice. Did you guys do any, solstice y

magicky things yesterday? We well, we celebrated.

Yeah. We celebrated a friend's birthday who happened to be born on the

solstice, and we we we shared some, solstice stories and

whatnot. I think that's very much in the spirit of the day is

having some mead and, telling stories. Yeah. Well, and we'll we'll give

a shout out to a happy birthday, to Iris who was celebrating her

40th. So it was a big one. Nice. You know, a momentous occasion.

My brother-in-law was born on the solstice, and so his

mother always says, you were born and it was the

longest night of the year.

And that's her joke for it.

So And then the world got brighter Yeah. Day by day. That's what we were

celebrating is that when when Iris entered the world, it began to get brighter in

the on earth here and the northern hemisphere, Fear It Last. There you go. At

least. I I went to the bonfire

on Lake Monona yesterday. Sweet. So you'd you'd dance around naked with everybody?

Well, close. Cool. It actually, it was 40 it was 40

degrees, so I was thinking about getting naked. It was like spring weather yesterday.

Yeah. Beautiful. It was beautiful. And,

no. But I did and it was funny because my toddler sees everybody dancing, and

she's like, I wanna dance too. So she got out and then we all but

the thing is the way we were dancing is we were holding hands and dancing

around in a circle. And I'm like, this is the wicker man.

A nice wholesome family day out. We are living the

wicker man. But it was really fun. And what people were doing was

they were writing down their wishes for the New Year,

and they were throwing them in the fight. Burning them burn.

Burning the wishes. But it was pretty neat. It was

neat to see people doing just a little bit of magic, and having a

big crowd. There's also this, like, giant crone,

like, on stilts walking around the place. So that did make

it feel like I thought that we were about to, like, find a virgin. Oh,

boy. Like, we're gonna find one of those in Madison and set them on fire.

But it was a good time. So it was cool to celebrate the solstice and

enjoy, the longest night of the year. And so

I'm glad we all did something, and I hope you guys did something fun

to to get a little bit of magic in your life. But even if you

don't do even if you don't do some pagan crap, we

hope that you're enjoying the Christmas time because it is a

fun time of year. It is a fun time of year. And, you know, at

the birthday party last night, she had asked Scott to tell some ghost stories

related to the solstice. And it's amazing

how much ghost storytelling is a part of the this time of

year. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Dating back to English tradition. But I wanted to

just jump in also, because you're talking about, you know, making wishes,

Mike, and then burn throwing them into the fire. I've I've been at I was

at a festival in Los Angeles at one point, and we

I don't I don't know if it was on the solstice or an equinox or

something, but we it was more Asian where he had all those, like

very light paper prayer, sigils

of some sort, like little flags. Some of them symbolize money. They

symbolize different things, and you would make your wishes and light them on fire. Then

the the heat would carry them, and they would burn up in the sky. So

very similar. That's the thing that I find so fascinating as you look around the

world into ancient traditions even though these people presumably had no

contact with each other, and there's similarities that run through. Well, you know, and

and, you know, I we keep coming back to Real Magic and Dean Radin,

but doctor Radin, when he says when he talks about the

simplest way you can do magic is write

your wishes on a piece of paper, have a ceremony where you set them

on fire, and it seems that humans have

this kind of thing programmed in them to set our intentions in

a certain way. Yeah. That's true. And also,

getting back to, like, this time of year, the ghost storytelling thing.

Mhmm. It's just it seems so odd to us because it seems Mike, well, it's

a religious holiday that we're celebrating. But it does make sense that

this is a time of year when there's a lot of families getting together, whether

it's for religious purposes or not. Mhmm. And, you know, a lot of

just traditional gathering type things. So families get

together and before they had their giant screen TVs and

800 channels to tune into, it's natural to sit

around and tell stories. But, you know, what kind of stories are the most

fun? I think we know. Well, ghost stories are the most fun.

But, you know, what you got me thinking here though is that we

think of religion as not having a, I

hate to say, a cult component, but what we we traditionally think of

as an occult component, as a mystical component.

So we're almost draining the spiritual power out of our

religion by saying, oh, yeah. That's religious stuff, so they're not

gonna have anything mystical. No. It's religious stuff. Of

course, they're gonna have something mystical. Power. One of

the first things when we're doing research for this episode is we're going back to

how people celebrated Christmas in the middle ages. And so, you know, I

grew up with an advent calendar where we would you know, the beginning of

December, we would open the calendar every day and get a little

chocolate or something. Right? Chocolate. And yeah.

So every day you have this advent calendar, but in the advent

was like Lent in the Middle Ages. So

Lent is where you have a period of

fasting and self denial kind of thing or

or gratification denial before a holiday

so that it be it becomes more powerful. There you know, it it's like the

Muslims have Ramadan that where they fast from dust till dawn. They don't need

anything during Ramadan the entire month from dust till dawn. And fasting is

part of, you know, religious traditions from all

over the world, and it used to be part of the Christmas tradition where you

would fast during Advent and you wouldn't eat during the day. And that's why

Christmas was such kind of a, like, a big deal, a big feast and everything

for 2 weeks. The 12th tied. And we're gonna talk about the Christmas time

and the 12 days of Christmas and how people used to celebrate it in this,

episode. But doing the research, you kinda

discover that, you know, there there's so many interesting,

rituals that people used to do in order to make

the event more spiritual. That when we talk about religious

things Mike, oh, it's a religious thing. You know, it's not weird or occult or

mystical or anything. No. This is exactly where things are,

weird and occult and mystical. And so, you

know, specifically, I one of the things I thought was really interesting was that,

number 1, we start celebrating Christmas, like, right, I mean,

right after Halloween, really. At least the the store starts

celebrating Christmas right after Halloween. Before. They jumped the gun a bit.

Yeah. Because they're trying to sell stuff. Absolutely. And that's okay.

I mean, that's how people have jobs and things like that. And so everybody's like,

oh, I hate to hear Christmas carols before Thanksgiving. But at the same

time, you know, the people that work at Sears have to feed their kids.

But, you know, in the old days, it was more about

celebrating after Christmas instead of before Christmas. Okay. Yeah. The

12 days of Christmas aren't leading up to Christmas. It's just be

that's the beginning. Right? Right.

Exactly. And so they have this whole celebration starts on Christmas Day,

goes to, the epiphany, 6th, and that's when the,

the 3 wise men were supposed to show up, otherwise known

as the 3 magi. Right? So we got magic right in it.

And people kept their Christmas decorations up

until candle mass, which is February 2nd.

I like that. I usually do that too. Yeah. But it's

not necessarily for any kind of reason. It's just because I can't get to taking

down the Christmas decorations until then. You got other stuff to do.

But, you know, so we're we're talking about celebrating before Christmas.

Back in the day, people celebrated after Christmas, and then Candlemas

is this entire it's a it's a feast day

based on the fact that Mary brought Jesus to the Jewish temple,

and she was supposed to undergo her cleansing. And

so the cleansing real quick comes from Leviticus,

which is in the old testament. And so the 8th

day so the 8th day after the child is born, they

get circumcised, which is the moving the foreskin.

And then 2 weeks later, I'm sorry. Not

2 weeks. And she shall continue in the blood of purification

3 30 days. She shall touch no hallowed thing nor come into the

sanctuary until the day of her purification be fulfilled. So this is entire

thing of after you have a kid, the woman

is not pure until she goes through a witch ritual,

and that's what candle mass is on February 2nd. That's when people take down their

Christmas decorations. And so the days of her purification are fulfilled

for a son or for a daughter. She shall bring a lamb of the 1st

year for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a turtle dove for

a sin offering onto the door of the tent of the meeting and onto the

priest. So what happens is you burn

a lamb to death 33 days after you have a kid and you

kill a dove for your sins, and that's that's how you

purify yourself. And so when you're like, okay.

What's the mystical part of religion?

It's right there. Some animal sacrifice. Yeah. Yeah. Animal sacrifice, and there's a

special day for it. Oh, this is when Mary burnt a lamb. We're gonna

have a feast. Now take down the Christmas decorations. I am surprised the spa

industry hasn't jumped on the, hey, everybody. Time to get purified. Come on in.

Nice. Right. They you know, they could say, like, oh, this is

symbolic burning of a lamb or something like that too, and then you just have,

like, a hologram. Mary burned a little lamb. But it's

just interesting when you go through some of it it's fleeces white as

snow. Black as death. Yeah. No. But when you go

through and you look at the origins a lot of these festivals and these

things that people celebrate and to see how they used to do it, you understand

that the things that we think of as kind of occult

spirituality are very much part of the Judeo Christian tradition.

So Mike Wendy, when you were saying Mike, oh, it's a religious holiday, it's, you

know, it's not weird. Well, it's there's plenty of weird writing

in it. And it's funny that when we think of religious holidays, we don't think

of those weird aspects because they are baked right in at the

beginning. That's true. Yeah. I mean, I guess I was thinking more in terms

of, like, it seems bringing ghost stories

and, you know, dark tales of

spooky creepiness at a time Mike Christmas where you typically

think of, like, the family sitting around the table having, you know,

ham or whatever. Yes. It doesn't seem like

those would go hand in hand. And yes, as I said, it's it's a

tradition. And I mean, not only the famous, the Christmas story,

but, or a Christmas carol. Christmas carol. You'll shoot your

eye out. Can't put my arms down. But also, you know,

the the most wonderful time of the year has the the line

of the scary ghost stories and tales of it. Like, what?

I always thought that was weird, but now I don't. Now I just like it.

So while they used to celebrate more after Christmas and

do fasting and more of self denial

before Christmas to make it even bigger party, today, we

obviously start the party early and we

get festive, as soon as possible.

So, you know, and that's part of, like, getting ready for the solstice

and the traditional having the solstice be the time of the year

where, you know, people celebrate because it's dark and

nasty most of the nights. Now, Scott, when you were doing research for solstice

ghost stories, what were some of the interesting things that you found? Yeah. Well, I

mean, you know, you think we're doing this. There's a celebration

because the sun is the lowest it's gonna be all year in the northern hemisphere.

So, naturally, it's gonna be tied to harvest festivals,

whether it's Wiccan, pagan, really just just farmers

that are paying attention to when they can grow again and the fact that they're

at the at their most desperate right now. Right. And so I

I think we tend to have this, little bit of a,

cultural bias towards American ancient or not ancient, but old

traditions and also European. But China, of course, is in the northern

hemisphere, and they as well had they they observed the solstice. They

the the yellow emperor of China, Mike, 3000 years ago, decided

that solstice should be considered New Year's Day because it's the beginning of the

brightening. So, yes, it's obviously been

observed for a very long time, and there's a lot of, Chinese folklore

that there's a lot of different stories, but they tend to all have similar

themes that revolve around, peace, reuniting with the

family, remembering those, around us who have done good deeds and

kind of honoring them, which is so lovely and positive.

Yeah. Well, you guys can honor me for my good deeds later. I understand. There

we go. And, but there there was

one dark story that I I I need to dig into this a little

bit more because I I think I I found a a traditional

Chinese website, and the translation was not wonderful on it. I will

say. I have a lot I've got 30 to 40 instruction manuals

I can show you how to use the same place. Nice.

So there was once a a wicked man who died on the day of the

winter solstice. And after he died, he became an evil ghost and

continued to physically harm people. However, for whatever reason,

and this is where some of the the translation, I think, is lost, or at

least it's not fully explained, he had a fear of red beans.

So As do on the winter solstice. Did do. Yeah. Of course. On

the winter solstice, it became a good time to have a festival, have a feast,

I should say, and make sure that red beans are part of your diet on

that day to keep him at bay. So

so now going back to the themes we're talking about, peace, reuniting with family, and,

of course, now having a feast, boy, this sounds a lot like how we

celebrate Christmas today. And I I love that that is a 3,000

plus year old series of folklore that very much

from across the ocean on the other side of the world Right. Very much makes

us feel about feel like how we celebrate.

But, yes, then those those Europeans and Germans, they got a lot darker

than the Chinese folklore did.

So, I my favorite thing that I learned about was the

store the the tradition or the the lore about the wild

hunt. Oh, yeah. And the yes. And

that there's this, apparently, this ghostly or supernatural group of hunters

that pass, through the sky at night,

and the the hunting team might be made up of elves and

fairies and souls or spirits of the dead or the lost. And

the leader of the hunt, is frequently associated with Odin, but

there's a whole bunch of different, major god characters

that are associated with it, including sometimes the devil himself.

And, the the Mike of the Wild Hunt, which is said

to take place sometime during this month around the solstice, not necessarily on the

solstice itself, It's said to warn of a coming catastrophe

Mike a war or a plague or, at least, best case scenario, much like

a doppelganger, just the people that witness it will end up dying. So that's the

best case scenario. Also, people that happen to

be asleep while this wild hunt is going on, they might die in their sleep

having their souls pulled from their body to join the hunting hunting

team, or they might be abducted and taken to the underworld or the

fairy kingdom. Yes. Merry Christmas. Right. It's

it's amazing. And and that is from what I've heard, it's at least part of

the inspiration behind that classic dark song, Ghost

Riders in the Sky. Uh-huh. Okay. I love

that. That's cool. Yeah. I've also heard that there's on the solstice, there's in

increased activities of the Druigar, which I believe this

is Celtic, and they that translates to the again walkers,

essentially zombies as we would know them today. Alright. Yeah. So, I mean, it

really captures all sorts of fun, fun, fun stuff. I did watch the

last three episodes of the 10th season of The Walking Dead last night.

So I I did see some zombies on the solstice. There we

go. Way to get into the festive spirit, Mike. Yeah. Really, I was.

Also, the 10th season is not that good. That's

So I do have to say the solstice is, Glenn's

birthday, Steven Steven Yoon. Oh, okay. It makes sense.

Okay. Alright then. Right on, Glenn. Tying it all together.

So this is the time that the Fae might come over in

pairs to haunt us, but this is, again, a positive one, a

Celtic tradition. Fairies and groups of 2 would come into your home.

1 would hang out in the kitchen, the other by the hearth, and

they're really just there as helpers to help you celebrate the the holiday

spirit. They'd they'd stick around for about a week or so before moving back. Like

little elves. Yes. Exactly. But I I

think the a big one, Spector, to be aware of and I think this is

fascinating. I'm continuing to throw this out there in case anybody says, wait a

minute. I have had a dream like that. So during the

Yule Mike, so a a big chunk of the month of December,

really, the wandering stranger might make their presence known in

your dream. So that's where you sit on your hand?

Oh, no. Oh, different stranger. Okay.

Wandering of sorts. That's what you said on somebody else's hand. There

you go. So a middle aged man or

woman in some sort of need, whether in in your

dream, they might be cold and outside and somebody that needs

shelter or hungry or or in poverty, and this

would be some sort of a symbol to you that you need to be charitable

in one way or another as depicted in the dream. However, I do

wonder because this is ancient times. Is a middle aged person Mike Wendy,

or, you know, how does this That's a good point. Does it scale up? Right.

I'm definitely old in medieval times. Yeah.

So, obviously, yes, if you guys have had a dream

about a strange, weary, haggard

person that needs obvious help, we'd certainly wanna know and maybe take the

hint that you should be more charitable in your Mike. But, also, you can encounter

the wandering stranger while you're awake. So, apparently, between December

13th 25th, you might hear strange knocks at the

door, especially during storms or windy weather. You might

hear the door latch rattle, and you might hear a voice. But,

really, you you go to the door, there's no one there, and it said especially

if this starts to happen over and over again, you should open the door and

just literally say out loud, and the exact quote

is, may the gods who sent you come and bless this hearth.

And sometimes you'll hear tapping at the window as well on dark

nights. I I always hate that phrase, dark nights. All nights are dark. Yeah. It's

weather night. Right here. Interesting point. I mean, I guess they're not dark in

Iceland or whatever right now or There you go. Unless it's a full moon. Do

they consider it nighttime? That that's a good question for somebody that doesn't experience

darkness at night. But, yeah, you

are said to open the window and let the cold air

fill your room and, again, invite the mysterious stranger to come in and

warm themselves. And if you are

out walking on a lonely street or path and you

might see a glimpse, like, oh, wait. Somebody's over there and you look you do

a double take and they're not there anymore, that is the wandering stranger

inserting some themselves into your daily humdrum life and letting you know

that there are magical beings around you all the time. So I don't

know. I I I really do wanna throw that out there in case any of

our listeners have had incidents like this during the month of December. It might

be something from the other side. Yeah. And The Wandering Stranger,

I've also read that, staple some of the belief is that,

you know, at this time of year, the veil is thin Yes. As

similar to, like, during Samhain where the veil between the living and the

dead is as thin as it's gonna get. And I guess this time of year

is kinda like the 2nd thinnest it's gonna get. So some of the wandering

stranger theory is that the wandering stranger is actually

somebody from the other side who is kind of checking

in on things and making sure that people are behaving well.

So they'll they'll knock on the door and then ask for some food. And if

if they're denied, that's not a good thing. Yeah.

So that's one of the theories that I thought was kinda interesting. And a lot

of people have stories of incidents where a stranger

actually knocks on their door and asks for food or help with something and,

you know, at this time of year. So Yeah. Watch out for that. No. That

I mean, that that almost seems in the kind of

thing where, it's like the fairies are testing you. And if there was

a time when the people like, you talked with the wandering stranger, if people

had experiences now, but I'll tell you a time when they

probably failed that test was during,

here's also a a Christian legend that was used for

antisemitism in the middle ages in a way of they have the

story of the wandering Jew that, in particular,

there was a Jewish person. So if you guys have gone through the the Passion,

it's in every mass where and they do it on Halloween, but they go through

the stations across at a lot of different masses. But you have this thing

where, Pontius Pilate asks the Jewish people

if they should free Jesus, and they

say, no. No. Free Barabbas instead.

Forget Jesus. And then they put, you know,

Jesus to death. But there's a specific

Jewish person who taunts him as he's

going to the cross. And in the legend, it

is because he taunted Jesus on the way to the cross,

God cursed this particular person to live

forever and go from place to place and never be happy.

And so this goes back to the idea that after Cain

killed Abel, Cain was cast out of Eden, and

Cain was cursed to live forever and was never happy. So he's like the

original kind of character this came from. And so

if a Jewish person came into town that was unknown

in the Middle Ages to all these Christian towns, sometimes they would

use that, this was the wandering Jew who was cursed by

God back so long ago to be

cruel to that person. So this idea It's funny. We

talk about you need to be kind to this wandering stranger

because you are being judged. At the same time,

a less educated populace

used that kind of thing to be cruel to people who were just going

from place to place or traveling. And so this idea of

the wandering stranger, you have a dichotomy among when you think Christmas

time, this is the time to be kind. And we would think,

okay. I mean, how many times have you done something for somebody because you're Mike,

shoot. It's Christmas. Fine. You

know? Yeah. For sure. We've all done that. And at the same time, we have

this other thing where people have a religious tradition

to be cruel to people at this time of year, at the same

time. So that's just it's a double edged sword of people can use

religion for something positive in being kind, and they can use

religion for something cruel as in to discriminate someone as

to where they're from. And so it's just interesting where you come

these traditions come together, and you see the power for that could be used for

good and the power that could be used for evil at the same time. And

so I I also wanna make our our listeners aware of a,

Druid ideal that talking about spiritual energy that today,

the day we're recording this, might be the best time to try some psychic

experiments. Oh. Yes. I'm in. So

a a rush of spiritual energy is released. So this is from, the

writer, Montague Whittsell. So I just wanna give credit because I'm

reading this. What a name too. Yeah. No joke. Montague, anything,

and you're in. Montague itself. Hello. It's Mike, where can I

sign Wendy this publishing contract, mister Montague? Yeah.

A rush of spiritual energy is released at the birth of the new sun at

dawn on 22nd December. As a result of which it is believed

that spirits and ghosts become much more active for the next few days,

presenting themselves to mortals more frequently than they did before this time

period. It is during these days that ghosts of relatives and

ancestors lovers and friends usually come visiting. Then beginning on

the 26th December, all of these discarnates will begin to grow quiet

and then depart going back beyond. So for the next couple of

days, we might have more than one wandering stranger. Or, actually, they wouldn't be strangers,

but there'll be wanderers coming back from the other side to say hi. Familiars.

Yes. Keep an eye out for signs then of of familiar people.

You know, it it's just interesting that all these traditions have something to

do with, mystical things happening at this

time of year. So, you know, there's no reason that Christmas

happens in December 25th except they decided in

the early church because there's nowhere in the gospels that tells Jesus's birthday.

There's nowhere that says December 25th is the day.

So they picked it because people

already had a mystical tradition around

the solstice in this time of year. The Romans themselves always

had this party in honor of Saturn, December 17th,

of the Julian calendar, not the Gregorian calendar, which is 12 days behind or whatever.

But the, the Julian calendar, they had a big party

called Saturnalia, and it was a carnival.

They permitted gambling. Slaves were just

free at this time. I bet that was, quite the shindig. Yes.

Well, we had our own Saturday at the casino last weekend, Wendy.

Right. And people would give each other

gag gifts. Like, this was their big party time. So the

Romans where I mean and obviously in Rome, it never gets that

cold. Like, it's 60 degrees in Rome right now. I looked it up to see

if, like, they had real winter there. They don't. Let's go. I

know. Obviously, they do. I just I just saw a flight deal to Rome too

for, like, $500 round trip. Okay. I'm ready. I'm in. I'm

ready. But the thing is, so there's this party that happens where they

do they also they change up, so Mike they said the slaves were

free. Sometimes the masters would make dinner for the

slaves at this time of year. So that's a tradition that went through to

Boxing Day. I was gonna say. Yeah. And we'll talk about Mike

about how that kind of serenaded tradition has actually gone through,

to some of the customs of the 12th tide. And

so we talk about the 12th days of Christmas. Like before we said, that goes

from Christmas day into the, epiphany of

Mary on January 6th when the 3 kings show

up. And also, 3 kings is a huge

celebration in, Latin countries. Last year when I was

in, Puerto Rico during the Christmas season, like, saw the

Christmas tree, but also, like everywhere where there are huge

3 kings, Mike,

symbols, and there were statues and lights. A lot more

Magi, lights in Puerto Rico than you

usually see in the US, because the 3 kings

party is just that's that's one of the big deals down

there. And so it's this section

of the the year, the 12 Mike, the

Christmas Mike, that the Greeks have

created this monster that, you know, I'd never even heard of before a

couple weeks ago. I know. And I thought we've heard of them all. Right. Like,

I thought we discussed them all at length. I can't believe we've done goo Google

searches on Christmas monsters and just finally have heard of the

kaliqanseroy. And, you know, Scott, when you were talking about fairies and the

fae earlier, it the kaliqanseroy are

really fairy ish. Just in the fact that they're

not necessarily evil, but they are

like drunken people coming out of a bar at 2 a. M.

Into your house is how people describe

these spirits.

They're gonna pee in your garden, they're gonna tip things

over, they're gonna break furniture. They're causing a scene. Yeah. They're mischief

makers. They're like it's it's like walking past a a

pub at bar time is what the Cali concerto and I do. So

first of all, let's describe them. In some places, they're

considered like ugly, very tall beings.

They they look human Mike but they have dark complexions.

In other traditions, they're short, hairy,

red eyes, cloven hooves much like

Pan, or the The Krampus.

Or the Krampus. Yeah. Yes. Or the devil. Or the devil.

Yes. Oh, yeah. That could be We're missing the low hanging fruit here.

So they're hairy, pan like creatures in other traditions,

and they're just stupid,

basically. And some of them, they look like goblins. Yes.

They kinda have Mike a goblin head. Mhmm. What I like about it, though, is

they almost remind me of the wild hunt. Like, we talk the I mean, this

is also in the tradition of the wild hunt. These, you know,

going out, the partying, the getting crazy, the acting

wild, that's the wild hunt. That's we've talked about how the

Welsh before go with sailing kind of thing. This is the

exact same kind of tradition, except Greece is on one side of

Europe, and Wales is on the other side of Europe.

So you know what's connecting these things? Is it the

fact that people have had fairy experiences

at this Mike of year? And that's why

they're like oh, yeah. You know, we see this wild hunt.

Or we see this group of goblins running around

Greece going crazy between, and they

show up on Christmas day, and they leave on the

epiphany, 6th. So during the 12 days of Christmas, that's when

the Greeks are like, don't go out at night because you might see

the calychanserae. So, okay,

they're they're drunken louts. How do you get rid of

drunken louts, right? How do you send them home?

Stop playing music. Number 1, or you turn the lights on really

bright. Well, the thing is, I mean,

these are also traditions from when we didn't have electric lighting,

when the streets weren't lit. And, you know, I think this is interesting

because so many of these Christmas traditions specifically seem to

be about making sure kids do the right

things. You know, Santa hits himself is a whole

tradition based on making your children behave. I mean,

some people would say that's religion is,

you know Right, well ways of control of

human beings, Mike we control kids around Christmas. I

mean, I use the Elf on the Shelf. I got no shame in it.

You know? But I'm also the guy that got coal in his Christmas stocking when

he wasn't good enough. So the calychantseroy wreak

havoc at night during the dark times of

the year. So in Greece, it's I mean after the

solstice, it's still super dark outside

and when parents are saying Hey, I want you to stay

inside. What are they also saying? It's because you don't want to get picked

up by the calycanseroid or you don't want to be,

grabbed into the wild hunt. Right. Yeah. And taken on a

ride and taken to the underworld kind of thing. Yeah. And and so

they're using these kind of things to help kids stay Mike, hey, you gotta

stay inside of this dark time of year when it's most dangerous. You

know why? Because, the goblins will get you if you don't

watch out. I also like the fact that the Calycanseroy are supposedly

you know, they live in the center of the earth. Right. They're used to that

dark place, and that's why they, you know, don't wanna come out during the normal

sunnier times of the year. But, they supposedly

live down there and what they do during the rest of the year is they

chop down the world tree, which is a giant tree that's

holding up the rest of the the Earth from the inside.

And, and then when they leave during this time of

year, they return to find that the tree is fully grown back. So they

have to continue sawing away at it for the rest of the year. So that's

what those creatures were doing in the descent. Okay. Oh, yes.

Oh, man. The Descent, those blind creatures scared the crap out of

me. Yeah. If you guys have not seen that, that's the movie that really turned

Neil Marshall from, like, a cult director to where I thought he was a great

director. And now when I saw the latest Hellboy, he's back to just being

a cult director, but I still love Neil Marshall because he's made some great movies.

But you know what though? The Descent, these creatures,

these small wicked creatures under the surface,

That's the Kelly Canter Roy. That's the creatures in the descent. That's

the German Kobold, you know. That's the dwarf.

From even, I mean, Lord of the Rings where Tolkien Gollum.

Yeah. But Tolkien, you know, he was taking these legends

from Europe and kind of putting it together into a fantasy setting. He's

got the dwarves as the minds of Moria kind of thing.

So what is it about the caves that it's like there's little

people that run around inside them underneath the earth? That's

something that crosses cultures as well. For sure.

Yeah. And the calycanseroid are just part of it. And, you know, the

funny thing is is, like, how do we get rid of the calycanseroid? Well,

in Greece, some people, they keep a burning log from a thorny tree.

So they they burn a big log from a thorny tree, and that's one of

the ways. So the calycanseroy can't come through your chimney. Kinda

like Santa, except delivering presents, the calycanseroy gonna break your

furniture. So that's a tough one because you want Santa. You need, like,

a valve for your, chimney so that Santa can get in, but

the calychantsor can't. In fact, the

Christmas log in Greece is called, the scare cancellos.

So it's taken from calycanseroid cancellos, which

is calycanserolos is the, singular,

and the, scare cancellos, the name of their

actual Christmas log is from we gotta make sure the calycanseroid

can't get into our chimneys.

If you can't get a thorny log, you might burn an old shoe

because that smells bad. A handful of salt, and salt

obviously is useful for everything paranormal. Yes.

Can scare them off. Another thing people try to do is they'll put

a lower jaw of a pig inside the chimney or behind the

front door. Oh, yeah. I know. I do that all the time. Obviously.

You I no longer think you're crazy. I mean, it's just a weird quirk I

thought you had. Because Wendy was already when when she's done cutting the Christmas

ham, she cuts off the jaw, puts

the pig's head underneath. I thought everybody did

that. That's our door stopper. Yeah. Obviously. Suckling pig.

Yeah. But, you know, these are the legends of the Christmastide.

So people, since they celebrated for 2 weeks because if you were a

peasant in agriculture in the middle ages,

what do you do for 2 weeks after the solstice when there's

no sunshine? Nothing.

Yeah. You party. You know, I I can't remember. It's

one of the Malcolm Gladwell books where he talks about

how peasants in France would discuss what they did during

the winter. They would sleep the whole time because there

was nothing else there was nothing Yeah. So it's different

than the rest of the year where you have to stay up late and you

have to keep bailing the hay or do whatever you do as a peasant. But

during the wintertime, you would spend 10

hours a day sleeping. Just get cozy. Right. And

so during this specific time after Christmas where, you know, we

get we get excited when we have, like, 2 days off.

Like most companies don't even give you Christmas Eve off, do they?

True. Yeah. Or New Year's Eve. So instead you just

work on Christmas you know, you work on Christmas Eve. When I used to work

in television, there was no getting Christmas day off because the local

news still happens on Christmas day. Right. Somebody's gotta report

that. Right. They get the 2 weeks off at Christmas and

they party the whole time. And even, you know, you would go to

church for the different feast days and back in the middle

ages also, you might go to church like 3 times on

Christmas day. Wow. But it wasn't Mike

boring like church is now. Like they actually care. Well, no. I mean,

I remember being a kid being Mike, oh, god. Church is so boring. But they

were looking for a spiritual experience, and it was a different kind of

feeling. And the 12 days of Christmas, there was a reason to have

a feast almost, every one of those days.

And this is when the calycanseroy would jump around at night and things.

And here's another one of my favorite calycanseroy traditions.

If you were a child born on Christmas day, the

Calycanseroy could steal you like a fairy and make you one of

them. Jeez. Because you were Wow. Jeez.

Because you were taken away from Jesus. Yeah. You were taking away

like, you were the idea was Detracting from his celebration?

Right. You imposter. You know, I've got somebody right in my

family who was born on Christmas day or actually oh, no. Or

maybe her mom went into labor on Christmas Eve and wasn't you know, was born

right before Christmas day. But that was the first thing I thought of because I

remember we were at a party, and she's like, I'm going to labor. And then

she goes out to the hospital, and the child's born. And then that child came

back as a calychancery. No. That last

part's not true. But we don't know. We don't know.

Right? We don't know. I mean, I've seen her, but have I seen her between,

you know, the 12th night? Right. But, you know, it's it's that same kind of

thing because the Kelly cats were almost like satyrs when you think of

a, you know, the pan like character. And

Calycanser also can take human females for wives. They can seduce

them. That's also very much like a satyr.

That's all also very much pan like because Or like a fairy.

Yep. Because fairies like, hey baby, what's going

on? And it's also that stealing of children.

It's the changeling, you know? It's that, you know, we took the child off to

fairy land and we replaced it with a sickly baby. Right. Kind of

thing. The problem is girls did not get the good part

of the Kelly Canteroy unfortunately. So Bam, bam,

bam. Yeah. And that's very middle ages ish. Yes. It is. You know, that's almost

very we talk about Chinese traditions. The Chinese tradition of the one

child policy, has meant there's so many more males in

China than there are females. So when the midwife

presented the boy to the Cali Canceroid father, he offered her a

basket full of gold coins. And if he brought him a

girl, he offered her a basket full of ashes.

Ouch. Yeah. Wow. So Cali Cancer

Roy, not big on the ladies. I mean, they're big on doing it with the

ladies, not big on the lady children, on daughters.

So, you know, there's other

little kind of things that they would do, during the Christmas

season. You know, if if the goblin

finds that your home is messy during the Christmas

season, sometimes they would make it even messier. They would

they would quote unquote finish it off. They would defile

the food. They would rip the clothes on the floor to pieces, and they'd curse

the household. Oh, man. However, if they found the room clean and

tidy, they would sneak in there and they would leave

wishing it a 1,000 goods, meaning everything brings

prosperity and happiness. So maybe your children should

clean their bedrooms. Yeah. Correct. Maybe the storage

room should be cleaned during Christmas so that when the calycanseroid comes

in, he doesn't ruin the food for the rest of the cold season.

So that's the whole point is that, you gotta make sure you carry a

lit torch at nighttime in Greece or the calycansaurus

might sneak by. You gotta get your torches burning.

Alright. And, and so the, the last

day, in Greek, tephota, means the

lights. And so the day of the epiphany,

they would have a ritual that imitated a baptism that

symbolized the purification of the world. And so this is the Greek

Orthodox church now, so this isn't the Catholics like I'm used to.

But, the priest then goes around to the homes, sprinkles holy

water on everybody, and the calycanseroy flee

and they say, fly, let us fly away, for here comes the

fat priest with his holy water and his crook, and he will

sprinkle us and so defile us.

And so, and then they would run away, and they wouldn't come back

until next year. Mhmm. And so the Caly Cantyroy is just,

you know, one of the interesting stories of the Christmastide.

And when I was doing research, one of the things that I was

learning about this time of year is the feast of the innocence.

And I had never really heard about this too much as a

kid because we never talked about We're innocent? Oh. I

never was an innocent child. I never talked about King Herod.

And so a couple of days after Christmas, in the Middle

Ages, they used to celebrate this more as a as a special feast day. But

King Herod had heard that when

Jesus was born, that there would be a king of the Jews.

There would be someone who would come and replace him.

And so what he did was that he

ordered every child born in Bethlehem under the

age of 2 killed.

Yeah. And so here's in the John the Baptist

story. He goes, when Herod knew that he'd been mocked by the

Magi, in a rage, he sent murderers saying to them,

slay the children from 2 years old and under. And Mary, having heard the

children were being killed, was afraid. She took the infant. She swallowed

him, covered him up, put him in the ox stall, so she shoved him in

the in the I guess where the bison go over

to the ox. And Elizabeth, having heard they were searching for John,

took him and went up to the hill country and kept looking where to conceal

him. There was no place of concealment. And Elizabeth groaning with

a loud voice says, oh mountain of God, receive mother and child. And

immediately the mountain was cleft and received her. So I guess John the

Baptist's mother hid in the mountain. Mary hid

Jesus in the ox doll, and everybody else

got killed. Wow. So the kids born in

Bethlehem, were all massacred. And

the massacre of the innocents then is celebrated on the 28th December,

Holy Innocence Day. And it is they were considered

the first Christian martyrs. And is this

historically true? Probably not. Because if you go and

kill all the firstborn and that, you know, under 2 year old kids in a

town, obviously, we're gonna hear about it in history and this is

part of, like, Christian mythology. But so King Herod goes, they say he

killed all these kids, and the day they celebrate the kids then is on December

28th. And that's one of the

feast days where you pray for the souls of all the kids who were

killed by King Herod, after Jesus was born.

Because King Herod was told by also

the the wise men Wendy they came, when they were looking for Jesus, they

said, we we know that this this king is coming and he's gonna be

greater than you. And King Herod's like, nobody's greater than me,

so I'm gonna kill all these kids. And so Dark. That's one that's one

of the pleasant Christmas stories that happens during the 12th time. Well, first off,

I I gotta say, funny coincidence that we were talking about Mike Dabo

before he started to record because he he was the original King Herod in Jesus

Christ Superstar. Oh, sure. And so so Herod's song kind

of talks about him calling out Jesus and trying to prove himself,

before he took matters into his own hands. And,

Prince of Egypt is a really amazing animated film

that depicts what you're talking about, which is pretty heavy, dark material for an

animated Oh, yeah. Movie. But, also, it's it's, it's

stars, voices, Jeff Goldblum and Patrick

Stewart in the same cast. So right there, you gotta watch it. Love it. And

it's Steve Martin, Martin Short. So it has a it's a I'm not, you

know, super into the religious film world, but Prince of Egypt was a really

well done animated film. That's cool. Prince of Egypt was a a

great movie. I thought the animation was great on it, and it it does the

same kind of thing. We talk about the firstborn being killed. It does the whole

thing from the 10 Commandments or whatever, which is Passover

and the idea that when you put the you put the lamb's blood on the

door and then God will not kill your kids. So he didn't kill

the Jewish kids, he just killed the Egyptian kids. That's what it was. And so

Passover and so the prince of Egypt does that really well. It shows that very

effectively. And funny enough, a musical connection,

Metallica was all partying 1 night Mike an Easter Sunday, and they were watching

the Ten Commandments. They were on tour. And, as they were

Metallica's watching the Ten Commandments. Let's pause for a second for that. So

they're on tour. They're all watching the 10 Commandments, probably drinking beers. And,

as they're watching it, you get to the scene with the the the

smoke coming through the Egyptian town, and

then you see the lamb's blood on the Jewish doors, and

the smoke goes past them, and then it goes into the Egyptian

homes and kills the firstborn. And Cliff, the bass player of

Metallica, goes, dude,

creepin' death. Yeah. So their song creeping

death their song creeping death off of the

album, Mike the lightning is based on

Passover and the idea of God killing the firstborn.

And in fact, that's Mike that it's a lyrics to the song. He's Mike,

Wendy of Goshen. And he talks about

lamb's flood tasting door, I will pass. And so even,

Metallica sings about that whole idea from

that. And so God is not the Christian

God, the Judeo Christian God, He is not opposed to murdering

babies. Yeah. Old Testament style. He's down.

Right. Old Testament is a He is a jealous and angry God.

But another cool tradition that I learned about when I was looking for the legends

of the Yuletide is on the Isle of Man. And

the Isle of Man is kinda we're kinda getting to Wicker Man territory, and we're

talking about that area. And so Saint Stephen's Day,

on the 26th December, also Boxing Day, we were talking about

how the roles are reversed and then the

servants get presents on Boxing Day because the rich people, the

aristocrats get presents on the 25th. But

Saint Stephen's, the 26th December, on the Isle of Man, they

have a renpole much like the

maypole for the summer solstice.

Mhmm. So then they have the renpole. And

so then they have a Wren day in Ireland too, but on the Isle of

Man, everybody dances around the pole. And so

there's a song, called Hunt the Wren,

and they sing the song, and it's based on this story. Many

years ago, there came to Ireland a beautiful woman of the fairy people.

She went all through the land, and wherever she appeared, she put a enchantment

on the men by her beauty and her wonderful attractive

powers that they won and all left their work and their homes to

follow her. When she had them all collected in this way, she led them

across an apparently shallow ford and a wide river. She

herself went across almost dry shod, so she didn't get wet.

But when her followers attempted the fording, the river rose in fury

and drowned nearly all of them. Upon this, the survivors, brought to their

senses by the disaster, gave chase to the woman, seeking vengeance upon

her, but she, laughing in mockery, changed herself in the shape of a wren Wendy

flew away. Some say that this particular wren was the first to be

hunted, killed, and carried around for exhibition, others that the

actual witch woman escaped, but it's generally believed to be the memory of

the event that the wren is hunted and carried annually. And

the hunt of the wren happens on Wendy

December. And it's funny because the story about the hunt of the wren is also

very similar. We're just talking about Prince of Egypt and the Ten Commandments. It's

Moses going into the Red Sea, and the the Jewish people get

across. But when the Egyptians follow them, Moses lets the sea go back

down and drowns them all to death Yeah. Much like she

did to these men who left their wives and their

work and followed her because they're like, Who's that sexy lady?

And they follow her and then they all get drowned in the river.

Wow. And so, they had this tradition then

of dancing around the wren pole, much like the maypole.

And people also think that if you go back in history,

they'll have sacrificed a woman Mike the

wren, much like you would have sacrificed the May Queen.

So we're going back then and we're doing that traditional thing

of you sacrifice something It's Mary

burning a goat to death It's people doing a sacrifice

of the May Queen to have a better New Year you know, around

the solstice. It's all these, you know, this idea that you sacrifice something

so then the gods will grant you their favor.

And, they still do the dance on the Isle of

Man, on St. Stephen's Day every year, and it's much

like the Maypole. So I thought that was interesting because I'd never heard of that

before. And because we you know, we're all used to, like, the 12 days

of Christmas is just a song. Mhmm. Also a

song that started in Milwaukee. What was that song? I

didn't know that. Yeah. So it it didn't start in Milwaukee. Right. But the

United States, like the reason we sing it in the US, it

was kind of a lost Christmas carol, was because there

was a teacher in Milwaukee and she was having some

kind of Christmas pageant. Emily Brown, who was

a teacher at the Downers Teacher College back in the early 1900s,

she was an anglophile and she took frequent summer trips to England.

And then one time she goes to England, and she's looking at an old bookshop

in Oxford, and she finds a manuscript containing the

lyrics and music to the 12 days of Christmas. She brings

it home because she wanted something special for her Christmas pageant,

that they were holding in Milwaukee. And she sings the 12 days of Christmas,

and it becomes an American tradition after it

was already kinda lost to history in England.

She brings it back. It becomes an American tradition then. And then a couple years

later, somebody else adds the 5 golden

rings to kinda mix it up. So

The hook. Yeah. So the fun thing is the 12 days of Christmas,

it is now like something where I just went to a Christmas in

lights kind of thing a couple weeks ago and they had the 12 days of

Christmas, and they had all of the Mike

5 golden rings, they had lights of the rings, You know, the 12

calling birds or whatever it is. They had everything. And then I was

watching people sing the whole thing. Like, they were

taking YouTube videos, whatever, them singing the whole thing over and over. Like, groups of

people were coming through and doing it. And the idea that somebody from

Milwaukee did it was exciting to me, the Old Town Pride that brought it

back. And then once the Muppets covered it, it was ubiquitous. It

was all over. It was all over. So that was kinda fun.

But the thing is that they had this song about the 12 days of Christmas

and that people partied, you know, during that Mike, and there was

a reason to have a feast almost every single day for the 2

weeks. And then Shakespeare of course wrote the 12th night,

which is about also the 3 kings festival, and the

last night before the epiphany, where people would, you know, go

back to living their normal lives and Mike, okay, Mike, we're gonna

be going back to normal after the Christmas season. So,

this merry Mike that happened. And my

favorite part about the 12th night though is the last end of the party

is that going back to the tradition of Saturnalia,

where, the roles are reversed,

you have somebody called the lord of misrule.

Oh, man. So the lord of misrule is he presides

over the feast of fools, and he's a peasant

to be in charge of the Christmas revelries, which includes drunkenness

and wild partying. I think we found your Halloween costume for

next year. Right. Which I thought the feast of fuels would just be a whole

bunch of, peanut brittle in cans. Oh,

nice. So, you know, they continue this tradition of Saernania, and don't forget

that Britain, of course, was a Roman colony. You know, the the Romans

had taken over the Hadrian's Wall and everything like Mike. And so

they continued this tradition. They appoint this guy the lord of

misrule. In Scotland, he's called the abbot of unreason,

which is easy. I want that business card. Right. Hello.

I am the abbot of unreason, and I'm gonna party over the

face of fools with you.

And it just sounds like a great time. But the thing is so

it's a job to have this drunken revelry much like

the, calycanseroy, you know, much like the

Saturnalia. And all of these traditions come together. It

seems like no matter where you're from, people are doing the same type of things.

And the Wassailing, that group of people dressed up as those

creepy Welsh skull horses, you know?

Wesalants, we call them. Nice. Wesalants. They're riding around. The

mummers are going to places, and they're saying Yeah. Give us a drink.

Or, you know, they'll sing sing songs. We'll sing you a, you know, until you

give us a drink. Give us a sticky pudding now. Right. And that goes back

to the wild hunt, this group of people going crazy. That's the calycanseroy.

And you have these traditions go from England to

Greece, you know, to all over Europe, it's the same type of

thing. And that's what I think is really interesting about these traditions of the 12th

Mike is that, yes, these things may have started in

Rome, and they may continue, and they get felt over again

into the Norsemen and then to the UK

and then all over, Europe. You have the same Mike

of things of these parties during Christmas Mike, and I think

we need to bring that back here. Absolutely. Well, it's

funny that that as you're talking about the wassailors, the assailants, that

that's made me think of trick or treating. Yeah. It's Mike, you know, give me

something or, you know I'm gonna egg your house. Exactly. Smash your pumpkins.

I the other reason is a drink. What?

Give me a drink. I'll I'll trick you. It it's

continuing to, though, you know, have that that interesting

correlation between this time of year and Halloween.

And because there were, there were legends of the horned god in Wiccan and,

LaVey and satanist traditions that said the horned god dies

on Halloween and is reborn on the solstice.

So the continuing to link those 2, times together.

Mhmm. Right. And what is the horn god but a big calychatserai?

There we go. So Or a Krampus.

Right. And so all these traditions seem to have a similar kind of thing. So

however you guys decide to celebrate your Christmastide,

I'd suggest doing a wild hunt like I plan.

Either way, we're gonna talk about these kind of things at our Patreon

hangout. We're gonna talk more about our Patreon hangout right after we get

to the song this week. We wanna thank Scott Marcus for joining us

today. And if you haven't heard it yet, Scott has a

relatively new podcast, which I think you might enjoy if you enjoy

stories. And, Scott, maybe you can tell us more about that. But you do have

an episode that even features our own, Mike Huberty. Yeah. Actually, I I I couldn't

wait too long. Episode 2 features Mike Huberty. So this is

a podcast called the Fantastic Story

Society, and it's about you know, we tell some scary stories in it, but it's

really it's about the art of telling the story. So we talked to to

researchers, some of we have some overlapping guests. Like, you

guys have Jeff Blanger on, and I had him on as well, except for us.

We talked more about, like, what his philosophies as a storyteller are.

And, so I I think it's a a unique way to cover the same

type of topic, but from different viewpoints. So start with my episode, but

you'll even like the rest. Yeah. Yes. And where can I

find that, Scott? On iTunes. And, actually, if you just go

to my website, I link to all the individual episodes. So what's your ghost story

dot com is always your one stop shop. Alright. Thanks for joining us

today with your solstice Thank you. Knowledge.

When you're thinking about the songs this week for Christmas, when we're talking

about the Cali Canceroid, what can you picture a bunch of

drunken yobs wandering around a pub singing except

for I saw 3 ships come sailing?

Because this is the kind of call and response party song

that seems to be perfect for the kind of antics

that go around the 12th tide. And here is

I Saw 3 Ships.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

Mike. See you on the other side. Well, I'm gonna see

3 ships on, our next Patreon hangout,

the last one of the year. Mike, you might be seeing 6 by the end

of it. I was actually, I'm hoping to. I'm hoping that we'll sail with

you. Actually, it'll be the last Patreon hangout of this

decade. Oh. Wow. How about that?

Yeah. At, 2015 came in like a lamb,

and it's leaving like a wet fart.

Wow. And if that doesn't make you wanna join our hangout, I don't know. There's

a holiday cheer. But, yes, the Patreon hangout

is coming up soon. So stay tuned patreons. Keep an eye out on our

Facebook group and also in your patreon emails. We'll be

announcing the date and time of that. And if you're curious about it

and you'd like to you're not a Patreon member, you can join. There's still time.

You can join, and you can learn about some of the other weird traditions at

this time of year. Oh, yeah. There there is some some other

bizarre, beings, mythical beings, I guess you would say, from

again, still from Europe. It's very dark up there. They get really twisted.

So from Poland and and the upper German areas, there are some

other really bizarre beings I wanna talk about today. We just didn't have time, but

we will cover it Yes. When we all gather for a Patreon hangout.

That's right. So if you wanna be part of that, Mike, how do they do

that? They can just check that out at otherside podcast.com/

donate, and we wanna hear about your Christmas traditions

as well and the kind of fun stuff you do in 12th Mike. You know,

one of the most fun things between a a Polish things is that

we always do communion bread, at

my family's Christmas, and then we call it I'm sorry. We

call it A what? A potka. I can't speak the Polish phrase, but we

call it a potka. And you break the communion bread, you pass it

around, and that was the one thing we did before we always opened our presents.

And we did that every Christmas Eve, and I even made my

girlfriends who came, like, oh, you gotta you have to eat the bread with

my 90 year old aunt or whatever as a matriarch of the family.

And little traditions that are

interesting and fun, and sometimes they're supernatural, sometimes they're

not, but they always are great about bringing people together. And we wanna hear about

your traditions because we're always looking for new ones to talk about on the show.

And the tradition we're starting here, every episode of

the See You on the Other Side podcast, is to thank doctor

Ned, who's at the Patreon level where he gets a shout out in every

single episode. Ned is an executive producer of See You on the Other Side,

and he helps make all this fun stuff possible.

Thank you, Nad. And thank you to all of our Patreons for,

well, number 1, caring enough to show us some kind

of financial support, but number 2, engaging with us on our Facebook

group and telling us what you think of the songs and sending us story

suggestions. Yes. Thank you all so much for listening. We're really honored to be part

of your playlist, and we appreciate you're taking the time to listen to us.

Have a wonderful week.

Now bring me some figgy pudding. I'm bringing it right now. I was wanting

to kinda I was trying to set you up for Mike a It's something. Thank

you everybody. Have a good week. Oh, okay. The other reason

is a drink. What? Give me a drink or

or trick you?