Welcome back to the continuation of our webinar discussion with our panel of astute guests: Adam Rossen, Craig Goldenfarb, and Ken Hardison, with your host Jay Berkowitz.

In part 2 Adam Rossen shares a candid look back at his journey from a partnership stagnated by the absence of strategic marketing to a thriving business bolstered by engaging with various mastermind groups. We'll peel back the curtain on the operational techniques of these masterminds, including Ken's role in a group providing coaching, video training, and collaborative support. Bring the conversation full circle with a round of Q&A’s.

Get ready to take rigorous notes as we examine the importance of vetting, action-taking, feedback, and goal celebration within these inner circles of growth and excellence.

Book your FREE strategy session with Ten Golden Rules: https://calendly.com/jay-tengoldenrules/strategy-session?month=2024-04

Key Topics

• 03:58 Ken Hardison - Learning and sharing in effective consulting sessions.
• 15:29 Commit to quarterly goals, hold ourselves accountable.
• 20:52 Adam Rossen - Joined multiple masterminds, benefited from diverse groups.
• 29:50 Adapting to challenges, leadership during uncertain times.
• 49:21 Jay dives into Q&A’s
• 51:30 Balancing work and professional development for lawyers.

About Ken Hardison:

There’s nothing theoretical about Ken Hardison’s success as an attorney. He built not one but two multi-million-dollar law firms before selling them at age 52.

Today, Hardison runs the Personal Injury Lawyers Marketing and Management Association to help lawyers create the practice of their dreams AND be accountable for that success.

About Adam Rossen:

Adam Rossen is a pioneering marketing leader renowned for his innovative strategies and vigorous advocacy for mastermind groups. His forward-thinking approach emphasizes collaboration and idea exchange to drive success, evident in his remarkable growth of Rossen Law Firm. By fostering a culture of continuous learning and mutual support, Rossen has propelled both his team's professional development and the firm's standout performance in a competitive legal landscape.

About Craig Goldenfarb: 

Craig Goldenfarb’s firm has recovered over $1 billion for its clients, and he gives back to the legal community with a premier event: 7 Figure Attorney Summit.

Attorneys who connect with Goldenfarb and his events learn the secret formulas for profitable law firm success, from individual contributors to the executive team. 

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a digital marketing strategist with decades of experience in the industry. As the CEO of Ten Golden Rules, he has helped countless law firms and businesses harness the power of the internet to achieve remarkable growth and visibility. Jay is also a renowned keynote speaker and author, sharing his expertise at various industry events and publications worldwide.

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and sometimes I've found that when somebody has no idea who you are or what's going on, once you kind of explain, they might have something that's so different from the group. Were so out of the box that you kind of just stop and look and you go, wow, that's brilliant. And I don't know if you would have said that to me if you actually knew me, you know, or if we had this relationship. So there's definitely pros and cons to both and both. Both different styles have worked for me.

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast, featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now, here's the founder and CEO of 10 golden rules, Jay Berkowitz.

Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever time you're listening to this podcast. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms. My name is Jay Berkowitz. And this is part two of a two part episode featuring the All Stars of the legal mastermind community. This is an audio recording from our live streaming webinar. And we've got some awesome experts. Craig Goldfarb. He runs the seven figure attorney Summit, Ken Hardison from filma built and sold to law firms, runs the Pillman masterminds and the filma conference I'll be speaking at in coming up this May. And finally, we've got someone who's is like a case study, Adam Rossen has built a huge agency. And he gives a ton of credit to his mastermind groups. Now, I just want to tell you very quickly about our live event coming up April 25, and 26th. It's called tgr live growth strategies for law firms. We have over a dozen of the top legal speakers in the world. We're going to cover topics like artificial intelligence, law, firm technology, culture, how to build millions of social media followers, and Instagram and YouTube views. It's going to be totally fun and interactive. Hope you can join us we got a great list of people, there's not a lot of spots left. As a matter of fact, I think the hotel is almost sold out. So go to 10 Golden rules.com For more information, and best of all, on Thursday night. So it's a two day conference April 25 and 26th. Thursday and Friday, Thursday night, we're gonna have a big party to celebrate 10 Golden Rules 20th anniversary, so go to tangled news.com For more information, we'd love to see you at the event. So without further ado, let's get into today's podcast. If you like the content from today, it doesn't matter which order you listen to to because we've got three speakers and a q&a section all about masterminds. But if you want to flip back to episode number 86. Now for part one, you could do that. Or you can listen to this part and go back to part one. It's all up to you. So without further ado, here's the power of legal masterminds. So I guess I met Ken Hardison when I first went to filma, and there's a couple of filma events, but the big one is coming up in May, and we'll be participating, I'll be speaking and we have a booth and it's a really fantastic multipronged educational event. Ken's known as the millionaire maker has over 30 years of legal experience and built and sold two of his own seven figure law firms as written best selling books like systematic marketing. And the film a live events offer cutting edge techniques, tons of marketing, there was tons of AI at the last one, some great AI presentations, some great presentations on running your law firm and motivating staff and keeping staff. And then tilma also offers masterminds at different levels. And I think that was a great point that Greg brought up that you know, the masterminds when you really want to be in a mastermind around your level and around your size. So Ken, do you want to run your slides? Or do you want me to share your slides,

but either way you will? And finally the way so why is Why is getting up there? I will tell you, I'm really very good job. Greg has always yelled at our masterminds, I actually, everybody has do application. And one thing is, I think if you're going to be in like when it just PLR years you need it needs to be market exclusive. And that's one thing that we do, plus because you want everybody to be free flowing when information and not hold back. Another thing I do is I got three I have six mastermind groups, but I got three different levels. I got one under 2 million in revenue, because like Greg says, most of the people under to me, they're just trying to figure out how to get cases and not work 80 hour weeks. And then I got two to 10 million in revenues. And then they're they're in a different place and then over 10 million. So I got three of those over 310 Over 10 million in revenues. I got two to date and I got one and somehow it's funny. I've seen them grow between, they start out at the lower level that they go to the medium, medium, and then they go to the eight figure group. It's what I call, man. But anyway, so I've been a mastermind since 1998. He stole all this. I mean, I don't want to bore you. So what is the mastermind? And I think Craig really hit that very well, he got to the next slide. Basically, I think they were there was different ways of working on something, we use hot seats. The way I do, man is number one, I make you fill out a form that tells me I want you to know your numbers. So before you can you bring, I don't ask you how much you're actually making, because some people kind of funny about telling exactly what their deal is. But what I do I say what percentage of your gross income is spent for staff? What percentage of gross income is spent for attorney compensation? What percentage is spent for marketing? And what is your net profit? Because I think you got it every time we meet three times a year, I want you to do that. But one thing about my masterminds that are a little bit different is that when we're not we meet three times every four months, and then we have our summit that they get to come to for free and bring some money. But during the months that we're not doing, I have trainings, by experts, not necessarily me. Like the last, like last month, we did one on how to increase your average fee. And then we had another one that Pareto principle. And this is stuff I know, Greg knows, because I learned a lot of stuff from Chad Dudley, and Mickey love, and the people down at Vista consulting, which is a very good consulting firm. But the way I do mine is I have as many as 16 law firms in it. And we get together and us for two days, and they get anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to share what's been working in marketing and management. What's not been working in market and management since the last meeting, then whatever in a little hot seat, what challenges are you have on an error? Or is this something that you've thought about doing but you don't know and kind of get feedback? And like they say it's like having a mini board of directors? I think the facilitator is very important. I've been in mastermind since 96. Myself, and I still are still in masterminds have nothing to do law. It's just entrepreneurs. But you know, I think that you want that feedback. Well, I guess what I'm saying from the other ones there. But also, I try not to make it the kid horison show and I could because I know most of the answers right to start with, but the deal is, that's not what you're there for. A good facilitator is like a good referee, you'd ever know, he's there. You know, I mean, until you always need it, I really believe that. But I think the other great thing about masterminds is it's kind of like a subtle accountability, because you know, you got to show up to the meeting, because you're paying a lot of money for it. And if you got to show up, you got to have your stuff together. And it's kind of like peer pressure. And I think it's just, you know, it's a lot cheaper and a lot quicker to learn from other people's successes and their failures. I don't like to use the word failure. I like to use the word learning experiences, but I really do.

But I think the friendly accountability and all that you know, and then on top of our group, we also have intake training every month, we have marketing roundtables and management roundtables for your staff. And we have a magazine we put out every month got about 4050 pages. And, and we have a list of like blog he built you were talking earlier about Facebook or whatever. We actually do a listserv, we do one for general membership, we do one just for that mastermind group. So here's another thing too. I interview every person, they have to fill out application. And I don't let everybody in and they get really surprised, because they think I'm gonna try to sell it to him. But the deal is some people are not ready for it. I got a gold membership that I think it's more like coaching courses and things like that video trainings and different things. And I think is better sometimes, because I don't want them to, you know, the waste of money. But also, I had a guy asked me, he says, Well, no, I qualify. I said, Yeah, he said, Well, you got to interview me acid, because I don't want to assholes in my group. Just to be honest with you, and I used to do what Craig was saying, everybody could veto it, but I have too much politics in there. I'm pretty good judge of character and I have kicked some people out over the years. You know, either because they weren't sharing or because they just tried to take over the thing and the It's supposed to be collaborative, not not a one man show. But I think you got to be humble, and have humility and being open minded. And I tell people, if they don't have that, and if they're not an action taker, if they just sit there and listen, and do nothing, then you're wasting your money. Because you can get, you'd had the 20 best ideas in the world. If you don't implement them, they're just pipe dreams. I mean, I'd rather have one good idea that will implement. So I think, you know, Lily, as you get started where you're at, I do disagree in in, Greg, I think I don't see me could still be in it. Because I've got several people that started out better to me. And in their in eight figure group, now they're doing over $10 million in revenues. And I think they got there a lot quicker because they started out in a mastermind group, and case studies now now I got a couple of a mastermind Members, we're here today, or have been in one of my so here, here's a case study. So this is this is what I say this is kind of like my poster child, I guess, Matt Newman. He used to come to him out of seminar seminars every year, we're doing, you know, the Super Summit. And he was doing $300,000 in revenue. And and what am I people we're trying to get him to join the mastermind. And eight Kenenisa kid, you know, I trust uses. You know, when you people you're trying to get a job, and I said, Well, here's the deal. I said, you know, if you're willing to do what it takes, yes, that's a symbol of so small. I said, every law firm unless they inherited from their father or mother started this where you started in the solo with two employees do with, you know, two or 300,000 hours a year? You know, I mean, before you I practice law, I made 38, gross 38,000 miles and that 1883. So, you know, but it came here, but now there Matt is. He's a hard worker. He's smart. Any any, he takes action. And as potent, yet he's humble. So that's why I think you know, it can work for anybody. And this is somebody that was with a bigger firm, they had about four or five lawyers. But they had never really done any marketing really know anything. And they all got big cases by referrals. And he joined us and in two years, he went from signing up 165 injury cases a year to 500 without spending any more money on its marketing. And I thought that was probably like the best I've ever seen. And I'll take a little bit of the credit for it. But I think a lot of it is owed to being in his people. There it is for him to buy. I'm Joe DeWitt, which is in Orlando and Greg, you know this, he's in one of the toughest markets, Jay, you know, to the A's, but maybe not the toughest, but one of the Tirpitz because you've got Dan Lew with Morgan and Morgan. Of course, Morgan Morgan deal, right. But they weren't always. But he went from saying that five cases a month over 50 to two years, and he isn't there, no TV at all. You know, they have a great budget, but he did have some budget. And he was doing nothing but domestic law and decided he wanted to do PLR. Okay.

So I wrote a book, and this text the book might not be working today. So I will put you can go to pill Mala. org and download it. That's PIO, MMA dot orgy. That's our website and download the book. If you want a written copy, if you want a hard bound, I'll mail it to you if you email info@filmer.org In the spirit, mm book mastermind book, and I wrote this book because I felt like there was a lot of confusion out there at one time, maybe not as much now. But when I wrote the book, there was a lot of people that were calling her stuff masterminds, when they weren't they were coaching courses, or something else. I mean, you know, and a true mastermind is what Craig describe what Jay described, and what I described, is getting a small group of people together that shares, you know, the good and the bad and the ugly, and it's there to help you. And there's been some great friendships created over the years. And I'm in two different wars myself, one with a bunch of entrepreneurs that like coaches, like the coach, dealers, you know, music teachers, chiropractors, all over the world dentist, and we get together twice, just twice a year. But anyway, I've been in them all my life. I think they helped me grow grow my law firms. I wasn't, I was when one with Dan Kennedy who is a marketing guru, some of you might know about him. Also Jay Abraham. I was in Wharton with him. And then I've got So I've just finished one with grazioso skates, the big term marketer jumped in and all my life, I really believe in it. Of course, I'm a continual learner. I mean, I tend to buy too much stuff probably sometimes, but I just know that the mastermind, probably more than anything else helped me. And I enjoy that facilitate and be honest with you. But, anyway,

yeah, Ken, that's awesome. And, you know, look, guys, it's no surprise, two very successful case study so far. And both of them stated their lifelong learners and gave us a ton of examples of courses they've bought, and Masterminds they've been in both are in multiple masterminds. And can can, I'm not surprised you're with Dan Kennedy, and Jay Abraham, I mean, those almost everybody who's super successful, either state Kennedy Abraham or Tony Robbins, or, and a couple of things that I took from your talk, you know, your masterminds meet three times a year, that's the same model that my my main masterminds currently and in the past, and made for two days, but again, very consistent, maybe flying on a day of dinner, and then made for two days, and maybe, you know, can fly out on day two, the Know your numbers. There's a great mastermind that I I speak at called MNL. that's run by Lee Coleman. And they have a great numbers group, as well. So what's your percentage, gross of your staff, your attorney compensation, your net profit. And so the focus on numbers has been super valuable for us in our group. And the the attorneys who are participate in that financial group say that's, that's really the most important for some of them, to contributing to their success, that you see where your numbers are at and where everybody else's numbers. And I think one of the things we haven't said is that most masterminds carry some sort of exclusivity for your market. So for most of the illegal ones that can I guess that's the case with your group that, you know, if somebody's from a certain state, or at least a DMA, there's nobody directly competing with them in the room. So everybody can share their numbers, and everybody shares openly and honestly, I love the piece about accountability. And one of the things our group does is, we all we all state our goals for the next four months. And if you achieve your goal, you commit to something you're going to do to celebrate and someone bought a plane, someone bought a pool for his family, someone bought a red Corvette, I took a VIP vacation with my family, when we hit the quarterly goal. And then we all state something we're going to do if we don't hit our quarterly goal, sometimes it's a donation to the political party, our opposing political party, but we all commit to those things, we come together at the end of the four months, and we we hold ourselves accountable to what we committed to. And then the last thing you said is, you know, some people don't take action. And that's, you know, we always hear it like, Oh, these masterminds don't work or that, of course, doesn't work. But these are always the people who don't take action. Can what's one of the things you've learned about the guys who do take action? How do they do that? Like, how do they make it happen?

Yeah, you know, is focused on discipline. I mean, here, you ain't got to be the smartest guy in the room. But, you know, I created this thing, and I teach it. It's kind of like pouring EOS. But it's a skeleton, sort of our coach, which is usually for guys, dude over to me and but, but the deal is quarterly planning, easily pick two or three projects, they call them rocks in the US. And I tell my group, they ever pick over three projects, but then fill out a paper that says, what, who and when for every task for that project, and then give somebody ownership of that project and hold them accountable. You don't mean that you got to be accountable, you at least got to make somebody else accountable, but hold them accountable and then get them to hold everybody else tell about accountability, and then set that what you want to do. And then you know, kind of lay it out like building a house, right? You got to build a floor, put the stairs up, you got put the healer, the healer, then you put the sheet rocker beat up the atrium. But I think that's what it comes down to focus and discipline. And I think another thing is grit. We had a guy kept talking about Viet one time, that didn't write the book, but we'll fly like the other study or whatever. And they've done studies on this. The smartest people are like the most successful people. It's the people that don't give up, persevere and get shit. Just to be honest with you. I never was the sharpest pistol in the room, but I had great grit. And I just never looked at something like that. We can't do this math figures. How can we get around this or this earlier this year? I never would give up.

I love it. That's very well said. Well, thank you so much and great as always. And without further ado, I'm going to pull up. Adam slides. And, again, Adam, thanks for jumping in for Ben and, and also we were looking as concurrently we're looking for someone who is a success story and doesn't run a mastermind. So Adams had a real tremendous growth he shared with me over the last five or six years, when he started in the masterminds. He's the CEO and founder Rossen Law, leader in law firm management and marketing at the firm. They've had tremendous growth, as I said, over the last five or six years, he has a deep belief in the efficacy of masterminds. And he's also the visionary of his firm. And they're also running EOS for the last three or four years.

All right, first of all, hi, everybody. And Thanks, Jay. Thanks, Craig. And can you know, I'm honored to share the stage with you guys, as being you know, a last minute replacement for Ben and I do want to give Ben a shout out, I hear he's doing really well. So Ben, if you are listening, you know, keep up the good work. I know he, he's already wanting to get back to work right away in classic bend style. But um, you know, and really, I wouldn't be here, if it wasn't for a lot of my mentors and friends that I've met through all three of the different groups that Craig laid out, through people I've met at seminars to people I've met through coaching and people I've met through masterminds. And Ben's group was the very first group that I joined back in 2016, or 2017. And so Ben has been a friend, a mentor, you know, just I mean, you know, I owe a lot to Ben and what he's done with his programs. So, before I do, go and start, I do want to follow up with what, what Ken ended with. You know, at our firm, we have five core values. And we've identified that core values number three, and five are really our two biggest and core value. Number three is take action. And I get these questions all the time. You know, Adam, you came out of nowhere, you know, how'd you grow? And I'm like, well, we just we take action, we're, we're disciplined. We're not afraid to fail. And we just try things and move forward. Because I've been at so many conferences over the years, or masterminds where I see people and I'm like, Hey, did you work on that? No, why not? Well, you know, blah, blah, and it's excuse after excuse after excuse. And that's why they haven't grown their firm. And can the other thing Ken said, was grit, which is actually our fifth core value? It's called get to yes. And that is the embodies grit and embody, it embodies perseverance, we just call it get to yes, and yes, and so Ken's absolutely right on those two things. So who am I? Right? So I'm, I'm the visionary behind the Ross and law firm. And one great thing that Craig does at his at his seminars, which I'm going to be at the one in Boston in April. So if anybody's going, I'd love to meet you there. But the two other ones that I've been to, he always starts off with kind of the continuum of on this end, you are the do everything attorney, and on this end, you are the CEO, and you know, zero to 100. And where are you in that continuum? And I remember every time he does it, well, every year I've gone further and further along more to law firm CEO. So that's really what I'm doing. Now. I have not had my own caseload since about September of 2021. Now, I'm not quite where Craig is yet where I'm at that 100 level all day, every day. And that CEO, you know, Rainmaker kind of role, I'm still involved in a lot of other aspects of the firm, but every quarter really more of every year, I try to eliminate one or two things that I'm involved in. So as we've moved that forward, I'm moving along on the continuum. And so who are we Eros in law firm, we're a criminal defense firm. And, you know, most most criminal defense lawyers nationwide, I'd say, I don't know probably 99.9% of them are that solo attorney, the I would say maybe a Better Call Saul or an Lincoln Lawyer type of vibe solo attorney with a trusty sidekick. And what we've done at Ralston law firm is we are one of the largest in Florida and one of the largest now in the country. And we're trying to take the you know, make bring suits to criminal defense, you know, more of that team that power, right. Of course, I don't think we're nearly as exciting because we don't have all the drama that they do in the show. But really just try to make sure that we have that powerful team know that that medium to large feel and power with kind of still that the downhome solo communication and values and that's really what we're doing in our firms mission is we help good people and bad things happen so they can achieve their best future. So now here's a picture of me speaking on stage at I think one of the GLM, Great Legal Marketing events and this is an action shot of me with The clicker I think I'm doing a pretty good job with the clicker in this photo. But, you know, embracing masterminds in 2019 changed really everything about my business. And it's more than just masterminds. It's everything that Craig said, dating back to about 2016. And I had my firm since 2008. And it was me and a partner. We were prosecutors together, we were roommates, we were best friends. But from Oh, eight to 15. We, we never grew, we never it was me and him and no staff. And we didn't invest in marketing we didn't invest in in Business and Management and Masterminds or any of those things. And when he decided to split with me in 2015, that's really when I learned about this entire world out there. So for me, masterminds definitely took it to the next level. But even before then it was more of the seminars and the coaching groups that I joined. Now, I want to talk about some of the transformative journeys that we've had and give some specific examples. But before we do, these are a few different groups, you know, masters, mastermind specific groups that I've been in. So I've been in GLM for years and years, and that's they have the coaching aspect, and then they have the mastermind aspect. And that was the first mastermind that I joined. And then I've also been in the maximum layer guild, which is run by Tyson nutrix. And then Jim hacking to other you know, great friends of mine and mentors, the mastermind experience, which is run by John Fisher, Windy City mastermind that's run as well, by Mario Godoy and out of Chicago. And then last two years, I joined EO, which is the entrepreneur organization. And I love that group, because that's all entrepreneurs. And there are some lawyers in it. And the lawyers that are in it globally, have kind of made our own little subset group and our own mastermind group out of that. So I just joined that group. And that group has been amazing, because we have lawyers in Guatemala and Mexico, and some people that are doing some really cool and crazy things. But all of these different masterminds have have been great and have benefited me in a variety of different ways. And one of the main things that I can touch on that I don't think Kreger can did was some of the most of the masterminds have a platform where you pay X amount, and you're committed for the year, and it's the same group of people. And some of the other masterminds like maximum lawyer and the mastermind experience and Windy City, they're run it a little differently, where it's more of the Pay As You Go model, there might be 100 people in the group, but only 20 People go to each mastermind. And then instead of being committed for the entire year, you can just come and go as you please. And look, there's pros and cons to both, I wouldn't say one's better than the other, they're just a little different. When you are fully you know, when you pay a certain amount for an entire year, well, then you should be and most people are fully committed to make every single meeting. And there's a lot better continuity between the meetings in between the members, because there's less reintroduction when you're if you're on your hot seat, you don't have to give that whole spiel of this is my firm, and this is how the firm operates and blah, blah, blah. And people can also see your progression through you know, every quarter or if it's trial annually, they between the meetings, they can see your progression and really get to know you better. So that's one of the things that I really love about those masterminds. But then again, you know, as as we in our life and things certain change, I know, for me, one of the things that I've liked is I've done some of the kind of come, you know, pay as you go, you know, type of masterminds as well, you get to meet new people. And depending on schedules, right, I have a four year old and a one year old. So, you know, Adam now in 2014, and 2020 4am, i My time is a little different and a little limited than it was when I was in, you know, 2016 to, you know, 2020. Right. And so there's definitely pros and cons. And sometimes I've found that when somebody has no idea who you are or what's going on, once you kind of explained, they might have something that's so different from the group, were so out of the box that you kind of just stop and look and you go, wow, that's brilliant. And I don't know if you would have said that to me if you actually knew me, you know, or if we have this relationship. So there's definitely pros and cons to both and both times both different styles have worked for me it just really depends on kind of what's going on in my life and the business at that time.

Now, as we go into some of the masterminds, and suddenly I wanted to highlight some big, kind of firm and life changing experiences, so We all remember the beginning of COVID. And I'm in South Florida as well, with with Craig, and South Florida had a pretty good COVID We were pretty, you know, it was pretty easier for us compared to some other parts of the country. But that doesn't mean that March and April and May weren't absolutely terrifying. And I was in the GLM mastermind at that time, and we pivoted towards weekly zoom meetings, because, you know, shit was hitting the fan, right. And so Ben showed great leadership during that period. And I don't know, I stumbled on something. And I, there's probably a Facebook ad about a seminar on bankruptcy. So I went to this and I wrote out and I'm like, okay, everybody's going to be bankrupt in the next six months, the world's going to crap, we're all gonna die. Or if we don't all die, we're all going to going to be bankrupt. So you know what, I know criminal really well, but nobody's out. Nobody's partying, nobody's getting arrested. So you know what, let me go ahead and, and start a bankruptcy practice subset. And I went to the seminar, and I wrote out a mini business plan, and I brought it to the group. And I got eviscerated from everybody. Now the good thing was that people in this group knew me. And they weren't afraid to call out my bullshit. And they said to me, they said, Adam, this couldn't be, you couldn't make a worse decision than doing this. And they were hard on me. And I really appreciated the tough coaching. Because I think a lot of us sometimes especially the real visionaries, we get so excited, and we want to go forward and so fast. Well, sometimes we need somebody to say, Whoa, slow down, hold up, and be tough with us. And so everybody in the group was tough. And they said, Adam, look, this is a high volume, low margin practice, that you have no idea about, and you don't have the infrastructure, because we know you and your team. And right now your two lawyers three, you know, kind of general staff members, and you have one marketing director, and you're not, you know nothing about this. Right? And they said, it's just not worth it. Why are you going to do something where the profit margins are not that high, and you have no idea what you're doing. And after that kind of my hotseat felt like an hour. I just I really let it sink in. And I committed from then to the next week, when we met, I said, Okay, you guys are absolutely right, done. And sometimes the best decision is to not move forward with something, and to be able to say no. And so that, for me was kind of that big, you know, like put me in check moment that really helped the firm because what they said was, it was more than just don't do this, Adam, it was Adam, double and triple down on what you're good at. And what you're good at is criminal defense, what you're great at is criminal defense, and Adam, you're a great marketer, you know, this stuff. And what what I did after this was I abandoned my team together. And the easy thing would have been to layoff three people, we had three of the six of us that have been with us less than 90 days when COVID started. And I said no, as the law firm leader, it's my job and my responsibility to take care of everybody here. And you know, I'm old, but I'm not that old. Right, or I'm young, but I'm not that young. And I've been around a little bit. And one of the things that I've really learned is that kind of that Warren Buffett style of thinking is when everybody's buying, that's when you should sell and when everybody's selling, that's when you should buy. So I saw everybody panic. And I said, You know what, we're going to stay the course. And we're just going to double and triple down on our marketing. And we're going to do all the things that we wanted to do. But guess what casework and new clients got in the way. So all six of us now are in the marketing department. And we're just going to grind and do all the crazy cool things I wanted to do. And we did. And before you knew it in about August, September of 2020, our trajectory was was you know, we were having that hockey stick growth right away. And what that did is it moved into 2021. And in 2021, we went from six to 13 employees, and we had two and a half x growth, which for our revenue level at the time was significant. We broke we broke and and clearly surpassed the million dollar million dollar revenue at that point and got into the multimillion dollar so everything broke. 2021 was a difficult year because it coincided with the great resignation. And we're trying to hire and we're trying to do all these things and the power of having masterminds that year helped tremendously. And one specific example I want to talk about was I'm in the maximum lawyer Guild and this is more of the Pay As You Go group and they had a conference and they had the mastermind day right before the conference, and I'm there. And I didn't know anybody in this group at the time. And we had, we had about 12 employees. And this was about October of 2021. So a little over a year into that hockey stick growth. And my whole thing on the plane, and beforehand, I was like, Okay, what's the secret sauce to now go from 12 to 20. I went from six to 12. Now I want to go to 20. And I started off, you know, that was what I wanted to talk about. And I started off just bitching and complaining, I was in a terrible mood.

October, that whole month of October was just not a good month for me. We still joke in the firm about October, Adam from 2021. And I was, I wasn't a nice person to be around. It was bad, and just stressed and everything. And I started complaining. I'm like, Well, I you know, I couldn't even think because I'm rushed to write checks. And I had to do payroll, and I had to do this and that. And I need to grow, I need to grow and everybody stopped me. And again, tough coaching people who are unafraid to call me out on my bullshit. And they said to me, they said, Adam, who's your bookkeeper? I go, I'm the bookkeeper. You don't have a bookkeeping company. And I'm like, No, I don't. And they go, Well, who's your office manager that has permission to write checks for the firm for subpoenas for witnesses and depositions. And all these everything's like, Oh, we don't have one, it's me. The item you're at 12 employees, and you don't have an office manager. They're like, what's wrong with you and they, and but it was more than just that. They went through piece by piece, and I realized I was being cheap, and stupid and just short sighted. And some, and I knew it deep down. But sometimes I needed people to kind of kick me in the butt and tell me and, and they looked at me. And so Jim, who is the leader of this mastermind, said to me goes, Adam, you're just a highly paid bookkeeper. That's really all you are. You're not some law firm owner, you're not some visionary, oh, you're on EOS. You're not a CEO. They're like, Dude, you're just your bookkeeper and an office manager. And there's nothing wrong with that. But don't, don't trick yourself. Don't come in here saying you have these grand visions, when you don't even know how to delegate or you're being cheap. And I honestly, it was a combination of both. Right? So what happened was, then we had the conference. And I told Jim, I said, Jim, you'll be on my butt. And I'm going to be at the next mastermind, which was in January of 2022. And I said, I promise you that I will have a bookkeeper. And I will have an office, you know, an office manager by then. And I did and I went home and I went and just like what Ken was saying, I took action. And I was motivated. And again, there's many ways to motivate people, one of the ways that I as a former basketball player and former high school basketball coach at a very high level, I'm good with that motivation, that direct motivation. And I was like, There's no way I'm coming into this, and going to be embarrassed without having these things. And I showed up, and I did. And our office manager was our 13th employee, which I do not recommend, you should have an office manager before you get to about six, at least, definitely. And but it was a game changer. And again, sometimes like it's so obvious, but sometimes you just need other people to kick you in the butt. And so that was another amazing transformative experience for me in the firm. And in 2022, we're at the GLM mastermind again. And so Manny, who is the managing partner of the firm, him and I are both there. And, you know, we are again, going through another layers of growth, right. And for we had, we had some virtual assistants we had for marketing, and we tried for intake and intake was an utter disaster. But we tried one person in South Africa, and it just didn't work. But we were a little scarred from that. And Manny especially, was very hesitant and resistant to saying, I don't want anybody in the legal department. I don't want anybody, you know, virtual legal assistance. We can do him for other things, but not for law, not for the staff, not for what we're doing. And so we had kind of we had that for, you know, a good year, because we started with VAs in about 2021. And then we brought it up, we brought up how we can't find really good legal assistance. So of course, people from the group said, Guys, why don't you look overseas, and no, no, no. And then I thought about it just again, right place right time, and I was like Manny, why not try it? Like what do we have to lose? Right? You know, we have to let go a little bit and, and everybody you know, there were people in the group who had said, Look, I do personal injury. I do immigration, I do this. I do that lon we have virtual assistants in the legal department, communicating with clients working on cases. And for us with criminal defense. We didn't want people in the Philippines overnight, although for transactional work that can be found tastic but for us, we need you know, we have our VAs now called judicial assistants and speak to clients all the time. And, and there they do almost they do everything that our legal assistants do, except for the things that must be done in person. And we now have four virtual legal assistance and growing I think we have about six or you know, and we're hoping to grow more VAs globally total in the firm, you know, in different departments. But we have four in our legal department, and we're going to be growing even more with that. And they've been fantastic. We, you know, they all have we have cool backgrounds, we just had to change the way our meetings run, and everything. And it wasn't that much change. And the benefit has been tremendous. It's been, you know, game changing for the firm. So that's just kind of the third thing for the firm that, you know, that was a huge major game changer for us. Now, I know oh, here we go. So we added this slideshow last minute. I don't know, Jay, if we're going to do a q&a portion or anything, but I want people to have my information to keep in touch. I love meeting people. There's nothing that I have to sell on this. But I can you know tell you, Craig stuff is amazing. Ken's I've never been in Ken's group. But I have a lot of friends in Ken's group. And they say it's absolutely amazing. Some things about the masterminds, I agree with Ken, that masterminds at a lower revenue can be extremely helpful. But and I love how Ken has separated it by range, because the problems that Craig's having at an eight figure firm, are not the same problems that a $500,000 firm is going to have, especially and it could also be age of the Age of the Law Firm owner as well, could be a major factor in that. But I think, at the same time where I'm at right now, which is that mid mid seven figure level trying to get to eight, I can benefit from people in Craig's group, because I'm very ambitious. And we're going to be at that level. But I think I'm also in the position where I can learn from the younger version of me the 2018 2019 version of me the up and coming person who has maybe 300 801.5, and revenue, and they're trying to get to my level and beyond now. So, you know, I can see all points of that. And what I would just say is I'd encourage everybody, you know, it's kind of like, if you're an athlete, and you're getting recruited at to play college football or college basketball, there's so much of it as the right fit. It's the coach, the coaching staff, it's the other recruits, you know, the people in the group, it could be the location, that you know, you really, and you can't go wrong with any of these, so long as you take action. But you need to find the ones one or ones that are best for you. And it can change over the years too. So you really need to, you know, know what you want, get an idea of what you're looking for. And I think the application process should kind of be both ways, too. So I would advise you, as you're looking into some of these, you know that the owners talk to them and ask really good questions about what, what it's like, and what the benefits and no, I would also ask what the cons are, you know, to each each group, and if anybody will ever wants to talk to me, or you know, or ask me, I'm more than willing to help. I've had so many people be mentors in my professional life. That, you know, mentors, friends, I owe a lot to everybody that I come into contact with. So I love to pay it forward as well. Awesome. And thank you guys for having me. Yeah,

we've definitely will take a few questions. I just as you know, I always like to sum up each section. So, you know, I love the fact that you've got such great core values in your us. I'm gonna come back to that in a minute. Oh, yeah. And the continuity of the masterminds? You know, I've like seems like all of us have been in and out of a few masterminds. But when you stay with three, four or five years, and really build that rapport with people, then they really, they hold you accountable. They hold you on your on what you commit yourself to. And like Ken said, and you said, you know, you don't show up in four months without having done what you committed to do. So it's part is really part of that success formula that comes with masterminds.

And Jay, I can tell you, we've had some people in some of the groups that I've been in where we sit there and we just kind of shake our heads and go, he or she is the same problem over and over again, we just want to shake them. But that's where you have the continuity involved. And you have the history to be able to say that and be direct and not worry about hurting somebody's feelings. Because ultimately we're all here to grow our businesses and, you know, it's okay to hurt somebody's feelings if it's to help them get better, I believe.

Yeah, for sure. And You know, and it sucks the energy out of the room and right, I'm sure those are some of the folks Ken has removed from his group. The last thing I love the fact that, you know, you propose to your group a pivot from criminal, which is your core competency to bankruptcy and they shut you down. I love that. So Ken's back. I'm not sure if we lost Craig entirely, or if he's just Craig, a few there. Oh, he's great. He's there. Awesome. Just turn this video off. I had a couple of questions that I thought were great for the whole group. And then we'll open it up. Y'all can just put your questions in chat. That'd be great. I think I covered this earlier with Ken. But is it consistent with everybody that there's exclusivity in the masterminds that you have exclusivity in your region or your practice area?

So I'll just jump in and say, for the pay as you go, ones that I've been a part of, there hasn't been exclusivity. And that to me is something that hurts that model. There is confidentiality, and those are always, you know, hammered home. But yeah, luckily, I've never been in one of those yet where I've had a direct competitor, but I could tell you, I I wouldn't be happy with it. Now all the other ones where I've joined and paid for the entire year. There's exclusivity, and that's a big draw for me.

But we also get everybody to sign a nondisclosure agreement. They learn in there and, and they think I'm the only one this might be I'm not. But I gotta do what I tell them to come to the first meeting and they don't think it's a good fit. I give them a complete reefer that I don't know anybody. But I do that, because why would I want your money? If? I don't know, I don't I don't do any contracts or anything? You know, I don't make them commit for a year. I don't want you in there. If you don't want to be in there, I guess is what I'm saying. I mean,

yeah, I, I agree with the exclusivity, we had, um, one of my current masterminds, we had two lawyers from New York. And then as I said, we have a veto power. So the the existing member from New York, got to veto another lawyer from New York. So I think the exclusivity is very important, as Ken said, and we also do give the the show up at the first meeting, not a fit, you can have your money back, because we agree with Ken, that it might not just be a fit with the group. And that's okay. And I'm interviewing someone I'm betting a law firm. Today for one of our Justice League masterminds. And I have a series of questions I asked him, and it's funny, Ken mentioned, we also have the no Asshole Rule. So to find a lawyer that said, a high level that is not full of themselves, is somewhat of a rare animal. And, you know, success is not always necessarily with humility. And especially in our profession, and in masterminds that I find most rewarding. The leader is not a vacuum, suck of energy. The leader is open and likes to step back and let the others shine. And the leaders of facilitator and also the guys who talk too much are the guys who tend to fade out. Because I'm there to listen. And they're to give some advice when needed. But I'm not there to impress others, though I love Ken's no Asshole Rule. And we have the same rule.

You know, get a facilitator, you want to get cool stuff out of people that are kind of introverted, and you want to calm down, quiet down to people that will appear to still talk about it. I've had I had a kick out really big law firm. And I will say, but the deal was they talk to each other all the time. And they didn't know how to whisper. I can't tell him so but the second meeting, I said, if this don't come back, I said I was gonna be a full River. Is it worth it? I told you last meeting, I've told you the beginning of this meeting, said you're distracted. Everybody that came here goes all he could do is hear your loud whispers because they're not whispers in a way, you know, you got to

I don't know, I just gotta be a good teammate. Right? It's like it's on many team. Yeah,

yeah, you gotta you know, either. Yeah, you got to play by the rules, or either don't you know, you kick kicked off the team.

We had a great resolution for that, you know, there's always someone in the room who sets up all the oxygen, but, you know, generally they're super successful. So you want to hear from them. So we instituted a rule. Everybody gets a chance to speak once, before anybody speaks twice. And that's a couple of things like, number one, it encourages the quiet person in the corner who's got a great idea for someone who would never get to the floor if the loud must keep chirping, right. And that person is then encouraged before the lab gets to speak twice that that person gets to contribute, but it also encourages you to hold your Last thought, and sometimes, you know, let a couple people go and make sure. You know, if you had two ideas, one of them, somebody else might say, and then you might save some of your best content. I want to jump in for just one sec. Because my team reminded me, I forgot to share our event. And you all share your events. We have an event coming up April 25, and 26th called tgr live. And you can find that link on our homepage. We've got awesome content around artificial intelligence, Justin lovely, who spoke at filma. Dr. Kane, Elliot is going to talk about artificial intelligence, how you can really use it in your firm, Jason Melton, who many of you know is going to talk about social media, we've got one other social media expert in the room. Nobody's seen John McCarthy. He's from England. He's the law firm profit coach. So nobody's seen him in North America. And we're going to cover niche practice areas with Dave Thomas, and technology on the final day, so that you can just find that 10 golden rules. That's our tgr live growth strategies for law firms event. So anyone wants to take questions in the chat? That'd be awesome. I had one more I wanted to ask you all, because a lot of us are in multiple masterminds. And I see a lot of people who go to like every event. And I know they're not doing much lawyering or much working. If you see him, like at every single event. What do you guys think is enough masterminds and, and seminars to attend? And how much is too many?

Like you can get, you know, overloaded? Certainly, if especially if you have problems implementing or if your staff cannot implement? I think one or two masterminds is the max that I would do personally. And they each have a different role. I'm not currently in a coaching program. And I attend three or four seminars. But I think as Adam was alluding to your different stages of life, to find that I'm an empty nester, I would assume Ken doesn't have any little babies at home. And Adam does have some little kids. So I think your your quality of life, your your commitment to work life balance, and how much you work defines that. And also, you know, you, you know, there's a guy Seth Price, who runs a law firm in Washington, DC, and also runs an internet company that guides that every seminar in the United States. And all he does is travel. Well, that's because he has a company's pitching, as well. And he's also a master at delegating. And he's really a CEO of both companies. So that's a guy who doesn't get sick of traveling all year. So I mean, everybody knows that price is everywhere. He's everywhere, right? I mean, every seminar you go to, so obviously, that works for him. And it works for his family. And he takes enough vacations with his two boys. So it must work for him. So it's really a personal decision. But I think you can overload on this stuff, because it's up to the amount you can implement, I guess, Adams a good person to ask that question as well. Yeah,

no, I think Greg, you're absolutely right. But and what you just said at the end, it's you have to go back and have time to implement. Right? So wherever you are as the lawyer, I mean, look, I can tell you this back when I was in Cape when I was in production, when I was in cases, from 2016 until 2021. I you know, I was a little more limited in what I can go to and what I can do, but at the same time, I never missed a conference or seminar or mastermind that I wanted to go to because of a criminal case, or a trial being said, I always made sure that judges new judge, I'm out because I hear from a lot of my friends, too. We're like, oh, I can't go to this because I have a trial. So why did you Why do you have a trial set then? Because the judge said, judges never set me for trial, on a day that I've had a conference or seminar because I made sure all those judges know that I'm busy. Sorry. So there's also that other side of the coin, right is that sometimes people if they're if they're especially new to their firm, and they're really and they're the only lawyer or only one of two lawyers, they feel as though they can't even go to one of these or have consistency. So again, I think on both sides of the coin, it just it has to be right for you the frequency and you have to be able to actually take action and move the needle because the real work is done in between the meetings in between the conference, whether it's a conference seminar, workshop, mastermind that's when the magic is made is in between the great ideas come and the friendships and the mind right you know, for me it's always on the plane, the plane right there and the plane in my bag. I love it.

I want to thank you so much for doing this, but why don't you give her one you know, like, particularly for someone who's never joined a mastermind on the edge thinking about it. Just give him one thought each. Let's go in the order Craig, go first.

You something

Ken. One thought

Oh, you will return well, you got to lose. I mean, yes, well look good. And Adam,

it's an investment

in your future. Not a cost. Well, guys, thank

you so much for doing this. Ben, thank you for agreeing to do it. And we'll get you on. We'll do we'll do this again. Probably next year. Everyone who's watching on YouTube, sometime in the future, please give us a subscribe and a thumbs up because you guys did an awesome job today, guys. Thanks so much. Have a great day and really appreciate you. Thank you all. Thanks, Jay. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you for listening to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. Please send questions and comments to podcast at 10 Golden rules.com. That is podcast at t e n Golden rules.com.