We get personal and sit down with our spouses to uncover the joys and challenges of marrying into the equestrian world. From late-night barn emergencies to weekend horse shows, they share the ups and downs about adjusting to life with a partner who lives and breathes horses.

Our legislative update includes a special update on the Horse Protection Act. Listen in as Julie and Emily discuss the regulation updates, where the rule stands, and how it may impact the industry. *It's important to note, since we recorded this segment, the President has signed an Executive Order which has paused all regulations yet to be enacted (including the Horse Protection Act) until a full review has been conducted. Currently, enforcement of the new HPA Rule is delayed for 60 days*.  Listen in...

HORSES IN THE MORNING Episode 3575 –Show Notes and Links:

• Your Hosts: Julie Broadway (President) and Emily Stearns (Health, Welfare, and Regulatory Affairs Liaison) of the American Horse Council
• Guest: Tony Humphreys
• Guest: David Stearns
• Guest: Joe Harkins
• Sponsor: Pyranha
• Sponsor: Merck
• Follow Horse Radio Network on Facebook or follow Horses In The Morning on Facebook
• Follow the American Horses Council on Facebook, Instagram and X (formerly Twitter)

Time Stamps:

01:11 - Introduction to the Horse Spouse Experience

18:00 - The Challenges of Horse Ownership

23:55 - The Financial Reality of Horse Ownership

28:10 - The Joy of Horses: A Family Affair

35:30 - The Horse Protection Act: Changes and Concerns

You are listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network Family.

What a beautiful day for Horses in the morning.

You are listening to the number one horse podcast in the world.

Here is your entertaining look at the horse world and the people in it.

Julie Broadway, president of the American Horse Council.

And I'm Emily Stearns, health, welfare and regulatory affairs liaison for the American Horse Council.

Good morning, Horse world.

It's time to hear from the American Horse Council in this monthly episode of Horses in the Morning.

Well, folks, we had a great episode planned for this month, but unfortunately our guest speaker had to cancel at the last minute, so we're going to be rescheduling that for a future podcast.

So as we scramble to figure out what we wanted to talk about today, Emily and I decided that a fun topic would be to talk about the qualities of a successful horse spouse.

Now, some of them may know a little about the horse industry, others may not.

Some may have learned when they married said spouse who is obsessed with horses and has the horse bug.

So that's what we're going to explore today.

But before we get into that, I want to give a shout out to Allison Grist.

She's a freelance writer based in Texas and she wrote a fascinating article about this topic a few years ago for the horse.

I thought she made some excellent points, so I'm going to run through those real quick and then we'll, we'll get to interviewing the guests that we have today.

So number one rule she suggested was to accept your spouse's obsession.

People outside of the horse world are often baffled at the price tag that accompanies our sport, so it's easy to understand.

While many course spouses could question our spending habits, but we have found, she said, that if you look at it from the outside, it looks like a complete waste of time, energy and money.

However, they get something from that.

If you can't put a time or a dollar figure on that, the spouse that's participating really gets something out of this.

So accept the obsession.

Number two, work as a team.

And the point she makes here is that while many elements of horse ownership may be a one person job, the concept of working out as a team makes it enjoyable for everyone.

So we know as equestrians that we hate to juggle spending time between our spouse and our horse.

Therefore, if your spouse will be part of your time with your horse, Everybody wins.

And the third thing she commented on in her article was what she called rule number three, which was accept that you need to quote hurry up and wait.

And she said that she found that this, you know, is often what happens when you have a spouse who is involved in the equestrian life, especially one that shows horses.

So keep in mind that there's more than one way to support your spouse while they're in the arena.

And it all depends on their goals as well as their personalities and your relationship.

Some like to have support from afar, others like them to be around a little bit more and be engaged in what's going on and maybe even with their friends from the barn.

So no matter how your spouse supports you, whether he's or she is helping to feed or take care of things at home, so you can go to the barn or standing reading side at a horse show, remember to let them know how much you appreciate them.

So with that, our episode today has three guests that we are delighted to introduce to you.

So the segment of today's podcast is brought to you by Piranha.

Now, whether you're on the back of a horse or you're in the barn or you're watching from the sidelines, there is nothing more annoying than a flying insect.

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So, gentle listeners, we wanted to introduce our non horse horse husbands to you all as we went ahead and interviewed them.

So.

So I would say he is sitting next to me, but he is actually at his own spot.

But I have my husband, David Stearns and we have our operation manager's husband, Joe Harkins, and we also have our president's husband, Tony Humphries.

So welcome everybody and thank you for putting up with us for the next little bit.

Thanks for having us.

So kicking this off, I think we wanted to start.

You know, we all know how we met as we, we talk about it behind the scenes sometimes.

But we wanted to get kind of the point of view from the horse partners.

Dave, why don't you start?

How did we meet?

I really hope my recollection matches what you've discussed previously.

But I believe we met through mutual friends in high school, I'm going to say the summer going into our junior year of high school, just through mutual friends during the summer we attended different high schools, but had the same friend groups and just kind of a natural meeting, if you will.

Does that.

Does that add up?

Does that jive with your story?

Yeah, I would say it does.

And would you.

You know, we're all friends here.

Would you say I was the weird horse girl back then?

Ooh, weird horse girl.

So not a lot of horse girls, if you will, in quotes, stereotypical horse girl in.

In the.

The high school that I attended.

I wouldn't say you were the weird horse girl.

I didn't even know really that you were into horses, if that's not a.

A negative way to spin on saying that you enjoy the equin lifestyle.

But I would say, no, not the.

Not the weird horse girl.

So.

So of the three horse girls, I was the least weird one for sure.

I didn't quite know the other two horse girls, perhaps because they were in fact horse girls.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you for that gentle description.

So, Joe, moving on, how did you and Ashley Meet?

Did you know she was a weird horse girl before you met for the first date?

I knew she had a horse.

I didn't know she was a weird horse girl.

I wouldn't describe her as that.

But so.

So two for two.

We've managed to catfish both of you.

Tony, how did you and Julie meet?

We actually met through mutual friends.

I'll throw some advertisement out here.

Basically, Julie had a horse at Tara Farm, and I had a very good friend of mine that I worked with at Nortel at the time that showed horses, and I would go out and see her, show her horse.

So I actually met Julie the first time in May at a horse show where Andre had just introduced us.

And then unbeknownst to us, Terra Farm had a New Year's Eve party and the trainer at Terraform Dining.

And Andre had connived and invited me to this New Year's Eve party and invited Julie.

And like, we're the only two single people there, so they kind of put us together on a.

A matchmaking.

So.

So you knew what you were getting into from the beginning, Tony?

Oh, yes.

Julie, do you want to go next?

Do you have more questions for our horse husbands?

Yeah.

So considering that Joe and David may not have known as much about what they were getting into, how long was it before you got to meet the horse?

Figured out there's more obsession in our lives than maybe you suspected.

So, Joe, what do you think?

Okay.

So I was.

I was looking back at it because I actually kept the records of when we first Met.

So I met Ashley's horse, Sam, about roughly a week after I got her on Match.

I believe I was probably helping shovel the paddocks then, so we didn't waste any time.

Yeah, we didn't.

We didn't waste any time.

She had me on a horse in a week.

She had you mucking paddocks within a week?

Yeah.

Efficient.

That's very efficient.

I was thinking it was like three weeks or something, but then I was looking back, I was like, wow.

It was actually just.

Just a week she had me on a horse.

Yep, she had me right away.

So kudos to Ashley and to Joe for being willing to, like, step up and take that on after a week.

That's.

That's an amazing.

David, how about you?

I'm just.

Well, I was just taking a note that Emily, quote, pretended to be shocked that it.

That.

That Joe was mucking a stall or in some way going to the bar.

I can't recall exactly how long was that.

I was introduced to horses in general.

So at that time, I don't think Emily owned.

No, I know she didn't own a horse at that.

The time that we met, when we were still in high school.

I was leasing Camelot by then.

Yeah, Leasing ownership.

I don't.

That's the whole other thing that I'm not 100% on, but I would say that, you know, there were just some.

Some natural, not official dates that occurred where it was just, oh, before we do that, we just have to run over real quick to the barn, and I just have to do a couple things, know, 35, 45 minutes later, you know, after she's fully mucked a stall and done, you know, feeding and watering and hay and all that stuff.

And that's kind of my first introduction to the horse world with.

With a partner.

It was probably a while before I got on a horse.

I'm a very large person, and it's rare for an animal to be bigger than me, and it's rare for me to interact with an animal that is bigger than me at no previous dealings with any type of agriculture, livestock, anything like that in my life.

So I had a natural fear of horses, as I think everyone should have a natural fear of such a large animal.

So it took me a little while to get used to.

And I don't know exactly when I got on a horse, probably, I don't know, a couple months, if I had to.

If I had to throw a number out there.

And it wasn't the work that she was leasing.

I'm Much too large for that horse.

So.

Oh, I got you on Camelot, I think, if I recall.

Well, I'm glad you remember me indoctrinating you to the idea of barn time and the space time continuum as it exists in a stable.

I think it took four or five months for you to pet the Shetland pony, if I recall correctly, Little Miss Muffet.

And then I think I have a photo of you somewhere on Camelot.

That was maybe at month six.

So Tony said he met me at a horse show.

He knew what he was getting himself into.

He started hanging out with me at the barn.

He would go with me to horse shows and it wasn't until he invited me to go to a football game that I found out how he felt about going to a horse show.

So, Tony, do you want to tell them about our experience to going to the football game?

Yeah.

Well, that's many years ago.

You know, Philip.

Philip Rivers was a quarterback at NC State in the first year.

Virginia Tech had joined the ACC and they were playing the opening game at Carter Finley Stadium.

And I had some really good seats about the 35 yard line with a friend of mine.

So we went out and we tailgated before the football game, of course, and we had a really good time tailgating.

So we go into the game and it's, you know, first quarter, that's a really good game.

Rivers is doing really well.

And it's about the end of the first quarter.

Julie, she looks over at me, she goes, oh, well, I'm ready to go anytime you are.

And I says, oh.

I said, well, you remember those horse shows where the horse goes around, around.

Well, that's kind of what it's like for me.

So she says, oh, okay.

So then she just sat there the rest of the game and watched it.

But I had no idea I was torturing him at a horse show the way he was torturing me at the.

Football game and the hors show.

They only get to watch you perform for three minutes at best.

So yeah, yeah, well.

But I'm also going to piggyback off of what Joe and David have said.

It took me 20 years to get my husband to get on a horse.

So last year I had to go speak at a conference.

And it was in Arizona, Tucson.

In Tucson.

And we went over to a dude ranch because I had had the opportunity to interview a guy from White Stallion Ranch.

And we got over there and they said, well, you definitely have to go out for a ride.

And so my husband said, okay, I'm game.

So we actually have photographic proof now that he has gotten on a horse.

It only took me 20 years.

Yeah, that's the trick.

You have to document it, right?

All those horse people out there.

If your spouse gets on the horse, you must document it excessively because you never know when it's going to happen again.

Yeah, it's time stamped on for me.

So.

Hey, Joe, so my question for you would be, what's your favorite part about being a horse husband?

Always learning something new.

Ash is always teaching me new things, telling me about all sorts of new things that I, whether I want to know them or not want to know them.

Learning about, learning about just, I don't know, maintaining horses and what's involved with it.

And then of course, you know, if they, you know, I could, I could take care of Gideon if she to go away.

So that's always good.

And having a little bit of a bond with them, that's, that's fun.

Yeah, pretty much.

David, what about you?

What's your favorite part?

I'll piggyback off Joe there.

I definitely learned something new all the time and sometimes there it's, you know, just something wildly, just unbelievable or you know, something that I just would never have thought of.

But my favorite part, geez, probably just her Emily's like level of happiness, like with them and just kind of watching her kind of do her thing with them.

It's just such a stark difference between the things that I would consider doing myself to that that would make me happy compared to the things that she does herself that make her happy.

But being able to be a part of that is special and it brings me joy.

So.

Yeah, that's such a sweet thing.

Thanks, babe.

What a good hubby.

What about you, Tony?

Well, I'll say we never owned horses, but growing up on a farm was very animal oriented and, you know, a very animal oriented person.

But I mean, I really think that it's the, the interactions that you get with the, the majority of people that you meet in the horse world.

You know, as we travel, go to shows or go to conventions and meet all the different people and they talk about, you know, their horses or describe the interactions that they have with the other people.

You know, that's really an enlightening experience to see all of them and see how they care of them.

And I've definitely learned that probably, you know, the one biggest fear that women have is not being able to own a horse.

You know, it's they, they all just have to have them.

It's.

They're very driven that's it's so it's, it's a good interaction, the way they are when they're with their horse.

I think that's a good thing to say.

Yeah, he, he says this because he asked me to take a hiatus and so I don't have a horse right now and it's about to kill me.

But that's just what it is.

So I, I think it's.

We have three very different living situations here.

So Tony, you grew up on a farm and you and Julie currently do not own, I mean you're, you're very active horse industry people still, but you currently do not own a horse and you live in the suburbs.

Ashley and Joe.

Joe, you were not a farm person growing up, right?

Yeah, you were, you were a suburb guy.

They have their little farmet with their goats and Gideon who comes and goes, they, they lease him out during the school year.

And then I've somehow wrangled Dave into just full out buying the farm.

So, so we have the full gamut of, of relationship situations, I think, in terms of how we're incorporating horses into our lives.

So I think the next question that I had was, so we've talked about what's the, your favorite part, the best part of being a horse husband.

But what is the hardest part?

And I'm going to say something.

I'm going to piggyback and start off something David said, which is time gets away from you.

It doesn't matter if I'm going to the barn or I'm going to a horse show.

I'll say I'll be right back.

And inevitably he has to come and hunt me down because I've gotten sucked into a conversation.

Somebody or something's happened.

But Tony, what would you say is the hardest part?

I'd say that's the two, two things.

That's, that's one.

And I'll go into that other one is to, unfortunately, when you own a horse and you don't have your barn and can go muck staples and stuff, will be paying that board and training bill because it is a, it's, you know, it's not a very inexpensive thing owning a horse if you're going to do it right.

So you have to be committed and you really have to enjoy it.

But the time getting away from you.

My good examples there is, we would always go to the Morgan Grand National World Championship Horse show in Oklahoma City and Judy would go out there and we always have to show up before it starts.

It's, you know, 6:00 so they have breaks during the time and we talk about getting dinner.

And she'd go, oh, yes, in a minute.

Okay, yes, in a minute.

And it just kept going and going.

So you got to be very flexible or you will not have a good time in the horse industry.

But you got dinner, Tony.

And that's the important part.

Yes.

Joe, what do you think is the hardest part?

So when I met Ashley, she had her horse, Sam, and he was, he was getting up there and then when we had the opportunity to get the farm here and bring him home, he was kind of an old man.

You know, he's still able to move around, but he needed some more, some more help to get through things.

So it was, it was a little bit difficult.

So, you know, you know, there's a lot more, you know, medical stops, you know, we, and then, you know, into the whole time management thing.

So like for instance, you know, when we first moved into here, there wasn't very much good cell phone reception.

They built a new cell tower since then.

So if I tried to call her on the phone when she was in the barn, I couldn't get her or she couldn't get me or else we'd sound like robot people.

And so the time management thing, like, she'd go over there and say, okay, I'm just gonna go hay and water the horses.

I'll be back in a few minutes.

And I'm here with the kids.

The kids.

The house is on fire and two hours have gone by and I, and I go to call her, where the heck is she?

And then I had to go over there and find out.

Oh yeah, no, this, this, this, this and this.

I had this and this.

And I gotta get the farrier and I gotta get the vet down here.

And so it was just always a 15 minute walk over there.

She was gone for two hours and she needs her barn time, you know.

Yeah.

Hey, David, I bet you've had a similar experience, haven't you?

To, to everything that's been said so far.

To, again to piggyback.

I'll piggyback Tony this time.

So the, the sheer financial shock when we first kind of were, were beginning to date and I started to learn a little bit more about what owning a horse could, would or could know does, does cost when, when Emily got her first horse Hardy.

We still have who's a, a pet at this point.

But just the, the financial shock was, was startling at first.

I, I joke with her to this day.

The concept of do you know what kind of boat I could have for a monthly payment for what, what is spent on, on stabling and, and the fees that we pay to barns and things like that.

But worst part, what's the hardest part?

But horse shows were, were difficult for me, specifically dress dressage shows.

She could explain it to me 782 times even today, and I, I still just don't understand it even conceptually.

They're super long.

It's either sweltering hot or frigid.

There's so much subjectivity and ambiguity and like what is happening in the dressage ring that I don't really understand it at all.

I don't understand a sport that is judged like that.

So that's really hard to do.

And she sees things that I just possibly can't possibly see.

And she'll point things out to me and it's like a foreign language.

So that's, it's a struggle there.

And obviously I try to be supportive, but she's made me, you know, she's allowed me to stop going to.

We've reached that point in our relationship.

Where I don't have, I don't, I don't force it upon you.

I know you support it in spirit.

Yes, exactly.

And then, yeah, she does, she disappears.

So, you know what I assume would take 30 minutes.

You know, I'll go out and I'll be like, I just make sure you're alive.

You know, it's dark out.

It's, you know, currently 8:30 at night.

Did you realize that type of thing?

And I don't want to sound like I'm reining her back home.

It's just time disappears or does ceases to, to keep running when you're in the barn.

So sometimes my, my other folks out there, horse folks out there will get it.

Especially when you have the horses at home.

Sometimes you just make the mistake of sitting down maybe on your tack trunk or something.

And it's so, and in the dark.

My favorite time in the Barn is like 6:30, 7:00 at night.

It's dark out, everything's quiet.

The horses are just eating and you just sit down for a second and then it like, I don't know, that black hole that, that wormhole just opens up and suddenly everybody's asking you if you want to eat dinner, if you're hungry.

Before Tony and I married, I managed all my own, you know, finances as far as my horse ownership was concerned.

But when Tony and I got married, he decided that he wanted to keep an Excel spreadsheet.

I have to tell you, I don't look at that Excel spreadsheet that.

That takes the joy out of all of this.

I don't want anything to do with that.

I'm like, if you want to talk to me about what I'm spending, feel free, but don't show me that spreadsheet.

I interested in seeing what those numbers look like, and I.

I have a feeling that Emily and Ashley would probably agree.

And.

And I would say so.

Dave mentioned my horse, Hardy, that I got in college, and Dave has at least got a very, very immediate crash course.

He has seen the worst of the worst in terms of medical bills with that horse.

When he talks about his ability to have a nice boat, Hardy could have been a very nice BO in terms of his medical bills.

And honestly, it's almost been a blessing because he makes the other two in our herd look very cheap and.

And very economical.

So, you know, that.

That might be some of my advice as a horse spouse.

The horse person in the horse relationship, you know, really make it as bad as you can as quickly as possible financially.

So when the non expensive, you know, non expensive things I put in quotes, they don't look so bad.

You know, I can appreciate the good ones.

Yeah, yeah.

The spring shots really aren't that expensive when your horse just came out of seven days of isolation at the Tufts Medical Hospital.

Yeah, indeed.

So I'm gonna say one other thing for David's benefit.

So I'm.

He's been with me, seen me show horses tons and tons of times.

He says the same thing.

The trainer will say, more leg.

And he says, good.

That's good, that's good.

Antonio's like, I didn't see anything.

What's he talking about?

I don't get it.

But the tables got turned, David, when my husband bought a really nice dog, and he decided he wanted to show this dog.

So he went to his first dog handling class, and he goes in and he picks up the.

The leash of the dog, and he starts around the ring, and the instructor says, stop right there.

Wait a minute.

Let me tell you.

And she's geared and she's grilling him.

And when he was done with the class, sweat was pouring off his brow, and he was like, oh, my gosh.

I said, this is what it's like when you ride a horse.

It's the same exact concept there.

Same.

Same instructions.

You got to look ahead.

You don't need to look at the dog.

He'll go where you're going.

You got to hold your hand here.

I've picked up a few things, you know, things I've heard at horse shows and things I've heard instructors, you know, shouting out things I've heard Emily say just in the back when giving a lesson or something.

And every now and again we'll be watching something or, you know, well, it was the Olympics most recently, I think during the turn, the summer.

And she's watching the, the beautiful cross country course in France there.

And sometimes I'll just.

I'll try to say.

I'll just say things that I've heard her say.

I don't know if they apply, right.

I have no idea if they apply or that.

But sometimes they do apply or she'll.

It'll land and she'll kind of turn to me and she'll be like, wow.

And that brings me such, such a boost to my, to my ego or to my happiness level.

You know, something just simple to like, keep those heels down.

Something like that.

Like it, like that's something.

I know what that means.

But if it, if it actually is true, in that, in that case, it's.

I, I just, I love doing stuff like that and making her think that I, I know something that I have just.

No, no, nothing, nothing about you.

You.

To give yourself credit, you know, enough that I routinely abandon you with the farm to travel and trust that everybody will still be alive when I come back.

Sure, sure, sure.

I can, I can keep the animals alive.

I just like the weird niche horse knowledge that nobody else would know unless they were horse people or road horses.

You know, she's got to give him his head.

What?

Perfect.

Perfect.

No, no, it's 10 out of 10.

Yeah.

I was going to say we could all make a list of phrases to give you, David, that will apply to every situation.

I like that, that niche knowledge, that subculture knowledge.

It's hyper specific and it's.

If I tried to explain woodworking things to Emily or, you know, very specific, weird niche things and my hobbies, it's.

It's the same type of thing, but cars.

I do my best to follow your car knowledge, but it.

I feel very stupid when you talk to me about cars.

So here's my question.

Now, Tony and I don't have children.

I know.

Joe and Ashley do.

So has this mutation, this gene been passed on to your children, Joe?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

They love the horses.

They love helping Ellie goes out and she'll muck paddocks.

She's.

She's not afraid of anything.

Evie's a little more skittish about it.

And Sam, he just goes right in there.

He.

He's going to be the one who gets, you know, heart.

Yeah, he's fearless.

Oh, my God.

We're gonna need to start another savings account.

They've been bitten by the bug.

So of course, when we go in the barn, you know, I gotta act like, yeah, oh, yeah.

I do this all the time.

Yeah, I'll help you with that.

Yeah.

This is the way.

This is the right way, right, Ashley?

This is the right way.

Emily, are you.

Are you planning to.

To pass on this, this obsession to.

Future, you know, I mean, since we live on the farm, you hope they at least want to help.

Dave, I don't want to speak for you, but part of me is terrified that we are going to get sucked into a second horse person life of, of horse showing and ribbons and bows and pleasure classes and, and finding the right pony and all that.

But, you know, part of you, part of you wants someone else to find as much joy in them as, as you do.

Okay, Emily, what's our wrap up question for today's episode?

Okay, so we'll start with Dave.

What is the best advice you have for other horse spouses out in the world?

Jeez.

I'll start with don't get a thoroughbred.

That's the horse.

First one.

An off the track.

Yeah, especially an off track.

Thor.

Jeez.

Open your.

Your view of what horses are if you didn't grow up around them or didn't.

Don't know anything about them like I did.

They're much more than.

This might sound silly, like a, a privileged, elite sporting type thing for just the privileged and elite people.

I would even argue now with the experience that I have now that I would argue or posit that they're, they are a special animal.

And they, they evoke emotions and, and actions in people that I don't think they would otherwise have ever evoked, if that makes any sense at all.

Especially when I see people that haven't necessarily ever been near a horse, get near a horse, or just have an interaction or an experience with a horse.

That little magic spark that, that I think Emily can see in their eye when they have an experience.

I think a lot of people aren't ever going to experience.

And I also think perhaps they won't experience with an animal other than a horse, if that makes, if that makes sense.

It's.

It's hard to.

I lack the vocabulary To.

To really explain this, but I hope you get the sentiment.

I.

I feel like I need to clarify.

I did not bribe him to say any of this, that he.

He just came up with that on his own.

So if you need, you know, a spokesperson for the horse industry, I think we just found one.

Blink twice for.

Joe.

What about you?

Okay, so there's.

There's a lot of positive, negative things to.

To having wife who's big on horses.

I mean, this is, of course, the.

The financial things that we discussed earlier, and there's time management, but all in all, I mean, it's.

It's more positives than negative things.

You know, the horse industry is a.

It's a tough place full of tough people.

You know, I mean, my wife's probably one of the toughest people that I know, but one of the most loving people that I know.

And, and, you know, there's a whole.

But there's a whole magical thing with horses too.

You know, like, for instance, if we have birthday parties and take the horses out, you know, and then the kids love seeing the.

Love seeing the horses and going for little rides and that's.

That's.

That's always nice to see.

And, you know, seeing the look of wonder on their faces, I think that's pretty cool, you know, and it's.

It's.

This is a whole, Whole different world.

And it's in.

And like David said, it's.

It's good to keep an open mind with all that.

It's because this.

This.

It's a.

It's a whole other world and it's.

And it's really cool.

It's really cool.

Okay, Tony, wrap us up.

Okay, I.

I think have an open mind is really one of the biggest things to have, but I think you need to go in with horses as anything.

I mean, Julie lasts with the spreadsheet and all that we did.

But the.

What it allowed me to do from that perspective of, you know, our horse world is see everything.

So, you know, a lot of times you forget you.

The little things that's involved.

You remember the big things.

Oh, yeah.

Buying the horse and all that.

But then when you look and you track everything, you see all the vet bills and the food bills and the supplement bills and this.

And it's the same thing when you own one, that, yes, it's nice to have it, but you have to remember, yes, you got to clean your stall, yes, you got to feed them.

Yes, you have to keep up with this.

You have to give them time, exercise, and, and all of those little things.

But as a horse person or somebody is just coming into it, I think that open mind that there's so many things that are involved with being associated with horses that you can always find something that you can relate to and bond to and enjoy.

You know, you can't just look at a big picture and say, well, I don't like that.

You know, it's either the interfacing with all the people that you come across or actually the interaction with the animal itself that, you know, can bring you lots of joy and entertainment as well.

So I think you just need to be open and enjoy everything that's involved with it.

Well, I want to thank David and Joe and Tony for playing along with us to get today.

They've been great guests and we really appreciate them carving out a little bit of their time to help us with this episode today.

So thanks everyone.

So the last segment of our episode today is brought to you by Merck.

Merck Animal Health believes that if we all do right by the horse, will never do wrong.

So that's why they are driven by an unconditional commitment to the horse and to the veterinarians and the communities who support them.

From infectious disease tracking through their equine respiratory biosurveillance program, to building a sustainable profession through their veterinary well being study, to creating equine health products with the highest level of safety and efficacy.

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And you can learn more about Merck by going to merck animal health usa.com so today's legislative and regulatory update is on the Horse Protection Act.

It's gone through several revisions over the course of the last, what is that, 50 years?

So if you're listening to this episode, the first Tuesday of February, they've already possibly gone into effect, or maybe not.

And the reason I say that is that we are operating in a very fast changing and unstable environment.

And that's partially due because the American Horse Council and a lot of members of the industry still have outstanding questions about the regulations.

And we're trying to get clarity and some greater insights as to how some of this process is going to work.

But we're not getting a lot of answers back from USDA right now.

And we also are having a changeover in our leadership in the US So with incoming new President and changes in top level people in all the agencies in Washington.

We just don't know exactly if this is going to take effect on February 1st or not.

And in addition to that, the American Horse Council has formally requested USDA to delay the implementation because we don't think they're ready and we don't have all the information that we need in order to move forward.

So having said that, I will also say to you that we have more questions than we have answers right now.

They range from what events are covered and included under the regulations.

We still don't have clarity around that.

We don't have clarity around some of the new reporting requirements.

There's some new inspectors that are going to be used for the Horse Protection act and we don't believe that they have announced who those individuals are or how to contact them or find that kind of information.

So just a whole lot of questions and concerns that have not been addressed and the information is not forthcoming.

So we're really, really at the American Horse Council carefully considering and consulting with our members to determine how we want to proceed about this.

Emily and I just came back from speaking to the League of Ag and Equine Centers and we did a whole presentation on the Horse Protection Act.

So if you've got questions about the Horse Protection act, by all mean, drop us a note@infoorscouncil.org we'll add that to the laundry list of things that we're trying to give the USDA to address and help us figure out how to proceed with all of this.

I also would like to add that the one thing that I keep telling folks about the Horse Protection act is this was codified into law.

And so what that means is that the only thing that the leadership at USDA has the purview to do themselves is to delay the implementation.

They cannot overturn the rule.

So we're working a lot of different angles to try to figure out how to proceed.

So the only thing the American Horse Council could do at this point was to ask for a delay.

We asked for a 60 day delay, but we haven't given up on trying to make some vast changes to these regulations.

So we'll see how that kind of continues to, to play out.

Julie, I've seen a lot of stuff floating around on the Internet, as we all do, and some things like, you know, the new regulation is going to require any therapeutic item, such as massage or chiropractic to come with a veterinary letter saying it's an approved therapy.

Is, is that true?

Is that the whole story.

We have read and read and read, Emily, and we don't see that in the regs.

But I too have seen that sort of floating around.

I would offer that people should really do their due diligence about what's included in the regulations and what's not, because there are those kinds of misstatements.

There are some really, I don't know, false narratives, I guess is the right word being pushed around out there.

And I actually had a woman call me recently and she said, you know, my little, my little club, local club, is quite concerned about some of the things they read online.

And I said, fair enough, need those, but don't take them for fact.

Be sure to do your due diligence and make sure you've gotten the full picture.

And, and we can help you out there.

If you're trying to read the regulation on your own and you're confused by it or have questions, Julie and Bridget, our Legislative affairs staffer and I, we have read it front to back several times over the last two years.

So we are happy to help you walk through it.

Things like.

Julie, can you clarify?

So it says now it applies to all breeds and disciplines, and it's never applied to all breeds and disciplines.

How, you know, if we go to from Totally false to 100% True, how does that statement kind of stack up?

Okay, this is one of those questions I get frequently, Emily.

The introduction does not specify that this applies only to Tennessee walking horses or racking horses.

It says that it's put into place to look out for the health and well being of horses, period.

So to a certain extent, even from the very beginning, it's had a rather broad umbrella.

But as it has been implemented, it has focused strictly on soaring, which takes place amongst the walking horses and the racking horses.

And I'm not going to make the mistake I made in Vegas.

Emily, not everybody knows what soaring is.

So soaring is when a caustic chemical is applied to the front limbs of a horse or other types of devices are applied to the horse to cause them to have a very sensitive touch with their feet.

And so it makes for a very exaggerated gait, very exaggerated gait.

And so it's a very harmful practice for these horses.

They look so uncomfortable to me.

And so, you know, that's what the law has really focused on.

But what we have seen in these new regulations, Emily, is that there are certain parts of the regulations that this time USDA is applying to all breeds and all disciplines.

And one of Those is a 30 day notice for all horse shows in the US and that means they have to send in a email to USDA that tells them they're having an event and how many horses they're going to have and what kind of breeds they're going to have and answer a few questions for them.

And that's caused quite a bit of concern across the entire horse industry because everybody's like, wait a minute, that's another thing I've got to, I've got to fill out.

So you're.

Because that question, Emily, I'm sorry to kind of cut the knife a little fine here.

No, I think that does.

And in terms of show reporting, they are enforcing it against all breeds.

More clearly, they clarified the language and the updated regulation I think is the best way to explain it.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to explain it.

Well, I do want to say it's interesting.

The American Horse Council put out a special bulletin a couple of weeks ago because we weren't getting cooperation from USDA and said that we had formally requested this 60 day extension, but that we wanted to be clear that we still supported the original intention of the Horse Protection act, which was to prohibit soaring.

And some people have, I think maybe misinterpreted that statement to mean that we are in agreement with all aspects of this new regulation.

And I can honestly say the American Horse Council is not in agreement with all aspects of this regulation, far from it, but we are still committed to the prohibition of soaring.

And so we are continuing to have internal discussions, discussions amongst our committees, discussions amongst our board of trustees about whether or not we're going to put out a follow up statement to kind of clarify what our position is or exactly how we want to proceed.

I will tell you that we asked USDA to respond to our request for a delay and we have not had a response from them.

So there could be more information forthcoming folks, about where we're at with this.

And I think the easiest answer is always, especially with the changeover in administration, which we're already seeing staffing changes within usda, which is not uncommon when there's a new president coming in, it doesn't matter who it is, who knows how everything's going to move forward.

And, and if anybody has a crystal ball, we would love to know, but that, that will have an impact on enforcement.

We just don't know how that will impact things.

So folks, stay tuned if you have questions.

As Emily said, feel free to reach out to any of us.

We'll try to do our best to address them and give you as much insight as we can.

Unfortunately, in some places we're going to tell you what we've been told and what we haven't been told, and we might not be able to get you everything you need, but we're happy to chat with you about it.

And please know that we have as much anxiety and consternation about all this as probably all of you do we.

We are fellow horse people and fellow horse showers.

So we get it, folks.

Yeah, we do.

So thanks Emily for helping me out with that.

Again, reach out to us if you have any questions, folks.

Thank you for joining us today.

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