Trauma Bonding, Bury Your Gays, and WVU’s Burning Couch Lore

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Hosts Beck and Dash discuss difficulties accessing the film The Foxy Merkins for rental and plan to review it next episode, then talk through queer film history and favorites, including the “bury your gays” trope’s Hays Code origins and later shifts in ’80s/’90s queer cinema. They compare movie lists to watch together (e.g., Alien, Night of the Living Dead, Shaun of the Dead and the Cornetto Trilogy) and chat about Monty Python, Mel Brooks, and adaptations like The World According to Garp. Beck shares experiences with wage disparity, job stress, high school reunions, grief and unwanted public memorialization of a brother killed in action, and an unsettling workplace stalking incident. The episode includes a faux sponsor segment on “trauma bonding” and a “Noun of Appalachian Interest” about WVU’s burning couches, plus lighter updates on food, books, and upcoming MRIs and boxing.

00:00 Intro & Movie Talk

26:18 High School & Breakups

28:32 Military Service & Heroes

36:05 Stalkers & Exes

42:45 Domestic Violence in Queer Relationships

46:43 Trauma Bonding & Memory

52:26 Appalachian Culture & Couch Fires

01:00:37 Literature & Film Analysis

Welcome to Queernecks, the podcast that puts the yehaw in y'all means all.

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I'm your host, Beck,

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Dash: and I'm your host.

4

Dash.

5

Welcome to today's episode.

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I'm gonna leave the door open and...

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Oh, wait, no, the door's not open.

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I was p- to say, "Wow, the cats

are really leaving me alone."

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false alarm.

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Beck: I've got Rue hanging out.

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It's just sitting here beside me.

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Well, she got a haircut.

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She went to the groomer

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Dash: Yeah, she looks...

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Beck: on, let me see here She got

her, uh, a whole, whole grooming.

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She came home with little

pink bows in her ears.

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We took those out immediately.

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We're not pink bows kind of girls,

but she looks a lot better and I

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think she feels a lot better, so.

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Who's a good girl?

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Dash: So we, listeners, we looked high

and low for The Foxy Merkins streaming

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somewhere accessible, more accessible.

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There's no such thing as free really.

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But i- in, in the context of a review

show, there are movies that are easier

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to access because of their inclusion

in one of the more popular subscription

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services that folks tend to have.

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So you know, if, if it had been

on Netflix, that's not free,

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but most people have Netflix.

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But anyway, that is not on any of the

streaming services that are inclusive of

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everything on it, if that makes sense.

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But it is on Amazon Uh,

I have my caps locks on.

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And YouTube.

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It's on Fandango.

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It's on Google Play.

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All of those are $3.

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Apple TV, it's $4 So, you know

I'm, we, we talked on air about it.

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I'm cool $3 to rent to a movie, especially

because this way it goes to the filmmakers

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if I'm gonna continue the search for, you

know, a copy that fell off the back of the

39

truck, but, and I may just make one or I

could post that, you know, in the Discord.

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But, you know, this

goes for everyone else.

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I mean, it's just as well that

these artists get paid for the

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thing they made Who's doing that?

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Quit I feel whenever I'm up in this

tower and I'm trying to do something

44

and they're scratching around behind

me, I feel like Emily Rose in, um...

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Oh, fuck.

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What, what book is that?

47

Beck: Doesn't sound familiar to me

48

Dash: A rose for Emily.

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Not in Lily Rose.

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But like, just like, or, or like the, the

mom in Psycho or something, like just this

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crazy old woman in her tower yelling at

nobody Emily Rose, my God Can you tell

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I just got a job as an English teacher?

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I'll have to censor that When I was

looking at these folks to see, you know,

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just if there was contact information

for the director or any of these people,

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and they've made a couple other movies

that are similar to Foxy Merkins.

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One of which is a little more speaking

of Emily's is, uh, more mainstream.

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It's got Molly Shannon in it.

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It's called Wild Nights With Emily, and

it's a lesbian rom-com about Dickinson

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Beck: Didn't she die a long time ago?

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Dash: Yeah What do you mean?

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Beck: Is it, I, I, I guess I took

it to be set in the present tense

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Dash: No.

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Uh, no, it's a period piece

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Beck: Got ya

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Dash: Well, I haven't seen it,

but I assume it looks like one.

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I mean, it's, it looks like they're

playing that part straight anyway

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Beck: just don't see a lot of

gay stuff from that time period

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depicted in that time period

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Dash: Right.

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It's, it's kind of a, a

narrow sort of genre, I guess.

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So, like, there's The Favorite,

which is Yorgos Lanthimos

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movie, and I couldn't stand it.

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I actually like several

of his other movies.

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But I couldn't stand that one, and

it's the only lesbian one that...

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It's the only queer one he's done.

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And it was Rachel Weisz and Olivia

Colman, so it was, it was a

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great cast, but I just, I don't

know, I couldn't get into it.

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Couldn't get through it did you ever

watch any of those, the, like, really

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bad lesbian B movies from the '90s?

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Like Claire of the Moon or Bar Girls

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Beck: No, they don't sound familiar

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Dash: They're so bad.

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They're really, really bad.

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But I watched them all because...

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And some of them are fun, you know,

like The Incredibly True, Incredibly

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True Adventures of Two Girls in Love.

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Beck: I did see that one

Not a good movie Yeah

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Dash: fun, you know?

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Beck: Yeah

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Dash: So tho- those are...

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And, and Desert Hearts,

I mean, that's iconic.

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It's classic.

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It's legendary.

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I love it.

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It has a happy ending.

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The- which that was the big thing

with the lesbian movies from the '90s,

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is that of them actually did have

happy endings for the, protagonists.

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the bury your gays trope,

have we talked about this on

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Beck: I don't think so.

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Dash: from?

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Beck: No, I don't think so

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Dash: So it, uh, most people probably

know it, but it's just this, uh, this

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trope of a, a love story or a drama

that has two queer characters in them.

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Often they are in a couple, they're

star-crossed lovers, but it could

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also just be, like, the gay best

friend, and that person either dies

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or is punished horribly or both.

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And it serves kind of like a woman in

a refrigerator as some sort of personal

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growth moment for the protagonist,

the real protagonist at best.

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If they are protagonists, then

it's just they can't be together.

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And that trope is tired, you know?

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It's overused.

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We see it too much.

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But it was invented by queer people.

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A- And so, you know, it's important

for us to remember that because it's,

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the, the existence of that trope

is from the Hays Code during, the,

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the, like, golden age of Hollywood

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Beck: following the, the decadent

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Dash: all that, Legion of Decency.

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So this was the group that, uh,

the precursor to the MPAA, and

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they were literally a a cadre

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Beck: group of religious men, right?

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Religious leaders from various faiths and

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Dash: approve movies or not, so the

studios all had to go through those.

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And it, it was actually forbidden to

show right, sexual deviance, which

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Beck: With host

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Dash: for the most part, uh, queer

people, gay, gay people unless it

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Beck: Yes, it was a moral tale, the

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Dash: ways.

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So they've...

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It was kind of a loophole.

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And, and Hollywood, of

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Beck: error of their ways.

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So they-- It was kind of a loophole.

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And, and Hollywood, of course, took

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Dash: queer people.

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Like, all of these creatives, right, the

folks who wrote the movies, who directed

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them, who acted in them, who scored

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Beck: Four of them, they were

all queer or immigrants.

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Hollywood was, you know, they were out

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Dash: So

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Beck: to recommend someone

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Dash: and so they exploited this

loophole of the bury your gays trope.

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They could show queer people on-screen

as long as they died folks who don't

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quite know that full history, uh,

they're very like snooty about the

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bury your gays trope, which as I

said, we don't need it anymore, right?

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It doesn't need to exist.

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And, and if you're gonna use it, you need

to be doing something interesting with it.

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You need to be doing something

contemporary or salient with it, not

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just hopping into a, a harmful trope.

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maybe harmful is not the word, maybe

traumatized is a better word, Think

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about the, the psychic dissonance of a, a

person, a filmmaker needing to do that in

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order to represent themselves on screen.

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that's a really traumatic origin.

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anyway, in the, in the '80s and

'90s, there was a big celebration

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of not needing to do that, more so

in the '90s, but like there was also

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like that tension with HIV AIDS.

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lot of the queer films from the

'90s were fucking crazy, irreverent.

158

And they had happy endings for the,

folks in them, but they weren't very

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good because everybody was making them

160

There's also Portrait of a Lady on Fire.

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Do you know that one?

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Beck: No

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Dash: It's a period one...

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It's French In the late 18th century

brief affair between a young aristocrat

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and a painter commissioned to paint her.

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I've actually never seen it, but let

me- so many students have written...

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I've read more papers

about this, this movie.

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Like, and when I teach queer cinema, I

don't teach this when I do international

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cinema, I want it to be representative

of certain things, and this just

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doesn't really fit any of those things.

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When, like, s- when I, if, to show

s- to, to get into international

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queer cinema, I will usually show

something like Fire or something from

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a very non-Western perspective just

to kind of give them access to s-

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they can watch this whenever the fuck

they want to Nobody can watch Fire.

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It's banned

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Beck: Oh, wow

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Dash: Yeah, and it's been

scoured from the internet.

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You can...

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I tried to find a copy of it on

Amazon once, and it was like $140,

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and you had to buy one of those,

like, special DVD players because it's

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that...

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Beck: The regions?

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Yeah

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Dash: I eventually found an illegal

copy that is, it's nearly unwatchable.

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It is ghastly pixelated

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Beck: Have you ever had a book that

you d- really loved and you watched

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the movie and it was terrible?

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Dash: So many times, yeah.

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One was so impactful that it made it

into a chapter of my dissertation.

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I wrote about the fact that the

movie pissed me It what, so I saw

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your, your list of movies is, were

you thinking of The Color Purple?

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Beck: No I think that one's okay.

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Have you ever read, uh, The World

According to Garp by John Irving?

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Dash: Nope

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Beck: It's a great book.

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It's one of my top five

favorite books of all time.

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There's queer characters, there's a trans

character there's a lot of biting sarcasm.

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There are lesbians with no tongues and

all kinds of interesting things happening

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in that book, and they made the movie,

and they cast Robin Williams as Garp.

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Dash: I didn't even know it was a book

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Beck: Yeah, he is a terrible Garp.

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I love Robin Williams with my

whole heart, like my whole heart.

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He was not Garp, and it ruined the

whole movie Like Garp should have been

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like a Channing Tatum kinda person

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Dash: Yeah,

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Beck: with, with

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Dash: reading this little, the

blurb on the back of the book

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here, and I had no idea it was

all, it was about all this stuff

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Beck: Yeah.

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The movie is terrible

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Dash: under Williams fuck shit, you

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Beck: Yeah.

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Yeah, he should never have been Garp.

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I was very dis- 'cause I read the book

and then they were like, "Oh, there's

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a movie," and I was like, "No way!"

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You know?

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And I had ju- it was, I was like

loving the book, and then I watched

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the movie and I was very disappointed.

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That was in the late '90s, I think But

John Lithgow plays the trans- oh, was it?

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I read it in the '90s, so

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Dash: Yeah.

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Well, according to 82,

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Beck: Gotcha.

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Well, I didn't get it until, like, '95, so

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Dash: So John Lithgow

played the trans woman.

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That makes s- well, I,

I'm s- he's a transphobe.

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Like, he's very much,

like, agrees with J.K.

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Rowling.

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He's playing Dumbledore now.

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and he said something about he had

played a trans woman before when he was

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attempting to excuse his views, you know?

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that's crazy, right?

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That, I mean, you remember, you know

that old joke of, like, "I'm not

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a doctor, but I played one on TV"?

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Beck: Right?

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Dash: I'm not a trans woman, but I

played one on TV The only time that

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has ever been funny was when Noel

Fielding said it on The Great British

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Bake Off I don't know how it even...

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I don't remember how it came up.

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I remember 'cause did you watch

The Mighty Boosh, that show that he

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was on before he became, Presenter

on The Great British Baking Show.

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It's crazy.

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It's absurdist.

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But there's a character on it

called Old Greg who Baileys from

245

a shoe, and he has a mangina.

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That's his thing, He's green.

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He's made out of seaweed.

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He lives in a cave, and he's

just a character in this sketch

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show played by Noel Fielding.

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And it was everywhere in the mid-2000s.

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so he did that kind of humor.

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And then I've, I don't even

remember what it wa- when it was.

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It wasn't 10 years ago that he

became the, one of the co-hosts

254

of Great British Baking Show,

and everybody was like, "What?

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This guy And I remember watching this

happen on an episode of Bake Off where

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somehow it veered over into trans

identities, which how did we get there?

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And he goes, "I played a

transsexual once on TV."

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And I was like This

actually is extremely funny.

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If anybody else had said something like

that, not sure how I would've felt,

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but for some reason him saying that

and me knowing that I had enjoyed that

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character, it just, that was great

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Beck: That's awesome

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Dash: Now I want to read

The World According to Garp

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Beck: I recommend it.

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It's one, like I said, one of...

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It's a, it's a, it's a quirky book.

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If you like quirky things,

I think you'll like it.

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Now, remember that recommendation is

from, like, 17-year-old me, but it

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was about worldly things I shouldn't

have been reading that in high school.

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but I was

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Dash: Yehaw

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Beck: I did this summer program at

Miami called Junior Scholars where you

273

went to the dorms and lived there for

six weeks and took a couple of classes.

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It was a recruitment tool, you

know, but it was you had to get in.

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It was pr- prestigious.

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And one day, I ... The way to

make friends back then was to

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sit on the porch and smoke.

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And so one day there was this girl,

uh, her name might have been Becky.

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It might have been.

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But she was reading The World According

to Garp, and she told me that it was good.

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And so I had never heard of such

things, and I wanted to be cool,

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so I read that my senior year

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Dash: Did you say the program

was called First Scholars?

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Beck: Junior Scholars

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Dash: Junior school, okay.

286

It was called First

Scholars at SIU Carbondale.

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I love those summer programs

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Beck: Yeah.

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I was the administrative assistant

for two years when I, when I b- went

290

back to school, and that was fun.

291

The director was a dick, but

I liked doing the work, so

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Dash: Yehaw

293

Beck: I always use that job as an example

of the wage gap because during that

294

job I was doing, I was doing the mail

runs, and I was going to the airport

295

to pick people up, and I was arranging

travel from Luxembourg, and doing meal

296

plans, and going to get pizza, and,

you know, doing all of the things.

297

And also sitting bell desk.

298

You know what that means, right?

299

Sitting bell desk.

300

Like, when you come in at midnight and

there's some- somebody sitting at the desk

301

there and they sign you in, that's sitting

bell desk, the person sitting there.

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It's a safety thing.

303

That way if somebody doesn't come home,

then they can, they can worry about it.

304

And so s- uh, because they were

children, we had to have somebody

305

sitting bell desks most of the time.

306

And so I found out he was paying this guy

to only do bell desk $2 more an hour for

307

me, uh, more than me, and I asked him why,

and he said it was because he had a kid.

308

I was doing all that extra work

and got $2 less than that guy

309

'cause he said he had a kid.

310

That was some bullshit

311

Dash: why.

312

Beck: Well

313

Dash: that pro- that may have played,

I'm sure did play a part in it, right?

314

He probably wasn't just,

like, completely lying.

315

But if it had been a woman

who had a kid, they would,

316

Beck: Yeah.

317

Oh, I agree.

318

I agree

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Dash: Fucking

320

Beck: He was a prick though.

321

One time I wore a, a T-shirt with

the number 87 on the pocket or

322

where the pocket would be, right,

right on the breast, and he was

323

like, "What's that, your IQ?"

324

And I was like, "You

listen here, motherfucker.

325

I'm doing like credit card re-

reconciliation after like no training.

326

Like I'm running this fucking

program while you wave your

327

little hand and say hi to people."

328

Like it made me very angry.

329

That's why I only did it for two years.

330

It wasn't worth the hassle That program

doesn't exist anymore in that form.

331

It went on for like 50 years, but

now they do, I guess, two-week

332

sessions and they ha- it's not

like a prestigious thing anymore.

333

It's just a solid recruitment tool.

334

I just, I don't know.

335

That's what sold me to go to Miami.

336

That's the whole reason I went

there was because of that program

337

Dash: Um, So I guess we

are gonna do Foxy Merkins.

338

Do you wanna do that for next week?

339

Beck: Sure

340

Dash: Mm-hmm.

341

And s- so, but something else we've

been doing is, or that we have been

342

working on, is making lists of trying

to find, like, trends in our movie

343

watching, and maybe be a little more,

a little less c- fucking random about

344

choosing what we, what we watch.

345

So you made a list of a bunch

of movies, I made a list.

346

what we did was just, for this

one, we went with the ones that

347

we have seen the most often,

for whatever that reason may be.

348

I have since been organizing

some categories of those.

349

So I've made a category m- the movies

that you listed that I haven't seen.

350

And then I looked for overlap.

351

So we both listed a Disney

movie, so I put that together.

352

You had put Sabrina, the

353

I haven't

354

Beck: Mm-hmm.

355

Dash: one of the ones I haven't seen.

356

Beck: It's really good

357

Dash: Have you s- have you seen Harvey?

358

Beck: No

359

Dash: That's like maybe one of my

favorite movies ever, like top movies.

360

And it's, when is it?

361

It's from, I think it's also ' 54, 1950.

362

And it's also got Jimmy Stewart in it.

363

I think he was in everything

during that decade.

364

So I put those together, and then I

made a category of scary but important

365

horror movies for you to watch.

366

Beck: As long as I can watch

him in the daytime with

367

Shanna home, I should be okay.

368

I should be all right

369

Dash: I didn't choose

them randomly, right?

370

They, I chose them f- so, uh, I picked

Alien because you're gonna have a lot

371

of responses and resonances with the

feminist, like representation of it,

372

and there's a lot to talk about there

in terms of how that movie got made.

373

So that would be a fun one.

374

Night of the Living Dead similarly, but

with, know, b- a Black male on screen.

375

And then I put Shaun of the

Dead on there, which is just...

376

Beck: I've seen that one.

377

Dash: It's

378

Beck: Yeah, yeah

379

Dash: have you?

380

Beck: Oh, have you?

381

Yeah.

382

Many times

383

Dash: Did you...

384

Okay, so there's the rest of the trilogy.

385

It's called the Cornetto Trilogy.

386

Have you seen those?

387

Beck: No, I don't think so

388

Dash: It's, there's, the other

ones are called Hot Fuzz and

389

The World's End, I think.

390

And Hot Fuzz is, I think, technically

it's the best one of the trilogy,

391

but I'm not very tuned in.

392

It's a- about buddy cops, and

so I'm, I'm not very, I don't

393

watch that genre as much.

394

I watch Shaun of the Dead more because

I'm really familiar with the zombie genre.

395

But Shaun of the Dead is funnier.

396

It's just more ridiculous

397

Beck: I didn't even think about putting

like Monty Python or, uh, my favorite Mel

398

Brooks movie is Robin Hood: Men in Tights

399

Dash: I love Robin and the Mennonites.

400

I was thinking about that movie

yesterday while I was combing my beard.

401

Beck: Because we're men.

402

We're men in tights.

403

Tight tights.

404

Dash: You, you know that scene where

he, he's like stroking his goatee

405

and then it falls off in his hand?

406

Beck: Or the one he's like, "My

fellow whatever, lend me your

407

ears," and then they all pelt him

with their ears from the audience.

408

Or the blind braille, the blind

guy doing, uh, braille Playboy.

409

Dash: Or when he's on lookout,

"Lincoln, what are you doing up there?"

410

" Guessing?

411

I guess nobody's coming."

412

Beck: Y- I'm with you.

413

I'm with you.

414

Do you have a favorite Monty Python?

415

Dash: Yeah, it's Life of Brian

416

Beck: Yeah, that's a good one.

417

I, at my funeral, I want that song played.

418

Always look on the bright side of life.

419

Dash: I, yeah, I really

liked Life of Brian.

420

I liked that it was narrative.

421

Uh, they don't actually have very many

narrative things, and I like the sketch

422

comedy format of course, but I like

the ambition of a, of a full narrative.

423

Beck: Yeah.

424

I like the,

425

Dash: Yeah, Holy Grail is fun too.

426

But I remember being so angry at

the way it ends when I was a kid.

427

Beck: Yehaw

428

Dash: The way it uh, not that

they break the fourth wall, that's

429

hysterical, I really loved that.

430

I just didn't like that we didn't

get to see the end of the movie.

431

I, to know how it ended And I'm

someone who, I actually like the, the

432

transgender joke in Life of Brian that

Eric Idle's character, he, he's, uh, he

433

goes like, "I would like to be called

Jessica now, and Call me she and her."

434

like, when they wrote it,

I think it was just...

435

I don't know.

436

It's hard to explain.

437

If we, if we ever talk about that

one, I'll, I'll talk more about it,

438

but I don't wanna go off on a tangent

Yeah, once I started writing m- movies

439

down, I was like, "This could go on."

440

So

441

Beck: Right?

442

Dash: like, we'll work on this

list, and if you wanna take a look

443

at, like, the full one I have and

pick out ones you haven't seen,

444

Beck: That was most of

them, to be honest with you.

445

Dash: Okay.

446

Beck: ones I have seen, I, so I have,

I don't know if I've ever sat down and

447

watched The Little Mermaid from beginning

to end, but I have seen enough clips

448

of it that I've seen the entire movie.

449

I've not seen Alien.

450

I have not seen Night of the Living Dead.

451

I've seen all of the Harry Potters.

452

I have not seen The Long Kiss Goodnight.

453

I don't know anything about that one.

454

I have seen Addams Family Values.

455

I have not seen The Last Action Hero.

456

Shaun of the Dead I have seen, and

I have not seen Strictly Ballroom.

457

And I have seen the Indiana

Jones, at least two of them.

458

I don't know if I've

seen the whole trilogy

459

Dash: Long Kiss Goodnight Last Action Hero

460

Beck: Yeah, Strictly Ballroom,

461

Dash: Uh,

462

Beck: Night of the Living Dead

463

Dash: Well, I mean, that

kinda rounds it out, you know?

464

Because I ha- I...

465

There were three from you, from

your list that I hadn't seen.

466

And then I made the

other categories just by

467

Beck: Which three have you not seen?

468

Dash: Major League, The

Color Purple, and Sabrina

469

Beck: Got ya

470

Dash: So w- we can, uh, work

on how to, to choose them.

471

I mean, I, I don't know if it would be

as fun to just throw them on a wheel and

472

spin it, but maybe that's the best way.

473

I don't know.

474

Beck: Like fun to me

475

Dash: we can figure, we

can figure that out later.

476

And then, you know, just whenever

we feel like it, go, "Hey, let's

477

spin the wheel and find a movie."

478

But for next time we're gonna watch,

we're gonna review The Foxy Merkins.

479

Beck: Americans

480

Dash: I'm very excited

481

Beck: I'm going in completely blind

482

Dash: Yeah.

483

I did too.

484

I mean, when we...

485

I...

486

Like I said, when we started this

movie, there was a time back in the

487

early days of streaming, uh, like

the Wild West of online streaming

488

platforms like Hulu and Netflix, where

they had just weird shit on there.

489

It wasn't major titles.

490

They weren't making their own things.

491

It was just they put this big

like, uh, butterfly net out into

492

the weirdest parts of indie film

s- and then stuck stuff on there.

493

This is how I saw a lot of cool,

like, exploitation stuff on Netflix

494

and a lot of B movies on Hulu.

495

I don't know why, but that was like

their thing, and if you think about it,

496

like, most of the international films

you've seen have been statement pieces.

497

They've been big budget things,

and so what does an international

498

B film really look like?

499

I'm sad that that's gone now, but

that's how I first saw Foxy Merkins.

500

And so, like, we clicked on it.

501

We were like, "Okay.

502

Say more."

503

And then quickly into it I was

like, "My life's different now.

504

I'm changed."

505

Beck: That's how I felt about,

uh, Curse of the Queer Wolf

506

Dash: Yeah.

507

It very, it's, it's very much of that

type, but, a little m- more understated

508

Beck: Yeah.

509

I'm in

510

Dash: I c- I can't believe, I

can't actually believe that I have

511

never gone back and rewatched it.

512

So the only time I've seen

it was back when it came out.

513

That was 2013

514

Beck: Oh, wow

515

Dash: What has your, Is it been

one week since school ended?

516

Beck: Two, I think.

517

Yeah.

518

School was over...

519

Let's look here.

520

Grades were due on the 6th of May,

so that was two weeks and a day, so

521

Dash: So how, is your summer going?

522

Beck: Uh, I've been working

on my dissertation some.

523

I've been teaching my online class.

524

And I've been taking days off a couple

of times because my brain just needed

525

a reset, and I think it'll be...

526

Yeah, so I did that on Tuesday

and Wednesday of this week.

527

I just didn't even open my laptop.

528

I just was like, "Fuck

that," and just didn't.

529

Which is why the newsletter

was late this week.

530

I apologize for everyone for that.

531

That happens sometimes I guess, though.

532

What's this?

533

It's pixelated.

534

I can't see it

535

Dash: No, it says WHS Art Club,

it's, uh, it's orange letters

536

on a q- uh, what is this?

537

Camouflage background.

538

Beck: What does that stand for, WHS?

539

Dash: Williamsburg High School.

540

This is actually

541

Beck: Ooh

542

Dash: school days.

543

This T-shirt is

544

Beck: Oh, I have a couple of those

545

Dash: Yeah

546

Beck: Yeah, this is, this year is my 30

year out of high school, my 30th year.

547

I graduated in '96

548

Dash: are you gonna go

549

Beck: Yeah.

550

Are you

551

Dash: a

552

Beck: go to one?

553

Hell no.

554

Hell no.

555

the people that I, the people that

I wanna see I have friends with

556

on Facebook or some other media.

557

Otherwise those people, God love

'em, they can kiss my big white ass.

558

I don't care.

559

I ain't, I ain't doing it.

560

I ain't going.

561

They tried to organize

562

'Cause I was a class officer.

563

I was, uh, vice president of my junior

and senior class, so I'm supposed to

564

be involved in the planning of that,

and we tried one time to put something

565

together, and the girl who put it together

wanted everybody to spend $150 to come

566

to this event, and everybody was like,

"I don't have that kind of money."

567

And she got pissed.

568

She, like, makes lots of money.

569

You know, she was always the

rich kind of girl, cheerleader.

570

Her mom was the health coach and

the cheerleading coach and all that.

571

But yeah, she tried to make it $150

to come to a dinner, and everybody

572

was like, I c- I was in grad school.

573

I couldn't even afford that,

you know, if I wanted to.

574

Dash: Yehaw

575

Beck: and we've never tried again,

so I figure that's how it'll go.

576

My school does alumni banquets

where anybody from any year can

577

come, and they have tables for all

the different decades and stuff.

578

So I might check out one of those

someday if I'm ever old and really bored.

579

But I don't know.

580

I don't think I would ever.

581

Would, would you go back

to a high school reunion?

582

I can't imagine you would.

583

Dash: Uh, no, I never have.

584

And, and Williamsburg, they're,

they do the same thing.

585

They have a, an alumni g- gala

year, and any alum can attend, and

586

it's, I'm sure it's structured in

some way by when you graduated.

587

But it was such a small school, and the,

the survival rate for our graduates is

588

so low, and then the interest level among

the people who survived, we all left.

589

We peaced the fuck out, right?

590

Beck: Yeah,

591

Dash: I

592

Beck: lot of us did too

593

Dash: with, they're, they live

in Colorado or Nevada or, you

594

know, they're fucking, uh, hippies

that live van life or whatever.

595

David would go to them...

596

I think the first, like, maybe five years

out of high school, he went to the galas.

597

He got something out of it, though.

598

Like, he was popular in high school

and had friends and stuff, and was...

599

He was one of those people, like,

he was expected to go to those.

600

Nobody's looking around wondering

where I am, and if I came in,

601

they would not know I was there.

602

So I'd just be explaining who

I was all night to people.

603

And then the fact that

I look so much like him.

604

So when I...

605

We looked alike before I transitioned.

606

We looked very similar.

607

After transitioning, I began to...

608

look very,

609

Beck: very, just

610

Dash: similar

611

Beck: very

612

Dash: just, like,

613

Beck: similar, just like five

inches shorter My brother

614

and I looked a lot alike too

615

Dash: Right?

616

Imagine taking testosterone.

617

Like, you would, you would turn into him.

618

And so, like, that's...

619

I don't like that, dealing...

620

You know?

621

So there are times when I don't

see, like seeing myself in the

622

mirror because I look like him.

623

So I don't want to...

624

When I, and I get looked at

sometimes on the rare occasion when

625

I'm down, down there, and somebody

who would remember him sees me.

626

It doesn't happen a ton because I'm so

old now, and he's been dead so long,

627

but it, I just live in fear of that.

628

'Cause it's not only, it's,

like, it's about, it would be

629

a conversation about, like, my

630

Beck: My gender, right?

631

The fact that I

transitioned, it would just--

632

Dash: I,

633

Beck: I,

634

Dash: I

635

Beck: I don't think many

of them even know that.

636

Dash: And then

637

Beck: And then it also would

be a conversation about family

638

Dash: I don't like talking

to those people about him.

639

Like, hero worship is just too

640

Beck: Yeah, I hear

641

Dash: Oh,

642

Beck: you.

643

Yeah

644

Dash: It's, it's Memorial Day, isn't it?

645

Goddammit

646

Beck: Is it?

647

No, that's the end of the month

648

Dash: Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.

649

Beck: Oh, I was like, "The what?"

650

Dash: I always become kinda crazy

in, towards the end of May, and every

651

year, even though it's been fucking

20 years now, 20, it's been 18, I'm

652

still surprised that I react this way

mentally and emotionally to Memorial Day.

653

And I don't know what you would think.

654

Maybe if I didn't have ADHD I'd be able

to prepare for the fact that I'm gonna

655

be a mess in the second half of May.

656

Beck: It's Mon- I checked, it's Monday.

657

Dash: yeah, they're gonna,

they're gonna do that, right?

658

The, Jellico's gonna put up the banners.

659

They literally put banners of him up.

660

Have I s- did I show you

that picture last year

661

Beck: No

662

Dash: I'll, I'll find it and send

it to you, but they have this creepy

663

banner of his, You know the little

flyers that you make with the faces

664

on them for a funeral with the...

665

Beck: Mm-hmm.

666

Dash: What are those called?

667

Pamphlet

668

Beck: Through the obituary pamphlet

is what I always called them

669

Dash: Yeah.

670

Yeah, whatever that is.

671

It's that photo of him you know, the,

the street lamps, the banners that

672

they put on street lamps for, like,

673

Beck: Yeah.

674

Dash: stuff.

675

That's where they hang the decorations.

676

Beck: Yeah

677

Dash: one of those, and they

put it on every, every street

678

lamp on Main Street in Jellico

679

Beck: Was he the only one?

680

Dash: I- from Jellico, yeah.

681

Beck: Well

682

Dash: a lot of people d- died in that

war, but they were f- pretty spread out,

683

like, where they were from, you know?

684

So as far as I know, a lot of people

from region went to serve, but he's

685

the only one that was killed in action.

686

Beck: Got ya

687

Dash: it was also, like, that, that

very, like, post 9/11, everybody

688

was super, like, patriotic.

689

and it just stuck with everybody.

690

Also, I think it was just

the fact that it was him.

691

He was so beloved.

692

It's em- it's kinda...

693

It's, it is embarrassing.

694

It's embarrassing the way they hero

worship him multiple times a year.

695

It's on Memorial Day, it's on his

birthday, it's on Veterans Day.

696

When I went back to work at EKU,

' cause the veterans, or, uh, veterans

697

services office there, and at most

universities, but EKU's considered a,

698

uh, military, friend of the military?

699

There's some designation

that, for universities that

700

are supportive of veterans.

701

And this is all a very good thing,

but for, for whatever day it

702

was, I don't, it might have...

703

I swear to God it might have been 9/11

or something, something that didn't

704

make any sense, it could've just

been Veterans Day or Memorial Day.

705

There was the administrative

assistant from the veterans

706

office who heard that I was

707

Beck: I was working My mom

worked at TJ before me.

708

I didn't expect all this to happen

when I came back to work at TJ.

709

All these people who

710

Dash: David, and they were like, "Oh,

I was at your brother's funeral."

711

It was like they, a celebrity sighting,

712

you

713

Beck: You're like, "Hey, me too."

714

" Dash: Right, yeah."

715

And you know, most people it was okay,

but this woman, She ma- she makes this

716

master list of every person who has been

killed in action since 9/11, sets up a

717

stage in the veterans corner there in

the plaza, and has people sign up for

718

blocks to get up and read the names.

719

They just stand there on a microphone

on a stage and read the name of every

720

person who has been killed in action

since 9/11 in some marathon to mark

721

that day, whichever it was, and I c-

don't even wanna know what my face

722

was doing as she's describing this to

me, because it just, just now I was

723

like, "This sounds, it's getting s-

more fucked up the longer I talk."

724

Beck: Right?

725

Dash: And so then she said, she was

like, "Oh, well I, I can arrange it where

726

you're the one who reads his, his name."

727

And that was, I hadn't even put

it together yet that his name

728

was gonna be involved in this.

729

I was just reacting to how ghoulish

this whole, this thing was in general.

730

And so when she said

that, I was like " Whoa.

731

Uh, I want you to take his name out."

732

And she was like, " Excuse me?

733

I can't...

734

I, I'm not gonna do that.

735

This is my program.

736

I do this every year."

737

And I was like all right,

I'm gonna start a big fight."

738

And I...

739

This was kind of like the first time...

740

This happened to me several times, but I

got really, I guess triggered is the word

741

for it, I don't use that word lightly,

while working there, because I was also...

742

When I was in grad school there, I started

like 18 months after he was killed, and

743

so there was already that association.

744

It was just too much emotional

baggage to me working there, because

745

I had transitioned since I left.

746

But I did, I started a

big-ass fight with her boss.

747

I, I like emailed her s- her- the

director of the thing, and I was like

748

"You know, I'm, I'm Gold Star, uh, family.

749

I'm a survivor, and I have requested

that she take his name out of this."

750

making a lot of assumptions about

how we, we should feel about this,

751

because something she said to me

was like, "Well, such and such is

752

reading, and they had multiple die."

753

And I was like, "I'm gonna quote

that when I email your supervisor."

754

And her supervisor, the director of the

center, was a famous cunt, but she knew...

755

She took this seriously.

756

I was like, "I've only worked here like f-

six weeks and I've already gotta do this."

757

So it must have been,

'cause that would've been...

758

I started in July, so yeah, it

must have been September 11th

759

then that she was doing it for.

760

And so I got a reply, and she was

like, "Okay, I will take this out if

761

you absolutely demand that I do it.

762

But it's, you're disrespecting

his memory or whatever."

763

Which was a stupid

thing to put in writing.

764

So, and I, but I didn't say anything

about it 'cause I was like, "Your

765

supervisor is gonna get this."

766

And so yeah, a month later

she no longer worked there.

767

And I'm not super proud of that, right?

768

I didn't want her to lose her job,

but why would she fight me on that?

769

Beck: Right?

770

Dash: Like, it's a simple request.

771

I'm uncomfortable with this

772

Beck: Something similar happened

in Scioto County at the ... There

773

used to be a big department store

called Marting's right downtown

774

and they went out decades ago now.

775

But in the front windows there that,

that faced the Chillicothe Street,

776

they had, uh, like a memorial put

up that had just 100 or, or more

777

pictures of people from the area that

have died from the opioid crisis.

778

And I knew the person who was organizing

it, so I gave them a, an eight by

779

10 of my brother to put in there.

780

And my niece didn't know that I did

that, and she saw it and got very

781

upset and wanted it taken down,

but she didn't know who to contact.

782

And we talked about it years later, and I

was like, "Well, I was responsible for it.

783

Be mad at me," you know?

784

Because I thought it was

important to To show solidarity.

785

We are not alone.

786

This affects every family, you know?

787

He was, uh, y- he was

young, he was handsome.

788

He could have had a bright future, and

it, it took him too, and I thought it was

789

important to put his face to it, you know?

790

But like I said, my niece didn't want

it, so I don't know who gets to decide

791

that, his sister or his daughter

792

Dash: well, she might have, uh,

felt or responded differently

793

had she known it was you, you

794

Beck: Yehaw

795

Dash: it felt like else, it

wasn't their decision to make.

796

But,

797

Beck: She was in high school when

this happened, so she was pretty young

798

Dash: Yehaw And I just, I don't know.

799

I don't like outsiders making...

800

Like, there's just everything

to hate about that, you're...

801

They always lie that it's like,

"I'm honoring them," or whatever.

802

You know, okay, then why

is this about you then?

803

Tell me why you can't take any criticism.

804

I can't make a simple request.

805

This is not about these

people who have died.

806

This is about you.

807

You bo- you gotta be the

one who does this program.

808

Anyway, not to be a bummer

809

Beck: It's not a bummer to

talk about that kind of stuff.

810

It was part of our story

811

Dash: Yeah.

812

Oh, dude, I had a stalker one time

though at at a, a university I worked at.

813

There was this woman who just had

a really intense crush on me, she

814

was a coworker to the point that,

like, I had to report it and stuff.

815

Like, it was, it was creepy.

816

But, she found out...

817

She had Googled me, I guess, and

she had found out what my birth

818

name was, looked it up, found

out about him, 'cause there's...

819

I'm mentioned in articles about him.

820

There was a lot of articles,

and news stories, and things.

821

She found out the day he died and

pa- painted or drew a picture of

822

him, of this creepy ass picture

that's everywhere, And I was like,

823

is one of the most disturbing things

that's ever happened to me at work."

824

And I went and talked to my, uh, my boss

about it, 'cause I, I, and I didn't know.

825

I didn't know what my rights were, right?

826

I'm fucking first generation white trash.

827

I don't know what to do when somebody

828

Beck: Yehaw

829

Dash: you.

830

Was like, "I, even I know, even my

hilljack ass knows that this is weird."

831

and so my supervisor, uh, I was

talking to him about it, and he was

832

like, "Okay, I need to tell you some

things about your rights and stuff."

833

And he said, "I have

some obligations too."

834

he k- he knew that, you know, I,

I didn't have a lot of history

835

in, in white collar spaces.

836

He's a great dude.

837

I was really lucky that he was, I

got to learn the industry from him.

838

But he goes, "You're talking like

you don't fully understand that

839

this is absolutely fucked up."

840

And I was like, "It is, isn't it?"

841

And he said, like, you're not, I-

you're underreacting essentially."

842

Beck: That's what happened

843

Dash: Uh, uh, we, he reported

her and she wasn't allowed to me.

844

She had been texting me.

845

You- it's pretty easy to get a

coworker's phone number apparently.

846

I've never done it personally without, you

know, just the old-fashioned way, asking.

847

Right.

848

you know, she was messaging me on

Teams knowing I had it on my phone.

849

And so we had this order of separation.

850

She was only allowed to contact me

via email about work things, and

851

to, like, check in or whatever,

which I didn't really wanna do.

852

I was actually afraid about

reporting 'cause I, I thought,

853

like, she's gonna be mad at me,

she's got power over me or whatever.

854

It was very um, illuminating

about people don't report.

855

Th- just you can't reassure

somebody on the things that y-

856

that you, they worry about in that

situation, or it's hard to anyway.

857

bef- like, the only reason I knew about it

was because she sent me a picture of it.

858

She texted me a picture of it.

859

She's like, "I have a surprise for you."

860

And I was like, " That

sure is a surprise."

861

Okay

862

Beck: The only weird thing I can

think of that somebody did was

863

an actual girlfriend that I had.

864

Uh, it was my first real girlfriend.

865

We lived together,

866

Dash: Was it the Becky?

867

Beck: Oh, no, that was later on.

868

Her name was Tracy.

869

Yeah, her name, my, my first

girlfriend, her name was Tracy.

870

When, so I left and went to my mom's

for a couple of weeks and let her

871

get all of her shit out, right?

872

And then I came back, and when I came home

she had stolen every pair of socks I had.

873

That is the weirdest thing, and I

still think about it 25 years later.

874

Dash: she

875

Beck: You know?

876

Dash: them?

877

Beck: I don't know.

878

She denies it to this day.

879

And I'm like, "Well, I came home and

had no socks, so somebody took 'em."

880

Like, there was a great

thief in the neighborhood

881

Dash: you're not, like,

gonna mistake that.

882

You know, like, misplacing a pair of

socks is one thing, but all of them?

883

Beck: Right.

884

It was wild.

885

I, I still think about it years later.

886

She also, I came in one day while she

was still living there, and she didn't

887

like that I smoked cigarettes, and she

wouldn't let me smoke in the house.

888

I had to smoke on the porch.

889

So I sat right by that window and

smoked a cigarette right there in the

890

living room just to be an asshole, and

I put it out in the ashtray and I left.

891

And I came back, and there was one

of her boxes was still there, and

892

I looked through it, and she had

taken that cigarette butt and put

893

it in a baggie and wrote a little

note that said, "Last cigarette

894

smoked."

895

And it was like, that's weird.

896

That's, that's, that's weird.

897

Like, she was so obsessive, though.

898

Like, I told her one time I thought I

looked cute in my blue underwear, so

899

therefore I was never allowed to wear

my blue underwear again without being

900

asked who I was trying to be cute for.

901

She was one of those people.

902

Like, she taught me a lot about

who I didn't wanna be with and who

903

I wouldn't be in a relationship.

904

So I value that time, but I was

very stupid She was very controlling

905

Dash: I, I binged actually the second

season of Worst Ex Ever on Netflix,

906

Beck: I saw that.

907

Is it good?

908

Dash: Uh, it's, yeah,

it's good television.

909

It's disturbing.

910

Uh, like, and there's a, a

queer relationship one episode.

911

It's a lesbian relationship.

912

And it was...

913

You know, they did- they don't always

handle those well, and it was kind of...

914

It was interesting, and it was nice

to see, too, like, that was Some of

915

these episodes, like you leave feeling

even more, uh, distrustful of police

916

And so, like, their episode, they at

least had someone, a detective, who

917

was trying to solve, or trying to

help and, and deal with the situation.

918

But it was still like, this is not just

like, "Oh, my ex was kinda controlling."

919

Th- these people were fucking

920

Beck: Yehaw

921

Dash: So if you have that kind of trauma

in your past, I don't recommend it.

922

But it was also kind of, I don't know,

you're, it's, a lot, that television

923

is about voyeurism, you know?

924

Beck: Yehaw

925

Dash: shitty reality TV about

other people's problems.

926

There's that line of exploitation and

voyeurism and stuff or whatever, but

927

like, we all know why we watch it.

928

I also watched The Crash about the,

the teenager that ran her car into

929

a building to kill her boyfriend

who was in the passenger seat

930

Beck: Well, Lord?

931

Dash: And she tried...

932

And it, and they've got,

they've got her on video, right?

933

And so there's, it's disturbing.

934

She was going 100 miles an hour.

935

And first of all, I learned about, a lot

about the forensics that go into proving

936

like who's at fault in an accident, 'cause

they're like, "Yeah, there's a computer

937

in your car that is telling on you."

938

she was, like, trying to do...

939

She was like, "Oh, it was

an accident," or something.

940

Like, you accidentally drove into

a building at 100 miles an hour.

941

And they were like, they pulled up

this chart and they're like, "Well, the

942

computer in your car says that you never

touched the brakes and that the gas pedal

943

was actually at 100% for f- the f- the

five seconds up before you hit that."

944

And I was like, "Oh, shit.

945

Okay.

946

Don't ever try anything

'cause you won't get away with

947

Beck: Right.

948

Wow

949

Dash: But she is a piece of shit

950

Beck: Do you, why do you think it,

it's common knowledge, I think,

951

that domestic violence in lesbian

relationships is especially high,

952

and that bisexual women in particular

face the most amount of, violence.

953

Why do you think that is?

954

This is a topic that comes up every

semester when we talk about domestic

955

violence because people don't even

think about the fact that, you know,

956

uh, two lesbians could have domestic

violence or, you know, what would

957

happen if, if somebody got outed in

the middle of their boyfriend beating

958

them or, you know, all the special

circumstances that might be around it.

959

So it always, it, it's always

an interesting conversation.

960

But I was just wondering what you thought

961

Dash: I believe that that is a factor,

the fact that we don't think about it.

962

We don't think of women as being

capable of n- not just that kind of

963

violence, but we underestimate women.

964

We don't think of women as

being murderers or whatever.

965

Like and, and by we, I mean, like, a

patriarchal culture makes the assumption

966

that women don't have any power.

967

And so two women dating each

other is the definition of benign

968

to this patriarchal hive mind.

969

Maybe that has something to do with it.

970

Uh, in, in regard to bi women

in particular, I mean, I'm sure

971

biphobia plays a part in it.

972

I don't know a ton about

domestic violence like the, the

973

statistics and things like that.

974

I know that you do know, so I

tr- I definitely believe you.

975

I think, though, that it is an escalation.

976

I don't think many...

977

Like, I've watched a lot of these

shitty documentaries, I've read

978

memoirs and I've studied people.

979

My research is on group

identity and, and motivation,

980

self-esteem, and stuff like that.

981

People aren't going into contexts going,

"I one day will become a physical abuser."

982

But they, then they do, and

it, it, you ask them how it

983

got there, they don't know.

984

They can't explain how that

escalation got there, and I think

985

that we ignore women in particular

986

Beck: I think the cycle of violence

has something to do with it.

987

You know, the idea that you start out

in the honeymoon phase, and then there's

988

tension building and then an explosion.

989

And the more times this cycle

happens the, the smaller the, the

990

time between the explosion and the

tension grow to the point that it's

991

just explosion after explosion.

992

So I think part of it is the, the

volatility of ... A, a lot of people

993

who are, are out are not in safe spaces

in their families or their communities.

994

A- there's a lot of queers that

don't have a good job, I think

995

a lot of that plays into it.

996

Dash: The insular nature of a marginalized

community like that I mean, it, it could

997

be similar pressures those that increase

substance use or risk-taking behavior.

998

Trauma, like trauma plays a part in

general well- or mental wellness in

999

a community like ours And we know

a lot about what childhood trauma

00:45:37,134 --> 00:45:41,214

does to a person as they mature.

00:45:41,374 --> 00:45:45,964

And lot of, uh, queer folks,

of our generation anyway,

00:45:46,464 --> 00:45:47,674

that was their experience.

00:45:48,174 --> 00:45:52,084

That's a good question, though, and

it's so difficult to treat something

00:45:52,084 --> 00:45:59,394

like that without falling into unhelpful

generalizations or harmful stereotypes or

00:45:59,394 --> 00:46:02,624

reductive reasoning that misses the point.

00:46:03,124 --> 00:46:06,284

And of course, the people who would be

capable of that kind of reas- oh, well,

00:46:06,284 --> 00:46:09,914

we recently re- defunded all, all of

that kind of research, so we'll never

00:46:09,980 --> 00:46:14,160

Beck: Right No, we'll, we'll

swing back to the left eventually

00:46:14,660 --> 00:46:18,673

Dash: I mean, yeah, and, and maybe

it's just a pendulum, but I, I

00:46:18,673 --> 00:46:23,033

just hope the anti-intellectualism

never reaches this point again

00:46:23,237 --> 00:46:24,547

Beck: Yeah, I'm with you on that

00:46:25,047 --> 00:46:26,967

Dash: But higher ed kinda has it coming.

00:46:26,967 --> 00:46:30,937

I mean, they played their part in making

people not want to associate with us.

00:46:31,437 --> 00:46:32,757

Well, this has been fun.

00:46:32,757 --> 00:46:34,947

Maybe it's time to hear

from this week's sponsor.

00:46:35,769 --> 00:46:37,019

Oh, no

00:46:37,374 --> 00:46:37,814

Beck: What?

00:46:37,816 --> 00:46:41,080

Dash: what I wrote this about.

00:46:41,550 --> 00:46:44,660

This episode of Queernecks is

brought to you by trauma bonding.

00:46:48,525 --> 00:46:48,858

Hmm.

00:46:50,672 --> 00:46:52,042

Beck: Isn't it ironic?

00:46:52,962 --> 00:46:53,542

Don't you think?

00:46:56,510 --> 00:46:59,980

Dash: The emotional gorilla

glue of the rural working class.

00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,410

It's like team building, but for

people with no options and shit to do.

00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:08,060

It's that invisible, unbreakable tether

that snaps into place the exact second

00:47:08,090 --> 00:47:12,760

you and another person survive the same

highly specific, deeply chaotic ordeal

00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:16,780

that city folks would need three years

of expensive talk therapy to unpack.

00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,090

Before anyone taught us what words

like boundary or codependency

00:47:21,090 --> 00:47:23,010

were, we just called it friendship.

00:47:23,770 --> 00:47:27,220

the relationship dynamic that doesn't

start with small talk about the weather.

00:47:27,220 --> 00:47:31,040

It starts because you were both trapped

00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,770

Blazer during a flash flood, or because

you spent three hours together in the

00:47:34,770 --> 00:47:38,264

principal's office waiting to find out

if the sheriff was gonna be involved.

00:47:38,764 --> 00:47:42,704

We are talking about that kind

of bond that can only be forged

00:47:42,704 --> 00:47:44,564

in the fires of mutual absurdity.

00:47:44,764 --> 00:47:47,314

You didn't become close because

you liked the same music.

00:47:47,314 --> 00:47:50,464

You became close because you both

worked the late shift at a gas station

00:47:50,464 --> 00:47:54,224

where the ice machine was possessed

by a vengeful spirit, or because

00:47:54,224 --> 00:47:58,245

you share the exact same look of

mild dissociation whenever brings

00:47:58,245 --> 00:48:00,125

up a specific Sunday school teacher.

00:48:00,625 --> 00:48:04,865

There is a shorthand here that bypasses

the normal human courtship process.

00:48:05,615 --> 00:48:08,855

don't have to explain your family tree

or why you get a little twitchy when

00:48:08,855 --> 00:48:10,445

your phone rings at two in the morning.

00:48:10,475 --> 00:48:11,355

They already know.

00:48:11,735 --> 00:48:14,015

They were there when the

tree fell through the roof.

00:48:14,045 --> 00:48:17,175

They know exactly what kind of mood

your dad was in based on how he parked

00:48:17,175 --> 00:48:20,575

the truck on the gravel, and they've

kept secrets for you that are legally

00:48:20,575 --> 00:48:22,565

binding in the court of public opinion.

00:48:23,087 --> 00:48:26,167

It's the kind of loyalty where you

could go five years without speaking,

00:48:26,197 --> 00:48:28,927

but if they call you from the ditch

at midnight with a flat tire and a

00:48:28,927 --> 00:48:32,127

trunk full of something they ought

not have, you don't ask questions.

00:48:32,507 --> 00:48:35,367

You just grab jumper cables,

a shovel, and hit the road.

00:48:35,867 --> 00:48:39,827

So trauma bonding, helping rural folks

mistake adrenaline for affection since

00:48:39,827 --> 00:48:43,547

the first time two teenagers tried to

outrun a property owner with a flashlight.

00:48:44,007 --> 00:48:47,077

And now back to Queernecks, where we're

still trying to figure out if our mutual

00:48:47,077 --> 00:48:50,987

respect is based on a shared worldview or

just the fact that we've both seen things

00:48:50,987 --> 00:48:52,807

we aren't allowed to talk about in public.

00:48:54,876 --> 00:48:56,056

Beck: I'd say it's a little of both

00:48:56,556 --> 00:48:58,486

Dash: Maybe that has

something to do with it.

00:48:58,986 --> 00:48:59,336

I don't know.

00:48:59,336 --> 00:49:02,886

Have you ever been the asshole

in a relationship or a breakup?

00:49:03,386 --> 00:49:06,066

Beck: I mean, I broke up with

Tracy and she took it real

00:49:06,066 --> 00:49:07,546

hard, but it was her fault.

00:49:07,616 --> 00:49:09,316

Like 100%, it was her fault

00:49:09,394 --> 00:49:10,414

Dash: that's not the...

00:49:10,764 --> 00:49:11,944

Yeah, that's not what I mean.

00:49:11,944 --> 00:49:15,494

I mean, like, not necessarily

abuser, but just the asshole, like

00:49:15,494 --> 00:49:18,194

the, the instigator, the problem.

00:49:18,694 --> 00:49:19,144

Beck: No.

00:49:19,204 --> 00:49:21,374

Uh, 'cause I've only had a

few, uh, real girlfriends.

00:49:21,874 --> 00:49:25,264

Dash: I don't know if everybody has

that experience, but I sure was.

00:49:25,504 --> 00:49:25,744

I did

00:49:25,818 --> 00:49:26,308

Beck: Yehaw

00:49:26,808 --> 00:49:27,068

Dash: Yeah.

00:49:27,638 --> 00:49:28,348

And it, and it...

00:49:28,448 --> 00:49:29,498

That's what I was talking about earlier.

00:49:29,498 --> 00:49:34,428

Like, I didn't hit anybody, but I wasn't

nice, and I was cruel in specific ways,

00:49:34,458 --> 00:49:40,241

and I couldn't explain to you how it

ever escalated to be so cruel especially

00:49:40,241 --> 00:49:43,181

to somebody that I or was addicted to.

00:49:43,661 --> 00:49:47,631

And, like, I learned a lot about

myself during those breakups,

00:49:47,691 --> 00:49:50,701

but it was, it was awful.

00:49:50,841 --> 00:49:51,271

Beck: Yehaw

00:49:51,771 --> 00:49:53,331

Dash: Never before or since.

00:49:53,511 --> 00:49:56,331

It was just something about that

moment and, and of course it was a

00:49:56,361 --> 00:49:59,071

love triangle 'cause they were dating

each other, I was dating both of them.

00:49:59,311 --> 00:50:00,631

One was a f- former

00:50:00,935 --> 00:50:05,415

Beck: Former ex who got together with

his other former ex in the past Thursday.

00:50:05,455 --> 00:50:06,955

But it was just a really

bad situation Right

00:50:07,455 --> 00:50:09,065

Dash: And it went on for like four years,

00:50:09,521 --> 00:50:10,181

Beck: Oh, wow.

00:50:10,681 --> 00:50:15,401

No, I, I dated Tracy for, for about

two years, and then we broke up, and

00:50:15,401 --> 00:50:17,691

I dated another girl for about a year.

00:50:18,071 --> 00:50:21,881

And then Tracy changed according

to her, and so we dated for

00:50:21,881 --> 00:50:24,081

another s- eight months or so.

00:50:24,431 --> 00:50:28,111

And then Shana and I met, and we got

back ... Or Shana and I got together, and

00:50:28,151 --> 00:50:29,711

I haven't ever looked back since then.

00:50:30,181 --> 00:50:32,921

So Sh- Tracy would tell

you that I'm the asshole.

00:50:32,991 --> 00:50:34,321

She would definitely tell you that.

00:50:34,751 --> 00:50:35,031

But

00:50:35,031 --> 00:50:35,541

Dash: Right.

00:50:35,591 --> 00:50:37,061

I mean, that, that's subjective.

00:50:37,061 --> 00:50:37,751

Everybody feels

00:50:37,773 --> 00:50:38,273

Beck: Yehaw

00:50:38,911 --> 00:50:40,741

Dash: Everyone's trying to win the breakup

00:50:41,375 --> 00:50:43,085

Beck: I didn't steal her

socks though, you know?

00:50:43,295 --> 00:50:43,825

Like

00:50:44,325 --> 00:50:48,305

Dash: A- people in any given normal

breakup could say the other person

00:50:48,305 --> 00:50:49,765

had done wrong and be correct,

00:50:50,366 --> 00:50:51,156

Beck: Yeah Because nobody's perfect.

00:50:51,156 --> 00:50:51,386

We all

00:50:51,585 --> 00:50:51,845

Dash: up.

00:50:52,345 --> 00:50:52,625

Beck: Yeah

00:50:53,125 --> 00:50:57,835

Dash: but being the monster,

that's a truly unique experience

00:50:57,835 --> 00:51:00,205

that, you know, not everybody has.

00:51:00,275 --> 00:51:00,675

And,

00:51:00,788 --> 00:51:01,238

Beck: Yehaw

00:51:01,785 --> 00:51:05,205

Dash: that's als- that's just informed my

life in general since then of being like,

00:51:05,285 --> 00:51:07,625

"Oh, God, the potential that's in here."

00:51:08,125 --> 00:51:09,485

It actually informed my research.

00:51:09,695 --> 00:51:11,865

It's one of the reasons why

I research group motivation,

00:51:11,865 --> 00:51:13,515

self-esteem, identity, and monsters

00:51:14,172 --> 00:51:16,272

Beck: Yehaw That's so interesting

00:51:21,773 --> 00:51:23,423

There must be something

going on in my hallway.

00:51:23,423 --> 00:51:24,893

Both girls are staring at the door

00:51:25,393 --> 00:51:26,723

Dash: Maybe somebody's cooking something

00:51:27,223 --> 00:51:27,723

Beck: Maybe.

00:51:28,223 --> 00:51:30,863

Somebody uses a lot of garlic

in this hallway, I know that

00:51:31,363 --> 00:51:31,973

Dash: Hell yeah.

00:51:32,473 --> 00:51:33,543

Everything needs garlic

00:51:34,043 --> 00:51:37,683

Beck: I, uh, did some fine dining earlier

today and made my spiral mac and cheese.

00:51:37,683 --> 00:51:38,563

It was delicious.

00:51:38,913 --> 00:51:41,753

It was Rue's first time having mac

and cheese, and she's a big fan

00:51:42,253 --> 00:51:44,063

Dash: What is spiral mac and cheese?

00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,369

Beck: It's Kraft macaroni and cheese,

but they're little spiral noodles.

00:51:47,399 --> 00:51:48,049

They're really good.

00:51:48,229 --> 00:51:49,729

I like 'em better than regular noodles.

00:51:50,229 --> 00:51:51,499

It holds the cheese sauce better

00:51:51,715 --> 00:51:52,435

Dash: I like those.

00:51:53,045 --> 00:51:53,445

Mm-hmm.

00:51:53,895 --> 00:51:55,705

I like those with Alfredo sauce

00:51:56,205 --> 00:52:00,005

Beck: I don't like Parmesan all that

much, so Alfredo sauce isn't my favorite

00:52:00,505 --> 00:52:01,905

Dash: Didn't know it was made out of that.

00:52:02,539 --> 00:52:02,959

Beck: Yehaw

00:52:03,635 --> 00:52:07,635

Dash: I picked up some, I got some

pork and I picked up some beans

00:52:07,635 --> 00:52:11,725

and chili spices, so I'm gonna

make, I'm gonna make some chili.

00:52:12,225 --> 00:52:12,705

Beck: Nice

00:52:12,949 --> 00:52:13,969

Dash: real things

00:52:14,469 --> 00:52:16,659

Beck: I need to clean out my

refrigerator is what I need to do,

00:52:16,819 --> 00:52:17,969

and then go to the grocery store

00:52:18,469 --> 00:52:20,929

Dash: Well, do you have a

noun of Appalachian interest?

00:52:21,493 --> 00:52:22,043

Beck: I do.

00:52:22,043 --> 00:52:23,373

I did a fun one today.

00:52:26,371 --> 00:52:29,891

All right, this week's noun of

Appalachian interest is the burning

00:52:29,891 --> 00:52:33,841

couches of West Virginia University,

which is one of those traditions that

00:52:33,841 --> 00:52:35,941

makes people say, "Is this culture?"

00:52:35,971 --> 00:52:37,701

And the answer is, "Well, it is now."

00:52:38,191 --> 00:52:41,521

If you've never been to Morgantown,

West Virginia, let me paint the picture.

00:52:41,851 --> 00:52:46,791

WVU wins a big game, the town is

excited, students are yelling, somebody's

00:52:46,791 --> 00:52:49,991

cousin is climbing a street sign,

and then somewhere in the distance,

00:52:49,991 --> 00:52:51,691

a couch begins its final journey.

00:52:52,131 --> 00:52:55,831

Now, I wanna be fair, not every

WVU student has burned a couch.

00:52:55,831 --> 00:52:59,391

Most students are just trying to pass

biology, find parking, and figure out

00:52:59,391 --> 00:53:03,041

why rent is so high for a house with a

porch that leans like it has secrets.

00:53:03,391 --> 00:53:06,491

But the couch fires have become

famous enough that, for a while,

00:53:06,751 --> 00:53:09,711

people outside of West Virginia

acted like every dorm room came with

00:53:09,711 --> 00:53:11,401

a lighter and an emergency sofa.

00:53:11,901 --> 00:53:14,864

The couch fire thing mostly became

linked to big sports moments,

00:53:14,864 --> 00:53:16,504

especially football and basketball.

00:53:16,854 --> 00:53:20,944

A win could do it, a loss could do it,

a tense game could do it, and at some

00:53:20,944 --> 00:53:24,314

point, the couch was less furniture

and more emotional support kindling.

00:53:24,724 --> 00:53:26,884

And listen, I am not

here to encourage arson.

00:53:26,884 --> 00:53:28,244

Please do not burn your couch.

00:53:28,474 --> 00:53:32,084

Sit on it, nap on it, eat shredded cheese

over the sink, and then return to it,

00:53:32,374 --> 00:53:34,254

but do not set it on fire in the street.

00:53:34,254 --> 00:53:37,034

The fire department has enough

to do, and your landlord already

00:53:37,034 --> 00:53:40,544

thinks you are a problem What makes

the burning couch interesting,

00:53:40,544 --> 00:53:42,154

though, is how it became a symbol.

00:53:42,184 --> 00:53:47,154

It turned into this weird shorthand for

WVU party culture and Morgantown chaos.

00:53:47,414 --> 00:53:50,764

It was funny, but it was also became a

headache for the city, the university,

00:53:51,074 --> 00:53:54,054

and everybody trying to convince

the rest of the country that West

00:53:54,054 --> 00:53:57,550

Virginia is more than one viral photo

of upholstery meeting its maker.

00:53:58,100 --> 00:53:59,240

Because that's the tricky part.

00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:02,610

When people from outside Appalachia

hear a story like this, they sometimes

00:54:02,610 --> 00:54:06,290

use it as proof of every lazy

stereotype they already had about us.

00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,860

They don't see students being

ridiculous in the same way

00:54:08,860 --> 00:54:10,580

students are ridiculous everywhere.

00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:13,923

They see West Virginia behavior,

which is not, the same thing.

00:54:14,305 --> 00:54:17,405

And let me tell you, as a college

professor, I know what college students

00:54:17,435 --> 00:54:19,375

everywhere are capable of nonsense.

00:54:19,665 --> 00:54:21,195

Some schools flip cars.

00:54:21,235 --> 00:54:22,975

Some schools tear down goalposts.

00:54:23,235 --> 00:54:25,175

Some schools act like they invented beer.

00:54:25,515 --> 00:54:28,515

WVU just happened to have a

couch-based brand identity.

00:54:29,055 --> 00:54:31,925

There is something very Appalachian

about the object itself, too.

00:54:31,925 --> 00:54:32,675

Not the fire.

00:54:32,965 --> 00:54:34,405

Again, do not burn your couch.

00:54:34,655 --> 00:54:37,455

But the couch, the old porch couch,

the basement couch, the couch that

00:54:37,455 --> 00:54:40,205

has survived four roommates, three

dogs, one breakup, and a mysterious

00:54:40,205 --> 00:54:41,655

stain nobody wants to discuss.

00:54:42,215 --> 00:54:45,535

In Appalachia, a couch can be indoor

furniture, outdoor furniture, a

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guest bed, a therapy office, or

even a place where your uncle falls

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asleep after Thanksgiving dinner.

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So when a couch gets dragged

into the street in Morgantown,

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it's not just a couch, it's a

sacrifice to the sports gods.

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It is a bad decision with cushions.

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It is a public safety issue

wearing plaid upholstery.

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WVU and Morgantown have worked

hard over the years to stop

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the fires, and good for them.

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Nobody needs a flaming sectional

blocking traffic after a basketball game.

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But as folklore, the burning couch

has already done what folklore does.

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It stuck.

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It became a story that people tell, roll

their eyes at, laugh about, and try to

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explain to outsiders without sounding