Not seen it?

We'll help you decide if this superhero adventure is your kind of movie — completely spoiler free.

Seen it?

We reveal things you may have missed, the details you didn't notice and uncover the hidden layers behind the film.

This week, Marc, Darren and Paul crack open Spider-Man (2002), the blockbuster that introduced a new generation to Marvel's friendly neighbourhood superhero.

PART 1 – The Nutshell – If you haven't seen it

A spoiler-free breakdown designed to help you decide if this superhero adventure is your kind of film and worth your time.

We explore the story of an ordinary teenager whose life changes forever, as he learns that extraordinary abilities come with extraordinary responsibility.

We'll help you quickly understand the tone, style and experience of the film, from its blend of action, humour and romance to the comic book adventure that helped redefine superhero movies for a new generation.

By the end of Part 1, you will have made a decision!

PART 2 – The Unboxing – If you've seen it

What Did You Miss?

The things you missed, the details you didn't notice, and the hidden layers behind the film.

The lads reveal things you may have overlooked, explore hidden details, visual references and filmmaking choices, and uncover why this film became such an important moment in comic book movie history.

Paul's Facts of the Day

Behind-the-scenes insights including:

• Practical effects you probably assumed were CGI
• Sam Raimi's comic book passion
• Willem Dafoe's incredible commitment to the role
• The making of one of cinema's most iconic kisses
• Fascinating production stories from behind the scenes

Hate It or Rate It?

Marc, Darren & Paul submit their scores and Spider-Man takes its place in the Legend League.

PART 3 – Listener Lounge – All about you!

The Lobby

Your emails, questions, comments and stories.

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Hate the way they will storm into his bedroom as well.

Yeah, he could have been having a wank.

I did.

Yeah.

Facts.

Now that's a Spider man film.

Imagine the webbing.

Dear makers of Spider man drink better alcohol.

Who was your whiskey better on this?

Did they give you just lots of free makers, Mark?

Because if you did, I'm here for that.

I would have made exactly the same.

Hello and welcome to Movies in a Nutshell with me, Mark Farquhar, myself, Darren.

Horn and I, Paul Day.

Here's why you should tune in every week.

We help you make better movie choices on films you haven't seen with quick spoiler free breakdowns to help you decide if they're your kind of movie.

And we help you get more from the movies you have seen with things you missed and details you probably didn't know us.

Plus there's movie facts, trivia and behind the scenes stories.

There's also your chance to choose the movie.

So grab some popcorn and let's crack open this week's movie.

Welcome back, gentlemen.

Here we are.

This was your choice yesterday.

This is me.

Yeah, Well, I just thought there's a new one coming out, isn't there?

Brand new day, I want to say, with Tom Holland and Zendaya.

Yep.

Yes.

So that's out soon, maybe somewhere around this podcast being released right about now, about end of July, I think it comes out.

So I thought, let's tie it in.

And also when we were doing one of the bonus episodes, the franchise Spider man on the leaderboard, like, oh yeah, we haven't done one of them yet.

I thought, let's go back.

Toby McGowan.

This is where it all started.

Had there been any actual.

Is this the first proper movie about Spider Man?

Proper movie.

So I grew up very quickly on a TV show with a guy called Nicholas Hammond and it was like from the 70s.

Does anyone else remember this or is it just me?

Was that the one that was like shot in San Francisco or Chicago somewhere where there was no skyscrapers?

It had like groovy 70s music and it was like a TV show.

It's called what?

Spider Man.

Spider Man.

Don't remember.

Like animated?

No, no, no.

There's been loads of animations, but this was like a TV show.

It was kind of as bad as the Adam West TV show, but not as fun.

I loved it.

And this is from when.

When was it on?

The seventies, I think.

Okay.

But I saw it in the eighties.

There was nothing for him to like he'd launch his web thing into the sky.

There's no buildings up there.

I was he swinging from.

I was young enough to not care.

It was.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah, I think.

Okay.

I think the Hulk show was better.

Maybe.

That was actually really good from.

I remember Lou Ferrangi.

So, yes, we went on a slight tangent, as we do.

But yeah, this is the first sort.

Of Toby Maguire, the original of the modern Superman.

We're in the nutshell where we'll break the movie down.

Spoiler free.

To help you decide if Spider man is your kind of movie and if it's worth your time.

I mean, to break this down.

This is the class.

This is the original, the definitive story of how Spider man became Spider Man.

Yeah.

And it's very much like the Amazing Spider man or Spider Verse or the other Spider man and the other Spider Man.

But the beauty of this one is, which we must remember as we go through this is.

This is the first one.

So when this came out, it was a novelty.

It wasn't like, oh, here's another one.

400 Spider Man.

And it's like post Matrix.

So the special effects is just about got good enough that it was almost believable that he was hurting down because that was the first time we'd seen that.

We take it for granted.

Like we've been on like bread and butter, stale bread and butter in terms of comic book movies in the past, before then.

And I kept reminding myself of that when I was making notes.

It's like when we first saw him swinging down the street and doing all the stuff, we were like, whoa.

They've actually done Spider man properly now.

They watch it and go, well, it's like all the other 400 Spider Man.

And like you say, we've had that many comic book movies now.

We've seen portals open in the sky, team ups.

We've had all kinds of stuff, haven't we?

We had 10 golden years of Marvel there where it kind of took over the world.

It was.

But this is kind of where it started.

So those X Men going on.

Yeah.

But before that, you're Superman and Batman.

So you Christopher Reeve, Superman.

And you, Michael Keaton, Batman.

Oh, well, I suppose the Batman's run into 97, I think.

Talk about those.

And that's when that kind of went.

So this was kind of the resurgence of comic book movies and this as.

The beginning of a retelling of a modern story.

Starts off quite basic for anyone who hasn't seen it.

This.

Yes.

This is not a complex movie.

No, it's an origin story.

It's a good versus evil.

Yeah.

It's student gets bitten by a radioactive spider giving him the powers of Spider Man.

That's pretty much it.

I mean I don't know who wouldn't know that a man, a man has become a spider.

It's like that friends episode, Phil Spiderman.

So he's not.

It's not Phil Spider Man.

He is the Spider Man Spiderman.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's good versus evil.

It's a simple hero's journey.

It's not overly complicated.

It's quite simple.

It's quite.

Would you say what kind of watch is?

It's quite a simple watch, yeah.

It's basically a cartoon in film form.

It's kind of like first live action kind of one of this franchise.

Yeah.

My favorite Spider man was five Spider man and his amazing friends with fire fit star.

And is this not cartoon?

Yeah, yeah, just checking.

Yeah, that's what I mean because I was like this is basically a cartoon.

So it feels inspired by those kind of surface level aimed at children audience.

And I think this hit the teen market quite big because I think there's a lot of kids who've grown upon Spider Man.

So I want to say.

Yeah, so like old school comic book fans would have been all over this when it first came out because it was the first time a live action one of these had ever come out.

Well, I'll tell you the stats, how massive it was at the time.

Yeah, Spider Man's one of the, the biggest.

I always think it's always way, way bigger than I think he's going to be and then like worldwide.

Spider Man's just huge.

Well, you see the kids always got Spider man memorabilia even before Minecraft, before any of that and they're still to this day.

So it's like super popular on and off screen.

Absolutely.

And.

And the other note I wrote down is this is a good film maybe to.

If you haven't done comic book movies because there's now so many of them and some of them interlink and some are in different universes and it's this whole thing.

Well, as a person here, I'm not ready to be a movie.

This is the beginning of.

I mean I did see this when it first I didn't go to cinema but whenever it came out on video or dvd.

Yeah.

You said you got Blu Ray with your player or something.

No, but that was years Later.

Oh, I see.

I'd already seen it, like, not long after it, like maybe when it first came out on video dvd.

One of my friends had it.

We watched it.

Yeah.

So that was my first entrance into that sort of the Marvel, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

So that's my first sort of entrance into that.

So I'll have some thoughts on that later.

Yeah.

And it is a standalone, so you could watch this in.

In its entirety and feel like you've had a full meal.

There's no cliffhanger ending where it's like, oh, well, we'll get into that later on.

But you could still watch this as a piece.

Or you could watch the Sam Raimi trilogy, or you could then watch the next few with Andrew Garfield and then you can watch the next one with Tom and it all comes together and.

Because it's going to be a Gen X and millennial nostalgia fest to watch this.

Yes.

And then if it's like Gen Z, you might go watch it to make sense of the new Tom Holland ones, particularly the third movie.

Or if you're just interested in how it all began.

Yeah.

Some people might want to go back,.

Potentially, because the Tom Holland one doesn't really deal with the origin story, does.

The Andrew Garford one.

Yes.

Okay.

But it does in a slightly different way.

But I remember when that one came out, there's a lot of controversy that they were redoing that because it's like it's not that long since we've had the Tobey Maguire one.

So there was a lot of backlash in that sense because that did the origin, although, albeit in a different way, it still did some of the stuff we're going to talk about in this one.

It's also got some of the classic things, got superhero action, you've got comic book villains, but there's a bit of humor in there.

Romance, always going to be romance in there.

And spectacular New York landscape, like shots, cinematography.

Yeah.

And it's probably closer to.

Don't see if you agree with this.

And the kind of Superman films is when the Marvel's universe gets going later on.

It's probably closer.

Okay.

Yes.

More meets Tim Burton's Batman, I reckon.

Yeah, both of them were, but it was before it became this sort of interlinked web.

Yeah.

Of films where you have to kind of keep going and because a lot of them, by the end of it, you couldn't really just put on one.

Could you just jump in in the middle?

Maybe the early ones.

It actually breaks my heart because if I ever do get into a relationship and I want to explain Marvel to them, that's a lot of fucking work.

It's a lot of films.

They haven't seen him.

I'm just like, jesus, someone, Darren, someone will have explained this online.

Just send them a link to that video.

If I suddenly start crying in the car and they're like, why are you crying?

I'm like, because when Sam says on your left and the portal opens and Captain America thought he was going to have to fight the whole army on his own, that's why.

What are you talking about?

And some listeners might be very well going, what are you talking about?

Or when Wanda's defending vision and she thinks she's outnumbered and she's all going to go bad.

And then the train goes past and I cry and cheer at the same time.

Mark, don't worry.

There's about 27 films to get through before you're on about.

This is a slight issue, but that's the beauty of this.

It's a standalone.

You're getting the origin story.

It's Sam Raimi who.

But he got the job.

He's a massive comic book fan.

This was kind of his big.

Had to be done by a comic book fan.

And this was kind of his big.

Not break because he was already big as being his own like cult little following, I suppose, didn't he went and did already.

Dr.

Strange 2.

Yeah, he did.

He came back to the Marvels universe, didn't he?

But he did lots of other bigger projects, maybe off the back of the Spider man films.

So this is probably the thing he's most well known for even to this day.

And obviously for Tobey Maguire it was a big boost.

Kirsten Dunst was famous already.

She'd been in various.

Well, she'd been in Interview with a Vampire when she was like what, 10 or something?

And she'd been in lots of things.

Well, this was kind of a big stepping stone.

Stepping stone.

James Franco.

This was kind of his launching ground as well.

William Defoe.

Yeah, I was called William Willem.

William Defoe always seems like a spelling mistake that.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean he was already massive when he did this, but I guess this kind of put him in a different bracket as well.

So.

Cool.

I think we've covered everything there.

It doesn't need over explaining.

No, it's got what you would imagine.

And if you've seen the latest Spider man films.

And you want to see where it all kind of developed from, like how the costume changes and all that might be interesting from a retro point of view.

I'm a millennial, so I'm right in the bracket of.

It's hitting the nostalgia buttons for me.

So I don't know about you, Darren, you look in a bit older when this came out.

No, I just meant in terms of what you were saying.

It's like a kids comic bookie film.

So I was still sort of like,.

Well, the gap between you two is bigger than the gap between me and you.

I mean, I'm four years younger than you, where you're three years younger than me.

That's why I said that I didn't need to sound.

So it's like eight years.

That's quite a.

When you were younger.

That's quite a. Yeah, it is, yeah.

I would have been 24.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm thinking like, you was as excited that this.

Yeah, I was 21.

I don't remember being excited.

Yeah, he was 24, I was 21.

What was that?

18, 19, Something like that.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

So, yeah, so I was quite excited for it still.

But that's why I'm thinking you might have been a bit more cynical, like, ah, try to adapt comic book films again, Damn them.

I don't really.

I don't have a clear memory of seeing it at the cinema, so that's interesting.

And I suspect I would have been at uni studying film, so I don't know.

I had a fun year that year because, you know, Attack of the Clowns came out, which I know.

Anyway, I knew that GROM was coming.

That probably meant that I hadn't gone.

I then boycotted this in a month for like four years.

Right, let's move on then.

So thank you, gentlemen.

That takes us into part two, the unboxing.

So spoiler territory ahead.

If you haven't seen the movie and you've decided you do want to go watch it, we recommend you go watch it come back because from this point forward there will be spoilers in the unboxing.

We have what did you miss?

Where we reveal things you may have missed.

Even if you've seen the movie many times, Paul has his facts of the day and then we finish off with Hate it or Rate it, where we each give a brief opinion, score out of 10, and we see where it lands on the legend leak.

I'm gonna go to you, Paul, for what did you miss, since it's your choice.

Oh, this is scary.

Because you always go to Darren.

I know.

Okay, well, I'll say some stuff and then Darren can give us what we actually missed.

For me, a lot of the stuff that we missed is probably what I said already in the nutshell about the fact of the timing of it all and the fact that superhero films were sort of just having this resurgence again.

There's kind of a theme around transformation enhancement.

But then that because he's in high school, you've also got that coming of age growing up story.

Worked in with that, which I think was always part of the original Spider man stories as well.

I was wondering, because I obviously didn't read the comics.

I was wondering how true this was to comics.

Yeah.

So like the actual origin story.

So I've got the original comic.

It's not the original original.

Have you.

Wow.

It's like.

It's like a reprint I got with.

What you still do with the day job.

I know it's a reprint I got with a video at some point.

But it very much tells this story.

And it's the Stan Lee, Steve Ditko story of how he becomes Spider Man.

You know, he gets bitten by the radioactive spider in here.

There's various things that slightly different in this to the comics.

So things like the web shooters.

Well, in this film there isn't any web shooters.

That's the difference.

So in this film he kind of makes the web shooters.

They just come out of him.

Whereas in the comics and a lot of the other things, including the 70s TV show and the cartoon series, there's.

Like some sort of device.

Yeah.

Like a web shooter device that you would.

Seems more natural if he's been bitten by a spider and he's supposed to becoming a spider.

That would just come out of him.

Exactly.

But that might be something people.

I remember people arguing at the time, like, oh, you haven't got the web shooters.

Because there was a very popular animated series in the 90s that I used to watch when I was a kid.

And it was very much.

You'd always run out of his web cartridges and you'd be like, oh no, how's he gonna do cartridges?

And then you get.

That sounds like someone who's trying to become a spider rather than someone who just accidentally is becoming it naturally.

Bionically.

Yeah, it's true.

But then that's something they did in the Andrew Garfield ones as a bit of a change.

So he had his web shoot.

Was right.

And Tom Holland.

Yeah, I think he Was the same.

He was sort of Tony Stark helped him make him or he came up with them and had the suit.

So yeah, concepts of coming of age, change, transformation.

And you also see this duality going on which you see in this is why we're probably thinking of Batman and some of them films because you've got Batman over here and you've got the Joker over here.

And they kind of do a similar thing here with Spider man versus the Green Goblin.

William.

William.

It is a very laughy, jokey kind of voice.

When he puts.

It's almost like the mask.

Yeah, when he puts the mask on, it's like someone else.

And he's got that, it's got that theme of duality running through all of this.

Also.

Parents dead.

Hello, Batman.

Hello.

Anyone?

Look, even referencing Superman in this movie, you're not Superman.

Yeah, yeah.

There's a few nods, isn't there?

And actually Superman to our nerdiest Fans listening is D.C. and this is Marvel.

So I hope they got copyright to do that.

Yeah, I want to mention it to get copyright dimension.

I don't know.

Wow.

You know, touchy these studios are.

But the only other thing you might have missed is the fact that Bruce Campbell from Evil Dead and various.

Well, every Sam Raimi film ever has Bruce Campbell does it pretty much.

So he's in there.

He's in all three of the Spider Mans with the Sam Raimi's but he turns up in different roles, obviously.

This one, he's the announcer in the boxing ring.

In the second one I remember, he's the guy he's trying to get in the theater and he's.

He's on the door there.

So just random roles.

Just random roles.

And it's Bruce Campbell popping up.

So I don't think I can think of anything else.

Darren, what have you got?

Likewise with the Batman thing, it feels like they were like, oh, we're gonna do another comic book movie, but we need to do it successfully.

What do we do now?

Oh, the most successful comic book review so far is basically Batman.

So let's take a bat and a spider.

Let's.

Let's kill their parents and let's go from there.

But then they hire Danny Elfman.

Let's get Danny.

Then the titles feel like Batman.

Yeah.

I was like, wait, am I watching Spider Man?

This is Batman titles.

And the music does have that Danny Elfman thing where you like.

Yeah.

And then they do the whole instead of is it Prince in Batman Kind of singing and.

No, he's not, he's not Actually performing or is it.

It's just playing the music.

And in this one, it's Macy Gray.

Macy Gray.

And then whatever it's called.

In Batman they've got these huge inflatable balloon things that the Joker kind of takes.

And in this one, the inflectable balloons.

Are still there and he's bouncing off them.

And like you said, like the Green Goblins kind of being made at the same time as Spider man and that's like the two sides of the same coin.

I think even the Green Goblin says you and I are basically the same.

And they are.

So, yeah, it's.

It's very similar to Batman playing it very safe.

But that's okay.

You know, it's probably why it was huge.

I'm not sure the Green.

I'm not sure it's good versus evil.

I'm not sure the Green Goblin is that bad of a guy.

Nobody is depicted as that.

It's sold as that.

Yeah, but he's.

He's an arms dealer.

From what I can tell, like making America great again.

I think he's, he's, he's portrayed as evil in the business sense, as a businessman.

No one likes him, but it feels.

Like he's a whole board.

The Gits who are just like, yeah, you.

We used.

This is literally your company.

It's called Osborne Oscorp.

And we've decided we don't like you.

So we voted and you're not in anymore.

Back to formula, Darren.

If you don't, if this doesn't work, we're closing you down.

And so he's like, oh, I'll.

I'll freaking take the potion myself then.

So he was doing it for the good of science and then it made him a little bit egotistical, which I totally get.

And that's done loads of times.

That's cool.

So that's all.

His character's got a very Jekyll and Hyde vibe going on.

And I'm a Gemini, so I kind of totally relate to this two person.

Yeah, but him, it's just, it's just once the mask goes on, that's.

It's someone else.

He's acting also.

I don't know.

Particularly for the year.

I'm not sure he knows he was in a comic book movie because especially.

That scene where he's in the mirror and he's doing both voices.

You're like, wow, he's doing this.

This is pre Gollum.

Yeah, very much so.

Yeah.

That guy must have.

Guy raped Gollum.

Must have looked at this and be like, I know exactly how to do this character.

How am I going to.

Yeah, there it is.

Exactly.

So that's cool.

Then I had this feeling of like, is there fate in this world?

Because that spider did not feel like an accident.

That felt like it was intent.

Like that spider didn't just accidentally fall on him.

Some spiders do go for people.

Yeah, but then it's like, I'm going to land on you and bite you.

Why?

You're not under threat.

Like, you're just biting random people now.

Like, what?

And then there's other elements.

Like the cage just happens to be lowered when it's Spider Man.

When the wrestling say, yeah, that was random.

No, but that now played into his style.

You know, it feels like the universe is just creating these synchronicities to make this happen.

But then I didn't think about kind of balance in the universe.

Like, if you have a hero that appears, a villain must also appear to counter them.

And they say that about Batman, don't they?

We didn't have Batman, we wouldn't have half of these freaks is kind of the argument.

And we talk about that in Star wars as well.

Like, if there's a Jedi, there must be a Sith.

Where there was one, there was another with the emperor and stuff.

So that was kind of curiosity with me then.

I'm not sure if you noticed that MJ is a total gold digger who I'm deeply about.

Well, that sounds like what Norman Osborne says about her.

And he would be right.

Your trust fund.

What's he what?

She's just like your mother.

She'll be after a trust fund or something.

Yeah, but I think his dad even says that about her mom.

That's what I meant.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's just like, you'll just be a slut like your mother or something.

Jesus.

Thanks for standing up for me, Harry.

Ben, get in there.

Am I talking to.

But, yeah.

She starts off where she's with Flash.

No idea why they're together.

There's no affection or anything or any cuteness.

He's just a dick.

And popular.

So she's like, I'm poor and living on the outskirts, so.

But I'm hot, so I'm going to get this guy, breaks up with him.

I'm not really sure why.

I may have blacked out, but that.

We don't know that.

Then she gets together with the trust fund guy who's got zero personality whatsoever.

And that is basically a human void of emotion.

And then out of nowhere, it's like, actually, I love this Guy.

She's like, I love you, Peter.

When did that happen?

You only sight.

You've lived next to him for a decade and you only spoke to him three days ago.

And that's why we love the movies, because the things that don't happen in real life happen in the movies.

Because she'd still be with Chad.

Chadon, wouldn't she?

But that would be.

You'd be the same, wouldn't you, Paul?

You didn't live next door to a girl that you liked and wouldn't talk to her for three years.

Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I do.

Of course.

At least 10 years.

Watch all the different boyfriends come and go and go.

I could have had a go there.

No.

Yeah.

I always used to remember that.

This is my boyfriend, Steve.

I'm making these names up, by the way.

And you'd be like, oh, yeah, he's horrendous.

And then you'd meet them the next week and she'd be like, I broke up with Steve.

And you're like, have you.

There's a window.

That's your brain thinking.

But your window is always way too long.

You think, oh, I'm gonna give him.

I'm gonna give him two months to get over that.

Meanwhile, other guys, normally, by the time.

They were telling you that they broke up with Steve, and I'm having that moment of, is it now?

They go, but this is Peter.

Yeah.

And he wonders.

And he's even worse.

He's even bigger.

Chad.

And it's like, oh, that's nice.

He's great.

I can.

I can empathize with Peter Parker.

Carry on.

Yeah.

Then obviously it's great when J.K. simmons walks up.

It annoys me.

He doesn't turn up until like the 56 minute mark or something.

It is a while.

Yeah.

He's used a bit more in the other ones, I think, isn't he?

Yeah.

But then when Ben says that line, with great power comes great responsibility, I just kind of felt like it landed different in this telling of Spider Man.

And I'm not sure why, but it felt like that wasn't just a sentence aimed at Spider Man.

It felt like that was aimed at kind of all men.

On the whole, we're stronger, you know, we're more comfortable with violence in many ways.

We're more willing to put ourselves at risk.

And so I feel like that was a message for even just for men to hold themselves to a higher standard.

Like, I saw Jamelia.

Jamel.

Is that her name talking?

And she was talking about how Sad it is that there's some guys who will make, like, deep fakes.

And she's like, you know, can you imagine when they were seven and they were, like, picturing what they wanted to be when they grew up, and they were drawing, like, astronauts and basketball players, and now they're in their freaking mom's basement taking one face off one girl and putting it on the body of another girl so they can masturbate to it.

Like, how ridiculously shameful and pathetic.

How did that astronaut thing go for it?

No, but look, I've tried to shame these girls by making these videos so I feel better about myself.

You.

I never thought of any of this while watching Spider man, but hey, you.

Know, that takes us in some strange places.

And that's true of technology as well.

Isn't like, AI is great power, should have great responsibility, and we shouldn't be using it to create pathetic kind of pornography, basically.

So, yeah, that kind of landed with me.

And then I don't know if you missed the ridiculous way that Spider man got named.

That gave me.

He didn't have a name for his entrance.

So the announcer basically said, you're a Spider Man.

You should be spider based.

No, no.

What did he say?

I am.

What did he say he was?

He's got my name wrong.

And the answer just went, you're gonna be Spider Man.

I used to follow wrestling, but it makes more sense.

Like, it needs to be obvious what it is.

The character is like spider Man.

Like, it makes sense.

It doesn't need explaining.

So I think they embellished that a little bit.

I think in the comic book panel, it just the introduce him as the Amazing Spider Man.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is the Amazing Spider Man.

And it's kind of just introduced that way.

Any superlatives work?

Yeah, then.

So we've established it.

MJ is a bit of a gold digger.

Also, Spider Man's a bit of a dick like twice T shirt.

Like one is.

Obviously.

I. I can allow the whole.

I don't see how that's my problem.

Stopping the burglar.

Like, I get that.

That's him learning the lesson, isn't?

Yeah, that's fine then.

Also, why was Ben out that late?

Not that I'm fixing Raymond here, but he dropped him off.

What did you think he was dropping him off at the library or something?

Yeah, he was studying at the library.

Yeah.

So then he would have driven home to Aunt May, but didn't Just scoured the New York streets.

Ended up getting attacked on the street.

Yeah.

Why don't you just drive home?

Did he just watch Taxi Drive or something?

Was just like.

No, he was waiting for Peter to come out the library and he got carjacked.

Is that what he was doing?

Just gonna sit there?

Well, that's what people do when they pick someone up.

No, I think he'd gone home and it's just him coming back.

Oh yeah, yeah, he went home.

He didn't just sit there the whole time outside the library, you see him drive off.

That's when Peter runs off to do the wrestling.

I'd allow it.

But then he doesn't go home to Aunt May until like early hours in the morning.

It's like her husband's just died.

Go home and he doesn't.

I honestly, if you guys could see Paul's face.

I'm so confused.

And Peter goes running off and then goes.

Stands.

Starts thinking he's Batman and just sits on the building looking around, being like, I'm really sad.

Yeah.

And then I'm with you now about 3:30 in the morning, thinks maybe I should check on Aunt May.

Oh, you think so?

She would be worried sick about you now.

Both of you are not there.

Yeah.

It's like, but, but don't forget, time passes in, in the films because he's in high school one minute and then he's working and he's out and he's got his flat and he's doing all that.

Yeah.

So there is that.

Do you think he wasn't living at home then?

No, he was.

He moved in with Harry, doesn't he?

Okay.

He still should have gone home.

Okay.

I'm just wondering if.

I wonder if the bit you're on about, he has moved on and he's not living at home, but you're thinking he should be living at home and looking after Aunt May.

Yeah.

Okay.

I also weirdly had sympathy for the criminals.

That was like, when that guy went in and robbed the place, I was like, dude, I'm one step away from you.

Just.

It's unlikely to get bitten by radioactive spider, but I am quite likely at this point to rob a place in the next five years.

Mainly because I keep seeing people in newspapers get caught by the stupidest things.

And it would be like, there'd be a guy like, oh, a man was arrested because he was driving with his brake lights out and then he's got £500,000 worth of coke in his van.

When you watch those police documentaries that follow them, like people who have got no insurance or they've got loads of Drugs in the car.

They always drive like idiots.

Or they've got, like, bald tires.

No.

No lights.

No.

And it's like rent.

Rent a car.

Like Toad of Toad hall would drive.

Drive.

Yeah.

Speed limit indicate everything.

Yeah.

Oh, my word.

How did we get to that anyway?

Sympathy for the criminals.

Is this you putting your confession on a podcast early?

No, it's just you have a wrestling match, I think, with the cost of living and the state of the world.

I think it's.

I see people commit kind of theft in the newspapers now, and I'm just like.

None of the comments are attacking them.

If you carjack Uncle Ben, I am coming after you.

Just saying.

Which leads me to say I do enjoy Cliff Robertson's performance as Uncle Ben.

And yeah, he's Rosemary Harris's main.

The Both not in it that much, but the impact they have within it is really felt kind of this warm center of it all.

So when he does die, it's heartfelt and you think, what a dick.

Two more things.

Did you see Elizabeth Banks or was that my.

Yes, she was.

Yes.

She auditioned for Mary Jane Watson, but she didn't get it, but ended up as.

Is it Betty Ross?

Oh, I see.

Oh, no.

Betty Ross is terrible.

Yeah.

She has a different character name.

And then the other thing I thought was, this is just a pet peeve of mine because I like whiskey is Norman Osborne drinks Maker's Mark.

And I've seen Lex Luthor drink that in, like, Smallville or something like that.

Maker's Mark is not a nice.

It's not a fancy whiskey.

Like, it's in a fancy bottle because it's like the square one with the red wax over the top.

But it's not a good whiskey.

Like, it's like.

I think it's like 25 quid or something.

You know, it's not.

And we were in New York.

Surely they should be drinking Scotch or, like, an Irish whiskey.

They should be getting like a LaFromg or a Talisker or something like smoky and peaty and.

And even.

Even above that, like, they're rich.

Why aren't they drinking whiskey?

I don't even know the name of.

Wait, I love.

That's the email you would write to Norman Osborne.

Yeah.

Dear makers of Spider man, drink better alcohol.

Who was your whiskey advisor on this?

Did they give you just lots of free makers, Mark?

Because if you did, I'm here for that.

I would have made exactly the same decision.

I love this because normally I'm guessing on these podcasts, they'd be like, why didn't they take off his mask and see who he was?

But not us.

No, no.

We're going to the whiskey and saying, what's that?

It's not the right whiskey.

At least you.

When I'm teaching film and I'm like, you've got to do the research.

You just have like, oh, in your script it says, oh, they drink whiskey.

I'm like, what kind of whiskey?

And you know, I work with a Paddy, an Irishman, so he'll be like, yeah, what kind of whiskey?

What does it mean?

It's too generic.

Yeah.

Like if you've got an Irish guy particularly like you're going to give him a scotch whiskey, that's not going to happen.

Yeah.

So, yeah, these are my thoughts.

Okay.

I think that's basically everything that I. Yeah, that's good.

That's good.

Oh, just one other thing.

Is Norman Osborne getting annoyed that he said, oh, I think MJ loves Peter.

Now out of nowhere, because what he saw with his very own eyes was Peter in the hospital room where his aunt was in hospital after his uncle died.

And mj, his friend, allegedly even there's no evidence of that.

Who this person who he's lived next to for 10 years.

He's an angel.

Reached over and put her hand on his hand.

That's it.

That's it.

Yeah.

And then pulled it away when he walked in because I guess she knew he was a jealous.

Yeah, but we've said this before.

For rom coms to go forward, you have to have that misunderstanding.

This isn't a rom com.

Although he says at the beginning this is all about a girl.

It wasn't there, was it?

Parts of it were not really.

Then he says, how's he open it?

He says, who am I?

You sure you want to know?

No, I mean, only died watching the movie called Spider man actually let the camera follow someone else that that person driving the taxi.

I want to know who they are.

And he's like, my story is not for their faint of heart.

Kind of.

It's your uncle died.

It's not like that happens.

He's harsh.

Also harsh.

Okay, thank you, gentlemen.

This takes us on to Paul's fact of the day, which I'm quite interested on because this is honestly one of the biggest movies ever and it's been 20 odd years, so there'll probably be a lot.

Yep, there is.

Facts of the day.

Let's whiz through some of these.

One which I couldn't find, but I might find as I'm going through them.

Again, now, the bit with the tray in the canteen where he catches all the things.

Yeah.

That wasn't an effect.

He actually did that practically.

I read.

I did read.

There's a lot of practical physical effects in this.

This was before they relied heavily on cgi, wasn't it?

I was looking for it because I can't remember how many takes it took him, but it was like probably 100 odd takes to get this.

Him to catch the thing.

Big detail.

Big detail on small parts of films that just pass you by.

But it's Sam Raimi, isn't it?

So he's used to, especially the Evil Dead films.

Everything's very practical and everything's very old school.

David.

One of people might have missed is a lot of the effects and the camera zooms.

And this felt like Evil Dead to me.

It was also.

All of a sudden you're like, camera round.

And it did have shades of that.

I would have done it first time.

Completed it, mate.

Completed it, mate.

Yeah.

This is the first film to gross 100 million in its opening weekend alone.

Domestic box office at the time, no movie had done so even when, adjusted for inflation.

100 Million.

He wanted just for inflation.

That's impressive.

Willem Dafoe performed 90% of his own stunts and accidentally punched Tobey Maguire one of the fight scenes.

Accidentally, yeah.

Method.

Method.

This is the first Marvel movie to showcase the flipping pages Marvel logo that we're now very used to, even though this isn't part of the.

It's the only one I know.

Marvel universe.

So this is where it gets complicated.

Mark.

Okay, stick with me.

I'll try and give you the thing.

Right.

But Spider man was still partially owned by Sony at that point.

So Spider man only joins the late universe when Tom Holland joins it sort of later on in that.

So the whole.

At that point, the whole catalog became inside of Marvel.

Yeah.

So there was sort of different factions of it.

So the X Men were over here with 20th Century Fox, but Marvel.

Spider man was over here with Sony, with Marvel.

And there's still a bit of that going on now.

So when this new one comes out, Marvel.

But it was owned by Sony.

Yeah.

Right.

So when the new Spider man comes out, I think it's still pretty much owned by Sony, but Marvel have a stake in it, which is obviously owned by Disney.

Moving on.

Facts of the day.

One of the chief difficulties that Tobey Maguire experienced in the now famous upside down kiss scene was his sinuses Kept filling up with water as it was performed in driving rain.

So maybe not quite as sexy in a real life.

No.

They got the shot, though.

Yeah, they did quite an iconic shot that.

And this goes to some of the things about the camera work that you're saying.

So a camera system called the spydercam, spelled S P Y D E R cam, was developed to express more of Spider Man's world and point of view.

It was able to drop 50 stories.

That's like over 60ft.

It's pre drones, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

And with shot lengths of just over 2,400ft or 3,200ft, that's shooting in New York or Los Angeles.

And it could shoot at six frames a second to convey a sense of speed.

And Spider cam was only used in this film for the final sequence, but was brought more into use in the sequels.

So they've obviously designed it for this technique and expanded it.

Expanded it went through.

But like you say before, drones and all this other stuff.

And amazingly, I think the tried to go backwards now because the new Spider man they were filming in, I want to say Glasgow.

I think I did remember that.

Yeah, yeah.

And a lot of it was practical and you could see them actually.

You know, just people filming on the phones.

Tom Holland.

You can't keep anything secret these days,.

Like swinging off tanks and stuff in the middle of Glasgow.

Tommy Maguire said that he never read a Spider man comic, but took the role because he liked the script.

Fair enough.

It's the same as any of the film.

Film in it.

Yeah.

One of the reasons why Sam Raimi was a popular choice with Sony for the gig was because, like we said before, he's a Navig comic book collector and in his private life and he has a collection of over 25,000 comics.

Wow.

Yeah.

Initially, they were going to use Dr. Octopus for the first film in early drafts, but they decided to change it to obviously Green Goblin and then brought in Dr. Octopus in the sequel by sign on for two sequels to Toby Maguire secured himself a paycheck of how do we think how much Darren's got a guess in.

Well, let him go first for the sequels.

For the.

For two sequels.

Oh, signing on for two sequels after this.

Yeah, I would have got bank for those ones.

I mean, they've been fairly well paid for the first one.

And then after this, you'd be like, he'd have had an estimate written down.

They go, oh, wait a minute, it's done really well.

I want double.

I know.

I don't Know if you would got that much back then?

Like, 8 million, 26 million.

Jesus.

Which back then was pretty good.

I Bet he got 8 million for the first one.

No, people don't get paid as much as you think.

Like, do you know how much Miles Teller got paid for whiplash?

$8,000.

But he probably just wanted it for the role because it was.

I bet he got residuals, though.

Yeah, I bet he got residuals.

He might not have done.

He wasn't a big name.

J.K. simmons may have then.

When Sam Raimi first offered to cast Tobey Maguire as Spider man, the studio was very reluctant initially.

And then they saw his screen test and saw that he bulked up for the role.

Yeah, you've got to have quite an athletic physical look, haven't you?

Yeah.

Can't be too scrawny.

Doesn't fit the superhero image.

He went on a, you know, typical training diet and everything else.

He was training, like, six times a week.

So.

Spider Man's webbing in the film is made out of foam materials and fishing line.

It was also enhanced for CGI.

Bones saw McGraw.

This is one for you as a wrestling man, the wrestler.

Wait a minute, Wait a minute.

Yeah.

Macho Man.

Randy Savage.

He is.

Yes.

And apparently early in his career, he wrestled under the name the Spider.

So maybe it's one of those karma things.

He had Running man vibes.

And then he also reminded me of.

There's a guy in Predator 2 at the beginning, and he.

He takes, like.

I think he takes.

I think there's a lot of coke around him.

And he takes on, like, a big breath of coke.

It's all over his face.

And he's like, the Scorpio is ready.

And then he fights the Predator.

You guys seen that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No need to put it.

You need to get on here.

We've done the first one.

Yeah.

Same with Alien.

Yeah.

We need to start getting in the sequel.

We haven't done any sequels yet.

Single sequels.

Fun.

We'll bring them.

We'll bring them.

But, yeah, I do remember the beat.

Meaning that.

So Stan Lee, creator of Spider man, he's there about one hour, seven minutes in, he appears at the scene where the Green Goblin attacking the balcony at the World Uni Festival.

But what you will learn, Mark, which Darren will already know, is Stan Lee has many a cameo in Marvel films across most of them and why not Away and why not?

And he turns up in all kinds of.

Takes you out the movie.

There is that you stop being in the movie.

Like, oh, there's Stanley.

Oh, wait a minute.

He created this and now haven't they replaced him with Kevin Smith?

Or is that a real thing?

Oh, I don't know.

Is that a thing?

Found this one interesting, especially when we're talking about the Willem Dafoe mirror scene.

So he wears dental prosthetics for most of the movie as Norman Osborn, but when he does his reflection as the Goblin, he retains his less than perfect teeth, which I've never even thought of until I read that.

Nice.

But when.

When you think about it, like.

Yeah, he does have sort of the gap between his teeth when he's doing the.

Because that's kind of his distinct look, isn't it?

Okay, couple more.

Tobey Maguire had to have his Spider man suit slightly remodeled as the original design did not make any allowances for when he needed to go to the bathroom.

They added a vent to enable him to relieve himself.

You know, sometimes in the trailers, the adapt things to when they're in the film.

It's slightly different because when used in the trailer, the shot of Peter doing the backflip onto a car hood, it was digitally altered to him to put him in his final Spider man outfit instead of his wrestling outfit because obviously it'll look better for the cooler.

Yeah.

For the trailer instead.

And if I remember rightly, I haven't got this in front of me, but if I remember rightly, there was a trailer that had the two towers in it or a poster with the two towers in it.

Yeah, there was.

It up a bit because it's not been filmed around that time.

Yeah, I had a web between it, I think.

Yeah, that's right.

So apparently there's some of them posters out there and they're worth quite a lot now because they're so rare, because they obviously brought them back because it was around that time.

There you go.

So it brought the record for the biggest opening day with 39.4 million.

And the record was broken by its sequel, Spider Man 2.

Okay.

And it would go on to be held by Spider Man 3 with 59.8 million, despite making the least of the three interesting.

There you go.

Thank you very much, Paul.

Okay, that takes us on to hate it or rate it.

So what do we think?

I'm gonna go to you first, Paul, because it is your.

It was your choice.

Yeah, I like it.

It's.

It brings back the retro vibes for me.

I remember being at first year Uni when I saw it.

So it was kind of an experience thing.

So when I see it kind of takes me back to that place in terms of the film.

There's better superhero films.

I'm trying not to talk about the.

The sequels of the Spider Mans that I like more because you'll tell me off.

But there's better ones.

But this one has setting it up and bringing it on.

And I kept having to remind myself, yeah, when we first saw them swinging through the thing, him, Mary Jane and all, we hadn't seen the other spider mans doing it.

And it was all very impressive at the time, even when he was climbing up the wall and the effects and stuff.

Yeah, I think it's got its problems here and there.

There's some pretty cringy stuff and cheesy bits in it as well.

Like, go, web, go.

I could do without that.

Fly, web, fly.

Yeah, but there's also some legendary stuff like, I got this for your ass.

Yeah, exactly.

And I feel like, oh, overall, I can accept them bits because it's making a comic book movie.

And I think back in them days, there wasn't this drive to make everything real.

Like, oh, we have to make it as real as possible.

It was.

We're making a comic book movie and you can see Willem Dafoe's having a great time as the baddie.

You can see Toby Maguire's very much the Peter Parker.

I think, you know, maybe some of the actors do better with the quips or.

I quite like the quips that the Animated Series used to have.

Have the way the Spider man quips will come across.

But I think he still does a good job.

Yeah, there's certain bits that stood out that I'm still like, yeah, that's cool.

I like that.

That works well.

Like I said before, I like the heart of it being the uncle and the whole Uncle Ben thing.

The awesome Batman.

Yeah, yeah.

I like the origin stuff on these.

And also the fact that we.

We get the coming of age and growing up.

I mean, it's a shame that they didn't maybe make the whole film about high school.

But I suppose you get that in the later films when you're doing the Tom Holland stuff because it jumps very quickly to the Daily Bugle.

But at that point, you probably didn't know you were gonna get sequels or not.

They didn't know it was gonna have the biggest opening of all time.

So at least we get to see J.K. simmons as Jameson, which is still fantastic.

What am I gonna give it as a Film.

I hate doing this because it's about what I think, isn't it?

Not particularly what the film is.

Yes.

So as a film, I'd probably put it about seven, but with the nostalgia sprinkled in for me, it probably still sits at an eight, just because it brings back such good memories.

And it was kind of the one that made you go, holy crap, they can make Spider man in a movie now.

Because previous to this, like, we were discussed right at the start of this episode, it was either animation, which I loved, or Nicholas Hammond, which I'm going to send you a clip of later, where he would swing on the same building every week and he'd use the same bits of footage.

It was a bit like Power Rangers almost, wasn't it?

Where, like, one minute it'd be him doing his and you'd be telling the story of what Peter Parker's up to.

And then it clicked to Spider Man.

It's like, isn't that the sequence they used last week?

I can still remember the thing.

We had a Wonder Woman series as well.

That was good.

Oh, that was Linda Carr, wasn't it?

Yes, there was probably better series, but I just love Spider man as a kid.

And yes, I once jumped off a wall in Majorca thinking it was shallower than shallows, thinking I was Spider man, and twisted my ankle for the rest of the holiday.

Good times.

Lovely.

Have you got an older brother?

Yeah.

Did he call you Spider man for the rest of your life?

Or did he just laugh?

Was he on the.

Or did he push you?

Yeah, probably most likely.

Isn't it, like, go over there, Spider Man.

Just so an eight from you, Paul.

Yeah, let's give it purely for nostalgic.

Like I say, it's probably a solid seven.

Yeah, I think two's better.

But, yeah, let's give it an eight just for pure nostalgia.

Okay, I'll go next.

We'll save down to last.

I thought this was movie was okay.

I thought I enjoyed it.

It was a bit more simple than.

Like I said, it was simple, but it was a bit too simple.

Like I'm.

I'm probably more difficult to please in this aspect.

I don't like them when they're too over the top and there's multiple things going on and people that you don't know and like, different things that you need to have.

Like, listen, watch other movies.

Not that you're linking the new Superman.

No, no, not at all.

No, no, no.

But like, there's like, why does his love interest have to live right next Door.

Like, don't make it too coincident.

I mean, come on, you can't have.

A nice cliche like that.

Oh, but there was things where he was like, it was like a nod to old like superhero movies, like the old Batman, like, hey, Green Goblin, don't do that.

There was one point where he said something like really cheesy like that movie.

But it was just a bit, it was a bit basic.

But I did enjoy the watching the story of how he became Spider man.

And I wasn't sure how accurate that was to the comic book.

But.

Yeah, so I didn't get bored.

I was, I was interested.

Some of the set pieces and the shots were really cool.

Even though it is 20 odd years old, considering that new technology.

And I like the way that they did some of it was real stuff versus not, not overly dependent on cgi, which they are now.

So for me, I'm gonna give it a 6.3.

Over to you, Darren.

Yeah, it's cringe.

It's.

I mean it's interesting because it feels like it's a teenager kind of realizing what's important.

And like it really bothers me that his uncle's like, hey, don't, don't forget to come and paint the room with me.

And then he does.

I'm like, dude, like I'm nearly 50 and I, I think I'm gonna be lucky If I get 20 more Christmases.

These guys have only got maybe five and like.

And you're not gonna go home.

And that bit does piss me off more than any other movie.

Like I've said before, that's that struggle between youth and experience.

Yeah.

I kind of like meet somewhere in the middle.

There's just the graph of.

And it's about the amount of time.

If you take all the time you spend with your parents or your grown ups.

Oh yeah, whatever.

Your guardians, you've spent 90 of the time.

I think I heard this the other day.

I think.

And it's when you're 18, isn't it?

It kind of drops off a cliff.

And the rest of the rest 20 of your life you're not with them at all.

Yeah.

And it's like.

And you just barely see them.

Like they're not even.

Yeah, it's.

It's crazy the way that's how we look live.

But then the rest of it is cringe.

Did you see, did you think that Professor X was in this?

No.

There's a freaking bald guy in a wheelchair.

Don't put a bald guy in a wheelchair in a marvel Film and then don't let him be Professor X. I.

Just realized who you meant.

He's in the board meeting or something, isn't he?

Bald guy in a wheelchair.

Yeah, but it's not in a suit, is it?

Patrick Stewart?

No, have to be Patrick Stewart.

It does.

He's been killed off in the Next man film.

Spoiler alert.

How many times Those.

And there's nice elements of this.

Like, you know, I do think this.

We all need to think.

With great power comes great responsibility.

I wish all the billionaires kind of understood that.

There's a bit where I think MJ says you look taller.

You're taller than you look.

And he said, yeah, I hunch.

And she's like, well, don't.

And I used to hunch because I was so self conscious about being 6 4.

And now because I'm old, I've shrunk a bit and now I'm 6 3.

But you know, it took years of training, martial arts to.

In my 30s to stop hunching.

And we all diminish ourselves.

We all make ourselves look small in some way.

So there's nice lessons like that, which I appreciate.

Other than that, I think J.K. simmons is just the best.

That scene felt like cinema.

Like there's so much going on and he's like, your wife's on the phone.

Just like picks it up, hangs up.

Yeah, that's getting someone else.

You get out page seven.

I don't care.

Six.

It's really good.

That's very His Girl Friday, wasn't it?

Yeah.

So quite just totally got it and then just was like, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna sell some papers.

We're gonna make him a villain.

I was.

Yeah, you, you do you.

But again, he is great power comes great responsibility.

You've got a newspaper.

You should be telling the truth, not just trying to make money.

And he doesn't give him up, does he?

Like, no.

Tell me who.

Spider Man.

He just sends him in.

You're lying.

Yeah, yeah.

And there's bits I thought were funny.

Like at one point, I think the Green Goblin attacks Spider man at the, the festival thing, the street party.

And the policeman says, Code three, code three, code three.

Yeah, there's a green goblet and three.

Not like code 119, it's like code three.

It's like superheroes attacking again.

What?

It's New York, Darren.

Yeah, that's clearly the thing, is it.

They've only got five codes.

Did you not know?

Yeah, yeah.

And.

But then I just, I felt like, it was clunky.

I felt like Kirsten Duncan acting was almost like melodrama.

It was like, oh, then so much pausing and emotion and so many deep feelings.

Made me think of, like, Dawson's Creek or something.

Yeah.

Mixed with Twilight.

Yeah, that was cringe.

And he's got no.

Tobey Maguire's character's.

Got no charm.

Like, there's nothing there.

No.

He's a nervous geeky nerd who doesn't.

Know who he is and doesn't answer sometimes, and they just find it endearing.

No, it's creepy.

He's a creepy guy.

Just don't be hanging out with him.

So I found it weird.

Also found it really dark.

I was gonna say this and things that I missed, but it's basically an attempted rape scene.

Like, four guys follow her down.

They're not gonna rob her because she's got no money.

Like, she clearly has no money.

And there's four of them.

Then they're making, like, kitten noises, aren't they?

Like, here.

That kind of thing.

And it's like, that's pretty freaking dark.

So.

But then Spider man or Toby McGuire makes a joke about it.

So don't walk down any dark alleys.

Remember that time my Spider man saved you from the gang rape that you nearly had?

It's like, fucking dark.

But I like a bit of darkness.

That's okay.

Other than that.

I also like this line coming from the Green Goblin.

He says, we are who we choose to be.

And I found that empowering as well.

Like, you get agency over the type of person you want to be.

And just in case you're struggling with life, you can change who you are at any given point.

And I was reflecting on this recently about how we almost.

Like, you can talk about reinventing yourself, but reinventing yourself is also killing who you were.

And when we started this podcast, the old out us died and we became someone new.

Does that make sense?

We died.

We became podcasting superheroes.

We did.

Yeah.

And that happens with every life event.

Hey, I've died twice.

Buffy the Musical.

Look it up.

Well, Buffy.

I was going to mention Buffy because I think Buffy does the school stuff better than this.

And that whole school bullying vibe and knocking over and I tripped him up, and I'm not letting him take, like, a good photo with this camera.

I'm great.

Dickheads.

That's school, Darren.

That's school.

That is.

Did you go to school?

Did you not have that?

Now?

I might have.

I had Sophisticated Brilliant when I was in school.

That was exactly why I Cut the thing.

Yep.

Petulant.

Yeah.

I.

Door slammed in my face and just.

Yeah.

Beaten.

But, you know, that's all right.

So we're gonna give it.

Because of J.K. simmons and because of Willem Dafoe.

4.2.

It's funny when Darren thinks of movies.

Okay.

It's below average.

Yeah.

When I think of movies.

Okay.

It's like in the middle.

Yeah.

4.3.

Okay.