EPISODE OVERVIEW

Duration: Approximately 45 minutes

Best For: Business owners who feel trapped by daily operations and want to leverage AI without adding more complexity

Key Outcome: Understand the difference between using AI and building with AI, and discover practical steps to start creating systems that work without you

THE BOTTOM LINE

If you have been telling yourself you will learn AI when things calm down, this episode is your wake-up call. Marnie Wills shares her journey from skeptical educator to AI strategist, revealing why 95% of business owners using ChatGPT are barely scratching the surface. She exposes the real gap that is widening between those who merely use AI and those who build with it. More importantly, she provides a clear pathway to get started today, even if you have zero technical background. The businesses that thrive in the next 12 months will be the ones who stop treating AI like a glorified spell-checker and start treating it like the smartest collaborator they have ever had.

WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS TO YOU

You will learn how AI can amplify your thinking rather than replace it, giving you hours back each week to focus on health, family, or strategic growth

Discover why your competitors who build with AI will leap ahead while those who only use it for email rewrites get left behind

Understand how to stop being the bottleneck by creating AI-powered systems that capture your business knowledge and work without you

Recognize what you are sacrificing by waiting, as the gap between AI adopters and resisters grows wider every single month

KEY INSIGHTS YOU CAN IMPLEMENT TODAY

Start using AI as your thinking partner by brain dumping everything into it and letting it organize your priorities, reducing mental load immediately

Move beyond basic ChatGPT use by creating customized projects or spaces that act as a second brain for your business, trained on your specific knowledge

Audit your business knowledge right now because if your processes only exist in people's heads, you have a massive risk and AI cannot help automate what is not documented

Give AI your outcome and let it figure out the tactics, shifting from step-by-step instructions to mission-based collaboration with agentic workflows

Protect your business intellectual property by moving your team to paid AI accounts where data is encrypted and you maintain ownership of valuable business conversations

GOLDEN QUOTES WORTH REMEMBERING

"Those that use AI are good, you'll stay ahead of the curve. But those that build with AI will really make the impact." - Marnie Wills

"If we don't look after ourselves, we cannot show up for others. People don't live it. They don't live it." - Roy Castleman

"AI is here to amplify our intelligence, not replace it." - Marnie Wills

"The leverage has changed. With AI, the leverage is the ability to create products, services, to solve a problem at the speed of light without needing people, labor, money, code, or media." - Marnie Wills

"Instead of thinking inside our brains, we can start thinking outside our brains. We just need to know what the problem is." - Roy Castleman

QUICK NAVIGATION FOR BUSY LEADERS

00:00 - Introduction: Meet Marnie Wills, from PE teacher to AI strategist

03:45 - Career Journey: How leaving teaching led to entrepreneurship and discovering AI

08:30 - The Pivotal Moment: Discovering Jasper AI in 2021 and getting an early adopter mindset

12:15 - High Performance Habits: The four pillars that prevent burnout for driven entrepreneurs

18:40 - Gap vs Gains Mindset: Why focusing on how far you have come beats obsessing over the gap

23:20 - The Energy Equation: How yesterday's worries and tomorrow's fears steal today's power

27:45 - AI Adoption Reality: Why 95% of ChatGPT users are just rewriting emails

32:10 - Use vs Build: The critical difference between using AI and building with AI

37:30 - Security Concerns Addressed: The truth about AI data safety and intellectual property

42:00 - Getting Started Today: Practical first steps for AI-hesitant business owners

GUEST SPOTLIGHT

Name: Marnie Wills

Bio: Marnie Wills is an entrepreneur, AI trainer, and strategist who discovered generative AI in 2021 while building her franchise business. A former PE teacher who represented England in netball and touch rugby, she now consults on AI transformations for businesses, helping leaders understand how to build with AI rather than just use it. She runs an early years physical education business partnership program and is passionate about making AI accessible to non-techies.

Connect with Marnie:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marnie-wills-entrepreneur/

YOUR NEXT ACTIONS

This Week: Download Perplexity AI and use it instead of Google for one week. Notice how the conversational responses change how you find and process information.

This Month: Audit where your critical business knowledge lives. Document one key process that currently only exists in someone's head and upload it to a custom ChatGPT project.

This Quarter: Move your team from personal free AI accounts to business-owned paid accounts to protect your intellectual property and build a valuable knowledge base you actually own.

EPISODE RESOURCES

AI Tools Mentioned:

- ChatGPT by OpenAI

- Claude by Anthropic (Sonnet 4.5)

- Gemini by Google

- Perplexity AI

- Jasper AI

- Microsoft Copilot

- Google Studio

- N8N, Make.com, and Zapier for automations

Books and Concepts Referenced:

- The Gap and The Gain mindset concept

- Mel Robbins and the Let Them concept

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READY TO ESCAPE THE TRAP?

Take the Freedom Score Quiz: https://scoreapp.atpbos.com/

Discover how trapped you are in your business and get your personalized roadmap to freedom in under 5 minutes.

Book a Free Strategy Session: https://www.atpbos.com/contact

Let's discuss how to build a business that works WITHOUT you.

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CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST, ROY CASTLEMAN

Roy is the founder of All The Power Limited and creator of Elevate360, a business coaching system for entrepreneurs ready to scale without burnout. As a certified Wim Hof Method Instructor and the UK's first certified BOS UP coach, Roy combines AI automation, wellness practices, and business operating systems to help trapped entrepreneurs reclaim their freedom.

Website: www.atpbos.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roycastleman/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@allthepowerltd

Foreign. Movers.

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I'm here with Marnie Wills and Marnie is an entrepreneur

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and she's embracing AI and yet just here to

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hear all about it. So, Marnie. Yeah, welcome. Ah, thanks,

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Roy. It's good to be here. So tell us, tell

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us a little bit about yourself. Tell us, how do

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you get to be doing the AI game? I know

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it's a bit crazy. If anyone had told me that

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I would call myself a vibe coder and be known

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as an AI trainer and strategist, I think I would

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have just laughed because I love all things sport and

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I grew up playing sport in Australia, wanted to be

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a PE teacher from the age of five, would bunk

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as many classes as possible just to get out on

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the field and be playing. To be fair, it was

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probably the only thing that got me through school and

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through uni was being so driven to become a PE

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teacher, which I did. I graduated in 2004 as a

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physical education and secondary science teacher. And then massive

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change happened. There were no jobs on the coast in

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Australia, where I grew up, because everybody wanted to be

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PE teacher. There wasn't many jobs. So you get sent

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rural and this, this name will make you laugh. I

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got sent to a place called Gunda Windy, which basically

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is six hours from anywhere. Anywhere. And I just didn't

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think I could hack it, if I'm honest. An opportunity

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came up, come up to move to the UK and

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play a bit of netball. Netball was my main sport

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at the time, so I took it and. And then

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it was really easy to get jobs over here in,

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in London. And it wasn't long before I was moving

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up the ranks within the education sector in London. But

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there was a lot of schools where I was like

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on Danger Pay, which I just then fell out of

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love with teaching pe especially because. Danger Pay? Yeah,

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yeah. I mean, there's some academies in London which are

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tough, right? Yeah. To keep teachers and keep a bit

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of consistency. You get paid a little bit extra and

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they call it Danger Pay. There was some really nice,

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not nice stuff. A couple of children have been stabbed

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or died or unfortunately not nice things done to some

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girls in the toilet. It was honestly not very nice.

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And I think I learned a lot about myself in

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that time of why do I do what I do?

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And I think I like to, as a person, see

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progression in people. And I realized that through all of

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my sport, I managed to represent England for netball and

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touch rugby for England as well. And I did that

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for quite a long period of time and I realized

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that I Love working with kind of high performance and

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I love the mindset related to being a high performer

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and I realized that I needed to change my environment.

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So I tried a few different types of school. So

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I went to a private school, I went to a

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primary school, I worked as a school in school, sports

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partnership. So I just tried a whole lot of different

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things and it was all going really well. Progressing through,

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finding different love. It was actually. It sounds from the

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outlook, talking about it sounds like great opportunities. But for

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me, because I was so set on being a PE

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teacher my whole life, actually making those changes initially, because

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I wasn't enjoying it was actually hard. But I was

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just trying to find a bit more purpose because I

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wasn't getting it initially. Anyway, Fast forward to 2013 and

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it was a big year for me. I'd gone to

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Dublin to play touch rugby. I was off to South

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Africa to play netball, but I was ahead of netball

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at a private school in Bromley. And the TED teacher

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basically said I couldn't go. She just said, you've already

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had loads of time off. And I said, yeah, but

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I'm your head of netball and I'm going to go

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and put an England dress on, right, to play netball.

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And she just said, we can't give you that time

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off. So I just resigned and then just thought, oh,

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yeah, yeah, just thought I was already in my late

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20s by that point, or mid to late 20s. It

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was important that I didn't have many years representing my

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country at sport. Admittedly, they were all amateur expenses paid.

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It wasn't. I wasn't paid because she said, if you

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were a professional, it'd be a different story. And I

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was like, if I was professional, I wouldn't be here.

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And I'm so pleased. That was 2013, so I'm so

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pleased. Twelve years later, women's sport, they do get paid,

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admittedly, nowhere near as much as they should. Or with

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the men, it's definitely, definitely a progression for women in

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sport, which I'm a massive advocate for. Yeah. I decided

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to put my resignation in. I thought, I can start

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a business. Like most entrepreneurs, we've got quite a lot

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of ideas. So I didn't start one business, I started

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two. So I had a health and fitness business, just

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started teaching, delivering functional fitness sessions on the common in

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London for amateur athletes that, that would get injured a

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lot because your general gym programs just wouldn't, wouldn't be

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sufficient enough for the load they're putting on their body

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and the movements they were doing. And then I saw

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a Massive gap in the market to teach early years

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physical education because I was getting girls, especially girls 11

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who didn't know the fundamentals. Jump, land, throw, catch. And

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then I would get boys that hated PE because they

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didn't play football. But physical education, the subject is not

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about football. So it's one sport in one area of

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physical education which has seven areas of learning. I soon

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found a bit of a gap in the market and

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launched my early years physical education business. All going well,

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traveling well, playing sport, happy days, had my first baby,

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all good. Covid hit when everything went online, which actually

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I loved, I loved. It just worked with my brain

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like almost looking at like sales funnel. Then I doubled

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down on marketing because marketing changed massively and yeah, I

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just absolutely loved it. And then I kept my health

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and fitness business online because the profit margins were so

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much better, not having to pay for studio space and

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that type thing and. And then I decided that I

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would franchise my early years physical education business. And I

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try and I hired a copywriter, but the copywriter, although

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she was awesome, didn't quite give me what I needed.

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So I discovered an AI tool called Jasper AI and

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that was actually back in 2021, like crazy. So it

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was OpenAI. So it was like what we know now

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as ChatGPT. It was the early version and it was

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just in a Wrapper. So Jasper AI, it was just

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a platform that used that OpenAI platform at the time.

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And yeah, like it was absolutely. I know this word

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gets overused, but I'm not exaggerating. It was game changing

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for me. I wasn't good at writing, I didn't really

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know what I want, what I wanted in my franchise

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Z and it just, yeah. So when ChatGPT did come

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out I was already in. Right. I already had a

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kind of almost that AI first mindset. How can AI

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help me, collaborate with me? How can I get it

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to get my genius out? How can I get it

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to get my message across? Like I already had that

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when ChatGPT come out. Early adopter. I used Chat GPT

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to redesign my franchise opportunity through my earliest physical

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education business to business partnerships. So instead of selling a

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franchise, I now sell a business partnership opportunity where we

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co own and start a region together. So that's been

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super successful. We're up to five business partners now and

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I absolutely love that journey and I love business startup

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and that kind of works really nice for me and

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giving people opportunities and painting the picture of what could

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be. And then I managed to exit my health and

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fitness business. Early 2024 because I created

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a lot of digital assets thanks to Chat GPT and

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so one of my trainers were able to buy a

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lot of my assets off me and rebrand them. So

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then just over a year ago, it was actually June

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2024, I decided to do some AI training into some

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local businesses. And when I say AI training back then,

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it doesn't seem like that long ago, but it was

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just like what is generative AI? Decades ago in AI

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time. I. I know, right? What is Generative AI? What

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is Chat GPT? Just crushing the myths about using it.

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You don't being techie too old, it's going to take

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everybody's jobs and to be fair, back then I probably

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would have said yeah it would, it might do like

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I probably wasn't as. Definitely wasn't as established in my

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thought leadership concepts around where I think Generative AI is

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having a transformation in business. But yeah, it was a

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journey in that first six months of delivering workshops and

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helping businesses and then yeah, at the beginning of the

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year 2025 I went into the consultancy world, consult on

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AI transformations for businesses and then where are we now?

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October get opportunities to talk to people like you, talk

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about all things business and life and yeah, really enjoying

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the journey. So there we are. Amazing, amazing. And you,

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yeah, having the sporting background, I presume you have a

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routine that is non negotiable on, on your physical and

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mental side. So let's talk a little bit about that.

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I love the approach that I've got at the moment

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that I've worked on quite hard, just getting my breath

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work and getting my meditation and getting my cold exposure

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and yeah getting some ptm and if I don't get

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that four or five days a week or four or

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five times a week, then I just don't perform as

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well. How do you approach that and how do you

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weave that into what you do? Yeah, I really love

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that and I'm really pleased that we are having this

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conversation now and not two weeks. Because two weeks ago

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I was definitely heading towards some type of burnout and

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I realized just last week I was on a business

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retreat in, at the Belfry in Birmingham and the first

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workshop we did was performance and I think that what

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has got me where I am now has been my

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high performance habits which I'll list off my routines in

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a second. But what's going to get me to my

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next level? I'm going to need to think about some

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additions to that. What are the tweaks that are going

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to need to my current habits. What's serving me now,

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what's not, what have I outgrown, what's not challenging me.

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I just felt very comfortable and I was like, this

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is, this is not good for my next level. And

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then because I wasn't feeling like I was pushing to

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that next level, I. I then was in a mindset

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of frustration, big word, like massive frustration. Feeling overworked,

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like I was doing lots of extra things to help

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people. But then I wasn't really helping people because actually

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I was doing too much for them sometimes. And I

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know you know this and your audience do as well,

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sometimes you can do too much for people, which doesn't

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help them at all. And I was really doing that.

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And then the kind of resentment was coming in about

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that and just all my feelings were getting on top

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of me. And when I say burnout, I wasn't burnout

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as in I didn't get up, I didn't. It wasn't

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that extreme. I think I meant, I think what I

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mean was burnout with that mental capacity because I was

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having too many negative thoughts too often during the day.

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And I think that I thrive myself to be the

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person that does four top things for me. One is

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I love setting intentions. I make sure my intentions are

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set for the week. Sometimes even in the morning my

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intentions are set for the day, sometimes they're not because

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I'm a mom of two and my first three hours

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of the day is my mom Judy. And then normally

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I'm like chasing my tail or whatever, but I will

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always set my intentions at the beginning of the week

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of what I want to achieve. And I also, when

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I put in that what I want to achieve, I

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link it to the energy I want to feel. Because

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if I put that energy, so energy of like clarity

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energy or like CEO energy of, or high performance energy

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or family mum supportive energy. If I don't, if I

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don't put that energy link, I almost don't show

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up in the right energy. Like I have to make

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that link. Lots of people talk about emotions linked to

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emotions, but for me that doesn't work because I think

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I'm so driven sometimes that I'll overcome any emotions I'm

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feeling and I'll put them aside. So the emotions doesn't

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work for me, but the energy does. What energy do

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I want to show up as? That works for me.

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So yeah, intention setting for me is the first one.

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The second one is reflection or like reflection time or

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I just call it like mental load offloading time. I

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try and make sure there's something transitioned in my diary

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at least every day for that, whether that's in the

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evening or whether that's. I just talked to you about

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what we've been up to today. I said, oh, I

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went to the gym and had a cheeky jacuzzi. And

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that was my reflection, my reset time. I need to

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make sure I do that. And then my third, like,

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high performance habit is me physically feeling like I am

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looking after my body and everybody looks different. What do

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I want to be fit for purpose for at the

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moment? What do I need to be fit for purpose

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for? And how am I physically looking after myself? And

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then my last one, which is probably where I really

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felt let down in the last couple of months, which

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I realized last weekend was social. A high performance habit

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for me is being social. I can hide away sometimes.

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I am very driven. So if I've got something on

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my list or my intentions or my goals, I am

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like all head down to get that done. And I

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forget that actually the ability to socialize, whether that be

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with one person, a lot of people showing up, sometimes

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even that socializing is with my children. I know that

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sounds silly, but, like, I need to get out of

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my own head and be present with other people. And

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that is like my four high performance habits that if

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I somehow am not really aware of any of them

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and I'm. I consistently let myself down. And that is

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when the overwhelm hits for me and a little bit

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of the mental load burnout comes. Yeah, I like that.

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I think the. The reality for me and I just

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spent. I said to you, I've just spent the day

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teaching high performance leaders at Cranfield University. And yeah,

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the reality is that if we don't look after ourselves,

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we cannot show up for others. Yeah. And I know

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that's almost. Oh, yes, obviously. But people don't live it,

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right? They don't live it. And I talk about energy

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a lot, the same as you alluding to there. And

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there's the energy that we're given every day. We're given

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a pot of 100% of energy. And if we are

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thinking about yesterday and thinking about the things we haven't

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done, we give some energy to yesterday. And if we're

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thinking about tomorrow and what's coming, we're giving some energy

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to tomorrow. So now we don't have the energy. And

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for me, this is my. My routine as a morning

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routine so I can set myself up for the day.

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Breath, work, meditation, bet cold exposure. And those things just

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clear Away the energy. You do something odd in the

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morning and call the exposure. No matter how you do

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it, it's hard. Right? Yeah. I've done 1500, 2000 ice

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balls and every time I get in it's. What am

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I doing? And I've just spent 10

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days in Egypt. So tomorrow when I get in the

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ice bath, it's going to be really cold because even

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the cold showers in Egypt, a lot warmer than the

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cold showers. Yeah. So I think it's so important, especially

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as entrepreneurs, that we respect that we have to look

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after ourselves. And I like the other thing you were

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saying there about reinventing that because as a sports person,

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you spent your whole life going through getting better and

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getting better and getting better and we get comfortable, then

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we don't get better. Yeah, I love learning. I spend

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all day learning about all sorts of things and I

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dig into learning and that's something that really feeds me.

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And yeah, if I'm not learning, I start feeling very

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stale. But I've also got a. I'm going to stop

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learning in some stages that I can do. So that

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becomes the bit of a challenge. And yeah, yeah, this

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process of flushing up my previous emotions and breath work

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is so good with that. I don't know if you've

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done any breath work, but doing the breath work to

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flush out my emotions every day, that really helps. Yeah,

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yeah, yeah, yeah. Really interesting. I think I figured out

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last week at the retreat, I was at the business

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retreat, I was at one of the kind of, of

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next level things that I'm going to start doing and

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it was. And I don't know if you've heard of

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this and I wish I remembered the author that put

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this together. I might have to go away and look

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for it, but it is the difference between the gap

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and the gains mindset. So I think I've been. Because

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I'm so driven and I felt like I was getting

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frustrated. I think I spend a lot of time in

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the gap mindset of, oh, gosh, I haven't reached that

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goal yet, or I haven't done what I said I

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was going to do there yet, or I haven't managed

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to deliver this or, or I thought I would be

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further along in my training. Like the gap. Like it's

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that gap mindset of this is where I started, this

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is where I want to get. But I'm so focused

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on why I haven't got there yet. You know, I'm

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like overanalyzing why I haven't got there yet and not

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either. Not Trusting the process or getting really frustrated. So

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the energy and the thoughts that come around in that

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gap mindset is really limited thinking. There's a little bit

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of fear, frustration, resentment. Like I said already, there's quite

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a lot that hangs out in that area for me.

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So one thing that I'm trying to work on now

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is move to that gains mindset of, look

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where I started, look where I am now, look at

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what I've gained to get there and then reflect and

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go. These three gains are gonna. What's going to propel

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me to get to where I'm hoping to get to.

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And I think that automatically. I don't know, I felt

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that already. Just talk to like, I already felt like

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almost like that next authority level of. Yeah, that's exactly

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where I might. I just automatically. Something came through my

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body just by saying, look how far I've come already

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and just reflecting on what I've done to get where

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I am now and what can I take forward to

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to get to where I want to go. So that

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gains mindset. So that's one of the things that I'm.

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I've been working on this week. I think there's something

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in that randomly. One of the things that I. I

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have done and done a fair amount of is coaching

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people to fly in the winter. So I coach skydiving

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and I coach winter offline. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I

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love it. And skydivers are entrepreneurial

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by nature in that, you know, they're always pushing and

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pushing and they're always trying to. And they get very

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much into that gap mindset. Yeah, I just want to

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be. How many times I've heard somebody come and say,

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I just want to be able to do this, I

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just want to be able to do that. And I

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learned a while ago that going through and going to

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the next level, there's always another level. There's always another

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level. There's always some guy who's 20 years old who's

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just going to fly rings around you and you're always

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going to want to push there. And if you can't

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enjoy the journey, if you can't enjoy the process of

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learning. Yeah. Then don't bother doing it. Literally, if you're

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just going to keep on pushing. And that comes back

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to what I was saying earlier about energy. Because by

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doing the gap mindset, you're actually giving energy to the

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future. You don't have it today, you literally. You can't

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spend that energy today. And if you don't have it

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today, if you think about what that's actually doing for

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you. Right. You're not able to to put the energy

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into today. So you don't get the outcomes today and

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you don't get the progress today. And it's just this

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in learning to enjoy the moment in everything we do.

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I mean, this morning I woke up, we talk AI

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broad. Do you use Claude much? Oh, Claude's

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my go to. There's a Sonos 4.5 is out there.

378

And yeah, I was trying the new version this morning

379

and using a couple of different pieces and. It

380

just blew my mind entirely again at how detailed

381

and how well it's interacting and responding. And yeah,

382

I then went to chat because I put them next

383

to each other. So I use Jen Spark, I use

384

Claude, I use ChatGPT, I use, you know, Gemini and

385

put them together and just see which. Which is which.

386

And chatgpt, yeah, not so much, but they've really taken

387

a slight dive down in my estimation. My own humble

388

estimation. And Claude just entirely blue. I

389

was able to normally attach a bit to you when

390

you go in and you say, okay, I need a

391

long list of things done. It'll do the first five

392

things well and then the rest of this won't do.

393

Yeah, I literally had this entire list just spat out

394

for me. Implaud. So again, where it would have taken

395

me, I think when we started using AI, both of

396

us, it was this case of, okay, I don't write

397

very well either. I don't touch type. And being able

398

to vocalize and then getting that vocalization to come out

399

and my thoughts to appear on a page and then

400

to adjust those thoughts, keeping the thought leadership for sure,

401

was just such a game changer. Just allowed me to

402

do so much more. Now you're getting to the stage

403

where these things just become better and better. Yeah. If

404

you haven't already, Both Claude and chatgpt have gone very,

405

very bespoke down the agent like agentic workflows. So ChatGPT

406

have released SDK and their agent mode has really upped

407

the vibe. But Claude was amazing. So last night I

408

had a play around with have you used the Imagine?

409

No, but it's on the list for this afternoon. Honestly,

410

you are going to be blown away and you're gonna

411

have so much fun. It is out of this world.

412

The only thing that I love. I tell you what

413

I loved about it and this is a mindset thing.

414

Pushing my dog down. Sorry, please go away. This is

415

a mindset thing. So we are now working with generative

416

AI that You can almost given

417

give a outcome that you want with some context and

418

a little bit more openness about how the agent's going

419

to achieve it. And then you let the agent do

420

the thinking of how they're going to achieve what you

421

want. And that is a different way to think of

422

it. Because if we think about a general chat we've

423

been going and we've been can you do this for

424

me? And oh, can, you know, I'm looking for you

425

to be able to write this content or can you

426

be my brainstorm partner on this? But, but it's so

427

narrow thinking. It's almost like we, it's almost like we

428

have to give it step by step to get to

429

where we want to. Like we all have to change

430

like almost what we do in life when we do,

431

when we set one, three, five year goals or whatever,

432

like where do you want to get? And then sometimes

433

that's the vision, right? The mission, the vision. And then

434

if we break that down into strategy and then you

435

break that down to tactics and sometimes you don't know

436

the tactics, you only know the strategy and then other

437

times you know the tactics but you're not quite sure

438

how it fits into the strategy. But at the end

439

of the day you still have your mission and your

440

vision. And I think that's the same when working with

441

an AI, especially now that the agent modes can out

442

of this world what they can do, just hit them

443

with a mission or a vision or an outcome, hit

444

them with that, give it some context about the strategy

445

of why you need to do it and then let

446

it do the tactics, let it do that for it

447

because it's the smartest thing. Keep, keep adding that domain

448

expertise in which is your personal knowledge, experience and perspective.

449

Because at the end of the day generative AI got

450

as smart as it is from our human knowledge and

451

it's at the point now where it keeps training on

452

our human knowledge, but it's training on its own knowledge

453

now. And if we don't keep adding as much human

454

domain expertise as possible, we're going to have AIs in

455

2030 that are just AI trained on AI. There's not

456

enough per human elements to any of their training. So

457

it's really important that we think about that ethically of

458

adding as as much point as possible. But going back

459

to that mindset, it's give them a mission, give the

460

agent a mission, maybe give it some context to add

461

in a bit of strategy and then leave the rest

462

of the strategy and the tactics to it and let

463

it just blow your mind about what it can achieve.

464

And at the end of the day I believe AI

465

is here to amplify our intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. I agree

466

with that. I think on that point as well. We've

467

spoken a couple of times about thought leadership and I

468

think that's a very important piece of AI I work

469

with. I've been using a lot of N8N and make.com

470

and Zapier and these automations and flows. And as you

471

go through the process of actually setting these things up

472

and working with them, you end up understanding that you

473

have to still keep. Sorry. Hello.

474

How are you? Sorry everybody. No worries. Yeah. And being

475

the architect. Right. Yeah. There's this architectural role in AI

476

now that I think there's going to be a few

477

select humans that end up doing very well. Yeah. 100

478

without this architect role. Yes. I can go to a

479

court and say I'm building an innate hand workflow and

480

I want to do some this. And it'll go off

481

and it'll do a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah. And

482

then there's 10% of it or 20% or 30% that

483

just won't work as well. And if you don't keep

484

that human kind of element of what. I'm the thought

485

leader. I'm running the show here. Yeah. And I want

486

you to help me. I hope you're doing this wrong.

487

I hope you're doing that wrong. Over you. This wrong.

488

Yeah. You end up getting something that's not created by

489

you. Yeah. 100 yeah. And that's just keep on feeding.

490

And this is my vision. This is my goal. This

491

is. These are my words. Yeah. And I feel that's

492

really where the power is going to come from. If

493

you can. If we can bring, like you said, you

494

can keep on bringing more human into it and keep

495

on bringing the human up to the top. And AI

496

is pretty good at emotion now. Yeah. But then you,

497

you can tell the difference. Right? You can tell the

498

difference if you don't bring it in. And that's I

499

think what people start using it. They start using ChatGPT

500

and. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. And then the hum and

501

horror about it because they haven't come back and reiterated

502

until they've got to almost their own words but not

503

quite their own words. That makes sense. Yeah. 100 and

504

I think also we don't realize that there is actually

505

an element of the education of AI. Like we have

506

been given generative AI models to play with the numbers

507

endless. I think we're up to something like 22, 23

508

AI models. Like, it's insane what's available, and we don't

509

really know how to use it. And we're, like, playing

510

around and testing and trying to keep up with things.

511

But there is a. There is an element of the

512

education of AI, like AI literacy. Do you know the

513

security measures? Do you realize some of the little arts

514

of prompting? Do you realize that you can customize your

515

AI? Do you realize you can use deep research? Do

516

you realize you can add a second brain to your

517

AI by creating a project or a space or an

518

agent, as it's called in Microsoft Copilot? You know that

519

second brain is extra files and then custom instructions. Do

520

you realize you can do that? Oh, and then. Do

521

you realize you can now use agent? An agentic workflow.

522

So an agent mode, an agent that again, you give

523

it an outcome, and then an outcome of what you

524

want, and then it sends off the agents that it

525

needs to do to achieve that for you. Did you

526

realize that you can do something called vibe coding, which

527

is basically talking to an agent, telling them what you

528

want, and it goes off and creates the code and

529

creates it for you. Like, the thing is, we don't

530

know we can actually do that yet, and we're using

531

it so simply because we haven't understood that

532

there is actually the education of AI. Like, you do

533

need to learn how to use this amazing technology not

534

just for business, but for life. I got to guest

535

on a podcast last night which was amazing. It was

536

called the two two Mums podcast, I think. And I

537

had to riff on, like, all of the ways that

538

I use AI for life, not anything to do with

539

business. It was so much fun. I talk about my.

540

My recipe. I call it Recipe Rascal, a project in

541

Gemini. I've got it. It's a gem in Gemini. And

542

I just take pictures of our fridge, and it's trained

543

on all things about my children, what they like, they

544

don't take a picture and, like, help me create a

545

meal. And this is. We did sausage and mash, and

546

my young one goes, we had this just the other

547

day. And I. We didn't. Gemini. When did I last

548

cook this? Oh, yeah, it was three weeks ago. And

549

even this morning, we were driving to school. Gemini is

550

my favorite to talk to. It's probably because it's a

551

bit more educational and the vibes not, I don't know,

552

corny. Like, it's quite a nice vibe. So we're driving

553

to school this morning, and this the moon is out

554

like full moon. It's absolutely beautiful. So I said, oh,

555

I wonder why that's out. And my four year old

556

obviously didn't know over her head. And my 8 year

557

old knew probably a little bit more to be than

558

me to be fair. She loves learning information. I said,

559

let's ask Gemini. So you jump onto Gemini. Gemini. We're

560

in Oxfordshire in the UK, it's 8am we can see

561

a full moon. Can you explain why we can see

562

that? And then I said, oh, Evie's here, she's four.

563

Can you. She's going to ask you some questions. And

564

then I think Evie's question was, how come I can't

565

see the stars right now when I can see the

566

moon? And then Ella Rose is my oldest one and

567

her question was something about the sun being a star

568

or something like that. And we just ended up talking

569

to Gemini all morning learning something. But it was fun.

570

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how I got to that

571

point, but I think the point of AI is it.

572

It. We can't just think about it for business, in

573

my opinion. We can't just think about it as business

574

processes or saving time. We have to think about as

575

a whole. I'll dig into that a little bit more.

576

You mentioned beginning of the conversation about the brainstorming and

577

I use AI specifically to help me unload my

578

mind. So I brain dump everything into it. Yeah. And

579

when I'm. Especially when I'm right now, I don't have

580

very much to brain dump because I've just got back

581

from Egypt. Yeah. So my mind's quite empty. Yeah. But

582

yeah, when I do get to the point of, okay,

583

I've got this on this one, I've got this on

584

over the next couple of days I'll just. This is

585

my goal for the next three weeks. Yeah. I need

586

to get these things done and I'm just going to

587

brainstorm everything that's in my mind and can you give

588

me a list of what order I should do it

589

in? So that was. That's very useful. And then I've

590

used ChatGPT extensively in the past that the talking function

591

to actually have a. You sit down. I'm an engineer

592

or I was an engineer for many years and I,

593

I learned something early on that if there's one engineer

594

sitting working on a problem, it might take a while,

595

but I put another engineer sitting next to them and

596

they just have a conversation. It gets done much quicker.

597

So how do we use this technology to. To supplement

598

the human Condition. Right. How do we use it for

599

this technology to actually say, okay, yeah, it is. AI

600

is the next evolution. Yeah. And we instead of thinking

601

inside our brains now, we can start thinking outside our

602

brains. And that's a bit of an odd statement, but

603

would let me go in a little bit deeper. Yeah.

604

Beforehand we take books and we learn and we learn.

605

Yeah. And then we process internally and we come after

606

something. But nowadays we don't. We don't have to do

607

it anymore. We just need to know what the problem

608

is. Yeah. And then we can go out and the

609

information is stored in other places outside and we can

610

then go in. Yeah. And solve the problem. So, yeah,

611

I'm just able to do so much more with so

612

much less internal processing that I think if we can

613

start using AI in that format. Yeah. And teaching that

614

the kids, the way the youngsters are using it is

615

so much different from the way we use it. Right.

616

Yeah. Yeah. So it's an interesting. It's an interesting player,

617

I think. Think. Where are we going to be in

618

schools? Where are we going to be in universities? Where

619

are we going to be in all these other places?

620

Because now we can actually solve much bigger problems because

621

we have access to all the knowledge everywhere. And information

622

is no longer an expensive thing. No. 100%. The leverage

623

has changed. I think back in the day it was

624

people with the leverage and then it was labor. It

625

was a group of people who thinks to manufacturing. And

626

then leverage become the ability to raise capital. And

627

then the leverage became the ability to hit big markets

628

via the Internet. And then the next leverage became media.

629

Right. That you could get a piece of content out

630

there. That was leverage. The Internet. The Internet was coding,

631

so that was the leverage. And then we're up to

632

media. And then I think with AI, the leverage is

633

the ability to create. Create products, services,

634

to solve a problem at the speed of light without

635

needing any of those leverages we've had before. Without needing

636

people, without needing labor, without needing money, without needing code,

637

and without needing media. So all of those are out

638

the window. We are at the point where all it

639

is solving problems. You know, if you could pick a

640

problem to solve and you're full of ideas, you can

641

MVP it at any point and you can progress from

642

there. And I think that's really exciting. But I think

643

that's also a bit scary because traditional businesses are going

644

to need to learn how to adjust to that. And

645

there was a stat that I was talking about to

646

a recruitment company this morning that I was doing a

647

Workshop with because it's very relevant for them. And Jen,

648

Jen Alpha, I think I might have told this stuff

649

to you before. Gen Alpha, who were born 2010-2013, 64%

650

of their jobs do not currently exist and they'll be

651

in the workforce by 2030. But also another stat that's

652

really important is 76% of them want to start their

653

own business, they want to be entrepreneurs. Only 13% of

654

them want to work for other people. So how does

655

that work with the shift that we're doing now? Will

656

businesses end up having more consultants or contractors? Will there

657

be more shares in a business? Will people be doing

658

business partnerships because they want to be entrepreneurs? They don't

659

want to come in at the traditional bottom level and

660

work them might work themselves up. They're only going to

661

be. Yeah, the stats are 13 that will want to

662

work for somebody else. 76% of them want to start

663

their own business and 64 of their jobs do not

664

currently exist. I can't even wrap my head up even

665

though I'm in the industry and I know where we're,

666

I know where we're going, I know we're all going

667

to have agents that are set up to do a

668

lot of tasks for us. I do believe that if

669

you're in the leisure industry, you're in a good position

670

because people are to crave human connection. I do believe

671

that there's a massive shift in education, online education. We

672

are implement information for free implementation for a fee. Online

673

courses are going to be dead. Like all of that

674

is massively changing and I know that, but I still

675

can't get my head around what on earth it's going

676

to. What on earth it's going to look like. Yeah,

677

really interesting. How do we go now into this next

678

stage? And actually I always used to pride myself on

679

being able to look forward five years and see where

680

things were going same and now I've got, if I

681

can do three months, I'm like, okay. What I do

682

see happening and you know there's going to be like

683

you say leisure travel, people that are massage people and

684

physically using their hands and interacting with people. Those will

685

be a much more attractive position. Yeah, but then you're

686

going to have all the 70% of people that are

687

currently not working flowing into those jobs. The plumbers, the

688

electricians, the, the builders. There's going to be a flux

689

there. So it's going to be this really intense change

690

of what we're doing and yeah, it's where it goes.

691

Who knows God, I know. Yeah, yeah. I'm wondering now

692

though, what do you think about the adoption of AI

693

across companies? What are you seeing out there? Yeah, there's

694

so many people. Yes, I use Chat GPT and 95

695

of people that are using ChatGPT or maybe rewriting emails.

696

Yeah. And it's just there's this perception that, oh,

697

it's going to make me lazy and yes, it will

698

in some cases, but it can also make you a

699

much deeper thinker. Yeah, but the calculator didn't make us

700

lazy and the Excel spreadsheet didn't make us lazy, it

701

made us more powerful. Anyway, I'm probably different to you

702

in many ways in my thoughts because I do not

703

start with automations and I know that's where, where your

704

superpower is. So, yeah, I don't start with automations. I

705

start with how do we amplify the human in every

706

element of what they're doing? How do we change their

707

job description? So their job description is them using AI

708

powered workflows. So that's where I start. And I often

709

start with a couple of things, like what AI system

710

are you guys is the business using? And does the

711

business own the intellectual property? You'd be surprised at how

712

many SMEs. I work with a creative agency the other

713

day where they're all using personal ChatGPT accounts and they're

714

trying to sell in two years. And I'm like, you

715

don't own any data. Like, it's got nothing to do

716

with, with data security or ip. They don't have any

717

secure information about any of the clients, anything like that.

718

They don't have any of that. That's not the problem.

719

They're all creative, they're just doing proposals. I'm like, what

720

if one of the ladies there's called Zoe? What if

721

Zoe leaves? You can't access any of her chats. So

722

that's the first thing of, okay, we are moving to

723

using AI every day. How are you keeping it within

724

the business for intellectual property? Because if you need to

725

go and try and chain an agent to create your

726

templates for some of your creative stuff, how do you

727

do that if you don't have the chat that to

728

do the training? Because all data, whether it be synthetic,

729

which is off the. Off what the AI creates or

730

whether it be real data, which is conversations between humans,

731

like it doesn't matter. They're both really valuable and you

732

need both of them and you'd have access to both

733

of them. So yeah, start a little Bit with that.

734

And then like I said, my kind of three stages,

735

which is your basic level security customization within your AI.

736

And then we look at next level which is creating

737

your assistants, your AI assistants, your GPTs, your however

738

else. I think they're called agents in copilot that next

739

level of personalized AI. And then we move to agent

740

what, what pre trained agents can you create or work

741

with? What agentic workflows can you create? And then we

742

look a little bit of. I do think the differentiation

743

is those that are using AI are good now and

744

I'm so pleased they are. We are using AI and

745

especially since this time last year, it was, it was

746

hard work to get some people to even try. So

747

the fact that they're using it is amazing. But where

748

the big advantage is going to be is that build

749

with AI. That is going to be the difference. It

750

was back in the revolution of industrial, it was those

751

people that use the machines and then those people that

752

built the machines. We know those that built the machines

753

were the ones that were able to fly above everybody

754

else. So it's the same with AI. Those that use

755

AI are good, you'll stay ahead of the curve, you

756

do your things. But those that build with AI will

757

really make the impact. So we start to look a

758

little bit about vibe coding and then we look at

759

agents and automations and so forth. But I tend to

760

do it last because one, it's probably not my superpower

761

like yours, but two, I do think in a lot

762

of businesses the systems are broken and no automation is

763

gonna. No AI automation. That's where I start. I look

764

at the business operating system, I Look at the SOPs,

765

you know, I look at what's the actual. Where are

766

the problems? Many businesses, I see the challenge is that

767

the knowledge sits in the admin person's head and the

768

salesperson's head and the marketer's head and they know how

769

to get the workflow from A to B to C.

770

But it's not documented anywhere. And if it's not documented

771

anywhere, that's your first massive risk because that person then

772

leaves and then you have to work it all out.

773

So yeah, you may as well work it all out

774

now. Once you have it properly documented, then you can

775

start the process, whether it's agentical or whatever it is.

776

But without that you don't, you just don't get that.

777

No. Yeah. So where do you think the next six

778

months will take us? Oh yeah. So I think with

779

your off the shelf large language models like Claude and

780

chatgpt, they, they have just gone and really upped the

781

ability to use agent mode. So your Imagine's a perfect

782

example. On Claude in Gemini, you can go to Google

783

Studio for free and start building apps which you can

784

now share. And ChatGPT have just released their kind of

785

connectors, their SDKs as well, Software development kit it stands

786

for. So it's definitely become more accessible. So I think

787

the next six months is us at the. What I

788

would call. And I don't love saying this, but I

789

think it resonates with people, us non techies. I think

790

for us, the next six months is going to be

791

exploring the capabilities of creating and building with AI and

792

personalizing your AI. That's where I think the next six

793

month lies. I'm seeing such a challenge at the moment

794

because people are not using the power of AI to

795

save themselves time and therefore use that time to learn

796

more about how to use it. Yeah, there's this block

797

against AI. Yeah, I don't want to use it, I

798

can't use it. I'm just going to carry on. But

799

if you start engaging and start using it, then you

800

can learn more about it. And so many people will

801

start with, I said I'll use this for your holidays,

802

use it for your recipes, use this for just getting.

803

Just start using it. Yeah, because once you plant the

804

seed and you're like, oh, yes, I can do this

805

or I can do this, I can do this, then

806

you can actually start thinking about how this affects your

807

business. That's a process. It's a process. I see people

808

getting left behind at the moment. I see there's this

809

gap widening and I think there's a whole new career

810

of the things that you're doing. Yeah. Coming in saying,

811

okay, actually, yeah, I'm gonna have to take your hand

812

and hold your hand and move you through this process

813

of learning. Yeah. So that people can shortcut it. And

814

one of the excuses I hear quite often is I'm

815

not going to learn now because in six months is

816

going to do it for me. It's getting more complicated

817

in a different way. Yeah, no, spot on. I agree

818

with all of that. But like, I just try and

819

remind people, like I come from an era of when

820

I was at uni, I was using a BlackBerry. The

821

BlackBerry is not around anymore. And it is a really

822

super simple analogy, but I had to learn to use

823

the smartphone and it changed my complete operating system. It

824

changed the way I access information, I communicate and I

825

make decisions. Everything is done through my Smartphone. The

826

same is going to be with AI. So, you know,

827

stop putting your ego ahead and stop putting any blocks

828

in there and address any fears you have. And of

829

course, just like any technology, there's pros and cons. Social

830

media, the amount of cons that are with there, that.

831

Do they outweigh the pros? I'm not sure. But at

832

the time, the pros were high for us all. And

833

then as time went on, there were cons. So there's

834

pros and cons to everything. Not saying that AI is

835

going to solve everything and it all smells like roses.

836

There are many issues, you know, related to that. But

837

at the end of the day, it is changing human,

838

humans. It's changing humans. Generative AI is changing humans. So

839

if it changes humans, it changes businesses and the economy

840

and therefore life. You know that now is not the

841

time to bury your head in the sand and make

842

excuses and let fear get in the way. Now is

843

the time to enjoy it, be creative of, use it,

844

create yourself a little challenge about it. And like you

845

said, enjoy the journey. I've got a little light behind

846

me. It says, enjoy every moment. And every time I

847

walk in, I turn it on. Every time I walk

848

out, I look at it, I go, did I enjoy

849

the moment of working today? Turn it off. Like, it's

850

just little reminders that you do have to enjoy the

851

journey. Because we don't know whether we're here tomorrow and

852

we don't. Sometimes we don't even know the positive impact

853

that we have on people in our lives unless we're

854

here and we're present. Yeah. And then that's just one

855

of the biggest blocks that I see, especially in businesses,

856

and it's such a difficult one. So I'm really interested

857

in your perspective. The element of security and

858

the perception of security in AI is causing many people

859

not to do AI. Yeah, it's insecure. I'm going to

860

put my. I've had questions about people saying, yeah, but

861

if I put my good idea into AI, then AI

862

is going to know about it and somebody else is

863

going to do it. And I come back to when

864

I've been in it for so long, your laptop, you

865

know, the settings on your Google, which is probably, if

866

you don't turn them off, it's recording every conversation. Your

867

phone, every single one of us is in the conversation,

868

and suddenly things pop up on your feed. What

869

is your perception of the risks of the security element

870

on AI? How do you mitigate those? The whole office

871

is talking, Everybody's Using that chatgpt from home. They're using

872

Gemini, they're doing the control element that people, companies think

873

they have, isn't there? Yeah. Conversely to that, what is

874

the actual risk of the security element in ar? Yeah,

875

a lot of lot to unpick there and I'm not

876

sure I could give it in a structured way, but

877

I'll just blurt out what I think. First of all,

878

there's the education of it. Like, like we have all

879

learned on emails that if something seems like a spam,

880

don't press the link. Like it is. You have to

881

learn that. You have to be told that you have

882

to. When. If you go into a corporate job, that's

883

like the whole data security and that whole process on

884

cyber security is one of your first trainings because it,

885

because, because it's the same in using AI. It is.

886

You should be on a paid version. If you're on

887

a paid version, your data is, is encrypted anyway. It's

888

only available on your cloud for 30 days as well.

889

It's only safe for 30 days. And you can easily

890

go into an AI. Perplexity is my favorite for this

891

and go in and say, I'm about to use this

892

AI tool. What is the security issues? And it's just

893

about up. It's just about upskilling yourself in that. And

894

all you've got to do is ask the question. But

895

it's the same. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like

896

you just have to learn these things. It they. It's

897

a very complicated field, but it's no different to email,

898

to tech spam, to, you know, people calling and trying

899

to get money off you, off the phone. It's the

900

same thing like that. We just have to be really

901

vigilant about it and understand that it's there. In terms

902

of flipping it to the ip, I disagree with it.

903

I want to be empathetic to the creative world. Don't

904

get me wrong, I totally do. And I think there

905

are a lot of companies doing their best to try

906

and encourage people not to use other people's intellectual property.

907

So if I went in and said I want to

908

train a GPT on this book, it will say this

909

book is copyrighted. There are steps like that available. But

910

in terms of like intellectual property, once you put something

911

out there to the world, yes, it is known to

912

come from you, but you can. Anyone's going to be

913

able to take that. Even if I go and read

914

your book, say you deliver a book, I've paid to

915

Read your book, but I can take your ideas and

916

I can put my own perspective on it and create

917

what I like. Mel Robbins is one of my favorite

918

motivational speakers. I don't know if you've heard of her,

919

but yeah, yeah. So one of her books, not Five,

920

four, three, the Concept Let Them, which is her last

921

book, she openly says that's her perspective on something she

922

learned from a personal development guru, which is she read,

923

but that's her perspective and she talked about how she

924

uses it. So once it's out there, it's creative. I

925

don't mean to be rude, but if you look at

926

all the pop artists like Bruno Mars, he got his

927

inspiration from Michael Jackson and then he goes and creates

928

a song and it's his intellectual, probably his copyright. I

929

get that. But at the end of the day, everyone's

930

learning off everybody. And I think AI just becomes.

931

Makes it a little bit more accessible and it makes

932

it a little bit more accessible for you to understand

933

a concept from your perspective or the questions that you

934

ask, which then allow you to produce something. So I

935

don't know. Look, I have empathy around the. Those in

936

the creative world, those that, that create scripts, you know,

937

that there's been their own work up until now, and

938

those that take pictures or draw artists and all of

939

a sudden, nano bananas recreating. I, I don't, I don't

940

get it because I'm not a creative. From that perspective,

941

I do empathize that it's tough, but I'm also believe

942

in abundance. And also I have, I have a mindset

943

that loves to create opportunities. So you can either sit

944

there and you can complain and you can, I don't

945

know, you can get upset about it and you can

946

rally and you can do all those things. Absolutely. But

947

you can also twitch switch something in your mind. That

948

said, that mindset that says, I have a superpower, I

949

have a skill set, I am experienced, I am knowledgeable,

950

and I have a perspective. What can I create? What

951

opportunities can I create for myself to move me forward,

952

to move the industry forward to. It takes people like

953

that in the world to step up. Up to allow

954

us to get through tough times where, you know, we

955

think that intellectual property is no longer safe. But yeah,

956

if you're on a. To go back to that. If

957

you're on a paid version of any large language model,

958

it's not using your data. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And

959

I think that. Yeah, we'll wrap up in a second.

960

I think there's so much going forward. Yeah. So much

961

change going forward that the only thing again that we

962

can guarantee is massive change. And yeah, best just prepare

963

yourself for it. And what do you say as a

964

final kind of statement? What would you say is the

965

best way for people to prepare themselves if they're not

966

even haven't even looked at AI yet? You got to

967

start, you got to start Delete. I'm not going to

968

say delete Google, but because Google now has AI search

969

so it's fine. Instead of going to Google for things

970

that you would go to, go to Perplexity AI download

971

Perplexity free version, use Perplexity instead of Google. Just start

972

chatting with ChatGPT or Gemini or Claude. Whichever one you

973

choose, just start chatting with it. Use the voice note

974

and just start chatting with it once a day. Get

975

ready to. Think about how you can be strategic using

976

an AI. Remember, it's not that it's not a intern

977

where you've got to give step by step instructions to.

978

It's the smartest thing we've done, we've had access to.

979

So just basically communicate what is an IT that you

980

think you want? And I say you think you want

981

because. My hubby will say something like, oh, if you

982

have a takeaway or something, he'll say something like, oh,

983

what takeaway do you want? And then he'll I don't

984

know, you choose. And he'll say Indian. I'll go, oh

985

no, I don't want an Indian. I don't know what

986

I want until I don't want that. I just say

987

we don't. We're humans, we think we want something, but

988

we don't. Keep that in mind when you're talking to

989

your AI as well or you're asking for something, just

990

start to think about an outcome that you want and

991

say the outcome that you want and then let the

992

magic happen around you. But remember that we have to

993

use it ethically and add as much human interaction to

994

the chat with your AI as possible. Get started, you

995

won't regret it. And like you say, Roy, enjoy the

996

journey. Thank you very much for joining me and I'll

997

put all your contact details on the podcast. And yeah,

998

we look forward to chatting in the future in six

999

month time and seeing what we actually have to say.

00:51:13,460 --> 00:51:15,560

Amazing. I look forward to it. Thanks, Ray. It.