Shownotes
John and Kaylee sit down with Frank and Perry from Right to Bear, the self-defense legal protection program born out of a conversation with Palmetto State Armory. Both guests are insurance agents by trade, 36 years in the business, and they explain how a question they asked PSA about protecting its own customer base turned into a company. They started Right to Bear as an insurance product, scrapped it after 30 days, and relaunched in July 2022 as a legal defense association. Membership runs $145 a year or $13 a month, and Frank and Perry make the case that it is the most cost-effective self-defense plan in the country.
The bulk of the episode walks through exactly what a member gets. When you have a self-defense incident, you call an attorney-answered emergency hotline, so attorney-client privilege begins the second you pick up the phone. Right to Bear chose the non-insurance route to keep control of its claims decisions, and the guests describe a gray-area North Carolina case and a wrongfully charged Michigan police officer they both backed and won. They cover criminal and civil defense, explain why they cover the civil defense but not the judgment, and detail after-care: personal calls to members and up to 40 counseling sessions. Their chief program attorney, Kristen Keller out of Golden, Colorado, leads an attorney network the guests say is vetted for genuine belief in self-defense, not just another revenue source.
From there the conversation widens into Second Amendment culture and government overreach. Kaylee and John press on gun-free zones, college campuses, DAs chasing wins, and the Alec Baldwin case, while Frank points to armed security for college presidents and entertainers as proof of "rules for thee and not for me." They mark a 20-year win for veterans in March over the VA fiduciary rule, frame GOA as the grassroots gun lobby funded by everyday members, and close on training, the "on ramp" to the Second Amendment, and personal responsibility. Frank and Perry point listeners to protectwithbear.com and the Right to Bear Association on social.
Links
Questions this episode answers
What is Right to Bear, and how did it grow out of a relationship with Palmetto State Armory?
Right to Bear is a self-defense legal protection program founded by two longtime insurance agents after they asked Palmetto State Armory how it could protect its own customer base. They describe Palmetto State Armory as their parent company, and the conversation turned that idea into a standalone association.
Why did Right to Bear move away from being an insurance product and become an association instead?
The founders launched Right to Bear as an insurance product but scrapped it after 30 days, relaunching in July 2022 as a legal defense association. Staying out of insurance lets them keep control of their own claims decisions and cover members in gray-area cases rather than defer to an insurer.
What happens when a member calls the hotline after a self-defense incident?
The emergency hotline is answered directly by one of Right to Bear's attorneys, so attorney-client privilege begins the moment a member picks up the phone. That attorney-answered line is central to how the program responds to an incident.
How much does a Right to Bear membership cost?
Membership is $145 a year or $13 a month. The founders argue it is the most cost-effective self-defense plan in the country.
Does Right to Bear cover both criminal and civil defense, and what is the limit on the civil side?
Right to Bear covers both criminal and civil defense for a self-defense incident. On the civil side it covers the cost of the defense but not any judgment awarded against the member.
What after-care and counseling does a member get following an incident?
After an incident, members get personal calls from Right to Bear and access to up to 40 counseling sessions if they need them. The program treats post-incident support as part of what membership includes.
How does Right to Bear vet and select the attorneys in its network?
Right to Bear's attorney network is led by chief program attorney Kristen Keller out of Golden, Colorado, and is vetted for genuine belief in self-defense rather than treating cases as just another revenue source.
What was the 20-year veterans win in March, and how did it change the VA fiduciary rule?
The founders mark a 20-year fight that ended in a March win for veterans tied to the VA fiduciary rule. They frame it as a long-sought change benefiting veterans, alongside their support of Gun Owners of America as the grassroots gun lobby funded by everyday members.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Meet Frank and Perry from Right to Bear
- 00:19 — The backstory: insurance agents and Palmetto State Armory
- 01:22 — From insurance product to legal defense association
- 04:25 — What happens when you call the hotline
- 06:54 — After-support and up to 40 counseling sessions
- 09:59 — Addressing fears about government and coverage
- 13:23 — Why they chose the non-insurance route
- 16:05 — How attorneys are vetted and selected
- 21:38 — DAs, win records, and gray-area charges
- 26:22 — Criminal versus civil defense explained
- 29:56 — Gun-free zones and campus self-defense
- 44:48 — The veterans fiduciary-rule win
- 55:48 — Grassroots GOA versus the elite anti-gun lobby
- 1:13:14 — Training, the on ramp, and where to find Right to Bear
About the guest
Frank and Perry are the co-founders of Right to Bear, a self-defense legal protection program. Both are insurance agents by trade with 36 years in the business. Right to Bear grew out of their relationship with Palmetto State Armory, which they describe as their parent company and "Mothership." They launched the program first as an insurance product, then relaunched it in July 2022 as the Right to Bear association offering legal defense for self-defense incidents. The website is protectwithbear.com. [VERIFY last names and individual roles]
Key quotes
"And once they call that hotline, it goes directly to one of our attorneys. And that's one of the best things about our program is that it's an attorney answered hotline." — Perry
"You have to be acting egregiously out of bounds to not get support from our association." — Perry
"If there's a gray area, we're going to cover our people and that's the decision we've decided to make. We want to remain in control of how we protect our people." — Frank
"We offer up to 40 counseling sessions after the incident had happened, if they need it." — Perry
"The best thing that you can do as a gun owner is be active in the fight to ensure that your right to self defense is present and is not taken away by a government that doesn't want you to have it." — Kaylee
"There's not a law on the books that you can change or add that will stop criminals from doing criminal things." — John
"We are the grassroots gun lobby. Period. Full stop." — Kaylee
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America's State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're here with Frank and Perry from right to Bear.
Speaker B:How are you guys doing today?
Speaker C:Fantastic.
Speaker C:Appreciate you guys having us on.
Speaker B:Appreciate you being on.
Speaker B:So let's start, tell a little backstory about the company.
Speaker C:You want to kick it off?
Speaker D:You know, we're both insurance agents by trade, been in the business for 36 years.
Speaker D:I know I don't look like it and the hair probably tells you different, but that was funny.
Speaker D:But 36 years, years in the business and we had a great client called Palmetto State Armory and we were visiting with them one day.
Speaker D:Perry actually had earned their trust and I broached the subject with them as to why they weren't protecting their own in house customer base.
Speaker D:And the light switch came on.
Speaker D:Their internal counsel called us back in about 24 hours later and the rest is history.
Speaker D:And we formed a great company called Right to Bear, which is without a doubt the best, most cost effective value centered legal defense for self defense in the country.
Speaker A:So your insurance agents by trade, you've done that for a few minutes.
Speaker A:But Right to Bear isn't insurance, right?
Speaker C:That's correct.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So we actually started Right to Bear as an insurance product.
Speaker C:So going back to our original date, right, insurance guys by trade, we, we rolled out an insurance product, had an insurance carrier, you know, had the limitations, the, you know, capped limits as the folks in our industry kind of know it as.
Speaker C:After 30 days we were like, we need to, we need to make a switch, right?
Speaker C:We were just getting into this business and trying to understand what did the market want, what were our, not only our members telling us, but what was the market telling us.
Speaker C: unched the program in July of: Speaker C:But we actually, we're an association now, so it's a Right to Bear association.
Speaker C:When you become a member of Right to Bear, you get the legal defense in the event of a self defense incident, right.
Speaker C:Whether it's with a firearm or not.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's, you know, you could use this water bottle.
Speaker C:We have an incident where we've had a member actually use a bag of avocados in their kitchen to defend themselves from a crazed domestic partner.
Speaker C:And you know, we've covered that and I can't obviously speak on the details of that, but 30,000 foot view, that's really what we do.
Speaker C:So then we offer, you know, non emergency questions.
Speaker C:Hey, I live in South Carolina, I'm going to Georgia to visit family.
Speaker C:What are some of the carry laws that are in Georgia?
Speaker C:Do I have reciprocity with my, you know, my permit in South Carolina into Georgia?
Speaker C:We offer different discounts to partners that we have all across the country.
Speaker C:We have over a thousand partners nationwide that are in their, you know, instructor range, whatever, promoting right to bear in their, their venue and in their lane.
Speaker C:We have over 600 affiliate partners over the Internet, whether it be social media, influencers, folks on YouTube.
Speaker C:It doesn't really, I mean really anybody.
Speaker C:And then you know, we try to keep our members up to date with the, the different law changes, you know, but you know, with a, a monthly newsletter.
Speaker C:So for instance, like with South Carolina, which we'll talk on the constitutional carry change, you know, in, in, in March here in a couple of days our members are going to be getting a full blown newsletter explaining what transpired in South Carolina when the conversation started all the way through, you know, a couple weeks ago when it was kind of rolled into law.
Speaker C:So they get numerous benefits as joining part of our association for, you know, $145 a year is a pretty solid bargain.
Speaker C:And so you know, I'll back Frank by saying that we really are the most cost effective and value centered self defense plan in the country.
Speaker C:If you look at what we offer for our rate compared to the other folks in our business, it, you know, doesn't really stand a chance.
Speaker C:You know, that's just the way it is.
Speaker C:And we've been ranked by, you know, numerous publications as the best provider in the space.
Speaker C:So we're excited about it.
Speaker B:So a lot of people, you, you go to a class, you hear the pitch about for these different things.
Speaker B:What happens when, if I pick up the phone and I call you guys, I get in a self defense situation.
Speaker B:How's that look?
Speaker C:Yeah, so when you become a member, you get access to your member portal, you get a member ID card, a digital one that you can save to your phone.
Speaker C:But we've trained our team in the field and in the member portal we want you to save that number.
Speaker C:You're not going to call a card, you're going to go to the number and call the number, save the emergency hotline as an emergency contact in your phone.
Speaker C:And once they call that hotline, it goes directly to one of our attorneys.
Speaker C:And that's one of the best things about our program is that it's an attorney answered hotline.
Speaker C:So the second, let's say you're a member of Right to Bear you have an incident, you just whacked some person with, you know, over the head with a bag of avocados and you're freaking out like, oh my God, I live in a state where they might lock me up for this.
Speaker C:You call the emergency hotline and you're going to get an attorney, which is really important because that confidentiality begins immediately.
Speaker C:So you have that attorney client privilege the second you pick up the phone and call.
Speaker C:Right to bear.
Speaker C:And so you, you know, you can counsel with our attorney.
Speaker C:And we've had cases where our attorney has been on speakerphone with the police and our member on the phone, they're holding the phone and the attorney's talking to the police saying, hey, X, Y and Z, this is what they're going to do.
Speaker C:We're going to evaluate what happened and then we'll get back to you and kind of following the legal procedure because what happens, you know, when you've used defenses, you freak out, motions are running high and you're just spouting off a bunch of different stuff to 911, the police, and that's where you can get yourself in big trouble.
Speaker C:And so having that hotline bridges that gap between what you did and then ultimately the legal system.
Speaker C:Because cult for what it is, we, we live our, our world in this country right now.
Speaker C:It's not a justice system, it's legal.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So you got to have people in your foxhole, right, that are going to defend you.
Speaker D:And John, if I might add, we really spent a great deal of time really just thinking through the attorney network we hired and put on our team.
Speaker D:The very best, most passionate two way attorneys in America.
Speaker D:They live and breathe the two way amendment.
Speaker D:And, and we're very proud of that.
Speaker D:We have attorneys on our, that worked in the George Bush administration.
Speaker D:We have attorneys that have defended Homeland Security members and they're passionate about what they do.
Speaker D:So they're not hourly guys that just got out of law school answering the phone and trying to pave their way through some mission that they're really not familiar with.
Speaker D:These are real pros of what they do.
Speaker B:So with your plan, after everything is said and done, let's just say again, self defense situation, I call you guys.
Speaker B:I get.
Speaker B:What all do you offer for after support too?
Speaker C:Yeah, no, that's a great question.
Speaker C:So one of the things that we take a lot of pride in is so say a member has had the issue they've had, they're going to go through the legal procedure of speaking with our attorney.
Speaker C:Our attorney is going to go down the line and have that counsel, Frank and I will call them together and say, hey, Mr. Smith, how you doing?
Speaker C:Are you okay?
Speaker C:We just want you to know that Right to Bear has your back.
Speaker C:We are here to help you feel comforted.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You acted in self defense.
Speaker C:Our attorneys are handling the legal proceedings moving forward.
Speaker C:You're in great hands.
Speaker C:We go down the credentials of the attorney that's handling the case, you know, and you know, we're there to hold their hand after the fact.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because at the end of the day, this goes back to our insurance world in our insurance days is people don't need you until they need you.
Speaker C:And if you're not there when they need you, then what are you in the business for?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Frank says it all the time.
Speaker C:He said, the moment that we stop caring about our members, I'm done, I'm out.
Speaker C:I can go, I can go golf or something, right?
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker C:So, you know, and then you talk about what do we do after the fact.
Speaker C:You know, we have, you know, one of our, I guess you can call it coverages.
Speaker C:One of our benefits of our program is we offer psychological support.
Speaker C:So we offer up to 40 counseling sessions after the incident had happened, if they need it.
Speaker C:And we find that to be very important because, you know, as you might imagine, I mean, whether it's avocados or, you know, heaven forbid you have to use a firearm, you're going to be shook, needless to say.
Speaker C:And having somebody there to hold your hand mentally and emotionally and obviously legally and financially, we're already there for you.
Speaker C:But we find that to be an extreme value to our members to show them that, hey, we're willing to, you know, spend an additional five to ten grand on counseling for you to make sure that you're okay.
Speaker D:You know, if I might add, John Kelly too, we, we live and breathe with a servant's heart.
Speaker D:We, we want to serve the folks that are a part of our team.
Speaker D:Not only a part of our team, but our membership base.
Speaker D:And so oftentimes in a stand your ground incident, it's a very emotional high anxiety event.
Speaker D:Much like when you have an officer involved shooting, they typically give the officer 48 hours off to really collect his thoughts before he makes a statement.
Speaker D:A lot of our competitors out there right now, and we admire them greatly, there's some great companies out there, but they basically turn the legal issue over to their lawyers and they don't really hear from anyone else.
Speaker D:We personally reach out, I personally reach out to our members and just hold onto them, nurture them a little bit and tell them, look, we're there for you.
Speaker D:We want you to understand that you're not in this foxhole alone.
Speaker D:We're there with you, we're praying for you.
Speaker D:We've got your back.
Speaker D:And that's important because we consider ourselves in the right to bear association.
Speaker D:Family.
Speaker D:We are family.
Speaker D:And that's the long term goal.
Speaker D:Like I said, we stop caring.
Speaker D:I get out.
Speaker A:So I know a lot of people hear that insurance or prepaid legal or whatever the kind of terminology is, and they, they kind of get scared because they don't want, you know, a state government or the federal government to require the, the purchase of, of an insurance product for a right.
Speaker A:And so it becomes a philosophical kind of adoption issue for some people, which I think is, is valid.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:With all of the government overreach, anytime the government gets involved in anything, we see how that kind of transpires and we understand that, you know, what starts out maybe as a good intention can very quickly turn into a rogue agency or, you know, a law that goes far beyond what it was supposed to.
Speaker A:So how do you address those concerns with people who are trying to decide if they want to take that step into coverage?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is, you know, call our customer service department, right?
Speaker C:But when it's us and we're having the opportunity to share with somebody and say, you know, we, we have, yeah, we have a contract, right?
Speaker C:You can't just run around and you know, pardon my poor example here, you can't just run around and shoot people and then call the hotline, be like, oh, you know, self defense, right?
Speaker C:There are guidelines on what you, you have to be acting in self defense to qualify for the legal defense portion of our association.
Speaker C:I think the peace of mind that we try to preach is we have attorneys that are already, they're, they're part of our team already, right?
Speaker C:They, they're sitting around not, not literally, but they're more or less sitting around waiting to help you.
Speaker C:And so you have to be acting egregiously out of bounds to not get support from our association.
Speaker C:That's the reason we structured it as associations.
Speaker C:We wanted to offer numerous benefits besides just being a prepaid legal firm or, you know, insurance firm.
Speaker C:And I think the scary thing that people have seen with the insurance contracts in this space has been the number one concern that me and Frank see all the time is there's a clause that actually allows the insurance company to recoup funds if, you know, they're charged or I'm sorry, if they're convicted criminally.
Speaker C:And when they see that, they say, well, why the heck would I, you know, spend money on defense, right.
Speaker C:If you know, or insurance if, you know, if I'm convicted and they just pull back all their funds.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It leaves them with a lot of uncertainty where we don't do that.
Speaker C:That's not who we are, that's not our ethos.
Speaker C:You know, we're going to do our due diligence on the front end to make sure that, you know, we're protecting our member and we're making sure that they were acting in accordance to the law.
Speaker C:And I know there's so much gray area with each one of these self defense cases, but having a group of leaders, having a company and having a group of attorneys that are not going to bend a knee to somebody that doesn't believe what we believe or if somebody that's passionate about not believing what we believe in.
Speaker C:I think it gives a lot of people comfort.
Speaker C:And you know, at the end of the day, you know, we provide a very affordable product for people.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:The barrier to entry is not $400 a year.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's 1:45.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There's a monthly option for $13 a month.
Speaker C:You know, we'll finish up here and grab lunch together and our lunch meal is going to be more than 13 bucks.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so we say, you know, what is your freedom worth to you?
Speaker C:Is it worth, you know, one lunch a month?
Speaker C:And that's been a big reason of our growth.
Speaker C:We've grown faster than we even thought was possible.
Speaker C:And I think there's more people out there.
Speaker C:And I'll tell you this just from being in this market, there's more people out there that are looking for this type of coverage than are, you know, than folks that are skeptical.
Speaker D:And I'll also add that we chose to go the non insurance route because when you do go with the insurance route, you lose a great deal of control in your claims decisions.
Speaker D:We've seen some obvious case precedent around the country.
Speaker D:There are some videos out there right now where some of our competitors have walked away from cases where the insurance company decided we can't defend that.
Speaker D:It's in our bylaws.
Speaker D:You're looking at the bylaws for right to bear.
Speaker D:If there's a gray area, we're going to cover our people and that's the decision we've decided to make.
Speaker D:We want to remain in control of how we protect our people.
Speaker D:I'll give you A perfect example.
Speaker D:We love our heroes in blue.
Speaker D:They are true heroes.
Speaker D:The men and women that serve in police and sheriff's departments around the country are true heroes.
Speaker D:In our book.
Speaker D:We had a young hero up in Michigan that literally had a situation where he was wrongfully charged with police brutality.
Speaker D:His police union and the municipality that offers legal defense walked away from him.
Speaker D:They refused at the time to support him and left him on an island by himself.
Speaker D:Told him to go and hire his own attorney.
Speaker D:Fortunately, he had purchased a right to bear association membership Months before we analyzed the case.
Speaker D:I actually made a phone call personally to his union, to his municipality.
Speaker C:We did, we did together.
Speaker D:We don't understand.
Speaker D:Can you help me understand why you're not supporting your brethren here?
Speaker D:And Bo said, well, there's some skepticism because he may have had a charge previously he was let off on.
Speaker D:I said, well, we're going to make the choice to support him.
Speaker D:Fortunately, we did.
Speaker D:We hired the very best in legal counsel pro second amendment, and he was acquitted months later.
Speaker A:So how does the attorney selection process happen?
Speaker A:I know a lot of people, you know, the biggest criticism that you read in all the online forums is you have to abide by attorney list or you, if you don't feel comfortable with legal counsel, you can't opt in for changes with some companies, walk people through that process with right to bear.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So we have a chief program attorney.
Speaker C:She is the lead dog of our attorney network.
Speaker C:So she is.
Speaker C:Everything funnels through her to us.
Speaker C:And her name is Kristen Keller.
Speaker C:She's out of Golden, Colorado, which is right outside of Denver.
Speaker C:She is awesome.
Speaker C:She bleeds self defense protection.
Speaker C:You know, she, she grew up around firearms and it's been a passion of hers pretty much since she started practicing law.
Speaker C:And so what she has done and with our help and some of our resources that we have is, you know, whether it's previous relationships that one of us have had, you know, through jje, through some relationships there, through, you know, her Rolodex.
Speaker C:You know, we just get on a call with them and we basically interview them and say, hey, do you believe in what we believe in or are you just looking for another revenue source?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so then it's up to me and Frank and Kristen to go through and analyze, hey, are these people going to be there when we need them?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because of the stage of our company and the way that Frank and I have structured it, we want to be involved in as many key decisions like that as possible.
Speaker C:Like Frank said when we were talking about our attorneys we don't have fresh out of grad school or law school kids sitting around the phone waiting for a call one day.
Speaker C:These folks are credible, they've been in the business for years.
Speaker C:And at the end of the day, they believe in what all four of us believe in.
Speaker C:They believe in the second amendment, they believe in everyone's right to own, to own a firearm.
Speaker C:And they also believe in everyone's right to self defense, which is our passion, that's our ethos.
Speaker C:That's why we started right to bear.
Speaker C:You know, if we didn't have a passion about it.
Speaker C:This is not something you roll out of bed and say, I'm gonna start a self defense protection company.
Speaker C:You know, I mean, you have to have a legitimate passion behind, you know, this product.
Speaker C:And I think that's why we've meshed not to change gears, but we've meshed so well with Palmetto State Armory is, you know, if you look at Jamon's ethos and why he started PSA was he wanted to, you know, put a firearm in the hand, in hands of every American at a very affordable rate.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:He wanted to arm America.
Speaker C:Well, we have a very similar ethos, ironically, which is why it's been a perfect fit is, you know, we have a belief in everyone's right to self defense.
Speaker C:You know, I'm a new dad, I just had a baby girl three months ago and I can assure you that if she or my wife or heck, even my two year old corgi were threatened for their life, right?
Speaker C:Like, I'm not thinking like, oh, I might spend the rest of my life in jail if I defend them.
Speaker C:No, like their rear ends getting popped, right.
Speaker C:You know, I'm going to do whatever it takes to defend my family and having legal protection to back me, it, it goes without saying.
Speaker C:So when we structured it, I wanted to make sure that I had the very best for myself selfishly.
Speaker C:And we believe that we've done that.
Speaker C:And I know that in South Carolina we've got one of legitimately one of the best in the country to defend us in our members.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker D:So, you know, it's interesting too that in the vetting process we have over 650 facilities nationally now that recommend and are part of our right to bear family.
Speaker D:And through the vetting process, we reached out to some of our facilities and found some really strong Pro2A shooters who are also great attorneys that we vetted and they decided to join forces with us.
Speaker D:And there's an interesting dynamic happening around the country right now.
Speaker D:Too.
Speaker D:That disturbs me greatly.
Speaker D:And you both are well aware that there are some real radical liberal pockets happening around the nation right now.
Speaker D:For example, Texas, what a great state.
Speaker D:We love Texas.
Speaker D:Our great partners down there.
Speaker D:For the most part, Texas would be considered a conservative Christian state.
Speaker D:And then you've got the beautiful city of Austin that has sort of gone way, way left.
Speaker D:And most of our incidents from a claims view, just all of a sudden happened to happen right in the out of Austin pocket, which is really odd.
Speaker D:Anytime there's a firearm involved, there seems to be somewhat of a radical view of let's charge this person to set an example.
Speaker D:So we sought out the very best in that Austin area to defend our people because it's important that we fight that radicalism around the country.
Speaker D:And you know, not only do we fight it with our words, our family of companies and our venture capital group also spent almost $300,000 last year filing amica sprees around the country on behalf of the 2A amendment.
Speaker D:We're very proud of that folks, because I tell you, we are passionate about the freedom of being able to carry.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, so you brought up Austin and all the charges going through.
Speaker B:A lot of people don't know or may know that, you know, district attorneys are based on their win loss record and they will try to charge you with the silliest of things just to get a win.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, how do you guys combat that?
Speaker B:Like the big thing with self defense situations is you may be written off on, on everything, everything's good to go, but they'll charge you with, you know, discharge of a firearm in city limits or something silly like that.
Speaker C:Yeah, already, we've, already, I mean we've been in business three years and we've seen every example of what you just said.
Speaker C:And I think the best way to combat that is you've got to have legal counsel that gives a damn.
Speaker C:Right, you got to, you have to have guys in gals that believe what we believe in.
Speaker C:And I know, you know, we're sitting around and you know, we want to, you know, say all the right things because, you know, GOA has got a big viewership.
Speaker C:No, we're gonna stand and we're gonna say what we believe and we, we have some dang good attorneys that are gonna fight right when we are right, we're gonna fight.
Speaker C:That's what we, we stand for.
Speaker D:Yeah, John, it's interesting that you made that comment.
Speaker C:And we've had two examples and yeah, Frank's gonna share on one we had.
Speaker D:A situation in North Carolina and again, love North Carolina, love our, love our family members there.
Speaker D:But there are certain sectors in North Carolina that have changed the laws negatively regarding firearms.
Speaker D:We had a member, avid sportsman, avid shooter, actually had a problem with his firearm and had it serviced with a gunsmith, a licensed gunsmith thought that they had solved the problem.
Speaker D:He got the firearm home and was just checking it and actually had a bullet in the clip, went and made sure that it would basically move from the clip into the barrel and then he was going to eject it.
Speaker D:It jammed.
Speaker D:And so in trying to get it unjammed, he put the gun down into a pillow in his home and went to jerk it.
Speaker D:Well, it fell, misfired.
Speaker D:And we all agree in this country that there's not anything accidental about that.
Speaker D:I mean there's a negligent discharge out there.
Speaker D:We understand in most cases it's negligent.
Speaker D:But this was a rare case.
Speaker D:We actually had paperwork where that gun was being serviced.
Speaker D:So he calls the non emergency number in North Carolina.
Speaker D:They immediately show up at his home and the next thing you know they're charging him a 300 and some odd dollar fine for firing a gun in city lim.
Speaker D:Again, he didn't walk outside and put the gun in the air and start shooting.
Speaker D:This was literally a very gray, unique situation.
Speaker D:So I personally called the police chief in the city.
Speaker D:We had a great conversation.
Speaker D:He agreed with me.
Speaker D:He said, but you know, the laws are not on our side.
Speaker D:I wrote a letter and backed them, discussed it with our clients.
Speaker D:We went to court and we were acquitted.
Speaker D:But again, it takes a village because there are so many things out there right now happening.
Speaker D:And you mentioned it.
Speaker D:God bless these DA's man.
Speaker D:They're all God's churn and we need them.
Speaker D:But some of them have gone way too far to the left in the name of radicalism.
Speaker D:And we're passionate about bringing that back, pulling the reins back and saying, hey, there's a constitution out there that we need to support and we need to back those folks like me who loves firearms.
Speaker B:So yeah, couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:So I know that we're spending, getting a lot into the, the nitty gritty of your, of your product and product offering.
Speaker A:And there's a method behind my madness.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like people have a lot of questions and I love arming people with education.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Because I think that if you're educated, you make quality to decisions more often than you don't.
Speaker A:Ignorance is a curable disease.
Speaker A:Stupidity isn't that's just kind of my, my kind of baseline for operation.
Speaker A:And so the, the last question that I have that I know if I was purchasing your product in this moment would be, okay, I get you're going to defend me criminally, but what about civilly?
Speaker C:Yeah, and that's a great question.
Speaker C:We offer both criminal and civil defense.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:One thing that does not make us insurance is the, not to get the legal jargon here, but the indemnification of an insurance policy.
Speaker C:That's what, you know, transitions a contract from, you know, maybe just a legal arrangement between an attorney and their client into the insurance world is if they indemnify.
Speaker C:And so we provide the defense, but not the civil damage.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So if you are charged in a civil matter and you owe some type of a judgment, we'll pay for the defense, just not the judgment.
Speaker C:That's how we're able to not have some of those restrictions in our contract.
Speaker C:And we understand that's a little bit of a shortcoming, but it, we, we surveyed our, our customers for a year and that was one of the last questions that we were asked was the, the damages part, but from a civil part.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Somebody comes into the home, you defend yourself, they say, well, my brother wasn't mentally there.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And you know, the heartache that you've caused me and he was going to be the next President of the United States.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which obviously wasn't true, but people can say whatever they want.
Speaker C:Now, you know, we will defend the civil trial.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But if for some reason, you know, the judge deemed that there was some type of a judgment, that's where we wouldn't, you know, we wouldn't cover that.
Speaker C:And I just want to be honest and upfront so people aren't misled.
Speaker D:And I'll, and I'll tell you, Kaylee, we, we could not find case precedents in a situation where there was true self defense and a civil judgment.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I just think it's, you know, you want all of that information.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you want to, to know that if you're trusting somebody that you can trust them and you're not going to be blindsided by something later on.
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm not going to come on here and be like, yeah, we offer everything and then somebody has a judgment or they have a case and they said, you know, they come back and say, oh, you go a podcast and we're going to be upfront and honest.
Speaker C:But you know, going back to, you know, our hot button that we would sell to anybody is we have great attorneys nationwide that are passionate about defending you and that, that's where we're gonna, we're gonna die on that hill.
Speaker B:So we've seen over the last three, four years millions and millions and millions of new gun owners.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And unlike us in this room, not all of them are in the echo chamber of firearms ownerships and understand all the laws completely.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Because a lot of them are dumb, specifically the NFA regarding SBRs and pistol braces and things like that.
Speaker B:So if, if somebody were to be a new gun owner, sign up with you guys and then accidentally not knowing the law, break the nfa, how do you guys combat that?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I mean it would, first off, it would need to be in a self defense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Situation.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then what, you know, what I would tell you is, and not to get, not to skate the question, but the answer is true, is every case is different, every incident is different.
Speaker C:You know, when it comes to the defense of one's life, we're not going to, we're not going to turn our back to somebody defending themselves or their family or friends.
Speaker C:You know, in, you know, in whatever case that might be, if they're acting in self defense, we're going to be there to provide the legal defense to protect them.
Speaker A:So we're talking about the ability to defend yourself.
Speaker A:It we have to touch on just the massive amount of overreach by the government in off limits places in gun free zones and making it harder for people to even have the opportunity to defend themselves in the first place.
Speaker A:And you know, we spend a lot of time talking about the on ramp to the second amendment.
Speaker A:But once you get on that on ramp and you join the second Amendment community, it's so important that you start advocating because there are way too many places in the US right now where you cannot defend yourself.
Speaker A:You can't defend yourself on many college campuses in the U.S. despite the realities of soft targets are just criminal playgrounds.
Speaker A:And you see that with, you know, rapes that happen on college campuses, you see that with assaults that happen on college campuses, you see that with, God forbid you see it with mass murders that can happen on campus because people aren't granted that fundamental right to protect themselves.
Speaker A:You guys file amicus briefs, you, you work and are passionate about the second amendment.
Speaker A:But I just want to encourage everyone that's listening to the podcast that the best thing that you can do as a gun owner is be active in the fight to ensure that your right to self defense is present and is not taken away by A government that doesn't want you to have it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, I could not have said that better.
Speaker D:Thank you for that passionate plea.
Speaker D:I will tell you that many of these college campuses, and we're both college graduates, we love the college environment, but they've become centers of radicalism.
Speaker D:And it's sad, because here's the just sadness of it all.
Speaker D:90% Of the presidents that run these college campuses have armed security.
Speaker D:Let me repeat that.
Speaker D:90% Of the presidents of these college campuses have armed security.
Speaker D:Why do you think that is, John?
Speaker D:I'm just curious.
Speaker B:Because they.
Speaker B:I have no idea.
Speaker A:It's rules for thee and not for me.
Speaker D:Rules for thee and not for me.
Speaker D:Come on, guys.
Speaker D:That's a fact.
Speaker D:I want to use a perfect example.
Speaker D:You talk about not being able to have a firearm on a college campus.
Speaker D:I want to use Joel Osteen's church in Houston.
Speaker D:Recently, we had a radical shooter come into that church.
Speaker D:They were stopped within two minutes by a blessed, trained church security force.
Speaker D:If there were no guns in that church, how many would have died that day?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:I mean, come on.
Speaker D:How many would have that day?
Speaker D:Potentially hundreds.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, we saw that.
Speaker A:Another example with Stephen Williford, and he works at goa.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker A:He hadn't been able, willing and present with an AR15 to stop that mass murder.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Way more people would have been murdered.
Speaker D:And here's the real sad part.
Speaker D:And I don't want to start to carry urinary.
Speaker D:I know we're headed in a lot of different directions today, and again, we're so thankful to be with you, too.
Speaker D:We're really grateful.
Speaker D:But here's the truth.
Speaker D:Not one gun has ever sat on a counter and fired on its own.
Speaker D:Mental illness is a serious, serious trauma in our country, and it is something that we support behind the scenes because we know it exists.
Speaker D:Our military is going through some serious business right now with ptsd, and of course, that radical government's trying to step in and say, you shouldn't be carrying a gun.
Speaker D:Well, you know what?
Speaker D:God bless our men and women who have gone through serious trauma and are experiencing ptsd.
Speaker D:But I can tell you right now that that's government overreach way, way too far.
Speaker D:Mental illness is what we need to work on in our country because it is serious, serious business.
Speaker D:And quite frankly, it's not taken serious enough.
Speaker B:Well, just an example of college campuses.
Speaker B:So I. I went to school in Ohio.
Speaker B:While I was on campus, I could not carry a firearm.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Against the law.
Speaker B:Once I graduated and was not going to a building on campus.
Speaker B:I could legally carry through campus because it's state owned property.
Speaker B:The ridiculousness of that, that if I was, if I was not on campus going to a campus event, I was legally allowed to be armed.
Speaker B:But the minute I was either a student or going to an event on campus, no more sanity.
Speaker D:And this just goes, this just.
Speaker D:We could go on and on and on for days.
Speaker D:But I'll also go back, you know, God bless our folks in the entertainment business.
Speaker D:Hollywood has become a center for radicalism.
Speaker D:We know that.
Speaker D:And they have a large voice, just like college campuses.
Speaker D:They have great influence on our youth.
Speaker D:But again, 98% of the major entertainers, singers, you know, actors, actresses around the country all have armed security.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Why is that?
Speaker C:Yeah, it's ultimately to protect them.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:And our great citizens in our great country deserve that same kind of protection for themselves.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, what it means to invest in yourself when it comes to investing in that firearm, investing in training, investing in someone to, you know, take on legal fights if you have to use that in firearm and self defense.
Speaker A:But there's a value you're placing on your life when you make those, those purchases.
Speaker A:There's a value in the, in the opportunity cost of your time when you're training.
Speaker A:All of these things matter because when you take that step, when you choose to do that, you're taking personal responsibility for your life, your family's life and what happens to it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And the people around you.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And so one of the things that I find frustrating by the elites in Washington, what I find interesting in the elites on college campuses or the elites in Hollywood is they value their own life, but they don't value yours.
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker A:And it's very important that we understand the philosophical undertones of what's happening.
Speaker A:Because to say that in order to protect the second Amendment, it's only legal or it's only in government that we need to be fighting and, and that we need to be changing the conversation is to neglect the thing that impacts everything else, and that's culture.
Speaker A:I can't tell you how many times you, you go and you talk to somebody in the political space or, or just in general, and they understand that, you know, culture is upstream of politics.
Speaker A:Politics is upstream of the individual.
Speaker A:And we have to work as individuals to, to change culture and to change what's happening in our government if we're going to remain free.
Speaker D:Well, again, so well put.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker D:Let me, let me tell you there's just so little common sense in this matter.
Speaker D:You know, Perry and I were talking on our way over here and just having some great discussions.
Speaker D:We always do.
Speaker D:And I will tell you right now that when it comes to common sense and government, we've thrown everything out of the window and it just doesn't exist anymore in the name of radicalism.
Speaker D:And I believe that.
Speaker D:I'll give you another example.
Speaker D:In our space right now, there are certain states in the country that have gone so far left that they look at our product and call it murder protection.
Speaker D:And think through this with me for a minute.
Speaker D:If you are a part of a municipality or a government and you have someone that's defended by our product versus someone who walks in the door and you have to hire them a public defender and pay for that public defender on tax dollar, wouldn't you want the person who already has the protection?
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker D:I mean, it's common sense.
Speaker D:They're spending not millions, they're spending billions on public defenders a year.
Speaker D:Who's paying for that, guys?
Speaker C:We are.
Speaker D:We are.
Speaker D:So wouldn't you want, even if you are left of center or radical, wouldn't you want someone who walks in the door and has the policy that protects them to get an attorney to represent them versus them having to get a public defender and pay millions?
Speaker A:Well, I think it speaks to a deeper philosophical issue.
Speaker A:If they're calling the product murder insurance when murder is illegal and this is self defense, they don't believe that you have the right to self defense.
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker D:That's it.
Speaker A: ery long ago when the, it was: Speaker A:And the Supreme Court said, no, you absolutely do have the right to self defense.
Speaker A:Thank God it probably took that long because everyone was probably like duh.
Speaker A:But you know, these, these places, these radical pockets in the US are so awful.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because they don't believe in we the people.
Speaker A:They don't believe in your individual freedom.
Speaker A:They really, truly believe that your government grants you rights.
Speaker A:And that's not the truth.
Speaker A:Your rights are constitutionally protected.
Speaker A:They're not government.
Speaker A:Granted.
Speaker C:You nailed it on the head.
Speaker C:And I wanted to talk about this today, and I'm not a constitution expert like a lot of people are, but I do remember learning about it in high school and the 30,000 foot view of the Second Amendment right was to provide the citizens of our country weapons to protect ourselves against government overreach.
Speaker C:That was the Moral of the amendment.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:That was the root of it.
Speaker C:But now we see why that amendment was passed.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:We see why they put that into action.
Speaker C:Because they knew.
Speaker C:Eventually they knew and our founding fathers were just brilliant beyond their own time.
Speaker C:You know, they knew that eventually the government was going to, and individual people were going to try to create power structures for themselves.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which is what we're all talking about.
Speaker C:Everybody's looking out for themselves.
Speaker C:But don't think for one second that those elitists wouldn't do the same to defend themselves or their family.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:They already do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:How many times is Frank said, whether it's, you know, politicians, professors, presidents at universities are going to have, you know, Hollywood entertainers are going to have security, armed security staff, but then we're not allowed, as you know, the average bear to protect ourselves.
Speaker C:So it's a really unique discussion, especially you start talking about common sense.
Speaker C:Well, it's not that, that's not.
Speaker C:Most of those folks, they don't, they don't deal in that world.
Speaker C:It's all emotional.
Speaker C:It's all how can I grab for more power and then push down the, you know, the quote unquote little guy.
Speaker B:Well, just look at, let's just take an example.
Speaker B:We brought up Hollywood and we talking about, you know, things that happened in the lead us.
Speaker B:Look at Alec Baldwin.
Speaker B:He shot and murdered somebody on the set, first off that.
Speaker B:But now they're charging the armor for murder.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:What, he was actually found guilty recently.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So why is Alec Baldwin not in jail?
Speaker B:He committed murder.
Speaker B:He did it.
Speaker B:You know, I, I guess I can say from a thousand foot view, I was just down in old Tucson at the movie studio and I somehow got roped into firing one of the blank guns with them.
Speaker B:And the first rule they told me was, hey, you gotta aim four feet off the person just in case.
Speaker B:Why was Alec Baldwin aiming right at the person?
Speaker B:Why was it fired and killed?
Speaker B:You know, we've seen this in multiple incidents in Hollywood, but why is he not in handcuffs and in jail?
Speaker B:Because, you know, his elitist status, it's just getting pushed to the side.
Speaker B:But Hollywood would love to make money off all the gunplay, but not, you know, they don't want us to have it.
Speaker D:You know, I find that topic really interesting and God bless Alec Baldwin and his family.
Speaker D:But, you know, Alec was probably one of the most radical liberal voices five years ago in the country and that tone has changed drastically now.
Speaker D:The heat has been turned up.
Speaker D:Power and influence, my friend.
Speaker D:Get you a Long way in this country.
Speaker D:And sometimes it's not always justice.
Speaker D:And we both know that.
Speaker D:And it's sad.
Speaker D:That's why.
Speaker D:Another reason why we're so passionate about legal defense for self defense, not just our product.
Speaker D:Go buy one of our competitors products.
Speaker D:Please just have it.
Speaker D:You realize there are probably 100 million people with guns in our country now the government will tell you that, but that's fact.
Speaker D:There are only about a million and a half people covered for legal defense right now in our country.
Speaker D:We have a long way to go to spread our message.
Speaker D:But we're so passionate about it, we want just to have the product go buy from our competitor.
Speaker D:We just want you to have a product right now because we believe in it so much.
Speaker D:But here's the facts.
Speaker D:People like Alec Baldwin can afford to hire the very best, most influential legal counsel out there regardless of whether they're Pro2A or not.
Speaker D:He can afford it.
Speaker D:The average person that we serve with a servant's heart can't.
Speaker D:And that's why they need this product.
Speaker B:Couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:Now a little bit ago you brought up veterans and talking about how they're attacking on it.
Speaker B:I'll let Kaylee kind of dive into what we're doing there to help protect the veterans.
Speaker A:Yeah, so this was a big win for us in the month of March.
Speaker A:And for 20 years this has been a fight which is another thing where people have said no compromise, you don't win ever.
Speaker A:It's like we, we win pretty, pretty regularly.
Speaker A:We know what we're doing.
Speaker A:But it took a 20 year year fight for veterans because of the fiduciary rule which basically was like if a veteran needed assistance they could have their firearms taken away from them because you know, they, they needed help.
Speaker A:Whether it was understanding their benefits and they, they, they can have their, their second amendment right taken away permanently just because the VA said you know, hey, this guy doesn't need it anymore.
Speaker A:And that's an absolutely tyrannical overreach.
Speaker A:And so this last, this last government funding bill, there was a pro gun writer that made, made that entire practice stop.
Speaker A:So now veterans who need help understanding their benefits are not being punished and you know, losing their rights simply for, you know, being a veteran and accessing the things that they served to get.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so that was, you know, a 20 year fight.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Should it have taken 20 years?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:But was it worth fighting?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Kaylee, we live in the land of the free because of the brave.
Speaker D:I'll say that again.
Speaker D:We live in the Land of the free because of the brave.
Speaker D:When we have politicians who work part time and make $200,000 a year and our military is out there struggling to make ends meet, yet putting their lives on the line force, they deserve the utmost in benefits and respect in our nation.
Speaker D:And they certainly have been well trained enough to deserve the right to carry whenever they want to.
Speaker C:Yeah, you look at, you know, the, you know, you've mentioned we've, and we have today, we've mentioned overreach, we've mentioned stupidity.
Speaker C:We've, we've mentioned not, not having common sense.
Speaker C:We've mentioned people just, you know, being spiteful over the second amendment.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You mentioned the district attorneys out there that are just simply trying to get W's right just to throw it on the record board, but they're ruining somebody's life in the process.
Speaker C:You know, the same thing goes for, you know, some of these va, some of these decision makers, right.
Speaker C:You, we have no idea what, you know, where their decisions are coming from to ultimately determine whether this person can or can't defend their family with a weapon.
Speaker C:I mean, it's, it's crazy.
Speaker C:I was actually, this is a pretty interesting topic and discussion.
Speaker C:I was talking with somebody on our team who has a friend that actually had to serve a 15 year sentence over, you know, being, you know, misconnected, I don't know the accurate term, but he was around a murder case and my, the, the individual on our team actually was on the jury for it and that's how he got to end, ended up knowing this guy and they became friends after the fact.
Speaker C:But they were, you know, in their, their break and in their recess and the jury was discussion, you know, discussing what, you know, the case might be and they ended up finding, you know, he was not guilty and they were gonna, you know, release him of all charges.
Speaker C:And one of the people on the jury, now this is us, the normal everyday folk on the jury said, well, what are we going to get him for then?
Speaker C:And everybody looked around at the guy and was like, the hell did you just say?
Speaker C:Like this guy didn't do it, but we're just going to ruin somebody's life for the name of what.
Speaker C:Because you didn't believe that he had that right, but you would.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And so now you look at our veterans and you look at all these different topics.
Speaker C:It's just, it's crazy.
Speaker C:Who, who's ultimately pulling the trigger on these decisions that's going to say, I'm, I don't care about you.
Speaker C:I'm Going to ruin your life.
Speaker C:But I'm fine because, you know, the position I hold or the income that I have or whatever the case might be, and it's just, it goes back to who we, who we are, you know, who goa is, why we're all here today to talk about these matters, because we, we're passionate about.
Speaker C:If we weren't passionate about this industry, we all wouldn't, I mean, we could all be doing something completely different.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Probably making more money.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But I think the, the, the passion and the belief that we have for not only the every everyday American, but our veterans, it goes without saying, I.
Speaker B:Think that you just, you put it right.
Speaker B:And I think the problem is we're not serving the letter of the law, but more serving towards an agenda.
Speaker B:You know, if you're not agreeing with somebody else's agenda.
Speaker B:And that's a big issue that we've seen in this country and I would say probably the last decade where we can't have a discussion anymore.
Speaker B:We can't talk and be civil.
Speaker B:Growing up, you know, we would talk about topics and things like that and you'd have civil conversations and you'd work it through.
Speaker B:And I might not agree with what you say and you may not agree with what I say, but we're going to shake hands and we're going to drink a beer, we're going to do whatever afterwards and we're going to be friends.
Speaker B:And that's no longer the case.
Speaker B:Either you agree with what I say or, or you can go away.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's, that's, I don't.
Speaker B:That's a bigger issue in this country right now is that we can't have those.
Speaker B:We have to serve this agenda.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Depending on what the agenda is, we have to serve that.
Speaker B:We can't be friends.
Speaker B:And I think everybody in this room would say, well, we're the latter.
Speaker B:We can have that conversation.
Speaker B:And I may not agree with you.
Speaker B:And we'll shake hands and we'll go downstairs and grab lunch and grab a beer or drink and hang out and talk.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But on the other side, it's either you agree with me or you go away.
Speaker B:We've seen families break up because of this and we've seen friendships and how do we get back to that point where we can have that civil conversation?
Speaker C:Well, actually, that's a great, great question.
Speaker C:Great topic.
Speaker C:There's a gentleman who I've been listening to recently, and I'm getting Frank on the, the train as well.
Speaker C:His name's Patrick, but David, he Has a podcast and some folks on it.
Speaker C:And he had a live show two weeks ago with Chris Cuomo and Candace Owens.
Speaker C:If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend that you do.
Speaker C:But, you know, obviously Chris Cuomo comes from the left.
Speaker C:He had Candace Owens on the right, you know, and both pretty stern in their thoughts, but creating that open dialogue and at the end of the show to have Candace and Chris, you know, shake hands and say, we agree to disagree, but I don't hate you having more influential people hosting things like that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Maybe one day we'll get somebody who might not be as Pro2A on a discussion with us for, and we'll have maybe one person on that end and one person on this end.
Speaker C:We don't necessarily have to have a debate and jump all, you know, down each other's throats, but to share, you know, the, their opinions and having the open dialogue and then obviously with all the different media outlets, right, whether it be YouTube, Rumble Now, X, you know, formerly Twitter, having, you know, individuals have and, you know, present platforms for people to share their thoughts and have dialogue, it's going to change, you know, and it takes 20 years, right?
Speaker C:Like the, the case that GOA has, has been fighting for, it's going to take, you know, a generation to come up.
Speaker C:So it's not, you know, the, the cable news networks just jamming their agenda down our throat.
Speaker C:I think different avenues, like this is really where you start.
Speaker C:And then it's us being the leaders in our community by having those open discussions.
Speaker C:You might not love guns and you might be left of center, but I can assure you, you believe in the right to protect your family.
Speaker D:You know, too, when you, when you look at those who are unwilling to come to the table and at least have a discussion, in 99.9% of those cases, they have a flaw in their argument.
Speaker D:So therefore, they're unwilling to be exposed.
Speaker D:Would you agree with that?
Speaker B:Oh, I agree.
Speaker D:They're totally unwilling to be exposed.
Speaker D:I want to use an example we talked about coming over here if I can.
Speaker D:Alcohol kills hundreds of thousands of people a year.
Speaker D:Would we all agree with that?
Speaker D:Oh, yeah, hundreds of thousands.
Speaker D:Contrary to that, guns don't.
Speaker D:There are radical pockets right now that say if you've been involved in a gun incident, we want to remove your ability to ever, ever, not just for a short period of time.
Speaker D:But you both know they're trying to pass a law that says you'll never be able to own a firearm.
Speaker D:Well, if you get a dui, should you never be able to own a motor vehicle.
Speaker D:Now you might not think that's a good analogy, but it could be a common sense approach.
Speaker D:But there's so much money in the alcohol lobby for these politicians that they're unwilling to make a common sense approach in that argument.
Speaker D:But yet they hey, we're going to move the Remington plant out of New York state because of their radical laws and move it out of there because we can't put up with their politics anymore.
Speaker D:Am I making any sense in that?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I mean, so to plug one of the other GOA shows for a moment, Tiffany with one in the chamber did a whole breakdown on the difference between GOA and the anti gun lobby.
Speaker A:And what you find is elitism.
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker A:And GOA functions off of membership.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker A:It functions off of everyday people joining and becoming members.
Speaker A:It functions off of everyday members rounding up at their checkout.
Speaker A:It comes from everyday people saying, I'm going to participate in the protection and restoration of my rights and I am going to give to goa.
Speaker A:It is everyday people.
Speaker A:Thankfully we do have some, some higher dollar donors who can, you know, have the means to give.
Speaker A:But on average 20 bucks is, is like the average donation for us.
Speaker A:We function as a member organization.
Speaker A:We are the grassroots gun lobby.
Speaker A:Period.
Speaker A:Full stop.
Speaker A:On the flip side, the George Soros is and the, the elitists that fund the anti gun lobby are all deep pocket billionaires who have an agenda to push and they, they hire young kids to make it look like they're a grassroots lobby.
Speaker A:But that's not where their funding comes.
Speaker A:And so we believe in we the people.
Speaker A:We believe that we have over 2 million members and supporters and that we fundamentally care about the second amendment and not just the protection of the status quo, but the restoration of our right.
Speaker A:And therefore we as a collective group are going to call, we're going to email, we're going to show up at town halls, we're going to participate in lobby days.
Speaker A:We are going to take that personal responsibility for our rights and we are going to make a difference.
Speaker A:That is not how the anti gunners operate.
Speaker A:They operate out of deceit, out of lies and out of an agenda of the elite.
Speaker C:I want to know what the root cause is.
Speaker C:What's the root?
Speaker C:Why are they so anti gun?
Speaker A:Because it threatens power.
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker D:But that's the answer.
Speaker C:But the individuals that are not involved in politics.
Speaker C:So besides them owning a big company and having a billion dollars worth of coin in the bank, what is their agenda?
Speaker C:What's power?
Speaker C:They just want to be in power.
Speaker A:They influence and they purchase politicians, they influence, and they purchase political influence, cultural influence, and they operate from that power base.
Speaker C:Is it just to stamp their name that I did, X, Y and Z.
Speaker A:And if they lose their power, if we have an armed citizenry, if we have the ability to protect ourselves, if we have individual liberty, then we're not controllable.
Speaker A:You know, it kind of goes back to, oh gosh, what was the name of that book?
Speaker A:I'm so awful at book titles.
Speaker A:But I read in some book and it was like, if you are able to grow some of your own food, not even all of it, some of your own food, if you're able to protect yourself and you're able to get married and have children, then you are a threat to elitism is essentially what the argument boiled down to.
Speaker A:Because you value personal responsibility and you take that personal responsibility for yourself and your family.
Speaker A:Therefore you are a threat.
Speaker A:You can't be easily controlled.
Speaker A:And that is contrary to what the people in Washington and the people in state governments.
Speaker A:Not all of them, there are some great ones, but the vast majority of them love that elitism.
Speaker A:They love the fact that they have armed security and that they're protected.
Speaker A:They like the fact that they get to go and walk a red carpet in a gown that costs more than most people's houses in a dress that says tax the rich.
Speaker A:I mean they, they love, they love how great it makes them feel.
Speaker A:And they don't care about you.
Speaker A:They really don't.
Speaker C:Yeah, well said.
Speaker B:So you, you brought up alcohol, right?
Speaker B:So let's, let's just take an example.
Speaker B:So alcohol, we had prohibition, we had about 10 years of prohibition, right?
Speaker B:How did the crime rate happen go up during prohibition?
Speaker B:Now let's, let's take another example.
Speaker B:We had 10 years of the AWB.
Speaker B:Did it translate?
Speaker B:Did we see crime rate go up because they ban certain types of firearms?
Speaker D:No, just the opposite.
Speaker B:We saw the opposite, yes.
Speaker B:And we're still seeing the opposite.
Speaker B:So then why are they going after something that doesn't affect, I mean the amount of insanity during prohibition.
Speaker B:And we saw, we didn't see the same amount of sanity during the awb, but they essentially attempted the same thing and it didn't work.
Speaker A:Well, if you look at constitutional carry states, the crime grows down.
Speaker A:If you look at where the mass murders happen, it's gun free zones.
Speaker A:If you look every time they try to come after the second amendment, every time that they disarm the citizens, because guess what guys, gun owners are law abiding citizens.
Speaker A:We're not Going to break the law.
Speaker A:Do you know who breaks the law?
Speaker A:Criminals.
Speaker A:That is the defining characteristic of a criminal, period.
Speaker B:Well, you bring that up and law abiding citizens owning guns.
Speaker B:So I was just watching a video earlier today and I brought it up in yesterday's podcast as well.
Speaker B:Hartford, Connecticut.
Speaker B:Connecticut, very anti gun, right.
Speaker B:A group of citizens in Hartford, Connecticut are walking around going we are armed and we're cleaning up our streets.
Speaker B:We've had enough and it's working.
Speaker B:Funny, it has stopped.
Speaker B:The crime rate in that area has gone down.
Speaker B:They're cleaning up their neighborhood.
Speaker B:They're taking their neighborhood back from the gangs and it's working.
Speaker B:But the anti gun left wants you to believe that armed citizens cleaning up their area is terrorists.
Speaker B:It's terrorism.
Speaker B:It's bad, it's not going to help.
Speaker B:But we're seeing the exact opposite of what they're saying in constitutional carry states.
Speaker B:We just saw Ohio's numbers come out.
Speaker B:How the crime rate has dropped drastically since they've allowed constitutional carrying.
Speaker B:We've seen the same thing now in Hartford, Connecticut where the crime rate has dropped because these citizens are walking around and talking about doing this on a nightly basis too to help protect their neighborhood.
Speaker B:We're seeing American citizens want to take their neighborhood back and kick out the criminals.
Speaker B:And that's a big thing that we preach is criminals are going to get guns no matter what.
Speaker B:Criminals are going to do criminal things no matter what.
Speaker B:There's not a law on the books that you can change or add that will stop criminals from doing criminal things.
Speaker B:Look at so in Arizona we no longer have self checkout at Walmart because people were stealing stuff.
Speaker B:Look at California, they're closing down stores.
Speaker B:There are Washington, they've closed down Walmarts places for people to shop because they're not charging theft anymore.
Speaker B:It's ridiculous.
Speaker D:It is ridiculous.
Speaker D:And what really scares me and above all is their desire to control the message.
Speaker D:I want to give you a perfect example.
Speaker D:Your great state of Tennessee.
Speaker D:You and I both have a great fondness.
Speaker D:You live there and I'm fond of Nashville.
Speaker D:Spent a lot of time there.
Speaker D:Nashville used to be a bastion for conservatism, Christian conservatism.
Speaker D:Nashville has swung way left.
Speaker D:Now.
Speaker D:We all know what happened in a private school recently in Nashville.
Speaker D:A tragedy, a true tragedy because it went against the left's narrative.
Speaker D:They did everything they could to hide the motive of the young lady who went in and created that tragedy.
Speaker D:Would we agree with that?
Speaker D:They did everything they could to try and control the message because it didn't fit their narrative.
Speaker D:That's what scares me.
Speaker D:Because it's all about.
Speaker D:It's all about their power, their control.
Speaker D:And they've had control over college campuses, Hollywood and the press for the last 30 years.
Speaker D:Total control.
Speaker D:And, yeah, we can thank our conservative, you know, message centers out there.
Speaker D:I'll bring up Fox.
Speaker D:I'm a fan of Fox News, and, you know, I'm not going to hide that Pete Hegseth does some work for us, and we love him greatly.
Speaker D:But I can tell you right now that we need to thank our lucky stars that we have a balance right now in the press, although it's still small, because there is still a loud voice on the left that controls the narrative.
Speaker D:And that scares me because people.
Speaker D:People are influenced and it's scary.
Speaker D:They need to know the truth.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It goes back to what I said about the show I watched on the PBD podcast.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And what we're doing today is now, you know, thank people like Elon Musk to open up Twitter and provide other avenues of independent news sources and media and outlets for people to voice their opinion.
Speaker C:There will be people that watch this video in this discussion that are just pissed at the edge of their seat and disagree with everything that we've said from start to finish.
Speaker C:But previously, everything was just through one of the five major networks.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Well, now we have the opportunity to spread that message, and it's.
Speaker C:It's slowly coming back.
Speaker C:But, yeah, the in.
Speaker C:As more media outlets and more podcasts and information centers come out, the media that has been trying to control the narrative is slowly dying.
Speaker C:And I think that we're five to 10 years away from the big national media.
Speaker C:Just really.
Speaker C:I mean, really just being something that's on a TV channel but doesn't have the influence that.
Speaker C:That we maybe think that.
Speaker C:That they had.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The scariest thing I've ever seen, and I don't know if you've seen this video, is where they take the compilation.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, all the news broadcasts, and they're all saying the same thing,.
Speaker D:The exact same, exacting that message.
Speaker D:Who's leading that?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And there's 10 people that are.
Speaker C:They're playing the.
Speaker C:They're at the top.
Speaker C:They're in a dark room somewhere.
Speaker C:They got like, the scary music.
Speaker C:They've sold their souls off, and they're just playing puppetry.
Speaker C:I got a few names, but I'm going to hold on for now.
Speaker D:We can use example after example after example, though, of the media trying to control the narrative and I always go back to, even most recently, I am a Christian conservative.
Speaker D:I love people, red and yellow, black and white.
Speaker D:They are precious in his sight.
Speaker D:That's my view.
Speaker D:But let's look at those in radical sectors of the world that constantly use race because that's the only wedge they have right now.
Speaker D:And to me, that continues to be scary because I don't believe that America is a racist nation.
Speaker D:I don't.
Speaker D:I will not believe that.
Speaker D:Now, do I believe we had a serious issue with slavery?
Speaker D:And yes, do I believe we had a serious historical issue?
Speaker D:I believe we're beyond that now.
Speaker D:And I believe that there are just, there's great kindness in the world, but there is that pocket right now.
Speaker D:And we don't know where it comes from.
Speaker D:And it scares me.
Speaker C:Look where we've come, though.
Speaker C:Oh gosh, look at where we've come in that.
Speaker C:Like it's.
Speaker C:Nobody, nobody said that country was perfect.
Speaker C:Nobody said that anybody was perfect.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:You want to talk about progressive, right?
Speaker C:Look at the progress we've made there.
Speaker C:I mean, it's, it's unbelievable.
Speaker D:You just got to get back to common sense, though.
Speaker C:The fact that we just get that message jammed down our throat.
Speaker C:And I think that the more that you all do at goa, heck, the more that we do.
Speaker C:We need to start a show, man.
Speaker C:Yeah, get on there and talk.
Speaker D:No, Kaylee and John do such a good job.
Speaker D:We must be guests on their show.
Speaker B:Well, you bring that up.
Speaker B:We, we just did our women's event down in Dallas.
Speaker B:The diversity.
Speaker B:We had women from all race, creeds there, all to support the second Amendment.
Speaker B:Many of them first time shooters, many of them who have never touched a gun before.
Speaker B:And it was fantastic to see just the vendors talking to them.
Speaker B:And I had a long conversation with our friends over at Global Ordinance afterwards and she said that's the most fun I've had at an event.
Speaker B:Because it's not.
Speaker B:I mean, we've all been to range days.
Speaker B:You go up to the line, you get the spiel from the person, hey, this is our latest and greatest thing.
Speaker B:And you get to shoot it.
Speaker B:And she's like, it wasn't that I was there teaching, I was going out.
Speaker B:I felt this sense of purpose that I was able to be able to have people shoot their first arm or their first.
Speaker B:For her first PCC or shooting their first handgun or trying out this or trying out that.
Speaker B:And just the emotional, the emotions she felt afterwards, it just brought great joy to her.
Speaker B:And we're seeing that, that this is the narrative that we are all old white men is no longer.
Speaker B:The millions of new gun owners, the millions of new women joining the Second Amendment, the millions of new African American gun owners are growing.
Speaker B:I mean, the Second Amendment is not just about, you know, the narrative that they're pushing about who we are.
Speaker B:We are a very diverse group of people.
Speaker D:Well, and that diversity from the left view scares them so badly that they feel like their power is etching away.
Speaker D:And so they've increased the narrative, they've increased their pressure.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:The Second Amendment is for everyone.
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker A:And it is an individual liberty.
Speaker A:And it is our joy to be able to put on events and to be able to talk to the community at large and see where people are in their journey from.
Speaker A:I have the Second Amendment and I'm choosing not to exercise it.
Speaker A:Right now I'm in that education process to I just purchased my first firearm to I own several to I'm not going to tell you how many I own to I'm a collector to.
Speaker A:You know, there's a journey there and it's, it's a fun journey to get to see from our side, from people joining the Second Amendment community.
Speaker A:But the even better journey in my, from, from our perspective is when someone attends their first lobby day or when someone comes to us and they testified for the first time on a bill.
Speaker A:And you see the adrenaline and the rush and the excitement of I made a difference for myself today, for my grandkids, for my great grandkids.
Speaker A:And it's really, it's really humbling to see.
Speaker A:It's exciting.
Speaker A:I'm going to be going to Tennessee's lobby day in my home state in just a couple of weeks.
Speaker A:And I'm excited because every year there's one or two people that it's their first time coming and it's been growing.
Speaker A:We've been doing it, gosh, like five years now in Tennessee.
Speaker A:And it's my favorite, one of my favorite events, we do all year in conjunction with the Tennessee Firearms association.
Speaker A:And it's the excitement in the room.
Speaker C:Well, you talk about Christmas Day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Better than Christmas Day.
Speaker B:You talk about investing in yourself for self defense.
Speaker B:You're investing in your life.
Speaker B:And since we have right to bear here and you guys, your parent company is, and you work with PSA very closely.
Speaker B:We're also seeing the barrier with Jamin wanting a gun in everybody's hand.
Speaker B:We're seeing the barrier to entry drop.
Speaker B:And PSA has done a great job by getting their dagger price so low so that the barrier to Entry is so low and easy to get back in and that, that we need to say and we're seeing that trend across the board with a lot of companies that the barrier to entry to get in is so low and they're making very affordable and reliable guns.
Speaker A:And the ability to train.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:At home at your convenience with things like Mantis and others.
Speaker A:That's a huge thing in my book.
Speaker A:Shocker, guys.
Speaker A:I work for a non profit.
Speaker A:I don't have endless supplies of money.
Speaker A:I can't afford to go and spend a lot of money on ammo and go to the range as often as I want.
Speaker A:If I wanted to, I'd be at the range every day.
Speaker A:If I had unlimited funds and unlimited time, that would be where I spend my time.
Speaker A:And I love that people are also coming out with ways where, you know, for a couple hundred bucks you can save a few thousand dollars and train so that when you go to the range and you get to spend all of that, your time and you get to, to spend your, your, your time in that aromatherapy kind of sense, you're able to, to feel so accomplished and you empowered when you're in that self defense situation.
Speaker A:Because that on ramp is the most important thing we can build for someone.
Speaker A:Whether that's training, whether that is purchasing a firearm, whether that is understanding the responsibility of carrying that firearm.
Speaker A:I always go to that on ramp.
Speaker A:The on ramp is the most important thing we build.
Speaker C:I love what you said earlier.
Speaker C:You talk about the journey that everybody goes on.
Speaker C:That just resonated with me so well.
Speaker C:And then the phrase, the on ramp, right?
Speaker C:You go from, you know, the, the training that you put yourself through, whether it be at the range or you don't have the funds or the time or whatever, but you can now train at your home with all the different simulators and all the different technology that's out there.
Speaker C:Then you, you, you train.
Speaker C:Then you spend time because you're getting better.
Speaker C:You, you, you want to learn more, right?
Speaker C:Then you start reading.
Speaker C:Okay, well maybe I'm, maybe I might carry, right?
Speaker C:I'm, I'm gonna go get my, my, you know, if, if you're in a permit state, I'm gonna go get my permit or I'm, or maybe you're in a constitutional state, but you want to carry in your car.
Speaker C:So I'm gonna go and I'm gonna train and I'm gonna educate myself and then next thing you know, you're, you're looking into all of the different state laws and then you're Buying new guns and you're going to the range and you're just lighting it up, right?
Speaker C:And you're like, man, I've really come a long way.
Speaker C:I used to spray it all over the.
Speaker C:The board, but now I'm hitting the bullseye 10 out of 10 times, right?
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:I don't think you could have said it any better.
Speaker C:That really is a.
Speaker C:It's an exhilarating feeling, especially when you look back over when you started and you have that.
Speaker C:That journey.
Speaker C:And that's one of the things that we take pride in at Right to bear is the training that we want all of our members to take upon themselves.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:We, our.
Speaker C:Our, you know, mission and ethos with our facility and range partners is we offer an affordable product for people to.
Speaker C:To acquire right.
Speaker C:To have protection for themselves.
Speaker C:And then we promote our range partners.
Speaker C:Hey, go get training.
Speaker C:Go join.
Speaker C:Become a member of, you know, Champion Defense and In West Columbia, S.C. go, go, go to, you know, go join Triangle Shooting Academy in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Speaker C:Go and practice.
Speaker C:So when that situation comes up, you're prepared for it, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I want to touch on.
Speaker A:On something that you brought up that I love, and that's the consistency in which you train your mindset, the consistency in which you train with your firearms, the consistency in which you train in your advocacy.
Speaker A:If you constantly.
Speaker A:It's not a barrier.
Speaker A:It's an exciting thing.
Speaker A:I think once you get into it where you can't wait and it's easy to have that moment of this is something that I want to do.
Speaker A:And it's a lifelong journey that you get to be consistent in.
Speaker A:It's a blessing to live in a country in which we can be consistently voicing our opinions.
Speaker A:It is a blessing that we live in a country where we can consistently make a difference in the protection of our rights.
Speaker A:It is a blessing that we can be consistent with the training of our firearms and with the education of our firearms and our rights.
Speaker A:And I love the fact that when it comes down to it, consistency is just another way of saying personal responsibility and that we as the individuals have that ability.
Speaker D:You know, I.
Speaker D:We're consistent.
Speaker D:We'll always be consistent in our message.
Speaker D:We're Pro2A to the core.
Speaker D:You know, one of the consistencies we have at our Mothership Palmetto State Armory is that we enable our purchasers in our retail stores every day to round up in support of goa.
Speaker D:And we're very proud of that.
Speaker D:We want that message to transcend that.
Speaker D:We back Gun Owners of America and we back the organization, its mission, the pride that goes with that and we're very proud of that.
Speaker D:And thank you both for what you're doing every day to get out there and spread that message that we need.
Speaker D:The constitution is very clear and we need more passionate foot soldiers like you two in your organization to get out there and proclaim that that constitutional message.
Speaker A:Well, thank you for that.
Speaker A:Well, they are telling me out there to wrap up so thank you all for for joining us today.
Speaker A:Where can people find you?
Speaker A:Where are you on social media?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, so visit our website.
Speaker C:It's protectwithbear.com you know the right to bear association Google search will work and we're on all the social media platforms whether it be x Instagram, YouTube.
Speaker C:We just started a YouTube page.
Speaker C:We started a TikTok page.
Speaker C:Next thing you know now that might get banned.
Speaker C:We'll save that for our next discussion because I'm sure they'll have some changes there.
Speaker C:But yeah, the on on Instagram or Facebook is you know the at Right to bear association.
Speaker C:If you search right to bear on Facebook will come right up.
Speaker C:Yeah, we have a full, you know breadth of not only what we offer the cost but you know some great information talking about how response times are down and never before regardless of your state law, never before have you needed self defense protection.
Speaker C:And going back to our mission, you know the rate at which we offer it is very affordable that everyone can can afford this protection.
Speaker C:They need it because you just never know when that situation might be you and we're here to have your back and we believe in that.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Well guys thanks for watching and thank you guys for being here.
Speaker C:No, thank you.
Speaker B:Make sure to like share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification on YouTube.
Speaker B:Leave a five star review on all podcasting hosts and as always have a great rest of your day.
