The Movie Wars crew was exhilarated to tackle two buddy cop classics in 1989's Lethal Weapon 2 and 1995's Bad Boys. Similar to Westerns, the Buddy Cop genre has been transformed and retooled, all while paying homage to a timeless formula. The chemistry between the lead actors drives both of these films. LW2 reveals that Riggs and Murtaugh are more like family than when they were introduced in the franchise's first entry, where they were beleaguered and struggled to reconcile their opposing policing methods. Bad Boys hinges more on Mike and Marcus' friction and bickering, leading to the ultimate payoff when their highly effective partnership is put on full display. Both films are anchored by comedic third wheels played by a pair of legendary Joes(Pesci and Pantoliano). How will the war score fair for these two genre titans? Give it a listen because you're never too old for this Movie Wars sh*t. 

Film Summaries

Lethal Weapon 2

South African smugglers find themselves being hounded and harassed by Riggs and Murtaugh, two mismatched Los Angeles police officers. However, the South Africans are protected by diplomatic immunity, and so the two are assigned to witness-protection duty in an attempt by their captain to keep his job. It is only when this witness reveals to them that he has already dealt with the smugglers that the trouble really starts.

• Rating: R
• Genre: Action, Mystery & thriller
• Original Language: English
• Director: Richard Donner
• Producer: Richard Donner, Joel Silver
• Writer: Jeffrey Boam
• Release Date (Theaters): Jul 7, 1989  Original
• Release Date (Streaming): Aug 15, 2008
• Box Office (Gross USA): $144.9M
• Runtime: 1h 53m
• Distributor: Warner Bros. Pictures
• Production Co: Warner Bros., Silver Pictures

Bad Boys

Miami-Dade detectives Mike Lowrey (Will Smith) and Marcus Burnett (Martin Lawrence) blow a fuse when $100 million worth of heroin they recently confiscated is heisted from station headquarters. Suspecting it was an inside job, Internal Affairs gives them five days to track down the drugs before they shut down the narcotics division. Action meets farce when Marcus is compelled to masquerade as his partner in order to gain the trust of a call girl (Tea Leoni), a key witness in their investigation.

• Rating: R
• Genre: Action, Comedy
• Original Language: English
• Director: Michael Bay
• Producer: Don Simpson, Jerry Bruckheimer
• Writer: George Gallo, Michael Barrie, Jim Mulholland, Doug Richardson
• Release Date (Theaters): Apr 7, 1995  Original
• Release Date (Streaming): Dec 15, 2010
• Box Office (Gross USA): $63.9M
• Runtime: 1h 58m
• Distributor: Columbia Pictures
• Production Co: Don Simpson/Jerry Bruckheimer Films

Film summaries courtesy of Rotten Tomatoes.

[00:00:04] 0045 Lethal Weapon 2 vs. Bad Boys This is some bad S**t Listen through and don't quit Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Outdoor version of the Movie Wars Podcast Episode 0045 Well, if it isn't Miss Sigmund Frod, this is Kyle. Mike, put it back in,

[00:00:23] you took it out

[00:00:28] This is true. Yes, it's

[00:00:45] Stop, he went through, he went on a tear, and then he went

[00:01:05] I love that. Anyway, great job. Mark

[00:01:11] Well, what happened with the other guys was funny. You guys remember Due Date? Not a Cotton movie, but a similar genre film. That's, uh, Robert

[00:01:20] That's a good movie. Not a Cotton movie, but just that Buddy, like, comedy.

[00:01:24] Really funny. It makes sense that you would love it because, you know, the Buddy Cop, I was researching this because I was just like, I kept thinking, like, is that the origin of the Buddy Cop film? Is that the origin? And the truth is, is that, you know, really what film scholars think, the first actual Buddy Cop movie was Stray Dog, a Japanese film in 1949, and that kind of set the tone.

[00:01:57] Enforcer, even, the third, one of the Dirty Harry films [00:02:00] even dabbled in buddy cop stuff. The first one isn't a buddy cop film, but eventually they get to the Enforcer, and he has a buddy, a rookie cop. So you're starting to see the little tendrils of the buddy cop themes and the tropes develop. And then, of course, you get 48 Hours.

[00:02:35] You have the one rugged, kind of out of his mind, individualistic, not necessarily. It's not necessarily a clean guy, the other one's a family man, wears the suit, looking clean, and that kind of became the, the yin and the yang of the buddy cop trope. Salt and pepper, yep. And it's, it's really, it's really wonderful, but you know what's funny, I couldn't help but thinking, I had to bring a question.

[00:03:01] Yeah, so I'm probably the straight man. I'm the Danny Glover type. You're probably the zany one, and, and Phil is probably more like the Joe Pesci, like the third.

[00:03:15] Last night, and you're like I don't want to hear that S**t, Phil.

[00:03:21] thru. Pesci. Oh, my third favorite actor of all

[00:03:27] The Denver bronchiole. I know. Too bad it wasn't a joke. Bronchiole County, let's ride.

[00:03:37] when you go to the bad boys, when you go to bad boys, Michael Bay, it's his directorial debut. It's kind of crazy that bad boys was his first film. And we're seeing those early tones, the explosions, the giant set pieces.

[00:03:51] And it's true with Bad Boys. This movie did not look almost 30 years old. There's a tone to movies from that time period. And, and like, I feel like [00:04:00] in 2002 ish or three ish, there was like a shift in the look of films. Like you can see like this graininess in movies up until that point. And then after that, everything's got this like kind of otherworldly clarity to it.

[00:04:13] his first real at bat. Right. And what's interesting is when you said that I thought about that last scene, it's in like a hangar or something. Forgive me if I'm stepping on randos, but he only got paid a hundred grand to produce this or to direct this Michael Bailey because this was his first dude.

[00:04:58] Nobody [00:05:00] wants you to take the keys again. So that's, it made me respect Michael Bay. Researching that made me respect him so much more. Cause he gets a lot of, he's kind of like the Nickelback of movie directors. Like he gets a lot of S**t, but the fact that he, he bet on himself. And I thought that was really cool.

[00:05:22] really sick story. That's awesome. It's amazing. Michael Bay. I feel like it's a lot of undo S**t for his films. Like he has definitely made some bad films.

[00:05:37] the rock which was

[00:05:49] Maybe the rock would yeah I think the rock could but he he has a very distinct style. Michael Bay assumes that you're along for the ride from the beginning. There's very little handholding. [00:06:00] There's very little explaining. He dives right into the relationships with people. You're kind of just in it from the beginning.

[00:06:22] He does the big dumb action thing bigger and better and dumber than most, but good God, is it fun? Well,

[00:06:40] to make because he's a the island.

[00:06:43] mean, listen to this skid between 95 and 2001. All these films are with Jerry Bruckheimer. Bad Boys, the Rock, Armageddon, Pearl Harbor, and then in 03 is when he makes Bad Boys 2, but him and Bruckheimer teamed up and when they teamed up during those movies, the.

[00:06:58] What's the other guy, Don, [00:07:00] um, his co producer in a lot of

[00:07:12] Bruckheimer.

[00:07:19] funny story. Did I have a heart attack? Is that what

[00:07:25] Phil? Man, I think I kind of gave my impression on Bad Boys already.

[00:07:42] The one thing I love about Michael Michael Bay films is just the act of watching them, like, looking at them. They're a joy to look at, and this was no exception. Like, it looked like millions of dollars, and it felt that way, it felt and looked expensive, and I love that in a in a film.

[00:08:01] Yeah.

[00:08:03] that it was technically 19, but apparently I did some research on this. There was like, this script bounced around Hollywood, like, for several years, and so like, one studio sold it to the studio that made it for, like, 3 million, and then there was some other expenses, but by the time it got down to just making the movie itself It was only nine million bucks, which is crazy.

[00:08:26] than that. Yeah. And to quote one of my favorite franchises of all time, you know, it's not the car. It's the driver. Like it just goes to show that any, any usable budget in the right hands is going to look incredible. And you see that.

[00:09:23] Like, because, you know, hatred and, and love are like, they ride a fine line. And, and in the first movie, Danny Glover couldn't be rid of this guy faster. And by the second movie, they're basically family. It's, it's just so cool to see that dynamic. These were such great movies. Yeah,

[00:09:38] Just like Phil said, I Cause we had kicked around matching up Lethal Weapon with Bad Boys. And I loved Lethal Weapon. I thought it was so much fun, right? I don't know, you believe Danny Glover and Mel Gibson. Like, you just believe, you buy that whole thing. Like, whatever sparks that are sizzling off the screen in every scene they're in, just works.

[00:10:12] It's a very similar movie. Because it's you know, Bad Boys These partners have been together for years, right? So they're like they're friends and that you know, they've worked together for a while. In Lethal Weapon, they're like it's It's the classic buddy cop dynamic where they're thrown together, but in lethal weapon two, they had been together for several years and there was some family, you

[00:10:33] and meals, the basically Danny Glover's family basically adopted, you know, Gibson and I just thought it was such a better matchup.

[00:10:57] The crime of choice. Um, obviously [00:11:00] both movies are attempting to balance like action and comedy and you know, one better than the other. I'll just, we'll get to that. Agreed. I just thought they were just a great time. Both of them have their flaws. Let's not get carried away. And like. They're not fantastic movies from a cinema perspective.

[00:11:28] Well, I got stoked at how stoked you got when you told me you were going on a tear through all those movies.

[00:11:33] it when you do that. I watched both Beverly Cott movies. I was just like

[00:11:48] I mean, you can say whatever you want. We all know about his personal life and his accolades. You're not allowed to like him, his craziness outside of it. But you know, I'm a big Mad Max. fan and what I thought like I love all the Mad Max films and what made [00:12:00] me laugh is like I think he's more mad in Lethal Weapon than he is in Mad Max.

[00:12:05] the scene with him getting out of the straitjacket, like that was some serious crazy people S**t.

[00:12:11] part so well, I dislocated my shoulder once and now I can do it whenever I want. Yeah. And he just pops that thing out of the socket. Anyway. And part of

[00:12:24] And I think on the screen, he's, he easily is just like, wow, that guy's kind of off his rocker a little

[00:12:40] stuff on him that was not flattering and it went out and what happened happened. So yeah, we acknowledge all that, but I think it's okay to kind of like disconnect from all of that and go back to the eighties and enjoy something great that he made. Well, I

[00:13:00] Yes, the man is an undeniable. Scumbag like yes, he did really really f**** up stuff. You can't really rewrite history as it pertains to what they have done That's really great And just as Harvey Weinstein's responsible for like some of the most iconic films ever made especially over the last like 30 Plus years.

[00:13:31] And then he started directing.

[00:13:36] He's not going to be in any of those movies, I don't think, anymore. Then he

[00:13:41] Sunrise. He had a lot of what I'm sure are regrettable moments where he'd said and did some terrible S**t, but he also made a lot of really great films. Yeah. Those two things can

[00:13:52] So I realized that I just like Mel Gibson. I just, I liked it. He's kind of naturally a little bit off his rocker. And I was thinking the entire time I would [00:14:00] love to hear you guys response to this, watching lethal weapon and leave the weapon too. I was like, I feel like Danny Glover is who I'm going to be when I get old, especially the scene where they're watching the condom commercial and he doesn't know his daughter.

[00:14:24] Trish human development.

[00:14:43] I'm a, such a

[00:14:45] been in the whims whenever, you know, Mel Gibson gets kind of uncanceled. Cause it always happens. Isn't Danny Glover

[00:14:52] No, that's the thing. He was so young. He was only like 40 when he did Lethal Weapon. So he's like, yeah, I mean, he's older. He's probably what late sixties, [00:15:00]

[00:15:00] When I interviewed Mick Rogers. Uh, Mel Gibson's stuntman, he told me he was gearing up to do five. But then it got put in development hell, and then Mel Gibson had something to say that? Yeah, he did. I mean, it's on the He That's all he could tell me. I asked him more questions, I can't tell you anything else.

[00:15:12] was like, okay. Yeah, that's fair. Well, it's on IMDB in production. It's been, like, it Okay. Rumors are flying around on

[00:15:27] Amazing. Leave the Weapon 2. And then he's in one of the greatest films ever made, Goodfellas. And he's just, he just captivates all every movie he's in. He just captivates

[00:15:46] He's so freaking funny. He really is. One of my favorite scenes of any movie of all time is when we talked about this in the My Cousin Vinny pod. But like, when he came out in his underwear screaming about something. Like he's just so

[00:16:04] Exceptionally well, yeah, I don't think he gets a lot of credit for that. But I mean you really see that in home alone He's one of those guys. He does it so well You don't think about the fact that he's doing it. Well, cuz it looks so damn good dude Home alone is all physical comedy. Yeah, when it when someone makes it look that easy

[00:16:29] Sorry, we totally hijacked your impressions. No, I love it. I love it. I'm just trying to remind the listener where we're at, but no, I love it. Yeah, impression these nuts, b***h.

[00:16:36] impress the mean nuts. It's really interesting to me, and Drew, you, you overnight became the Lethal Weapon X. What did you think about this?

[00:17:00] Oh yeah,

[00:17:06] that lack of hand holding. I love the fact that they assume you've seen Lethal Weapon 1 and they assume that you can make the jump, but it's two years later and their bond is strong.

[00:17:19] the last movie. Love. Yes. I loved it. And that first scene's hilarious when, uh, Glover is screaming at people. I love it when he is just yelling and they're, they're both yelling at all. The cops at that, at the very beginning, after that chase and they crash and he's like, they're like both yelling across each other and all the other cops, da, da, da.

[00:17:39] bang. So what was the que, you said you're curious to get my

[00:17:52] They hate each other. They don't get along. I don't, you know, I work alone, that whole thing. But then, and two, they're, they're family and I love that.

[00:18:05] Yeah,

[00:18:08] or something like that. Yeah, he kept saying, I'm close to retirement. And in the first movie he said, I'm old, I'm too old for this S**t. Yeah. Is what he kept saying. But in the second movie, he says, I'm getting too old for this S**t. So it's like, he gave up on the idea of retiring, and now he's like, He's still in that place, but he doesn't want to leave because he loves his

[00:18:24] You know, in Bad Boys, I always thought Bad Boys was interesting. I liked it every time I've seen it. I've actually seen it a lot. What I love about it is Martin Lawrence was considered one of the greatest comedians of all time. When he was doing his full on thing, I think he was like on Def Jam. You hear stories like Joe Rogan talks about it.

[00:18:53] 'cause there's no way, like it's just he, it's impossible to fall. And I really. would have told me that he [00:19:00] was going to star in a lot of films like Blue Streak and, and Bad Boys, like, well, I don't know how his comedy would translate. I think it's so great. In fact, so good. I think he dwarves Will Smith and Bad Boys like, cause they're, they both were comedic, you know, cause Fresh Prince, Mel, you know, Michael Bay, he liked Fresh Prince and that's how he ended up getting to Will Smith.

[00:19:17] a game changer for his career. You

[00:19:36] I mean, he's not the lead, because to your point, Martin Lawrence was Like he was billed above Will Smith, which is crazy because Will Smith came out and did Independence Day and Men in Black and Wild West and it was game over. Will Smith became the biggest actor in Hollywood, but at the time, Martin Lawrence was like the guy.

[00:19:52] if you put yourself in the shoes of a viewer in 95, when this came out, it's like Will Smith was known for being funny on Fresh Prince. I [00:20:00] mean, there are emotional moments, but they're very low key. People were kind of like. Why is he being so straight? Like, why is he not funny? You know, and everybody knew Martin Lawrence was funny, but I think a lot of people expected Smith to be funny, but he played it straight the whole time.

[00:20:23] now. Yeah, but it was huge for his career because people, it shifted him from like, he's the goofy, funny rapper teenage kid to, Oh, this guy's kind of like sexy.

[00:20:35] rich, like it was a total like new facet of what he's capable of that he had never done before. And that I think that's, it was those two things put together that catapulted him into where he's at. And once

[00:20:50] But the man knows. Was he

[00:20:54] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I would imagine. He handpicked Will Smith. Jeez, dude. Yeah, and there's a lot of casting stuff. I [00:21:00] have some randos on. But yeah, at the day, I love this genre, and it kind of made me, like, want to get into Buddy Cops. It's just I just realized that it's one of my favorite formulas.

[00:21:37] Thank you, Becky, for following us. And her response was just LW2. I love it. No, no descriptions. Like, Hey, Lethal Weapon 2 is the winner. I love that. I dig that. Once again, Minord, our friend who loves

[00:21:52] said, I can't look at Will Smith.

[00:22:04] a tendril we kind of missed Kind of like two embattled actors now In these movies We got Will Smith who, you know, had his moment there At the Oscars or whatever the hell that was Two

[00:22:16] artists And then, you know, we all know about Mel Gibson So

[00:22:26] Uh, I did take it personally when Will Smith assaulted him, so I agree. I don't know who this person is. You assault one of us, you assault all of us. Let me get their name real quick, who is this person? And then Chase said, This one's tough, but the winner for me is Lethal Weapon 2. There you go. Randos, we got lethal, we got some lethal Randos here.

[00:22:57] I screwed up and I blew it. My writing sucks. Is what Black [00:23:00] said when his friend told him he didn't like it. Woe is me, Shane. Yeah, seriously, Shane. Go make another movie. Because

[00:23:12] This script was called something entirely different. You're thinking of Bad Boys? No, it's not Bad Boys, it's Lethal Weapon. It was called something totally different. Shane Black, he was so discouraged by how a lot of the key points in the script are taken by the studio that he just kind of gave up. For a while.

[00:23:26] later Black reread the old script and he actually went back on it. He said, there's no question the draft of Lethal Weapon two that I wrote, death ethanol is my best work. So he actually later revisited it and he actually thought it was still the best one, even after the movie

[00:23:39] smash hit.

[00:23:55] I thought she was great. She made me want to go out and buy rubbers right now. In the rehearsal, when they were [00:24:00] rehearsing, Glover didn't know he was going to say that, and he actually spit sandwich out of his mouth during the rehearsal when he said that, because he wasn't expecting it. That's amazing.

[00:24:17] have daughters. I put myself in that same spot. I was like, Oh my word. Now

[00:24:25] feeling distressed. I just want to say Trish, your, your

[00:24:32] right? Lethal weapon too, baby. Speaking of condoms, the product placement deal, the makers, uh, Ramsey's condom paid 10, 000 to showcase the product.

[00:24:40] It's called Ramsey's and it's spelled,

[00:24:46] Egyptian, like it's an amazing play on words. Are you kidding me? Like Ramsey's

[00:24:52] company. That scene in the living room when they're watching that Pretty amazing. And then all the S**t that they gave him at the department the next day with the bouquet full [00:25:00] of condoms and stuff.

[00:25:06] cops are. That tree of condoms was hilarious. That scene

[00:25:16] In that moment, you believe just the S**t that cops give each other. And he's annoyed and he's frustrated, obviously, because his daughter is going through a thing and he's dealing with something, but also like he loves his boys and he appreciates the camaraderie. Yeah.

[00:25:31] Bad.

[00:25:37] Schrader, bro. Breaking, or uh, Breaking Bad randos were doing bad boys now. So, you had hinted at this earlier. Originally, this is crazy. The original script was called Bulletproof Heart, and it was intended for Dana Carvey and John Lovitz from SNL.

[00:25:52] Heart.

[00:26:12] And then this is the Don Simpson. So Don Simpson was a co writer for the script basically. And he. partner to write the script for Bulletproof Hearts, and he was in an insane coke head. And Dana Carvey and John Lovitz were still heavily considering being in the movie, but Simpson took him out for a crazy party in Las Vegas, and no one really knows the details, but apparently it was enough.

[00:26:49] point.

[00:26:52] have been this movie. Yeah, and eventually, you know, this script, and it's hard to remember all the details, this script went through a lot. When they started [00:27:00] to film the movie, they said, still had that script and everyone hated it. Michael Bay even has come out and said that it was a horrible script.

[00:27:22] And even after they got that newly revised script, after dropping 25 K, they were still just like basically Bay Lawrence. And Smith would meet every day before filming and he would just tell them, I need you guys to improvise. Like, this script is awful. Even after the rewrite. Nobody loved the script.

[00:27:40] did feel a little scattered at times. It was, yeah. A little incoherent here and there. It didn't have a strong sense of direction and not in like a film direction like just in from the script standpoint It didn't like know exactly what kind of movie it was.

[00:27:56] Okay, so I love Tia Leone. Tia Leone. I don't know how you say her name. [00:28:00] I'm a big fan of hers I loved her in Family Man couple other things, but she, she was great. I think she was really good in this movie, but it seemed like there were times when it felt like she was in a slightly different movie than the comedians

[00:28:11] What's the movie she did with Jim Carrey, Jim Dick and Jane fun with Dick and Jane. I actually never saw that. Um, but yeah, I agree with you. It kind of felt like she was in a different movie. I never, I never was super bought in on her story. Cause she's really just a witness. You know, and they, they don't just take her testimony, then all of a sudden, she's like, with them all the time, and So wait,

[00:28:30] What's going on with her and her stripper friend? Yeah.

[00:28:44] It wasn't, like, she was just supposed to be there. And then, like, the S**t went down, and her call girl friend got murdered. Oh yeah, stripper,

[00:28:53] all did it for Mike Lowry. It was because Mike Lowry needed them to do it. So, but is Julie

[00:29:00] Or is she just a friend? I think

[00:29:05] why is she going to a party with an escort when she knows that she would just

[00:29:11] think that was it. Yeah, I think, didn't she, I haven't watched it in a couple weeks, but didn't she want her?

[00:29:18] she brought her along, like, kind of as support, and then, you know, she got shot

[00:29:29] I think she's just a friend. I don't know. It

[00:29:35] lets you fill in the blanks. Somebody that was writing the script, if there was one person in charge, would have been like, we need to be clarified what's happening here. It just was kind of a bowl of soup.

[00:30:02] Which, interesting side fact, this was the first huge African American led movie to do really well in Europe. So traditionally, traditionally African American lead films don't do well in Europe, but this one crushed in the box office.

[00:30:15] the right guys.

[00:30:31] So you get like this dude who's beloved from his television show and his music. And then. You know, one of the best comedians on the planet. Like, that's kind of a no fail

[00:30:47] I know they looked at

[00:30:52] Especially cause Snipes is not a comedian. Snipes is really good at playing straight, but it probably would've been very serious.

[00:31:01] Oh, I had that in my notes. I'm glad you remembered it because I forgot. Fishburne, which I love Lawrence Fishburne, but again, a much different actor.

[00:31:13] all. And I don't think as young at the time. I don't think so.

[00:31:35] Because his mother was very critical of the amount of profanity. Mrs. Bay. Apparently, she had never Obey Mrs. Bay. Yeah. Apparently, she had not, was not familiar with Martin Lawrence's work. This is a good time to bring up another side, Randall, but I texted you guys about this. Martin Lawrence, I think, if not one of the few, one of the only actors to have his opening monologue for SNL canceled.

[00:32:14] cat type. Your friend Tia, Le Leo Is it Leone, right? It's either Tia or Teah. Teah. Leone. Leone. I I've heard it pronounced so many ways. She was knocked unconscious during filming. She stood on the wrong mark and a stuntman threw an AK 47 and she was not in her OH NO! She wasn't in her right place and she acknowledges that.

[00:32:45] It was actually 19, but something happened where they lost some money, and so it ended up being like a nine million dollar budget. Well, because

[00:33:00] And so the high speed chase, the explosion laden film, they wouldn't approve it, so he literally wrote them, he said, How much is the scene?

[00:33:18] That is a very

[00:33:19] But that scene made Michael Bay Michael Bay like yeah, that's kind of like his like his bread and butter

[00:33:30] book and then like I said earlier then he once it made 60 million dollars He called the studio and asked for reimbursement.

[00:33:36] problem. I love that. I was wondering when I read that I was like, how did how did he afford that? He had a very successful career as a music video and commercial director There you go. So he was already fine. Hey, I guess he had it

[00:33:53] It's all very just like stylized. Yes.

[00:33:57] Yeah. Read me those rights. Shall we? We have the right, [00:34:00] the right to remain violent. The right.

[00:34:06] and bad. You guys are making this so much better than what I have. Like, I love it. Like that you have all this

[00:34:10] I just like, I liked

[00:34:16] it. I, yeah. I even did some research on Lethal Weapon 2. It's like the first time I've ever done any research for this podcast.

[00:34:31] Like, it's just a specific time. They just captured something in Lethal Weapon, and it was just It's endearing. It's funny. Like, I want the camaraderie they have. I want to be Murtaugh when I'm old. Like, I'm just relating at every level, you know? Well,

[00:34:59] The [00:35:00] kids come in. Like the whole just, you know, we're all married men. We can all relate to like, just like the kids are cock blocking and the wife and you know, just like life happens and you just like, that's very relatable. Yes. And then it just cuts to like, you know, rich boy, I guess like Will Smith who inherited money.

[00:35:30] Like they're just complete opposites, but they're

[00:35:47] Does it use wind? Solar? Is it carbon neutral? This iPad is way too undercharged for this S**t. Okay,

[00:35:56] I'm sorry, I, this cigar is I, and I swear I'm over it. I [00:36:00] was It sounds like it. I was sick two weeks ago. I I'm DBFs, not even that. If I thought I was contagious, I definitely wouldn't have

[00:36:06] I don't think you're contagious, you're definitely not over it. Ha ha ha! As evidenced by the

[00:36:13] sorry, dude. It's probably because you're talking so much, so you're getting more smoke,

[00:36:18] No, please. Top Bill Kass from Lethal Weapon. Well, let's just keep it easy, right? Mel Gibson and Danny Glover vs. Will Smith and Martin Lawrence.

[00:36:39] They really love working together at shows. I don't think it's easy to sell two guys that have kind of that platonic bro love. For each other, like it's not an easy sell, but these guys make it seem so natural. Like you said, it's very grounded. I think they sell it. And I think the dialogue is just written so well for them.

[00:37:09] There's just these little moments. And Mel Gibson and Glover sell them so well. I think Martin Lawrence overpowers an early, dramatic Will Smith. And I think Will Smith does good here. And it's close, but I don't think he can beat Mel Gibson and Dan and Glover here. What do you think, Filskies? Uh,

[00:37:29] I mean, it was comedic, but he was like, And there's that one scene where he kind of loses it in the car when Martin Lawrence is driving. I think he's driving the Porsche. That was the funniest scene in the movie, man. Yeah, when he's sitting over in the passenger seat. And he kind of has that moment where he goes off.

[00:38:36] Dude around like he's so sexy going on and on. So

[00:38:39] and you know, he's laying in bed with her. Like, I'm so horny, right? Yeah, exactly. It's basically throwing myself at me right now. Yeah,

[00:38:52] It's the Taylor Leone's character. I thought it was, I, I really enjoyed their dynamic and it's not even necessarily that I think that one [00:39:00] duo was better than the other, but I personally really enjoyed the Martin Lawrence Will Smith thing a lot. Like I love those two guys and especially that era in comedy in the nineties, that was just so good.

[00:39:13] Martin Lawrence and Will Smith were, individually, I think they were both really solid. I thought Martin Lawrence was just Martin Lawrence ing all over the place. Like, he's funny, he is who he is, he chews up the scene. Like, it's just entertainment. You know, just pure entertainment value, watching him do his thing.

[00:39:52] They just, and they had an advantage because they had already, uh, they'd have done an entire movie together. So they had already laid the groundwork. So there, if we're just comparing these two movies, which we [00:40:00] are, they had a significant advantage. They had the same director. Yeah. So they had had some experience, but even in the first one, like there, there was just sparks from the, from the get go.

[00:40:13] Yeah, it's so close, but I totally agree. I love that. One to zero, it's getting lethal for bad boys already. How good can they get, those boys? Best supporting cast! It's an iPhone today, it's not an iPad. I don't know what's happening.

[00:40:26] make phone calls. I'm squinting. It's a squint pad. It's interesting, uh, Tia Leone did not get paid much for this movie. She's not even on there. She's not even on here. But we're gonna say Tia Leone, Joe Pesci, I guess I'll just read some of these names here, Patsy Kinsit, Joss Ackland, Derek O'Connor, Darlene Love, Tracy Wolfe, I guess you have to throw in Dean Norris.

[00:41:08] Yeah, this is a Teresa Randall obviously played the wife Mm hmm. I mean to me this is like a layup

[00:41:25] He was like the guy that owned the car place He was like their snitch or whatever.

[00:41:37] also Yeah, and I watched like nine buddy cop movies in a week.

[00:41:40] you're like swimming in the details. Yeah, Michael is really great. I mean he plays a horrible dude, uh, Christopher Montezani in Sopranos, but he's so good. So,

[00:41:57] I think she was she did what she could do with what she was handed, and [00:42:00] I thought she was just wonderfully charming. I don't understand why the hell she wanted to go to this. Quote unquote party with her roommate who she knows is an escort. Maybe she's an escort. Maybe they're just good friends. Who the frick knows?

[00:42:21] she was scared. She was

[00:42:23] Why can't she just go pick out the guy? Like, look at some mugshots and But she wouldn't. So that whole thing was a little confusing. But I think what she was given, she did a really good job. I thought she was really You know, really, uh, charming and that scene on the bed. Like she was, she was kind of like figuring it out, trolling him a bit.

[00:42:58] Yeah. He's just. So, so [00:43:00] talented and so dynamic and diverse and, uh, bad boys. I don't know. It was fine. It was, that was, that was all about Will

[00:43:11] there's not a lot else going on in that movie, but yeah, so I'll say lethal weapon because I think Joe Pesci was just.

[00:43:37] It was It was so ridiculously cheesy what she would do in every scene. She'd come in and be this, like, rule following regulator. Like, you guys can't do that, blah, blah, blah. Like, she was, she was ridiculous and not believable at all. But, um, yeah, Joe Pesci, man, he, he stole the show in that. So, uh, for that reason and that reason alone, I gotta

[00:43:57] For that reason, I'm out. No. That's Michael Imperioli, by [00:44:00] the way. He was in

[00:44:02] he's really

[00:44:13] Um, I also go with Lethal Weapon. Listen, I, I actually was thinking the other day, I was, cause I've been knee deep in my Sopranos rewatch cause my favorite show probably ever. Sopranos? Yeah, I made that decision recently. It's just So Over the wire. Yeah, over the, I think so. Breaking Bad Mad man. It's, yeah, it's close, but it's, wow.

[00:44:49] I mean, he's just, he's just so good. I was thinking he's been in over 150 films. And I think that's why they call him Joey Pants. Cause he's kinda just this, every guy. Like, he just, he just. Every movie needs their pants. And he [00:45:00] was Cypher in The Matrix. I mean, he's just done all kinds of movies. And, but he wasn't enough to hold it together for me.

[00:45:21] Like, this is how we act in the police precinct. We play jokes. There was a lot of dynamic, and a lot of them, I don't even know their names. I do know Dean Norris. Who does great. But I just They're kind of one

[00:45:35] Mm hmm. But then the household and the family as a unit is a great character. Much like the department as a unit, none of those stand out. Except for maybe the, you know, Sigmund Frod. She's funny. But the rest of the Mm hmm. The department kind of is a character as

[00:45:50] So I, I love it. I love the reality of that. So that's why I went Lethal Weapon 2. Speaking of Lethal Weapon 2, is this going to be death by lethal injection for bad boys here? It's two to [00:46:00] zero early on. Is it looking grim for them? I don't know. Let's see. It's looking bad. It's looking bad. Boy, I'll say. Boys, it is looking bad.

[00:46:23] And then in Bad Boys, it was the classical guitar, almost the Cubano, Miami flair. Yeah, very Miami. Yes! Best in between dialogue, music, score, filler, whatever. I love it. They're both

[00:46:48] I was like in from that I was like, dude, this music rules. It's a total vibe. They got the Miami thing right with that score and it felt really, really good and cohesive in a part of that movie the whole time. And to me, that's. [00:47:00] like a landslide for bad

[00:47:03] Miami from there.

[00:47:19] film. Yeah, it has sexiness to it. It was great.

[00:47:22] think, Drew? Yeah, I'm torn on this one. If we were comparing the first Lethal Weapon, I actually think the music in the first one was better than Lethal Weapon 2. It was much more Clapton y. I think he maybe was less involved in the second one, perhaps. I don't know, it seemed less like Eric was involved,

[00:47:37] Yeah, I can tell you from the guitar tone that he was. I could be totally

[00:47:53] Even though like we're in 95 bad boys was popular, like the show cops, the show was more [00:48:00] popular in the early nineties. So it seemed like that song was a little dated for maybe where this movie came into play. Also, I don't know why this movie is called bad boys. I'm not really, they're not bad. Yes, they're cops.

[00:48:12] They're badass boys. I get that, obviously, and they put the song in there and stuff, but like, I was expecting this movie for them to be, like, criminals or something. You know, I thought it was gonna be more like They're ass boys.

[00:48:31] so you're saying at a bare minimum, should they, they should have renamed this movie.

[00:48:44] but bad Law. Law. Abiding family man. High quality boys. We've gotten off, off topic of the music, but I still think Bad Boys music was more, I guess to Phil's point, it was more of a Mm-Hmm.

[00:49:00] more of in the second. You know, this could have been a tie for me. I loved both. Like I, I, the reason I went Lethal Weapon is because I don't know why it worked. It kind of became another trope to have that kind of bluesy guitar, that harmonica kind of like, and I don't know why they went that route, but it works.

[00:49:29] Like why did they go that way? Like why have Clapton come in and it just works? But you know, I could have honestly it doesn't matter. I probably picked lethal weapon. You both got bad boys, but I I love them both. Bad boys is becoming decent boys. They are now it's now two to one. Okay, bad boys is in the hunt.

[00:49:59] Are [00:50:00] you going to me? Yeah,

[00:50:17] They didn't know what to expect with him. They actually didn't really like him very much. If you watch the following movies, like they kind of grow to love him and involve him. They want to get him involved, but in two, they don't really like him and they don't want to deal with them. So I think Julie Mott would be.

[00:50:48] Like I get the initial like they had she only wanted to talk to Mike and Mike couldn't be there So Marcus had to show up and do the thing I get that but once you got her Why didn't they just say yo, it's actually I'm Marcus. We got to go see Mike, [00:51:00] but just chill I think that could have been an easy like that was an unnecessary thing They just carried on through the movie in my opinion, but I think she to answer the question I think she probably would have been an easier babysit.

[00:51:10] guess

[00:51:19] comedy though, because if they were to go out and say it, then a lot of the jokes go away, you know.

[00:51:31] And like, all the pictures of Mike are in the thing. And she's like, is this your lover? And he's like, no, no, no. We just, I put a picture of him up every time he saves my life. It's just, it's a cop thing. He did the same thing for me. There's some, yeah, that's a good point. There's some comedic moments built around that.

[00:51:53] Dude, I totally forgot about the apartment scene when he first goes into Mike's apartment, and he's like, I designed this [00:52:00] place! Why don't I know where all the light switches are? And then he trips over something, and he's like, Why do I keep tripping over S**t that I know is there?

[00:52:12] Will Smith I was I had to pause the movie.

[00:52:30] she's charming and she's kind of hot Yeah, it's fun to have a girl around but like Joe Pesci, good lord He's funny for us But if I was in charge of him, I would not want to deal with that Like he's

[00:52:44] Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

[00:52:47] anytime when my kids get older and they ask me about money laundering, I'm just gonna hit play on that scene and let him explain money laundering. They're f***ing you in the driveway! They f*** you in the drive thru. That was a terrible look for Subway, by the way. f*** you in [00:53:00] the drive thru. They were talking about

[00:53:01] Yeah, I also go that. As a lover of the movie, Pesci is incredible, and I prefer his character. But if I'm the cops babysitting, you don't want the guy. That dude's running his mouth. He's constantly getting you in worse trouble. Also, Julie proved to be more Capable of defending herself. She, she

[00:53:20] Yeah.

[00:53:35] He was. It's so funny dude and it's what one thing I loved about that whole thing was that Danny Glover's like six five or something Like he Danny Glover's a large man and Leo, you know, he's so short And so just in half the things he's like looking up like he's looking up like it's his dad or something half the time It's just so funny.

[00:53:52] the chemistry. I love it when they They're having lunch or breakfast with him or whatever. And he's explaining to him how the laundering works. Leo gets you what you want. I love it when [00:54:00] Murtaugh's like, okay, okay. And he's kind of playing with them, going along. I did love that chemistry. That was really

[00:54:07] Danny Glover is 6'4 and he is 77 years old. Boom. That's a tall

[00:54:23] Which Joe? Well, we've already

[00:54:37] Shooting basketball, like what is happening? Why was he shooting hoops, smoking a cigar? Like to me, that was such a funny scene. I still, I have to go Pesci because I'm like a Pesci lifer because of this movie, but I did think that that scene was awesome and very memorable. However, I'll go Lethal Weapon

[00:54:53] Yeah, LW2, same. Once again, Joe Pesci, Joe Pesci stole the show in that one. That was the better Joe, [00:55:00] like hands

[00:55:13] And Will Smith is just standing there like, Somebody want to tell me what the f f*** is going on? It's just

[00:55:37] Like, I think he was great and Breaking Bad, or God, I keep saying Breaking Bad cause Dean Norris. And bad boys. And bad boys. Like, he's, he's serviceable and he's good. But I've seen him be great. He's great in The Sopranos as Ralph. I mean, he is just unreal in that role. So, I don't think he necessarily does the full thing here.

[00:56:07] Um, it's, it's weird to me, I think one of the reasons I was trying to think like, why do I love Pesci so much? Why is he in my top five? I just think he's always super loud, he's always chewing up a ton of scene, but for whatever reason, it's never, you never get tired of it. You know, you're just like, give me more Pesci.

[00:56:39] If you're a criminal, I love this idea. If you're a criminal, which cop duo do you, do you fear the most? This is a tough one. Oh, interesting. Flipping it on the other side. Yeah. If you're the criminal. Interesting. Obviously we have some pretty high rank and file criminals here in both movies, but if you're like, uh, You know casual dealer

[00:56:58] I've heard this category I [00:57:00] think I would fear the Martin Lawrence Will Smith duo the most because those guys got they had a synchronization to their partnership Out in the field, that was pretty great. That opening scene where those guys try to carjack the Porsche, and they like, get into an argument solely for the purpose of distracting the dudes, and then they take them both out.

[00:57:37] Whereas like Riggs and Murtaugh, they kind of bumbled a bit and it was part of the fun and part of the comedy that film, but they weren't necessarily scary. They were really good at their jobs, but they weren't quite as terrifying to me as, as the Martin Lawrence. Will Smith duo. Love it. I don't even have anything on it.

[00:57:53] think, Drew Skees? Well, I think the characters themselves answered this question, in my opinion, because Lethal Weapon villain didn't [00:58:00] really care. I mean, his whole thing was, what did he say? Like, something immunity? Yeah, because he's a diplomat. Diplomatic immunity. Like, he clearly just did not fear those guys because he had the government standing in his corner.

[00:58:24] So, he just, I don't think he was much afraid of them. Whereas bad boys, I think there was just more, uh, they were a greater threat. I think, I don't know. I will say both of these randomly, one tendril we haven't discussed yet is both of these were progressive for the African American community in Hollywood.

[00:59:01] which duo do you fear the most So I think I go bad boys because they feared them more well even Donner, so Donner actually I read an interview with him and I think he talks about on the commentary When a casting director suggested Glover, his response was but he's black.

[00:59:25] he just, Danny Glover got the part because they had the best chemistry.

[00:59:43] But I think that's why it's scary. Because Riggs is so unhinged, you never know what that dude's gonna do. Okay,

[00:59:50] it's really effective and sometimes it isn't yeah, he's chasing cars on foot through like a city like

[01:00:03] I

[01:00:06] uh, what the f*** this guy doesn't follow the law Yeah,

[01:00:32] And anyway, I thought she was. Uh,

[01:00:38] another heavy handed plot point. We talked about some plot errors in Bad Boys with Lethal Weapon. Like, did we need to find out that these guys were the ones that killed his Vicky, his early wife, too?

[01:00:54] was a little bit of a, that was a stretch. Yeah. Like it was kind of like, let's write that in. [01:01:00] Cause that'll be an, Oh S**t moment. But it didn't, I kind of didn't land for me. Yeah. It was, it

[01:01:06] You know, these are the guys that killed his original wife or he falls in love with this girl and they kill her, but he falls in love with this girl. They kill her and you find out they killed his fine. Like it was like, Whoa, I don't know. I go back and forth. I kind of like it. Cause it adds to the drama and the twists and the turns, but also like, I'm just, did we need it?

[01:01:34] did put one apartheid, it said free apartheid or stop something on the fridge.

[01:01:50] So they did plant those seeds, but I don't know if they really earned that

[01:02:09] But, no, great points across the board. It is tied! We are, we're getting good at this. I think our last few matchups, right, Phil? 3 3? Yeah, it's 3 3. Wow. So that means Last two have come down to the last category. Yes. And this one, so here's an extra category I hadn't put on the card. And now that I'm looking at it, I actually love it.

[01:02:38] a tough ass. I mean, how are we pitting these against each other? Because, like, as two cars, like, there's an obvious pick.

[01:02:59] You [01:03:00] know, I

[01:03:08] station. I don't know anything about that car. I just

[01:03:20] But he's a family man, and he's in his new station wagon. I just love that they had the balls to go with that. And like, and it's, it's, to me the station wagon had it's own personality. It did. It really totally did. This is a tough one for me, because like Those guys can't

[01:03:34] Sorry to interrupt.

[01:03:39] I'll go ahead and start off, cause I, cause like, to finish my earlier point, it's the hilarity of the unhinged Riggs, Riggs character in the station wagon in the beginning, like, they're screaming at each other, they're like, he's making all these jokes, and it kinda looks like, cause you know, like, Riggs has his moments where he's like, super out of his mind.

[01:04:10] Like they didn't have to, they could have given an indentation. They could have given Murtaugh a Corvette or some really sexy ass car, but they gave him a station wagon. I think

[01:04:26] And that coulda been a whole thing. But they're like, Nope. We're gonna keep him true He's an older, crotchety guy, Boating is his thing, We're sticking him in a station wagon. I

[01:04:41] He's rich, he's wealthy, and that was an interesting twist on the genre altogether to have one of them not necessarily be like a middle of the line, blue collar cop type of guy. What do you think, Drew? Yeah, I'll go.

[01:04:56] Obviously, the Porsche. And, a little another little rando that we didn't mention, [01:05:00] that Porsche is Michael Bay's. Oh, yeah. The studio didn't want to provide them a Porsche. Bay's like, no, we have to have a sexy car. f***ing Michael Bay. So, Michael Bay provided his own, like, sexy car. Six figure car for use in the movie, and I just thought that was awesome.

[01:05:29] that.

[01:05:30] out. Oh man, I, I can't not go the Porsche here because if you have ever driven one, There is nothing like one of those. Is it like my Camry? It's a lot like your Camry in that it is Paid off? No, no. No man, like, Porsche is a special vehicle, and I'm sure some, some f***er on the internet will be like, It's

[01:05:52] Porsche.

[01:06:12] And so I just have to go the Porsche I cannot not go the

[01:06:28] wheels and we're the two balls That was my original quote I

[01:06:35] Well, this category ended up having a lot more meaning than I anticipated because I totally forgot that about the, the, the, with the portion.

[01:06:57] This was a great matchup. This was one of the most fun ones [01:07:00] we've done in a while. Drew went on a tangent with his, with watching all these movies. Amazing. I love that you brought all the expertise here. Totally took the load off me, which I loved. I'm raising my

[01:07:13] Bonus. Bonus category. Do it. Best MJ reference. And this is why this is important. I need to be reminded of which, of what those were. I'll lay it out. So, Lethal Weapon 2 comes out in the 80s. Lethal Weapon is known as an 80s thing, even though the last two came out in the 90s. Bad Boys in the heart of the 90s, right?

[01:07:45] Fast forwarded six years to Bad Boys in the basketball shooting scene, Joey Pants made. made some comment like you're gonna retire like Michael Jordan or something, something along those lines. Also references MJ in that tiny little window where he retired for the first of three [01:08:00] times. And I just thought that was cool that both of those movies shared like an adoration for MJ.

[01:08:06] No, I love that. I'd have to go actually Bad Boys on that one because I love the relevance of the retiring and the baseball thing. And it

[01:08:16] MJ. But that was such a big deal to when he retired.

[01:08:21] the movie came out, he had already like, yeah, looped. So it dated it was like the quickest dated joke ever. Like by the time the movie even came out, he had unretired. So it didn't really play anymore. But the crowd probably like laughed and rolled their

[01:08:32] I love that. What do you

[01:08:46] I think the joke about Michael Jordan was pretty solid. So we'll give Bad

[01:08:54] you go. No, I love that observation. I mean, you know, I'm always a sucker for a Michael reference. Mikey j Mikey. [01:09:00] Well, this was one of the most fun podcasts we've, we've done.

[01:09:16] This has been

[01:09:20] Ball, yeah. Which ball are you? I'm the, I guess I'm the Drew Ball wheel. He drew the ball. They

[01:09:26] I'm not, I'm not Mike Lau. We