Musicians need to prioritize professionalism in their craft, and this episode dives into five critical behaviors they should stop immediately. The hosts discuss the importance of replying to emails promptly, finding replacements when canceling gigs, and avoiding the pitfalls of overconfidence that come from relying solely on talent without preparation. They also explore the repercussions of double booking and the impact it has on reputation and relationships within the industry. The conversation touches on the dynamics of band relationships and the importance of knowing one's role in a performance. With a mix of humor and personal anecdotes, the hosts provide insights that are both entertaining and educational for musicians at any stage of their careers.

Takeaways:

• The DNA project offers live music solutions for weddings and events, ensuring a memorable experience.
• Musicians should reply to emails promptly to maintain professionalism and avoid losing opportunities.
• Double booking is a serious issue musicians need to avoid to maintain their reputation.
• Finding replacements for canceled gigs is crucial for preserving relationships in the music industry.
• Showing up unprepared solely relying on talent can damage a musician's credibility over time.
• All musicians should focus on serving the song rather than showcasing their individual skills.

Chapters:

• 00:00 - Intro to the DNA Project
• 00:13 - The Importance of Live Music at Weddings
• 01:01 - Meet the Hosts: A Fun Evening Recording
• 01:40 - Identifying with Larry David
• 09:03 - Top 5 Things Musicians Need to Stop Doing
• 09:38 - 1. Not Replying to Emails
• 12:16 - 2. Not Having Solutions for Problems
• 15:19 - 3. Showing Up Unprepared
• 21:40 - 4. Double Booking Yourself
• 29:19 - 5. Not Getting Back to People Quickly Enough
• 46:04 - Wrap-Up and Future Topics
• 46:53 - Outro and Promoting Captivate

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• DNA Project
• Tim Hortons
• Captivate

A lot of you are familiar with the DNA project and have been rocking with us for a while, but some of you aren't.

A lot of you are faithful listeners of the podcast but aren't familiar with some of the other work that we do.

So I just want to take a quick moment to explain to you a little bit more of what we do.

So you're getting married, or you have a friend, a cousin, a sister, somebody you know who's getting married.

Okay, you've booked your venue, caterers, photographer, all that good stuff.

When it comes to live music, most people have no idea where to look.

We have you covered.

Picture this.

During the ceremony, while guests are being seated, or while the bride's walking down the aisle, during the cocktail hour, while guests are just mingling and having a good time, don't forget about dinner music.

That's very important to set the mood while guests eat.

And we definitely can't forget the party.

Let's get the party started right now with the DNA project.

Wwwdnaproject.

CA for more information.

Heart, my friends, you don't even know.

You don't even want to know.

Don't want to know what's on your heart.

Hey.

I was like, who's gonna bring the energy tonight?

All right, welcome to character.

Yeah, welcome.

Welcome to the DNA airwaves.

We're here, we're partying.

We're recording in the evening for the first time ever, I think, right?

Ever.

Yeah.

This is the latest recording.

We're trying it.

We're seeing how it feels.

We have Anthony, not at his finest hour.

We have Doriki Palmer, always at his finest hour.

And we have me, Matt Kessel, Larry David.

Oops.

Yeah, we were just talking about.

That was private, but we were just talking about how I started watching curb your enthusiasm.

And I'm coming to the confusing realization that of all cinematic and television characters, I might identify the most with Larry David.

And he's a real person.

Funny.

Yeah.

I wonder who I would identify the most as.

I identify a lot with Bill Burr, actually.

Bill Burr?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why?

The gal them sugar.

Who'd I be?

Yeah, you are the gather sugar.

Yeah.

Version.

Like, when I listen to Bill Burr, I know that type of guy.

But, yeah, you're right.

I don't identify with that.

He speaks to my soul.

Wow, interesting.

I understand you so much better now.

I love Bill Burr.

I know so much of his work.

Oh, speaking of left out here.

Yeah, that.

Oh, no, it's a Bill Burr thing.

We can talk about that.

Oh, got you, Billiam Burlington.

Super left out.

So this is the first time we've all been together in a while.

How is everybody?

Yeah, yeah, good.

It's been a minute.

Summer is basically over.

Yeah.

I don't know.

September can be pretty summery.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

I was out in a t shirt this morning and it was very cold and I had to go inside.

Yep.

Summary.

Yeah, I know the last few mornings have been quite cold, actually.

Really crisp, so.

And evenings too.

Yeah.

Crips.

Yeah, man.

Cripps P.

Crips P.

Is that your name?

Crips P.

Crips P.

Have I ever told you that one time someone thought my name was Greasy?

Greasy?

Greasy.

I feel like you did tell us, and it's funnier the second time, but how dear that was.

No, no.

Where did it happen?

I don't remember the details.

It was like, oh, no.

Yeah, tell me.

I was gonna try.

I don't wanna say where, but it was like one of, like, a big job that I.

And she was introducing me to people.

And then, like, my boss's boss is just kind of like half ass paying attention.

He's like, oh, this is our new hire, Dorique.

He's like, nice to meet you, greasy.

And I'm like, he didn't even ask for clarification.

No, I think he did.

Oh, no, I think he went greasy.

And I was like, uh, all the guesses, you thought greasy?

No, Doriaki.

And he's like, okay.

That's what he said.

Okay.

And just like, shut my hands.

Like, get out of here types.

Those types.

Mandy, how'd you feel?

How'd you feel at that moment?

I felt violent.

I thought you were gonna say violated, but violent.

Yeah.

No, violent.

Like, I felt like, fair enough.

Pay attention.

You know, you better listen up.

Yeah.

There once was a Tim Hortons employee at a Tim Hortons I frequented named Schweitz.

And one time he was amazing.

Like, he just got everything done very quickly, didn't speak much English.

And one time I approached him and asked him, how is the orange juice here?

And he said, yes, and gave me orange juice.

That is my story.

I feel like that's a Larry David story, and then I have to buy it.

Oh, I see what's happening.

You're becoming the character that you identify with.

This is a true story.

That is a Larry David story, though.

We do become who we.

Who we envision ourselves being.

So cool.

Larry, for the rest of this podcast, which is about 25 more minutes, because if you know Anthony, it's almost my bedtime, fellas.

I got, like, literally now what do me depends on the night.

And I'd like to be in bed by 945, the latest.

Hmm.

Wow.

That's fair.

And then you wake up, 230 in the morning.

To be honest, I'm just feeling tired, and I don't want to wake up early.

I would like to sleep from 945 till 745, and I'll wake up feeling very accomplished tomorrow if that happens.

The most accomplished.

Wow.

Wow.

945 to 745.

This is my goal.

Good luck.

Someone's listening.

Like, wow.

Take anything to fall asleep or.

No, I do have some melatonin.

I don't usually dabble too often, but I took it once, and I.

It's one of those, yeah, super.

One of those things where you'll take something in the anticipations, like, yes, here we go.

Bedtime.

And then either you knock out hard and wake up, like an hour later, and I'm wired for the rest of the night.

Like, stuff like that happens, so.

Right.

I can't mess around.

I'm tired now, so I just got to get this going.

Matter of fact, if you guys don't mind, I'd rather just not lose this tired momentum and peace, if that's cool.

Yeah.

Do you want to go to bed?

Stay on camera?

Yeah, just go to bed on camera.

Just want to see people do that.

Close friends do that, I'm sure.

Oh, that's funny.

Imagine someone's just like, yo, I'll just sit this one out for 2 seconds.

You guys ever done that?

The.

I don't know why I still want to call it skyping, zooming, or facetiming with someone without talking, like, for hours and falling asleep and stuff like that.

I've seen people do that.

I've seen it, too.

Yeah.

It's not in me to do.

I'm not the guy, pal.

I do that.

If I was in prison and I had facetime, very different in that situation, for sure.

Fall asleep talking to you.

Maybe when I was younger, I think my brother's gonna punch me for sharing this, but when I was younger, my brother and his girlfriend would just stay on the phone silently, like, they wouldn't say anything together and just, like, sit there curled up in their beds, just like.

And they were like, did you say something?

No.

And then they just kind of, like, sit there still.

It was.

I joked about it at the wedding because it was always a phenomenon to me.

This was when evenings and weekends were already a thing.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, man.

Barely daytime minutes.

Yeah, it was.

It was weird.

Yeah.

Anyway, yeah.

Now they got that out of the way, right?

You know what?

They deserve better than this for me.

I got to pull it together.

I may be tired.

All right, let's go.

What do you got, captain lead?

This.

Me and Matt had talked about one thing, and you and I, Doriki, had talked about another thing.

So whoever says I first is gonna be the one who.

Can you give us clues to talk about the thing?

No, that's it.

Then you say I or Doriki, just.

Cause you said, who said I first, but didn't say what was gonna happen.

Oh, okay, fair enough.

Took a while to reveal what was gonna happen.

So it's like, let's rush into the eye.

There's no one rushing.

All right.

Just quietly do it.

No, I said I already after I found out.

Oh, wow.

I had missed that whole thing.

We, like, hit the climax and fell flat because I wasn't paying attention.

That's cool.

So, man, I'm gonna need a lot of energy for this.

So member Doriki?

I'm just joking.

We had talked about the five or a bunch of things that musicians should stop doing, and I was like, right, I was in that place, and I was just like, man, they gotta stop doing.

Did I tell you?

No, I didn't.

No, you didn't reveal it.

I revealed it even better.

So this will be a surprise to you, you and all of you.

So I'm going to break them down.

I'll just spit them out, because I don't really have time and the energy.

I'm just joking.

Oh, I remember.

No, you don't remember.

You're supposed to be surprised.

Yeah, we talked about it briefly, too, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I'm going to spit them out, and then we can talk about that for a little while.

And if you guys think they suck, then maybe you fall into the category of these people that I'm actually sick and tired of dealing with.

In no particular order, though, because I hadn't got that far.

So these are the top five things that I believe musicians need to stop doing now, exclamation mark number one.

Let's see if you're surprised by any of these at all, too.

Not replying to emails.

Are these?

Because I feel like they're all going to be pretty specific to any professional, I guess.

No, you're going to get into music here, too, but never find the email.

This is a podcast for musicians.

Sorry, I know.

No, you're right.

It could be for anyone.

I'm sure if you're a postman, this is going to apply to you too.

You got to reply.

But that one's transferable is all he's saying.

No.

And I agree.

Yeah.

No.

If you're a post person and you're.

And you don't reply to emails, might be specific.

Awful.

On a federal level.

Postman.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah.

The guy in the short.

I don't know why it sounds different.

I've actually never said post person before, so I'm ashamed of myself.

You're right.

My band has a band.

No, please go on.

Do you really?

Yeah.

Okay.

It's on our second album.

How many albums do you have?

Three.

And there's a fourth one coming up.

Cool.

Please continue.

Okay, so number one.

Okay, don't.

Don't reply to emails.

No, no.

Don't tell them not to reply to emails.

Because people who do not reply to email.

Sorry.

Doing that.

Yes.

Stop doing that thing.

Okay.

I'm not gonna tell you why.

Because you.

There's so many reasons why you're gonna miss.

Give us a couple.

It's your list.

You're gonna miss out on work.

It's gonna seem like you don't care.

I.

Yep, yep.

It drives me.

Seeming like you don't care is massive.

Cuz nobody wants to work with somebody who appears like they don't care.

Right.

That's.

That's a huge one for me.

Right.

If you're not.

People want to be in a fun environment when they're at work.

Yeah.

You want to be.

Want to keep me happy or professional.

You know, bare minimum, it doesn't need to be fun, but you want to.

Get the job done, you know?

And I get it.

Cause the musician side is the creative, so it's not.

It's tough.

Not everyone has that balance between, you know, the administrative parts of it and being a musician and creative.

But it's important.

It's important.

This is how we communicate.

Agreed.

Thank you.

I got that off my chest.

I'm actually starting to feel better.

One by one.

I can't wait to get to number five.

Alright.

Alright, let's go.

Okay, so number two.

Number two.

Oh, man.

This might be okay.

Not having solutions when a problem is presented.

For instance, somebody saying I'm like, hey, hey, Doriki, I'm no longer available for this thing that I had said.

I'm available for the end.

Should that be the end, though?

You taught me this.

To be honest with you, as a music maybe.

Cause you have a lot more experience in this situation, and I've seen personally what you do in that situation.

So I already know that it's a no no just by your standards.

But I never knew that it would probably be in the musician's best interest to get a replacement for them.

So can you explain, maybe why you feel so strong?

I agree with you.

I just want you to kind of express why you believe so strongly as the musician.

If you are canceling, why you should find someone to replace.

No fair.

That's a good question.

But first, I want to ask Matt, what are your thoughts on this?

Because you're a musician as well.

I mean, you're free to do whatever you want if you don't want people to call you back.

If we look at this from the business point of it, which, admittedly, most musicians, including myself, need to get better at, you're a skilled laborer, and replacing you isn't something that can just be done, you know, with indeed a day before.

Right, right.

So when you do that, you're royally messing up a bunch of things.

You're messing up Anthony's reputation.

In this case, you're messing up potentially a wedding or whatever.

Yeah.

And you're not making money.

And ward travels.

It's not.

The industry is big, but it's not that big.

People talk.

And, like, I was doing a favor for.

I was working for.

For a friend doing sound, live sound.

And the keyboard is their new Anthony.

Like, it's everybody's.

And he had only nice things to say about you, by the way, and the summer song.

Right.

And.

Sorry, that's my opinion.

I went on a tangent.

Summer sauce, what is yours?

Summer sausages.

If you make an album, you have to call it summer sausages.

Whoa.

People will take that so wrong.

No, that can also refer to your picking fingers.

Boom.

Autobiography.

Dog.

Yeah, that's actually a really good breakdown.

So I'm gonna leave it right there.

Okay, fair enough.

We're just flying through these.

I think if this was a morning podcast, I'd elaborate a lot longer on these points, but, uh.

But I like these lists.

We should do more of them, because it's actually, now that I'm thinking about it, the whole top five thing.

But we're gonna make it more interesting because we have experienced personal touch.

Number three.

Number three.

Number three.

This one's funny, but it's not funny, but I can see how it happens.

See what I'm doing.

I don't know if I should laugh, then.

I'm so scared.

Hold on.

You decide.

All right, showing up unprepared, but solely based on talent.

That's the thing.

Yeah, so that's the thing.

And this is something, as a musician, you can really get by doing maybe in other things, like public speaking, you could probably wing it.

When you've put in the time and you're in music specifically, when you have the ear that you can kind of just play along.

You don't really need to know the song in every situation, but you can pretty much fake your way through a lot of situations that can become the norm pretty quickly, especially when you're piling on work.

You start to show up cute for a little while, but the.

I guess the cuteness of it wears off pretty quickly and it catches up with you.

And again, goes back to the reputation thing that Matt had mentioned earlier.

What are your takes on that one, Matt?

I saw this meme.

No, I'm not one of those guys.

Not at all.

I'm obsessively.

I know, I know a prepper.

But I've had times where I thought I could wing it, and I, like an audition and I messed it up.

And, you know, it was a band I wanted to play in, but I think a lot of musicians have had that sort of situation.

You kind of learn that.

What's that saying?

Smart people learn from other people's mistakes.

So I'm an idiot because I learn from my own mistakes.

Fair enough.

Many of us are.

There's a meme that I saw, and I forgot the actual meme, but it was like, a person that's freaked out.

And the caption said, the musician that said that, they know the song well enough when they reach the second half of the bridge.

Oh.

Cause they're freaking out.

Cause they have no idea what's going on.

Cause nobody remembers the second half of the bridge.

Yeah, right, right.

And if you can make it that far, you get some respect.

Yeah, yeah.

Cause you can remember the verse, the chorus, and then you think you remember the bridge.

And then the second half of it comes, and you're like, what the hell is this part?

Yeah, they added a new part to the song.

Yeah, but, yeah, that's no good.

And we've had that a couple of times in our band, where we were looking for a keyboardist and a few classical pianists showed up.

And they had this smugness about rock in general.

It seemed like they felt.

It's something that I've seen a few times that they felt like, because it's rock and classical is more complicated, which it isn't.

Necessarily that this should just come naturally to them and it's not a problem at all.

And they came unprepared.

These people that can play Rachmaninov and Bach and stuff would come unprepared and mess up, not be able to play.

So that's my opinion.

What do you think?

You asking me or you asking D?

D and then Anthony.

Oh, he's a rapper.

I kind of echo everything you said.

I feel like it's frustrating when you practice so much and then see someone else clearly not giving a shit.

That bothers me because I know the amount of work I put into preparing for a performance.

And so when I see someone during rehearsal not ready, and then at the show, they barely made any, you know, improvements from the rehearsal, it's like, you know, it's hard.

It's tough.

It's tough.

Yeah, yeah.

There's like an arrogance too, right?

Because even if somebody can show up and kill it, and to the crowd, it was a great show, but to the rest of the guys or gals or.

That's a good point, too.

Persons on stage, it's still like, yeah, but you didn't know the song.

We're not.

You're not fooling us.

So after a while, that can kind of wear on you too.

Like, you stop calling that person.

Some people slide by because they're just that good and you still call them and you know who.

You know who you are.

Have you ever done that, Anthony?

Have you ever just looked at a cue sheet and just.

Yeah.

What key it is?

Okay, I gotta keep going.

Yeah, I found myself.

I found myself super guilty of that.

When I started going to the.

This is funny.

It's therapy.

When I started going to the CCM type churches, the music was easy at a level that I just wasn't really even listening to it.

That's what I was wondering about, if.

I'm being honest, especially when there was like a chord chart on stage for me.

Yeah, give me the roots.

I can hear the rest from there.

So, yeah, I definitely went through a phase like that, and I know a lot of musicians have, so I'm still on your side.

I'm not trying to call you out in a negative way, I'm just trying to call you out as a friend.

Just do better.

It's just part of the truth of CCM.

I'm sorry, there's.

Now there's a really big delay.

So I always think you're done and then you move on to the next sentence.

I'm never done.

Do you want to say something else?

No, I'm done.

I'm never done.

Do you want to say something else?

No, I'm done.

What I was going to say is that CCM, and this is in no way, I don't mean this in a negative way, but CCM has.

You can.

Part of the appeal is that you come to church, or in the sense of live music, is that you come to church and there's new songs every week and just everything is new and fresh and shiny every week.

And with that in mind, it's the music sort of morphed into this.

I guess there's templates involved, but it's just the songs are written in the kind of way where skilled musicians can just grab them and switch them quickly and learn a new one.

And it's very rewarding for the audience goers because there's a new, amazing, exciting, big production every week.

Fair enough.

Part of it.

Right.

Like, if it was a different type of music, do you think you'd be able to pull off the type of shows that you see CCM churches put on?

Not as easily.

I mean, it depends on the type of music.

But definitely that formats, like, super easy.

Yeah, yeah.

All right, let's move on.

This is a big one for me.

This is good.

So far so good.

Let's keep this momentum going.

Number four.

Tell them where it hurts, son.

Tell them where it hurt.

This is where it hurts.

This is where it gets me at the heart.

Oh, man.

Double booking.

That's kind of like number two.

That should be.

No, no.

Cause number two was like, just literally.

Maybe something came up.

Maybe you had, I don't know, an emergency, but you couldn't take the time just to say, but try this guy, or.

But this, or, you know, whatever.

But I have a different set of strings.

Just like, here's your.

Here's the problem.

But this one is straight up double booking.

Like, I have a calendar, but I somehow don't use it properly.

So does that book myself for multiple things?

Before I came on tonight, I was mid conversation about a double booking that I'm about to find out about.

Apparently it happens a lot.

Oh, my gosh.

It happens.

Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, not everyone does it, but the thing is, it's.

I guess it's just patterns, right?

Because the people who do it, do.

It, do it often.

So it's always a repeat offender.

You're not surprised.

I guess it's just behaviors.

Like, if you were to do that, I would be surprised.

But there's some people who do it like?

Well, I guess.

I guess I should have known better.

Do you have your hand up?

Yeah.

Wow, that's a huge delay.

I had my hand up, like, last week.

You know what?

I think it just clicked in.

I was like, are we at school?

I saw it a while ago.

Yes, we are at school.

And I hope you're taking notes and listening.

That was hilarious.

In Israel and some other countries.

But when I was a kid, we wouldn't raise our hand up.

We would raise a finger.

And when I moved here and all the kids had a full hand up, I was like, that makes so much more sense.

What was the point of the finger?

What a.

Yeah, it's better.

I like it.

It's humble.

What?

Good point.

It is kind of humble.

Um, what.

What I wanted to ask is if these are repeat offenders.

Why?

How do you even get to know that they're repeat offenders?

Why don't you stop calling them?

There's a really honest answer.

Sometimes they're just really good.

Yeah, there's just.

Yeah.

Unfortunate truth.

Some people are hard to replace and you're willing to take certain.

It's like you're in a weird, abusive relationship.

You're willing to take certain things that you shouldn't because there's other things that are really good that you might not get otherwise.

Right.

So you're telling me the talent people can get away with things that other people can get away with?

Stop talking about this.

I feel like the more we say it, I'm gonna slip someone's name.

I really like to move on.

Getting really uncomfortable here.

No, because you know who you are.

If you listen, then you know, and you're gonna hit me up and be like, I'm really gonna try and stop double booking.

I'm gonna be like, you're not.

But yeah, it happens.

And that's the truth of why these people are allowed to get away with it, because the talent.

And it sucks.

I guess when you're a certain level of good, at least in your, like, your community, it's.

It's, uh.

You can't even really find yourself a suitable sub.

That must do something to your.

Just your overall, like, maybe not ego, but yeah, I guess it is your ego, regardless of it, if it's arrogance or not.

Right?

Like, if you trap can.

Yeah.

Almost any other people are trapped.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And is it always the highest bidder wins in those situations?

So, like, if they would, they're obviously gonna follow the money.

It's not really just like the fact that you booked them and paid them to deposit or whatever.

Do you know, that's.

That's the thing.

I mean, it would make sense if you're leaving for more money, right?

Sometimes opportunity or.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm not always saying it goes against me, so sometimes it might work, but overall, I just.

I just think that there's a better way.

And there's a.

There's probably some systems that we have in place and technology to avoid that at this point.

I guess, easy to make mistake of booking yourself to be in two places at once.

Like, would you book yourself or a doctor's appointment and a dentist appointment at the same time?

Something would tell you that, you know, it doesn't work.

I don't know.

But yeah.

Doriki and I had very similar experiences multiple times when we had the studio, which I don't actually think we talked about on the air yet.

No.

But yeah, the news is out.

Maybe we'll talk about it later.

But we would have people that, for whatever reason, either they were a one of a kind talent, it happened more than once, or they were wealthy and it was their production.

But everybody, there'd be weeks of coordination, white glove decision making about how can we make this experience as incredible and as easy and soft as possible for this talented.

Right, Dorika, you can think of a couple of times like that, right?

And we all show up and like, don't look them in the eye or whatever.

Do look them and call them the doctor or call them the whatever.

And they are.

They don't eat this, they don't need gluten, they don't have celiac, they just don't eat gluten, don't talk about that, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And everybody be ready at this time.

Exactly.

And then we're all ready and we're all waiting and we all literally have white gloves on.

And then the person is 4 hours late.

Yeah.

And that happened multiple times, often.

Yeah.

It's just what it's like when you have the power over people.

Not everybody is willing to still be a decent person.

It's a good point.

I've seen that happen a lot.

Yeah.

Gross.

I guess.

Yeah, it's sure true.

They're also paying for their time.

But what was even the point of making us prep then, right?

To what end?

Ego, like you said, maybe.

So let's repeat what was number four again, just to refresh my memory.

Trying to make my heart stop.

Double booking, double book yourself to be two or three places at once at the same time.

On the same day.

Double booking.

And is this next one your most biggest, or is this just a random list?

Did you read it for most, at least?

Should have put it in order.

I feel like double bookings.

The worst of it, I was gonna.

Say, because I feel like double booking is your time.

Yeah.

Yeah, that one hit me hard.

Maybe I didn't even realize.

How was that me?

No, I think.

Sorry.

I think the not finding a replacement is your biggest one, you know?

Yeah.

So they're probably.

They're pretty close.

It's a pretty one beam right now.

So, Dirky, I gotta ask you something real quick while we're on the air.

Sure.

You busy tomorrow at one?

Why?

Oh, yeah, I'm just joking, obviously.

No, no, don't tell me.

Pretty quickly.

Oh, are you busy?

Because that's what people do.

They go, why?

And then you go, but are you busy or are you not busy?

Okay, different question.

Are you available tomorrow at one?

It depends for what, though.

No, I'm just joking.

I'm messing with you.

But in reality, if you needed to know and if we weren't on the air, you would just quickly check your calendar.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so that was just a quick segue, because I'm learning how to do this podcasting a little bit better at a time.

And this is number five.

And I thought number four hurt me until I got to this one.

And really, you know what?

This is annoying as hell.

Am I allowed to say hell?

I'm just.

Yeah.

Wow.

Am I allowed to say hell?

I'm pretty sure that's as far as.

Only if you want to go there.

Whoa.

You meet me off air, Larry David.

So, number five.

Would be let.

And you're familiar with this one even as.

Yeah, easy thing is.

Let me check my schedule and get back to you.

Yeah.

How long should it take for someone to get back to you?

Just in real life?

Let's pretend that this isn't a music thing.

Let's pretend that this is just other parts of real life.

Reality.

15 minutes.

What do you say?

Depends if you're driving.

It depends if, like, what you're doing at the moment.

You're asked, yeah, but if you have access to your computer or phone, the answer should be fairly quickly.

Fair enough.

Or at the very least, you can say, sorry again, I thought that I'm talking when you're not, but we were talking at the same moment.

Or at the very least, you say, let me see.

I'll get back to you in 5 hours or whatever, but if you specify.

And you might forget to be like 7 hours.

Life right in the way.

Yeah.

Day tops.

I guess you're right.

Yeah.

But the point is, you get back to people, and it's not consistently a battle.

And here's what I'm gonna say to musicians.

It's not all you.

Some of you are great.

You're all great.

Some of you are great.

And it doesn't take that long to get back to someone.

Okay.

It should be a pretty quick thing.

See, you made Doriki sigh.

He was just like, yeah.

Why?

Why?

That one touched home.

That one touched home.

It's tough.

It is a tough one.

So this is a teaching moment.

Right.

We have a lot of fun here.

So these are just some things for you to consider.

And you might say, you know what?

I do that no one cares.

It doesn't bother anyone.

It's just me or it's just Anthony, or it's just Matt.

But no, you know, it's a courtesy thing.

So these are just a few tips to just be a little bit more professional as a musician.

You're a really creative, talented guy.

Or gal or non binary.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Or Larry David, now that you identify.

Larry David.

Yeah.

My new identity.

Yeah.

My pronouns are Oy and Vay.

Oy and vay.

That's funny.

Yeah.

So if this didn't help anybody else, to be honest, it helps me.

I feel a little bit better now.

I'll probably sleep like a baby tonight.

This might be the reason why I haven't been sleeping, actually.

So you have to get this off.

Your chest on behalf of all this nonsense.

Thank you.

Can I add a number six?

Absolutely.

We can keep going.

Engineers, too.

But let's talk about musicians.

Musicians that don't know their place.

Oh, you have to break that down.

Um, when a rhythm guitarist think they're a lead guitarist or that they feel like they could showcase themselves better at a certain part.

When it's not about them, it's about the vocals or the song.

It's about the song, really.

Right.

Or.

Yeah.

Drummers, and I've been very guilty of this myself.

Drummers that just play too many fills that don't fit because they believe that it showcases their skills better.

Even though the audience doesn't understand which chops are.

They just know, tight or not.

You know, that's true.

It's a feeling.

And they're not supposed to do that.

Or, you know, backup vocalists that have too many trills and lines when they know that they.

The best way to serve the song is to be a backing, a backdrop to the lead vocals, things like that, you know?

Yikes.

Oof.

No, I agree with you.

I'm gonna be honest.

Don't overstep your boundaries.

It's just stay in your lane, and.

It'S not about a power thing.

It's about.

I agree.

It's about the art.

It's about the music, about putting on a show.

It's about entertainment, harmony.

Yeah, but at the same time, I think there's something to be said about, like, busting balls when someone isn't doing it, you know?

True.

Being, like, you're doing too much.

Stop that.

Don't be a dick.

That's always a weird one, too.

Like, do you guys, like, is that the musical director's job to kind of rein that in?

Or, like, have you ever, either of you experienced the time where you could have, you know, told another musician, like, hey, just settle down there, superstar?

Yeah, I guess it does come down to the music director, if there is one in place for the.

Whatever it is.

But, yeah, yeah, it's definitely something that has to come up time to time, unfortunately.

What about in a band, Matt?

You know, in my particular band, we're very close friends that have known each other for a very long time, and we've all discovered our favorite bands together at the same time, and we've so.

And we're all interested in multiple instruments, so for us, it's never been like that.

Okay, luckily.

Luckily.

But I can tell you that it's hard to find other people to play with.

I feel like not just playing with those two guys sometimes, you know?

And it's because people bring their egos and people bring whatever other baggage.

But I've definitely worked with bands where you just have drama, things happening like that, where musicians.

One musician wants this line in there and the other one doesn't, and they actually, like, fight about it like kids.

It's a little silly.

Yeah.

And I would understand that if somebody had, like, an artistic vision that was being trampled.

But these can be small differences that really are just about.

I want to be right.

I want you to be wrong.

Yeah, yeah.

That's not really the place for it.

No, no, I hear that.

Yeah, that's a big one, actually.

I was trying to intentionally, but I looked.

Looks like I kept it more to the, like, professionalism and admin side and you.

And hit him right in the heart, what you do.

Creativity.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's also a business thing, right?

Like drummers.

You're a rhythm machine.

That's what you're hired for.

Keep the time.

That's your business.

Groove.

Yeah.

Unless Anthony the MD looks at you and goes, Phil, and then you go.

Do a little more.

Yeah, you'd be listening on my topic.

Do you have one?

No, I don't, unfortunately.

I think you guys had a sweet list, and I don't really have much to add to that.

So you busy tomorrow?

One?

I'm not.

I thought you were gonna offer him to do a pod.

Oh, because you don't want to do them in the evening, that's why.

That's misunderstood.

Oh, gotcha.

And you were just giving an example.

That was just the perfect time.

When we finish our service.

Makes sense.

Makes sense.

Yeah, it could have been that.

That was a great list, though, Anthony.

And I appreciate you sharing that with us and everyone listening.

I think maybe we should try and do some more lists and break them down.

Not all the time, but I'd appreciate some more lists.

Like, I think Matt maybe like studio etiquette and just kind of like some things that you hate, you know?

Sure.

Suspense.

I want to hear them now.

Yeah, that would be a fun one.

I'm sure we could come up with.

Some other cool ideas and we can make a version for home studios too.

Those work differently.

That's interesting.

Yeah, very good.

Very good.

Before we go, I did another podcast while you were gone, Matt, and we talked about something that me and Anthony kind of were really not ignorant on, but we just don't really know much about.

And I was always curious.

Cause I know you know a lot about basically everything.

Yeah, you just have knowledge on everything.

And I wondered how sharp your music, your canadian music knowledge is.

Specifically.

Your black canadian music knowledge.

More specific.

Probably not.

Depends on.

And we're going historically.

We're going pre what?

Pre ninety's what we're saying or what?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pre ninety's would be a good start.

Probably not.

That's when I started.

Great.

Pre ninety's black canadian music, Matt.

Go.

What?

What do you got?

What's the query search for?

I think I'm done at the nineties.

I think I got Shaggy.

Like, I'd have to think pretty hard.

Wait, Shaggy's not even canadian.

Yes, he is.

He got, Shaggy's not canadian.

What?

Like, yes, he is.

He born in Canada.

Mocha.

Only.

Shaggy isn't canadian.

That's somebody.

Oh, Drake is looking it up.

Yeah.

My only example is Shaggy, and he's not even canadian.

He's heavy in the canadian market.

I don't know if he's.

I'm not sure that's a good, good impression.

But yeah, we were kind of the same way.

So me and Anthony were gonna see if you knew anything.

You could drop some, like, knowledge on us or a good place to start, but nobody knows, you mean, you probably know Oscar Peterson, right?

I was just gonna say Oscar Peterson, but does that even count?

Like, that's a legend.

Yeah, yeah, this is just from.

That's kind of.

Me and Anthony got stuck at was like, damn.

And then we found a weird list of, like, people that we didn't even think were really worth mentioning yet in terms of just canadian music legacy.

But I mean, I appreciated the list regardless.

But, yeah, we just wanted to see what you knew.

And I think in the upcoming podcast, we're probably going to start really digging deeper into, like you guys said, pre ninety's anything.

Maybe even start with the eighties and go back.

Let's do it.

Really curious into finding out a little bit more on that, the history of black music in Canada.

And I think at the same time, you could even drop some jewish knowledge on us and go a little bit deeper, for sure, you know, that culture and their historical music as well.

I think up until like, since World War two and up until somewhat recently, anything like America was where it was at the culturally.

Right, everybody?

And I think it was especially extra hard for black people in Canada to be taken seriously when, like, the cradle of modern music is just south of their border.

So I feel like nobody wanted to invest.

But now, even when you're scrolling through TikTok, you're hearing like, russian music and music from everywhere.

America is no longer in the lead, in a sense.

You don't think they're in the lead?

Well, sorry, I shouldn't say that.

America's people are catching up.

I think people are catching up, catching up.

And even so, for a long time, we're going to hear the vestiges.

Like, if you listen to K pop, which is a totally different thing, but if you really break down K pop, it's all american music.

Yep.

It's drums, guitar, you know, major minor scales, and like, european american music that has gone through the mill and now ended up in.

In the east, and now they're doing something totally different with it.

But the point is, I don't think K pop would have been popular in the eighties without the Internet.

And with America having more of a stronghold on the free world, quote unquote, I don't know if I'm getting out there, but it feels like canadian music now.

Like, do you think it's a coincidence that so much canadian music is big now in the world?

I don't think it's a coincidence, but I think when you find a giant superstar like a Drake, I think he opened up people's willingness to give canadian artists more of a chance.

And I think that you get that when you get any big artists, they always tend to bring a couple others around.

Like when the UK has a little run, you get some other big uk artists that get to come cross over into North America.

That's my opinion.

I might be wrong, but it wasn't.

Just Drake, it was Bieber.

Right, yes, exactly.

Sorry.

Of course.

And that was kind of before Drake.

Right.

And the weekend.

Yeah, yeah, the weekend came through Drake.

But it's.

I just think people are more open to not american music now.

Absolutely.

And I think the Internet obviously was a catalyst for that, you know?

Yeah, that makes sense.

Open the doors.

Yeah.

That's kind of bewildering that none of us can really think of.

I mean, I'm an immigrant, whatever.

But you guys can't even think of artists from the nineties.

I guess it just.

Yeah.

What did they do?

No, we can.

The nineties, it's like eighties.

Yeah.

Well maybe we need to talk to someone who's a little bit older than us and see Alan Cross.

That's a great place to start.

Alan Cross?

Yeah.

Only he'd be a great one.

Yeah, I'm sure he'll know some.

Some gems.

Yeah, he could definitely rock, but sorry.

I'm sure he could steer us in the right direction.

Like he has a plethora of knowledge even.

At least be able to name drop Mister Alper.

I'm sure he'll have some.

That guy too.

Yeah, actually, yeah.

Better.

Could we get better both on Mister Cross?

Of course.

Interesting conversation.

Yeah.

If anyone could do it.

I believe you could, to be honest.

But that would be an interesting conversation.

I wouldn't.

Tell you what, I want to hear them talk.

Let's do this.

All right.

Let me go to sleep.

Okay.

If I dream it, I'll wake up in the morning and I'll email them both like a three way call.

Email.

You're crazy.

You're crazy, girl.

We have a disease.

Yeah, only me and Matt.

Me and Matt.

Get it?

No, I know you won't get an if you could.

You're a smart man.

That's it.

Crazy man.

But you said you crazy girl.

Who's Jay Martin?

Remember that?

Yeah.

How's he been?

Shout out to Jay in the radio.

Waves and things like that.

Maybe he knows.

How old is Jay Martin?

Ten years old than me, I guess we'll just.

Let's just ask everybody.

Ask everybody.

And then when we.

In a couple of weeks, we'll get back together and we'll revisit this conversation.

White, black, just jump to anybody on the street and be like, name a black artist from Canada from the eighties.

Go.

And watch them go.

Just like me and Anthony went, like, Americans.

When you ask them about Canada.

Exactly.

Y'all live in igloos.

Yeah, unfortunately, we went to visit someone in Washington, and they genuinely thought that.

And they also thought that we bathed in, like, evian water.

Like, he's drinking Evian.

He's like, y'all bathe in this, don't you?

And I'm like, what?

Where did that come from?

In California, they asked me legitimately if we hunt our own food.

Yeah.

Wow.

It just like, yeah.

Who are we?

Some of the things they genuinely believe, like, the aboot thing was really weird, too, because they were like, why don't you say aboot?

And I'm like, nobody says aboot.

I don't know.

Anyone says aboot.

They say aboot.

Abo.

There's, like an o.

They were saying aboot.

And I was like, I don't know.

Anyone says aboot.

Get out of here.

Some aboot to punch you in your mouth.

Well, on that note, Anthony's literally, look at Anthony.

You're about to melt out of your chest.

Eyes are getting close.

Anthony's sleep potting right now.

I'm gonna wake up in the morning.

I'll be like, wait, did we talk about the list?

Was that real or was that a dream?

It was real.

You'll have to wait a couple weeks to hear when it's released.

Gentlemen, enjoy your night.

Anthony, get some rest.

Thank you, guys, for listening to another episode.

Until next time, good night.

Sweet dreams.

Bodybuilder.

Summer sausages.

Summer sausages need rest, too.

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