Join Terry Cook and a panel of six esteemed driving instructors as they dive into crucial discussions about the psychological aspects of driving and the challenges faced by new drivers.

The conversation kicks off with an exploration of how instructors can help young learners build confidence and manage stress while navigating the roads. As they tackle a range of thought-provoking questions sent in by Dr. Elizabeth Box, the panel emphasizes the importance of relationship-building and understanding the unique needs of each learner.

The episode highlights the significant role of instructors in preparing students for real-world driving situations, particularly concerning risks associated with peer passengers and late-night driving. With a blend of humour and practical advice, this lively discussion aims to empower instructors and enhance the overall learning experience for new drivers.

For more information on The Instructor Podcast visit https://www.theinstructorpodcast.com/

In this edition of Six 4 Sixty, the questions were submitted by Dr Liz Box, and therefore pose a slightly different challenge to our ADI Avengers:

• Neil Wightman
• Phil Cowley
• Emma Cottington
• Chris Bensted
• Lee Spary
• Bob Morton

You can find the DriveFit resource mentioned in the show here.

For additional content and exclusive discounts, be sure to check out our Premium subscription - Here you'll find lots of extra content, including:

• Episodes on the Standards check and how to break down each individual competency so you're fully aware of what to expect, how to prepare, and how to perform.
• Exclusive shows with industry leaders including Bob Morton, San Harper, and Kev & Tracey Field.
• Live 'Expert Sessions' on industry-specific topics including; How to teach roundabouts.
• As a member, you'll also receive exclusive discounts for GoRoadie Pro, Client Centred learning training, The ADI/PDI Doctor, and The Guild of Mindful Driver Trainers.

The Instructor Podcast uses a variety of social media channels, including a Facebook group. You can join the group or follow us on the following platforms:

• Facebook
• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram
• YouTube
• And be sure to check out the DITC

Takeaways:

• The psychological aspects of driving education are crucial for building confidence in students.
• Instructors should create an engaging environment that encourages students to ask questions.
• Maintaining a balance between teaching and allowing students to experience challenges is important.
• Parents can play a significant role in their teens' driving education by supporting practice.
• Instructors must stay informed about driving laws and regulations to educate their students effectively.
• Having a network of fellow instructors helps in sharing best practices and staying motivated.

The instructor podcast with Terry Cook.

Talking with leaders, innovators, experts in game changers about what drives them.

Welcome to Instructor podcast six for 60 edition.

As always, I am your mediocre host, Terry Cook.

I'm delighted to be even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because we are back with another edition of the six for 60, where I am joined by six of the best trainers in all the land.

And they are Neil Whiteman, Phil Cowley, Emma Cottington, Chris Benstead, Lee Sperry, and Bob Martin.

Now, I will ask a question, and then they will each have a maximum of 60 seconds to answer.

But these aren't just any ordinary questions.

Doctor Elizabeth Box was kind enough to send in seven questions and I've opted to ask them all.

So a big thank you to doctor box for sending those in.

But just before we begin, allow me to point you in the direction of the instructor podcast website.

Over there you can find loads of free resources, you can find information on how to sign up for the instructor podcast premium, and you can find links to join the newsletter and WhatsApp channels.

That's at www.theinstructorpodcast.com.

but for now, let's get stuck into the show.

So today I am joined by six of the best trainers in all the land, four of whom are paid up members of the instructor podcast premium, the other two.

Well, whatever.

Let's move on.

As always, I like to start with a nice no context question, and I was struggling for one today, and then I realized who the first person I was going to ask a question to was.

And that helped me, because today's question is, what score would you get if you took a part one test today?

So, if you took a part one theory test today, what score would you get?

So, Christ, Ben Steed, what score would you get if you took a part one theory test today?

One of the rare occasions I'm going to say that I'd get full marks, which is 100.

Just to be clear, Neil, what score would you get?

I think I'd get about 98.

Just air on the safe side, Bob.

100.

And I can only say that really because I used to sit them all the time as head of training at.

LDC, constantly test myself, no context questioned.

Phil, I'm going to go for 100 as well, because every time I've taken it, I've done 100.

So I'm going for that.

Lee?

I think I get 100.

Unless I got some wrong.

I think that math works out.

And, Emma, I'm going to go for 96.

I'm going to drop one in each.

Okay.

Intrigued by those answers, but let's move on to the proper ones, because hopefully I mentioned this in the intro to the show, but all these questions were sent in by doctor Elizabeth park.

So actually, proper questions, not the normal nonsense that I do.

And we're starting off with you, Chris.

So the first question is going to be, how do you address the psychological aspects of driving with your students, such as building confidence and handling stress on the road?

How do you address the psychological aspects of driving with your students, such as building confidence and handling stress on the road?

Christopher?

They have to put up with me.

I think that's the bit where we've got to be there for a reason.

So at the beginning, you're telling what the pedals do, you talk all that boring stuff.

You're letting them get the experiential thing.

You just make sure they don't crash.

And then the development of that relationship is where I tried to support.

I tried to support that independence coming through and everything else.

But in doing so, I then try and what my business partner calls throw in a hand grenade.

And by doing that, if they can cope with me, then they can probably cope with all of the other stuff going on.

And then just make sure they get enough experience.

And there's never enough experience, so you just push the boat out and try and make it fun and interesting.

And I think there's a danger sometimes we make them too confident.

That's why they go and crash.

I think that I would agree that if they can cope with you, they can cope with anything.

And having done several podcasts with you, I'll attest to that.

Neil, we're coming to you next.

How would you address the psychological aspects of driving with your students, such as building confidence and handling stress on the road?

Okay, so I'd just like to be myself with them and introduce them into the different levels of the GDE, to be quite honest.

Keep putting different scenarios in there, see how they react to it.

And if they start to get flustered, make it more difficult.

And it's just generally just going down.

The levels of the GDE start at the top and work down rather than working from the bottom up.

And it's.

It's just generally just making the situations for them, you know, background of a fireman.

I love emergency vehicles, especially on lessons, when they really start to panic.

So just putting things like that into it, that's all excellent.

So we're coming to you next, Bob.

I think having some of us have always tackled bits and pieces of this, you know, like when they've done something.

Well, that was great, that.

How would you do that in the dark?

How would you do that in the rain?

It's for me now it's about creating scenarios, you know, almost little case studies.

Okay, so let's assume you pass your test, you're on the road, you're on your own, you've got your car, you've got your mates in the back, you want to drive fast.

Tell me about it.

How's that going to work?

Tell me about the decision making process.

What if your friends are trying to get you to go faster than you're comfortable with?

What would you say?

How would you handle that?

What's your options?

And get them to think through in these different scenarios, all the different options that are available to them and let them know that there isn't just one way of doing it.

You haven't got to succumb to that pressure.

And you're not going to look at dick if you don't.

You're not going to look at dick if you don't.

There we go.

Never look a dick in the eye.

Phil, same question to you.

You can't say that and then send it over to me.

I wasn't looking at you.

It's fine.

Be a good coach is my answer to this.

And so I would say, yeah, just become better at coaching.

Create an environment in the car where the pupils coming up with their own solutions and tackling these challenges in a way that they can continue learning post test.

I would also suggest for things like stress and anxiety, I tend to use quite a lot of the techniques from confident drivers and have conversations with pupils about how they're dealing with that stress and anxiety and breathing techniques.

I think also creating a teamwork environment in the car as well.

So the pupils are going to feel part of the team trying to create this driving.

And I think language is really important as well, how they.

How they describe what they're doing.

So not using words like anxious, scared, worried, and changing how they talk about the roundabout or anything like that.

Okay, so how do you address psychological aspects of driving with your students, such as building confidence and handling stress on the road?

Lee, I think there's a growing discrimination in the industry towards young drivers.

I'm sure you've all seen it online, like, they're much more panicky these days.

They lack confidence.

They can't handle it like they used to.

Mommy's got a book, his lessons, blah, blah, blah.

And I don't think it's on I think if you think like that, you're probably in the wrong job.

And I don't think it should surprise anyone that the kids are like they are, because, you know, these are the COVID kids who couldn't go to school and couldn't develop social skills.

And if you look at the generation that raised our generation, you know, our parents produce resilient kids because they had to tolerate stuff like racism and misogyny and all that stuff.

But the parents of these 17 year old kids, now, they can't tolerate wheat.

So it's not a surprise.

But if we handle them, if we have to handle them differently to how we were handled, and we've got to find out how they like to learn and build them up brick by brick and not have much too much on their plate and empathize with them.

All right, so, finally, Emma, same question to you.

I put my counselor hat on to answer this, I think.

So, for me, this is about me building the relationship from day one, because I want to know what the confidence and stress levels are like in life, not just in the car.

So I want to know what their map of the world is.

So I want to know what their map looks like before they've got to me.

So if I can figure out what their confidence levels are in other sort of scenarios in their life and what their stress levels are like in other sources of their life, then I can then apply that by tapping into their world.

And how does their world apply to driving?

What's that going to look like, and how would that affect the confidence and stress levels as an entrance level into driving, and then build on adding in the stress values from the GDE, adding in the nighttime driving, the driving in the rain, and things like that.

But I want to know about them first.

There you go.

Speaking of stress, I'm just in a.

Note, Terry, just as a.

Just a little sidebar here, that if you'd asked me that question 35 years ago as I entered the industry, I'd be saying, what a lot of new aid, new world, bloody tosh.

There's bloody stupidity.

I'm just here to teach people to drive.

So if you're sat listening to this and you think that you need to evolve and become educated about it like.

I did, that was my b answer.

Are you saying that new instructors and new trainers aren't as good as experienced trainers?

No, I would never say something like that.

I will also mention that.

No pressure to you guys, but I will be sending this podcast to doctor box, and she'll be ranking you in all order of how well you did.

So, you know, brilliant.

I'll let you read into that what you will.

So let's move on to question two.

How do you coach your students to handle distractions while driving, such as mobile phones or passengers?

How do you coach your students to handle distractions while driving, such as mobile phones or passengers?

And we starting with you, Neil.

Okay, so I love to get people in the car as well, extra people, mates, whatever, you know, put them in them sort of situations.

I love putting a radio on and turning it up as loud as I possibly can and see how they can control that and just generally doing lots and lots of things like that.

Really, it's.

The more we can put into it, the more that more distractions that we can offer them is the better driver they're going to be or hopefully try and put in turning a radio up in a really complex junction, get some laughs at us and it gets quite airy at sometimes, but yeah, no, it's just putting things in that we would do normally or wouldn't do normally.

No, just imagining Neil coming bombing past me on the last knobby snoop Dogg blaring out at windows as he going past.

So, Bob, you're next.

How do you coach your students handle distractions while driving?

I think very similar to what Neil said, that they have to experience it because everybody thinks that that sort of stuff happens to somebody else.

Although not me, I'm a good driver, me.

That's these other idiots that get distracted and cause accidents.

Everybody thinks that they're sort of immune to it.

And it's not until you discover that it can happen to you that, you know, when you have, you know, you start riding motorbikes, you learn very quickly about distraction because it's much more important there because you can lose it a lot quicker.

So I think it's.

It's not just discussing it, but actually putting them in situations.

So you've got to go somewhere safe and then start cracking the radio up, talking to them loads and loads and loads and then discuss afterwards, how were you feeling then?

Did you start to feel a bit flustered?

You looked a bit flustered, yeah.

What other situations could you think of where that could happen to you?

Because you've already seen it does happen because if you talk to them about it, perhaps happening to them would go, nah, not me, mate, no.

Excellent.

And same question, Phil.

Yeah, so I'm going to echo both of those answers in that you have to experience it.

Like, that's how we learn is by experiencing things same thing.

Get friends in the car, be their annoying passenger.

Like this.

Tunes, banging, boom, off we go.

I sometimes play like games where we're like naming movies through the Alphabet and because I guess their mind working and can be distracting again and we assess how that affected their driving.

I think also here I want to have conversations with them about post test.

How are they going to then avoid getting in those scenarios as well.

So I talked to them about marshmallow decisions, which I do not have time to explain.

Come and look at our workshop or google it and how they can make safe decisions that will prevent them getting into these scenarios.

So the biggest one I always use is putting your phone into driving mode is a marshmallow decision because it's making a safe decision now so that you don't have the temptation to make a poor decision later.

Bill wins the award for first plug, first self promotion.

Lee, same question, kind of what Bill.

Just said really in terms of like building habits.

And we can kind of build understanding through conversations as well, you know, primarily around risk.

And like Phil said, you know, when they first get in the car, I'd say, you know, put the, put their phones, both of your phones, your phone and their phone into the glovebox.

And at the end of the lesson, get the phones out and so they're out of arms reach and it's normal.

And you build that habit.

You know, it's so tempting to pick up your phone when you're sat at a light or in crawling traffic for them.

So like Phil said, if you utilize driving mode, they're not going to hear those tempting notifications, they're not going to see them because they're in the glove box.

And if you remove the temptation, you're going to remove the problem.

And I think sort of day to day, you know, we need to build in examples into conversations when discussing risks.

So, for example, if we're looking at, you know, someone that's breaking or slowing down without breaking, we can bring in that conversation about, you know, if the guy was behind you and he was on his phone, would he have seen that flash of red from you?

No, he wouldn't.

And it kind of kills the two birds.

With 1 st, I've had to stop.

Putting my students phone in the glove box because I genuinely got sick of having to drive back to their house to give them their phone back.

But a sensible person will be able to do it.

Emma, how do you coach your students to handle distractions while driving?

Similar to what the other guys have said, exposure as much as possible.

Where we can, you know, and put that in place.

I'm lucky that I regularly have pdis out with us, so.

And they don't sit in the back of my car quiet.

I have conversations with the PDI why the learners are driving, so that they get used to people having a conversation in the car and things like that.

I suppose that could be done with like friends and family as well if you wanted to make that scenario.

The other thing as well I tend to do is get them driving independently from as early as possible.

So get them route planning from doing junctions lessons at the beginning, get them figuring out what the route is, get them following a route so that they're not reliant on you giving directions from early on.

And they're having to forward plan and think for themselves as well as getting the basics.

If they're doing it from the beginning, they're used to that level of building blocks from as early as possible, not waiting till they're ready to be independent and then do an independent drive.

There's a lot of timers being filled there.

I'm enjoying this one and we're coming to you, Chris, for the same question.

I think I'm probably going to go against what Lee said about putting things in the glove box and that sort of things because if you remove the opportunity for the distraction, then we're not allowing them to make those choices.

So I think we need to get the balance right.

And 99% of our pupils are going to be using their phone as a sat nav or they're going to be using it for listening to music.

They don't listen to the radio anymore.

Everyone listens to Spotify or other providers are available.

So I think actually keeping the distractions and then allowing it to become a learning moment is better than removing them.

So I think it's taking those opportunities.

I also do magic, so pick a card as we're going towards the junction is one of my favorites, that kind of thing, because it's those moments of oh, look at that.

When they need to be paying attention.

None of you mentioned on the move high fives, which is I would have enjoyed.

But I will also say no one listens to the radio.

The Taylor Swift has her own radio station.

When I offer that to my students, they bite my hand off and it's usually 30 year old blokes, which is amazing.

But either way, let's move on to the next question.

So on to question three.

How can parents be active participants in their teens driver training?

And what resources or practices can they utilize to provide optimal support.

So how can parents be active participants in their teens driving?

We're starting with you, Bob.

It's something I've always encouraged and it's, it's useful for so many different reasons.

One of the big things, if you're practicing for your standards, check because it puts pressure on you.

But right from the get go, I'm a big believer in contracting.

So we talk about, okay, who's involved in this?

Are you going to practice with a woman, dad?

Dad says when I've got the basics, he'll take me out.

At LDC, they have a driving skilled workbook which was originally designed to help parents teach their kids to drive.

So we use it for the instructors now.

So it helps mom, dad, brother, sister, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife to sit next to the person and know that they're not teaching them bad habits.

So I encourage it big time.

Excellent.

And, Phil, how can parents be active participants in their teens driver training?

So I think obviously they can help with, like, private practice.

And I actually don't think I would advise them too much because I think they do a pretty decent job of letting them be independent and by potentially doing a bad job.

So I'm okay with that.

Just let them be independent and have some time in the car.

I am actually currently writing a parents guide for, for my driving skill.

But it's more about how do you keep them safe post test.

And I remember you had an episode on your podcast with Sharon and her daughter Caitlin had died.

And the thing that hit me was she said, if I knew now what I like, no, I wouldn't have let my daughter get in that car.

And that's what I want to write the book for, because I want them to know now what they need to know.

And so I think knowing, knowing the facts, knowing how they can help keep their kids safe post test, I think is part of our job to kind of educate parents.

And for anyone listening, that was season seven, episode four, I think it was with Sharon Huddleston.

So definitely go and check that out.

Don't know how you do that.

I know the season.

I don't always know the episode, but I've usually got a rough idea.

Yeah, we're coming to you with the same question, Lee.

Yeah, I think it's a really good idea.

I think, like instructors, though, I think parents need to have the right mindset.

Like has just been said there parents might be thinking about.

It's all about the test.

They're thinking about test routes as well.

And we need to try and change that for it to work really well.

You know, as we know, they're already pretty good at doing our job, and they prove that during the lockdowns, they know how the individual ticks, and they don't have all our amazing wisdom, so they're going to naturally encourage them to reflect a bit more and kind of, you know, learn and learn through reflection.

I think we can help them with resources and kind of practice scenarios in between lessons.

But would we all sort of take to that?

I'm not sure.

I think a lot of instructors still think it's a threat to the business, which is really silly, but it would help create more experienced road users for when they pass the test.

And surely it can only be a good thing.

Excellent.

And, Emma, what are your thoughts?

Slightly echoing something Lee's just picked up on there?

Like them, parents know those kids the best, so they know that that child's map of the world, and that's where we should be starting from, is trying to figure that as much of that out as we can.

And I think they've got that.

I think our part in that is making the parents aware of resources that they might not be aware of.

Like, do they know about safe driving for life on the website?

Do they know about the honest truth?

Do they know that there's these things available to their child that's going to help them and their child when they're learning to drive?

And I think that's our responsibility to just cause we know it, not assume that they all know it as well because the chances are that they don't.

And I think that needs to be something that we're responsible for is, you know, actively going.

Here's a list of all of the things that we think are going to help while you're going to be on the road with your child to help them.

Excellent.

And, Chris, how can parents be active participants in their teens driver training?

We know that a lot of driving habits come from parents.

So the first thing I always encourage is mock testing the parents if they're going to take them out and do private practice, because you can pick up on the faults before they start, and that way you get an opportunity to educate and you can talk about the changes, about the way that we approach things differently and the differences in driving and that kind of thing.

I think that engagement is really important.

I also think, and it's also a business skill, and I was criticized on Facebook about it this week, is getting out the car and going and knocking on the door and actually talking to the parents in the first place because too many people just send a text message saying, I'm here.

We don't get enough exercise as it is.

So if you can't make your Adi walk back, then you should get out the car and go and knock on your pupil's door when you go and greet them because you might get an opportunity to have a chat.

We're happy to take the money but we won't always engage in the conversation.

I think that's two one plugs now, Phil.

Two Chris Warner.

That's free.

It's still the old thing.

Neil, what have you got to add?

Yeah, I think along the same lines as most of the people.

I encourage parents to sit in the back for numerous amount of reasons because one, they're going to learn a bit of theory as well.

Probably down the line.

They're going to learn tactics to help the pupil learn as well.

But it also encourages them to get out there and take the kids out and give them that road experience because there's nothing worse than just 1 hour a week and doing nothing else in between, because that creates, I don't know, frustrations with a student sometimes, but it's just that two way street and I believe it needs to be a two way street whilst they're learning that they need encouragement from both of us, you know, the parents and the instructor.

And like Chris said, it's good to get out and talk to the parents as well.

Good stuff.

And because it's doctor box that sent these questions in, I think I will take the opportunity to mention that one great resource you can share with your students and your parents is dryfit, which can be found on the RoadsafetyGB website.

I'll include a link in the show notes, but let's move on to question four.

This one is, in your opinion, what are the key qualities that make an excellent driving instructor and how can aspiring instructors develop these qualities?

Fill curiosity and a growth mindset is my answer.

I think curiosity from a point of view of so that you're nothing, closed minded and you're always curious about new things within the industry and new ways of working it out, but also so you're curious about your pupils and have that genuine belief that they have the answers within them and you're curious for their answers.

So I think curiosity's key and then that growth mindset is because you never stop learning and I think the day you decided to stop doing that, then you may as well quit.

So I think always having this mindset that we are trying to improve ourselves as we go through the industry.

So it isn't just about how many years you've done it, it's how well you've developed during those years.

Excellent.

So, Lee, in your opinion, what are the key qualities that make an excellent driving instructor, and how can aspiring instructors develop these qualities?

I think it's someone that, for a first and foremost, can see beyond the driving test and think beyond these minimum standards and think beyond the standards check and its triggers.

Someone who can develop attitudes and create thoughts as well as skills in people, someone that creates a learning environment, who can empower people to make their own decisions and reflect so they can learn.

A lot of people will say it's the DVSA's fault for the fact that we saw test focused, but it's just an excuse.

If you're going to go out of your way to build this ultimate driver, someone that thinks, someone that can make their own decisions when the pressure's on, then that's going to do wonders for the safety as well, because, you know, there'll be like has been said today, we're already talking about what if you're late for work, or what if you've got mates in the car and how would you deal with it?

And if we create that, we've got something far superior as an end product than that minimum standard test, which in turn will mean that you don't affect your triggers and you're not going to get a standards check.

So make today about your learner, not about.

Are you making me happy, Emma?

What other.

Hold on, one question.

Yes, Emma, in your opinion, what are the key qualities that make an excellent driving instructor and how can aspiring instructors develop these qualities?

I think the first thing is to recognise that you're both human, you and them.

I think there's got to be a level of empathy about what we do, recognizing that the human that we're dealing with is not the same as the one that we had the hour before or the one that's going to get in the car the hour after, and then our own sort of self awareness and regulation.

Humble enough to know that there's always people to learn from or places to learn from whilst you're developing, to strive to be the best yourself so that you can transfer those skills and have that relationship with the person who's in your car.

So, yeah, motivation and managing relationships.

Excellent.

And Chris, I think that the most important thing is establishing what excellent is for you, because we've all got different views of it and most of the loudest voices in the industry tend to be the ones that are talking about skills for improving your pupils and developing them.

But it starts with you.

And there's a quote that I'm going to mess up, which is something about knowledge is knowing other people and wisdom is knowing yourself.

So I think if you start with that, figure out what you think excellent is and then look at, you know, be really reflective and try and figure out how to develop that and work towards it, that might change along the way.

And if it does, that's fine.

You can then change the direction.

So it's not wrong to make loads of money.

It's also not wrong to focus on road safety, decide what's right for you and then develop it to be the best that you can in that area and then you can expand other areas.

Neil, in your opinion, what are the key qualities that make an excellent driving instructor, and how can aspiring instructors develop these qualities?

Yeah, I'm thinking along the same sort of lines as the other guys, but I think it's creating an environment in the car where they're not scared to make a mistake.

And once they've made a mistake, it's like Phil says, it's just be really, really curious and keep digging, digging and digging it down into what the error is and making them think about what that is.

I very much like the fact that a growth mindset will transfer to the pupil as well and they'll be more inclined to learn more.

And it's not being afraid to say that you're in the wrong sometimes because a lot of instructors are scared to admit they're in the wrong.

And I think that shows the human side in the person if they're prepared to make a mistake and then admit they're wrong.

Do you know what?

I'm not putting the video out for this, but sometimes it's such lovely sometimes when one of you will say, all of the five of you starting all day long, I don't know, it's just such a nice moment when it happens.

But yes, we're going to you, Bob, what are your thoughts on this?

Well, I think you have to like people.

You have to be interested in road safety and I think you have to be the sort of person who helps other people grow.

Traditional instruction was telling people about all the mistakes they've made and that's belittling people.

So we need to be able to create a relationship with our learners that's honest.

We need to exhibit humility before those that we're trying to help.

We've got to know more than those that we're trying to help.

But showing constantly that, you know, more doesn't really help.

And I think, above everything else, you must be able to have an unconditional, positive regard for the person sat next to you.

And can I point out, I'm the only one who's not reached the timer yet.

Well, some nod in there, but also you've got the bonus of making Chris shake his head at the start.

So that's another win.

But I'm going to chip in money, actually.

And obviously, I don't usually use it to you guys, but I'm going to say, not throwing tantrums on Facebook and making sweeping outlandish statements that ostracize people and make them feel bad about themselves, that's never a good way to go.

So I think we can avoid that.

That is also a good thing.

So let's move on to question five.

So we'll be coming to you first for this one.

Lee, what are the biggest challenges faced by driving instructors and how do we overcome them?

Well, without the obvious DVSA related ones, I'd say the biggest challenge is motivation, especially if you're, you know, if you're new in the industry and you've come from employment, you know, not having a boss to shout at you, not fearing being sacked, you can get complacent very quickly and you can believe your own hype, but who motivates them all to the amount of assessment we actually get versus the amount of hours we do is very low.

So we're on our own majority of the time, as much as we couldn't cry any harder about standards check.

But the reality is we're never watched, very rarely.

And that's why CPD is such a massive thing.

But if you don't keep learning, you don't improve, and then things can go stale.

I was the same.

I lost my motivation because I'd done this for 15 years.

But now when I teach, learners is a rarity.

I love it.

So, yeah, just keep trying new things.

Emma, what are the biggest challenges faced by driving instructors and how do we overcome them?

I probably answer this in two words, and it's the noise.

There is so many people talking, so many people with opinions, so many people just talking at you.

I don't think I have ever had to use my breath work coaching and meditation coaching as much in my whole life as.

As this current day.

I think there is just so many people talking, and I think it's.

It's really hard to sift through what's right.

What's.

What's right for me, what's right for my pupils, what's right for my school.

And I'm just trying to stay grounded in those three things.

What's right for me, what's right for my students, what's right for my school, and that.

That's it.

But it's really, really difficult when you've got a lot of people talking and a lot of noise happening and like you've just said, a lot of people putting people down, not necessarily directly, but almost passively aggressively.

It's just noisy and.

Yeah, and welcome to the show where there's six of you all sharing opinions, making a lot of noise.

So go have a rest after this.

Chris, what are your thoughts on.

On the challenges faced by driving instructors?

I'm going to go with three words.

Loneliness, godliness and rigidness.

So I think loneliness, it can very easily be just you in a car.

So reach out and find a group of people, preferably not like minded, because it's better to be challenged and supported, but people that you get on with.

And my shaking of the head earlier was because I don't like people.

Sorry, Bob.

I like persons that's different.

Godliness is really easy to believe.

Your own B's.

So you can.

You can easily decide that everything you say is true and you could be spouting rubbish.

So again, get involved with other people and challenge it.

And rigidness is the issues from the likes of the waiting list and everything else.

When there's stuff that you cannot control and we haven't got the flexibility, having to find ways to work around that, they're the biggest challenges, I think, that we face as instructors.

Sorry that you have to deal with people like me.

Chris.

Neil, same question.

I think, you know, the normal ones, the challenges that DVSA throw in, but it's a lot of social media, like everybody's saying, there's comments out there that you don't really need to take any notice of.

It's just be yourself and you overcome them challenges quite easily if you just be yourself and deal with what you do rather than worry about what everybody else does.

Other than that, it's just like Chris says, it's lonely out there, but you find associations that can help you through or just share things and you can bounce off people and just use information the way you want to use it and not what others want to tell you.

I like that end line there, that one.

Good.

I'm going to steal that and get it out on social media before this goes out.

One of the biggest challenges faced by driving.

How do we overcome them, Bob?

I think echoing everything that's being said, referring back to something that Chris said about knowing yourself, there is such a lot of noise out there and there's more negativity than positivity.

So I think a really.

And it's especially difficult for brand new, qualified AdIs and people who are, you know, training to become.

So I think an ideal thing to do is to think to yourself, well, if I could reinvent what I'm doing here, like, if I have anything I wanted, what would it look like for me?

And make a list of this would be nirvana for me as an ADi and then look for resources that can help you to do that.

In that mindset, then you're constantly looking for solutions, whereas social media just constantly throws up problems.

15 left.

I know you're on fire today, Bob.

Because you upset me earlier.

I'm going to message you after to get you to a podcast, but it'll be the shortest podcast ever.

Now I'm going to have to leave it a few weeks.

Phil, what have you got to add to this?

Phil?

I think the thing that I get PDIs and AdIs asking me a lot about is managing pupil's expectations and people's wanting to go to test when they're not ready, whether that's because of the waiting list or just because of money.

So I think that a lot of people find that really challenging to manage their expectations and tell pupils they're not ready for test.

And the way I would overcome that is because I didn't like when I had a full diary of pupils, I never really had this issue as much.

And I think that's because you manage it from day one and you make it about being ready to drive, not ready to pass your driving test.

And if the pupil is constantly doing their own reflections and you're giving them honest feedback throughout the whole driving process, I do tend to find that doesn't happen at the end because it's not a surprise, you know, already, because you're having these conversations.

I think it can quite often come from when you're trying to be nice and you're saying, oh, it'll be all right, it'll be all right.

And then in the last minute you go, oh, actually, you know, you can't do your test.

That was perfectly timed.

I mean, I've loved all the monsters there.

I thought they were great.

And, yeah, I don't know what I'm going to do with that, but I think I need to find a way to collate all them together and get them out separately, because there's a lot of challenges being faced and I think you've covered a lot of them there.

But I will also just mention, how cool is it that Doctor Elizabeth Box asked us that question about the challenges faced by driving instructors?

Someone outside the industry asking.

That, I think is quite good.

But let's move on to the next question.

So we'll be coming to you first with this, Emma, and it's how do you stay up to date with the latest driving laws and regulations?

And how do you instruct jeepers?

Try again.

And how do you ensure your students are also informed?

Now, doctor Box didn't add this bit on, but I will because the DVSA won't.

Well, I think that's a great place to start.

I think sometimes we've got to dig for this stuff, you know, it's not necessarily landing in your lap, is it?

You know, so we've got to sometimes dig with this stuff.

I think staying up to date with sort of networking, I think, in a way, we're a very lonely job.

So if we sole traders in particular.

So I think it's making sure that you've got a network of people around you, you know, where to go and dig what resources you need to be tapping into.

Are there certain subscriptions that you want to be aware of or certain emails that you do want to give out that you're going to want the emails and the information from, you know, collating that?

And then I think then making sure that your learners are aware of it is making sure that you're having those conversations, maybe using like a messaging service, our social media, so that you're actually then putting those things out to your students as well.

Chris, how do you stay up to date with the latest driving laws and regulations and how do you ensure the students also stay informed?

You definitely need to make sure you're in touch with a trusted service of re sneezes that make sure the information is out there like the DITC.

I think I'm now winning.

So, no, I think the biggest thing is that it doesn't get shouted about well enough, it doesn't get communicated well enough.

So we have to make that effort to be in touch.

Don't get your information from tabloid headlines, Facebook or anyone that you happen to meet down the test centre.

Make sure it's factual.

Do your facts checking.

Don't just look at the line that's going to be in the highway code, look at the legislation and see what it actually means.

Not enough instructors do that.

And part of that is because it's not easy, it's not written very easily.

So if you can't do it yourself, then find someone that can.

The ditc dot co dot uk dot.

But an instructor I met at the test center recently told me that you're more likely to fail on a Friday.

Are you telling me this isn't like trusted information?

It would be statistically questionable.

Neil, how long do you stay up to date?

Loads and loads of CPD.

I'm big believer in it.

It needs to be mandatory.

People need to look elsewhere than just the I way code and things like that.

Look at stress, look at mindfulness, look at all different things and you can find some of that on the IMTD and it's all free, you know, on a Sunday morning.

So it's look at different things and get yourself a plan.

Make yourself a plan of where you're going to go through the year and how you're going to do it and what you need to look for that.

There is loads of CPD out there and you don't have to pay for a lot of it, but like they say, just keep away from all the social media side.

And Joe Bloggs told me this down the pub and whatever and all that.

Yeah.

It's just look for what you want and express it and then you can share it with your pupils.

If you know it and understand it, you'll share it with your pupils quite easily as well then.

Well, in the spirit of sharing important information, has the IMCD yet decided on their new badge?

Not yet.

Right, okay, keep us updated.

My coil spring for that one.

Who we got next?

Bob?

You can sign up to alerts from Gov dot UK.

Be very careful.

Don't ask me how I know that.

So you've got to just select what it is that you're after.

So, driving legislation changes to driving law changes that the DBSA are going to make.

So that's how I keep up to date with that.

If you can't be bothered to do that, then as Chris says, the DITC will do it for you for not much money outside of that, staying up to date with other things, you know, what's new.

And as Neil was saying, you know, have a.

Have a look at the things that are available to you.

Stuff that's outside or what's thought to be outside of our industry, you know, mindfulness coaching.

Becoming a better coach makes him a better or better rounded person, I think.

And I don't mean overweight.

Oh, dear.

Right.

Come pause myself.

Phil, go on.

I'm going to give another shout out to the DITC and if in doubt, I just message Chris saying what's going on.

I think also, I can't believe no one's not mentioned this, but also listen to the green room once a month because all the news is on there.

So they're my main reason ways to get the news.

I then would suggest that you should be posting this out to your learners on Facebook or resources via apps that you might have and so kind of like spreading the word.

I also do weekly meetings with my driving school team and so that they're up to date and then they can spread the word with their pupils.

So, yeah, go listen to the green room.

If only there was a regular contributor who had had 60 seconds to talk about ways they could discover this stuff.

Although to be fair, we did spend about ten minutes last night talking about my dating life.

So, you know, it's not always the most relevant news.

Lee, how do you stay up to date?

I think that we are having that problem again of Lee not being able to spread the relevant information because.

Can you start my clock again?

Can I start your what again?

Right, yeah.

Right.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I'm the classic example of someone that felt, you know, stood still for years and then fell behind to the point where I nearly lost my job.

And it's that self employment mindset again.

You know, no one is responsible for making sure you keep up to date with the driving laws and regulations.

So it's really important to keep moving forward when it comes to your own development.

Traditionally, you know, you'd have to buy the latest publications and read them to stay abreast of like changing laws and stuff.

But now it's all at your fingertips, really, like the instructor podcast and other such platforms.

Unfortunately, you know, we've also got online, which, you know, like Emma said, is just noise.

And I think a lot of good stuff is lost in amongst all the crap and it creates a lot of sticking points.

But the proper information is out there.

You've just got to find the time to find it and have the drive to want to keep improving.

We've got a brand new Adi called Gary Thomas and he is the epitome of this right beginning.

And we talk a lot about a minute.

You got about a minute and 20.

You didn't speak for 1st.

20.

I.

You know what, I will take a moment to say the DITC is the best communicator information out there most of the time.

But if you want quick and easy access to short buy information, the instructor podcast WhatsApp channel is quite useful for that.

But we have got a bonus question today because Octol is box sent in seven.

The problem I've got with this 7th one is it's quite long and you've already heard me butcher a couple of short ones, so allow me to try and read this question out.

But it's only going to get read once.

I can't do it twice.

Right, so no pressure.

Oh, here we go.

In the absence of a graduated driver licensing system, how do you ensure that young learners are fully aware of the risks associated with carrying peer age passengers and driving late night during the early months of their independent driving post test?

And what specific role do you think that driving instructors play in educating and preparing students for these risk situations?

I almost got that right, but we'll go with it.

I'm not reading it again.

Chris, you're up.

I'm still processing.

I think we kind of covered this earlier, didn't we, by the how do you develop their confidence?

How do you challenge things, all of those different areas?

It was across a couple of different questions.

The best thing we could do is bringing bring in GDL, but of some kind, a proper GDL.

It's one of those things that just make sense.

How do we address it otherwise?

We can work with parents to encourage a contract based system where if they're going to allow use of the car, there's rules and regulations involved in that.

We can encourage restrictions so they don't have peer passengers in the car.

We can make the choices ourselves, we don't have to have it legislated.

And insurance companies, if they could get on board better, if people do something wrong, send them back to us and we can work with them.

That answered the question, because it was a challenging one.

I think so.

And if anyone needs a question again, please tell me, but I'm not going to do it voluntarily.

Neil, same question, unless you want it again.

I think we've covered it quite well already, to be quite honest, with distractions and everything else.

It's quite a touchy subject, but a lot of people don't like it.

But it's all about working towards that post test, isn't it?

And doing what we can to create that sort of atmosphere after they pass the test.

And we can only keep trying.

As driving instructors, we can only keep trying to involve that until they bring in Jerry GDL, who knows?

But we can do what we can do and encourage what we can encourage.

Bob.

It's a tricky one, isn't it?

Because even if you bring in GDL, you know, the graduated driving licenses, people will find ways around stuff.

You know, they run an experiment in Australia where they said that kids had to have 200 hours with their parents and the parents were just signing the hours off without doing it.

So it's a combination of a lot of the answers we've given.

We need the parents working with us as a team and we need to talk about decision making and have that as the core really of what were doing.

If this happened, what would you do?

Okay, youre driving at night.

What do you think your chances of having an accident are compared to driving through the day?

Driving on a motorway?

What types of roads create the biggest risk?

So we need them to be risk aware, not risk averse, but aware of the risk and able to, I think Lou said, didnt she, ages ago about she wants her students to choose to drive badly, to be able to choose to have the nous to actually work it out.

And that's the secret, I think, rather than legislation.

We don't have everybody on board and get the parents on board, damn it.

Thinking about that woman who said, if I'd known now what I knew that I'd known then what I know now.

So maybe that's partly our job too.

Excellent.

And Phil, so the honest truth app is my answer to this.

I would suggest that all of those things that you that are in within that the GDL are also there within the honest truth app, so you can enable you to have those sort of, kind of frank conversations with your pupils.

Get the parents involved in those as well.

Let the parents see the honest truth app and see what we're talking to their kids about.

So I think that's, yeah, definitely using the honest truth app within your lessons.

I think, again, social media, I'm regularly posting about road safety stuff and so that maybe parents or other drivers can see that just sort of kind of helping them understand their responsibilities.

I think the my car, my rules from honest truth as well, again, is sort of getting them to think about how am I going to be safe after I get in the car.

And I've got 6 seconds left.

So I'd like to thank Terry for giving us the questions a month in advance so we could read it as many times as we wanted to and.

Not making me say it as many times as you want me to, which is helpful, but I'm glad you said that about social media, actually.

I don't normally chip in with this, but I think it's a difference between helping a person and helping people.

And you might not help everyone, but you might be able to help someone.

So, Lee, your turn.

I think the GDL is something that would be quite difficult to police, and I think people will find a way of getting around it.

Like Bob suggested, I think from our end, it's really important that we try to create these right attitudes, because if we think right, we're going to drive right.

But the ones that are in danger are the ones that don't get these conversations when they're learning to drive.

So they don't have these thoughts and they haven't had these scenarios put to them when they were learning.

That comes down to us being kind of test focused again.

So we need to take every opportunity to relate on road scenarios to real life peer pressure, alcohol use and everything.

And we need to think how these factors can change how we feel inside when we're on our own.

But there'll always be dickheads who do dickhead things in cars, but we have to try and minimize that risk.

Excellent.

Last but by no means least, Emma Cottington.

I think the biggest thing for me when we have these conversations and we're tackling this stuff is that we need to forget that we're the expert.

We need to stop talking at them because we know that that doesn't work.

We know that the scare tactics doesn't work.

So I think for me, this is about exposure.

Have conversations that they're leading.

You know, what.

What is your understanding of, like, alcohol?

What's your understanding of driving at night?

You know, do you know what the risks are?

And just not talk at them, but have conversations, get what their opinions are and start mapping it to the world.

What's this?

What is this in their real life?

What does that look like?

And then, other than that, it's the same as what some of the others have said online presence.

One of the things I tend to do is check in with them after six weeks, once they've passed, and then again at three months, and just see whether there's anything else I can help with.

Scur tactics.

Does anybody want an additional 60 seconds to come back on anything we've spoken about today or just to throw abuse at anyone?

Seconds for that.

An interesting debate evolving on Facebook at the minute about whether we should allow situations to develop or whether we should have been in earlier.

And I think sometimes as trainers, we get kind of test focused, even though we might think, well, not what's everybody's thoughts on that?

Would you let it happen and then reflect or would you always jump in.

Beforehand, always coming back to Bob first.

On that depends how dangerous it is.

I would say, yeah, that would be my thoughts as well.

It would depend on the risk factor.

But I would be aiming to not get involved for as long as possible because I think experience is learning.

So that's where I would be going with it, unless it was a danger.

I mean, I always take the line that experience is far better at teaching than I am, but I wouldn't let it evolve on a standards check or an audit.

Equally perceived risk needs to be taken into account because you might feel that it's perfectly safe while you're in the car, but your reputation could be being trashed by everybody else's perception of the fact you don't know what you're doing.

So can I tell a quick story that Lee said something that triggered.

So Lee said about he really now enjoys going back to teaching learners occasionally.

So I had the same feeling this year.

I stopped in January and I went back this week.

I'm doing two learners on a Monday just to kind of keep my eye in and also so people can come and sit in the back of my lessons.

So did my first lesson on Monday.

Thought it went brilliantly.

Challenging people that one of my instructors struggled with.

Great lesson.

And then today they messaged saying, yeah, I don't want to do driving lessons anymore.

So clearly wasn't that good.

I'm zero for zero right now.

Might go back to training instructors.

Bill, do you find that you're now better at doing the job than you were before you start?

100%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I found that, like, it's just I was kind of nervous about it because I thought, I've not done it for a while, but afterwards I thought I've actually done a really good job.

And it's, you know, it's like something that Bob said to me a long time ago.

It's like if you're, you'll always get better at teaching it if you teach it to other people.

That's something that I found.

I was pretty nervous about it, but it went really well.

I like it.

Can I still one last thing, because I didn't mention it because all the questions were very practically focused.

But I think one of the biggest areas that we could improve people's understanding of the psychological side of things is actually to have decent theory training in classroom, whether that be online or not where we look at those factors in that environment and then we take it into the car similar to the french model or the scandinavian models, where we actually engage with that side of things better.

But it's what can we do in the environment we've got at the moment.

But in the future, hopefully that will change.

Maybe we need to start doing a post show ten minutes after this where we record a little more than ten minutes and just talk about stuff, which could be interesting.

But I want to give you guys the opportunity to tell us why you're awesome and where people can find you.

Phil, you've had pretty practice, at least throughout the last hour.

But either way, Chris, why are you awesome and where can people find you?

I'm awesome because no one seems to know what I do, despite the fact I seem to be shouting about it all the time.

And then I talk to people and they go, I didn't know you did that.

I train driving instructors.

I'll do a lesson on pretty much anything if you want me to.

I just don't particularly like the trainer hat, so I don't shout about it a lot.

So if you want to find out what I can do to help you, I'm a qualified business coach, I'm an audit trainer, whatever that means.

And if you are interested in developing different skill sets, then I'm one of the people to get in touch with.

There's others in the room.

So theory test explained is the best place to find me because then you can check that out at the same time.

Do for me, Neil, why are you awesome and where can people find you?

I'm awesome because I'm me and people buy people.

So hopefully people buy me because I'm awesome.

Yeah, they can find me at why two learn driver training.

They can find me on the IMTD published authors everybody knows, but they can find me through that on Amazon as well.

So yeah, that's where they can find me.

What's the book called?

Untwist in the road to success.

Excellent.

Right, Bob, why are you awesome?

Where can people find you?

As ever, I'm awesome because my mum said I was and you can find me at clientcenteredlearning dot co dot Uk.

Boblientcenteredlearning dot co dot UK is my email address.

Excellent.

And Phil, why are you awesome?

Where can people find you?

I'm awesome because I genuinely care about helping instructors become better and I.

I also felt because I do it in a positive manner and try to inspire them rather than put people down and I think you can find us@inspireinstructuretraining.com with our membership.

We also have two workshops coming up, both online and we are taking our in person workshop online.

Our we're only human workshop on the 6 November, so they'll be all online.

Particularly proud of that one.

And the fact that we don't mention the standards check all part three app all and then the complete opposite of that one we are doing on nine and a half simple steps to pasture part three in which we will be mentioning the part three and the standards check all of the time on the 14 October.

How many simple steps?

Nine and a half on that film.

Nine and a half.

Nine and a half yards.

Was it not nine and a half men or is that something else?

No, I think I'm thinking nine and a half.

Your collection.

I can't be accused anymore of stealing other people's names when I use the night.

I'm not allowed to use numbers or words.

You've stolen the nine and a half weeks title and combined it with simple steps.

Nine and a half weeks.

That's what I was.

Yeah, yeah.

Kim Basinger.

Correct.

Mickey Rock.

If you can wing somewhere there, then I'll attend to Lee.

Why are you awesome and what do you have to offer?

Where can people find you?

God, I hate this question.

I'm awesome because I've got a nasty habit of making what seems quite complicated to everyone else seem quite simple.

So if you want me to help you do that, then let me know.

I do instructor training primarily.

I can help people overcome their woes for standard check and part three, especially if you want me to help you, make you a good instructor, I can do that.

It's much better to be a big man with a small ego than a small little man with a big ego.

So if you want me to help you do that, then I can help you do that and you can find me at adi doctor dot co dot uk or pDI doctor dot co dot uk.

I think I'm still trying to work out the ego thing there.

Either way, Emma, why are you awesome?

Where can people find you?

I am awesome because I am human.

And if you approach me for any help, I will treat you as a human.

I'm not going to come with knowing all the answers because I definitely don't.

But I will help you find out who you are and that'll help you find out who your learners are and help you progress in your job, in that respect, building human relationships.

And you will find me.

And everything I do, I have now got a link tree, which is linktree.com forward slash emmacatinton one.

And you can find links for all that stuff that everyone said in the show notes, including links for Dodge was a box and dry fit and other stuff that's been mentioned today that I can't remember.

So all that's left for me today is a big thank you to you guys for joining me, as always on this six or seven for 60 today, potentially.

And a big thank you to you guys for listening.

And let's just keep raising standards.

The instructor podcast with Terry Cook, talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.