This interview with Mary Tess Rooney is the reminder that we all need that our joy and happiness matter at least as much as what other people expect of us. Mary Tess is the author of Heart Value, a book that helps us ensure we are making career and life decisions from the intersection of the value we offer the world that also lights us up.  

What Mary Tess describes as Heart Value is very close to what I call Great Work, which is why it was such an easy decision to invite her to the podcast. And I’m very glad I did! Mary Tess is no pie-in-the-sky Pollyanna. She urges us to acknowledge that it can be challenging to speak up and share our heart value with the world, and she encourages us to be strategic and honest about what’s possible right now and what might need some time to unfold. In both cases, she emphasizes that we are not rushing towards something better, but instead, we are building a habit of honoring our heart value. 

Join us as we discuss:

·    Why the people we work with need to see us in ways that matter to us instead of ways that matter to them.

·    How to let our heart value guide our practical actions and tactical choices, and how that is the surest way to create a life we love.

·    Why we need to impact our careers by sharing what lights us up and asking for the opportunity to do more of that

·    How to cherish your EPIC adventure, even when things do not go as planned

Resources Mentioned:

Website: https://marytessrooney.com

IG and LinkedIn: @marytessrooney

FB page: @marytessrooneybuzz

Click here to get your own copy of Amanda's book, Great Work.

About The Guest:

Mary Tess Rooney founded True Stride and wrote Heart Value to empower individuals to drop into their heart to share value that energetically and emotionally lights them up. As a Heart Value expert, author, podcast host and speaker, Mary Tess creates strategies and tools to help people, like you, voice your value, activate appreciation and prioritize fun. In Heart Value, Mary Tess guides readers to recognize that every experience is an accrual of value, and it’s important to honor your feelings, choices and actions to increase fulfillment and joy.

About The Host:

Dr. Amanda Crowell is a cognitive psychologist, speaker, author, and coach focused on changing our perspective on the world of work. It IS possible to do Great Work—the work that calls to you from the inside-- without sacrificing your health, happiness, and relationships.

Amanda is the Author of the book, Great Work: Do What Matters Most Without Sacrificing Everything Else, and the creator of the Great Work Journals. Amanda's TEDx talk has received almost two million views and has been featured on TED's Ideas blog and Ted Shorts. Her ideas have also been featured on NPR, Al Jazeera, The Wall Street Journal, Quartz, and Thrive Global.

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Why it is so important to voice your value is if you reinforce the value that you share that lights you up, you can influence them and you can persuade them.

Welcome to unleashing your great work, a podcast about doing the work that matters the most to you. I'm your host, Dr. Amanda Crowell, a cognitive psychologist, coach, author of the book, great work, and the creator of the great work journals. Every week on this podcast, we're here asking the big questions. What is your great work? How do you find it? And why does it matter? Whether we do it? What does it actually take to do more of your great work without sacrificing everything else? And how does the world change when more people are doing more of the work that matters the most to them? Stay tuned for answers to these questions, and so much more.

This interview with Mary Tess Rooney is the reminder that we all need, that our joy and happiness matter at least as much as what other people expect of us. Mary Tess is the author of heart value, a book that helps us ensure that we are making career and life decisions from the sweet spot. That sweet spot is the value we offer to the world that is absolutely in service to others, and also lights us up. This is heart value. What Mary Tess describes as heart value is very close to what I think of as great work, which is why it was such an easy decision to invite her to the podcast, and I'm very glad I did. Mary Tess is no pie in the sky Pollyanna, she urges us to acknowledge that it can be challenging to speak up and share our heart value with the world. And she encourages us to be strategic and honest about what's possible right now. And what might need some time to unfold. Mary Tess shares her own experience on both sides of that scenario. She shares a time when she put a multi year plan in place. And another time when a grand courageous gesture was called for. In both cases, she emphasizes that we are not rushing towards something better. But instead we are building a habit of honoring our heart value. By doing that regularly, we will feel more in control of our lives and experience more joy and happiness. And that's a win win I can get behind. So who is Mary Tess Rooney you ask? Well, Mary Tess Rooney founded true stride, and wrote heart value to empower individuals to drop into their heart to share value that energetically and emotionally lights them up. As a heart value expert, author, podcast host and speaker, Mary test creates strategies and tools to help people like you voice your value, activate appreciation, and prioritize fun. And heart value Mary Tess guides readers to recognize that every experience is an accrual of value. And it's important to honor your feelings, your choices and your actions to increase fulfillment and joy. Let's welcome Mary Tess to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast Mary Tess.

Yay. Thank you so much for having me. I feel very honored.

I am super excited that you are here. Me. So I would love to actually start with the question we always start with, which is just tell us a little bit about your great work.

Yeah so it's funny, I think about my great work in terms of how I show up in this world. And so at my heart of hearts, I'm a teacher, like what really lights me up is distilling a variety of different information, and then sharing it with people in a way that connects with them on an individual level. And so in that way, I see myself as like a teacher slash healer. And that the conversation that continually gets me jazzed up is this idea of sharing value that energetically and emotionally lights you up. So I call it heart value. Because we've all been there where we share value that pleases others, but kind of makes us cringe inside. And then we get into a habit of it. And we don't give ourselves permission to choose again and say no, like I have great work, I have value. And so why not allow it to please me and serve others. And so that's what I'm most excited about, like right now in terms of healing people and teaching them that they deserve to have joy while they share their value.

Interesting. So can you give us an example of maybe a personal example to you or a client that you've worked with where and the difference in between the value that please There's others in the value that pleases themselves. And the kind of differential experience between those two, just so yeah, unpack what you're saying.

So I love learning. I'm also like a big student. And so I love absorbing information. And so in prior roles, when I worked in corporate America, they would always put me on these new sort of task force projects where I would leave it lead it. And sometimes it was like, systems or software, and so like a client relationship management tool, or, you know, rolling out an intranet. And so, while I was learning about it, I was like, keyed in, I was like, Okay, this is cool. I, you know, I didn't know this is the backend of the client relationship management tool, or, you know, I didn't understand the power of the internet, for employees. And so, you know, you kind of go through this process. But then what I realized for myself was once I got things to launch, like, I didn't want to be the girl that maintained it. Yeah, it's like, okay, I don't want to be, you know, constantly owning that. And so I really loved rolling off a project as much as I liked rolling on. But at different points in my career, it's like, if your manager, your leader is saying, hey, we need you to sustain this, you need to continue. I felt ownership to say, oh, okay, they asked me, I need I need to do this. And it took me a while before I realized that I could speak up and voice my value and say, You know what, I appreciate that you're asking me if I want to continue to lead this project. But no, like, what lights me up is getting it to market is getting it secure, and getting the right people on place. But then I want to roll off, and there's better people at maintaining it. Like that's just a reality. So. So that's one example of, you know, how we, we can balance kind of what lights us up and key in on what we're good at. And then there's been other times in my life where, you know, I've been surprised, like, I really started the podcast, because I knew I had a message and I wanted to share it. And it seemed like a very accessible medium. But you know, what, it's like, in that first couple episodes, I was like, Oh, I'm so awkward, and it feels challenging. And so I wasn't sure I was going to enjoy it. Because I just felt like that, you know, this is a new muscle and, you know, do I am I going to like this. And then, you know, once I kind of gotten to my groove and hit my stride there, I'd love it. Like, it is something that brings me joy. So even though it is not financially beneficial for me doing it because it makes me happy. And so it's like, where in our life? Are there those things that you know, logically? My, my tax accountant was probably like, really? Are we still gonna keep doing this thing that doesn't, you know, bring in any revenue? Yeah. And I'm like, Yes, I am. Because I know it makes a contribution this world I hear from the Striders, the listeners, how different episodes resonate with them, or what they took away. And it brings me joy to so it's like, when you get that dynamic of lighting me up and being in service of others and helping them it's like, to me, that's exactly what you talk about on each and every episode. Like that's great work.

That's fascinating. And so there are really two pieces to what you just said, on the one hand, there's the recommendation of like, knowing who you are, first of all, figure that out. Because a lot of people are sort of oblivious to it, they think it doesn't matter. Right? Like, it doesn't matter who I am, I have this job. That's the job I'll do, because that's the job they asked me to do. Yep, versus knowing your strengths. And just like asking for the things, you know, maybe they won't give it to you, but you will not know unless you ask. So that's one piece of it. And then the other piece of it, I want to come back to which is the the idea of giving yourself permission to do things that maybe other people are like, I'm not sure that's valuable, but you know, it gives value to your heart. And that's enough, yes, let's talk about the courage to know yourself, and then assert what you know, into the conversation in a professional environment. Because I think people don't always buy the argument that I make. And that sounds like you're making, which is that actually, if you do that, people will value you more and you'll be more likely to make more money more likely to get promotions. But can you speak a little bit to that?

Yeah, so listen, it's it is hard, and especially in a corporate world or in different roles where we get good at something right and so other people are like, hey, like yeah, let's go to Amanda for this. Like she is really good at that and you become known for that thing, yeah. But why it is so important to voice your value is if you reinforce the value that you share that lights you up, you can influence them, and you can persuade them. But if you're not willing to first know it in your heart, and then secondly, speak up for it and voice it, then you're right, you're gonna get overlooked, you're gonna get ignored, you're gonna get outmaneuvered by more politically savvy people. And so just what you're saying, like finding that courage to speak up, it's like, you know, what's the worst that happens? They say, No, or they say not now. And then you can come back to it and say, you know, that happened to me once I forget what I was communicating that I wanted to find a path to do instead of whatever I was working on. And, you know, they gave me the not now and I said, Okay, great, like, what's, what do I need to get there? Or what's the criteria you're looking for? And how can you help me? And then, you know, you almost enlist their accountability, where they're like, Okay, you're really serious about this, yeah, I'm serious about this. So help me get there, I'll still keep doing whatever it is that you find valuable. But you have to know that you know, where my heart is, and where I feel more aligned, is on this other area, and you're gonna win more, if I'm aligned, and I'm producing value that serves, we're a company. So to me, that's like, that's huge. And it's very empowering. And when you start to say that, and when you start to just share that with others, then you can get like the community of voices where people go, Oh, you know what, Amanda likes this. And she's good at it. You know, maybe we look her in and see, see where we go. And then you have the opportunity to prove that out to?

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, really, even corporations, which sort of take on this notion of entity nests, right? Like, the corporation or the bureaucracy, or the government isn't anything other than a collection of people, yeah, operating the system. And so really, change doesn't come from changing, you know, the government, it comes from changing your relationship with the people closest to you who have actually access and control over almost all of the choices that you would want them to make, right? Like, can I work on this project? Can I reduce my footprint on that one, etc. So it's really not the monumental task of getting a new job. It's like, you know, actually impacting the one you have through the relationships, which you can't do, unless you know what your heart value is. And you speak up. Yep. So I have not read your book, I'm sorry to say, but I will immediately order it as I see it in the background there. Tell us a little bit is this what is covered in the book is like, how to know what your heart value is how to share it is that

luck? Yeah. So it's interesting, I talk a lot about my own experience, but then other people that I care about. And so through the power of stories, I share how you know, each of us come into this world, and we encounter circumstances where we have a manager that we know will give us that meets expectations. But we don't have that energetic and emotional connection, right? It's not like they're like, Yeah, way to go, or you don't feel appreciated, even if they're like, oh, yeah, you know, thanks. That report is good. You know, there's just, there's something missing, or you feel like, you know, you're in a room with your peers. And there's always that one person that gets all the kudos. And you're kind of like, Wait, is I can I do that, too? Why? Why am I not visible? And so, you know, I explained that as hate, like, that's your heart value, like there are people that you're going to interact with to that, they might not just get you like, you just don't have that emotional and energetic connection with them. But that's okay. Like, they still are validating that you're doing a good job. And there's something to that. But where I find the magic in my own career, or what I've witnessed and others, is when you have that energetic emotional connection with the work you do, and with the people who see and appreciate you in ways that matter, right. And that's a that's a big component, too, is, you know, I wasn't always motivated by money. But I was motivated in other ways. And so again, going back to knowing yourself and knowing kind of what makes your heart tick, what makes it you know, skip a beat or get too excited? Yeah. And, and so the book is structured in sort of this storytelling way of, hey, maybe you can relate to people who have been overlooked or ignored or outmaneuvered. Maybe you're in a situation where you've subscribed to some made up rules, like a lot of corporations, there's made up rules, right? I think we have to follow them. And like, oh, no, I can only talk to my manager about this, like there's a chain of command. And it's like, no, what's the worst that happens if you go outside that arbitrary, you know, chain of command, you might find someone else that emotionally and energetically connects with you. So it kind of just helps break down some of these belief systems and these structures that, that I was a part of, too, right? I mean, I grew up believing that actions speak louder than words. So that you know, and tooting your own horn. And promoting yourself was crass, or, you know, just boastful. And now in this day and age, there's so much information, you do not speak up for yourself, you're, you're missing out. And right. So we all have that generation that humble, no, you know, it'll, it'll come to me. And I used to believe that and for a long time that served me now I don't know, I think, hey, this you have one life, you have one job to like, or one opportunity to share your great work. And that's going to evolve with you. Sure, and that's going to change with you. But at every point, you have to be the one that's getting excited and sharing it. So the book takes people through not just the stories, but then at the end of each chapter, there are exercises, there's practices that you can put in place, I take them on what I call wise walk reflections, and this is a key component of my true stride podcast, too. Because on each wise walk, right, you know, everyday, we have the opportunity to slow down and check your reality, and then go inward, and listen to our feelings to make choices and actions that align with us. And so the questions really kind of just, you know, prompt. And then there's also some examples of how to use what I call a feel choose act amplifier. And again, that's like, you know, just drop into your heart, like, how does this make you feel? Okay, great. Now that you know that, that excites you, or that makes you cringe? What are the choices that are available to you? And from that place that heart centered understanding and understanding of choices? Great. So what do you have to act on and then and move the ball forward that way, and then again, you take action, and guess what you drop into your heart again, how does this make you feel didn't exactly work out great, you have more choices and more actions available to you. So it's kind of just this encouragement and evolution to go after what you really, really want.

I like that, like that you're pointing to making choices, and then assessing and making a choice and assessing. And it sort of puts you back in the driver's seat of the sort of moments and days and like of your life. And I think that one of the things like I, I want to harken back to something you said the the sort of unwritten, or sort of, you know, established ways of being that you sort of buy into and then are like locked into. And one of the things, those two things together, I think there's this feeling where when you aren't in the driver's seat of your life, when you feel like you're locked into an autopilot version of it, because of these unwritten rules. And those ways of being, you can feel kind of locked in a prison of perfection, right? Like, you're surrounded on all sides by expectations, and you don't feel at all able to impact it, like soften a part of it, like move in this direction, you just don't feel the ability to do that. And one of the in the book, great work. One of the book, one of the things I talk about is this. It's in the chapter on doing less, and how you can drastically change the experience of your life without changing any external circumstances. If you, you know, take some control. One of the recommendations is this thing called be minus work, which is basically like finding the individual little pieces of things that you could do less well, like only as well as it needs to be done. And no better than that. And you don't have to tell anybody about it, and no one will ever notice. This is like the promise of it. But of course, sometimes people notice and this is where in coaching conversations and stuff people get totally stuck. Yeah. And I have had to admit and normalize and kind of what's the worst that could happen which you've said a couple of times, like yes, one time, I did not send the the spreadsheet to my boss before I sent it to the client, and he's mad. And that is what happened. That I said sorry, and He said, okay, and that was the end of it. Yeah. So worried that that could possibly happen. But what if he's angry? We're like locked in this sort of impenetrable palace of perfection all around us. Yeah. And I feel like what you're describing is a way out of that palace led by your own understanding of your heart. Because if you are not motivated by that, like, what are you going to be motivated by?

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's pretty cool, isn't it? And it's, it's also, you know, gone back to your what you're saying about these made up rules, right, that the these constructs that we buy into, you know, we do them, almost like automatic pilot, like, at some point, we believed in this system, and we just don't question it. And so I'm sort of proposing a question and a little more, I had a dear friend, who was, she joined a new company. And it was very clear that the CEO of this company, and she didn't gel, they, there was a major disconnect. And she really wanted to do a good job. And so she created this life sentence for herself, where I have to stay here a year, but she was miserable. She got hives, she got an ulcer, oh, no, she had anxiety. And she loved her team. So she kind of struggled with why don't want to let my team down. And, you know, I, I should at least stay here for a year. And it's kind of like, okay, why a year? Like, what do you think is going to? You know, I know you want to win them over. But is this like, do you think it's important for your resume? Like, what did we decide, because I grew up in that, you know, you can jump ship, like to arrive look bad on your resume, or, you know, so again, it's not, she did end up leaving the company after 14 months. And now she's like, in a job that she loves. And so she's so happy. But for, you know, she lost a good 14 months of happiness. And yeah, you know, her family felt that impact, because we all know, when you come home from work, and you're dressed, and you're disappointed, because you're not sharing your heart value in ways that matter. Yeah, then then the whole tribe feels it. And so her only regret is, you know, what, your and two weeks into that job, I saw the signs, and I push them down, I didn't think I was allowed to choose again. And so so that's the big I think component is giving yourself permission to, to make mistakes, and to just feel your way through it. And know that at any given point, there are, there's the only rules that really matter is how you want to live your life. I mean, I'm not encouraging you to do anything against the law, like real laws. But, but at the end of the day, like just, there are a lot of made up rules that we've bought into, that don't necessarily serve us in, in this journey. And a lot has changed since we grew up. Right. So right,

especially the last couple years. Yeah. Wow, love it. So I want to talk about your own experience of discovering your heart value and doing your own great work. And I haven't really met anyone who has a history of really kind of doing their best to follow their heart and do their great work, who hasn't had to have a moment of great courage or, you know, a struggle that they've gone through and had to kind of, like, knuckle their way through or learn and transform the way through whatever it is. And I'm curious about your story, like, what do you think has? Have you had to overcome? Or have you had to really realize or confront in order to follow your own path of great work?

Yes. So I worked in corporate America for over 20 years. And through my own sort of career evolution, I worked with managers that I, you know, did not connect with that we're happy to take whatever work I gave, because I was a good worker, but they didn't necessarily. There wasn't that emotional, energetic connection. I also had managers where we had a complete, like, synergistic symbiotic relationship. And it's like, yeah, all right, let's keep doing it. You know, and, and so I saw this big differential in this disconnect, and I also got to witness my own energy in those circumstances, and how I would show up not just in the office, but after hours or, you know, with my family and friends and so, so early on, I started to notice this kind of opportunity to say, all right, my energy is at a higher frequency when I am with someone who complete Li, like appreciates me in ways that matter. And, and I feel more connected to the work that I'm offering this world. And then the other thing that I witnessed or an experience for myself was when I was in those moments of working in a role that didn't light me up, kind of had to go outside of myself to say, okay, my nine to five, or, you know, it was longer than that, but it is not like heart centered work, or I don't feel appreciated. So what am I going to do outside that can raise my frequency because it was always someone, I'm a positive person, I want to be energetic. I don't like being you know, sort of in that woe is me space. It's just doesn't feel right to me. And so, you know, I remember working for an individual who it was, you know, it was a job at that point, but I need, I couldn't make a change, I needed to pay the bills. And so I wasn't making any moves. And so I'm like, Okay, well, you know, what, what else can I do? I can, I can train for the marathon. I've always wanted to run a marathon. So let's do that. And then I started to look at that job so differently, because it afforded me the opportunity to focus on things outside of my life. Yeah, yeah. So I was like, oh, all of a sudden, I was like, she doesn't care if I leave at six o'clock. And she's not asking me to do work after hours. So there's some benefit here, right? I mean, she's not, she's happy with whatever I give her may not. I mean, that sort of lightheartedly, but, but it shifted my focus to say, all right, in those moments where I have a role that doesn't feel aligned, can I do good aligned, things, activities, experiences outside of the job. And then it was I totally, like jazzed me up, and it lifted me up. And so I was like, happier with my role, right? I wasn't focused. I always talk about and I've shared this in the book, it's like, whatever we focus on becomes our reality. And so if we focus on the fact that we're in a job that is unfulfilling, then guess what, that's our reality. And that's everything. Like our life just becomes like, Oh, this is unfulfilling, this isn't fulfilling, and we get stuck in this talk track. But if you can shift it, like I did with a marathon, it's like, wow, okay, this job is unfulfilling, like that part didn't change. But it is affording me the opportunity to put my energy and my efforts in something else that I really wanted to do. And I ended up training for that marathon. And I ran it, and I ran another one, two years later, like, it just it turned into, like an opportunity for me to see my life differently. And that was it. That's a, it's a big thing. So I had, you know, those types of struggles that was making me key into this idea of value. And then later in life. You know, as my career evolved, there was a point where I was like, Okay, again, I'm sort of in this gray area where I know my manager doesn't value and appreciate me in the way that matters. I'm gonna get certified as a coach. And so I signed up for CTI and got went through that coaching program. Yeah. And then I can remember vividly, we were doing like a triad coaching circle, and I was the observer in this situation. And so the coach was asking the client, okay, well, you know, are you fulfilled, and she was talking about how she signed up to be a stay at home mom. And that was the agreement she made with her husband, but she was miserable. And so, and I'm like, watching and witnessing, and she's like, well, I should be happy, right? I mean, most people want to stay home with their children, but she just wasn't fulfilled. And so we kind of like broke down this whole thing. And it's like, where are we with these shoulds and obtuse everything she said, was like, well know what I need to like, follow through, it's what I told my husband, I want it or it's not fair to my kids, if I do this before, you know, they are both off at school full time. And so she came up with all of these reasons and these excuses to please others, but none of them were focused on pleasing her. And I just remember getting like chills down my spine because I thought, Oh, my goodness, you are doing that same thing. I'm now in a role Sure, sneezes others, but doesn't make me feel good inside. But I feel like I should be happy because I have a great job and benefits. And I travel a lot. And so it's like, we can talk ourselves into stayin in that, you know, that situation that other people would want or that are craving. But if it doesn't feel right to us, then we should really just key in on that and give ourselves permission to say, I'm going to choose again and I don't know where I'm going Boy, but I know what I'm doing right now. No longer serves me.

Oh my gosh, that's so interesting. I like to call that golden handcuffs, which is this like, idea that like, I'm stuck here. I feel like I'm in handcuffs. But everybody else is looking at me with just envy. And, you know, a lot of people feel that way. And sometimes it's fascinating when it's almost like this default way to convince ourselves that what, because people are afraid of change, right, like the devil, you know, versus the devil, you don't know. It's like, even when the job's not that great. It's not that rare. It's not that highly paid. It's not that flexible. They'll still tell you. It's golden handcuffs. Yeah, like, and I liked that you told really both sides of that story. On the one hand, yes, you can be more excited about an opportunity by by really kind of keying into what it allows you to do outside of work, you can do that. Yeah. And you can also stare the bear in the face and say, Oh, I see. And this is not great. So then what did you do with this spine tingling realization at this? So what did you do next?

So I knew I needed to leave corporate America. But I also at that time, I was in a financial situation where I was not, it wasn't going to be an immediate thing. So I put together like a multi year plan. And I kind of said, Okay, well, this coaching certification, it's the first step. But, you know, I need a couple years, and then I needed to get some more hours. And thankfully, the role that I was in, I said, you know, I made the offer to the company, and said, Hey, I'd like to coach some new hires, you know, in addition to the role that I'm doing, because I want to keep getting, you know, these hours so that I can, you know, grow. And they were like, that sounds great. Go ahead, because I wasn't changing my role, I was just adding on to it. And, and so I kind of came up with this plan. And then when I, all of a sudden realize, like, oh, I want to write a book, like, that's what I want to do. And then I kind of was like, Oh, my goodness, you cannot live in New York and be on, you know, single family income, and do what I wanted to do. And so then I was like, Okay, so we're relocating, where we're relocating to where's a good cost of living structure. So there was all these kind of logical, you know, practical steps I needed to take in order to transition and exit. But all of them were fueled by my heart. And they were like, This feels rights, you know, so I moved to St. Augustine, Florida. I'm very close to where my parents live. And so just I'm like, why not? Right. And never thought I'd be a Florida girl. But I love it here. And so and that cost of living is so much more attractive than what I was paying in New York. And so and so those were just big kind of leaps of faith that have fortunately worked out. And I kind of keep just going along with that.

That's great. I like St. Augustine, Florida. That's the one that's like, got an old historic town, kind of Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's the one town in Florida that I'm always like, it's actually feels a little bit like Georgia. And I like it.

Yes. It's really it has a totally unique recently, as someone explained it like as like a European vibe. It's like a little bit of Europe, a little bit of Keywest. A little bit in Georgia. Like it just has a little bit of southern but also, I don't know, it's yes, unique. It's a unique area.

Yeah. Wow. So that's interesting. I liked that you had sort of a multi year plan, you didn't have to be in a hurry. And that's one of the things that I've thought a lot about actually is like, why do we get in a hurry? And one of the things that seems to push us to feel like I can't stand this another second is that we aren't entirely believing that we can do it. It's like we want released from the tension of can I can't I will I won't I? Whereas if you're just like, No, I am. And I'm going to be strategic. And I'm going to take it one step at a time so that I don't blow up my life along the way. And I know I'm going to do it. There's no question about that. Because it's based in my heart, it's coming from my great work, and great work does not change doesn't shift. I mean, it changes over time in a slow way. But the purity of it is strong. Really tell

ya. That's really true. And, you know, I think that we all have this little bit of instant gratification, right? I mean, it's like, we can order things on my Amazon and it shows the day. I mean, what did we do before

we could get it the next day? It's

so, you know, I'll admit that there were times when I was going through my multi year plan that it was frustrating, right? But I just kept going, Okay, well, it's just like, I have to sell this house and then let's move to the next item. And so And I kind of had to keep encouraging myself and reminding myself of my vision. So that's the other thing that I share in the book is this idea of I call it like, design your epic adventure. Epic stands for Envision. The P stands for plan is implement and then cherish, right? I mean, each step along the way. And because guess what there's going to be times where we, we create the the vision and the plan we implement, and it turns out the way we want, or sometimes when it's like, okay, like that didn't turn out exactly who I want. Let's, let's dial it back. And let's again, choose again, choose again, right, yeah. And so but I love this idea of when we create, like, an envision based on a feeling like, I want to feel free, like why am I doing this? I always had to go back to what is it that you're hoping to accomplish from a feeling state? Like, okay, I want to feel free? Will this you know, we'll selling these items or having a garage sale helped me be free? Yeah, it's gonna help me be free. So let me get one step closer. Will the sale of this house helped me be free? Yes, it will, you know, will it? So I had to continually just go off of that. That feeling state? Yes. And then and that's what helped me, you know, on this multi year journey.

I love that. I think that's really great. I think that you're right, that because the way that it unfolds, it. I don't think I've ever done anything that's gone to plan. Not ever. One time this podcast itself, like launched itself by accident, I forgot that I had scheduled it until there was a podcast. Yes, hi. Better create episodes for it. That was so fun. It was great. It was how it was meant to be. And it made me feel expressive. What I wanted from it, like even though there were like surprises along the way, I love that I think that's really a really important point. And so you've you've done it, you've sort of reached this new you live there, you've written your book, your you know, what is the joy that you're getting out of your great work now? Like, what's your favorite part of it?

Yeah, so just hearing feedback for how it's changing people's lives, whether that's the podcast or the book, I went on to Amazon recently, and I saw another review. And it was John, who said, you know, he's an accountant. And one of the great things that he took away from this book was that he forgot to prioritize fun. Like he just he forgot that that is something we all again, we can control. Right? And so I don't even know, John, but when I read those things, I want to be like, Yeah, John, I wish I wish I could talk to you, you know, in that moment. Yeah. Because that's what lights me up is knowing that people are taking time for themselves. People that are reading or listening to the podcasts, they're investing in themselves, because what, you know, their value matters. And having more joy in your life matters, too. And those are things that we can focus on. And they can become a reality if we let them. So that's what supercharges me,

huh. I love it. Well, I know for sure that I will be moseying on over to Amazon here in a minute and getting that book. But what if people are, like me sort of enchanted by this whole idea? What can they do to learn more about you maybe work with you? What can they do?

Yeah, so my website is Mary test bernie.com. And then I'm on Instagram and Facebook, and you know, some of the social platforms LinkedIn. But I'm still trying to figure that out. So just know that social media is something that I don't always feel aligned with. And so I'm trying to figure out for myself, how do I be present? And how do I be vulnerable on social media, but also be authentic to myself? I haven't really figured that out. But you are more than welcome to email me or reach out and I do check you can DM me. And then I'm also really making a concerted effort to get on other people's podcasts right now. So I want the opportunity to share my story with other like minded individuals like yourself, or, or just you know, I get jazzed hearing the questions that you ask or hearing the insights and perspective because I learned from you right, and I learned from all of your listeners and I learned from, you know, every walk of life, we all have a story to tell and that helps me really hone in on my message or my why and so so I encourage and love when people reach out.

Perfect. Well, I think they should I think it's exact Do what they should do get the book, listen to the podcast, and then reach out to connect with you. And of course, as she said, if you know anybody with a podcast or you yourself, have a podcast reach out, she's interested in guessing. And as you have heard, she's a wonderful guest. So thank you so much for taking the time to be on this podcast today. It was truly a pleasure.

Honor was all mine. So thank you. Thank you.