Join us for a dynamic conversation with SPS Commerce experts Brandon Pierre and Maayan Kaplan as they dive into bridging the gap between supply chain and merchandising teams in retail. From understanding the transformative power of the OTIF metric to introducing integrated business planning strategies, this episode offers practical advice for retail executives preparing for 2025.

Key Moments Include:

• [00:00] Introduction and episode preview
• [02:50] Importance of supply chain and merchandising alignment
• [06:30] The role of OTIFF in retail success
• [14:10] Introducing S&OP and integrated business planning
• [25:05] Key metrics to focus on for cross-functional collaboration
• [35:07] Final takeaways and preparing for NRF 2025

Whether you’re a retailer or supply chain pro, this episode is packed with actionable insights to prepare for 2025!

#retailstrategy #supplychainoptimization #NRF2025

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This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

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Anne Mazinga: 00:00:08

Hello.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:08

Welcome to another exciting and elucidating episode of the omnietalk Ask an Expert series.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:13

I'm one of your co hosts for today's interview, Anne Mazinga.

Chris Walton: 00:00:16

And I'm Chris Walton.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:18

And we are the founders of OmniTalk, the fast growing retail media organization that's all about the companies, the technologies and the people that are coming together to shape the future of retail.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:28

Chris, I'm giving you a little bit of a gift.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:32

We'll call it an early Christmas gift with this LinkedIn Live.

Chris Walton: 00:00:34

Oh, really, Ann?

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:35

I am, yes.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:37

Because I'm going to bridge two loves of yours.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:40

One London.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:42

London.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:43

Two is merchandising.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:46

And just a little, a little sprinkle, if you will, of supply chain.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:50

Because, Chris.

Chris Walton: 00:00:51

So it's a threesome ad.

Chris Walton: 00:00:52

You're giving me a.

Chris Walton: 00:00:53

It's threesome.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:54

It's a trio sprinkle.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:55

It's a trio of sprinkle.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:57

Yes.

Anne Mazinga: 00:00:57

A sprinkle of supply chain.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:00

This session, Chris, is called Mind the Gap.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:04

And I'm almost like I'm expecting you at some point in time to do your, like, British version of the tube station.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:09

Mind the gap.

Chris Walton: 00:01:10

Mind the Gap.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:11

Yeah.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:12

I don't know what that was, but close enough.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:16

But we're going to talk about just how important it is for retailers to make sure that those two sometimes siloed groups of retail organization are collaborating.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:27

So to do this, we've called on two experts.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:29

Chris, we're bringing back SPS Commerce's VP of Customer success, Brandon Pierre.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:34

We are joined by their new Senior Director of Customer Success for retail, Mayan Kaplan, who are going to help our audience figure out how to get your supply chain teams and your merchandising teams working on the shame.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:45

Same sheet of music.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:46

So, Brandon and Mayan, welcome to the show.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:50

Brandon, this is old hat for you.

Anne Mazinga: 00:01:53

You've done this how many times now?

Brandon Pierre: 00:01:55

It's been a couple of times, but I'm super excited.

Brandon Pierre: 00:01:58

I always enjoy the conversation.

Brandon Pierre: 00:02:01

And thanks for having us.

Brandon Pierre: 00:02:03

And a topic that I'm very, very passionate about.

Anne Mazinga: 00:02:07

Is it London or the siloed merchandising?

Anne Mazinga: 00:02:11

Supply chain teams coming together.

Brandon Pierre: 00:02:13

Great question.

Brandon Pierre: 00:02:14

I would say it's more the merchandising and now supply chain side of the world for me.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:02:19

Fair.

Brandon Pierre: 00:02:20

Fair.

Anne Mazinga: 00:02:20

Well, speaking of supply chain, Mayan, welcome to your first omnitalk debut.

Anne Mazinga: 00:02:26

We're so excited to have you.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:02:27

Thank you so much for having me.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:02:29

I'm really excited.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:02:30

This topic is really important to me too.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:02:33

And again, talking more on the breaking the silos between merchandise and Supply chain.

Anne Mazinga: 00:02:40

Excellent.

Chris Walton: 00:02:41

It's great to have you both, Brent.

Chris Walton: 00:02:42

Yeah, Brent, I think this is your third or at least your third time, maybe even your fourth time appearing on Omnitox.

Chris Walton: 00:02:48

So.

Chris Walton: 00:02:48

Yeah.

Chris Walton: 00:02:49

So we're excited to have you back and mine, it's great to have you here with us for the first time.

Chris Walton: 00:02:52

So before we mine the gap, we want to give a quick reminder to those watching live on LinkedIn.

Chris Walton: 00:02:59

Feel free to ask your questions of Brandon and Mayan at any time via the chat session window in LinkedIn to the right of your screen.

Chris Walton: 00:03:07

All right, you two, you're on omnitalk.

Chris Walton: 00:03:09

So let me start out by saying there are no holds barred when you appear on Omnitalk.

Chris Walton: 00:03:14

Mayan, you're going to be representing the supply chain side of a retail organization.

Chris Walton: 00:03:19

And Brandon, you will be representing the merchandising side of a retail organization.

Chris Walton: 00:03:24

So now I'm going to have you start by.

Chris Walton: 00:03:26

But before we do that, before we pitch you one against another, I want you to each explain your backgrounds a little bit.

Chris Walton: 00:03:32

Brandon, why don't we start with you?

Brandon Pierre: 00:03:34

Yeah.

Brandon Pierre: 00:03:35

So really I grew up in retail.

Brandon Pierre: 00:03:37

My family owns a retail business where I did a lot of buying for the family business.

Brandon Pierre: 00:03:42

Spent 13 years at Target, primarily all in the merchandising, buying, planning side of the organization there.

Brandon Pierre: 00:03:50

And from there really came over to sps.

Brandon Pierre: 00:03:53

I've been at SPS now nine years and I know we'll get into a little bit about what SPS does, but a big part of what we do is we work with aligning merchants with supply chain initiatives and then connecting that to their suppliers.

Brandon Pierre: 00:04:07

So definitely come more and came into SPS with more of the merchant background and experience.

Brandon Pierre: 00:04:12

But I've had a chance over the course of the last nine years to better appreciate what's happening on the supply chain side and seeing some of the gaps that exist in these organizations.

Chris Walton: 00:04:24

Well, well said.

Chris Walton: 00:04:25

Better appreciate what's happening on the supply chain side of the organization from the perspective of virtually.

Chris Walton: 00:04:29

Love that answer.

Chris Walton: 00:04:30

All right, Mayan, why are you here representing the operational side of the supply chain side of the organization?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:04:36

So throughout my career I started in data and analytics and I actually discovered supply chain.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:04:43

Throughout my career I led organizations within supply chain.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:04:49

So demand planning, supply planning and purchasing for both distributions and manufacturers.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:04:56

And I've joined SPS three months ago, so I'm brand new to the team, bringing in some of my thoughts and practices, leading again, supply chain organization and sales and operation planning opportunities.

Anne Mazinga: 00:05:13

Well, Mayan, I'm really excited to have you on because of your background and the newness really to sps.

Anne Mazinga: 00:05:20

And I would want, if you don't mind, I would love to have you explain for the audience who may not be familiar what SPS does, especially as it pertains to our two topics to your supply chain and merchandising.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:05:34

Yeah, and I actually going to share it from the view of the customer.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:05:38

I was an SPS customer and that's how I learned about sps.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:05:43

So for us, as we were thinking about okay, where can we add efficiency, where do we see that our buyers are spending most of their time and where do we want them to spend time on?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:05:57

And we understood that there were a lot of manual activities and a lot of areas where they didn't add value as we needed them.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:06:05

So we started looking around and said, okay, where is this gap and is it internally, is it externally and what exactly is causing that friction?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:06:17

And what we discovered is we want our buyers to spend a lot more time with the suppliers.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:06:22

We don't want them to, for example, enter data, right.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:06:25

We want them to have those conversations to solve shortages, to understand how can we expedite, how can we make sure that we have the right inventory at the right time and the right place.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:06:36

So as we were looking to understand what can help us and how can we better connect with our suppliers, we found SPS commerce and we kicked out a project to actually have a handshake both internally, so different organization internally and externally with the suppliers.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:06:59

So we can in a way automate non value add activities so we can focus more on, okay, now the conversation about how can we both drive into one true north.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:07:11

How can now the conversation be how can the supplier and us be more successful in achieving our goals?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:07:19

And what I actually discovered throughout the project is how much misaligned we were internally when we talked within supply chain and product management, or here we're calling the merchandise.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:07:32

Right.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:07:32

Because product management or the merchant had the experience of talking more strategically with our suppliers and our buyers were talking more tactically with the suppliers.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:07:45

So as we are looking to onboard a new community of suppliers into this program, we now need to work very closely on both aspects of the strategic side of supplier management and the tactical side of supplier management.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:08:02

And how can we actually enhance that internal relationship so we show up together to the supplier, right.

Chris Walton: 00:08:12

So there's a lot of meat on that bone that you just, you just laid out in front of us.

Chris Walton: 00:08:16

So I'm excited to get to it.

Chris Walton: 00:08:17

So.

Chris Walton: 00:08:18

And you know, before we pitch it to you against each Other, you know, some people are going to assume that as a lifelong merchant that I'm going to be automatically team Brandon here.

Chris Walton: 00:08:25

But I don't know.

Chris Walton: 00:08:26

Hold the phone, folks, because, like, I got a lot of operation experience, both operator experience, both as a store field leader at Target and then also an inventory management at Gap too.

Chris Walton: 00:08:34

So.

Chris Walton: 00:08:34

And.

Chris Walton: 00:08:34

And we've been doing this job for the last several years too.

Chris Walton: 00:08:37

And supply chain kind of an important thing, you know, it's kind of important thing to figure out and get right.

Chris Walton: 00:08:42

Right.

Chris Walton: 00:08:42

Like for the most part nowadays.

Chris Walton: 00:08:44

Right.

Chris Walton: 00:08:44

Much more so than it was probably 10 or 15 years ago, even.

Chris Walton: 00:08:47

So.

Chris Walton: 00:08:47

So, Brandon, let's go to you first, the merchant.

Chris Walton: 00:08:52

Where does a retailer need to start if they want to, quote, unquote, mind the gap or bridge the divide between merchandising and supply chain operations?

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:01

Yeah, I mean, so there's a couple ways.

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:04

One, it does feel like there's becoming more of a natural progression of supply chain and merchandising working together.

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:12

And I think one of the biggest forcing factors there is the inventory side of things.

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:16

As inventory is becoming much harder to manage and allocate across all those channels, all the channels, it is forcing the merchants to have a better appreciation for how does my supply chain best perform?

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:29

Because I can't just order more inventory across the board.

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:32

I have to make sure it gets to the right place at the right time.

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:36

And it is forcing some of that collaboration.

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:39

What I've seen some organizations do and where I start to see the focus start to manifest in driving improvement is they start to align around some key metrics.

Brandon Pierre: 00:09:49

So obviously, you know, something like an inventory position is pretty critical, but even as you drill a level deeper on something so simple as Otis or on time in full, and it's a metric that I think has become a little bit of a buzzword across supply chain.

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:05

And most merchants are like, oh, great Otif, what does that mean?

Anne Mazinga: 00:10:10

Is it just the merchants?

Anne Mazinga: 00:10:11

It might be the rest of us.

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:13

Sure, sure, that that's absolutely fair.

Chris Walton: 00:10:18

But.

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:18

But it's being able to connect the value of.

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:20

Well, when product shows and it consistently shows up on time, how much better can I have my inventory allocated to the right endpoints?

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:29

How can I promise inventory better to consumers online?

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:32

Because simply that simple fact of knowing it's arriving on time and then even things like, is it coming in full?

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:40

And what's so fascinating is we roll out about 100 of these programs a year at SPS across retailers where we're attempting to modernize and automate their Supply chain.

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:49

And one of the number one things I hear from most merchants when we roll out one of the program is the data is wrong and the metrics are wrong.

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:57

My fill rates aren't that bad.

Brandon Pierre: 00:10:58

They can't possibly be that bad.

Brandon Pierre: 00:11:00

And then we dive into it and they're like, oh no, actually that is accurate.

Brandon Pierre: 00:11:04

I forgot I did cut that order with that supplier or I forgot I did give them a two week extension.

Brandon Pierre: 00:11:10

But because they're not focused on those metrics over time it just creates delays in the supply chain, it creates inaccuracies and all of that starts to compound and the ability to service the end consumer in the channels you need to.

Brandon Pierre: 00:11:25

So I think some of it is just, it's a natural forcing function that's happening now amongst these organizations.

Brandon Pierre: 00:11:31

But where I've seen some really start to lean in is the pinpointing around what the metrics are that we want to focus on and then driving that collaboration inside the organization.

Chris Walton: 00:11:42

So Brandon, what is the general zeitgeist or the impetus for this kind of forcing mechanism as you described it?

Chris Walton: 00:11:50

Is it the belief in the omnichannel view into the inventory across the digital and the bricks and mortar divide?

Chris Walton: 00:11:56

Is it?

Chris Walton: 00:11:58

How do you think about that?

Brandon Pierre: 00:12:00

Yeah, I mean, if I understand your question correctly, Chris, I mean I think in a lot of ways supply chain used to be looked at as a cost or a minimizing cost and margin opportunity.

Brandon Pierre: 00:12:12

And I think now it's being seen more as a growth opportunity or an accelerator opportunity that I, not only as a merchant am now picking my item, but if I can actually align that to our supply chain capabilities, the item is almost just as important on how I can get that item to the end consumer in the various different channels.

Brandon Pierre: 00:12:32

And so they're now starting to connect that more to growth than just purely a cost in managing the cost of moving the goods from across the supply chain.

Chris Walton: 00:12:43

Got it.

Chris Walton: 00:12:43

So said another way merchants you believe are starting to see supply chain as a point of differentiation for their product as much as say like what the color of the shirt is, where, when you can give it to them, how you can get it to them is just as an important piece of differentiation.

Brandon Pierre: 00:12:56

Yeah.

Brandon Pierre: 00:12:57

In the big challenge we see, and certainly one of the areas that was very interested in Mayan joining SPS is Mayan was able to connect those dots between supply chain and merchants.

Brandon Pierre: 00:13:07

But a lot of times supply chain is using terms and words like otif that a merchant's kind of like why do I care about that?

Brandon Pierre: 00:13:14

And so while they are connected.

Brandon Pierre: 00:13:17

It's almost like they operate in two different worlds in two different languages.

Brandon Pierre: 00:13:21

And while they're attempting to maybe tackle some of the same things, they're not always able to pinpoint how those conversations come together.

Brandon Pierre: 00:13:28

And so again, that's a big part of where we've seen advances there.

Brandon Pierre: 00:13:33

You see more supply chain folks actually now taking on some responsibilities in merchandising in some organizations.

Brandon Pierre: 00:13:41

But that's the gap that we're talking about, that minding the gap and making those connections.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:13:47

Yeah.

Chris Walton: 00:13:48

So, Mayan, I'm curious then.

Chris Walton: 00:13:49

So let's bring your side of your perspective into this discussion too.

Chris Walton: 00:13:52

So where would you suggest the operations side of the organization to start to get the merchants on board?

Chris Walton: 00:14:00

In a lot of ways, I think is kind of my takeaway here.

Chris Walton: 00:14:03

I'm probably not team merchant on this at the end of the day.

Chris Walton: 00:14:05

What's your take?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:07

So I'm going to introduce another concept Brendan was talking about, autif.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:12

I'm going to talk about snop, which stands for sales and operation planning, or the more mature ability, which is in ibp, which is integrated Business planning.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:24

And the idea is how can we as one company have one true north and collaborate, cross functionally?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:32

So this process includes five steps.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:34

The first step is discussing your product.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:38

The second step is discussing demand planning.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:40

The third is supply planning, then financial planning.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:45

And at the end you have executive review where the C suite is getting all that information.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:50

Understand where do we have gaps to achieve our financial goals?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:55

What activities do we need to do to close that gap?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:14:58

And now you have a true global view of your organization of what product is wanted or going to be introduced to the market.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:11

What demand do we have?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:13

Can we actually achieve that demand with supply planning?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:16

Are we under, do we have additional capacity that we can start saying, I understand the demand is X, but I'm underutilizing this place, this dc, this plant, this whatever service.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:29

Do you want to go and introduce the product to additional markets?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:32

Right now you're having those true conversations of not only let's drop it across right over the fence to the supply chain, go deal with it.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:42

It's more supply chain now coming into the conversation and saying, okay, you want this product, I understand here is the cost associated with it, or you only asking for this, but I have additional capacity.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:55

Do you want more?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:15:57

Those conversations don't happen as much in retail, as much as I might see more in manufacturing and distribution.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:16:04

I don't think SNOP and IBP has been introduced to retail and I think this is a really opportunity to break the silos and mind the gap by introducing cross functional processes.

Anne Mazinga: 00:16:15

I think Mayan's getting some points on the board for team supply chain here with that answer.

Anne Mazinga: 00:16:21

But Mayan, I want to dive a little bit deeper.

Anne Mazinga: 00:16:24

I mean, this all makes sense, like going towards unified metrics that you're working off of.

Anne Mazinga: 00:16:33

There's seems like there's a lot more on the strategy side that supply chain can be doing.

Anne Mazinga: 00:16:37

But what have some of the retailers, when you're going in and doing these programs, programs like Brandon talk, Brandon was talking about, what are some of the challenges that they're facing right now that are kind of getting in the way of them being able to do this?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:16:50

Yeah.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:16:50

So as Brandon said, it's all about metrics.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:16:52

Right.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:16:53

And let's think again about the gap between the two.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:16:56

When we think about the cmo, they think about revenue.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:16:59

Right.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:00

They're much more on the sales side.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:01

When we think about the chief supply chain officer, they're much more on cash conversion cycles and finding ways to do as much saving as possible.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:12

So now you have two conflicting KPIs, right?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:16

That each department is following a different path.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:19

Yep.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:20

Now let's say we have those two.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:23

Supplier scorecarding or metrics, if both organizations pick both of those metrics and understand.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:33

Okay, so I now understand why you're talking about cash conversion cycle, because you are, you are accountable for day sales and you are accountable for inventory on hand and you are accounted for days payment outstanding, which are the components of the cash conversion cycle.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:17:56

And then the merchant understand how cash is so important for the business to enable that growth and enable additional opportunities of profit and revenue.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:18:10

So to me, talking about supplier scorecarding, understanding what are those metrics, what are those targets and how can the business can become that target points that they want to grow into.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:18:24

That's how we can enable them.

Anne Mazinga: 00:18:27

And Brandon, how do you think about this from the merchandising side here?

Anne Mazinga: 00:18:31

Like where.

Anne Mazinga: 00:18:32

What potential roadblocks have there been?

Anne Mazinga: 00:18:36

Or you know, as, as someone who's been in merchandising for as long as you have, like, it seems like there's a solution out here, but what's getting in the way?

Brandon Pierre: 00:18:46

Yeah, I mean, part of me is I've been pretty amazed at the lack of internal reporting that exists that can connect sort of the supply chain performance to the merchants performance from a sales and margin standpoint.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:03

And I think merchants see a lot of data and a lot of analysis.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:08

I mean, you're getting a lot thrown at you, from suppliers to market share analysis to marketing analysis.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:17

And then all of a sudden you start to hear these supply chain metrics that you need to care about.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:21

And it's some of the consistency to demonstrate to me, okay, if we're going to sign up for this new metric, help me see how that's changing over time and then help me make that connection to what that's doing to drive growth in sales, in margin or market share for me and starting to make those connections.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:40

And that's where I will come to the defense of the merchants.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:43

Like it's not because they're ignorant or idiots.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:45

Like they do want to drive this, but I have so many different ways in which I can pull the levers.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:51

Why is this the one I should prioritize?

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:53

And that's where I hold some of the supply chain folks accountable to.

Brandon Pierre: 00:19:56

Don't throw a bunch of metrics and measurements at me that I don't understand.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:00

Connect that back to the thing I care about.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:02

And I will, and I will drive that.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:05

But that consistency in being able to do that is where I see some of the gap in these organizations.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:11

And I mean, that's a real challenge.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:13

They're operating in different systems sometimes, you know, that can create some challenges to being able to do that.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:20

But that is where I will come to the defense of the merchants.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:23

They typically tend to be rational.

Brandon Pierre: 00:20:24

If you show them something that says how it can improve their performance, you know, they'll, they'll do it, they'll lean into it, but you got to be able to show it to them.

Chris Walton: 00:20:34

Oh yeah, that's great.

Chris Walton: 00:20:36

So, so, so basically what you're saying, it's a leadership and a management, you know, issue here in a lot of ways too, between the, or the, across the junction between supply chain and merchandising leadership and their management tactics.

Chris Walton: 00:20:48

So.

Chris Walton: 00:20:48

But Brent, I want to put your feet to the fire a little bit, you know.

Chris Walton: 00:20:51

And by the way, I question whether anyone ever needs to come to the defense of the merchants given their traditional roles inside an organization.

Chris Walton: 00:20:57

But with that said, I want to put your feet to the fire here because what you both are talking about, I think anyone watching here and for those watching live, let me know if you agree.

Chris Walton: 00:21:07

But I think generally people are probably buying into what you're saying, that we need more alignment across metrics and communication and strategies between the two orgs.

Chris Walton: 00:21:16

But how do you actually do it?

Chris Walton: 00:21:18

So, Brandon, what have you seen that's crucial for success to get this implemented?

Brandon Pierre: 00:21:25

Yeah, I mean, I would say A lot of it starts with a focus.

Brandon Pierre: 00:21:29

There's so many different areas you could go and tackle.

Brandon Pierre: 00:21:33

When you talk supply chain and supply chain performance, I mean, it can almost be, it can be paralyzing a bit when you look at all the different areas you can touch.

Brandon Pierre: 00:21:46

And I do think really where I've seen organizations start to be able to accelerate some change here is really looking at the interaction between them and their suppliers and those points of interaction they have with their suppliers and kind of saying, where is it that we have some disruption in the way in which we work across our supply chain and how we connect with suppliers?

Brandon Pierre: 00:22:08

Is that on our receiving process?

Brandon Pierre: 00:22:10

Is that on our ordering process?

Brandon Pierre: 00:22:12

Could it be even further upstream on like, are we poor at our planning process or suppliers don't even know what we're bringing?

Brandon Pierre: 00:22:19

Where is it that we're struggling a bit here and pick off one of those key points and then start to hone in on, well, okay, how have we set the expectations with our suppliers?

Brandon Pierre: 00:22:30

Have we set the appropriate expectations internally and being able to look at that analysis across their industry and market to say, hey, you know, we're, we're operating with two week lead times on most of our orders, where the reality is most of our competitors are planning four weeks out or six weeks out and maybe that's part of where the pain is with us and the suppliers.

Brandon Pierre: 00:22:51

So it's kind of taking a look at those connection points into the suppliers, seeing where those biggest areas of pain are, focusing in on one or two of those and then looking at it through the lens of have I been clear internally around what our expectations are and are those consistent and then have I communicated that out to the supplier and then I can start to drive the performance improvement in those areas.

Brandon Pierre: 00:23:14

But when we see organizations try to go too broad and too fast all at once, you lose focus.

Brandon Pierre: 00:23:21

And when I see it only internally, but it not necessarily incorporate how the suppliers are going to need to operate, you also see it fail.

Chris Walton: 00:23:30

That's a great point.

Chris Walton: 00:23:31

Especially because in supply chain you can almost measure anything too, right?

Chris Walton: 00:23:34

Like you can, you can almost overload yourself with data if you're not careful.

Chris Walton: 00:23:37

I'm curious, so Brandon, in your, in your history or in your experience, which is pretty extensive at this point, is are there any like one or two or three key metrics that you would tell people?

Chris Walton: 00:23:48

Yeah, if you probably focus on this, it's probably going to help you.

Chris Walton: 00:23:50

Particularly if you're starting from ground zero in this conversation.

Brandon Pierre: 00:23:53

Yeah, well, it is that on time info that One and I got an.

Chris Walton: 00:24:02

OTIF in my back.

Chris Walton: 00:24:04

Actually.

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:06

I did not realize I was breaking that term out.

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:09

I've just become immersed in supply chain that it just has become a natural for me.

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:16

But no, that on time and full, there's so many things that stem from that and levers you.

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:21

If I know my suppliers are consistently shipping me on time, then I might be able to start to work with my ship windows with them am I ordering two weeks in advance?

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:30

But they're always shipping me on time.

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:32

Can I maybe talk to them about could we do that a week in advance and still see that that allows me to be more flexible in how I'm responding to sales performance, things like is it coming in full?

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:45

And if they're shipping me 50% of my product every time, and I don't know that until it comes into my distribution center.

Brandon Pierre: 00:24:52

Well, I'm sitting on expecting this inventory to come in and I'm likely not buying replan or I haven't invested in some other product.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:00

And so it's pretty basic when you get there.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:03

But that metric, you can do so much when you're able to drive that up.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:09

And again, Chris, this is where I've said when we've started to measure this with organizations, they're shocked at the current state of what that looks like.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:17

They're just especially merchants, they constantly will say that's wrong.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:21

And it's like, no, you actually exempted that supplier and you didn't even realize how much that would impact the downstream supply chain.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:30

So OTIF is probably the one that it incorporates a couple of things.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:34

It's the on time and it's the in full.

Brandon Pierre: 00:25:36

And if you can create better performance in those two, there's so much you can do in pulling down inventory levels, cutting down some lead times and improving the throughput when you do receive it, you're able to now not sit on inventory that you didn't know was coming and now all of a sudden you're moving it through your DCs or your backrooms or your stores much faster.

Chris Walton: 00:25:58

Got it.

Chris Walton: 00:25:59

So OTIF is the acronym of the day then I guess that's my big takeaway from this webinar.

Chris Walton: 00:26:04

And it brings up the point too about including the suppliers in that conversation as well.

Chris Walton: 00:26:08

If you don't do that, you're going to miss out on the importance of this metric aligning your organization as well.

Chris Walton: 00:26:13

So, Mayan, I'm curious any color you would add to this discussion, any additional metrics you would add into the mix?

Anne Mazinga: 00:26:19

Yeah, Team supply Chain.

Anne Mazinga: 00:26:21

Let's hear what you have to say Mayan.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:24

So for me again, OTIF is something that I've implemented in any organization I joined.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:30

It's my first step to understand what should be my action plan.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:34

Because you start with a number and you say okay, is this number good or bad?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:38

And then you say okay, what number do I want to get you and what is my five year plan?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:43

And then you go to okay.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:44

So if today let's say I'm on 80 and in five years I want to get to 98 because you can get 100.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:49

100 means infinity of inventory.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:53

If you want to close that gap, what actions do you need to take?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:56

Do you need to increase your forecast accuracy?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:26:59

Do you need to increase your supplier on time?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:02

Do you need to increase your output from your DCs?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:07

And I can give so many examples as a customer where I've ordered five packs of batteries.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:15

I got five boxes in separate days of batteries.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:20

Me as a customer receiving five boxes is just a waste, right?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:26

But the retail that sent it to me wanted to get me the product as fast as possible.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:35

Now again you go into a very different conversation of what is the in full that the customer is actually looking for is in full for them as soon as possible or in full for them is packaged together.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:49

When you have everything available for me, then ship it.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:53

There's so much detail.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:54

You can go in it.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:56

Now Otif is really great.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:27:58

But how I can also connect between the merchant and supply chain is the cash conversion cycle.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:28:05

Because the merchant is really key to the sales outstanding and the payment outstanding right.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:28:15

In their relationship.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:28:16

And then when you talk about supply chain, it's inventory outstanding, right?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:28:21

So now you have those financial KPIs that you can use together as two organization discussing with finance and with the CEO to say here is how we as an organization better manage our cash and capital, right?

Anne Mazinga: 00:28:43

Yeah, it sounds like everybody's benefiting from that.

Anne Mazinga: 00:28:46

If you can do what you and Brandon are talking about Mayan, which is work off a similar metrics or at least use goals like OTIF to start out with, to get on the same page and then to start to look at how you combine really like your KPIs or what's driving the growth of the business in merchandising and in supply chain.

Anne Mazinga: 00:29:10

I also like the customer perspective and I'm curious Mayan, like you mentioned, you know, as a customer, do I want to get five individual boxes or one box with five?

Anne Mazinga: 00:29:19

Do you find that there's interest on the retailer side now to have visibility because it's yes, less money for me as a retailer to ship this product but also my consumers expectations are changing as to, you know, what's the more sustainable option or you know, what's happening.

Anne Mazinga: 00:29:37

Like is that playing into some of the retailers investments in some of these, these strategies?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:29:45

Absolutely.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:29:46

And you'll hear the subject of sustainable supply chain coming up a lot.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:29:50

Right.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:29:50

And it's part of it as well is not only thinking how you within your organization is managing those expectations, but what is the supplier expectation and what is the customer expect?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:30:05

I can switch that battery example to say okay, the supplier now shipped me five boxes of those batteries.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:30:12

I need to open five boxes, I need to put them on the shelf, I need to do all those activities five times instead of I got one box with consolidated material, for example.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:30:25

So any example that I give on the customer side, you can flip it on the supplier side because at the end of the day the retailer becomes the customer of the.

Anne Mazinga: 00:30:37

Right.

Chris Walton: 00:30:38

Great point.

Anne Mazinga: 00:30:38

Right, Right.

Anne Mazinga: 00:30:40

Oh well, I want to, I want to kind of start to close out the conversation with planning ahead for next year.

Anne Mazinga: 00:30:48

of kind of getting ready for: 2025

Anne Mazinga: 00:30:55

So Brandon, I'd love to go to you first.

Anne Mazinga: 00:30:58

Like what's your advice for them as they kick off some of these initiatives that we've talked about today or try to kind of merge the gap between, bridge the gap between their supply chain and merchandising teams?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:11

Yeah, I, I think, I mean I'll give a couple, a couple of thoughts there.

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:16

So first off, I would challenge people to, on this, this term that we brought up, which is the term of the day apparently otiv, if you don't know how your suppliers are shipping you from an on time perspective, why not?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:31

I would challenge you on why don't you care about that?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:35

And if you are looking at that, have you set a goal towards what good should be and how did you arrive at what that goal of good should be?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:43

And have you communicated that to your suppliers?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:45

And then you look at the and in full and are they actually shipping meaningful?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:50

And again, if you're not measuring that, why not?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:53

And what does good look like?

Brandon Pierre: 00:31:56

Because the OTIF concept brings those things together and it kind of creates that perfect marriage of it.

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:02

But it starts with if you're not measuring it, why not?

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:05

Even if you are, what does good look like and how are you communicating that out to other parties in your organization as well as your suppliers?

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:14

Around what the expectations are.

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:16

The other thing is if OTIF in that measurement piece feels too big as you're thinking about planning for next year, this might be the kumbaya of mine and I coming together, but it does, in my opinion the merchant team should sit there and it's some level of leadership.

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:32

Sitting down with the supply chain team and saying to the supply chain group, what is the biggest disruption that goes on in the supply chain today that doesn't allow that keeps you from moving the goods through the supply chain as fast as possible.

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:44

Just start with that question and then from there you can start to figure out, okay, what's my role in that?

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:50

Oftentimes merchants don't even realize they play a role in what that disruption is.

Brandon Pierre: 00:32:56

And then you can start to take that one big thing and start to unpack it and look at that.

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:01

So and on the supply chain side, they need to be invested in what the merchant strategy is.

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:09

What are the big categories you're going after?

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:11

What are the channels?

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:12

Am I set up for success to do that now?

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:14

The best organizations are likely having that planning conversation at a high level.

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:18

But I do think just even that intimate let's sit down and talk about it is critical for both parties.

Anne Mazinga: 00:33:27

I mean Brandon, I think what you need to do is at NRF start handing out T shirts from SPSS booth that say your otif is off and you like we can help you find it and then they can wear that when they get back to their offices after NRF and then they can start that conversation.

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:45

I'm more of a quarters guy and.

Chris Walton: 00:33:48

But you know what Squeezy ball, you know, whatever.

Brandon Pierre: 00:33:53

Yeah, yeah.

Anne Mazinga: 00:33:54

Why would I say T shirt quarter zips are truly making a Comeback.

Anne Mazinga: 00:33:59

It's the 90s reboot.

Anne Mazinga: 00:34:01

Brandon.

Anne Mazinga: 00:34:02

Of course, of course.

Anne Mazinga: 00:34:03

Quarter zips.

Anne Mazinga: 00:34:04

Mayan, what would your advice be for the listeners here as we wrap up?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:34:10

So I would just repeat what Brandon said.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:34:13

Just meet together, cross functionally align on one true north.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:34:18

What is the metric that cross functionally will move us forward and then set up action plan toward it.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:34:27

We are recommending is otif and if it is, then understand what each of those department needs to do.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:34:32

Right.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:34:33

It's not let's set up OTIF and our supply chain need to go and do all the work.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:34:36

It's how do we educate both sides and assign activities for both sides to improve so we can continuously improve as an organization and achieve the growth that we set up.

Chris Walton: 00:34:49

Yeah, I think that's a great point to close on the way I'D sum up what you guys both just said, too, is like, the first step is, you know, what is good, right?

Chris Walton: 00:34:55

You got to define what good is.

Chris Walton: 00:34:57

And then the next question, which I think is interesting too, is how good is your good?

Chris Walton: 00:35:00

Which is a phrase that we love at Omnitalk, like, how good is your actual good?

Chris Walton: 00:35:03

And that's the point of defining, you know, what you want that metric ultimately to be, you know, and so it's very good way to wrap this conversation up.

Chris Walton: 00:35:12

So thank you both.

Chris Walton: 00:35:14

It was a real pleasure to have you join us today.

Chris Walton: 00:35:17

If people want to get in touch with either of you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Chris Walton: 00:35:20

Mayan, why don't you start?

Mayan Kaplan: 00:35:22

Yeah, for me, you can email me to my SPS email, which is mcaplanpscommerce.com you can send me a message on LinkedIn.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:35:35

It's forward/my nk.

Mayan Kaplan: 00:35:38

Or you can go into our website, spscommerce.com awesome.

Brandon Pierre: 00:35:43

Brandon, please find me on LinkedIn.

Brandon Pierre: 00:35:45

Seems to be the easiest way to network and connect across all of us folks across retail.

Brandon Pierre: 00:35:49

Otherwise, you can find me via email@brpierrepspscommerce.com or else SPS will have a booth at NRF.

Brandon Pierre: 00:36:00

It's booth: 6757

Brandon Pierre: 00:36:03

Mine will be there.

Brandon Pierre: 00:36:04

And we'd love to pick up the conversation there as well.

Chris Walton: 00:36:07

Awesome.

Chris Walton: 00:36:07

Well, that wraps us up.

Chris Walton: 00:36:08

Hopefully everyone watching will never forget the acronym OT if ever again.

Chris Walton: 00:36:12

It'll always be top of mind.

Chris Walton: 00:36:14

Thanks to Brandon Pierre and Mayan Kaplan of SPS Commerce for sitting down with us today.

Chris Walton: 00:36:18

And thanks to all of you that joined us live on LinkedIn.

Chris Walton: 00:36:21

As always, on behalf of all of us at Omnitalk, on behalf of Anne and myself, be careful out there.