Join us for Season 13, Episode 4, "The Big Empty." Dean's journey into the King of Dicks continues as the celestial man-baby grapples with his lack of feelings. Liz deep dives into EMF and its usefulness, or lack thereof, during paranormal investigations.

Research Links

• Electromagnetism and Paranormal Phenomena – Psi Encyclopedia
• Ghost hunters utilize latest in technology / Paranormal research has become a popular pursuit
• Teddy Bears and Proton Packs: The Pseudoscientific History of Ghost Hunting Gadgets
• The Shady Science of Ghost Hunting | Live Science
• EMF in the Paranormal: What it is, How its Used and Why Investigators Take it Seriously – Paranormal Down Under

On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast, Cassiel meets his friendly neighborhood cosmic entity.

And the Winchesters need a concussion protocol and maybe some journaling.

Let's do this.

Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

I'm Diana.

I'm Liz.

And we're going to talk about season 13, episode 4, the Big Empty.

The Big Empty.

And that is not a reference to a song, a movie, or anything.

It's kind of makes me think of the Big Easy.

As I say, it sounds like it's a play on the Big Easy.

But why?

I don't know.

No, this is about the Empty and it's big.

I guess.

That's.

That's facts.

Yeah.

What have you been up to, Liz?

Oh, you know, the usual.

Writing, deleting.

Writing, deleting, the usual.

And publishing.

Publishing.

So go buy my book.

It's available wherever books are sold.

Just look up lore and more.

It's probably easier if you put in a whole Devil's Trap podcast.

Lore and more than you can find it.

But I also sold my Jeep.

I know.

So I know.

That had to be bittersweet.

Yeah.

If you're a long time listener to this podcast, you know that I had a Jeep that we called Little Beastie.

And I really love her and.

But it just doesn't make sense for me have her anymore.

So I sold her.

And I sold her for cash and actual cash.

So then I was just like, I had this big ass wad of cash.

I'm like, well, I guess I'm going to the bank because I don't need to have a big ass wad of cash sitting around my house.

Yeah.

And so.

And of course at the bank they're like, why do you have this big ass wad of cash?

And it's so hard not to be smart ass and just be like.

And it was like.

And I purposely may have, like, put it underneath a certain amount.

So what?

I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know what you're talking about either, but.

But still, it was still a large amount of money that I gave them.

And you know, of course, like, they're having to get people to sign off and I'm like, I'm trying to give you money.

I'm not trying to take money out of here.

I'm trying to give you legit dollar bills, y'.

All.

They don't know what to do.

With.

They don't know anymore.

No.

The cash machine kept breaking.

Like it like it would go like.

And then it would just stop and then it would like spit out like stuff like it was like, I don't like this bill.

I don't like this bill.

And then it would like stop.

It took them like 10 minutes to get the machine to go through.

I do.

Those machines are very satisfying though.

Well, that's.

I was gonna say it was satisfying, but it was not because it would not go through the.

It would.

It wouldn't go through the stack.

If it doesn't go through the stack, it ceases to be satisfying.

It becomes really fucking annoying.

Yeah.

And at some point is this.

Like it would be faster for you to count this by hand?

I know that's not possible, but be faster.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that was, that was my joy.

And it's why people don't like going to banks anymore because that was.

It was a thing.

And I had like before I left, I was like, I'm going to change out of my crop top because it just feels weird going to a bank and a crop top.

I also also thought I was going to my dentist and I don't really.

I was like, it's gonna be cold.

I don't.

But someone at my house was like, what is.

Why like it was just like.

But I don't know, it just feels weird to like to be in a bank where like people are in like business suits and casual stuff and I'm just like, hey, what's up?

You like my back crop top of my belly?

Like, I mean, rocket, let's go.

Yeah.

I was also going.

Besides, it was.

Besides it was like Dennis and store and all the Dennis.

I guess that's uncomfortable because I don't.

Want both of those.

Have the opportunity.

Opportunity for things to be cold.

That's true.

I was like, I don't want to be cold.

No, that's reasonable.

And.

But it's so hard because we have finally entered like summer.

Yeah.

Where it's.

Well, not officially, but yeah.

It's gonna feel like 106 in a couple of days.

So we are getting to the.

It's.

It was very hard to dress for that because every place is like over in Texas they over air condition.

So you try and dress to be outside for like two minutes in between like your air conditioned car and the air conditioned place you're going.

You.

Yeah.

And some of them though, like half the time the gym I feel like you go in like with like sweatpants and on until like you get.

Then you get really hot.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

The balance.

The balance is a real battle.

Yeah, a real battle.

Yeah.

So bye, bye, little beastie.

Oh, wait.

Fair.

You know, I say, like, what is.

Should we say farewell?

Fairly well.

Yeah.

Like, I almost was.

I have a new.

I'll wear it next week.

I have a new Bobby Singer shirt for the salvage yard.

I just realized actually that really would have been really.

That would have been timely having the salvager and the shirt.

But I just got it.

It needed to be washed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You should, you should wash all clothes that you get in the mail.

Yes, correct.

And you had.

And.

And you've had some other progress in, in things that have been going on too, right?

Or is that.

Is that you had your estate sale too?

Oh, yeah, no.

So I'm learning.

Like I said, I've been learning how estate sales work and I stayed away from it for the most part, but.

Good.

It was weird seeing people take, you know, I went there for the end of the last day and we're gonna do another sale to try and get rid of rest of the stuff.

But yeah, it is weird watching people carry out your stuff to their car and like, it's like, oh, yeah, there goes that table.

There goes that.

And then someone left a chair.

So they took the dining room set and there was like four chairs that go with it.

And like they just left the chair in the driveway.

That's weird.

I don't think they did it on purpose, but I was just like, there's.

There's a chair there.

Okay.

Didn't fit in the car.

And they said it.

Yeah.

I am hoping there's like some big pieces of furniture that have not sold and I'm concerned about how.

What I do with them because, you know, like Salvation army, it doesn't really come and pick up stuff.

Stuff anymore.

Like, there's not really people who come, I think donation wise that come and pick up stuff.

Not, not like it used.

Not as much occasionally, but not as much.

Yeah.

So fingers crossed.

The rest of the stuff goes this weekend.

Yeah, this Friday.

Fascinating.

It is, it's.

It's a fascinating process.

And the people who, who said who.

Yeah.

They put a lot of work into.

Into doing the sales.

Yeah.

It's wild.

Yeah.

Wild.

So, yeah.

What about you?

Oh, I'd say I don't.

I was like, have I been doing stuff I don't think I've done?

We, like, I don't know, we've been watching the sportsing stuff because there's been a Lot of sportsing going on in the world.

And I know Liz is over the sports thing, so I won't dwell on that.

But now we've got some good time with family.

We're dealing with a puppy training and a puppy having an allergic reaction to training, which I think is funny, but not funny.

It's very stressful.

And.

Yeah.

And by the time this drops, we are going to.

Babe and I are going to one of the World cup games.

Pretty.

I'm excited for the experience, even though I'm not a massive soccer fan at all.

But, yeah, that's.

I think that's about it.

You just kind of enjoyed our, like, neighborhood.

We had to get out of the house for a minute and, like, went and just enjoyed, like, Bishop Arts, which is close to where we live in Oak Cliff in Dallas.

It was kind of.

Kind of fun just walking around and, you know, sometimes you just forget, like, when you've got, like, stuff near you, just, like, go walk around and have a glass of wine.

I don't know.

Yeah, just drop that in.

Yeah, There was nothing near me.

You have stuff down there.

We went to downtown.

It is not near me.

Well, that is like 25 minutes away.

That is not the definition of near.

That's fair.

Fair enough.

You get.

Yours is under 10 minutes.

Yeah, it is.

Assuming I can park.

Yes, that's true.

But yeah, that's.

I guess that's about it here.

I don't know.

I think I was still just recovering from my going to Minneapolis, so.

Been a little bit lower key and now getting back into chaos because that's how I live with my calendar.

Because that's what I do to myself.

Fair.

Fair.

I mean, it just.

I think, well, sometimes you accept you.

You do it to yourself because you don't have the.

You don't have the.

The saying.

No, I'm not good at that.

But I did do pretty.

I actually relaxed some this weekend.

It was weird.

Like, I sat around and I did, like, some meal prep and, like, made food and hung out.

Like, it was kind of out of.

Out of my norm.

Got some pool time, you know.

Yeah, that was.

The other thing is I finally was able to get into my pool for at least, like, two hours.

Still unable to relax and just.

Because in.

Just so.

But it's.

It's gonna take a while.

We'll get there by the end of summer maybe.

At least.

At least pool season lasts long here.

It does.

Although we just had more.

You know, it's like we just had more rain and it won't we needed it.

So I'm not going to complain about it.

Okay, that's.

We're at the point.

We're talking about the weather, so it's time for us to move on.

All right, so this episode and there's nothing going on in the land of the Boys.

They are just moving along, doing their stuff.

There's a rumor that Amazon submitted Jensen Ackles for consideration for a Primetime Emmy for his role in the Boys.

But that's like, not nothing.

He's not.

Doesn't mean he's nominated.

It just means that he's them for.

Consideration for your consideration.

And then I'm sure there's some, like, Ackles, like, really like steel.

Steel.

Blue steel looks of him.

Oh, I'm sure they're like, look at me in my beard.

Yes.

Yes.

But, yeah.

So that's it.

All right, so to this episode.

So the big Empty.

This was season 13, episode 4.

It was directed by John Badham, who last season we saw doing Regarding Dean and Celebrating the Life of Asa Fox.

It was written by Meredith Glenn, who also did.

Wrote Regarding Dean.

And then she did Ladies Drink Free and the Future with Robert Barrons as well last season.

Then on to our recap.

So we kill monsters, including clowns.

I don't know why the clowns was in there.

And shifters.

And maybe this.

Maybe that clown was a shifter.

I think the clown was a shifter.

Yeah.

And then everyone is dead.

Dean is sad.

What about Cass?

Did it get him dead?

And that's where we pretty much go.

And.

Yeah.

And we open in Madison, Wisconsin, where a dude is entering his house by himself at night and he gets surprised by a woman waiting there for him.

And he is very confused because apparently she's dead.

And she's like, well, I'm back.

And calls him.

She calls him baby bear.

And they go into kiss.

And then she stabs him in the guts.

Yep.

She stabs in the stomach.

And then she leaves.

Just leave some air on the ground.

Dying.

Very, very dark.

Yeah.

So we go to the bunker and Sam has returned with coffee and Dean is.

And snacks.

Because there's.

There's something.

Well, we don't know.

That could just be sugar and cream, but I'm assuming there's something in those paper bags.

I certainly hope so.

But Dean's being surly Dick Dean.

And he has found.

But he's found a case about.

He's like.

Because apparently the neighbor at this house where this murder happened saw the victim's dead wife leaving the Scene.

So Sam's like, okay, cool.

Let's do the case, and we'll bring Jack with us.

And Dean's pissed.

He does not want adventures in babysitting the Antichrist, but, yeah.

And he's just still in dick mode.

And he tears into Sam that, you know, Sam thinks her mom.

That Dean thinks her mom is dead.

And the sooner that they can be on the same page, you know, the sooner they can move on.

Sam calls him out for wanting to move on from their mom, and Dean responds with, right now, I want to kill some dead guy's dead wife.

Yep.

Which I did.

Appreciate that.

It does me.

Yeah, I tracked that quote, too.

I was like, yep.

And so Sam's just like, fine.

Whatever.

We all need to get some air.

Give.

Give Jack a chance.

Let's do it for me.

Let's go.

And so Dean finally kind of relents,.

But.

And Jack is watching Star Wars.

That's what he's doing.

He's watching specifically the Clone Wars.

And out of the.

Out of that, Jack doesn't like Anakin.

And Sam says, that is pretty.

Probably for the best.

And I'm just like, nerds.

This is some Star wars nerd.

But it's fine.

It is.

Because if you don't know, Anakin becomes Darth Vader.

And so it is good that you know, because they're worried about Jack turning dark side, that Jack doesn't like Anakin.

And there is your nerd line for you.

Okay.

So Sam invites Jack to come along in the case, and Jack says no, because he knows this is Jack, that Sam just wants to make him an interdimensional can opener.

Yeah.

You're just trying to use him.

Yep.

That's it.

So Sam's.

Sam has to open up and admit that.

Yes.

Do I want you to do that?

Yes.

But it's because our mom's trapped there.

And, you know, maybe if you have your power back, you can open the door and help us save her.

And this does appeal to Jack because Jack's got rightfully mommy issues, and this.

This appeals to him.

So finally.

And.

But Sam.

And Sam is being very, like.

I don't know.

I think he's being sincere.

We'll see.

But he's like, yeah, you know, if you don't want to go, it's okay.

And if you can't open it, it's okay.

I care.

You know, I do care about you, and I should have told you.

So Jack's like, well, Dean won't even look at me, and he wants to kill Me.

I'm like, what's fine?

Literally wants to kill me.

Yeah.

And Sam's like, I'm not gonna let that happen.

Dean respects effort, so we're gonna go.

Be the good guys.

And that makes Jack look happy.

Yes.

And then we go from there to Wisconsin.

That Jack is in the backseat of baby and has all their fake IDs, and he's very confused because he thought lying was wrong.

Yeah.

This is gonna be morally confusing for Jack.

That's all there is to it.

But, yeah.

So Dean's just being really short and rude, but they.

They're at the victim's house, and apparently they've discovered the wife died six months ago unexpectedly.

And.

And.

And.

But now Jack's even more confused because he thought when people died, they didn't come back.

So they're like, oh, you know, there's ghosts that go crazy.

Or it could be a revenant.

Yeah, well, they're like, ghosts.

Those go looney tunes.

And then Sam is like, well, wait a minute.

Ghosts don't normally walk out front doors.

And the camera then house the front door with a caution tape on it.

And that's her like, well, maybe it's a revenant.

And then Jack's like, what the is a revenant?

And Sam's like, well, those are kind of more like zombies.

Yeah.

But they spot the neighbor watering plants, so they're like, oh, this is the witness.

Let's go talk to her.

And she is like, yeah, I definitely saw the wife.

I definitely know her.

I watered their plants all the time.

We are best friends.

Okay.

Like, I watered her plants every time that she and her husband went on vacation for six years.

You think I don't know her?

That's really funny.

And then Sam very, like, super suspiciously asks about, like, got any smells?

Got any smell anything weird?

Got anything cold?

And she's, like, really trying to be helpful.

She's trying so hard, and she's clearly making up.

And she's like, maybe the street light flickered.

But either way, Jack has disappeared.

He is no longer waiting in the car because.

And the front door to the house is open past the caution tape.

That's not good.

But.

And Dean bites off Jack's head.

And not literally, but just.

He's just still being a rah.

And Sam pulls out an EMF meter, and he explains that ghosts put out electric magnetic interference and the meter will tell them if a ghost is there.

And we are going to actually talk about that.

And it's time for lore.

And we have talked a Little bit about EMF things before in passing when we talked about some of ghost hunting equipment, but we haven't really dug into what it is.

So we're gonna talk about what, what those things, what the EMF meters are, what EMF is and or not you actually can detect ghosts with them.

So an electromagnetic field, EMF is best described as a physical field produced by electrically charged objects.

EMF exists everywhere.

Or should that be emf?

So what is the plural of emf?

I'm not sure because it's electromagnetic field.

Right.

So anyhow, natural EMF is generated by the earth and that can be influenced by weather, solar activity, lightning and geomagnetic storms.

Man made EMF is produced by electrical systems, wiring and everyday things like power outlets, appliances and cell phones.

And according to paranormal down under, EMF is believed to act as a trigger for residual hauntings, a playback mechanism for stored energy, and a catalyst that releases recorded events.

Believed is probably the key word in that sentence.

A science has never proven any of those things can happen happen.

So yeah, that same site said studies have shown that fluctuations in EMF can make a person feel like they are being watched, trigger anxiety, create sensory distortions and induce mild hallucinations.

And science has kind of shown that can happen.

Now Psi.

I know there's like there's a bisai or if it's psi.

The Psi Psi Encyclopedia proposed that exposure to specific electromagnetic frequencies may contribute to sensory based paranormal encounters such as feeling touched, hearing unexplained noises, or witnessing apparitions.

There are also theories suggesting that when electromagnetic fields interact with naturally occurring magnetic fields, appliances or physical structures that those generate the phenomena.

That's often mistaken for the paranormal, including things like the poltergeist activity, temperature shifts, light anomalies, and the movement movement of objects.

Other theories linking electromagnetism to the paranormal frequently suggest that spirits can be identified via electromagnetic emissions or that spirits rely on this energy for manifestation.

Furthermore, some paranormal investigators posit that ghosts use electromagnetic fields to interact with observers or to become visible.

I'll break down some of that stuff.

Hertz, you know, he built the first machine to detect radio waves and electromagnetic energy could be electrical or magnetic waves propagating through space.

And that could be radio waves, microwaves, X rays or gamma rays.

Right.

And again, according to psi.

I won't call it psi.

Psi Encyclopedia.

Tate proposed that electric magnetic forces provided a visible continuity between the living world and the ghost world.

And they're like, yes, this is something that we're gonna.

They didn't.

They weren't able to prove it, but they posited it.

Eusapia, Pellet, dino and other things are trying to measure that stuff around that time when they were just trying to figure out, like, what science waves were and whether or not they were working with the paranormal.

Now, Persinger hypothesized that changes in geomagnetic fields driven by tectonic stress could stimulate the brain's temporal lobes, thereby producing the subjective experiences associated with the paranormal.

Now, Mary Roach, author of Spook, explained that Persinger had another theory that exposure to electromagnetic fields lowers your melatonin levels, which then caused tiny epileptogenic.

I think I said that right?

I don't know.

Tiny micro seizures.

And those micro seizures cause hallucination.

Hallucinations, whoa.

He also believed that the emotions experienced during grief produce stress hormones which could also produce these micro seizures.

So having places where you're expecting to experience death producing those things that triggers these micro seizures that then trigger your feeling like you're seeing a ghost.

Right.

Parson Persinger created what would be called the God Helmet, which would expose the wearer's brain to magnetic signals.

Yes, it sounds like something out of some.

Wearing the God helmet were said to experience both physical and psychological sensations, including religious visions.

Prosinger claimed that 80% of the roughly 1,000 individuals who underwent his specific electromagnetic stimulation of the right temporal lobe reported feeling of presence.

These participants were exposed to one micro Tesla electromagnetic fields targeted at the left or right temporal lobe, or both, while the control group received placebo pulses.

The study found that subjects with right hemisphere exposure were significantly more likely to experience fear and sense of presence compared to those in the fake or the left hemisphere groups.

Right brain dominant people responded the most to the helmet, indicating that some are more susceptible to the paranormal.

Experience.

Experience.

Experiences included.

Some who quoted.

Were quoted say, I felt a presence behind me and then along my Left side.

Another one said, I began to feel the presence of people but I could not see them.

They were along my sides.

They were colorless, gray looking people.

I know I was in the chamber, but it was very real.

The paranormal researcher Susan Blackmore, who visited Persinger well into her skeptical years for a New Scientist article, wrote, I felt something get hold of my leg and pull it, distort it and drag up the wall.

Mary Roach questioned whether it was possible that EMF patterns enhance people's ability to see the paranormal.

Persinger thought that people could be affected by electromagnetic fields and then project their own experiences onto them.

With ghost as the explanation for the ex the sensations they experience or that those people could be picking up an information from the environment.

It so I'm in a haunted house, I'm feeling something weird.

My brain is going to say this is what I'm feeling is a ghost.

Just because the field, the field effects of the field just made your brain try to interpret it to that well.

Because you're feeling the sensations that mimic these paranormal things and your brain has to come up with a way to explain them.

Yeah, I'm still hung up on Lab created Hauntings.

I'm just.

Isn't that a great, great title anyways?

Yeah, it's fascinating.

Fascinating.

Researchers at Uppsala University in Sweden challenged the helmet's lack of repeatability and suggested the results may have been influenced by suggestibility.

High scores on a 98 item spirituality assessment were predictive of experiences such as fear, hallucinations and bodily detachment symptoms characteristics of temporal lobe epilepsy.

Because this condition frequently remains undiagnosed, individuals experiencing these phenomena may lack a medical explanation and instead view them as spiritual occurrences or ghosts.

Oh, one thing I forgot to say about the, the Persinger thing that I thought was really interesting too was if that was correct, then it's basically saying that whether or not you're right sided or left sided dominant on your brain could influence whether or not you believe in ghosts or see ghosts.

Right?

Because maybe that's why when I go to, you know, when I go to ghost investigation, my friends are like, I feel something.

I'm like, what are you feeling?

Like I don't, I don't feel anything.

And maybe it's because I'm not as right dominant.

I don't know.

I think that's really interesting.

Even though that study hasn't been.

It's not replicable.

But you know, if it was true.

I love pseudoscience.

Whatever.

It's fine.

It's all real.

It's more real than a than AI produced science.

Using a pair of magnetometers, the team led by Jason Braithwaite and Maurice Townsend measured magnetic fields in the region of 0.1 to 30 hertz in the castle's tapestry room.

They concluded that the ghostly occurrences reported by individuals lying on the bed were caused by interactions between the ambient electromagnetic fields and the iron bed frame.

Parapsychologists from the University of Hertfordshire and the University of Edinburgh, led by Richard Wiseman made electromagnetic field measurements while searching for explanations of reporting park hauntings at Hampton Court palace and Edinburgh's vaults.

The team used magnetometers to survey the ambient magnetic field, but found only modest evidence of causation.

So what about the device itself?

An EMF meter is a handheld device that is designed to measure electromagnetic field fields.

Consumer paranormal versions generally focus on extremely low frequency or ELF AC magnetic fields generated by mains electricity, which is around 50 Hz in the UK and sometimes include a separate circuit for higher frequency electric field detection or radio frequency field approximation.

A typical unit contains one or more coils which are inductive sensors for measuring magnetic fields and sometimes metal plates are specialized sensors for electric fields coupling.

All right, so EMF meter's popularity in ghost hunting is largely attributed to the rise of ghost investigation shows like Ghost Hunters which popularize a safe range EMF brand.

Interesting.

The Atlantic attributes that's popularity among ghost hunters to its brightly colored LED display and propensity for false positive readings.

Oh man made EMF is a common cause of false positives in ghost hunting.

For example, when you're taking reading near an electrical source source all like I said, all consumer electronics and all operating battery operated items mobile phones, walkie talkies can these can all set off your EMF detectors.

Yeah.

False positives could also just basically be attributed to not reading the instructions.

This one person our back yes, don't read the instructions.

Damn it.

I was gonna Say, how do you sign up?

How do you sign up?

So get a graduate degree.

No, no one is.

You can't get.

As far as I know, you cannot no longer get a graduate degree in parapsychology.

Anyways.

Okay.

So they said, I'm seeing people use EMF meters all over the place and they all get excited when they get a high reading and it turns out that they're next to a microwave oven.

I found more bad wiring in homes than I found ghosts with these devices.

Hour by Rock said, that's funny.

So there are several types of meters used in paranormal investigations, with the most popular being a single axis EMF meter which measures EMF in one direction.

There are also tri field tri axis EMF meters that measure across three dimensions.

And when Mary Roach inquired with the Trifield Natural EM EM meter manufacturer about their justification for marketing the device as.

As a ghost detector, the representative, Dean Radin, admitted there was no scientific evidence.

Instead, he said the marketing was based on anecdotal observations of meter spikes and purportedly haunted locations.

Raiden emphasized that EMF meters are designed solely to measure electromagnetic fields.

There is no evidence that EMF meters detect anything other than emf.

He did tell Mary that he assumed that someone, possibly more than one person, had noticed that an EMF meter registered a jump when he or she was standing in a spot that felt haunted.

Huh.

And in an article for Live Science, Tom Cook, who sells ghost investigation kits, explained the scientific rationale behind his equipment as at a haunted location, strong, erratic, fluctuating EMFs are commonly found.

It seems these energy fields have some definite connection to the presence of ghost ghosts.

The exact nature of that connection is still a mystery.

However, the anomalous fields are easy to find.

Whenever you locate one, a ghost might be present.

An erratic EMF fluctuation you may detect may indicate ghostly activity.

However, Cook admitted there exists no device that can conclusively detect ghosts.

Bummer.

So those are em.

That is EMF explained and broken down.

So that is a fun device that Dean is sharing with with Jack at this point.

And.

Yeah, interesting.

We see it a lot in the.

They've used this.

I love an EMF reader.

I mean I, I have a couple.

Yeah, it's not my favorite.

It's honestly, it's not my favorite ghost hunting tool for.

Because it's not been shown to work and.

But I mean it's.

It's interesting to look at and interesting to see if cold.

There are cults, you know, it doesn't measure cult.

Is it.

If you know to See, if there is different things.

If it aligns.

If like if you have a cold spot.

Is the EMF also going on?

And I also think this.

This idea of the causation.

Right.

That it's not even the.

That it's not that it's spirits that is causing you to feel the things that feel like spirits.

That makes sense in its own way.

That's a. Yeah.

So.

Well, that's, you know, which is how we use the supernatural to explain science.

Maybe this is some science that we still don't quite quite understand.

That maybe do a little bit.

I don't know.

And I like to.

You know, I'm a skeptic.

But I also just.

I want to believe.

I know you want to believe.

I want to believe.

But wamp wamp, emf.

EMF doesn't work.

All right.

So back in supernatural land, there's nothing on their emf.

And Dean says that must mean it's a revenant.

So we're off to the grave, off.

To the graveyard and say they.

Dean throws a shovel at Jack and tells him to start to dig and walks off.

It's real shitty.

And Sam's like, it is real shitty.

But I also think it makes you a Winchester.

It's true.

But Sam kind of calls out and he's like, you're acting like a drill sergeant, like dad did with you.

And yeah, that worked for you.

But just reminder, that didn't work for me.

So maybe think about how you're communicating.

And Dean don't give a.

That's the long story.

Yeah.

He refuses some other attack and he's like, besides, look at the kid dig.

Like he's doing a good job.

But they do get to the body, to the coffin.

And they find the body inside.

So it means it is not a revenant.

So now they are back to square one.

Because it must be a ghost.

But that doesn't make sense.

They still.

Because there's no emf.

And Dean starts salting the body.

If you want to learn the lore about doubts behind salt, go ahead and find my book.

It's in book one.

All right.

So Dean, as he's salting the body, just starts being salty and complaining about all the things that are currently upside down in the world.

Like portals and shape shifting demons.

Yeah.

And then Jack's like, by the way, is my mom Kelly a ghost now?

And they say no, because.

Dean says, what Burned?

Gets.

Stays dead.

And why are you saying that like it's a good thing?

This seems terrible.

I know.

I talk about this all the time.

But it seems upsetting setting.

And then they light the corpse on fire.

Ew.

And they all just stand there and they smell the corpse as it burns because they're gross.

And nobody notices there's a fire in the cemetery.

Just saying no.

Just, you know, big old bonfire in a cemetery.

It's cool.

It's Madison, Wisconsin.

Clearly nothing else is going on.

So they.

We cut from there to the scene we left the last episode in, which is a black void.

And Castiel standing there now.

He's standing now.

Calling out hello.

Repeatedly.

Hello.

Hello.

And he's no answer.

And so we go from there to Route 19 and a woman with a hell of a bob.

And she has a flat tire and is calling roadside a second Assistance.

Yeah.

And as she's about to get.

About to get off the phone with roadside Assistance, she sees a young boy in her rear view mirror and calls out to Scotty and is very excited to see Scotty.

And then Scotty lunges at her and we get blood splatter everywhere.

Yes.

And we don't really know how she dies.

And it seems like he ate her.

But he didn't because we learned.

I mean, maybe he kind of did because there's just, like guts and stuff everywhere.

Which seems more than the stabbing that happened in some of the other stuff.

Anyways.

I was kind of just confused about what.

How she was.

How her method of death.

Right.

It was very splattery.

All right.

As we can see as we go to the site in the daytime.

Yeah.

And Sam and Dean are there at this crime scene and they base the.

They found out that Gloria was ripped apart.

And.

But while she.

She was on the phone with roadside assistance, and they were still on the line and they heard her talking to Scott Body.

Way to do some police work, Madison.

Right.

Y' all figured this.

Like, did y' all know her?

What the.

Yeah.

Crazy.

But once again, there's no EMF reading, so it can't be a ghost.

So now they've got to see the connection between.

Find the connection between Gloria and Wes.

And we go back to the.

For now, it's the Empty.

We can just call it because we know it's the Empty.

We call.

I was like, it's a black void.

But this is where we learned that that's.

Well, we're about to learn.

We see a weird human shape and liquid.

It's very creepy.

It's very Leviathan.

It's very creepy.

And.

Well, it's a little more.

I think, a little more futuristic than Leviathan.

To me, it feels very much more like Trony.

I don't know if that's the right word.

Like, it's just the body.

The body.

The liquid body.

I felt was a little bit like that, but.

Yeah, so.

But, you know, for.

It's.

It's.

It's creepy either way.

It's.

Yeah, it's creepy.

And then we go from there back to the police department in Madison, where Dean sent Jack on a food run.

To stand in line at the hot dog stand.

And Sam is kind of annoyed about this.

He's like, he's not our intern.

And Dean's like, well, whatever.

He's fine.

I can see him.

But he also keeps staring at me.

And Sam's like, he wants you to like him.

So it's just a funny exchange, but either way.

But they figured out that both of these victims were seeing the same grief counselor.

And Dean refers to all shrinks as snake oil for the mind.

Oh, my goodness.

And Sam is like, no.

Maybe this is how healthy people deal.

But they found her grief journal, her grief diary.

And in it, it says that she achieved catharsis and can tell that the program works.

And Dean thinks that sounds culty.

Yeah.

So Jack does return with hot dogs, and he.

And Dean.

Dean's so mean to him.

I don't even know.

I was getting windows.

I didn't even match matter.

And they're like, well, I wonder if, you know, our counselor is a medium of some kind, but let's go.

We can't go as FBI either way, so we got to figure this out.

Yeah, but Jack is also curious about mediums now.

He's like, what's that?

Like, someone can talk to the dead.

So now he's just.

He's learned that they're, like, dead, they're ghosts, and that people can talk to them.

And.

Yeah.

So he's just like, wow.

And sometimes they come back.

Sometimes they come back when people don't do stupid things like burn their bodies.

So they go to the grief counselor therapist place.

Right.

Dr. M. Valens.

We find her name is Mia.

Dr. Mia Valens.

Valens.

Family therapy in a pretty house.

Yes.

And Sam is insisting that they.

That Dean and Jack should let him take lead on this.

And as they're going in, some bald dudes leaving, and it's real awkward saying hi to them.

But anyways, they're as he.

The receptionist tells Sam and them that they're done for the day, so, sorry, can't be seen by the therapist now, which is weird.

You can't just walk into a therapist.

You can't just walk into a therapist office.

You can't.

That's not how it works.

You have to make appointments with them on the phone.

You sometimes have to fill out forms.

You have to be improved.

They have to go through your insurance.

There's a lot of things that have to happen.

You can't skip the insurance.

We still have to out the forms.

They're still going to ask you about it.

Even if, like, there's just a whole.

There is a bureaucratic nightmare that comes in part of going to therapy.

It's part of the test.

It's part of.

Do you really want this therapy?

How bad do you want it?

All right, so.

But shockingly, this grief therapist is just like, I've got plenty of time for you.

It's fine.

Because apparently you lost someone recently.

Recently.

So anyways, we've got Sam and Dean and Jack are all like, just up the story here.

They are not good at this.

And Jack's just like, basically says they lost their mother.

His mother.

And she is gonna introduce herself.

And Sam's saying that they're all brothers, blah, blah.

They go sit in the room.

And Dean has informed Jack that he should not speak unless he is told to.

So Mia is like, talking about their loss.

And she.

And she's like, have you seen my office?

It's goddamn spectacular.

It is really cool.

It's all in white and, like, nothing is dirty.

And it's all like.

There's.

All these things have shells.

And then, like, there's a space where, like, they have the couch and the chairs.

And they can have like, their conversation space.

But then she has a separate space with her desk and her computer that's like, kind of hidden there, but you can still see it, so.

Oh, bravo.

Bravo.

Well done.

It's really pretty.

I like this, like, the way the interior of the house is really cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Dean's like, you know, she's like, we just talk about the person that you lost.

That's what we do.

And Dean's like, whatever, they're dead.

What's.

What's up with catharsis?

And Sam's trying to, like, salvage this because it's not how you question somebody.

And he's try and he it up a little more because he's like.

Well, we referred by Gloria as a family friend.

And she, you know.

Yeah.

And she told us about your.

Your process worked.

Really?

Your program worked.

And she's like, I don't talk about patients, and patients aren't supposed to talk about me.

Ouch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then she's like, also, it's not a program.

It's a process, sir.

Anyways, she didn't say it that way, but that's basically what she says.

It's a range of things.

No, it's not a process.

It's a program.

And it's a range of things.

Things.

There's talk therapy, there's medication, meditation.

Not medication, meditation.

Meditation.

And then she's like, have you ever journaled?

And then Sam's like, her dad did.

It was good.

It was good.

It was good.

But Dean's very dismissive of the whole thing.

And she calls out that.

He obviously thinks shrink stuff is a load of crap.

I just want to punch him in the dick again because he's just being so rude.

Well, here's the deal.

On top of that, whatever.

He can think whatever about this.

This.

Clearly he is not open to a therapy type situation.

But they're supposed to be investigating a murder that he wanted to investigate.

And this is their lead.

And he's not playing the role.

Like, playing along.

Like, this doesn't even make sense.

It doesn't make sense.

And it's not.

You get more funny with play the part.

They lie all the time about who they are.

It's very weird sometimes.

He's just not very good at it.

I don't know.

But it's very.

It's very.

It's just stressful and it's just.

Just being nice.

Nice.

Stop being so mean.

Yeah, it's really annoying.

I found that.

I found this part.

I won't get into it now.

I'll talk about how I feel about the episode later.

This part was very frustrating.

You're right.

And basically Sam's like, well, they all agreed to give this a shot, but my brother is not processing grief.

And Dean's like, I'm fine.

And Dean's like, so you're.

You know, whatever.

You're the one that doesn't want to accept that mom's dead.

And.

And so it's.

He's like, yeah.

So he.

So it's a whole thing.

And then Sam finally breaks.

Yeah.

Sam explodes.

Like, he never had a relationship with their mom like Dean had.

Oh.

Like, that is a whole, like, other thing that Sam has never said out loud.

And so now it's like, not only did Dean get the relationship with John, Dean also got the relationship with Mary,.

Like, and got a second chance at it.

And still Sam didn't.

And now he never will.

And he's supposed to accept that he's so fired up, he has to walk out.

Yeah.

Giant.

Giant man has to storm out of the room.

So giant man leaves the room.

And so we're into, like.

They're kind of like her lobby, her waiting room area.

And Sam is getting some water, and he sees the private sign on the stairs.

So of course he's like, I'm gonna go see what's behind this.

And then there's some, like, blood on whatever you call those things on the stairs.

I'm making a jacking off.

You are.

It's the hand.

I don't know.

It's.

What?

There's a word.

The dowels in the handrail.

I don't know.

There's a thing for, like.

But whatever the things that go up and down on the stairs are.

There's blood on them, and then there's blood all over the bathroom, then in the tub.

And there's just, like, a gross thing.

Of, like, a mound of hair and teeth.

It's so gross.

And he's.

And he's making a face like, it smells bad.

It looks like it smells bad.

It does.

It does.

Yeah.

Yep.

So he runs downstairs with a.

Well, anyway, so he.

He's gonna run down in a minute.

But Dean is sitting in with the therapist drinking from his flask because that's what you do too, also.

And she's just like, don't.

You know you hide your alcohol use from your therapist when they ask you if you drink, you say, no, it's a lie.

But you probably shouldn't be drinking in the room.

I don't know.

You should definitely not be drinking in front of them.

But she.

Mia calls Dean out.

She's like, aren't you upset that.

Doesn't it bother you that you're upset your brother so much that he had to leave the room?

And then Jack's terrified of you.

And Dean's like, no, me and Jack are fine.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Jack's just, like, trying to follow orders from Dean.

It's very sad.

And then she says this very astute thing that basically is like, man, you can be angry, and that's your business, but you're aiming your anger at everyone in your life.

Wife like a weapon.

And I think that was very good.

It was.

Well, Sam bust in with a pistol pulled and yells, shape shifter.

So.

So Dean pulled his gun, and Mia's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hold on.

I am what you're saying, but I've never killed.

You know, she's like, I don't kill people.

I help people.

And she explains that she shifts into the person that's been lost so they can see them one last time and say goodbye.

And they're like, well, what about what happened to Wes and Gloria?

And she's.

They're dead.

And she is genuinely, or she appears to be genuinely shocked that they are gone.

But she has an alibi because she was volunteering at the women's shelter because apparently Mia is a gem and a kind person.

And she knows they're hunters, but she's really like.

She knows you're like, where?

They're hunters, but she's telling the truth.

Is what she says.

Yeah.

So we're all kind of like, huh.

I don't know what to think about Mia right now.

I know because I didn't like her, and now I'm like, I'm starting to like her.

And now I don't know.

I mean, I have the bias, but, you know, kind of I just like her because she's telling Dean to shut the up.

You know, that really makes me like her.

And so we go from there to the Empty, where Cass is now being greeted by himself by a friendly neighborhood cosmic entity.

That creeps me.

The out.

Yeah, I don't like it.

I don't know why this version of Misha does, but it just creeps me out.

And he says that he looks like him because his real form would make him rip out his own eyes.

Days.

Yeah.

And apparently this place, the Empty, was before it came before God and Amara, Heaven and Hell and even Earth.

And there is nothing there.

It is just the Empty.

And it's where angels and demons go and they die, where they live, where they have an endless, peaceful sleep.

So why the is Castiel awake?

Is the question.

Because when he wakes up, it wakes up this entity.

Yeah.

And the Empty doesn't like being awake.

I'm like, same Empty, same, same.

Well, and Cass is like, well, maybe the Winchester's made a deal.

And he's like, not with me.

And I'm the only one those polls.

So he is going to grab Castiel's head and read his brain.

And that just makes Cass look like he's taking a very hard poop.

So while Cass is fighting with his constipation in the Empty, we go back to the therapist's office, and Dean's just like, well, her alibi checks out and the doc has an idea.

And she pulls out a Polaroid of bugs body.

And that's A shifter.

She dated that.

But that he liked hurting people and he liked to ruin people's lives.

And he'd like to see the look in their faces when he.

When he did.

And sweet Jack's just like, did he hurt you?

Okay.

Anyway, so Mia's like.

She pauses, and clearly that obviously he did.

So she's like, look, I left.

I changed my face, I changed my name.

And.

And that's it.

So.

So she knows that she can't make up for what he or they did, but she's doing her best.

So now, apparently, he's targeting her patients.

And they need to know how is it the.

Tom, the assistant.

So Dean and Jack are going to go check on Tom, the receptionist that we saw.

They're gonna drive to his house.

And when they get there, Dean's like, jack, you stay in the car.

And Jack's like, I want to help.

And even with the plan to save your mom, which is interesting.

And Dean's like, whatever.

Sam's plans don't always work out because Dean is still being a dick.

No.

So at the house, Sam is on the phone and gets off the phone.

He has talked to Dean and tells Mia that Dean says that Tom is in the clear because they handed him a silver dollar.

Apparently, he's just a really nice guy with five cats.

Oh, Tom.

So we like Tom.

And so Sam, what he's doing, he's going through all of her security footage.

He's looking for flaring eyes.

And then she explains a little bit more about, like, what she does.

And Sam's just like, why are.

Like, these are humans.

Like, what are they expecting?

Like, what are they.

What do they think you are?

And she said that her patients don't really care how she shifts.

And they just chalk it up to, like, hypnotism or lucid dreaming, but they're just happy to get to see their loved one and say goodbye.

And so they just don't really think about it.

Which I think is interesting because I'm sure most people don't think they're actually seeing, like, a shape shifter or ghost or anything.

It's more assumed to be, like, your body, your mind can, you know, makes it what you need it to be.

Yeah, the same thing.

Like, maybe why you're seeing a ghost when you know you're feeling an EMF thing.

Oh.

Ah.

But she also says that people are hardwired to want closure.

And at least we're.

I think we're taught that's what we want.

Right?

Yeah.

And then in the footage, they See the eyes flare, which is the sign of a shape shifter.

And it is John Driscoll, the bald guy we saw entering as.

As.

Or leaving as the guys were entering.

And he apparently is a new patient,.

Which is really creepy because that means that he was just there acting as a patient.

Yeah, super creepy.

Like he sat through a therapy session.

That's weird.

It's super weird.

I don't like it at all.

That's a level of, like, sociopath.

That's a level of stalking that I didn't want to think about.

So we go from that creepiness back to the Empty, where the Empty has red Casses and mind.

And he wants Cass to shut the up.

He thinks that Cass is just like a giant gnat in his head.

And Cass has the solution and send me back to Earth.

Yeah.

And entity is like, no, I could just fling you further than into the Empty.

And Castiel's like, if you could do that, you had already done it.

He's like, you're right.

You are right.

So he's like, well, but Cass is insisting that Sam and Dean need him.

And the entity's like, no, there's nothing on earth for you.

And he's gonna grab Cassiel's face and.

And Cassio's, like, yelling out in pain.

But apparently he's showing him his grace.

Getting taken, getting stabbed and being dead.

Yeah.

There's a mind meld of all his hits.

Pains.

Yeah.

So at.

In Madison, Dean and Jack get back to Mia's practice.

And then she's.

And they're like, where's Sam?

And he.

She's like, oh, we figured out that Buddy's posing as a patient.

And so Sam borrowed my car and is going after him without calling anybody or telling.

That's just like, come on, Sam.

That's real.

Yeah.

Dean can't believe that Sam didn't call him.

And Mia's just like, can you blame him?

I mean, I get it.

But they're also on something like this.

Like, you're pissy, but still, like, whatever.

So Dean tries to call Sam, and Jack's like, hey, Mia, can I go back to your amazing office and talk to you?

And they're like, okay.

Yeah.

And so he explains that Sam Andina aren't his real brothers.

Shocking.

And he's still trying to figure out when lying's okay or not.

But also, he died when his mom died when he was born.

And I'm carrying my laptop so I can show you this video of her.

And this is all he has.

And he just really Needs to see his mom.

So.

So she tells him to close his eyes.

And we hear Kelly's voice and saying to look.

And so we see Mia is now Kelly.

I don't know.

This gets confusing, but yeah.

So Mia.

Mia.

Kelly is now there is Kelly.

He calls her mom and she hugs him.

Jack tells her that he's afraid.

And it's all about whether or not he is good.

And he tells her how he accidentally hurt people.

And mostly that while he says he feels bad, he doesn't really feel anything.

And that's why he thinks he might be evil and maybe he's a monster.

And then she tells him, it doesn't matter what you are.

It matters what you do.

Even monsters can do good in this world.

And they hug.

So in the other room, Sam calls Dean back and says the shifter's gone and Driscoll is.

Driscoll is dead.

And I'm on my way back to the house.

And Dean's hangs up the phone.

But then we also see Dean unconscious on the floor.

The shifter's here already?

Yeah.

Once again, he got hit in the head and knocked out.

Then do they have a concussion protocol?

Right?

So Mia comes out.

They really need one.

Mia comes out of the bathroom as herself.

Does that mean her bathtub now has three skin suits in it?

I don't know.

Is that a different bathroom than earlier?

How many?

Did every bathroom have skin suits?

I don't know, man.

She needs to be putting some plastic down first.

Like, this is just gross.

Like, you should have, like, you know, to set.

Step into it.

Then you just, like, tie it up, you know, and then it gets thrown out.

But it just seems like really messy to take all those care and teeth out of your bathtub.

But Jack thinks Mia and hugs her.

And then quote, unquote, Dean comes in.

Yeah.

Fake Dean busts in and grabs an iron from the iron poker from the fireplace set and knocks Jack out.

And then.

So Jack could be.

I guess we have conscious before.

I don't.

I don't understand.

So he can stab himself with his.

Himself and be fine, but he can't get hit in the head with a poker.

It's really weird.

I don't think.

I think it's very inconsistent.

He's very out of it for the rest of this episode.

So either way.

But yeah.

Then fake Dean peels his face off and reveals that.

No, he peels off his whole face and his hair.

Really amazing.

Like, you're like, it's gross.

I'M like, it's really amazing.

Like, he just.

Like, it just was just really well done.

Like, it was very well done.

And it looks very, you know, looked very prosthetic and not cgi.

Right.

Like, it looks more like we're using actual monster special effects makeup.

Yeah.

Which is really cool.

And he kind of looks like Deadpool in a way.

Like, I kind of got that.

Like.

Okay.

Like, kind of.

Yeah.

Anyhow, so that.

That grossness happens.

And then we go back to the.

Empty, where now this entity is just, like, kicking Castiel on the ground.

What the fuck is happening here?

Yeah.

And he's just doing his Samuel L. Jackson.

Just go the fuck to sleep.

Just go the to sleep.

It's terrible because he wants.

He's like, we need infinite peace with no regrets and pain.

Just go, please.

And Cassiel is not gonna do it.

He's gonna fight back, and he's gonna try to stay awake, and he's gonna keep this entity awake until they both go insane.

Yeah.

And the Empty just keeps hitting him.

And Cass is just like, I won't fight you.

You just gotta release me.

You gotta release me.

He demands it.

Yeah.

So back at.

In Madison, at the practice, Buddy has handcuffed real Dean and Jack to the fireplace.

And Mia is like, what are you doing?

And he's just, like, mad at her for leaving because he's a psycho stalker.

She says the stalker X to him, blah, blah, blah.

How dare you go start a life without me.

Oh, why are you begging for hunter?

Blah, blah, blah.

My girl comes backs at him with, you know, the fact that he used him.

Him.

That he used her.

And then he just whines about the world.

And while he's going off about this, Dean tells Jack that he needs to snap his cuffs.

And he's like, I can't.

And Dean's like, I believe in you.

You gotta try.

But in the meantime, Buddy has grabbed Mia's face.

And now I'm like, extra gross by this.

And she calls him a monster.

And he's like, well, you are too.

And that, you know.

And I'm gonna make.

I'm gonna make you kill Dean and Jack or you die guy.

And he points his pistol at her, and she puts her hands up and said, tells.

Just straight tells him to shoot her.

Well, it's not his.

It's not his pistol.

It's Dean.

Oh, it's Dean's.

Excuse me?

And it's loaded with silver bullets.

And we did miss out on a scene where we got angry about how they loaded their Guns.

But.

Yeah, sadly, we missed that montage, but.

So you're right.

Mia tells Buddy to shoot her.

And on the surveillance camera, though, Buddy sees Sam coming to the door.

Door, yeah.

And he's all excited, so he's.

He's gonna just shoot Sam as soon as he walks through.

But Mia's trying to stop him.