Navigating Fear and Anxiety: Practical Steps for Growth and Resilience

SUMMARY

There are many fears that can hold people back in their journey to becoming amazing speakers and communicators. In this episode, John and coaching colleague James discuss how fear can be used as useful feedback rather than a stop sign. They explore lingering pandemic-related anxieties, physical manifestations of stress, and common fears such as failure or societal pressures. Together, they offer practical techniques for reframing fear into usable energy and taking small, safe steps towards a supportive environment. Additionally, they emphasise the importance of action, even small ones, to overcome fear and progress in personal growth and self-actualisation. They also touch on the significance of surrounding oneself with supportive people and environments. Both coaches share their personal experiences and offer support for listeners dealing with similar fears, providing valuable insights into how to transform fear into a force for personal development and success.

You can reach out to John from the info below, and if you would like to connect with James, you can email him at [email protected]

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction: Embracing Fear as Feedback

00:07 Navigating Pandemic-Induced Fears

01:53 Personal Experiences with Fear and Anxiety

05:46 The Evolutionary Perspective on Fear

11:57 Reframing Fear: From Nerves to Excitement

16:07 The Importance of Embracing Change

21:36 Overcoming the Fear of Failure

22:21 Overcoming Failure and Self-Doubt

23:50 The Importance of Feedback

26:18 Surrounding Yourself with Supportive People

30:52 Managing Fear and Stress

32:01 Taking Action to Overcome Fear

36:24 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

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What if fear that comes up for you isn't a stop sign, but

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information that you can actually use.

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Feedback.

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In this conversation with my friend and

coaching colleague James, we take a look

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at some of the fears that maybe have been

lingering around since the pandemic and

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anxiety loops and some of the physical

manifestations of stress and anxiety like

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tight chest and brain fog and headaches.

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Also the stories about failure

or not being that person.

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You'll hear some practical

ways to work with it.

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Reframing nerves as usable

energy, taking small safe steps

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and choosing an environment

that helps rather than hinders.

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And some simple ways to steady yourself

when your body is on high alert.

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Now, between us, we've had to navigate

this journey personally and with

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clients, and no theory for theory's sake

here, really just what's helped us out

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and what we hope will also help you.

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So here's the chat James and I had

about fear and how to deal with it.

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felt like after last, last time's

conversation, went so well.

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We thought we'd come back

again and this time have a bit

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of a conversation about fear.

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And this is something I've

noticed coming up for me.

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Uh, maybe you experienced this as

well, James, with, with a number

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of clients on, on calls maybe.

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And personally as well.

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You know, I think there's nobody who

doesn't have to deal with the fear aspects

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of going forward with stuff, right.

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So

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James Killgariff: mean, for me, I've,

I've had a lot of dealings with fear and

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anxiety for the last three or four years.

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It's just all come up and I have

clients who are going through,

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you know, uncertainty, fear,

how do you manage that stuff?

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It's, it's scary when it comes up.

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So, yeah, I've, I'm, I'm actually quite

an expert on fear because it's just

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been, it's, it's tried to run my life,

especially after the code, times of code.

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I don't know why, but, uh.

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Uh, but now I've kind of, um,

I see it more for what it is,

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but we'll talk more about that.

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John: I think that's, that's potentially

a, a really valid place to start

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because I think, you know, we all had

that experience of, of lockdowns and.

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COVID and it changed, changed

a lot of things for us.

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And whilst, whilst everything pretty

much had come back and there was,

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there was a lot of fear about are

we ever gonna be able to hug again?

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Are we ever gonna be able

to shake hands again?

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No.

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There was a lot of fear come out.

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Are we ever gonna have

normal meetings again?

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Or, um, are we ever gonna

be speaking in public again?

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Or those kinds of things we

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James Killgariff: if I was gonna kill me,

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John: Right.

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Is it gonna come back where?

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So are we actually gonna

be able to go to it?

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And, and then there was also, I think,

for a lot of people there was, there

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were these to be fears of after being

shut away, of coming back to everything.

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Like I, I experienced this particular,

one of the, the city where I live was

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so quiet and it's not normally quiet.

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You know, Valencia is not,

not usually a quiet city.

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And uh, and it was, it was

quiet during all those times.

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And, um, and, and I kind of got used

to it and, uh, and know even when we

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started being allowed out to go and

have walks at certain times and that

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sort of stuff, it was still quiet.

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And so, you know, I, I was, because I had

a private office, I was able to still go

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out to my office and the city was empty.

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You know, it's hardly anyone around.

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And it, it just felt so different when,

when everyone started coming back.

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It was a big shock to the system.

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And, um, and, and definitely maybe

there was even, I think there's even

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some fear around that as well of,

uh, this is a, a huge change and I'm

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not even sure how I feel about it.

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And so I think all these shock to the

system, all these fears, the uncertainty

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is often what's behind a lot of that.

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But also what we get used to, what we

get comfortable with, um, we start to

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have resistance to that or to losing it.

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I think, uh, for a lot of

people, fear really comes from

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this place of losing something.

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'cause we generally are far more afraid of

what we're gonna, what we're potentially

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going to lose than anything else.

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Would you agree?

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James Killgariff: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The, the, the fear of lost, uh, for

the pandemic, it, it, that the fears

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brought the fear, I don't know.

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I don't know what was, it brought

up old fear of my early years as

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a kid, but it was a, a trigger.

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It was a trigger response, which I

never, ever, ever, ever imagined.

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And, uh, I guess what fear

is, is anticipation or

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confrontation for the brain.

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It's, you know, the fear

is trying to keep you safe.

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But it's, it's a bit outdated because

95% of the fears that we gen generate

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in our minds don't really exist.

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But they are.

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They exist in here.

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John: Right.

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James Killgariff: They

exist in here, alright.

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Some of it is useful if I, if

I'm, if I cross the road as a bus

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coming, well I better be careful

not, not to cross the road too quick

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'cause I'll get hit by the bus.

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But a lot of that is manufactured

and I know from my own experience

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how I manufactured so much fear.

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lot of it was stemming from

programs as a kid that were

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coming back to hold me as it were.

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John: Yeah,

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there, there

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James Killgariff: to

clear, clear up your act.

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It's also an opportunity to clear that

stuff up and let it go, and it's not easy.

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John: Yeah, ostensibly there is, there

is a genetic aspect to this a and to

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which we should probably be thankful

to our ancestors because if they

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hadn't had such honed fear responses,

they wouldn't have survived to have

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bred and for us to be here today.

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So, you know, the, the ancestors with, uh,

well probably not ancestors really, but

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the ancient peoples with the, um, lowered

fear response or with the faulty fear

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response probably didn't survive because

there was daily, um, physical danger.

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Now your life would be in danger on a

regular basis in those times where things

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were a lot more survival based perhaps.

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Uh, and so, you know.

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The thing is we don't need that

level of fear now in generally in

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modern life, but our brains have yet

to evolve past it, and I must think

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maybe there is some progress there.

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We still have a much higher fear response,

a much higher negative focus aspect

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in our brains, which historically has

been very helpful to survival, but now

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potentially impacts and interferes with

survival and success, particularly in,

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in going forward because we often end up

not taking the action or backing away or

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hiding away in an attempt to feel safe.

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James Killgariff: Yeah.

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And so that then becomes your paradigm

and you end up thinking, I'd rather

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be safe and quiet and hide away.

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Because if I, if I try and break out,

um, I'm gonna feel scared and unsafe.

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That's it.

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A lot of it from my experience

was that suddenly I, I, I,

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I associated safety with danger.

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If I'm safe.

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If I relax too much,

something bad's gonna happen.

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Says the mind

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John: Right.

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James Killgariff: again.

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It's the brain link linking,

linking beliefs, and, and it's

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happening at my lightning speed.

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Oh.

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Uh, so, so I, but, you know,

rational, think, well, I'm

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safe, there's something wrong.

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No, there's no one's gonna come

and beat me up or whatever.

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Everything's is fine, but we're

talking about irrational stuff.

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John: We are, and, and I think some of

the danger with this, and certainly I,

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I've had personal experiences, I think

probably we all have, we end up thinking

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it's something wrong with us or we end up

thinking that we are weak or we are broken

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or, or whatever it is that the reality

is, uh, we are not, we're just normal

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human beings who have the same issues as

everyone else, but, uh, maybe don't have

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the mechanisms or, uh, responses or, uh.

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The way forward.

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We don't, haven't, haven't got a guide

for the way forward as to how do we move

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outta this because I think ultimately

you, you want to keep yourself safe.

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It's a very natural human response, but.

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What ends up happening a lot of

the time is that you also end up

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then feeling frustrated and limited

and that you're not really living

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your life as fully as you could be.

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And that's a problem.

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That really, to me, that's the,

that's the bigger problem for

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me of people not being able to.

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Properly least sort of personal

development or not to be able to

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self-actualize and to, to raise themselves

up the ladder of self-actualization to

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become more than they are right now.

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Because without that ability to progress,

without that ability to move forward with

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things that would bring more fulfillment

in our lives, we're gonna feel empty.

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We're gonna feel limited, undoubtedly.

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James Killgariff: Yeah.

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I mean, there comes a uh, point

where you say, I'm gonna stop feeling

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afraid, even though I'm feeling shit

scared at the moment about things.

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You, you reach a point where it's

deep down you think enough is enough.

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So sometimes you need need

to reach a decision point.

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So I'm done with this.

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I'm still feeling scared.

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And also admit that if

you're scared, you're scared.

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If you're afraid, you're afraid

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John: Yeah.

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James Killgariff: life.

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It's just, it is just a thought.

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To me, it's a feeling,

but it's also a thought.

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So really what, what fear is, is

lots of thoughts or fear being

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translated into feelings, and

you have these body sensations.

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You mentioned about having a

headache the other week and so on.

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Me as well.

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Pressure in the head, uh,

tightness in the chest.

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I mean, the body's very clever

because it's just given you

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feedback as the way you're thinking.

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There's nothing wrong about about that.

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It's just the, the, the, the what?

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The body doesn't lie.

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The thoughts lie.

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Our thinking lies, as you said.

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There's nothing wrong with us.

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John: Yeah.

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James Killgariff: And one issue about the

personal development industry, you, you

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and I have been in it for years, is there

is, um, a, a, a belief there, there is

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something wrong with me and I'm flawed.

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Really deep down, it's a bit

like the wave in the ocean.

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You are the ocean, but

you think you're the wave,

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John: Right.

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James Killgariff: And there's

something wrong with the wave.

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No, you're actually the ocean.

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But we don't see it.

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We're too caught up with I am the wave.

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Well actually the wave in the

ocean's part of the same thing.

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But when you really see it that there is

actually nothing wrong with you or me.

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All it is, is our imagination,

our thoughts and our beliefs.

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That's the thing that's needs to be

looked at and, and, and let go of.

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John: Yeah, I definitely have never

liked the idea that we might be broken

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or, um, yeah, as you say, le less than

or yeah, we need to let go of those

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old ideas that something wrong with us.

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Um, we generally know when there is,

so we know because it's something that.

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We probably would need specialized

help to resolve if, if there is

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something that wrong with us.

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But I think because we have these

physical responses to stuff,

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it, it feels very, very real.

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And you bring up something really,

really valid, really important about,

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our brains are always, uh, checking

in on our emotions, being guided by

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our physical feelings and responses.

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And so.

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A lot of how we feel, a lot of our

emotional state is dependent on how our

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brain is interpreting what's going on in

our body, the feelings that are coming up.

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And, and this is particularly relevant

'cause one of the things that was

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definitely, I think was holding

me back and ended up being a big

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personal breakthrough for me was, uh,

when I first started learning to do.

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Public speaking, when I first

started learning to get on a

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stage and, and speak to people.

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'cause that's scary and most people

were saying, it's often listed as one of

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people's biggest fears is public speaking.

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And certainly, I, I had fear around it.

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But when I actually started doing it,

one of the reframes that comes up that

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I still use, I, I use it with my clients

because it is such a valuable reframe.

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It's a, a reframe on the interpretation

of your body signals, because the

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feeling of nerves before going up

on stage to speak is pretty much the

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same as the feeling of excitement.

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They, they are almost indistinguishable.

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So reframing that nervous feeling to a

feeling of excitement allowed me to go

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and do say, all right, I'm, I'm excited.

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I think that really sparked this

passion for speaking as well, which

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I, it does happen for a lot of people

who have this reframe of saying,

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alright, but your body's giving these

responses, but how you can choose

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how you're gonna interpret them.

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And that's really

powerful to know you can.

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You can redefine, you can reframe your

own brain's interpretation of its bodily

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signals in certain situations that

might, or that you would've interpreted

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previously as a massive fear response.

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The kind of fear response that I've

seen has people sometimes running

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away from a stage in tears because

they just can't do it, um, because

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they haven't been able to reframe this

as, as excitement rather than fear.

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James Killgariff: like that when I'm,

I'm speaking within group coaching.

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Remember when I first started, I was

quite scared about in front of all

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these people in group coaching, but

I just thought, wow, what a growth

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opportunity this is the reframe.

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Um, my mind says, no,

no, you're not up for it.

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You're not good enough.

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Who's gonna listen to you?

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Blah, blah, blah.

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All that story, but.

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In spite of that, I thought,

wow, this is an opportunity.

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Because the more fear I feel, the more

there is a, we're talking about the burn.

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I'm in the burn right now.

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It's like going to the gym.

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Wow.

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More fear.

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That means there's, there's an opportunity

to garner a bit more power in myself.

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Don't like it.

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But as you say, getting up on

stage, speaking to all these

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people, it's a scary thing.

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John: Yeah, people, uh, people often talk

about fear of success and fear of failure.

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This is generally the terms in

which I hear my clients frame.

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This may, maybe you've heard

that as well from clients, but,

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um, usually it's those two.

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I have fear of failure.

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I have fear of success that I think

they're the, they're the wrong frames.

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I don't think that's actually

what they're afraid of.

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I think fear of failure is fear of loss.

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It's fear of.

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Fear of loss of status

as much as anything else.

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And fear of success is, is a kind of

loss as well because it's a loss of your

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current identity to have to shift into

something that you have uncertainty about

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right now, which is a version of you that

you don't know that you can be just yet.

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And that's the real fear is like the fear

of making that kind of shift and the loss

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of who you are or where you are right now.

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And, and to some degree, the loss of.

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The loss of certainty as much

as we can ever have that in our

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lives, our brains like to be able

to predict what's coming next.

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We know more or less day to

day what we're gonna be facing.

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We know more or less what

kind of experiences we're

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gonna be having day to day.

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And when things take us outta

what is easily predictable, we get

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taken outta that sense of security.

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That sense of wellbeing.

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A comfort, if you like, we call

it, we can call it the comfort

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zone 'cause it kind of is.

290

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We get placed into uncertainty, and

that's where we have the threats

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of loss, the threats of change, the

threats of, um, things going beyond

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what we're comfortable with or what

we can competently or confidently

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deal with, and the fear kicks in.

294

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That's my framework.

295

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Would you agree with that

or is there anything you'd

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James Killgariff: You know,

you mentioned about identity.

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You know, if you are looking to get

to the next level, whether it's your

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health, your business, whatever, in

a way, you've gotta let go of an old

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identity and, and identity's a story.

300

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But it's so convincing.

301

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Who the hell am I gonna

be without my story?

302

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It's a scary prospect for the brain.

303

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'cause you dunno what, it's a bit like

going from a caterpillar to a butterfly.

304

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The caterpillar has no idea

what a butterfly looks like.

305

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It goes through this tremendous process

of metamorphosis and so on in the

306

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cocoon, and then it, and it comes out.

307

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But, um, our brains want to

keep us in the comfort zone.

308

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But the thing is the growth

happens outside the comfort zone.

309

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And that's one big thing

in the person development.

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Well, we'll have, but you, you know,

um, if you think you're gonna grow

311

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and you want guarantees and you

want everything to be, um, safe.

312

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Well, you ain't gonna grow.

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John: Yeah, exactly.

314

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The.

315

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We are not the first people

to be thinking about this.

316

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There's no doubt about that.

317

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And it does remind me of that.

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It is really, I think it's kind of a,

an ancient sort of, um, uh, phrase if

319

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you like, or, or you call it parable

or you know, the, the idea of you

320

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can't step into the same river twice

because you are, you are not the

321

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same person and the river isn't the

same river, it's not the same water.

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Um, that, that is life.

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So.

324

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Is the saying, they're like, well,

you don't want to change, but you

325

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will because change is inevitable.

326

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Uh, you don't really want to be

the same person next week as you

327

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are this week because you grow,

you learn new things, you develop.

328

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We are not the same person we were

yesterday or last week or the month,

329

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last month or last year, and on and on.

330

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We develop, we change, oh.

331

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Um, this whole idea of like this concept

of our personality being fixed or

332

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permanent isn't true because we do change.

333

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We can sometimes change massively.

334

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We can have really massive shifts

that could change, um, our own

335

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and other people's ideas, concepts

of who we are potentially.

336

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And that can be for good and

for bad, obviously, but it

337

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can go in both directions.

338

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But.

339

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The change, the potential is, is

there, but we are often so locked

340

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in, in this story and it is just a

story, as you say, of, of who we are.

341

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That gives us comfort.

342

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That often.

343

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We'll, we'll stay there because we can

confidently say, oh, this is who I am.

344

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This is who I feel comfortable.

345

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And without having to challenge ourselves,

without having to feel that we have to

346

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grow and develop it, but it will change.

347

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Change will happen whether

you resist it or not.

348

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But the thing is, if you don't do

this or you don't go with it, if you

349

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do resist it, really the way that

you're gonna go is, is stagnation.

350

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Trying to stay where you are will result

in stagnation, it will result in a kind

351

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of slow death, if you like, or, um,

352

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James Killgariff: and then you feel

unhappy, and then you, then you get

353

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depressed, then you're in a rut,

then you procrastinate, and then it's

354

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like a, a momentum me Momentum either

goes that way or it goes that way.

355

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John: Right.

356

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James Killgariff: of

357

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John: what happens, what happens

to water when it can't flow?

358

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It becomes stagnant

359

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James Killgariff: stagnant and, yeah.

360

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Awful smells.

361

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Yeah.

362

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John: It smells bad.

363

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All sorts of, all sorts

of horrible things.

364

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It, it is, it's a good metaphor for us

when we, we are what we maybe made a, a

365

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lot of is made after water, but, um, we

don't wanna become stagnant in our lives.

366

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And, and I think many of us have

that experience in trying to stay

367

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safe, trying to stay comfortable.

368

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That really is it.

369

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So it is, to me, the real,

the choice becomes very real.

370

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Like I've, I got to a point in

my life years ago before I ever

371

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got into personal development.

372

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Where I recognized that I felt like

I was more of a passive observer

373

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of life than an active participant.

374

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I made the choice that I wasn't

happy about that, that I felt like

375

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I really wanted and needed to be an

active participant in my own life.

376

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And that decision changed so much for me.

377

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Like the, the world shifted just on

that one decision for me, and things

378

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were never the same after that.

379

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So once you have expanded.

380

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can't go back to where you were before.

381

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You know, the, the whole shape

of who you are changes and you

382

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can't go back to where you were.

383

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And so we have to, we

have to be expanding.

384

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But the question comes down to this of

how do you want to experience your life?

385

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Do you want to experience your

life feeling safe and shut off from

386

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everything and, and trying to stay

at the same level you are right now?

387

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Or do you actually want to have growth

but you're just not sure that you

388

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can achieve it or you might fail or

things could go wrong, but you want

389

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to, you want to have those things.

390

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Yeah, sure.

391

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It'd be nice, but I'm not sure.

392

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It's for me.

393

00:20:52,104 --> 00:20:54,294

I'm not sure I'm up for it

or I can do it, you know?

394

00:20:54,294 --> 00:20:54,564

I

395

00:20:54,594 --> 00:20:56,904

James Killgariff: if I try something,

I'm gonna become disappointed,

396

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so I don't do anything and

therefore, therefore I'm safe.

397

00:20:59,724 --> 00:21:00,654

Or, um,

398

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John: And potentially

399

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James Killgariff: that's the mind.

400

00:21:03,654 --> 00:21:08,454

The egos keeping you in

a small, small universe.

401

00:21:08,454 --> 00:21:10,284

When there is, we're

much bigger than that.

402

00:21:10,284 --> 00:21:15,084

I mean, every one of us are, we are huge,

but we just don't have a sense of that.

403

00:21:15,204 --> 00:21:17,417

We are, as I say, it's a

bit like we are the ocean.

404

00:21:17,574 --> 00:21:19,644

Not, not, not the wave.

405

00:21:20,417 --> 00:21:23,124

We actually, we are both,

but we, we've forgotten.

406

00:21:23,124 --> 00:21:27,594

We're the ocean, this vast

ocean, we are another metaphor.

407

00:21:27,594 --> 00:21:29,364

We're the sky and then there's the clouds.

408

00:21:29,364 --> 00:21:32,994

The clouds with the thoughts and then, but

we're this huge sky, but we've forgotten.

409

00:21:32,994 --> 00:21:34,074

We're a sc the sky.

410

00:21:35,169 --> 00:21:39,009

John: How many times have you heard

from clients that, um, they've,

411

00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:40,629

they've tried it before and failed.

412

00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:42,189

Hey, they said, wanna do this?

413

00:21:42,189 --> 00:21:43,809

Yeah, but I tried before and I failed.

414

00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:45,969

They're like, well, did you try again?

415

00:21:47,049 --> 00:21:47,949

Did you, did you keep trying?

416

00:21:48,429 --> 00:21:51,069

Because failure doesn't mean

you're not gonna get there.

417

00:21:51,174 --> 00:21:53,049

Failure means you tried

something that didn't work.

418

00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:56,024

Now that maybe didn't work because

you didn't put enough effort in.

419

00:21:56,829 --> 00:21:59,319

Maybe it didn't work because it wasn't

the right time, or you weren't doing

420

00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,899

the right things, or you didn't have

the right guidance or mentorship.

421

00:22:01,899 --> 00:22:06,969

There could be a million reasons

why it didn't work, but why should

422

00:22:06,969 --> 00:22:08,289

that mean that you don't try again?

423

00:22:08,889 --> 00:22:10,779

What does that mean that

you don't go for it again?

424

00:22:10,779 --> 00:22:13,959

James Killgariff: when, when kids learn

to walk, don't, they fall down about, I

425

00:22:13,959 --> 00:22:17,829

don't know, a hundred times before they

start walking, they don't think about it.

426

00:22:17,889 --> 00:22:19,719

They carry stand up or down, stand up.

427

00:22:20,349 --> 00:22:22,989

But what happens is that we've got

all these programs and all these

428

00:22:22,989 --> 00:22:25,809

stories and think, no, I tried it.

429

00:22:26,049 --> 00:22:28,899

I tried, uh, starting this

business and it failed.

430

00:22:28,899 --> 00:22:30,429

I must, I, I must be no good at it.

431

00:22:30,999 --> 00:22:32,379

It runs in the family.

432

00:22:33,129 --> 00:22:37,809

Um, my friends also tell me what my

hell am I doing trying to do this?

433

00:22:38,529 --> 00:22:39,159

John: right.

434

00:22:39,249 --> 00:22:40,329

James Killgariff: these, all these things.

435

00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:41,349

And so, yeah.

436

00:22:41,349 --> 00:22:44,229

Yeah, they're, they're probably right

'cause I failed and they, they've proved

437

00:22:44,229 --> 00:22:46,539

to me I'm not, I'm, I'm not a success.

438

00:22:47,439 --> 00:22:48,789

And other people will say, no, no.

439

00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:49,509

I'm gonna try again.

440

00:22:49,509 --> 00:22:51,549

You, I mean, at the end of

the day, you try shit out.

441

00:22:51,549 --> 00:22:54,969

You keep trying and trying and trying

until you get your own little formula.

442

00:22:55,929 --> 00:22:57,699

got their own little formula for success.

443

00:22:58,479 --> 00:23:02,139

John: I I'm not saying that there aren't

times where you have a big fall and

444

00:23:02,139 --> 00:23:05,319

something doesn't go right, and you maybe

need a little time to recover yourself.

445

00:23:05,499 --> 00:23:06,009

Sure.

446

00:23:06,069 --> 00:23:07,899

You know, I, I think we've all been there.

447

00:23:08,139 --> 00:23:12,249

We, you have to give yourself some

grace there, but yeah, you absolutely

448

00:23:12,249 --> 00:23:17,619

demonstrate there how, how easy it

is to buy into and reinforce these

449

00:23:17,619 --> 00:23:22,599

stories we create about ourselves,

um, because they feel so real.

450

00:23:23,184 --> 00:23:26,784

They feel so real, but they are

just stories in our head and

451

00:23:26,784 --> 00:23:28,224

they don't have to stay that way.

452

00:23:28,734 --> 00:23:29,694

But yeah, sure.

453

00:23:29,694 --> 00:23:31,704

Maybe you'll try again and

maybe you'll fail again.

454

00:23:32,454 --> 00:23:33,414

But that's life.

455

00:23:33,804 --> 00:23:34,134

Right?

456

00:23:34,164 --> 00:23:34,944

That's life.

457

00:23:35,244 --> 00:23:36,264

What do you do as you say?

458

00:23:37,524 --> 00:23:40,254

There's a, the child fall down

a few times as I, that's it.

459

00:23:40,254 --> 00:23:42,264

I, I'm not never gonna be a walker.

460

00:23:42,264 --> 00:23:44,904

I'm just gonna stay down

here and crawl on the ground.

461

00:23:45,399 --> 00:23:47,199

James Killgariff: Stay out there

for whatever the rest of my life.

462

00:23:47,409 --> 00:23:48,159

I mean, no.

463

00:23:48,489 --> 00:23:49,059

Uh, no.

464

00:23:49,059 --> 00:23:52,089

I mean, I heard once, there's

no such thing as failure.

465

00:23:52,089 --> 00:23:53,019

Just feedback.

466

00:23:53,139 --> 00:23:54,219

Feedback, okay.

467

00:23:54,219 --> 00:23:58,449

This business, I tried this, the

feedback is I was in the wrong market.

468

00:23:58,689 --> 00:24:02,889

Um, I didn't understand the market

dynamics, whatever the product

469

00:24:02,889 --> 00:24:04,269

was to expend, just feedback.

470

00:24:05,724 --> 00:24:08,394

John: and, and it is, and it's very

hard to think about, but sometimes,

471

00:24:08,874 --> 00:24:10,824

but here's the thing, like feedback

sounds like it should be this

472

00:24:10,824 --> 00:24:13,434

dispassionate thing, something that

we're not personally connected to.

473

00:24:13,434 --> 00:24:14,569

Feedback is very personal.

474

00:24:15,249 --> 00:24:16,059

It really is.

475

00:24:16,089 --> 00:24:20,229

It is personal and it should be personal,

and you should take it personally.

476

00:24:20,769 --> 00:24:21,369

As much as we say.

477

00:24:21,639 --> 00:24:22,629

Don't take feedback personally.

478

00:24:22,629 --> 00:24:25,779

You don't take it personally

because you need to grow from it.

479

00:24:25,959 --> 00:24:27,129

You need to develop from it.

480

00:24:27,129 --> 00:24:30,069

If you don't take it personally, I

think you're not taking it seriously.

481

00:24:30,579 --> 00:24:34,689

You have to take it personally, but not to

the point where you need to be upset or.

482

00:24:34,969 --> 00:24:38,029

You know, deal with, if, if emotions

come up for you, deal with it,

483

00:24:38,029 --> 00:24:40,279

get through it, you will, you'll

get to the other side of it.

484

00:24:40,819 --> 00:24:45,469

But if you are, if it gets to the

point where you say, oh, you take it so

485

00:24:45,469 --> 00:24:48,109

personally that you get to a point where

you don't feel that you can hear feedback

486

00:24:48,109 --> 00:24:50,329

again from somebody else, then okay.

487

00:24:50,329 --> 00:24:50,569

Yeah.

488

00:24:50,569 --> 00:24:51,829

You, you, uh.

489

00:24:52,104 --> 00:24:54,804

You maybe need to take a step back

from taking stuff personally, but

490

00:24:54,804 --> 00:24:59,424

there's lessons here for you that you

need to personally apply to your life.

491

00:24:59,424 --> 00:25:01,104

And that's why I say take it personally.

492

00:25:01,524 --> 00:25:03,594

Take it personally as in care about it.

493

00:25:03,594 --> 00:25:08,094

Take it personally as in be hungry

for the feedback that people can give

494

00:25:08,094 --> 00:25:11,004

you or that life can give you, but.

495

00:25:11,604 --> 00:25:16,284

Keep going because this whole idea that

failure means that, uh, everything,

496

00:25:16,344 --> 00:25:21,024

everything has gone to hell and

there's no way forward is false.

497

00:25:21,643 --> 00:25:23,904

Failure isn't the opposite of success.

498

00:25:23,904 --> 00:25:27,594

It's, it's just a stop on the

stop you make on the journey.

499

00:25:28,314 --> 00:25:32,454

And sometimes we make that stop

more times than we care to, but

500

00:25:32,604 --> 00:25:35,874

it's a stop we make on the journey

to greater success and sure.

501

00:25:36,639 --> 00:25:38,199

You may well go through life.

502

00:25:38,289 --> 00:25:41,649

It could happen that you go through life

never really hitting the success you want

503

00:25:41,649 --> 00:25:45,339

to, but would you want to get to the end

of your life knowing that you'd at least

504

00:25:45,339 --> 00:25:48,279

tried or think or thinking, looking back,

505

00:25:48,349 --> 00:25:49,039

James Killgariff: gave it a go.

506

00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:49,579

Didn't work

507

00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:50,349

John: You gave up.

508

00:25:50,869 --> 00:25:51,139

James Killgariff: Yeah.

509

00:25:51,199 --> 00:25:54,799

But I, I am not, not, I am a failure.

510

00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:56,299

That's just, okay.

511

00:25:56,299 --> 00:25:57,649

I failed here, failed there.

512

00:25:57,649 --> 00:25:58,369

I succeeded there.

513

00:25:58,369 --> 00:25:58,939

I succeeded.

514

00:25:58,939 --> 00:26:02,929

But ultimately, we're not, we're

not, we didn't come here as failures.

515

00:26:03,474 --> 00:26:03,694

We

516

00:26:04,164 --> 00:26:05,064

John: Right, and,

517

00:26:05,149 --> 00:26:05,419

James Killgariff: weren't

518

00:26:05,719 --> 00:26:06,954

John: become your identity.

519

00:26:07,284 --> 00:26:08,544

James Killgariff: We become an identity.

520

00:26:08,544 --> 00:26:10,224

You talked about limiter loops.

521

00:26:10,224 --> 00:26:12,744

Uh, we talked about it the other

day and, and stuff like that.

522

00:26:12,774 --> 00:26:14,874

So this, these loops keep going on.

523

00:26:15,174 --> 00:26:15,834

I'm a failure.

524

00:26:15,834 --> 00:26:16,524

I'm a failure.

525

00:26:16,974 --> 00:26:19,554

The other thing you mentioned about

getting feedback from people, that's good

526

00:26:19,974 --> 00:26:21,684

as long as the people are supportive.

527

00:26:21,684 --> 00:26:24,954

What you don't want is to have

someone, a friend of yours

528

00:26:24,954 --> 00:26:26,184

is complaining all the time.

529

00:26:26,724 --> 00:26:29,454

And says, and you said, well, I had

this business and it didn't work.

530

00:26:29,484 --> 00:26:29,694

You see?

531

00:26:29,694 --> 00:26:30,624

I told you so.

532

00:26:31,164 --> 00:26:31,434

Yeah.

533

00:26:31,434 --> 00:26:36,294

I, so rather than, I mean, that's why I

do, we do coaching is like, we support

534

00:26:36,294 --> 00:26:39,384

people and I say, go find a coach.

535

00:26:39,414 --> 00:26:44,034

You want to find, if not, find

a, a, a supportive friend who's

536

00:26:44,034 --> 00:26:48,474

gonna listen to you and give you,

you know, constructive feedback.

537

00:26:49,189 --> 00:26:52,249

John: Yeah, look, you don't want

business advice from Barry down

538

00:26:52,249 --> 00:26:53,719

the pub after he's had a few pints.

539

00:26:53,719 --> 00:26:53,899

You know?

540

00:26:54,229 --> 00:26:55,909

Um, it's not not gonna help you.

541

00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:59,719

You, you want feedback from the right

places and from the right people, from,

542

00:26:59,719 --> 00:27:03,259

from environments that, but it still needs

to be feedback that's gonna be useful.

543

00:27:03,619 --> 00:27:06,829

But I still think most feedback can

be useful if you apply the right

544

00:27:06,829 --> 00:27:11,794

frames to it, even from potentially

negative sources, um, because it, it

545

00:27:11,794 --> 00:27:13,834

can help to give you that resolve.

546

00:27:14,254 --> 00:27:18,154

Now I think if you do find yourself

completely surrounded by people who

547

00:27:18,244 --> 00:27:20,674

don't get you, or don't get what

you're trying to do or don't support

548

00:27:20,674 --> 00:27:24,664

you in any way, then you do need to

start finding some people that you

549

00:27:24,664 --> 00:27:26,254

can have in your life or some groups.

550

00:27:26,494 --> 00:27:31,384

Where you can at least spend some time

with people who are more positive, more

551

00:27:31,384 --> 00:27:35,524

encouraging, maybe a bit further ahead

in the game than you are right now,

552

00:27:35,524 --> 00:27:37,234

so that they can help to pull you up.

553

00:27:37,714 --> 00:27:41,194

Um, because if you don't have that in your

life, if you need that, we all need that.

554

00:27:41,194 --> 00:27:44,494

Our, our environment, as our

friend has says, your environment

555

00:27:44,494 --> 00:27:45,814

is stronger than willpower.

556

00:27:46,419 --> 00:27:47,139

James Killgariff: Exactly

557

00:27:47,164 --> 00:27:51,214

John: So what you surround yourself

with will influence your outcomes.

558

00:27:51,509 --> 00:27:51,799

Yeah.

559

00:27:51,969 --> 00:27:53,949

James Killgariff: Now you mentioned

something about, 'cause you do speaking

560

00:27:53,949 --> 00:27:59,679

on stage and uh, you mentioned about how

a particular speaking association, where

561

00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:02,169

you live, how about particular view?

562

00:28:02,169 --> 00:28:07,599

And then you spoke to somebody else who

had a, a much wider perspective, right?

563

00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:11,559

So who you hang out with is who

you become, and she was much more.

564

00:28:12,894 --> 00:28:14,514

Wider view rather.

565

00:28:14,514 --> 00:28:14,754

Yeah.

566

00:28:14,754 --> 00:28:17,784

Rather than this limited perception

about what you can do in terms

567

00:28:17,784 --> 00:28:18,899

of making money as a speaker.

568

00:28:19,784 --> 00:28:23,349

John: And, and I had bought into this

whole thing of, right, well, they're,

569

00:28:23,349 --> 00:28:26,439

they're in this big speaking organization,

they must know what they're talking about.

570

00:28:26,439 --> 00:28:29,799

And they don't know anyone who's at

the level that I would want to get to

571

00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:31,959

as a speaker who's outside of the us.

572

00:28:32,259 --> 00:28:34,779

And then I speak to this

other lady who's like, oh, no,

573

00:28:34,779 --> 00:28:36,309

those, those speakers do exist.

574

00:28:36,309 --> 00:28:36,969

They are real.

575

00:28:36,969 --> 00:28:37,364

And uh, uh.

576

00:28:38,289 --> 00:28:39,639

I needed to hear that.

577

00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:41,409

I needed to know that that's real.

578

00:28:41,619 --> 00:28:43,779

And she said, yeah, they're just not,

they're probably just not in that

579

00:28:43,779 --> 00:28:45,939

organization or, or not very active in it.

580

00:28:46,209 --> 00:28:47,799

And so those people

don't know who they are.

581

00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:51,069

But, uh, so we buy into these stories.

582

00:28:51,129 --> 00:28:54,339

That was just a story,

but it seemed very real.

583

00:28:54,339 --> 00:28:58,719

And I was hearing from sources

who I assumed had knowledge

584

00:28:58,719 --> 00:29:01,509

and understanding beyond mine.

585

00:29:01,929 --> 00:29:03,579

That must be the case.

586

00:29:04,029 --> 00:29:06,339

And then it turns out, eh, maybe not.

587

00:29:06,369 --> 00:29:09,099

Maybe that's not, well, not,

maybe it's actually not the case.

588

00:29:09,334 --> 00:29:13,329

Uh, and that limitation, uh,

ends up becoming self-imposed

589

00:29:13,329 --> 00:29:14,349

without us even realizing

590

00:29:14,454 --> 00:29:14,649

James Killgariff: Yeah.

591

00:29:15,204 --> 00:29:15,984

Yeah, exactly.

592

00:29:16,389 --> 00:29:18,669

John: so easy to buy into these things.

593

00:29:18,669 --> 00:29:21,909

And, and the environment, uh,

who you spend time with, who

594

00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:23,349

you talk to really does matter.

595

00:29:24,234 --> 00:29:24,504

James Killgariff: yeah.

596

00:29:24,774 --> 00:29:25,074

Yeah.

597

00:29:25,524 --> 00:29:29,664

So you know, and if you have a fear so

that it's important to hang out with

598

00:29:29,664 --> 00:29:32,784

the right kind of people, supportive

feedback, the right kind of feedback.

599

00:29:33,264 --> 00:29:37,854

If you have a fear, let's just say that,

oh, I'm a failure because I tried this and

600

00:29:37,854 --> 00:29:39,624

it didn't work, so I must be a failure.

601

00:29:39,954 --> 00:29:41,664

Ask yourself the question, is that true?

602

00:29:43,299 --> 00:29:47,049

It might just stop the mind from giving

you this loop you're talking about.

603

00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:50,169

It may not, but no, I'm not

a failure 'cause I fail.

604

00:29:50,169 --> 00:29:53,529

I succeeded this and that

and I, I succeeded in my,

605

00:29:53,529 --> 00:29:54,909

in, in keeping myself fit.

606

00:29:54,939 --> 00:29:57,369

I've succeeded in having a great marriage.

607

00:29:57,549 --> 00:30:03,609

No, I'm not a failure, but I, maybe

I failed starting up my website

608

00:30:03,609 --> 00:30:08,769

and doing this business, but, uh,

it's not true that I am a failure.

609

00:30:09,009 --> 00:30:09,459

It's.

610

00:30:09,609 --> 00:30:10,814

John: is your whole identity.

611

00:30:11,054 --> 00:30:11,334

Yeah,

612

00:30:11,394 --> 00:30:11,724

James Killgariff: things I

613

00:30:11,724 --> 00:30:12,774

feel Yeah.

614

00:30:13,074 --> 00:30:17,004

John: If you then go on and ask yourself,

um, is it possible that that isn't true?

615

00:30:17,004 --> 00:30:19,974

Or can I find examples in my life

where I have not been a failure?

616

00:30:19,974 --> 00:30:20,334

Yeah.

617

00:30:20,379 --> 00:30:22,404

You, you will find, you will find those.

618

00:30:22,674 --> 00:30:26,154

Nobody's going through their life,

failing at absolutely everything they do.

619

00:30:26,184 --> 00:30:27,054

'cause they're not still here.

620

00:30:27,054 --> 00:30:28,014

They failed at everything.

621

00:30:28,764 --> 00:30:30,594

So they failed in survival.

622

00:30:30,804 --> 00:30:33,414

Maybe that's, maybe that's one

of the few things you can find

623

00:30:33,414 --> 00:30:34,854

that you, you haven't failed at.

624

00:30:34,854 --> 00:30:36,354

You're still here, you're still going.

625

00:30:36,774 --> 00:30:36,954

Um.

626

00:30:37,399 --> 00:30:40,699

You haven't failed, but you, we can

all find examples in our life where

627

00:30:40,699 --> 00:30:43,909

we haven't failed that, but it's like,

well, what would you want to be true?

628

00:30:44,539 --> 00:30:46,189

What would you want the story to be?

629

00:30:47,349 --> 00:30:50,769

Then can you start doing something

to move yourself towards that?

630

00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:54,939

Because the one of the conversation

we were having before we go, and

631

00:30:54,939 --> 00:30:59,889

this is really about how fear

can feel so physically real and

632

00:30:59,889 --> 00:31:02,379

with all this talk about this,

how we associate it in our body.

633

00:31:02,889 --> 00:31:06,579

Um, that the fear responses can

come up, uh, with stress, but

634

00:31:06,579 --> 00:31:10,059

stress can manifest itself in

multiple ways that feel very real.

635

00:31:10,299 --> 00:31:11,859

So it was talking about

that, the headaches.

636

00:31:12,069 --> 00:31:12,999

I was getting brain

637

00:31:13,194 --> 00:31:16,164

James Killgariff: nor I've got this,

nor nor nausea, bowel movements,

638

00:31:16,194 --> 00:31:19,674

uh, tunnel vision, sweaty palms.

639

00:31:19,674 --> 00:31:22,404

These are just, this is just a body

registering that you've got some

640

00:31:22,584 --> 00:31:24,234

lots of fear thinking right now.

641

00:31:24,744 --> 00:31:27,624

John: Right, but you can feel like there's

something physically wrong with you.

642

00:31:27,894 --> 00:31:30,984

We were both saying you, you thought

there was something wrong with you.

643

00:31:30,984 --> 00:31:33,744

I, I thought maybe I needed

an MRI or something last week

644

00:31:33,744 --> 00:31:35,694

because I was, my head was.

645

00:31:36,174 --> 00:31:39,864

My head was such a mess last week and

it was just this fear response that was

646

00:31:39,864 --> 00:31:45,234

coming up and I couldn't fully control

it, but this time I recognized it.

647

00:31:45,264 --> 00:31:49,584

Whereas I think previously I just

thought it was, um, something going on.

648

00:31:50,154 --> 00:31:54,924

So headaches coming up or overload,

mental overload, didn't really

649

00:31:54,924 --> 00:31:58,284

recognize it for what it was, but

ultimately that that was the thing.

650

00:31:58,584 --> 00:31:59,634

So, you know,

651

00:31:59,829 --> 00:32:01,299

James Killgariff: You

mentioned action, by the way.

652

00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:04,359

Uh, if you don't act, then the

fear's just gonna keep you in a,

653

00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:05,829

in a, in a little bubble, right?

654

00:32:05,829 --> 00:32:10,359

So, uh, I, I, I, I talked about

how I did a list of all my fears

655

00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:11,799

and I start with the small ones.

656

00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:16,119

Like when I was in London, I had

a real kind of like anxiety about

657

00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:20,409

going into London Underground,

the metro, especially busy times.

658

00:32:20,469 --> 00:32:22,719

And my mind says, no, don't,

don't feel like doing it.

659

00:32:22,719 --> 00:32:23,199

So I did it.

660

00:32:23,259 --> 00:32:26,979

It was a small fear, but it,

it was palpable inside me.

661

00:32:26,979 --> 00:32:30,819

And I, I did it for a few days and then

suddenly I thought, well, I can do this.

662

00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:31,419

John: And.

663

00:32:31,899 --> 00:32:33,519

James Killgariff: Or you

might fear of spiders.

664

00:32:33,729 --> 00:32:35,499

Well be in the room with a spider.

665

00:32:35,649 --> 00:32:37,089

Try, you know, edge into it.

666

00:32:37,089 --> 00:32:39,099

Take action as it.

667

00:32:39,099 --> 00:32:41,859

There was a book, uh, uh, written

years ago called The Magic of Thinking

668

00:32:41,859 --> 00:32:44,439

Big, and he said, action cures Fear.

669

00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:49,359

Well, when you do something about

the fear, the fear starts reducing.

670

00:32:50,034 --> 00:32:53,844

The other thing is fear will always be

with me as long as I continue to grow.

671

00:32:54,364 --> 00:32:56,019

John: yeah, yeah.

672

00:32:56,034 --> 00:32:58,824

James Killgariff: you grow, the more

fear will come around to try and

673

00:32:58,824 --> 00:33:00,324

say, stop you and say, no, no, no.

674

00:33:00,324 --> 00:33:01,284

That's not who you are.

675

00:33:01,974 --> 00:33:02,604

John: A hundred percent.

676

00:33:02,604 --> 00:33:06,834

I agree that action, action is the

cure for fear, but it's not, it's not

677

00:33:06,834 --> 00:33:10,464

always having to be, it doesn't always

have to be massive sweeping action.

678

00:33:10,494 --> 00:33:12,654

'cause that becomes even

more scary sometimes.

679

00:33:12,864 --> 00:33:13,644

But action.

680

00:33:13,944 --> 00:33:16,194

And I used to follow a guy called, um.

681

00:33:16,404 --> 00:33:20,064

Dan Millman is like the, um,

may have heard him the, uh,

682

00:33:20,514 --> 00:33:22,134

obviously the peaceful warrior guy.

683

00:33:22,404 --> 00:33:22,704

Yeah.

684

00:33:22,869 --> 00:33:25,764

But, uh, and so I went to see

him speak in London one time.

685

00:33:25,764 --> 00:33:26,964

Super nice guy.

686

00:33:26,994 --> 00:33:31,074

And, uh, and, and one of the things

that he says is some of, is, some of his

687

00:33:31,074 --> 00:33:35,244

talks is about, you know, sometimes the

action you take is just going for a walk.

688

00:33:35,634 --> 00:33:38,939

Cleaning the house or something,

just so you're taking some action.

689

00:33:39,144 --> 00:33:42,144

So you're, it's not always direct

action to the thing that you're doing,

690

00:33:42,144 --> 00:33:44,034

but just getting into an action habit.

691

00:33:44,454 --> 00:33:47,574

But it then, it, it needs to build

up to becoming more direct and, and

692

00:33:47,574 --> 00:33:52,404

more, uh, direct directed to what you

want to, uh, move forward within life.

693

00:33:52,404 --> 00:33:54,894

But sometimes we just need to

get ourselves doing something.

694

00:33:54,894 --> 00:33:59,394

So if you are in a bit of a slump

or feeling the lethargy or shutting

695

00:33:59,394 --> 00:34:00,744

yourself off because you're.

696

00:34:00,814 --> 00:34:03,814

You know, you feeling the failure

and feeling all the, the world

697

00:34:03,814 --> 00:34:05,434

is like been closing in on you.

698

00:34:06,094 --> 00:34:09,754

Getting out for a walk in itself can

feel like an achievement is doing

699

00:34:09,754 --> 00:34:12,904

something, but it's not so confronting it,

700

00:34:13,154 --> 00:34:13,504

James Killgariff: right.

701

00:34:13,504 --> 00:34:15,609

If not, you're seeing there

and get what's going on.

702

00:34:16,179 --> 00:34:20,259

All this, you're in your head,

lots of noise in the head, and then

703

00:34:20,259 --> 00:34:21,369

of course you don't do anything.

704

00:34:21,369 --> 00:34:23,018

As you say, break the pattern.

705

00:34:23,018 --> 00:34:24,579

Go for a walk out to the gym.

706

00:34:24,938 --> 00:34:27,728

Cook a nice meal for

your partner, whatever.

707

00:34:27,728 --> 00:34:30,309

Stand in one leg, something that's

gonna just change the energy.

708

00:34:31,194 --> 00:34:31,704

John: Yeah.

709

00:34:31,708 --> 00:34:34,254

And, and, and we can de,

we can definitely do that.

710

00:34:34,554 --> 00:34:37,344

But, uh, yeah, the, the fear,

the fear response, although it

711

00:34:37,344 --> 00:34:41,964

can, can feel very real and it is

ultimately coming up to protect us.

712

00:34:42,414 --> 00:34:44,214

It doesn't have to define us.

713

00:34:44,214 --> 00:34:45,534

In fact, it shouldn't define us.

714

00:34:45,534 --> 00:34:48,583

And hopefully, you know, hopefully

just what we've been talking about

715

00:34:48,583 --> 00:34:53,739

today is enough to help people realize

or start to recognize that it's not

716

00:34:53,739 --> 00:34:57,699

your, it's not your whole identity or

failure isn't your identity and nothing,

717

00:34:57,849 --> 00:34:59,679

nothing is your complete identity.

718

00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:04,779

We are a myriad of things all in one, but

we can start to shift and change that.

719

00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:08,679

And maybe we need to start shifting

and changing our environment as part

720

00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:11,019

of that journey to achieving that.

721

00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:16,269

But certainly, um, certainly directing

ourselves or having the awareness around

722

00:35:16,329 --> 00:35:18,879

this, if you've got some kind of awareness

from what we've talked about today.

723

00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:22,359

You have the ability to start

to make some change because

724

00:35:22,359 --> 00:35:24,009

awareness is that first step.

725

00:35:24,609 --> 00:35:26,884

Now you do need to take

action with that awareness.

726

00:35:27,804 --> 00:35:29,874

James Killgariff: That's it and,

and sometimes we need support.

727

00:35:29,934 --> 00:35:33,954

I mean, sometimes we are so scared

we need some support around us.

728

00:35:33,954 --> 00:35:35,549

You know, sometimes

doing it alone is hard.

729

00:35:37,134 --> 00:35:40,584

So sometimes you need a supportive

friend or whatever to help

730

00:35:40,584 --> 00:35:42,354

you through and start small.

731

00:35:42,414 --> 00:35:45,564

If you've got a big fear about

something, you know, let's say a

732

00:35:45,564 --> 00:35:47,394

big fear is speaking on the stage.

733

00:35:47,844 --> 00:35:48,654

I mean, it's massive.

734

00:35:48,924 --> 00:35:53,454

We'll start with speaking in front of

the mirror, then speak to your partner.

735

00:35:54,204 --> 00:35:54,384

Yeah,

736

00:35:54,504 --> 00:35:56,394

John: Yeah, I generally don't

recommend seeking in front.

737

00:35:56,514 --> 00:35:58,314

Don't recommend speaking

in front of the mirror, but

738

00:35:59,064 --> 00:36:01,164

James Killgariff: what, what

something that is gonna move you in

739

00:36:01,164 --> 00:36:02,604

the direction of being on the stage.

740

00:36:02,604 --> 00:36:04,404

But don't just go onto the stage.

741

00:36:04,464 --> 00:36:07,734

'cause it might be just too

overwhelming, but edge into it

742

00:36:08,214 --> 00:36:10,314

John: I'd say go go to

a Toastmasters club.

743

00:36:10,554 --> 00:36:13,404

You don't have to get a, you don't

have to get up on stage and speak.

744

00:36:13,404 --> 00:36:15,744

You don't have to do anything,

but you just go and watch and

745

00:36:15,744 --> 00:36:19,104

speak to some people and you've

taken a step in a, in a particular

746

00:36:19,164 --> 00:36:19,644

James Killgariff: That's it.

747

00:36:19,674 --> 00:36:19,914

John: you know?

748

00:36:20,274 --> 00:36:23,274

Uh, but, you know, even, even

that could feel like a big.

749

00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:26,829

A big challenge to things, but you know,

if, if you, if you are needing help

750

00:36:26,859 --> 00:36:30,279

dealing with the uncertainty or you

know, you've been through some emotional

751

00:36:30,279 --> 00:36:31,629

trauma, this feels very real for you.

752

00:36:31,749 --> 00:36:34,509

James is a coach who specialized in

this stuff, so you might wanna reach

753

00:36:34,509 --> 00:36:38,019

out and, and get in touch and, and get

some coaching on this, or, you know, if

754

00:36:38,019 --> 00:36:42,369

you're looking for, uh, a breakthrough

as a, as a speaker or you want to get on

755

00:36:42,369 --> 00:36:46,689

stages or push through in that kind of

way, um, then I can help you with that.

756

00:36:46,689 --> 00:36:48,729

So, you know, you can reach out

to either of us for help and

757

00:36:48,729 --> 00:36:50,049

support if that's gonna help you.

758

00:36:50,294 --> 00:36:52,629

And, and I'll put some

details in, in the show notes.

759

00:36:52,889 --> 00:36:55,709

In the description for you,

if you want to, if you want to

760

00:36:55,709 --> 00:36:56,999

get in touch with either of us.

761

00:36:57,509 --> 00:37:01,139

But our, our main hope and having this

conversation isn't try and get clear,

762

00:37:01,259 --> 00:37:06,539

is to try and say, oh, um, can, can this

help somebody to at least have a bit of

763

00:37:06,539 --> 00:37:11,669

awareness and potentially make a shift

and recognize what's really going on for

764

00:37:11,669 --> 00:37:15,209

them in the lives and say, all right, I'm

not gonna sit here or just be in this.

765

00:37:15,539 --> 00:37:16,859

I'm gonna make some change.

766

00:37:16,859 --> 00:37:19,229

I'm gonna do something

that's gonna make my life.

767

00:37:19,284 --> 00:37:21,954

Better than it is currently

and, and that's what we hope

768

00:37:21,954 --> 00:37:23,939

comes from this conversation.

769

00:37:24,924 --> 00:37:25,074

James Killgariff: Yeah.

770

00:37:25,134 --> 00:37:28,914

The thing is, if people wanna make

comments, maybe, well, how do I do this?

771

00:37:28,914 --> 00:37:29,814

How do I do that?

772

00:37:29,814 --> 00:37:31,314

How do I calm myself down?

773

00:37:31,314 --> 00:37:34,224

How do I emotionally regulate where,

well, we haven't got time in this,

774

00:37:34,284 --> 00:37:36,264

in this podcast to talk about that.

775

00:37:36,534 --> 00:37:38,064

We may talk about it, it depends.

776

00:37:38,064 --> 00:37:41,964

But there are approaches that one

has to take to actually emotionally

777

00:37:41,964 --> 00:37:45,609

re regulate as you're going

through this storm in the head.

778

00:37:47,214 --> 00:37:48,294

John: Yeah, a hundred percent.

779

00:37:48,294 --> 00:37:49,314

A hundred percent.

780

00:37:49,674 --> 00:37:53,424

And stuff that, you know, uh, and so

we've got it all figured out ourselves.

781

00:37:53,424 --> 00:37:56,184

We've just been through stuff and come

out the other side and we've helped

782

00:37:56,184 --> 00:37:58,224

other people navigate this stuff as well.

783

00:37:58,584 --> 00:38:00,864

It's things we still have to

deal with ourselves, you know, it

784

00:38:00,864 --> 00:38:02,244

doesn't, stuff doesn't go away.

785

00:38:02,664 --> 00:38:05,154

Um, but we just get better at

dealing with it, hopefully.

786

00:38:05,454 --> 00:38:05,694

James Killgariff: that's it.

787

00:38:05,964 --> 00:38:07,014

That's it, Johnny.

788

00:38:07,014 --> 00:38:07,404

It was great.

789

00:38:07,404 --> 00:38:08,034

Good talk.

790

00:38:08,139 --> 00:38:08,469

John: Awesome.

791

00:38:08,499 --> 00:38:08,739

Yeah.

792

00:38:08,769 --> 00:38:09,159

Great stuff.

793

00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:09,849

Thank you James.

794

00:38:09,849 --> 00:38:13,449

Uh, we'll, we'll come back again,

no doubt and have another deep dive

795

00:38:13,449 --> 00:38:14,859

conversation, but this has been fun.

796

00:38:14,859 --> 00:38:15,099

Thank you.

797

00:38:16,257 --> 00:38:18,622

So this chat today landed for you.

798

00:38:18,652 --> 00:38:21,172

Do one small thing before the day ends.

799

00:38:21,532 --> 00:38:25,402

Maybe take a walk, message a

supportive friend, book yourself

800

00:38:25,402 --> 00:38:29,632

in for a Toastmasters meeting, or

maybe go along without even speaking.

801

00:38:29,632 --> 00:38:31,132

Or I'll say hello to some people.

802

00:38:31,132 --> 00:38:31,942

Be nice at least.

803

00:38:32,422 --> 00:38:36,412

You could swap one unhelpful voice

in your feed for a useful one.

804

00:38:37,072 --> 00:38:39,082

There's always the option

to just do nothing.

805

00:38:39,292 --> 00:38:42,202

But really all that will do for you

is keep the loop alive and keep you

806

00:38:42,202 --> 00:38:47,452

stuck in the same old cycles, but even

small actions can start to loosen it.

807

00:38:47,512 --> 00:38:52,252

So if you want support, James helps people

regulate and move through uncertainty.

808

00:38:52,252 --> 00:38:54,802

And I help speakers and

leaders perform under pressure.

809

00:38:55,312 --> 00:38:57,922

You can find details to contact

either of us in the show notes

810

00:38:58,175 --> 00:39:01,085

subscribe to the show and maybe

share with us one step that

811

00:39:01,085 --> 00:39:02,975

you are taking to move forward.

812

00:39:03,125 --> 00:39:04,035

Have an amazing week.

813

00:39:04,035 --> 00:39:04,825

See you.