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Boldly Beloved

Mari Wagner speaks with Kim Zember about living a Christ-centered life amidst struggles with same-sex attraction. Kim shares her powerful testimony, highlighting the journey through confusion, fear, and ultimately finding peace in God's design. From daily spiritual practices to a radical encounter with Christ on October 17, 2014, Kim discusses the impact of unwavering trust and receiving God's healing grace. The conversation dives deep into identity, relationships, and the importance of knowing God's heart. Listener questions are also addressed, focusing on meal planning and defending the Catholic faith.

00:00 Welcome to The Ever Be Podcast

00:48 A Beautiful First Encounter

03:04 Kim's Ever Be Moment

03:53 Mari's Ever Be Moment

06:50 Introducing Kim's Ministry: Boldly Beloved

07:15 Kim's Journey: From Prodigal to Beloved

08:51 Struggles and Desires: High School Years

16:11 Living a Double Life

23:49 Seeking Truth and Finding Confusion

31:27 A Radical Encounter with Jesus

32:30 A Journey of Faith and Healing

33:07 Revelations and Inner Healing

33:55 Childhood Memories and Deep Healing

35:52 Struggles and Surrender

41:05 Encounter with Christ

54:24 Daily Spiritual Practices

58:11 Encouragement and Final Thoughts

01:00:27 Ever Be Answers: Q&A Session

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Hey, I am your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to The Ever Be

2

Podcast where Faith Meets Lifestyle.

3

I'm so excited you're here.

4

Whether you're a new listener

or a longtime follower, I know

5

there's something here for you.

6

Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful, real life conversations and

7

actionable steps on how to claim the.

8

Full life God created you for.

9

If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ-centered life in today's

10

modern world, then this is for you.

11

Welcome to ever be.

12

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Welcome, Kim.

13

I'm so excited to have

you on ever Be Today.

14

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Yeah.

15

I'm super honored to be on with you.

16

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Before

we dive in, I just wanna share a little

17

bit about how we met because it was

really beautiful and I have not forgotten.

18

It was earlier this year at Seek, actually

we were at the like hallow party and I

19

can't remember what mutual friend it was.

20

We were all talking to, it might've been

Jackie or Sarah or something like that.

21

But you were in the group chatting

and then you came up and you were so

22

excited 'cause you had this relic of St.

23

John Paul ii.

24

You were like, oh my gosh, you guys,

look at this relic I was given.

25

And I was like, wow, can I

pray with that for a moment?

26

And you in that moment just offer

to pray with me and Trey for our,

27

the healing of our fertility.

28

And I was just so like moved by that

because we were strangers at that point.

29

You didn't even know who I was or

like, we didn't have any relationship.

30

And in that moment you were just

like moved with the spirit and

31

had such boldness to pray over us.

32

So.

33

So beautifully, and that was

my first interaction with you.

34

So I'm just so grateful and

I was just so impressed.

35

I'm like, this woman is amazing.

36

Wow.

37

Thank you, Jesus.

38

You're putting her in my life right now.

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kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Oh,

you know, it's funny because like

40

that night a lot of people were like,

wait, you're like so openly like

41

passing this JP two Relic around.

42

You're in a bar, like you

43

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah,

44

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

a relic to a bar.

45

I'm like, oh, heck yeah.

46

Like, that's where Jesus goes.

47

Right?

48

And I knew we were all

like in the same group.

49

None of us

50

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: for sure.

51

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

drinking crazy or

52

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

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kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

it was a sweet memory.

54

So I, I won't forget that either.

55

And, and just, yeah.

56

Such an honor to, to pray

with the both of you and

57

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Thank you.

58

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

I love, I love when friendships

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kind of start that way,

60

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

61

How beautiful.

62

So.

63

I'm gonna put you on the

spot for a tidy bit here.

64

And we're starting to add a new segment

into the podcast called Ever Be Moments.

65

And it's basically a time for us to

share, like glory stories and have

66

the Lord's Praise ever be on our lips,

which is the mission of the podcast.

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So, if you wanna take a second to think

about what has been an ever be moment for

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you in the past, you know, a couple weeks

or recently, just a way that you feel

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like the Lord has shown up in your life.

70

Um, or yeah, just shown his love to you.

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kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Amen.

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Let me think, Lord.

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Which one?

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I got a lot.

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I'm

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mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

I think he would have a lot.

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kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Yeah.

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Okay.

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Got one

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mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Go for it.

81

What's your ever be moment?

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I.

83

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Meeting.

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A man that believed he was to be a

woman at a bar, giving him a word from

85

God, having a meal with him after.

86

And him knowing that God is at work in

his life, that he is not too far gone,

87

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Hmm.

88

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

that there is a seat for him at

89

the table, and that God will do

the work that he can't do himself.

90

And to just be a small part, a small

part of God reaching out to him and

91

drawing him back into his family.

92

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

That is so beautiful.

93

Thank you for sharing that.

94

Wow.

95

I just love, like the Lord has given

you a bold heart and so you're able to

96

minister in a bold way and the Lord is

able to bring like really bold moments

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into your life, which is so amazing.

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Um, my ever be moment.

99

Was this past week at Daily Mass, and I

was rushing out of the house to make it

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on time, and as soon as I got in the car,

I saw that my gas tank was literally.

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On like almost empty.

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It said I had four miles left and my GPS

said I was 10 miles away from the church.

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And I was like, great.

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And I had a moment where I was

like, do I just like send it?

105

Do I just go and like, there's gotta

be, there's gotta be buffer room, you

106

know, and I'm trying to get to mass,

the Lord will take care of me, whatever.

107

But in my responsible heart, I

was like, I can't do that if I get

108

stranded on the side of the road.

109

So anyway, so I stopped for gas and

I filled up and that took forever.

110

And so I was like super late to mass

and it's this short mass they do in the

111

middle of the day for people that work.

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So it's like 30 minutes.

113

So I knew, I, I had this

debate, I'm like, do I go?

114

Do I not go?

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Do I go, do I not go?

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And I was like, you know

what, I'm just gonna show up.

117

I'm just gonna show up.

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And even if I get there right

before the Eucharistic prayer,

119

like I can still like receive the

Lord in spirit and all this stuff.

120

And so I walk in and I'm.

121

They're in the prayers of the faithful.

122

And so I take out my phone and

I go to the U-S-C-C-B readings.

123

I pull up the readings and I was like,

okay, I'm gonna read 'em During, during

124

the prayer time, after communion, and I'm

in this moment of prayer before I read

125

the readings, and I just like, felt in

my heart like this like this beautiful.

126

Like love between the Lord and I

in this moment of communion as I

127

was receiving him and feeling this

prayer, praying for our fertility

128

and for healing of so many things.

129

And just praying like, Lord, I just

know that even at the touch of you,

130

right at the thought of you receiving

you and, and asking you to, to touch

131

me, like this healing can come and

this like power can, can wash over me.

132

And I like just had a beautiful moment

in prayer reflecting on that moment in

133

scripture when the woman asks when she

reaches for his cloak and the power

134

leaves the Christ and touches her.

135

Um, and then I open up the readings and

the gospel literally talks about how.

136

Can't remember exactly which one it

was, but how, you know, all these

137

people came to the Lord to be healed.

138

And there was a word there that said

like, because they knew that just from

139

the touch of Christ they would be healed.

140

And I was like, Lord, like you're with me.

141

Like you hear my prayers, you're affirming

this like truth that like coming to you

142

and just even at the thought of you a,

a small prayer, the touch your Eucharist

143

and coming and showing up to mass.

144

And I've just been so convicted recently

of what you were saying, like the power

145

of the Eucharist and the graces that come.

146

And I've been showing up to adoration

more frequently and, and going to,

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uh, daily mass multiple times a week.

148

And it just felt like that confirmation

of just like, yes, like coming to me and

149

seeing me in the Eucharist and receiving

me in the Eucharist is a beautiful

150

and powerful grace and healing grace.

151

So that's, that's my everyday

152

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Amen.

153

I love it.

154

Come on.

155

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Well,

let's just start by diving into who

156

you are and what your ministry is.

157

If you can just give us

a little bit of an intro.

158

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Yeah.

159

Um, so I have a ministry

called Boldly Beloved.

160

Um, and it's kind of that, like, I

just feel when you really know that

161

you are beloved in Christ, like that

you are a beloved daughter, you're

162

a beloved son, you just live boldly.

163

Like, you don't have to try, you

don't have to like manufacture.

164

Um, and I've lived quite a prodigal life.

165

Um, so, you know, I grew

up Catholic and whatnot.

166

Um, but, you know, to to know Christ

in your mind and, and to give your

167

heart to him is two different things.

168

And, uh, so yeah, I've, I've lived quite

a life, um, of kind of running from Jesus.

169

'cause I didn't really know him.

170

'cause if you really know

Jesus, like really meet him, I

171

don't think you run from him.

172

You run to him.

173

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yep.

174

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Um.

175

And so, yeah, I mean, and, and

he's just, he is transformed and

176

continuing to transform my life.

177

Um, you know, I dated women for years.

178

Um, I, I knew it was wrong,

and I won't get into all of it.

179

I'll, I'll let you kind

of take the lead on that.

180

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

181

Yeah.

182

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: I'd say

if it was something outside of Christ,

183

I probably did it and lived in it.

184

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm.

185

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

so I really, I lived in the

186

world, um, pretty all in.

187

And so I'm kind of an

all in kind of person.

188

And so when I met the love of my

life, when I met the, the creator

189

and lover of my soul, um, he, he

had all of me and, and still does.

190

And that's a daily, a daily

giving, a daily offering.

191

But, um, there was a

radical, radical moment, uh,

192

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Absolutely.

193

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

marked me so.

194

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Yeah, absolutely.

195

I love that, that like that all in like

heart that you have is, is so beautiful.

196

And just the fact that the Lord was

able to capture your heart and invite

197

you and that you said yes, right.

198

That you like took that

invitation is beautiful.

199

And I love, you mentioned you

have a prodigal life, like

200

how poetic and, and beautiful.

201

I'd love to hear more of that.

202

Can you just like, share

a bit of your story.

203

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

yeah, yeah.

204

So, um, like I had mentioned, you

know, I grew up Catholic, so I had

205

a knowledge of God, um, a general

knowledge, but I, I will be honest, I,

206

you know, I went to private Catholic

school, um, starting in third grade and.

207

I would say when I, when I felt like

I first started to learn about Jesus,

208

uh, about God the father, I felt

like I kind of was scared of him.

209

Um, I felt like, you know, maybe I

missed like kindergarten through, you

210

know, second grade where you talk about

heaven and like, you know, all the sweet

211

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

All the good.

212

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: I

think I got like, yeah, third grade it

213

was like hell, you know, and, and the

ways in which I, the way I perceived

214

it doesn't mean that's how it was

taught, but the way I perceived it was,

215

kind of not good enough and you might

never be, um, but just keep trying.

216

And that was exhausting.

217

Um, and I, I didn't, I would say I

didn't know what some might call like the

218

simple gospel, which is you're actually

not good enough, but he sees you as

219

good, will you give yourself to him.

220

He wants you, he desires

you and he gave his life for

221

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Hm.

222

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

and he's gonna be strength.

223

Um, so I really kind of took

most of life on my own shoulders.

224

Um, a lot of striving, a lot of works.

225

Um, and, and yes, works are part of our

faith, but I was trying to earn love.

226

wasn't operating from love, I was

trying to earn love and that was

227

really heavy, um, and really hard.

228

And I didn't open up.

229

I just thought that's just how God was

and everybody else was dealing with

230

the same thing, you know, that I was

231

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

232

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: in the

sense of the weightiness of trying to do

233

life on your own and, and carry the, the

burdens of temptations and difficulties.

234

Um, so that was kinda like younger years.

235

You know, my parents, um, had

a real relationship with Jesus.

236

Uh, they had radical encounters on their

own, which brought us now into like now

237

masses, like more than just Sundays.

238

And we're praying the rosary and

we're doing all these things, but

239

to me they were just things because

the reality is God has children,

240

he doesn't have grandchildren.

241

so though my parents had a great

and real, alive and active and.

242

As many would say, charismatic,

uh, relationship with the Lord.

243

That didn't just transcend into me.

244

It was exampled to me, but it

didn't make me have a relationship.

245

And so that was kind of the, the

foundation, you know, per se.

246

There's a lot more, of course,

but, um, fast forward, it, was when

247

I was in high school that things

started to get really difficult.

248

Uh, you know, it was my senior year in

high school and, you know, I went into a

249

pri, a public school, uh, when I went into

high school, and that was very different.

250

I went from like a tiny fishbowl

into like a giant late, you

251

know, and I'm like, oh boy, okay.

252

I am not as big as I thought

253

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Culture shock.

254

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: yeah.

255

Yeah.

256

And also I had, but it, but

people liked me, so like.

257

Popularity and things like that

were weren't an issue for me.

258

I wasn't like trying to fit in, but

there was an issue that I started to

259

realize in high school that I didn't

feel like I faced in junior high

260

and middle school and it was dating.

261

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm-hmm.

262

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: And

so like all my friends now, like we

263

were into sports and all these things

and, and like hanging out together.

264

But then one by one

everybody started dating.

265

And, and I'll say I had this

deep seated distrust in men.

266

Um, I was never sexually abused to my

knowledge or my family's knowledge.

267

Um, I had a great dad, great

two big, great brothers, you

268

know, like three dads basically.

269

And, um, and an awesome mom.

270

But I had this.

271

Thing in me that I just

couldn't trust men.

272

Like

273

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

274

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

found them attractive.

275

I was like, I kind of want to be

in a relationship, but I never

276

trusted that they would be faithful.

277

Um, and so I had this

longing for companionship.

278

I had this longing for partnership.

279

I had this longing for

relationship, a longing to be

280

loved, to be seen, to be known.

281

but I didn't know where to put

it because I didn't trust men.

282

And if you don't trust men as

a female, if you don't trust

283

men, where are you gonna put it?

284

Like those desires are still there.

285

They don't just shut off.

286

Right?

287

Um, and so I kind of wrestled with

that through high school of like,

288

okay, I feel safer with women.

289

Um, I feel like I can trust them and.

290

It just got kind of weird, uh, because

I started to realize like, wait, I,

291

I don't think I like men that way.

292

It, I didn't base it on the

fact that I didn't trust him.

293

I was just like kind of coming to my

own conclusions and I didn't talk to

294

anything about it, but I was like, wait,

I don't trust men and I trust women.

295

And so that was like a seed

into something, and it was my

296

senior year in high school.

297

Then I'm like, you know what?

298

I'm gonna just, I'm gonna try this.

299

Like, I'm gonna go for what I've

kind of felt and been curious about.

300

Like, maybe I'm attracted to women.

301

Maybe that's the draw.

302

Like I could recognize beauty in women,

but I was like, maybe it's something more.

303

the worst choice that I

made was not acting on it.

304

It was actually before that.

305

It was not talking to anybody about It It

306

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Hmm.

307

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: just

kind of in isolation trying to figure

308

this out, kind of talking to God,

like, Hey, I don't really wanna do

309

this, but I don't know what to do.

310

But I, I, I, again, thought he was looking

at me saying, you gotta figure it out.

311

You gotta be strong, you gotta do this.

312

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Hmm.

313

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: I

never asked him for help, um, because

314

I didn't know he wanted to help me.

315

Um, and so I, I kind of had this

image of God as a cop, and that

316

image of God as a cop made me kind

of look at things differently.

317

Like, okay, everybody

around me is sinning.

318

And if, if anybody's like me, if I'm

on the freeway and people are driving

319

the speed limit's 70 and people are

driving 80, I just have to go 78.

320

I just need to be a little bit

lower than the people around me and

321

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

322

Yeah,

323

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: that's

how I was kind of viewing God, like,

324

people are drunk, they're hooking up.

325

They're one of my best, you know,

friends from Catholic school was

326

pregnant, you know, and so I'm like.

327

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: yeah.

328

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: deal if

I'm looking for companionship in a woman?

329

And so I made a decision, uh,

one night that I would kiss

330

her and I'd see what happened.

331

And I'm telling you, everything changed.

332

Everything changed.

333

You can think you desire something,

you can think something might be good,

334

but when you experience it and then

you enjoy it, uh, something opens up.

335

And I will tell you, I

started to see her different.

336

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

337

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Um,

started to see women different, uh,

338

not overnight, but a slow and a steady.

339

And that's where I felt

I could put my heart.

340

I felt like my heart was though.

341

I knew like I would, I would love to

say, oh, I didn't know it was sin.

342

No, I knew it was sinful.

343

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Hmm.

344

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: did, but

I didn't know where else to put my heart.

345

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

346

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Um,

and not excuse, but it was just real.

347

And so I was like, my heart feels safest

with women and it needs to be somewhere.

348

It doesn't feel safe with God.

349

It doesn't sit, feel safe with men.

350

And so it felt safe with women

and it felt most like love.

351

Because it wasn't just all sexualized.

352

And, um, so that led me into a whole

life and path that I would've never

353

thought, never seen, would've never

thought that one kiss would've changed

354

literally the direction of my whole life.

355

Um, but it did.

356

And my decisions, I, I can't blame.

357

I made decisions that one decision led

to another, to another, to another.

358

And I ended up living a life of

hiddenness lying, um, cheating, you

359

know, dating guys on the forefront so

people wouldn't ask me questions while

360

really dating women behind the scenes.

361

And then I even started to see women

differently in the sense of like, now

362

they're objects of pleasure to me.

363

And I never, it didn't start that way.

364

It was like comfort and just

wanting to be close and held

365

almost like a kid, you know,

366

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm-hmm.

367

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

wants to close to their best

368

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

369

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

And, and that just spiraled and,

370

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah,

371

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: um.

372

Went into a, a whole now lifestyle and,

and a lot went on, but I'm gonna pause

373

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: yeah.

374

Yeah.

375

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

you have Uh, from so,

376

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Thank you for sharing so openly.

377

I think what's standing out to me the

most is those desires you had on your

378

heart, we know are so good, and the

Lord placed them there intentionally,

379

like you were made for relationship.

380

We all are made for relationship.

381

Of course.

382

We have that innate desire to

connect, to be loved, to be seen,

383

to be cherished, to be cared for.

384

And yeah, the evil one and brokenness

in our world can lead us to place

385

those desires and act upon those

desires in a place where that f,

386

we're not gonna find that fulfillment.

387

Right.

388

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

No, I just, I never did, I never

389

found the full fulfillment.

390

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: and

I love, I, I wanna tie kind of those

391

desires back to kinda where you started.

392

You said your ministry is called

Boldly Beloved and rooting that

393

identity in your truest identity.

394

And those desires are coming from our

truest identity of being a beloved

395

daughter or son of God and wanting

basically to fill that God-sized

396

hole we have in our heart, which

is made for relationship with him.

397

And I know you speak a lot about identity

and being rooted in Christ rather than,

398

you know, our attractions or struggles

or accomplishment or whatever we feel

399

is our worldly identity that we're

trying to present or find ourselves in.

400

How did you personally like come to

understand that, like that truest

401

identity as a daughter of God?

402

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

Well, I tried every other

403

identity, so I, I really did.

404

I, I tried making a lot of money and

I made it, but I was unfulfilled.

405

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm-hmm.

406

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

You know, I had the stuff, I

407

had, the things I tried women.

408

Unfulfilled.

409

I tried men unfulfilled.

410

I tried missions work unfulfilled,

like I tried everything on.

411

And though though some parts of it were

good, it wasn't filling the gaping hole.

412

This, this incredible

desire and hunger for more.

413

And it left me wanting, and thank God,

by the grace of God, none of it stuck.

414

Even though I could be like,

okay, this part of it is good.

415

I, I remember I was selling real

estate in San Diego at like 19

416

years old, just slinging a bunch

of homes making a ton of money.

417

And people are like, oh, you

know, you're, that, you're the,

418

you're the youngest realtor.

419

I was like, at one point I was

like, the youngest realtor in, in

420

San Diego and Riverside County.

421

And,

422

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

423

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

I'm like, yeah.

424

I'm like, no, I'm, I'm not her.

425

And they're like, well, you're,

you're Kim Zimber, right?

426

I'm like, yeah.

427

And they're like, well, yeah.

428

was weird.

429

I couldn't take it as my identity.

430

Like they tried to like label it on me.

431

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

432

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

something in me that was like, yeah,

433

that's what I do, but it's not who I am.

434

So even when I was in the

lifestyle and came out openly,

435

quote unquote gay, and I say

436

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

437

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

because I never took that label

438

on, I was dating women, Marie.

439

There was a time where, um, I was dating

this girl and I introduced her to one

440

of my best friends, and my best friend

looked at me and she's like, oh, I'm

441

just so glad you finally came out as gay.

442

And I said, um, I'm not gay.

443

And my girlfriend looks at

me and she's like, uh, I'm,

444

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

She's like,

445

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: What?

446

What is this?

447

Then I'm like, oh, no, no, no.

448

We're dating like you're my girlfriend.

449

And they're both confused and I'm

like, super getting what I'm saying.

450

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: yeah.

451

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

they're like, what do you mean?

452

And I said, I'm not gay,

I'm just dating you.

453

Like it's what I'm doing.

454

And they were so confused, but there was

something within me that would not accept.

455

Desires, me acting on desires or me being

successful in something or me the world

456

thinking it's good, making it who I was.

457

I just was, I didn't have peace with that.

458

And I, I, I look back now and I

see that that was the grace of

459

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: I was

about to say like that is a true grace

460

that you didn't feel like you could

take on those identities and that at

461

to some level you're so like new God

enough to not feel like, get to, to

462

feel like that wasn't the fulfillment.

463

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Yeah.

464

Like the, see, I think sometimes when

we're hungry, we're like irritated.

465

We're like, feed me.

466

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Oh yeah.

467

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: hunger is

revealing of something and when you try

468

to eat and you're still not satisfied.

469

So I went through the world just

trying to consume and consume and

470

consume and give, like I was a quote

unquote missionary when I, I started

471

a mission at 23 in Ethiopia helping

single moms and, and their children.

472

I had no clue what I was doing, but

I just give myself, give myself.

473

So I tried consuming and giving.

474

And I remember even then people were

like, I'd come home from Ethiopia.

475

And people are like, oh,

you're the missionary, right?

476

I'm like, no.

477

And they're like, wait, aren't you?

478

Aren't you Kim?

479

Like you go to Ethiopia?

480

I was like, yeah, I just got back.

481

And they're like, well,

then you're a missionary.

482

I'm like, no, that's what I'm doing.

483

There was like always this pressure

of whatever I did or whatever I was

484

operating in to become who I was.

485

And I, the grace of God

just wouldn't let it happen.

486

And, and I'm thankful because

it still kept me hungry.

487

Those things didn't fill me enough.

488

I enjoyed them.

489

I liked them.

490

Some of them gave me greater peace.

491

And then living in the lifestyle

with women did not give me peace.

492

Um, thank

493

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm-hmm.

494

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

Uh, I was never at peace though.

495

I really enjoyed the women that I

dated individually at, at those times.

496

Um, I didn't have peace at night

and I knew I was created for peace.

497

And so, you know, I think those longings,

those unfulfilled longings, I see the

498

grace and mercy of God to say, I'm not

gonna let my daughter think that this

499

is who she is, or that she's full when

I have actually like a banquet for her.

500

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

501

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: And so it

was just, it's his mercy, it's his grace.

502

And I was baptized as a baby.

503

So I believe like when we go

into the waters of baptism,

504

we become sons and daughters.

505

Like we're, we become sons and daughters

through the waters of baptism, and then

506

it's our choice if we're gonna believe.

507

And so when I went into those

waters as an infant, I believe I

508

became a, a true daughter, right?

509

And God is not gonna give up on me.

510

He was going like the Provo.

511

He's waiting, he's, he's saying,

I'm, I'm I, I'm ready for you.

512

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

513

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: I'm ready.

514

I'm ready.

515

And he was always kind of there,

but he just waited until I got

516

sick and tired of playing his role.

517

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

518

Yeah, that's really powerful.

519

And you can tell like, like we talked

about, like there's all these great

520

desires, but then like there's this

tension you were holding throughout your

521

life and this tension that you felt as

people were trying to put these identities

522

on you and you couldn't take them on.

523

Or as you had these desires and

were trying to explore like.

524

Where do these fit?

525

Like how do these get fulfilled?

526

And I think we know you're not the only

person who has experienced this or,

527

or gone through this, and there's many

people in the church that are struggling

528

with these same desires and tensions

and confusion about like, where am I

529

supposed to find fulfillment in this?

530

And, and what is my identity and

what is God actually want for me?

531

And how did he make me?

532

Can you just share, um, if you're willing,

just more openly just like what was, what

533

was that like going through those tensions

and experiencing that same sex attraction

534

while also knowing what the truth was?

535

Like you said, you knew it was sinful

and you wanted to look at God's call

536

in your life, but you're, you're

struggling with these tensions.

537

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Yeah.

538

Oh, it was an inner war.

539

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Hmm.

540

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: mean,

the war between something you feel to

541

the core of you, not just 'cause you've

heard it, like I can hear things,

542

but you know when something is true.

543

Right?

544

And so for me, there was this inner truth

that was like, this is not who you are,

545

and this is not what I have for you, Kim.

546

But my desires were at war with that.

547

I was like, well, then

how do I fulfill 'em?

548

And to be honest, one of the biggest

things I dealt with was fear.

549

I was so afraid of being alone.

550

I was so afraid.

551

I was so afraid that God was either

gonna make me like a religious

552

sister, or I was gonna be just alone.

553

Those were both tar,

equally terrifying to me.

554

Um, because remember, I'm

seeing God as a cop, so it's

555

not like, oh, yay, I get this.

556

You know?

557

It was like, Ugh, this

doesn't, it felt very, um.

558

Like ownership,

559

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

560

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: And, and

in a, in a non, um, freely given way.

561

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

562

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

I was so scared.

563

I was so afraid, right?

564

Um, that I would just have

to go through life alone.

565

And, and I thought that that

was the most scary thing for me.

566

You know, like, well, and you

look back to Genesis, it says, we

567

weren't created to do life alone.

568

We,

569

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Right,

570

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

Adam was walking with God, right?

571

And God said, it's not

good that you be alone.

572

And so there was that innate truth in

me too, of like, I'm not supposed to be

573

alone either, but I didn't know where to

go and, and here was one of the issues.

574

That I faced is I wanted to open

up, I wanted to ask people for help.

575

But that time in the church, no one

was really talking about homosexuality.

576

It surely wasn't a positive

577

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: right.

578

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: which I

understand and I'm grateful for that too.

579

But it wasn't being talked about

openly, like pornography and

580

masturbation and all the other sins.

581

It was like this one that like,

oh, if you struggle, go into that

582

private secret room and nobody will.

583

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah,

584

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

And it just, it made me

585

feel like a leper, kind of

586

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

of course.

587

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

gotta hide this.

588

And, and I don't blame, but that

was just a reality that I felt.

589

And so I felt like I couldn't

open up about my struggles.

590

The only thing I had heard about in church

around homosexuality was that homosexuals,

591

if you live that, you'll go to hell.

592

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm-hmm.

593

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

so I'm like, well, I'm not

594

gonna talk to people about this.

595

Um, and because I didn't know,

like I, I remember opening up once.

596

And they're like, well, you know, you

get to live your life with Jesus then.

597

And I'm like, that sounds

598

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

That sounds like that sucks.

599

I'm gonna be alone.

600

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Yeah.

601

But I, I will say this, I think

this is important to note.

602

Um, when I was 19 years old,

um, I had already kissed my best

603

friend, you know, that got ruined.

604

I was, I was already now

like, okay, I have desires for

605

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

606

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

I was myself gay, but it was very

607

real that I had real desires and I

didn't know how to kind of win that

608

battle within, with what felt true

inside my heart about what is good.

609

And so I hired a Catholic

counselor, um, on my own.

610

Nobody knew I was going, hired

a Catholic counselor, and he

611

basically affirmed a gay identity.

612

He's like, God doesn't make mistakes.

613

You are so loved.

614

And I'm like, okay, I know

both of those are true, but

615

like, how is that correlating?

616

What do I do?

617

How do I live this out?

618

And in a lot of sessions it felt like

it was more just like, just be you.

619

You do you.

620

And that was like not a common thing then,

621

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: No.

622

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Um,

and so that was really confusing.

623

But by the grace of God,

I knew he was not right.

624

I knew it wasn't true.

625

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

626

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: I went

to a Catholic priest, got the same thing.

627

Um, same answer.

628

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Whoa.

629

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

just be, you know.

630

Yeah.

631

Um, just go, Kim, so long

as you're monogamous, you're

632

gonna be with one person.

633

And, and if you love her and she

loves you, and it's not forced.

634

And I'm like, what is going on?

635

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Whoa, that

636

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

I was like,

637

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

so confusing?

638

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

of the Catholic church because

639

Catholic counselor, Catholic priest.

640

So I was like, I'm gonna, I was

selling real estate, so I was like,

641

one of my, one of my clients was

a pastor, a Protestant pastor.

642

So I'm like, I'm gonna talk with him.

643

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm.

644

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: So I

sit down with him, share everything,

645

and he is like, okay, so you're gay.

646

And I'm like, um, okay.

647

What's happening in the

body of Christ right now?

648

Like, why is nobody being like, oh

my gosh, and you've carried this.

649

Let me walk with you, like, Christ has

goodness for you and it doesn't mean

650

you're gonna be alone and like three.

651

And so I'm like, you know what?

652

Forget

653

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: That is.

654

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

so I just dove into the lifestyle.

655

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah,

that is so interesting that like you,

656

in this moment of tension of tr of just

needing to hear truth and wanting to like

657

share what you're carrying with someone,

that when you got the answer that quote

658

unquote, like, would've, should have given

you peace and affirmed you and affirmed

659

your actions, actually gave you unrest.

660

It was like a deep in your heart,

like you were wanting to hear the,

661

to hear the truth and be walked with.

662

And instead when you were just affirmed,

maybe someone you know, shared because

663

they didn't believe the truth or they,

um, out of fear, you know, didn't want

664

you to like, turn away from the church.

665

Just kind of said like what you

wanted to hear, what they thought

666

like would keep you around.

667

And even that didn't give you peace,

668

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Well, and

thank God I, I even told the priest, I

669

said, listen, I am not gonna hurt myself.

670

Like, you don't have to be afraid

that I'm gonna hurt myself.

671

I'm not going to, I just

need to know what to do.

672

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: right.

673

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

he is like.

674

You know, just be you.

675

Love, love is love.

676

And I'm like, no, it's not.

677

And it brought more confusion.

678

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: bet,

679

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

even said to him, he said,

680

but why in the scriptures?

681

He said, well, you don't

understand the scriptures.

682

I said, hold on, hold on.

683

So you're telling me, you're telling

me that the thing I struggle with

684

most, or that I am aware, that I

struggle with most is the one thing

685

in scripture that I don't understand.

686

I was like, that sounds

a little too convenient.

687

Like, I, I don't think so.

688

And if you're gonna tell me, I don't

understand, understand scripture.

689

Now you're starting to

unravel all of scripture.

690

Like

691

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: huh?

692

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

it felt very off

693

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

694

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: true.

695

but I, but I ran out.

696

I'm like, what am I gonna do?

697

Like, and, and that's no excuse, right?

698

Like, I could have kept seeking,

but I was like, you know what?

699

Forget it.

700

Maybe they're right.

701

Even though I knew they weren't.

702

And so I dove into the

lifestyle and I was never happy.

703

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

704

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

had moments of happiness.

705

I had moments of joy.

706

I had moments, but I didn't

have a, a deep peace.

707

When I fell asleep at night.

708

I didn't, I didn't fall asleep at night

at peace in, in my soul and in my mind,

709

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm.

710

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

was still to.

711

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Yeah, that makes sense.

712

And I mean, you made an effort and three

outta three gave you the same answer.

713

So I mean, it makes

sense why you continued.

714

Um, and you mentioned like your deepest

draw wasn't necessarily like physical, but

715

really mostly like an emotional longing,

an emotional intimacy you were seeking.

716

How has God helped you to

reframe those longings?

717

Like what, tell me that part of the

story, like where did the reframing

718

happen to where he showed you that

those are actually desires that can lead

719

you to freedom instead of brokenness?

720

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: So, um,

I came out of the life, I had a radical

721

encounter with Jesus, October 17th, 2014.

722

So, uh, coming up to 12 years.

723

Um, I honestly though, so for the

last, it's, it is been a journey with

724

the Lord, like absolutely a journey.

725

It, it, it hasn't been until the

last, I would say, four years.

726

the Lord's really been showing me, like,

Kim, these desires, my focus for the

727

last like seven have just been on him.

728

Like, let me get to know you.

729

God, let me let to, to know you,

to walk with you, to you teach me

730

how to walk in you and with you.

731

Um, and then it really has been in these

last four years, a deep inner healing.

732

Like I feel like it's, it's

almost like this, this is

733

how I de kind of describe it.

734

It was as if Jesus came rescue

735

And he just held me and he

brought me in and he never let go.

736

Even when I squirmed out of his hands,

it was like, no, I wanna go back.

737

Like you're not, you're the invisible God.

738

Like it's not enough.

739

Everybody else is dating.

740

And I, I went back and had falls and

fumbles, but he just always embraced me.

741

He was always faithful.

742

then it was like four years ago,

four, yeah, I would say about

743

four years ago where I feel like

Jesus brought me to the Father.

744

said that Jesus in scripture, it said that

Jesus came to reveal the Father to us.

745

Right, and to bring us back in a

relationship with God the Father.

746

And so I feel like in these

last four years, there's been

747

such a revelation of who God is.

748

Now I know Jesus is the revelation God.

749

He's the God man.

750

And there's a distinction

between them though, for a

751

reason within the Trinity, right?

752

And so there's these facets of

God, and I felt like as, as Christ

753

began to reveal the Father to me.

754

Healing began to happen.

755

There's been like deep inner healing,

seeing things in my childhood that

756

I was like, but I was never abused.

757

Why?

758

Like, I remember asking God,

like, why do I have these desires?

759

Take 'em, take 'em from me.

760

I don't want 'em.

761

Well, one thing God won't

take, he will receive.

762

So he was just waiting for me to be

like, I give you this and I give you

763

not just sexuality, not just desires.

764

He wants all of me.

765

Right.

766

Um, in that the Lord has begun to reveal,

I, I've been so blessed to walk with,

767

uh, Neil Lozano with Unbound Ministries

and um, just a lot of the body of Christ

768

has, uh, come around and, and been a

part of this healing journey for me.

769

Um, but it's really been through inner

healing that I've been realizing like.

770

There was deep longings in my little

self, like a little kid, you know that

771

my mom, God bless her, I love her.

772

She's one of my best friends, honestly.

773

Um, she didn't have a mom that was real

emotionally and physically intimate, and

774

so she didn't, she didn't know how to

give that or could only give it to the

775

degree that she received it, you know?

776

So I was a little kid

that needed a lot of love.

777

I, I wanted a lot of, you know, I had

two older brothers and so they weren't,

778

you know, I didn't have sisters and,

again, I'm not blaming any of this, but

779

God's starting to show me some things.

780

He also showed me when I was like eight

or 10 years old, my dad sat me down and

781

had a conversation, I guess, you know,

he thought he'd take on the birds and

782

the bees talk with me when my mom was

unaware and he told me that all men are

783

dogs and that they wanted one thing from

me and that they used me and then be done.

784

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Well,

there's that deep seated mistrust of men.

785

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

Oh, and I had no clue, you know?

786

And I believe, I love my

787

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Of course.

788

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: him.

789

He was a man himself.

790

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

791

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

like, okay.

792

I mean, there's, goes back to when I was

two years old and this thing happened

793

and I was set on the side of the freeway

and told that if I didn't stop crying at

794

two years old, that I was gonna be left.

795

So there's abandonment

stuff, there's all of this.

796

And, and it all plays a role.

797

Satan is always planting seeds to try

to just divert from the goodness of

798

God and the ways that God is designed

and, and to fill the voids that we

799

have, that we were given, that God

created us with these longings.

800

And He, he gave us the longings

to have them fulfilled.

801

But he wants to show

us how to fulfill 'em.

802

'cause he is the one who created 'em.

803

He knows the best ways

for them to be fulfilled.

804

And Satan's plan is, God's not good.

805

He doesn't know you go figure it out.

806

You'll, you can fill those.

807

And that's what I did my whole life.

808

And, and so the Lord's just

been showing me in his.

809

In his tenderness, like where some of

these things kind of started and he's

810

going back and bringing deep healing.

811

Deep healing.

812

So much so that I never in my

life thought I would get married.

813

I never thought I had a desire for

marriage, even though I did marry a man, I

814

married him out of fear that I'd be alone.

815

And I just thought, I, I had to so

that I wouldn't be gay or wouldn't

816

have these desires for women.

817

And that's not an answer.

818

But, but in that as, as I'm allowing my

whole life to be open to the Lord, he's

819

starting to heal these deep rooted things

like deep seated stuff in me that rooted

820

way back before I even kind of knew

and, and it's kind of making some sense

821

and it's, he's, he's, I always say, God

won't heal what you don't let him touch.

822

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Hmm.

823

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: So as

I like Jesus, whatever you wanna get

824

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

825

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: I

don't wanna like, wanna witch hunt,

826

but whatever you wanna get to, I give

you access, do whatever you wanna do.

827

And he is bringing deep healing and he

is showing me like, no, these longings

828

Kim that you've had, they have been good.

829

They have been.

830

And they just weren't met Kim.

831

And all your life you've

been trying to meet 'em.

832

And so now I'm like learning at

my age to, and I, you know, I,

833

I go to counseling on my own.

834

I desire it.

835

Nobody, it's not conversion therapy, she's

not trying to make me not like women.

836

She's helping me to navigate desires

and feelings and and present, you know?

837

And, um, and in it, I'm, I'm realizing

like, okay, I'm gonna learn even

838

friendship with women, what that looks

like to have intimate friendship.

839

Uh, that's not perverted or twisted

or distorted, and it's been beautiful.

840

And as those are, as that's being

fulfilled and I'm learning keyword

841

learning, and I'm learning that, I'm

realizing he's filling up my tank.

842

Like, and then there's still,

like, at the end of the day, I've

843

got great female friendships.

844

I've got great male friendships.

845

And guess what?

846

There's still a longing.

847

And I'm like, what is this God?

848

And he is like, it's the

longing for marriage.

849

And I'm like, what?

850

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

851

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Like what?

852

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

853

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: Like

first and foremost, my number one longing.

854

Like it says in scripture, it says

like a deer, that pants for water.

855

So your soul longs for the living God.

856

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

857

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: No one on

this earth, no male, no female, no title,

858

no career, no nothing, no success can feed

and nourish my soul or complete me except

859

Jesus Christ himself, except God himself.

860

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Amen.

861

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: that.

862

is first for me and then deep friendships

and, and, and God, God relationships.

863

And then still I'm like,

but there's still something.

864

He is like, that's marriage.

865

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

866

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: like,

okay, I don't know what that looks like.

867

And it might be marriage under the lamb.

868

It might be, who knows?

869

But it's there and he's

exploring that with me.

870

And it's, it's just beautiful.

871

He wants to journey with us.

872

And, and I never knew that my whole life.

873

I always thought he was a cop.

874

And it turns out, uh, God is a

tender father, that that is in deep

875

desire of all, all that he's created.

876

Um, and that Jesus is a bridegroom

877

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm.

878

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

is waiting for,

879

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

That is so good.

880

I have so many thoughts.

881

I have so much That's crazy.

882

Me through my mind.

883

One of the things is like your story,

it's so beautiful, it's so radical, and it

884

shows like that cliche saying people say

of like, life with Christ is an adventure.

885

It's like you experience that

firsthand when you say yes to the Lord.

886

And like you said, like you open

the floodgates, you're like.

887

Take it anything.

888

Like I give you permission,

like, be lord of my life.

889

Touch whatever you want.

890

Bring up whatever you want,

heal whatever you want.

891

Like that has taken you through like, I'm

sure a transformational journey that you

892

never saw coming or you never expected.

893

And that radical openness allows

God to be like, all right,

894

here's where we're going next.

895

Here's where we're going next,

here's where I'm leading you.

896

Um, and that is, that's what

people mean when they say like

897

an adventure with, with Christ.

898

So it's beautiful to hear

your testimony of that.

899

Another thing I think is so beautiful

is you said that there's been so

900

much healing that has happened as

Jesus has revealed the Father to you.

901

And I think that is so beautiful

because as the Lord is being revealed

902

to you more deeply as a dad, as a good

father, it's like that daughter in you

903

feels more safe because that fatherhood

is more clearly being shown to you.

904

And so there's like peace and safety

in your daughter heart of like, okay,

905

I'm cared for, I'm loved, I'm safe.

906

And you're able to find that healing

because finally like those desires

907

for love, for fulfillment, for

nurturing, for all those things that

908

are being met by literally your father,

909

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

Absolutely.

910

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

which is so beautiful.

911

Can you

912

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

honestly, we're like lost children

913

and when, when we find dad, it's

like everything is just unsafe.

914

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Sense?

915

Yeah.

916

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

you're, you're held, you're safe.

917

And you don't have all

the answers, but he does.

918

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm-hmm.

919

Mm-hmm.

920

Can you go back to that, um,

that encounter with Christ?

921

What was that encounter like?

922

It sounds like it was big and

radical, and I feel like that's

923

an important part of the story.

924

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

yeah, yeah.

925

I go into detail in, in the book.

926

Um, but I'll, I'll give you like the

927

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111:

Give us a.

928

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111: I

just broken up with my girlfriend,

929

um, and I had this moment I was

with a friend of mine that was

930

actually discerning the priesthood.

931

He was driving me.

932

'cause I knew if I went

on my own I'd, I'd stay.

933

And so I'm like, I need like a safety net

that I'll actually leave and not go back.

934

And so I'm in the car, he's

driving me, I look in the rear view

935

mirror and I see my ex-girlfriend.

936

And I felt like the Lord in that

moment said, Kimberly, do you think

937

this is why I introduced you to her

to leave her worse than you found her?

938

And my heart, I was like, been hurting

people, God, and I've been hurting

939

myself and I've been hurting you.

940

And I threw my hands up and

I just said, I surrender.

941

Nobody was guiding me through this.

942

There was no pre-done prayer.

943

There was, I didn't know

this was gonna happen.

944

Just what I saw in someone who I wanted

to love well and ended up hurting.

945

I just threw my hands up

and I was like, I'm done.

946

I'm done playing God.

947

I'm done being Lord, over my own life.

948

I'm trying it all my ways.

949

I'm making up all my own rules, and I

am not fulfilled and I am not happy.

950

And I am not living a life

that I know I was created to.

951

So God, I need you to show up.

952

heard about your whole life,

and I need you to show up.

953

And I need you to show up quick because

if you don't, I know I'll go to the next

954

thing, the next person, the next thing.

955

So please show up, show up fast

and show me that you are good.

956

Like I've heard.

957

And that night I went to a prayer

meeting, a Protestant prayer

958

meeting, and I was wrecked.

959

I met, I met in a way that

I had never met him before.

960

I was catechized up and down.

961

I received Jesus in the Eucharist.

962

I and, and I'm thankful for all of

963

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Mm-hmm.

964

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

But there is a deep heart cry.

965

When the Lord met me in a deep, real way

that I, I was born December 22nd, but

966

October 17th feels more like my birthday.

967

The Lord came and met me and it was

actually through a prophetic word.

968

Uh, the pastor was, was preaching

a message and he invited whoever

969

felt called to come up for prayer.

970

I felt like I wanted to

jump over all the seats.

971

Um, and I went up for prayer, had no

idea what I was getting into, and this

972

man was prophesying over everybody in

line, just speaking the heart of God.

973

And he got to me, and he never even

put his hand on my head, nothing.

974

He just started declaring.

975

He said, you, woman of God, you are

victorious and the name of Jesus Christ,

976

I speak victory, victory, victory.

977

And I felt like every time he

said the word victory, I felt like

978

arrows were like piercing my heart.

979

I've never, you know, I've

never been shot by an arrow,

980

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

981

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

there was a tangible.

982

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Yeah.

983

Piercing.

984

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

yeah, something was piercing

985

me and I was laid out.

986

I was on the ground for well over

an hour in the presence of the

987

mari-wagner_1_09-11-2025_121111: Wow.

988

kim-zember_1_09-11-2025_131111:

And I would love to say that I got

989

up and I was just totally not me.

990

I was, had no desires for women.

991

I had no desires for anything bad.

992

But what I did get up I did get up and

what I got up with was a, a greater desire

993

for God than any other desire that I had.

994

I still had desires for women.

995

I still had fears of this.

996

I still had these things, but the greatest

desire that I stood up with was for Jesus.

997

I was like, I don't know where he

is, but wherever he is, I wanna be.

998

don't know what happened in those

hour or two hours on the floor,

999

but everybody left me alone.

00:44:56,942 --> 00:44:58,382

Nobody did anything.

00:44:58,382 --> 00:45:02,162

They prayed and left me, and I felt

like the Lord was just meeting me.

00:45:02,162 --> 00:45:05,582

I, I for the first time.

00:45:05,987 --> 00:45:10,127

That I could remember a

deep, resounding peace.

00:45:10,452 --> 00:45:10,672

00:45:10,787 --> 00:45:13,367

was as if I was just being held and

00:45:13,367 --> 00:45:15,947

that I was safe and that I was home,

00:45:16,247 --> 00:45:16,877

00:45:16,997 --> 00:45:18,647

I know what that looked like.

00:45:18,647 --> 00:45:24,197

I just experienced that, and from

that moment on, I was hungry for

00:45:24,197 --> 00:45:26,807

God like I had never been before.

00:45:26,987 --> 00:45:29,027

I was hungry for the Lord.

00:45:29,237 --> 00:45:30,947

I started going to daily mass.

00:45:30,947 --> 00:45:32,657

I started going to reconciliation.

00:45:32,807 --> 00:45:38,027

I started absorbing every bit of Jesus

that I could within the Catholic church,

00:45:38,027 --> 00:45:41,447

and then I was still hungry, so I went

into Protestant churches and I went to

00:45:41,537 --> 00:45:45,827

worship nights, and I went to prayer

meetings and I went, anything that looked

00:45:45,827 --> 00:45:47,417

and smelled like Jesus, I was there.

00:45:48,257 --> 00:45:49,037

I was there.

00:45:49,247 --> 00:45:53,687

And as I began to feed on him,

that hunger and I began to feed on

00:45:53,687 --> 00:45:56,177

him, I couldn't get enough of him.

00:45:56,927 --> 00:46:00,197

it was not, and has not

been a perfect journey.

00:46:01,097 --> 00:46:02,897

12 years has been messy.

00:46:03,197 --> 00:46:03,527

00:46:03,587 --> 00:46:05,507

would love to have a different story.

00:46:05,507 --> 00:46:09,947

I would love to say that I encountered

him and I've just been so wonderful since.

00:46:10,277 --> 00:46:11,747

Nope, I haven't.

00:46:12,227 --> 00:46:16,397

But you know what he has, he

has been faithful, he has been

00:46:16,397 --> 00:46:18,377

steadfast, he has been merciful.

00:46:18,407 --> 00:46:20,747

He has been kind, he

has been slow to anger.

00:46:20,747 --> 00:46:22,127

He has been rich in mercy.

00:46:22,487 --> 00:46:23,657

Even when I haven't,

00:46:24,092 --> 00:46:24,312

00:46:24,317 --> 00:46:27,047

because who he has been to me, I've

00:46:27,047 --> 00:46:31,097

always returned because there's

been no one or nothing better.

00:46:31,217 --> 00:46:36,467

I told you in the beginning, I

tried everything, nothing tasted and

00:46:36,467 --> 00:46:39,077

nothing was experiential like Jesus.

00:46:39,287 --> 00:46:43,097

And so even in those moments, weak moments

where I'm like, maybe it's women again.

00:46:43,097 --> 00:46:44,747

Maybe I need to try it.

00:46:44,747 --> 00:46:45,407

Never did it.

00:46:45,647 --> 00:46:51,137

And by the grace of God, it, I, I

never went back into the lifestyle.

00:46:51,137 --> 00:46:52,277

Have I had my falls?

00:46:52,277 --> 00:46:55,187

Have I had decisions that I've made?

00:46:55,187 --> 00:46:57,917

Have I had moments where

I've taken my eyes off Jesus.

00:46:57,917 --> 00:46:58,247

Yes.

00:46:58,607 --> 00:47:03,497

And I, and I hate that, but it's real

and it's been at least my journey.

00:47:03,557 --> 00:47:05,717

I, I hope for others it

doesn't have to look like

00:47:06,022 --> 00:47:06,442

00:47:07,517 --> 00:47:09,107

I just have learned mercy and

00:47:09,107 --> 00:47:10,517

tenderness and goodness of God.

00:47:10,517 --> 00:47:12,137

And there's no one greater for my soul.

00:47:12,287 --> 00:47:15,737

There's no one greater if he doesn't

have a husband for me, he is my

00:47:15,782 --> 00:47:16,202

00:47:16,667 --> 00:47:19,547

get married, it's he's, that man

00:47:19,547 --> 00:47:21,167

will not be first place in my heart.

00:47:21,347 --> 00:47:23,627

By the grace of God, he

will not be first place.

00:47:24,647 --> 00:47:24,977

00:47:25,472 --> 00:47:27,212

So much beauty in

everything you're sharing.

00:47:27,212 --> 00:47:30,312

And I feel like as you were sharing

especially, that prayer night you went

00:47:30,312 --> 00:47:34,092

to at the Protestant church and he

was claiming victory over your life.

00:47:34,092 --> 00:47:39,552

I just feel like I, I saw the image of the

prodigal son returning home and kind of

00:47:39,552 --> 00:47:42,552

like, you know, you wanted to jump over

the seats, you wanted to get in line.

00:47:42,552 --> 00:47:45,432

And he comes home and there's this

desire to come home, but there's,

00:47:45,462 --> 00:47:49,542

there's also like a hesitancy of like,

how is he, how am I gonna be received?

00:47:49,542 --> 00:47:52,242

And he's like, you know, I

servant, like, I'm, I'm back,

00:47:52,242 --> 00:47:53,772

but, but I can work for you.

00:47:53,772 --> 00:47:54,462

I can be a servant.

00:47:54,462 --> 00:47:57,312

And, and the father

like runs to him, right?

00:47:57,312 --> 00:47:58,182

The father like.

00:47:58,962 --> 00:48:05,472

Runs, and he books it towards the son

to show him that like unconditional

00:48:05,472 --> 00:48:08,682

and abundant love and mercy and desire

that the father has for his son.

00:48:08,682 --> 00:48:12,342

And it was like you showed up on that

stage and they prayed for you, and it

00:48:12,342 --> 00:48:16,662

was just like love, love, love, love,

love, like shooting and overflowing

00:48:16,662 --> 00:48:19,452

your heart and the Lord just like

embracing you and receiving you

00:48:19,452 --> 00:48:22,872

back home, which is just a victory.

00:48:22,872 --> 00:48:23,862

It's so beautiful.

00:48:23,862 --> 00:48:25,122

It's so miraculous.

00:48:25,152 --> 00:48:27,072

Um, thank you for sharing that.

00:48:28,272 --> 00:48:28,617

Yeah.

00:48:28,917 --> 00:48:29,217

00:48:29,232 --> 00:48:29,652

00:48:29,757 --> 00:48:32,427

love really does cover a multitude of

00:48:32,862 --> 00:48:33,312

00:48:33,387 --> 00:48:35,502

there, there's all of that, right?

00:48:35,802 --> 00:48:36,282

00:48:36,447 --> 00:48:38,067

that that kindness of the

00:48:38,067 --> 00:48:39,702

Lord leads us to repentance.

00:48:40,002 --> 00:48:40,497

00:48:40,857 --> 00:48:44,367

And I feel like we, you know, we

should play devil's advocate for,

00:48:44,427 --> 00:48:48,717

for a moment to give full scope of

the conversation and, and some people

00:48:48,717 --> 00:48:49,917

who may not know the full truth.

00:48:49,917 --> 00:48:54,117

But could you kind of dive

into why, why is it wrong to

00:48:54,117 --> 00:48:56,247

have a same sex relationship?

00:48:56,547 --> 00:48:58,257

How do you answer that question?

00:48:58,287 --> 00:49:01,202

Um, from your own experience

and the teachings of the church.

00:49:02,442 --> 00:49:04,932

I mean, practically speaking, just what

00:49:04,932 --> 00:49:08,652

I experienced was you don't have peace.

00:49:08,892 --> 00:49:12,942

I, I've met so many people living

that lifestyle that have reached

00:49:12,942 --> 00:49:16,242

out and they're like, I'm acting

like I have peace, but I don't

00:49:16,632 --> 00:49:18,462

like, this is such a common thing.

00:49:18,612 --> 00:49:20,227

And so as I share this, people are like.

00:49:20,997 --> 00:49:21,477

too.

00:49:21,747 --> 00:49:22,647

Me too, me too.

00:49:22,647 --> 00:49:24,357

So practically in my own life.

00:49:24,357 --> 00:49:27,867

And then with others, and then also

someone, you know, I was doing a q and a

00:49:27,867 --> 00:49:32,757

at a university and one of the students

asked me, they said, okay, but why is it

00:49:32,757 --> 00:49:35,277

wrong if, if you're both choosing this?

00:49:35,277 --> 00:49:38,997

And I said, well, she said, because it

doesn't have an effect on anyone else.

00:49:38,997 --> 00:49:44,217

I said, well, my ex-girlfriend is now

married to a man and has , a set of twins.

00:49:44,697 --> 00:49:50,427

So I think it would've deeply affected

the husband she wouldn't have and the

00:49:50,427 --> 00:49:51,807

children that wouldn't be in on the

00:49:52,062 --> 00:49:52,602

00:49:53,367 --> 00:49:55,887

that, that, that's the practical

00:49:55,977 --> 00:49:57,207

answer that I've experienced.

00:49:57,207 --> 00:49:59,487

And I, I could go into a lot

more, but I won't for time sake.

00:49:59,877 --> 00:50:03,417

And then, and then it comes down

to the, the just simple truth,

00:50:04,257 --> 00:50:05,337

you wanna believe it or not.

00:50:05,337 --> 00:50:08,367

But it's the simple

truth God knows better.

00:50:09,237 --> 00:50:12,897

He's, God, I'm not, his ways are higher.

00:50:12,927 --> 00:50:15,777

Who I didn't place the

mountains and the sea.

00:50:15,957 --> 00:50:18,687

I'm not to say what is

good and what isn't.

00:50:18,717 --> 00:50:24,747

I either, I have a choice though, to agree

with him or to disagree, I'm not God.

00:50:24,867 --> 00:50:26,397

I didn't create myself.

00:50:26,517 --> 00:50:30,267

And so when he said he created man

for woman and woman for man, that

00:50:30,267 --> 00:50:32,157

marriage is between a man and a woman.

00:50:32,307 --> 00:50:34,302

He knows what he is talking about.

00:50:34,557 --> 00:50:37,587

And it's an opportunity to trust him.

00:50:38,427 --> 00:50:40,287

opportunity to trust him.

00:50:40,287 --> 00:50:42,357

Love loving someone means you.

00:50:42,357 --> 00:50:43,047

Trust him.

00:50:43,137 --> 00:50:44,937

Oh God, I love you, but I don't trust you.

00:50:45,357 --> 00:50:45,867

No, no, no, no, no.

00:50:45,867 --> 00:50:46,887

Those go together.

00:50:47,247 --> 00:50:48,627

They're, they're synonymous.

00:50:48,627 --> 00:50:50,667

They, they are, whatever the

word is, they, they, they're

00:50:50,667 --> 00:50:51,927

like meant to be together.

00:50:52,167 --> 00:50:54,057

When I trust someone,

I have a love for them.

00:50:54,057 --> 00:50:55,677

And when I love them, I trust them.

00:50:55,677 --> 00:51:00,177

And, and so I think honestly, whatever

it be, whether it be homosexuality

00:51:00,177 --> 00:51:04,107

and why and why and why, and it's

good to ask God like why, and, and he

00:51:04,107 --> 00:51:06,027

will show you in his own ways, but.

00:51:07,062 --> 00:51:10,272

I think if you could get to the

place and just say, God, give me

00:51:10,272 --> 00:51:14,892

the grace to trust that you're God

and I'm not, and that you're good.

00:51:15,342 --> 00:51:16,182

That you're good.

00:51:16,182 --> 00:51:18,792

That was Satan's whole

ploy, right in the in

00:51:18,837 --> 00:51:19,047

00:51:19,347 --> 00:51:20,892

was to just convince them

00:51:20,892 --> 00:51:21,312

00:51:22,092 --> 00:51:23,322

was not good.

00:51:23,412 --> 00:51:27,342

And if God's not good, he doesn't

have goodness in mind for you.

00:51:27,342 --> 00:51:28,602

He doesn't want the best for you.

00:51:28,602 --> 00:51:30,642

And that is a lie from the pit of Hell.

00:51:31,332 --> 00:51:32,592

is a lie from the pit of hell.

00:51:32,772 --> 00:51:35,472

God has goodness for us

and his ways are good.

00:51:35,742 --> 00:51:39,882

But you know what I experienced,

Mari, is this, I knew God's

00:51:39,882 --> 00:51:42,612

rules and they didn't seem good.

00:51:42,912 --> 00:51:44,292

They didn't feel good.

00:51:44,832 --> 00:51:45,612

You know why though?

00:51:45,612 --> 00:51:47,262

Not because the rules weren't good.

00:51:47,412 --> 00:51:49,422

It was 'cause I didn't

know his heart for me.

00:51:50,022 --> 00:51:50,102

00:51:50,172 --> 00:51:51,372

I didn't know God.

00:51:51,372 --> 00:51:52,422

The father's heart for me.

00:51:52,512 --> 00:51:56,322

And when you experience his heart

for you, you're gonna start to

00:51:56,322 --> 00:51:58,932

see how the rules really are good.

00:51:59,232 --> 00:51:59,312

00:51:59,322 --> 00:52:00,642

his way are good.

00:52:00,822 --> 00:52:04,542

But if you just know his rules

and you don't know his heart, you

00:52:04,542 --> 00:52:06,252

probably won't find the goodness.

00:52:06,837 --> 00:52:09,132

The goodness, they're in himself.

00:52:09,477 --> 00:52:11,547

that makes sense because if we're saying

00:52:11,547 --> 00:52:16,017

like, to truly trust you need to love

and to truly love, you need to know him.

00:52:16,197 --> 00:52:19,497

It's, it all is like this like sequential,

you know, thing that makes sense.

00:52:19,497 --> 00:52:23,127

Like, you know him, you love

him, therefore you trust him,

00:52:23,127 --> 00:52:24,777

therefore you trust in his ways.

00:52:24,957 --> 00:52:28,167

And it doesn't always mean we like

fully understand actually, there's

00:52:28,167 --> 00:52:31,917

so much mystery in a lot of his

ways and a lot of it as humans, we

00:52:31,917 --> 00:52:35,367

just, we have finite understanding

and we don't see the full picture.

00:52:35,727 --> 00:52:41,727

Um, but that trust in him, in his

character and who he is as a father

00:52:41,727 --> 00:52:43,737

allows us to trust in his ways.

00:52:44,547 --> 00:52:48,777

I think the, the other caveat to that is

00:52:49,617 --> 00:52:51,717

something can be good and not feel good.

00:52:52,017 --> 00:52:52,617

00:52:52,707 --> 00:52:52,717

00:52:53,397 --> 00:52:53,967

Right.

00:52:54,057 --> 00:52:59,817

You was like, was getting someone

who has given birth, right?

00:53:00,027 --> 00:53:02,277

They're gonna say, my child is good.

00:53:02,367 --> 00:53:07,467

Was the process enjoyable

push a child out of your

00:53:07,797 --> 00:53:09,087

Yeah, it probably didn't feel good.

00:53:10,047 --> 00:53:10,257