In this episode, Bill talks to Lobby, a former police officer and founder of Trojan Well Being, about something that affects more of us than we realise – mental health.

Lobby shares how his own experience of trauma led him to set up Trojan Well Being, a business focused on helping others improve their mental well-being. He explains why Mental Health First Aid training is so important – especially for business owners and anyone working in high-stress environments, like the pet grooming industry.

Bill and Lobby talk about the signs that someone might be struggling, and how training gives you the tools to spot those signs and know how to help. Whether it’s a colleague, an employee, or even a client, knowing how to start a supportive conversation could make a real difference.

They also explore how to create a safe, open environment at work, where people feel comfortable speaking up. Regular check-ins, small conversations, and showing empathy all help build a strong, supportive team.

This episode is a must-listen for any groomer who runs a team – or just wants to understand mental health a bit better.

💬 Key Takeaways

• Mental Health First Aid training gives you tools to help. You’ll know how to spot early signs and what to say.
• Check in with your team. A simple chat can go a long way in supporting someone.
• Creating a safe space matters. If people feel they can speak up, they’re more likely to get help.
• Mental health affects your whole business. Happier, healthier people make for a better work environment.
• Peer support is powerful. Talking to people who understand can really help with recovery.
• Reducing stigma is key. The more we talk about mental health, the easier it becomes to get support.

As always, I'd like to thank the podcast sponsor, Lopay, the low-cost payment platform that helps you keep more of the money you earn!

You can find out more and sign up for Lopay here: https://merchant.lopay.app/ref/PETPASSION2500, where listeners of this podcast get £2500 of fee-free transactions!

And of course, if you feel like you could benefit from Bill's business programs for the Pet Grooming industry, visit our website: https://petpassiontoprofit.com/

Welcome to the Pet Grooming Business Podcast with me, Bill Betts, where we give practical business advice to help you grow your pet grooming business.

This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay, the Low Rate payment app that gives you more.

So, without further ado, let's get going.

Right, welcome, everyone.

Welcome to this next episode of our podcast.

I'm joined by a friend and, I don't know, colleague.

I don't know what to call you.

A friend will do.

Is it Lobby thought?

Yeah, former comrade in arms man with our background.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Former comrade in arms.

Like that.

So welcome, Lobby, how are you?

Yeah, all good.

Just.

Just down with summer cold at the moment.

But, you know, I'm.

I'll, I'll.

I'll.

I'll brace myself and get through it, don't worry.

Me and Lobby me met through a coaching program.

We're both ex police officers.

Lobby made it all the way through to retirement, so congratulations and well done for doing that.

I didn't make it that far, but you also, having retired, you said you've set up a company or, you know, charity called Trojan well Being.

Perhaps you can just give us a little insight into what you do and how you help people.

And then the Met dragged me back as a civilian firearms instructor.

Obviously, being a civvie, you have a bit more, few more rights than being a police officer.

So I started doing a few wellbeing initiatives and what I found was that there's a massive gap in support that was available for my colleagues because part of my role as a firearms instructor is looking after colleagues.

You've been involved in traumatic incidents and shootings.

So really that was the foundation of Trojan.

Well being back then started off with probably a group of about 12 following a mental health first aid course, because you show your lived experiences and it bonds, you know, adversely bonds people.

So we started chatting and it's just grown from there, really.

It was predominantly firearms to start off with.

Presently, you know, We've got over 2,000 members all around the UK, even some in the States, in Australia, and all sort of like connected through either the human services, military or NHS or trauma.

That is really the sort of common bond there.

So we're predominantly a peer support group.

So people approach us and, you know, they can chat to others who've had the similar sort of Lydex experience.

We also have a network of counsellors and therapists who themselves come from either a merchant service or a military backbone.

So, again, there's that connection with the person they're chatting to, because one of the, you know, one of the main feedback we're getting is those that have been signposted through the Employment Assistance program were chatting to counsellors who didn't really understand the role that they performed.

So there was that disconnect.

And if you're going to disconnect, it's going to make your recovery that much longer.

So we sort of like, say, our unique selling point is that, you know, people, we sign person to actually understand and have a better sort of rapport with the people helping to.

And then their recovery is a lot, lot quicker.

And no, we've just grown from there.

I mean, obviously we were chatting before it started.

One of our main things now is identifying people's transferable skills.

We've got a very proactive sort of employment sort of group where we introduce people to companies, we get them to other professional CVs, done.

So it's just opening up their eyes that there is life outside the job and giving people options.

That's the main thing that we provide at the moment.

Yeah.

And it just continues to grommet.

Yeah, it does.

And people listening to this might be thinking, well, what's lobby doing on a dog grooming podcast?

But there's a reason why I wanted to bring you on.

And a few years ago I took part in a mental health first aid course.

So I've done a lot of first aid courses when I was in the police, a lot of advanced first aid as well when I was a firearms medic.

But I've never heard of the mental health first aid course.

And I wanted to bring you on just to tell people, tell the audience about the mental health first aid course, what it is, you know, what sort of training it provides and then how it could help them as a business owner and especially if they have team members.

So, you know, how long has the mental health first aid course been been running for?

So they've been established for quite some time.

And it was set up by a professor and nurse back in Australia who realized, you know, we do a lot of stuff around the physical first aid side of things, but there's nothing being done for mental health first aid, you know, and providing that initial help for people who are struggling with their mental health.

So then they put together this course and then it was introduced into, into this country by the Department of Health and it's, it's grown and grown and grown.

So know that the tri, the pushing for it to be mandatory training in the big organizations, you know, like the police definitely need to have something like this to improve mental health literacy, not only with the people that we deal with out in the streets, but even our own colleagues, you know, that's, that's a massive thing.

And this was one of the reasons why Trajan was set up in the first place, because there was that lack of spot in those telltale signs that people are struggling.

Yeah, it's something that.

Well, actually, it's something that when I came out of the police, I just couldn't understand or couldn't quite get my head around why the police weren't looking at stuff like this.

There was a live well, feel well, which was a Kent initiative which I was, I took part in, that was really good.

And that may have, may have been, were around the first mental health first aid, but there was nothing like this really implemented within the, in the force.

And one of the reasons why I wanted to, to do it, do the course myself and then try and help our employees with that is because obviously I've been through some mental health issues within work and I think actually when someone approaches you as an employee, approaches your employer with mental health struggles, I think sometimes the employer is quite scared and quite worried.

And I remember I had a few occasions where one of my inspectors, once I came back from a period of leave, of sickness and leave, and he kind of just said, I just want to grab you by the shoulders and shake you and make you feel better.

And I know he came from a position of care and, but I was just like, yeah, yeah, boss, that would be great, wouldn't it, if you could just shake it out of me and make me better overnight.

And at the time, it does make you feel a bit like rubbish, doesn't it?

And also like when you're going through that, there was a lot.

For me, there was a lot of paranoia that people will just think, well, he just doesn't like doing nights, so he's just gonna like, play the mental health card and, and stuff like that.

So I was really interested in the mental health first aid course and I, I talked to a lot of my clients that have got employees as well, because I think it's something that we need to start to understand more and empower us as employers.

So I'm getting all that mixed up.

Empower us as employers.

To help spot, recognize and give us tools to sort of help our employees out if they're struggling.

Yeah.

And by having that conversation, you're creating a safe environment because.

And I'm sure you would have experienced this as well with your working in a similar sort of environment.

Is there was a lot of stigma attached to mental health.

You know, everyone was quite happy to talk about broken bones and all that sort of stuff.

It was a bit like, you know, a medal of honor if you had so many physical injuries.

But as soon as anyone started talking about any sort of mental injuries, you know, trauma related injuries, it was like a massive taboo.

And, and certainly within my unit, if you put your hand up and said, you know, I'm struggling with my mental health, I just don't feel right.

It was like your firearms authority was removed.

You then went through the hurdles of, you know, six to nine months of trying to get your ticket back, you know, and then doing all the recalls with this shooting and all that sort of stuff.

So guess what?

People didn't mention it until it got to the point where something went badly wrong for them.

Now they made a mistake or weren't sort of present when they should have been pressed and then it just snowballs and out of control.

So this was one of the things I tried to create, certainly at the specialist training center at Melbourne, was creating that safe environment and actually started chatting to people.

Now if you knew that they were involved in a traumatic incident, you know, certainly as medics, you know, out there you were doing all sorts of stuff, you know, dealing with kids who have been stabbed, shot, whatever, and you knew that was going to be traumatic.

So it's just sort of making contact with them, just saying, are you all right, man?

Because that was a proper sort of griefy job.

He dealt with her.

Just, just checking in, pal, you know, if there's anything you need, just, just, just doing that sort of connection and you know, just making sure that they knew that there was someone who had that genuine care about and that made a massive difference, you know, and then, you know, that really I was the sort of victim of me on success because then people would come to me to chat to me and said, you know, we had that chat a month ago and I've been really struggling, I'm not sleeping well, I'm having flashbacks, that type of stuff.

And you know, and then, then you were able to sort of provide the support.

So I tried to encourage the management that we needed to have more people who were sort of trained in mental health, you know, to spot those telltale signs, to have those early intervention conversations, as opposed to when.

Until someone goes pop and then they go long term sick, and then you probably will never see them again.

Because once they've gone into that sort of downward spiral, it's very difficult to drag them back, back into sort of like, you know, dealing with whatever's going on.

So if we can get that early intervention still, and this is why I'm so passionate about mental health, first aid is you're equipping people with tools to have the confidence to have that conversation with someone and not be frightened with whatever the response is going to be.

Sometimes they're going to come back and you think, wow, I didn't expect that.

But as long as you keep in the back of your mind that you're there for them, you're providing that sort of, that care and attention and you can get them signposted to the right people.

Because that's why people are frightened of asking the question, because they're frightened, well, what's the answer going to be?

And will I be able to cope with it?

So it's known where the resources are and what support is available.

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Yeah.

Takes me back to my sort of circumstances.

I remember I was doing.

It was a bank holiday Monday, I was doing overtime and I, I remember driving into work thinking, you know, I need to, I need to do so, I need to change something.

This.

I need to tell someone, I need to talk to someone.

But you're right, you're like, as soon as you put your head above that, that power pit and explain that you've got a, a problem or like things don't feel right, you're worried that work might turn around and say, well, you can't do this, you can't do that.

And, you know, like you said, are we.

Should we be more worried about the people that admit it or the people that secretly are suffering?

And I remember going to work, it was a night shift, late shift.

It was an easy shift.

It was a, it was basically a country house, looking after the Foreign Secretary, you know, patrolling the area, the grounds.

But I got, we got called away from there.

We got called to do an outer containment on a job and the job ended up in a fatal police shooting.

And as a medic, we went in and dealt with the, with the, with the person.

But that triggered obviously that triggered all the, the post instrument in instant incident management plans and everything.

And a week later I found myself in a counselor's chair.

Yeah, we literally probably spent five minutes talking about the shooting, which was not a problem, you know, it was, it was what we trained to do, you know.

And then I spent the rest 50 minutes in tears talking about how I was feeling myself and all the problems that was going on me and stuff like that.

And I was just like, oh my God, where did this all come from?

Yeah, yeah.

So that was the sort of beginning and I remember sitting with my supervisor doing a, an annual review like a PDR as we call it.

It was the first time in my career that I'd got given outstanding.

You know, you normally get like performs to required standard for every year, right?

Yeah, so in 16 years and this year I got outstanding.

And then he was like, is there anything you want to talk to me about?

And I'm like, yeah, I'm really broken, mentally broken.

He was like.

And like you said, he was just like, oh, you know, and he was a fan, he was a fantastic supervisor.

But oh my God, where did this come from?

Sort of, yeah.

And you know, they managed me well at points.

You know, I did get back onto the farms arvs whilst on medication and stuff and I think they managed that side.

But the, the side that was really badly managed was sort of a higher up, you know, management and just, I just did not fit in.

I didn't fit in that box.

They just didn't know what to do.

I felt they were quite scared because I was quite open.

I became quite honest about stuff and they, you know, and if they had done some of these courses or maybe referred me to a HR specialist that had done some, some work like this, I might still be there now.

Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

So what's the mental health first aid course?

Is a course, it is quite structured.

So what kind of things would people, if people went on the course, what do they learn about.

A lot of self discovery?

Because obviously what we teach is, you know, is the self care side of things as well and recognizing your own stress signatures.

Because you know, if we're not in a good place, I mean it's like that Vitari's boxing isn't.

If we're not in a good place, then our sort of attitude is going to influence someone else's behavior.

So it's just recognizing what you're carrying around.

I mean we call it the stress container.

It's what you're carrying around that stress container.

Because what I found is, you know, what the final thing for some people that sort of, you know, made the stress container overflow on the first of it is quite sort of innocent.

You think, why has that caused you a problem?

You know, that's sort of like bread and butter stuff here, but I don't understand why it's affecting you so much.

But that final drip into the stress container is the final bit that makes it overflow.

So, you know, and that's what people struggle to realize, thinking, well, why is he struggling with that?

I mean, we're over all that.

But this person's reacted different.

But what they didn't realize, he's either gone through a very griefy divorce, he's got all sorts of things, or he's got problems, his kids aren't.

Well, one guy, I mean, his kid was in and out of hospital, but he didn't tell anyone, as he's got that at the back of his mind.

So when he finally started, like, put his hand up and said, I can't do this anymore.

Everyone's going, oh, I don't understand why.

But then we realized his kids in that of hospital were a serious illness, so he had fat in his stress concern.

So one of the things we teach on the course is realizing that, you know, when you're chatting to people and this is, you know, fits in with the, you know, asking, are you okay?

Are you really okay?

Because there's always something in the background and people aren't really so prepared for the second sort of, you know, question saying, are you really okay?

Because you're not being yourself the last couple of weeks and notice you've been withdrawing from conversations and that type of stuff.

It's just recognizing that they're carrying a lot of stuff around in their stress container.

And a lot of stuff we don't realize is going on because we're very good at masking that.

Certainly within the police, you know, you.

You have this sort of like, Persona that you have a police officer's face.

And then, you know, once you're back at home, it's something completely different.

Which brings me on to sort of the support we provide families because they're dealing with angry mum and dad who come through the door after work.

So, you know, we look after them as well.

But on the course, it's all about recognizing that people are carrying a lot of stuff around with them in this stress containment.

And there's little telltale signs that once you start thinking about it, you know, it gives you a clue that perhaps you need to have a chat with this person.

And I think, you know, going back to, well, your journey, I mean, if someone was dealing with you and they had the knowledge, I mean, would they have been able to spot the signs before you?

You were sat in front of the boss doing your PDF.

You think people would have recognized there was things going wrong?

I don't know.

My timeline's a little bit messed up because.

Because of depression and a bit of ptsd and my timeline's a little bit.

Screw if.

And there was a period of.

I did that classic of going off work sick and then thinking my priority was to get back to work.

Yeah.

Too soon, then went off sick again.

But when you're talking about that stress container, I was.

I've written down, like, cup is full and, you know, your cup falls over.

Yeah.

I remember sitting in a coffee shop with my wife, Emma, and we were talking about our business, our dog grooming business.

And I remember we were having a particular issue or there was some issues around annual leave and holiday and a particular member of staff wanting holiday and stuff like this.

And this is a classic, like what you were saying.

It doesn't have to be like a major incident or a big stress or anything like that to tip you over.

And I remember that cup just became full and was proper overflowing.

And I remember sitting in this coffee shop.

A bit embarrassing, really.

It was quite busy.

I just sat there and started crying, you know, I just started crying and Emma was like, oh, okay, let's, let's get.

And she literally like picked me up, walked me back to the car, drove me home and then put me to bed and then friend the doctor, you know.

So, yeah, I think so.

That was like the, the.

I think once it.

Once for me that, that came out, that was like the floodgates, you know, and then obviously speaking to counsellors and stuff.

But if you start looking at signs and symptoms.

I remember, I think a few weeks before that happened, Emma sort of said to me, you need to go and get some help.

I remember our, our child at the time, Josh, our youngest, was probably quite young and we did.

We do clash, you know, we.

We're a very similar sort of person.

Yeah, yeah, you clash.

And I'd be quite angry with him.

I'd get into like, proper arguments with him where.

Arguments where I should be, where I'd be, should be thinking like, you're the parent, you're the adult, you need to stop and walk away.

And I would do that.

I'd walk away, but then I'd go back for more.

So when you start thinking about those signs and symptoms, the signs were like, were building.

The signs were there.

So yeah, underlying.

I didn't understand this but I'd like underlying hyper awareness as well.

So I was always turned on.

I was always like on my days off I'd be walking down the road.

Sort of the hyper vigilant.

Yeah, yeah.

I'd be like, if that person collapses now, this is what I'm going to do.

Like this is, this is, you know, this is how I'd call for help.

And I.

Having a.

My Tom, my oldest, is diabetic.

He's.

He was diagnosed and this is part of it.

But he was diagnosed and that caused a lot of stress and anxiety which has then led to depression.

But I remember having like an outer, like a. I was on a night shift sitting in the passenger seat of a car and I, my phone rang and said like Tom was in cardiac arrest.

And then I had planned how to get home, get to his, get home and how I'd help him and the phone call I'd make to the ambulance.

This is all made up.

Yeah, lived it.

I went through it in my head, you know, working out those contingencies and, and stuff like that.

So I mean the subconscious is so powerful and this is why if you can harness that power for the good, get it switched to positive.

That's fantastic.

And chatting to some of the counselors and therapists we have is that technique you've got of switching your negative to a positive mindset and you can see what a massive difference that makes to people.

When there's one guy I don't know whether you've ever come across in Rick Stevens.

So he's, he's a qualified hypnotherapist and again he's an ex dog owner from the Met.

So he did the exploding dogs and he qualified as a hypnotherapist.

And he specializes in complex ptsd.

So the deep seated trauma and complex PTSD is very common certainly within policing and the emergency service because it's not just one traumatic event you deal with.

You know, you got numerous and it just layered and layered and laid and suppressed.

But he's got a way of sort of digging really deep into that and, and letting you release all that stress and anxiety you've been holding on to for years, you know, and you can just see some people, you know, when they first go in to see him, you know, it's like they're all lunched over, they can hardly stand up straight.

But after dealing with him, it's like a massive weight just lifted off their shoulders.

You know, you think that's, that's what this sort of subconscious is doing to you because it's just controlling your thoughts.

You know, once you accept that these are just thoughts, you're in control of whether you're going to be miserable or happy.

You know, there's no one there making you miserable.

It's, it's your actual thoughts that are doing that.

And that's so powerful, knowing that you can actually control that.

You, you know, you taught these coping mechanisms and strategies that you can actually control them.

So again, you know, coming back to the mental health first air course, obviously, you know, we work within our care business.

I'm not saying, you know, we're going to come along and cure people.

That's not what the role's all about.

It's identifying that that person needs help and signposting them to the right resources, you know, the, the appropriate resources, which is just as important because as I said before, if you sign someone, sign someone to someone who isn't appropriate for what they're going through, then that can be just as damaging.

So it's knowing where the right resources are and this is what we built up.

And that's all part of the mental health first aid courses.

You know, knowing when this person does need help.

I think also it's helpful for, if you're an employer or even if it's just for yourself to recognize situations within your life within, this could be within your business.

And I suppose that the, the scenario I have is where, when, when I was in the police and we were, we were perhaps called to a firearms deployment, we would deploy, we would, you know, maybe do a containment or do a, you know, a stop on someone.

You know, it's this high stress situation.

You're pointing guns like live loaded, maybe guns.

You could potentially end someone's life.

You know, doing that call, fortunately for me, always went smoothly, always went well.

But then you, you, you deal with the incident, you put your guns away, you go and have a little bit of a debrief, bit of a laugh with the, with the team, you know, take the piss out of the people that messed up because there's always something up.

Get the, the cake orders in for those that have messed up.

You know, they might have said something funny over the radio.

That's enough for a cake.

Fine, you know, yeah, yeah, but then you've done all that.

So maybe an hour after the incident, and then the control room was saying, oh, can you go to this, can you go to this domestic?

Or can you go and attend this rtc or can you go and help out area with this?

There was no decompression, you know, there was no kind of like consideration.

This is what I'm coming to.

There's no consideration about what we may have gone through as a, as a person.

And it was just like.

And I know, like the control room are under real demands to just to get units to calls, like on constantly, but there's no, like, what have you, what have you just dealt with?

You know, I remember doing CPR on a guy in Maidstone Town center, and then that was like the beginning of the night.

And then you, you fill the rest of the night shift with normal calls.

Normal, normal stuff.

You know, you've just watched a guy die.

The best efforts that you've done, you know, and the team was fantastic.

They were on it like, they did the absolute best for this guy, but he wasn't able to be.

To save him.

And then we have a debrief, then we're off to do normal calls.

Yeah.

And that's just like.

But what I'm trying to get across is if you've got that mental health first aid course and that understanding and that ability just to remove yourself from that situation, it may be, if we, if we take this into a dog grooming scenario, it might be that your apprentice has just clipped a nail, you know, and made this dog yelp and made the nail bleed.

That could be quite traumatic for someone.

So, you know, do we need to give them a bit of time?

Do we need to say, like, you know, let's debrief it, let's have a chat.

And, you know, but the pressure is constantly like, well, I need to do the next customer, I need to do the next dog, I need to do the next thing sort of thing.

And then I understand that pressure.

But being a mental health first aider, it's given you the ability to, like, remove yourself from that scenario and just look from a bird's eye view and say, do I need to do any more, anything more here?

Do I need to help them anymore?

Do I need to, you know, follow up with a message tonight to make sure that they're okay and they're not too worried about what's happened today and stuff like that.

Yeah, it's also, you know, the realization that, you know, these, these dog groomers that Come with their own stress container full of stuff and there might be other stuff going on in the back of their mind, you know, so as a business owner, if you can pick up, you know that, you know that your, your, your, your staff aren't happy or there's someone who, who isn't present but they are, you know, I mean that we call it presenteeism, you know, where they come into work but they're not really valid their minds elsewhere.

If you pick up the signs and just sort of check in with, I think, you know, you're, you're creating that sort of like, you know, safe environment for people.

And I think it's Richard Pranson who says, you know, you treat yourself well enough that you know, or train them well enough that you know they can leave and start their own business, but you treat them well enough that they want to stay.

And that's, that's what this is about, isn't it?

You know, providing that sort of care for someone and identifying if they've got problems.

But you know, some of the contingencies and a bit like our firearms background, if you went into a pre planned job, you always had contingencies.

So when you talking to staff members and they say, yeah, this is what I'm going through, it's like, okay, so I can sort of signpost you to this person to help you out or this, this person or sometimes it's just sitting down, having a brew with someone in the chat.

It makes a massive difference.

So having that sort of confidence of a conversation certainly within the business is going to help your stuff no end.

I think that's really important.

And if we remove some of the police terminology like contingencies, just replace that with like toolkit.

And I think like you've hit the nail on the head like giving employers, like business owners the confidence to have that conversation with their staff members.

Because I think some of it is fear of like, what if they turn around and say they're really struggling?

What do I do?

And that, that I completely understand that that causes fear in, in you.

So if you don't ask the question, we don't need to, yeah.

Answer sort of thing.

But actually, you know, if, if they are underperforming and we don't ask that question, the sooner we could sort of try, we can get on top of it.

Maybe we can help them.

You know, we've certainly identified things with our employees and we've paid for counseling to, to sort of help them on their recovery, to get them back, you know, selfishly to get them back to work quicker.

But the side effect is also you get to help them as well.

Yeah.

And that's the reward, isn't it?

When you see someone who is broken or on the verge of being broken and you've stepped in and you've done the early intervention and, and you've helped that person get into a better place.

I mean, that for me, I mean, and that's, that's my sort of like, motivation for doing charging well, being you're picking up these people.

I mean, sometimes, you know, they do come to us already broken, but most of the times, you know, we're actually stopping them from spiraling out of control by giving them options.

And people have gone on to do better, bigger and better things, and they're still in touch.

So that's fantastic.

You know, that's.

That's what we want to hear, those success stories.

What I like to.

When I did my, my, my course, what I liked, one of the things that I liked about it was if you got a new employee or you're introducing this into your business was you sit down with that employee and go through like a little questionnaire sort of form.

And you could do this casually or you could do it more formally, but some of it was like, you know, do.

Are you asking the employee if they're aware of, like, their signs and symptoms?

Like, if they come in and it was giving them, like, options, like, if you want to come in wearing a particular jumper or a color top, then that would be.

Without having to say that you're struggling.

That would be like an indication that today was a.

An off day and I just want to be left alone for, for the morning and then I'll talk in the afternoon or, you know, that was kind of like the.

I'm wearing this top because I need you to ask me how am I?

Because I can't.

I'm struggling to tell you how I am something.

I really like that.

So it was like a plan.

Like a plan with some triggers in it to identify when someone was struggling and, and for the employer, the business owner to sort of speak to them about that.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, and, and that's, you know, it's fantastic initiatives like that.

I mean, we've got a dedicated group for neurodiversity, which has been a proper eye of, for me, you know, and what we're finding is a lot of adults are being diagnosed later on in life with ADHD or autism, and for them it's been like that.

That moment just explains everything.

For them.

But to be surrounded by people who understand or supportive helps them as well.

And like you say, I mean, there was one sergeant, he used to come in to work with odd socks when he was having a bad day.

So new people knew exactly how to support the guy.

So there's no sort of like, you know, pre judgment or anything.

Like he knew he was surrounded by people who were there for him and would help him through the debt and that made a massive difference for him.

And it's just, just raising awareness, isn't it?

What, what's going on in people's lives and how best is to support that person.

So the course isn't like, I think I want people to understand that the course isn't turning you into a counselor.

The course isn't like turning you into someone that's going to potentially help your employees or people around you.

But the course is there to raise your awareness of all the, of like sign symptoms and give you a toolkit to signpost people.

Yeah, and I suppose the way I sort of compare it is that you wouldn't look at a first their desk, physical first aid and think they're a nurse or a doctor.

They're not, they're just someone who can provide that initial help until professional help can turn out.

And it's exactly the same with a mental health first aider.

You're just there to provide that initial help until, you know, the professional help turns out, whether that be medical services or counselors or therapists, you know, we're just helping to sort of reassure that person and make sure that then, you know, they feel safe and secure before, you know, the actual professionals turn up.

And that's all we're about.

You know, there are added sort of things that you can do as a mental health first aid and that's create that safe environment so you can do a lot of work before anything goes wrong, you know, make sure people feel comfortable talking about the mental health.

So there's a lot of responsibilities that come with being a mental health first aid.

And I suppose as a physical first aid you're going to be saying, you know, right, let's make sure we don't leave things for people to trip over or we don't leave sharp objects.

So it's the same with mental health first aid.

We're saying, you know, about the environment and using clean language as well.

If we use sort of like discriminatory language or were very sort of detrimental in relation to, so, you know, some of the terminology we use regarding mental health, then it's going to sort of push people away.

They're going to think because no.

Of what he's been saying.

So it's just being aware of we sort of behave ourselves.

It's going to either make people come towards you or you're going to push people away.

So it's kind of giving you some tools as well to actually look at your cold, your environment in your business.

Like you said, a bit of preventative help.

And, and preventative could be like they, someone dealing with a very difficult dog who maybe tries to bite them and scares them or you know, they've dealt with a dog and then they dealt with a very difficult owner or complaint.

And again it's that proactive preventative thing where you're just like taking the time say is everything okay after that, you know, to step away and go for a 10 minute walk or have a coffee or you know, do have.

We had something so serious that we just need to clear out all the dogs for the day and shut the shop and go home and then meet up tomorrow for like a coffee and a debrief, you know, because people do need what I learned, you know, people need time to, to process.

It might be that something's happened today that has been quite serious and they need like 24, 48 hours to process what's happened and then check in with them.

So it's learning all that kind of like all that kind of stuff, isn't it?

Yeah, so I got a frog in my throat.

But, but the, I know the thing with it specifically with dogs as well, they pick up on people's anxiety.

So if you, if you speak to all the dog trainers now, if you've got an anxious dog owner, then guess what, it goes down the lead, doesn't it?

So, so having a safe environment in relation to that and dealing with anxiety in the workplace is obviously going to influence your customers and make them feel a bit more comfortable when they're around you.

Because the last thing they want is the anxious sort of like dog groomer is going to be clipping the nails.

So they're going to pick up on that.

Yeah.

And I also actually think I'm coming into our customers as well when, when we become more aware of our surroundings and, and you know what people are going through once we are aware of signs, symptoms and stuff like that.

And it's something that I've done some work on as well around, you know, someone may be a bit sharp or cut with us with their language or, and it's about that emotional intelligence.

And that bit of empathy as well.

So it might be, you know, you may have done the mental health first aid course and now you can, you're a bit more aware of sign symptoms and you may have a, a grumpy customer or a short customer or, you know, an anxious stress customer and it gives you the tools to be able to deal with that sort of situation as well.

So it's kind of like all rounded, helpful course to do.

Definitely.

I mean, you know, and you're going to get customers that are going to come into you and you're going to think, oh, bomber, this person's not in a good place and, and having that conversation with that person because I know we're talking about mental health or, you know, looking after our staff, but that is going to cover customers coming through the door as well and doing a bit of safeguarding.

You know, it's, it's, it's a proper can of worms you can open up in relation to this.

But I think, you know, the rewards are phenomenal.

Certainly if you've got a customer who comes in, their stress container is overflowing and you're able to have a chat with that person and build up a rapport and make them feel at ease, then that's going to help your business as well.

Because guess what, they're going to come back to you because.

Yeah, and I was just thinking, sometimes there may be a few, there may be an extra 10 pound charge for DMAT or.

I don't know, some people charge for poor behavior and stuff.

They sometimes group like, we see people like fly off the handle for like a ten pound charge.

But actually let's bring in our emotional intelligence.

You know, we don't know what's going on for them.

Yeah.

And we often take it quite personally that they're angry with us, they're angry with our business, but if we think about it, we don't know what's going on.

And it might be, like you said, it might be that that 10 pound charge has completely filled up their stress container and they've fallen over or their cup has fallen over, however you want to follow.

So again, it's kind of like that can also help us to understand why they may be upset.

Yeah.

And have that conversation with them.

You know, I said you all can.

That really wasn't sort of what was expecting when I, when I mentioned the charge.

I mean, you know, is there anything we can do to help?

Yeah.

In relation to what you're going through.

I mean, you know, to, you know, stuff we can signpost it to or something.

It's just, just having that conversation.

But as you said, the main thing is knowing that, just accepting that that person has got their own stuff going on in their life and that's probably why they've reacted, you know, the way they've reacted.

So I am something we've, we've definitely.

As a business we've definitely done a couple of safeguarding reports, emails over, over the years where customers have come in and you know, as a dog groomer you get your regular customers and you do you see them over the years and you get to understand them and know what they're going through.

And I think one that sticks out in my mind was a guy that he had lost his wife, he was quite elderly but Emma had seen over the appointments like his physical health like cleanliness, you know.

Yeah, started to deteriorate.

The dog's health had also started to deteriorate.

So I remember Emma did a, an email to the local social services to sort of alert them and, and I think actually that there was a positive outcome because I did get in touch with him, they did start helping him with like cleaning around the house and, and stuff like that.

So you know, being a business owner you get exposed to so much, don't you?

Oh yeah, yeah.

And it's, it's just having the confidence that you've got all these tools in your toolkit to help people.

You know, if someone does sort of, you know, said, you know, this is what they're going through, at least you know where to turn to to get the right support for them.

So it's, and it just gives you that extra bit of confidence in it when you, when you're chatting to people and running your business.

Now these first mental health first aid courses, they're not like, I don't know if you can, I think you can do them online.

I don't know if I'd recommend doing them online.

I think it's probably better to do them in person.

But they're not like a day course, is it?

It's a, it's quite an in depth.

So, so they run a number of different courses that they do watch classes after mental health awareness course, they do a one day champions course.

But the, the main one and one that I would recommend would be the Tudor mental health first aid.

And as you quite rightly said, I mean you know the, the benefits of doing a first to first course, you know, the, the sort of like the dynamics and just the connection you have in the room is brilliant.

I mean you can do them online and I've run a number of courses online but it's, you don't get the same interaction with the people on the course.

Yeah, and I think, I think it is important to have that because during coffee breaks you know, you can go to people in the room go oh I went through that or I, I've experienced that.

And yeah, saying that, you know, don't.

This course is also a little bit about self awareness and self, you know, digging deep into yourself.

So just keep bear that in mind it will potentially bring up stuff for you.

But again the person that's leading the course will have the tools and to be able to signpost you to stuff.

Yeah, so normally when we do the two day course, depending on how many people we have on the course, you normally have two instructors there.

Because if anyone is affected by what, what we're chatting about and no, but it's not, it's not mandatory, you have to sit through the presentation.

Some things will sort of like impact people differently.

If they need to leave a room we can send someone out just to make sure they're okay, which you don't.

You haven't got that benefit with an online course or people can just turn the video off and I see you thinking oh blimey, are they okay?

You know, so we always try and do a bit of safeguarding and you know we put out the, the warn start of the course that there's going to be certain things we're going to be talking about which may sort of re trigger you or whatever but you know, we just want you to know that there is support available and if at any time you feel uncomfortable, you know, just let the instructor know.

You know we will make sure this onboard the right sort of areas.

Yeah, yeah.

And I've written down something, some notes here about being a business owner and employer's responsibilities and health and safety.

Now I think there's some changes have been made to this health and safety legislation where we need as employers we need to start taking into account employees mental well being.

Is that right?

Do you know much about that?

Yeah, yeah.

Well that has actually been enforced for quite some time actually where there's an obligation for the employee to sort of provide support for the, for their employees, you know, mentally and physically.

So you got your first head at work for the physical side of things.

But no, this is where the mandatory thing is coming in in relation to providing.

Sorry, excuse me, providing the mental health first aid courses.

And this is, they've recognized the impact it's had on the economy the amount of people who are off work through sort of mental injuries and stress related injuries.

So they've got to do something.

I think it costs something like 72 billion pound to the UK economy.

Yeah.

Is it the news this morning about FitNotes and looking at that.

So at the moment, first aid at work is compulsory when you have a set number of staff and things like that.

Can we, could we see mental health first aid becoming a compulsory qualification for people, for business owners?

Do you think that that's what the, the pushing for a mental health first aid England have been lobby, lobbying parliament to achieve that and get it on the same sort of level as physical first day?

Because if you think you, you use your mental health first aid skills every day, physical first aid, you know, you probably use once or twice a week within the sort of like.

But every day you, you'll be using your mental health first aid.

So it's important that it, it is given the sort of priority that they're pushing for because, you know, it will stop people becoming injured.

Yeah.

And the worry I have around that is, like, when you turn up to do your first aid course, you kind of like, pay a little bit of lip service.

Maybe you're like, oh, go do this refresher every three years.

Yeah.

One thing I worry about is that providers, you know, try and make the mental health first aid course engaging and interesting and so it doesn't become a bind.

I want it, I want people to sort of go and really learn from it, I suppose.

Is, is there also an update to it?

Do you have to do refreshers?

Yeah.

So after three years they do recommend you do a refresher.

So there was a mental health first aid refresher course, but I think within the businesses it's worthwhile just checking in with your mental health first areas and just seeing how they're getting on.

Especially if you hear that there's been either a traumatic incident within one of the workplaces and having regular sort of like meetings with your team and just seeing how you can improve things gives you that opportunity to check in as well, to see, is there anything I need to change within the workplace, is something working or something not working?

So it's just identifying that.

And you're only going to do that if you, you sort of keep in contact regular with your, with your team.

Yeah, it's certainly something we discuss with clients when they come to us with issues with their staff.

You know, staff, well being is definitely part of the, you know, discussion and have we checked in with them?

Have we discussed this with them?

Are we doing one to ones and stuff?

And in the, in the police service, our supervisor used to have a one, one to one with us every month.

And that would just be literally like spending the day with us in the car, you know, chatting, you know, he.

In a very informal way.

And I sort of say to my clients, you know, who have got staff, that could be a case that you, you bath a dog together and you just spend some time chatting about how things are at home, you know, you know, everything all right.

Or maybe you, you scissor a dog together on the table and just, just have that awareness of what your staff members are going through and, and what's going on.

So you have a, an over.

Over overall picture of what's going on.

That will help.

Yeah, my, my sort of proactive area was, you know, stood by the, the kettle getting a broom and having a chat with someone, you know, that that's where.

And you could generally sort of pick up on people's sort of like, well, being just by the way they were, you know, and that's your opportunity to just say, are you okay, man?

How, how heavy they throw the tea bag in the bin.

Yeah, yeah.

How many scoops of caffeine they're putting into the cup, you know?

Yeah, you're not sleeping well.

Then how they sort of throw the spoon into the sink.

So I'm dead.

Yeah.

Little telltale signs like that.

Yeah, no telltale sign for me, actually.

You know, my colleagues nickname me Eeyore.

Maybe that was like a big sign.

I mean, you know, when you start to sort of look back, you think, well, why didn't anyone pick up on those signs?

Or why didn't someone just have that conversation with me in relation to that, you know, what, what, you know, like what's happened, Bill, because you, you're not yourself anymore or, you know, certainly if you go in one day and you're sort of happy as Larry and no longer as E or then that's another sign, is it when people put on the face about being happy.

So it's interesting when you start to look back, you think, oh, sure, those signs were there a long time before I had my moment.

Yeah.

The trouble is though, I suppose when you work with people, it's like living with them.

It's like when your kids are growing up and an auntie comes around after a year and go, oh my God, how much is he growing?

You like, you don't, you just don't see the the subtle changes in your children as they grow up.

You obviously like one minute they're below your shoulder, the next minute they're above your shoulder.

But you don't.

Yeah, you don't see the subtle changes, do you?

And when you're working with someone, living with someone, you don't always see the subtle changes in, in mood and, and behavior and stuff.

I suppose.

Yeah, I mean, well, you get used to a certain range of behavior and then when some, something happens that's totally out of charge, you go, oh, didn't expect that from him, you know.

So, you know, knowing someone and their sort of characteristics can sort of be beneficial as well.

And likewise, if it's the first time you met that person, you think, oh, they're quite aggressive, you know, don't know what's going on there.

But that's, that's probably their character.

You don't know, dear.

It's a difficult one.

But you know, I would always sort of say it's everything okay.

It was a bit sort of strong.

What kind of investment are the mental health first aid courses?

Obviously there's a cost involved.

I would like to say it's a business cost because you're, you know, you're doing it for your business and your staff.

What's the sort of investment for the courses?

So mental health first aid England, I think they charged something like £320 for a two day course.

There's a number of charities that will provide the course free of charge.

It's worth having a look at them.

The caveat I'll put to that is have a look who the instructors are and what sort of life experience they're bringing to it.

But if you've got delegates that don't really connect with the instructor, excuse me, it's going to be very difficult to get the full benefit from the course.

And I'd always have a bespoke course as well for the business.

So you've got old dog groomers or dogs associated with the business on that course because it can take people off in different directions.

So if you want to focus just on your business, then I would say just have it with dog groomers or those associated with the business.

You're going to get a lot more out of it because you've got like minded people in the room all sharing lived experiences and same as what happened with Trojan or B.

And they will go on to become a peer support group for each other because they've shared all those.

So if they've ever got any problems, they know I can go and speak to Jackie because she had a similar experience to me and she understands.

So, you know, you've got that connection.

So they don't need to go and see a therapist or GANs one because they know someone's gone through it and come out the other side so they can share that sort of stuff.

So investment wise, I think Deloitte did a, a study and they said for every one pound you invest into sort of, you know, well being mental health, well being, you get five pound return.

So that's the sort of thing you can look at from a business point of view.

And plus the fact, yeah, being, being clinical about it, you're reducing the amount, the amount of people that go off sick.

Yeah.

Again, it's a life skill, isn't it?

It's a life skill that you can bring to your, to your business, you can bring to your, your home life, your family, your friends, you know, it's an investment in, in yourself.

So I certainly did it.

I probably having, having you said about a refresher, I'm probably due a refresher so I have to look into that.

But I, and I did enjoy it and I was really interested in, in how it helped and the tools that it gave you to help.

Others say, certainly something to look into.

Yeah, I mean the refreshes are really good because, you know, you're getting experienced.

Mental health, first aid is all in the same room and the bring with them a lot of, you know, lived experience so you can share those experience.

They can talk about, you know, what really works well in their environment, you know, what things have been done.

You know, like you said, you know, people coming into work with different colored jumpers on to identify that they're struggling.

You know, someone may never have heard of that, so they think, oh, that's a good idea.

I'll mention that to sort of, you know, my colleague and see if that's something that they'd think about so they don't have to walk around with a sandwich board on saying, you know, today, you know, my bipolar is through the roof and don't, don't speak to me.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Thank you for that.

And I just wanted to touch on a, another on this is a treatment that you've been, been working on as a treatment for ptsd, but it does other stuff as well.

I'll let you introduce it because I'm going to get my tongue tied around it.

That's about.

So, yeah, so we've, we've started.

Well, I mean, we've been Doing it for a couple of years now.

Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and it's a mild version.

So this is the one where you can have a chamber in your, in the luxury of your own arm and use it as much as you want.

So if you were to look at people like Ronaldo, he uses one to sort of maintain peak fitness.

It's good for his well being.

The reason why I got into it is that it's used predominantly by the military out in the States for veterans and thus serving have been diagnosed with PTSD and complex ptsd.

And this obviously tweaked my interest because a lot of the people we deal with are diagnosed with PTSD and trauma related injuries.

And you know, the results have been phenomenal.

There was a recent study where they had all these military veterans.

80% of them said their symptoms had virtually disappeared following a protocol with the hyperbaric stuff.

The other 20% said their symptoms were now manageable.

So something that we want to make more accessible for certainly, you know, the community that we look after within the around services, military and nhs.

So we get more people using this because it's drug free and you know, there's no invasive sort of therapies or anything.

It's a completely, might be good for my cold as well.

I think it's completely drug free.

When I use it, it's just like 60 minutes of me time just completely chilling and you get this deep relaxation.

So I remember doing a workshop where we had the hyperbaric chairman, we had a couple of colleagues come down using one.

We were set up in a hotel and you know, if you were to look at these people wander around the hotel, you think that we were sort of like, you know, doing a cannabis sort of like, you know, testing session.

You know, they were just completely chilled out, you know, and just like, whoa, we're into some brilliant.

So it's, it's, it's phenomenal.

The benefits, I mean there's, there's other health benefits as well.

I mean for those that don't know what hyperbaric is, it's just you in a pressurized environment, you, you breathe in with, with the mild alcohol, it's 97% oxygen.

So the body's absorbing that oxygen into the plasma.

So it just goes around and it's sort of like repairing damaged tissues, damaged blood vessels.

Hence it's really good for sort of any brain injuries, you know, are reduced in brain fog.

It's, there's the benefits for those that have been diagnosed with early dementia.

It's used in contact sport, lots of rugby players use it for sort of the head injuries that they're sustained.

And there's more and more studies coming out highlighting the benefits of using hyperbaric and it's even used for pets as well to speed up recovery from any surgical sort of procedures that they've had as well.

Do you think this is.

Obviously, it's probably something that a lot of people haven't heard of.

Do you think this is something that would be coming to a GP surgery or do they sort of see it because there's no sort of like, I don't know, is that clinical evidence?

You're telling me there is clinical evidence?

Yeah.

The NHS are a little bit like, wary of these kind of treatments, aren't they?

We have a massive issue and it's something even in the stats where, I mean, you know, they're probably about 10, 15 years ahead of us.

We're still battling the, the big pharmaceutical companies who want to sort of like, you know, give you a lot of pills to pop and what have you.

And that's the route they go down.

It's, it's gradually sort of gaining sort of more and more popularity in the UK for the range of sort of conditions it's used for.

There are some alternative sort of like gps who we get referrals from, certainly those for patients who've gone through plastic surgery to help them sort of recover quickly or just well being for anxiety related sort of issues.

We're getting a few referrals through for that as well.

People like Joe Rogan, who does his podcast, he talks openly about his use of hyperbaric.

So we're getting more and more sort of awareness coming through.

But yeah, it's still a long way to go to convince people at the NHS and want him to make it more available to people.

It's kind of like a.

It kind of helps a lot of conditions by sounds of it, both physically and mentally.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's used a lot in, as I said, you know, sports injuries.

Novak Djokovic used it to sort of recover from his knee surgery, then went on to win.

I think he did he go on to win the Olympics gold medal in the Olympics following his knee surgery.

So he's got his own hyperbaric oxygen therapy chamber.

Obviously Ronaldo uses one.

There's, there's quite a few of the sort of elite sports players use this, this chairman just to maintain the peak fitness and to recover from injuries.

So, yeah, it's, it's very popular within those that can afford the therapy.

Tell us about that.

Is that at the moment a bit of a barrier for people?

I think that's one of the biggest ones.

But when you compare it to, you know, with your standard counseling or therapy means we charge for blue light, we charge £50 a session.

But depending on what that person is going through, if it's a sports related injury, you could be looking at up to sort of like 20 to 30 sessions.

So that, that's where the price starts to become sort of like button out of the range of a lot of people.

Home rentals, they're about 600 pounds per month to rent a chamber.

So again we were setting up hyperbaric oxygen therapy clubs around the country.

So you got four or five people who can share the cost of a home rental.

So reduces the cost of the actual therapy itself.

Well, it's very interesting.

Maybe the people heard it here first.

It could be that.

Yeah, yeah, watch your space when they come back on and you look 10 years younger.

Because it's good for anti aging as well, Bill.

So you know.

Yeah, I showed the beard off and everything.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, so is it worth.

If people are interested, I'll take it as a lot.

It's more on Google to give it a. Google.

Do you have your own web page all about it?

Yeah.

So we, we've got a company called Oxygen well being.

So you click it on there and there's loads of information on there.

But yeah, if you just put in hyperbaric oxygen therapy, you'll get some information around it even.

I mean I use chat GBT now.

It's fantastic.

You know, you stick it in there and it comes up with all the research stuff that's out there, which is fantastic.

Yeah, yeah.

Awesome.

Well, I mean hats off to you.

I said before we started the podcast.

I don't.

I see, I see it on some of your WhatsApp groups and Facebook and stuff and the, the volume of messages and, and stuff that you go through it.

Hats off to you for helping, for helping people.

Yeah, it's getting busy, Matt.

So yeah, it's.

Yeah, we're gonna need a bigger boat as we like to say.

That's it.

Definitely, definitely.

Thanks for coming on and sparing some time to share your insights around mental health first aid.

Hopefully there'll be people out there that will be looking it up and be interested in taking it forward for their business.

Maybe next year I can start looking at perhaps some dog grooming conferences with mental health first aid courses.

It's certainly something that I want to organize for my clients first and, and put them through the courses and then thanks for letting us know about the hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Did I say it right?

That's correct, man.

Yeah.

Is the shortened version.

Excellent.

Well, thank you very much for joining us and I'll speak to you soon.

Yeah, glad to catch up.

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