Learning to Thrive Beyond Pornography use was the greatest challenge of our life and marriage. It had rocked my self confidence, tainted all of the most important experiences of my life and become the most impossible challenge I had as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

With this podcast or at https://www.zachspafford.com you'll learn about the struggle, how to overcome pornography use, and where to find additional resources to begin to thrive beyond pornography with your spouse.

At some point I took a step away from all the 12 step meetings and councilors and started to figure out my own brain, to look at my issue as something that I had the answer to and I was going to figure it out. Here I share those lessons and give you the power to start your own journey free. Whether you struggle with unwanted pornography use or are the spouse or partner, whether you feel stuck or just don't know where to start, here I will teach you principles, tools and skills that you can use today to change how you think and, in the end, what you do.

You'll hear interviews with my spouse, with experts on human sexuality and with former and current pornography users on how you can overcome your own struggle with addictive behavior.

The Thrive Beyond Pornography podcast will bring new perspective to your struggle and keep you coming back to improve all aspects of your life. (formerly, The Self Mastery Podcast: Overcome Pornography Forever)

Untitled project from Captivate

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You are listening to the Self-Mastery Podcast, where we break through barriers holding you back from becoming who you wanna be, whether you're struggling with pornography, overeating, social media addiction, or just wanna get better at succeeding at life. This podcast is for you. Now your host, Zach Staffer.

Hey everybody. Welcome to a quarantine edition of. The Self-Mastery Podcast. I'm your host, Zach staffer, and this week I am coming to you after a wonderful general conference. We heard some pretty interesting things from the prophet, including the new proclamation, a temple in Hong Kong, or not in Hong Kong, in China, in Shanghai.

And a temple in Dubai to which we were invited. So I'd be interested, I'm super looking forward to hearing why we were invited into Dubai. So really good general conference one that I enjoyed particularly because I got to spend the entire weekend with my family. There was nowhere to go. There was nowhere to be.

We got to hang out and that was always fun. So this week I want to talk about something really interesting to me anyway, and that's the idea that people are addicted. And the reason that I wanna talk about this is I had a conversation with a client the other day and we were talking about some of the things that had been going on in his life and his response to one of the things that I said was, so you don't think I'm an addict?

And I thought that was a really interesting. Response to, to what I was talking about, to what we were talking about, but a really interesting response. Generally, because as I have thought about this and as I've dealt with my own demons here in this space, and I've thought, yeah, I'm an addict at times, when I was going to the 12 step meetings with the church and all the things that I had done to, really just try and eliminate pornography use for my life, I often said things like, I'm addicted, or I'm an addict, or something along that.

Line that said, I have this problem that is not inside my control. And I think, so let's break down what addiction looks like or we generally tend to think of when we think of addicts. So the first thing that I would say that you think of when you think of an addict is someone who doesn't have control over themselves, who's incapable of controlling their urges and incapable of controlling or making decisions about how they're going to behave.

So for instance, if you think about a person who's addicted to heroin or cocaine, they're shooting that up, or they're snorting it or whatever they're doing with it to get a high. And the interesting thing about that is, is that they might be addicted. And if they are addicted and you walk in the room and they're snorting it, There's a pretty good chance that they're not gonna stop.

I think that's a possibility. I'll be honest with you, I don't have a lot of experience with people using really heavy drugs. But from what I understand, from my research and from my understanding of the usage of these particular types of drugs, these people are doing this on the trains in public in, when I was a missionary, I

Came across on a public train what I understood to be a heroin needle that someone had just used right, almost in front of me, and then discarded on the stairs of the train. So when I think of someone who's addicted that's essentially where I go. I go to someone who doesn't have the capacity to stop using the thing in front of people.

And I think that's a big leap. And I think, for the most part, . The people that I deal with, I wouldn't call them addicts, but this particular client, he and I were discussing this and I was having that conversation with him and saying, I don't know that you're an addict.

I don't know that you're not an addict. I don't know that's really the issue here. And his response was, so you don't think that I'm an addict, and you don't think that there's such a thing as addiction to sex or to pornography? And here's the issue with that, right? Yeah. There might be an addiction to sex.

Now, let's be perfectly blunt about this. The DSM five, which is the diagnostic manual of of psychologists. It does not currently have a space for sex addicts when it comes to pornographies. There's not really like a, are you a pornography addict? Here's your diagnosis section in the DSM five, to my understanding.

That said, so many of us go through a lot of turmoil with that phraseology. I'm an addict, I'm addicted, that sort of thing when it comes to pornography use or food or even video games, all that stuff. And so we go to these 12 step meetings that are put on by the church, which are phenomenal meetings.

They really provide a space to create. Good relationships with people who are trying to be the best version of themselves, and they need help doing that. And so this is a great place to get some socialization and some normalization in terms of the idea that you're trying to overcome this pornography issue or whatever you're addictive behavior is.

And I call it an addictive behavior because it has some of those tendencies with it now. So the client, he says to me, you, so you don't think that there is such a thing as addiction to sex and this, that sort of thing. And here was my answer, and here's the answer that I would give to you if you were asking me this.

And here's the answer that I think makes the most sense to me. And it's really a few questions, right? So the first question is, doesn't matter if you're a quote unquote addict. And the reason I ask that question is because, . Most of the people that I work with, they are trying to get rid of this behavior.

And so really the question doesn't matter whether you're an addict or not, comes into play is that they still want to get rid of this behavior no matter what you label it. So if you said I'm an addict, okay, great. You still want to stop doing this behavior? Yeah, totally. Okay. So it doesn't actually matter.

If you want to call yourself an addict or not, that's totally fine with me. But I will say, and having been to 12 step meetings, one of the main thoughts that, that meeting provides you is we were powerless against our addiction. And that brings me to my next question, which is, does saying I'm an addict, does that allow you to abdicate your agency?

Are you essentially saying I don't have control over this. Because I'm an addict and I, I don't want to diminish in any way the heartache and the difficulty and the strain and the stress that using pornography puts on a person and trying to stop using pornography puts on a person and their family and all of the people around them, right?

That is not in question here. What is in question here is whether or not saying I'm an addict, I'm addicted. Is a way of saying I am choosing something that I don't have the moral desire to choose, but I'm still choosing it. And so because I clearly, from my good sense of who I want to be and from my moral compass, don't want to choose this, but I'm still choosing it.

Therefore, I must not have any control over this. And in that process of. And I don't want to say rationalization, but in that process of the way that our brain processes, our thoughts and our beliefs, are you saying to your brain, don't take responsibility for this. It's not your choice. I don't have control over this.

I am abdicating my agency here, and this really comes out in the phrase, I can't stop looking at pornography. When I hear that phrase, I often ask people, okay, can you really not stop looking at pornography? Do you really not have the capacity to look away from pornographic material if, say, for instance, your wife walks in the room or your husband walks in the room?

And that is a really powerful indicator from my perspective as to whether or not you truly are addicted to this material. Or you simply have a thought process that needs to be changed or adjusted a new belief that you need to be able to take on so that you can stop using this material to buffer your time away.

What I'm saying here is if you have the capacity to stop when someone walks in the room, you know your boss, your spouse your kids. Then maybe you're not actually addicted, but you're using this, pornographic material or food or whatever it is that you're using to just buffer some time away.

And if we can just adjust the way that we look at it, that will put you on the path to take back your agency and actually own this process. Own that decision, even if you still choose . To use that buffer at times you are now taking full responsibility for it. Rather than saying, I was powerless against my addiction.

I'm an addict. You walk into those 12 step meetings, hi, my name is Zach and I'm an addict. That is a, in my mind, that is a poisonous thought. That's a thought that really doesn't. Bring any power into you and help you choose to do what you want to do. Which brings me to my next thought, which is, does the thought I'm an addict serve you?

Does it give you any benefit to say, I'm an addict, and let's take a step back and look at this for a second. Okay. So, as a user, I am, I'm impacting my family. I'm impacting my own. Self-confidence. I'm impacting my own capacity to grow and become the person that I want to be. Sometimes I'm impacting my own, my work product.

When I'm at work, sometimes I'm impacting my family members because I'm, withdrawing from them. All kinds of things. Right? And the idea of being an addict. Let's just say for the sake of argument that you actually truly, really, really are addicted to pornography, and that it is a diagnosis that, a trained psychiatrist who's looking into your brain could technically give you, what's the value in that?

What does that give you to say, yep, I'm definitely an addict, or is there less value in it? And it's, is it not serving you to think that and thinking something else might be of more value? And this is where I was with this particular client. When I was talking about it with him, I was like, yeah, you might be an addict, but does it serve you to think I'm an addict and I don't have control over this and I can't stop looking at it?

Does that serve you in any way? Does that help you become the person that you want to be? When we think our thoughts and we start to believe them, They start to really draw us away from the person that we're trying to be. It might be time to rethink those thoughts. And that, by the way and I go into this in my coaching program, that to me is the literal, actual process of repentance.

If you look up the word repentance, it means to have a new mind out of the Greek metanoia. And when you use that new mind, which, what's your mind? If it's not your thoughts, right? Ch and you change your thought from . I can't stop looking to porn at pornography. Two, I can look at pornography if I choose to, which is just as true in the beginning, right?

Like I can look at pornography. Is at least as true as I can't stop looking at pornography? It might be more true. In fact, for most people it really is much more true and that thought will serve you better. Long run because then it really does place within your own mind and within your own agency, the capacity to choose.

And you say, okay, I'm actually retaining my capacity to choose even though I might be choosing poorly, at least in the beginning. And for me, that was actually where it all started. It was this conversation with myself in terms of am I really an addict? And if you've been to 12 step meetings, you've been to enough of them.

A lot of times people will actually shy away from that label, that self label of being an addict. Oftentimes, as someone gets a little bit of sobriety under their belt, they will say something to the effect of, I'm a recovering addict. Or something of that nature, and you begin to see the value of the words and the beliefs that you espouse and that you take on, and that you continue to use as you continue to go down this path of recovery.

So the question that I pose to this client, and I think every one of us should pose to ourselves is does it matter? Does it matter if I'm addicted, right? Am I gonna want to stop? No matter what, am I gonna want to change this behavior regardless of whether I'm addicted or not? And I think the answer to that is, yeah, I definitely wanna change that behavior because that's not who I want to be.

So if that's the case, labeling yourself an addict, that's irrelevant. The next question, does it abdicate my agency. Yeah, I think a hundred percent it abdicates your capacity to say, no, this is my decision. And I, because it is my decision, I have control over whether I do it. And I can also begin the process of choosing not to do it, retraining myself to choose something else.

And that's huge because the reality here is that nobody, I don't think anybody that I've ever worked with wants to feel like they don't have control. Very few people are like, yeah, I'm totally cool with giving up control. Peace out control. That's very I don't know. I don't know that guy. Right. And then the last question, does the thought I'm an addict or I'm addicted, serve you?

And I think the reality here is, is that very, very seldom does it actually give us any benefit or value to believe that we're addicted. That again, does not diminish the fact that there are people who wanna stop doing this and they don't seem to be able to. That doesn't diminish the fact that people who truly are addicted to chemicals and drugs and alcohol and things like that, who need to go through the process of stopping don't need our help.

I'm not saying that there's not the need for help. I'm not saying that there's not the need for change. What I'm saying is, It is not serving you. Don't believe it. Don't keep it on as your primary thought. Don't take it on as some badge of honor that I'm an addict if it doesn't give you any benefit to believe I'm addicted, which leads to these other thoughts of I don't have control and I, it, all that stuff where you don't have the capacity to change or it becomes your identity.

Then it might be time to reevaluate that thought and find one that serves you better. And this is the thing that I talk about with a lot of my clients is that we don't always start at the beginning. So when I started stopping, as it were, as I, when I started to stop using pornography, my thought didn't go immediately from, I can't stop looking at pornography to, I can look at pornography if I choose to, but I choose not to.

I went from, I can't stop looking at pornography to, I can look at pornography if I choose to, and I might, or I probably will today, which was a thought that I could believe it was a place that I was in my life where I was like, yeah, I can choose to look at pornography and I, if I choose to do it I can choose to do it today.

That was way more true than, I can't stop looking at pornography because I knew if my wife walked in on me or if somebody was, at my cubicle and I was looking at it, then I would immediately stop and turn it off. But that was a start point. It wasn't the final place, it wasn't the end result.

It wasn't the final thought that I both thought and believed, which eventually it was. I can, but I choose not to. Which is where I try to get all of my clients. If you haven't gotten to that place yet, even if you've been basically sober for a year, but you're like, Ugh, I still fight it every day. Yeah, we can get you to that place where it's, I can, but I choose not to.

Just like when you walk by a coffee shop and you don't, have a hankering for coffee, you're not like, oh man, I gotta have me a cup of Joe. That's the same place that I get my clients to. When it comes to pornography, they go I can, but I choose not to. That's. I'm not interested in that. That's not a place I want to be.

All right. This has been a wonderful Mastery Monday. I love you guys. I really appreciate all of the feedback that I get from you. I have been in contact with so many great people who are helping other people stop using pornography. I had a conversation with a guy down in Texas who runs an SA group.

He's like, yeah, this has been something that I've pointed my people to. This has really been helpful for us because it begins to change that conversation from, I'm stuck, I'm stuck, I'm stuck to, oh wow, here's a new, interesting, definitely cool way that will change the way that I'm thinking so that I can change the way that I'm behaving.

I all also, I appreciate every time that I get a review, if you have, a little bit of time, please take some time and review this podcast. On iTunes. I know that you can leave a review anonymously, and I know a lot of you out there like, well, this guy talks about pornography addiction, and I don't want everybody out there to associate me with pornography addiction.

I. Don't worry, you can leave your feedback anonymously. It's not a big deal if you do that, but I would appreciate any feedback that you could give to iTunes, any reviews that you could give because it will really help others find this podcast. I. I know there are a lot of people out there who really need this.

Thanks again for listening, and I will talk to you next week. Hey, thanks for listening to the Self-Mastery Podcast. Every day I get requests from people who are looking to change something in their life. If that is you, if you need help overcoming your addictive behavior like pornography use, sign up for free mini session at zachspafford.com/workwithme that's zachspafford.com/workwithme. I'll put a link in the show notes for you to follow. Also, it would mean the world to me if you were to leave a review for us. Wherever you get your podcast, it'll go a long way to helping others find us. Thanks again.

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