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Downsizing your home with Melissa Freasier
Episode 13 • 16th July 2024 • Your Aged Care Compass • Coral Wilkinson & Michelle Brown
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A downsizing specialist helps people to declutter their homes. For a variety of reasons, people may need some guidance.

Emotional attachment to items and family dynamics can cause resistance when it comes to downsizing. Knowing when to start this conversation and how to proceed in an orderly sequence will make this process less stressful.

Professional downsizers often have a great network of local contacts who can support the downsizing process.

 In this episode:

  • How to start a conversation about downsizing
  • How to start the process
  • Overcoming hesitation and negative emotions
  • Professional organiser vs downsizing specialist
  • Time taken to complete the downsize
  • How to sequence the process
  • What items are currently selling well
  • Strategies for managing family heirlooms
  • Working with different family dynamics
  • Where and how to donate unwanted items

Resources Mentioned

Connect with Melissa Freasier:


Connect with Coral Wilkinson: 

  

More about Your Aged Care Compass podcast: 

Are you supporting an older loved one at home and ready to give up because it’s just too hard? Your Aged Care Compass is aimed at anyone who is caring for an older loved one who still lives at home and is wondering what support is available to them.


We're Coral and Michelle, the sisters behind our business, See Me Aged Care Navigators.


Coral is a registered nurse with over 30 years’ experience in both health and aged care. A former assessor with the aged care assessment team, an advocate and author, there’s not much Coral doesn’t know about Australia’s aged care system.


Michelle is a former pharmacist with over 30 years in the public health and private sectors of pharmacy. Michelle is now client care manager for our business. 


Our story started as one of supporting our parents to remain in their own home, to be as independent as possible and remain connected to their community. We reached a point however, of needing extra support and we achieved this because we know Australia’s aged care system so well, we knew what programs could assist us and our parents.


This podcast, Your Aged Care Compass, brings together not only our personal experience in supporting our own ageing parents but also our vast professional experience in supporting other families to keep their loved ones at home. 


We will help you makes sense of Australia’s aged care system, from your first contact with My Aged Care through to the different funding streams and assessment workforces, management options for home care packages and extra funding that people might be eligible for.


There's so much more. Topics relating to dementia and legal and financial considerations will be covered, as well as real life stories of where it went wrong for people and how we guided them to get it right.

 

Your Aged Care Compass will guide you clearly and compassionately to the right support at the right time for your ageing parents and loved ones. 


Like what you hear? Please leave us a Rating and Review. We’d love you to share this podcast with any friends or family who have older loved ones.

Transcripts

Coral:

Welcome back for our next episode of Your Aged Care Compass.

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Today, I'm talking with Melissa

Fraser, a Downsizing Specialist who

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runs Downsizing with Care in Canberra.

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I'm excited to welcome Melissa onto the

show today, as this is a topic many of

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us face when supporting older loved ones.

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Moving mum or dad into a retirement

village or residential aged care

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is a difficult task in itself.

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But downsizing a home that they've

lived in, possibly for decades,

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to me just seems overwhelming.

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I think I'd really struggle with this.

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So it's going to be great to chat

with Melissa today and learn how

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we can make this task easier.

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Melissa and her team provide decluttering

and downsizing support, and help to deal

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with deceased estates and the homes of

people who have moved into aged care.

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Over her years of running Downsizing with

CARE, Melissa has enjoyed continuously

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learning and has completed various

training courses in professional

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organizing, including the National

Association of Senior MOVE Managers.

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She's also an author, having

recently published the Australian

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Decluttering Directory.

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And in 2023, Melissa was a finalist in

the COTA, which is the Council on the

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Aging, ACT's Senior Achievement Awards.

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Congratulations on that, Melissa.

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So, Your job really interests me.

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How did you get into this kind of work?

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Melissa: Well, I was looking for

different businesses that I could run

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while my daughter was in primary school.

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So, like you and Michelle,

with your mother, I had family

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reasons as the catalyst behind

starting Downsizing with Care.

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I grew up in a house in my situation

where one family member held on to

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things, perhaps more than average.

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very much.

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I wouldn't say that this

family member was a hoarder.

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I think hoarding is a very overused

word, but I would say they probably

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needed a helping hand in decluttering

their house, especially as they

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got towards their retirement years.

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So I was able to help this family

member out, hung my proverbial

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shingle and have been relatively

kept out of mischief since.

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There are so many people in their

retirement years who for a variety

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of reasons, they do need a bit of

assistance in decluttering and downsizing.

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And we've had the privilege

of working with a whole range

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of people in that situation.

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Coral: That's fantastic.

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I can tell you right now, I

would be someone who would

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be needing your assistance.

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My mum, when my dad passed in 2017, they

lived in an enormous four bedroom home.

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Dad had a work shed out the

back that was full of timber.

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And when he died, mum

had to face this task.

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I helped her.

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My sister helped her.

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I did as much as I could, but actually,

just in doing that, in helping mom,

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it was kind of too much for me.

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And I literally didn't

know where to start.

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And I would make a start in one

room and I'd move to the next

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room and I got nothing done.

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And I, found it really difficult.

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Mom managed to get on and really much.

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Move everything out of the house

and downsize into her own post.

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But for me, I know I would

really struggle with this.

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It's a huge job.

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It's the physical task of it.

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And I think it's the

emotional attachment and the.

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Release, I don't know, the giving

away of the memories that are

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attached to all those items.

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I would just find it very, very difficult.

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So our conversation today, really

going to enjoy, I think, and I'm

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sure our listeners will as well.

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So I know in the kind of work that

I do, conversations with aging

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parents about future planning or

support at home and alternative

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accommodation, when indicated, are

really difficult to initiate sometimes.

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Based with this task, how do you

suggest a family member begin a

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conversation about downsizing?

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Melissa: Well, you, mentioned the key

word there, when indicated alternative

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accommodation is something that

sometimes the family members want, but

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that the older person might not want.

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And it really comes down to that agency.

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And where you don't have the hospital

saying you can't come home or you can only

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come home if you need to clear some items.

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very rarely is it that drastic usually.

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People already have the idea of

decluttering and downsizing on their

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mind, so I guess just to open up that

conversation in a non judgmental way,

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if you can, and perhaps not attached

to the idea of physically moving and

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selecting a new accommodation type.

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It might just be, oh, hey mum.

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Let me deal with the kids clothes

in the cupboard if you want me to.

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It can be starting somewhere small

and working over a period of months or

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years to relieve some of that burden

from the person themselves and from

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family members further down the track.

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Coral: Yeah, excellent.

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So look, Melissa, what if they're

completely resistant to the idea?

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Do you have any tips for

overcoming hesitation?

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Melissa: really depends on the

situation they find themselves in.

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If it is that they are a genuine hoarder

someone who does find it very difficult

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to part with things for emotional

reasons, , not just physical reasons.

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If they're in that situation, it can be,

of course, useful to get external help in.

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But if they're Just finding themselves,

going through all of the normal

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emotions around decluttering and

downsizing and perhaps some family

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dynamics around not wanting to

accept help from their children.

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Then that's I guess the situation where,

you might want to take the pressure out

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and see what's behind the resistance.

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There's a lot of shame

and negative emotions.

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Caught up in decluttering and downsizing.

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So if you can identify, is the

resistance around letting go of things?

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Is the resistance around

this person helping?

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It might be child number one doesn't make

any headway, but child number two does.

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For example, so identifying those

reasons behind the resistance, I

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think is, the number one step there.

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Coral: All right.

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And is that something that you would

typically do with within your role?

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Melissa: Often it's really helpful

to work out who's doing which role.

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So where we've been brought in, we've

been brought in usually in a role of

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doing the bulk of the decluttering.

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But that doesn't mean to say that

the family members don't each

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have their own distinct roles that

they might want to continue to do.

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It really depends on the family, but

there's no shame in and it's really,

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really good to have those distinct roles

where external people form a part, but

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also even within the family, even when

people are not getting external help

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to draw up and say, Which person is

in charge of which sort of decisions,

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whether it's to do with the accommodation

selection, which family member might be

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in charge of decluttering the garage.

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And I mean, of course, sadly, these

often come on gender lines, don't they?

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Coral: they do.

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Yes.

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Same as in our line of work.

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Yeah.

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Melissa: And it comes to often where

one female family member is kind of

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holding the can and they're struggling.

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So they'll reach out and

say, I've had enough.

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really need some assistance, guidance,

someone to pass this over onto where

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they've made some key decisions.

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They've sorted through all the important

things of the family and they just need

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someone else to help clear the rest.

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Coral: Absolutely.

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So, if a family member is looking

for help to downsize a loved one's

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home, should they hire a professional

organizer or a downsizing specialist?

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Melissa: Yeah, those are

two different things.

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and they do overlap, and there

are professional organisers who

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work in downsizing, and there

are downsizing specialists who

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also help in home organisation.

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But it's not necessarily the case that.

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Both of those jobs always overlap

and different people do, I guess help

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different clientele in this area.

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But I guess I would say that

with a downsizing specialist,

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they're more likely to have more

contacts in the areas of sales.

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And especially with moving.

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Very rarely are professional organizers

working with people who are moving.

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Or with big jobs like estate clearances.

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So, if it is that they're

downsizing the family home.

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Sometimes it's really good to.

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interview or look up a couple of

downsizing specialist companies

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and see what they have to offer.

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They often offer free in home visits

where they can talk to the person

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and talk to the family about their

approach and how they go about things.

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But most importantly, they've

got the local contacts

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where they do have the

secondhand sales specialists.

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The removalists they've got the

contact lists for the local area.

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Coral: Excellent.

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Yep.

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Does a downsize for aged care differ

from a downsize if someone was

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moving into a retirement village?

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Melissa: Yeah, they can be

two very different things.

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move into retirement villages,

it tends to take place over

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a much longer period of time.

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So we tell people a minimum of

three months if it's a rush move.

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But usually a move to a retirement village

can take place over a six month period.

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Or longer, where people are

actively involved and actively

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making decisions about what

they want to do with everything.

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And with a downsize to aged

care, as you say, that's often

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prompted by a medical situation.

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So often there's an imperative for

them to move sooner rather than later.

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Coral: Mm.

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Melissa: And of course they've only

got the hotel room sort of set up.

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They're not taking as many things as

they would to a retirement village.

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Usually we find it's about five boxes

or so that people tend to move into the

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aged care assisted living accommodation

rooms it's great if someone close

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to the person can pack those boxes

and identify, well, what are the

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clothes that they're usually wearing?

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What are the things that they'd

really like to have around them?

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And then it's about dealing

with everything that's left.

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after that move to aged care.

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Coral: Look, one of the biggest

challenges, I guess, is deciding what to

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keep, what to donate, and what to sell.

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I know this would be

my greatest challenges.

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I'm really sentimental and I just would

not be able to part with anything.

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But knowing that this task has

to be completed, how can families

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approach this effectively?

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Melissa: I think you'd surprise

yourself once you got on a roll

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there, how you'd go about dealing

with those sentimental items.

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I really do think that once

people get on a roll with it, the

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process does become a lot easier.

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But one thing that we find has been

really helpful is to sequence the process.

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if sales information can be gotten

up front, if it is that people

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are looking to sell items, that

can give people a lot of clarity.

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It's really surprising how much

clarity you can get from a sales expert

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saying, well, that's worth money.

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That's not worth money and to look

around , things that have meaning

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to you from a cold sales perspective

to go, well, you could sell that.

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You can't sell that.

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You can sell that.

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You can't sell that.

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And when something's not worth

selling, sometimes it magically

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becomes a lot easier to donate.

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Coral: That's really interesting.

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I was kind of unaware

of that aspect of this.

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So , do you connect people to someone

who would advise them on the sales?

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Is that how that works?

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Melissa: Yeah, well, we've been

really lucky to, develop contacts

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in this area and we've got a lady

on our team who she used to work at

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our local high end auction house.

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So on our team we have that great

knowledge about what's worth selling

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on the second hand and antique market.

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But if you don't have those

contacts I guess to look up your

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local sales outlet, antique dealer.

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Auction houses are great.

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If you live in a metropolitan or regional

centre, they can really advise you

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on, if you send them photos, they can

really advise you on which of those

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things are worth putting to, say, an

antiques auction or a secondhand auction.

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Coral: So Melissa, you've really caught

my interest on this point and I just

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wanted to ask you what are the

things that generally I guess would

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be the items that You know, you would

typically sell that you could anticipate

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would reliably sell if you listed them,

whether they're antiques or not the first

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things that spring to my mind are things

like, perhaps furniture and equipment

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and hospital type beds and lounge suites.

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But are there, any typical

items that, always sell well?

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Melissa: Sure, it's interesting.

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People's expectations are

so vastly different from the

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reality on those platforms.

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Secondhand auction market.

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With the secondhand auction market being

the way it is, the fact that people

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aren't collecting certain items, don't

have display cases under the age of 50.

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The market is very different from

when the signs of the middle class

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home were that you collected your

pewter glasses and the crystal and

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the china and all of those things.

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So sometimes people will

set aside those things.

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As things that they hope to get

a bit of money back from, but it

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can be other things that end up

selling a bit better for them.

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Of course, solid silver that sells

there's no questions about being able

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to sell solid silver or particularly

rare furniture or something like that.

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But furniture can be hard, the

reproduction sort of Victorian

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furniture that you get.

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there isn't much demand for that.

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There isn't much demand for display

cases or a lot of the china, a lot

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of the glassware but there is demand

for, I guess, retro 70s floral china.

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Coral: Right.

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Melissa: There's also demand

for Bakelite telephones.

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And I guess that mid century

look is very in at the moment.

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So, all of the mid century

gorgeous tapered teak

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furniture, that sells very well.

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So, it depends on what it is.

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But I do find that people's

expectations are sometimes

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higher than what the market will

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bear.

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An antiques dealer one day said

something that I thought was very

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useful, which was, Rare items are rare.

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Coral: Okay.

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Melissa: So rather than looking to

recoup to sell things for the highest

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possible price and to think about what

people paid for things when stamp

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collections were more valuable and

crystal collections were more valuable

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I find it useful to just think that

they'll get extra pocket money for it.

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And yeah, those things may well

be worth selling as a job lot.

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at auction and get them some pocket money.

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And at least they find

a good home that way.

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And at least I mean, the silver

lining is, of course, people's

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homes are worth more than their

collections will usually ever be.

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Coral: Fantastic points, Melissa.

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Are there any special strategies

for managing those family

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heirlooms and antiques and items

that are especially sentimental?

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Melissa: Well, we talked about

making those sales decisions upfront.

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It's also really, really helpful to

get family decisions made up front.

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So at the start of the downsizing

process to either take photos.

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or make a list to where the family members

are making those individual decisions on,

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I'd like that painting, or could I please

have those few books or whatever it is.

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So that nobody has to be left

wondering, oh, does someone want that?

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And who wants this?

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And who wants that?

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Because like it's often talked about

at the moment, people don't usually

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have the capacity in their homes.

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To take on their parents

or grandparents items.

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Coral: No, you're right.

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And that's a situation I actually find

myself in some of the furniture leftover

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from mum and dad's place that You know,

we had this discussion my siblings and

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I, and there were a few pieces that I

wanted, and I absolutely loved them.

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It was furniture that, my

father absolutely loved and

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was important to him.

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So I've taken them into my

home, but they don't fit.

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They don't fit aesthetically in my home,

and so I still have them, and I've got

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to that point now where I'm thinking

as much as I don't want to, I think I'm

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going to have to sell them because I can't

just keep them in the spare room forever.

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It's it's a difficult thing.

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Melissa: and I guess the benefit of you selling the items or re homing

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those items is that whoever you re home

them to is going to give them a new

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life and value them and whatever else.

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There's really no point in your house

becoming a museum for things that

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you're not actively using, of course.

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And another thing is that

I found really useful.

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There's a great quote from Peter

Walsh that says, Those things were

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designed to make your parents happy.

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They're not designed to make you happy.

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Coral: Oh, I like that.

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I like that.

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Melissa: I found it really,

really useful there's a lot of

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guilt around sentimental items.

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I And would just be so happy if

people could, free themselves from

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that guilt of oh, I have to keep that

because that was important to mum.

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Well you know, you can still

honour that thing by, of

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course, finding that new home.

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Coral: Fantastic point.

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how do you approach if siblings

disagree about how to handle

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this downsizing process?

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Melissa: It can be tricky, some

of those family dynamics, and one

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spokesperson in charge is always helpful.

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Having defined roles.

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For each person can solve a lot of

problems it's just a matter of deciding

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who gets what in the downsizing

process, then having an agreed

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process, like a document listing out

the heirlooms and having people put

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their names against them can help.

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Those documents usually solve a lot of

the issues, but if people don't agree,

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then let's say two people put themselves

against the particular heirloom.

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Well, those two people sorting it

out among themselves can sometimes

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be a good kind of conflict resolution

process there for some families.

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Upshot is having clear roles and clear

processes in place can be effective.

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Coral: If the siblings were really

struggling to get that clarity between

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themselves, is that a conversation

that you could facilitate or mediate

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yourself and sort of guide them

into having to make that decision?

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Because I'm, I can imagine otherwise

things would be going around and

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around a circle and process of

decluttering isn't progressing

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because the siblings can't agree on.

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Who's going to take ownership

and who's going to do what?

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Can you help them through that process?

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Melissa: Very rarely

do we come across that.

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I can only think in our seven years of

doing this, I can only think of one family

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where we kind of reached an impasse.

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And again, they were just so conflict

oriented that we found that weren't able

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to help them progress there because of the

dynamic just not being a productive one

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for them or us or anyone involved there.

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Usually having that photo process

or that document process sorts out

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most of those sorts of decisions.

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And I truly believe that

most people are good people.

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They want to see mum and dad well set up.

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And even if other siblings don't

think that the other sibling is doing

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enough, usually people will have that

goodwill to move the process along there.

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Coral: Okay, great.

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Melissa: If that answers

your question there.

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Coral: Yeah, no, it does.

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It kind of surprises me.

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I, was kind of expecting you to

say, that that issue would be more

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common than what you've experienced.

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So it's good to know

that it's, less common.

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So once things have been sorted, where

can people find good places to donate

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unwanted items that are in good condition?

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Melissa: Yeah, I mean, that's the

question, isn't it, with I guess

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some of those becoming over full and

people worried about contributing

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to waste and all the rest.

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Of course, there's no easy answer

to that where you know, you just

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have to do your best with the types

of items that you come across.

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But I would encourage people to.

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Not re home items individually

if they can help it.

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It just adds time to the process.

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So let's say you've got 10,

000 items in the average home.

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You'll be there 10 years

finding individual destinations

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for each of those items.

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I would encourage you where

you can possibly do so to

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bulk re home those items.

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And the large charities, even

though they get You know, a bit

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of bad press or whatever else.

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If you are confident that things are

in clean and saleable condition, I have

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no compunction whatsoever about bulk

donating items to Salvos or Vinnies

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or any of the other large charities.

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And it's a great service for

people who are downsizing.

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You can box up those household

items in great condition and

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they'll pick it up for free.

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What other service will come

and help you do that for free?

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Coral: I know there's no other service.

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It's a great option.

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So look I guess the big clear message

that I've taken away from our discussion

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today , if you can avoid it not to leave.

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downsizing or a decluttering task until

the crisis happens because when the

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crisis happens, there's so much going

on and then to put downsizing someone's

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home uh, whether it's been a crisis

decision of moving mum or dad into aged

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care just makes it much, much harder.

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So I guess my big takeaway from this

is to start this sooner rather than

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later in those small increments,

like you suggested, perhaps just

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starting in a spare room or starting

with clothes that haven't been worn

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for a long time and just gradually

chip away at it over time if you can.

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Melissa: Oh, we were, we just worked with

a family where they did exactly that.

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And it meant that our process was

so smooth and so easy that they

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actually needed us very little.

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Where each Christmas that

they visited mum and dad.

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They would do a cupboard, do

the garage, whatever it was.

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And they did that over

a period of 10 years.

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Now, some people, of course, most

people don't have that luxury.

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But again, if the family dynamics are

amenable to it it removes the burden

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from both yourself And the person

living in the home to chip away at it

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gradually if you can now not everybody

can, and a lot of people are busy, a

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lot of people are working in full-time

or part-time and living interstate.

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And again there's absolutely no shame in

getting external help in those situations.

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Coral: Absolutely.

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Melissa, we've covered a lot of ground

today and you've guided us through what

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is a difficult task, downsizing your home.

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We have a link to your website and

where listeners can get a copy of your

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:

book in the show notes of this episode.

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:

So people can follow up and avail

themselves to the support that you offer.

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It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

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Thank you for offering the

kind of support that you do.

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At such a difficult time, downsizing the

home of an aging parent, it's wonderful

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to know that there are experienced and

compassionate professionals such as

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:

yourself able to make this task easier.

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Melissa: Oh, it was my absolute

pleasure to talk to you.

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Thank you very much.

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