In this podcast episode, we engage in a profound discussion on the intricacies of couple therapy, featuring the esteemed Ms. Aroba Kabir, the founder of Enso Wellness. We delve into the subtle yet pervasive factors that can quietly undermine relationships, often referred to as silent relationship killers. Aroba elucidates the importance of consistent emotional communication, emphasizing that the neglect of seemingly trivial daily interactions can precipitate a gradual erosion of intimacy and connection between partners. Furthermore, we explore the notion that relationships require continuous nurturing and effort, akin to daily maintenance, to flourish and sustain emotional bonds. Through this enlightening dialogue, we aim to provide insights that listeners may find beneficial in fostering healthier relational dynamics.

A profound exploration of couple therapy unfolds in this enlightening podcast episode, where I had the privilege of conversing with Ms. Aroba Kabir, a distinguished counseling psychologist and founder of Enso Wellness. The conversation delves into the myriad silent relationship killers that often erode intimacy and connection over time. Ms. Kabir articulately posits that relationships seldom perish through cataclysmic events; rather, they deteriorate gradually, often through the accumulation of unaddressed minor grievances and emotional neglect. She emphasizes the significance of daily emotional check-ins and the necessity of consistent communication to foster emotional intimacy. Throughout the dialogue, we uncover the myriad ways in which partners can inadvertently drift apart, often due to their failure to evolve together as individuals. Ms. Kabir provides compelling insights into the necessity of continual growth and adaptation within relationships, encouraging couples to actively engage with each other's evolving needs and desires. This episode serves as a vital reminder of the importance of nurturing emotional bonds through conscious effort and open communication, as well as the transformative power of insightful therapy in rekindling connection and understanding between partners.

Takeaways:

• The importance of consistent communication in relationships cannot be overstated, as it fosters emotional intimacy.
• Couples often drift apart when they cease to update each other about their personal growth and changes.
• Engaging in healthy conflict can lead to a stronger bond between partners, as it encourages understanding and resolution.
• Social media can influence relationships negatively by creating unrealistic comparisons and fostering emotional disconnect.
• To strengthen a relationship, couples should prioritize mutual respect, fun, and regular emotional check-ins with one another.
• Silent treatments and involving third parties in couple disagreements can severely damage the foundation of a relationship.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Enso Wellness

Hello everyone.

This is Shobhna.

And welcome back to Busy Free Mind.

A place where we talk about mental wellness from every angle.

Today I am truly excited to introduce someone very special.

We have with us Ms. Aroba Kabir.

The founder of Enso Wellness and a compassionate counseling psychologist whose work is deeply shaped by her own journey.

Her unique blend of traditional and modern therapeutic practices has helped countless individuals find clarity and healing.

I'm grateful to have her with us today.

Let's begin our meaningful conversation on the topic of couple therapy.

Hello Mr. Roba, how are you today?

I'm doing really good, thank you.

How are you?

You are doing amazing job with this podcast.

Thank you Robha, thank you so much.

And I myself is a meditation and mindfulness practitioner also.

I have completed little certification but I want to explore and gain more knowledge from experts like you.

And that's why we we are doing this visit.

And thank you so much for joining us.

Before getting into the sensational topic which is couple therapy, tell us what inspired you to step into the world of psychology and mental wellness.

It never was a plan.

I was planning to be a journalist and I in fact my earlier education was in journalism, worked in a couple of media as a young person, like a younger person.

And then I got diagnosed with this genetic disorder called cystic fibrosis which brought a lot of changes to life.

And that is when I personally had to take help from psychologists, psychiatrist because I was diagnosed with anxiety, depression and self harm ideations.

And that is when I actually got introduced to it.

So the illness lives with me.

It's a progressive disorder, there's no cure.

And when you are living with something you need a lot of, you know, motivation to get up, take care of yourself, not feel like a burden on the world.

So therapy became a constant companion.

And then I was like, okay, fine, now I want to do something in my life.

I can't go back to media, I can't do things.

So what am I good at?

I have psychology as one of my subjects in my graduation.

So I pursued further education.

And when I got diagnosed I was told that I may not live beyond 27.

I guess coming to this field, choosing it, working on myself.

I didn't die at 27 and you see me here today at the age of 38.

I yeah, that's how it became a part of my life and that's how I pursued it as my career.

And today's been 12 years.

I'm full fledged since psychologist.

Oh wow.

What an inspiration.

Beautiful.

So Aruba, when it comes to couple therapy.

What are all the silent relationship killers in a relationship?

So you know, relationships rarely die in big explosions.

They die in silence.

It's the tiny things.

Tiny things in your daily conversations.

Like when your partner shares something and you just that one is five.

But when you do 300 around the year, that kills an intimacy.

People just don't understand that.

People don't understand.

People are like, how does it make any difference?

No, no, but it does.

And then there is this assumed closeness just because you are together.

People stop making efforts because they think we are in love.

We are fine, we are married, we're living in together.

But I feel love is not a wi fi connection.

It doesn't autocorrect.

You have to put an effort every day.

It's not a very big thing.

It is that you know, by the end of the day you ask your partner, how was your day?

You know that one question that is there something you haven't holding in it work.

These are the small, small things.

I really feel a lot of relationships will be, you know, healthy inside the bedroom, outside the bedroom.

They grow as two human beings who are contributing to each other's growth.

Beautiful.

So when we talk about silent relationship killers, can we add the emotions that we don't explicitly say to our partners?

Absolutely, absolutely.

There are these.

When you are not expressive communicative, when you are talking to your partner, expressing feel, having these check ins with them, all these emotions go into resentment.

There's a lot of resentment built in a relationship.

When there's a resentment, the distance comes automatically.

It does kill the relationship.

You are doing your job, their job, taking care of children, you're doing household things, you're taking care of.

But there's a distance between you that kills intimacy, that emotional intimacy, that connection.

You aren't having any more conversations with each other, which you need to have.

We're having the functional conversations.

Right.

So what is a healthy conflict and what is the toxic patterns in a relationship?

Fights are normal, would happen, fights should happen.

But healthy couples fight.

It's about how you fight with your partner.

Healthy conflict feels like we are on the same team, we are fighting to solve a problem.

And the toxic fight feels like, I need to win, you need to lose, I need to be right, you need to be wrong, I need to prove it, you are wrong and I'm right.

And that is what happens in toxic conflicts.

When there is a healthy conflict and two people are fighting about the same cause that can be for understanding for something, whatever is there that when they fight for that they actually feel closer after a fight because now they have understood each other better.

That's a funny thing.

But yes, harder conversations will bring you more closer with each other.

But in toxic relationships, when you fight, you feel like you know, you have ran a marathon, bare feet, you are trained, exhausted and you don't want to get close to each other.

Your questioning, I mean the right relationship.

So I, I just tell people that when you are having an argument, pause and ask are we trying to fix the issue or punish each other?

Are we fighting the same problem and trying to find a resolution?

Or are we trying to, you know, put the other partner down?

You will be shocked how quickly energy can shift and things can be resolved.

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

How social media is secretly impacting the relationship now social media is everywhere.

It's with teens, it's with kids, it's in between the couples.

So do you think it impacts the relationship?

If so, how it secretly impacts the relationship?

100%.

And the worst part is it is silent, it is sneaky, it disguised as entertainment.

We are constantly comparing our real relationship with someone highlight reel.

You see a couple Maldives and suddenly your partner giving you chai feels basic.

You know, it doesn't mean a big thing then to you because you're like, oh, that person got proposed.

But the person who stayed with you in the hospital or checked on your parent every day goes unnoticed, becomes nothing.

So then, and when you are on social media, then there is this dopamine addiction.

These give your brain these teeny tiny eyes.

And after a while, real love, slow love, consistent love, feels boring.

You know when I was about to get into relationship and somebody asked me that what kind of a relationship would you want?

I said boring.

Are you serious?

I said yeah.

I want consistency, I want calm, I want slow.

I want to be able to know what is going to happen.

Not like every time I'm a hyper vigilant, my antennas are high and I don't know what is going to happen in the next month moment because that is what will give you stability.

If you are in a hypervigilant mode all the time with your partner, then how can you grow in other areas of your life?

How can you focus on your physical health, your financial health, your social health, your anything.

So social media does that to you.

And then emotional cheating also have.

We have seen a lot because of social media.

You know, you, you having a difficult conversation with your partner, aren't able to express yourself, resolve it and you, you know, silently that conversation slides in the DM with someone else.

And the emotional bonding begins.

Not physical, but emotional.

And then you share that joke or a frustration with someone who's not your partner and the bond shifts.

Now you are somewhere else spending that emotional energy.

You would not be able to give that emotional energy to your partner.

So one simple rule, I tell people that if you wouldn't say it with your partner sitting next to you, don't type it.

Don't ignore these small moments in your relationship because that is what is giving you that stability, having your back so that you can flourish in other areas of your life.

You can spend that hour in gym without, you know, thinking that what is going to happen back home.

So don't just look at people's highlight reels and think, oh, something is missing in my life.

But social media will do that because it is.

That's how the psychology of branding is such.

Yeah.

Do you think we can use the social media positively?

I, I love social media, Shobna.

I feel that it is a blessing as well if you, you know, use it correctly.

People who use more social media and spend more time, get more influenced are the people who have low self esteem within who feel lonely inside.

They aren't just they feel lonely inside.

They have these emotions unresolved from their past and they are, they're trying to find that balance and they're trying to find that dopamine rush online.

Not only social, there are all other websites as well where people spend a lot of time.

So if you are someone who's spending a lot of time over there getting influenced, comparing yourself, you know, even when you have to make yourself feel good, you do that.

Take a step back and ask yourself what is happening in my life?

Why am I spending so much of time?

The problem is in not in the relationship with your partner.

The problem is within yourself, the relationship you have with yourself, there is something missing.

Because if that is healthy, that is balanced, you wouldn't want to spend so much of time on social media.

My business, 40% runs from social media, but I still don't spend more than 30 minutes per day on social media.

But how Aruba, you put so many reels and stories and all.

It takes a minute to put a reel there.

It takes a minute to respond to 10 comments.

Then why are you spending more time there?

I don't get to know what is happening in other people's lives.

People who I care, I connect with them offline.

People who I don't care, why should I check them out?

And if I check something out on social media, I look at it from a content perspective that how can I use this to create more awareness?

So if you are checking out other people's pictures and all feeling that jealousy, that envy, that urge, I also want to do it.

Then look within yourself.

Beautifully said.

I love your response.

Why do couples who love each other still drift apart?

That is the saddest part.

They drift.

What, because they stopped loving each other?

They drift because they stopped updating each other.

1990, that version of each other.

Everything changes around you.

And.

And there's this thing that, you know, when friends or people meet after a long time and they take it as a compliment, oh, my God, you haven't changed at all.

If somebody tells me that, I take it as a offense, I'm like, is it.

Am I the same?

I shouldn't be the same.

The warmth may be same, but I shouldn't be the same.

Because then maybe I'm not growing.

I'm not upgrading myself.

I am not letting go of the old conditioning that is not serving me.

We shouldn't be same.

We aren't supposed to be same.

So when two people are together, they don't update each other, and that is when they start drifting away.

They meet a new person, and that person sees them for who they are today, not who they like five years back, four years back, a year back.

But couples are like, no, I know her so well.

I'm like, you knew her so well?

Do you know her now?

The woman goes, I know that this is his favorite.

This was his favorite.

Have you asked him that?

It's still your favorite, you know, and then life happens.

Kids, work, finances, relocations, transitions.

So they start living parallel lives under the same roof.

Meanwhile, so many needs go unspoken.

She needs emotional assurance, but is not getting.

She needs appreciation, not getting.

Both stay silent because they don't want to sound needy.

I have a client they was having a conversation with.

One of my male client was telling me, you know, from social media, from conversations with other people, I have understood that I should be more emotional, intimate, or mindful around my partner.

But I'm not able to do it because I feel that I would sound needy.

My male ego does not allow me to do that.

I feel that I would sound cheap.

That's not behave.

I said, okay.

Few weeks back, I was having a conversation with one of my female clients, and I asked her that, why did you not have that conversation with your partner?

And she goes that, you know, this stereotype that women cry, women are needy.

I don't want to be that.

So I.

But at the same best friend of mine who I can go and talk to, I said, but he's male as well.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if after six months, after one year, she feels more of a connection with this male person, the friend.

I wouldn't be surprised this.

They don't want to sound needy, they don't want to sound cliche, stereotypical, whatever.

People have said out loud that men should not do this, women should not do this, they don't want to do that, and that is what drifts them apart.

I don't see when couples cheat on each other in infidelity, I don't see couples, you know, whichsoever partner has cheated.

It's not that they don't love this person very much, love this person with this person.

So I would say every day, ask each other what mattered to you this week.

That one question went a lot of disconnection.

Do you think society plays a role in creating the stigma?

Like, men should be like this, female should be like this, male should be strong, female should be like, take more responsibility when it comes to kid and managing home.

Do you think these social stigma make people to not open up between themselves, between the couples?

I would say 100%.

Especially our South Asian culture where relationship is not just about two people, the relationship about everybody else.

Yeah.

So you want to do something for your partner, but you feel that, how are other people going to perceive it?

You want to ask for something from your partner or you don't want to do something for your partner.

But.

But you are like, oh, then I'm not a good girl, I'm not a good boy.

I'm not this, I'm not that.

You are constantly apart from your own voice.

There are so many voices in your own head.

Your parental voice, your societal voice, your, you know, male voice, your female voice.

And it has been there for generations now.

Why is it impacting us more is because, you know, a lot of changes, a lot of exposure.

Maybe 10 years back, if I lived in US and how I wanted to be with my partner, I could be because my mom and dad are not.

Every day, we are not FaceTiming.

We are not talking, getting to know.

So I could still do what I wanted to do if I wanted to do.

But today, every morning and evening, I'm having a FaceTime call.

I'm having a WhatsApp conversation.

They're getting to know what is cooked in my kitchen or where did I Spend that money.

So I want to hold on to myself.

I had a couple clients living in Netherlands and the family was back home.

So the girl wanted to celebrate Holi.

The guy did not want to celebrate Holi because there was some distant relative's death in the family.

So she's like, but it's a distant relative.

We can do the Holi.

And he's like, no, my mom will be upset about it.

But don't tell your mother about it if she gets upset.

No, how can I not?

She will call me and she will see me in holy clothes and it would not look good.

So they had a full, full blown fight about celebrating Holi, not celebrating Holi, not because guy did not want to celebrate Holi, but his family back home in some part of India will get upset about it.

Yeah.

Any tips for the couples like what to do or what not to do?

After any arguments?

First, let's talk about what not to do.

Because we always talk about what to do.

Yeah.

The first thing is no silent treatments.

Okay?

No, don't give silent treatments to your partner.

That's the worst thing you can do to a relationship when you go silent and the other person is not knowing what to do about it.

And when you do that, they may run to Instagram stories and WhatsApp stories.

I tell people, no silent treatments, no running to Instagram or WhatsApp stories with sad quotes and no involving the entire family tree in your fights.

True.

I really am a. I'm a huge believer of this, that.

Don't badmouth your partner to people if you still want to live with them.

If you don't want to live with them, I would still say don't do it.

But if you want to, you can do it.

Because when you badmouth your partner and then you come back to them, one, you already have that energy on you.

Second, when they know that this person does not like the way I walk, the way I talk, the way I spend money, the way I eat, or.

Or whatever it is.

How can they love you?

How can they forgive you?

How can they accept you?

It's very difficult then.

But then you want them to be lovey dovey.

It's not an electric switch.

Switch on, switch off.

So don't involve people if you are not wanting to part ways.

Yeah, talk to people.

I'm not saying that.

Keep it inside.

Because if I say keep it inside, there are a lot of abusive relationships where part partner then get stuck there.

Like, no, I should not be talking to people.

Talk to someone about it.

But From a space of finding a solution, understanding, venting it out, letting that energy go out, distracting yourself for the moment.

But not from a space of, I have to kill this person by attacking him so much in front of me.

Then you lose the respect.

And that doesn't work.

And I see that a lot of people doing that.

Second, don't force resolution immediately.

We have had a fight.

Somebody needs 20 minutes, but somebody needs a day.

This thing that.

Don't go to sleep after a fight, don't sleep at all.

No, sleep it off, please.

Wake up in the morning and have a conversation.

Maybe I like.

I'm not even against sleeping in different rooms, but I still say that.

Don't sleep in different rooms, Sleep on the same bed.

Don't look at each other.

Wake up in the morning and resolve the fight.

But don't force these immediate resolutions then and there.

Now let's talk about what to do, what they can do.

Take ownership.

Take ownership.

If you don't take ownership of your actions.

Hey, I. I shouldn't have raised my voice.

I'm sorry.

That one sentence melts a lot of ego.

I shouldn't have gone to your mother.

I shouldn't have hit you below the belt.

I shouldn't have criticized you.

There.

That one sentence melts a lot of ego.

The name, like, then the name the emotion behind the behavior.

What were you feeling?

Not like you were rude, but maybe saying that I was.

I felt scared.

You were pulling away.

You were distancing yourself from me.

You were becoming this person.

I did not know I was getting fearful.

Name the emotion.

In therapy we have this thing, we say name it to tame it.

If you want to overcome something, you have to speak it out loud.

You have to name it.

What were you feeling?

If you do that, if you take the ownership responsibility.

Where did I go wrong?

Yesterday I was having a conversation with the client where she was talking about her partner.

And in the entire 30 minutes, the person did not talk about themselves at all.

I said, but could that be the thing?

I'm sure there must be maybe one glare, one expression, one word.

At least just one.

One.

One you might have done.

You might have spoken.

You shouldn't have.

Or maybe you cried inconsistently.

There must have been one thing at least, because taking that ownership, you don't take ownership.

You don't have an acceptance.

You don't change things.

You can't change things because you don't know what you are changing.

So after.

After any fight, ask your partner, what do you need right now?

Space, Assurance, Clarity?

What do you need right now, calm yourself down, come back and ask this question.

You would be amazed how much healing happens instantly, right?

Araba, tell us five things that strengthens any relationship.

Just five things.

So number one is consistency.

Small daily gestures, be it big Valentine's Day gestures, you know, if there is no consistency, you are all the time on that alert.

What is going to happen?

Would this happen today?

Would this would happen tomorrow?

Things like that.

So consistency is number one.

Second is emotional check ins.

You know, how's your heart today?

How you feeling today?

What are your thoughts today?

Such simple sentences, such big shift we see in sessions when someone is asked, how's your heart today?

How are you feeling today?

What have been your thoughts?

We see energy shifting.

Third, repairing after conflict.

Conflicts are going to happen.

It's not that conflicts will not happen.

Conflicts are going to happen.

How are you repairing them matters?

Are you repairing them?

Matters?

Because you don't repair the conflict, you avoid it.

The pain stays, resentment builds, there's no healthy relationship.

Then the fourth thing I would say, fun and humor.

Yes, it should not be too much, but it is underrated as well.

You know, having that connection, making those small jokes, not like body shaming, but having those small jokes, having fun conversations, sharing that meme with your partner, that also counts.

Because you can't imagine how much tension, stress, disconnection can go away.

If there is fun humor in a relationship, healthy humor, healthy fun, then five, I would say mutual respect.

Accepting each other for who they are, respecting them as a person, as an individual.

Who they are, that is the spoil.

Because without respect, nothing grows, nothing can grow.

You don't respect them for who they are, what they do, how they speak, how their thoughts are, how their vulnerabilities are, how.

How their weak moments are, how expressive they are.

That's the soil.

And the soil.

If the soil is not fertilized, soil is not watered properly.

Nothing can grow out of that.

And if anything, that is not going to be healthy.

So once a week, you know, I would say that sit with your partner, ask them things.

Or maybe, you know, tell me one thing I might be missing about you lately.

Is there anything recently you have been thinking of talking of wanting, you know, in fact, thinking of wanting to change.

That can be political, financial, social, philosophical, spiritual, anything.

We just did this exercise sometime back in a.

In one of the couples therapy sessions and when the, you know, man asked this question to his partner and she said, I have been recently thinking of going bald.

And he said, what?

She's like, yeah, I've been wanting to shave off my head.

And he's like, but why?

She's like, because I've had long hair since my childhood and I feel that they were never my choice.

I want to grow them how I want them, not how I have been told, expected.

And I want to break these shackles that women look beautiful only when they have long hair.

Now this question, this conversation would have never, ever happened if this question didn't come.

And if it would have happened, it would have come.

One day she comes and she shaves off her head and then there is a fight in the house.

So you know that one question alone can revive so many relationships.

But Arunba, when people are open or when they communicate, they will get to know that we have some problem.

Now it's time for us to go and see therapy.

But there are couple with no ling, no fighting, no drama.

But still they feel some disconnectivity between them.

And at that time, how do they know that it is a time to go for therapy?

How do they realize that?

So I tell people that.

Do you really feel that life was supposed to be lived like that?

You know, two people doing functional shows, raising children, taking care of the house, living their life, living their life.

Is that nothing you really think of life?

Because life is we are born out of a womb.

Every simple explanation we have, we are born out of a womb, which means we are supposed to have touch.

You know, when a child is born, the doctors say give them, you know, skin touch, put them on your chest and all.

So that means it's really important, that skin touch is really important for us.

And when we grow up, we think that skin touch is only sexual, becomes only sexual.

But it is never about that, that physical touch, love, language, people who have.

It's about that peck on the forehead, holding hands, giving that pad, rubbing your back, massaging your feet.

That is when a lot of oxytocin, dopamine and many other hormones are released from the body.

Now if that touch is safe, warm, that's magic.

What can happen between two people?

So we think it is just sexual.

But now for the touch.

Being able to touch you.

For example, Shobhna and I are in the house.

How can I be able to, you know, brush my hand with yours while walking or just do this or give you a kiss here.

For that we need to have that warmth between us.

And if that warmth is not there, is disconnection.

When you see that that warmth is not there, that laughter is not there, that you know, we are always with cards and Defensiveness, don't attack me and don't attack me.

I'll not attack you.

Don't attack me.

So you, you want to work on that.

And right now, you know, you ask this question.

I have a couple like this, a beautiful marriage for 17 years, have a child doing everything fantastically social health is good, financial health is good, raising the child.

But they sleep in different bedroom now, and a lot of people sleep on the same bed now.

They have the affordability, they can sleep in the different bedroom, which a lot of people don't have.

And then they are sleeping in the same bedroom, but they don't have that connection.

And as you cross a particular age, it, it will show in your body.

It will show in your body.

Maybe early blood pressure, diabetes, lifestyle things, back pain, obesity, migraines, PCO per, menopausal changes, then, you know, ibs, which is very common nowadays.

So it shows now I, that how has been the physical touch in your life with your friends, with your family, your children, with your partner?

And I'm not talking about sexual health, I'm talking about emotional intimacy, physical touch.

And then they go, oh, I don't like hugging, I don't like cuddling, I don't like touching.

So if you don't have these things in a relationship, you stand time to see someone because you aren't supposed to live like a, you know, human being born out of a cell, you have been born out of a womb.

So that physical touch is a necessity.

And for that physical touch, you need to loosen, you need to have that energy.

And if that is missing now, you need to ask yourself, wonderful answer.

How do you, how do you see a couple start to truly reconnect in therapy?

How do you find that, yes, that this therapy is working for this couple?

Wow.

So one thing, what I have realized is that when a couple is reaching out to you, they reach out to you for two things.

One is that they already are done with the relationship and they just want someone else to decide that for you and say it out loud for you, that you want meant for each other.

You should part ways.

And before the couple's therapy session, I have this way that I talk to, you know, the couple individually and I ask them the real motive they have.

Do they want to part ways with this relationship?

Would they like to try it or are they wanting to try it?

So if a person goes, you know, it doesn't matter what the person does, I'm done with it and I don't want to.

But because of the society, because of the family, because the person is not independent, because the person has health issue, because I can't leave them.

So they already have made up their mind when we go there, I personally go there.

I say that, okay, fine, I know you have already made up your mind.

I'm sure they must have done something.

That's why you made up your mind like this.

You must have gone through things.

But how about we keep an open mind?

If there is a change, would you like to rethink about it?

And there are two kinds of people.

Yeah, I'll keep an open mind.

If there is a change, I would like to rethink and work on that relationship.

And then there are people who say that, no, it doesn't matter, I have found my calling somewhere else.

Maybe, you know, I want to go more in business.

What I want to travel more.

And I already have found someone else, I can do that.

So you already know what is going to happen kind of a thing.

Right.

And then after three sessions, after one more thing, you know, I have.

When I see a couple working with me, if I see there's respect, doesn't matter how bad they are, differences they have, but there's respect.

They allow each other to speak.

They may not agree, pull against it, but they allow each other's.

And they don't only point their issues, they even take accountability here as well.

The chances are we can repair those relationships faster.

The chances are because they're listening to each other, they're not cutting each other off back to back or not letting them speak, they're listening to each other.

But at the same time when we see two anxious, attachment style, purpose talking, there's a lot of like loud noises.

Both of them are same space and all, but even there also if you give few more sessions, you see that, okay, they also want to work on it when they understand it.

So I, I evaluate one, what I see in the first session when individually I'm talking to them and the second session when they are, they're sitting in front of me.

The third thing, along with the couple sessions, I continue having individual sessions with them.

So if they show up for those individual sessions, then they are seriously wanting to work on that relationship.

If they are like no, no, no, individually I don't need any work.

I only want you to fix us as a couple.

I'm like, I'm not a plumber, I can fix you.

You have to do for yourself.

And that will happen in the sessions.

So that is what tells me this relationship may or may not work.

I have had an honor as well to help people part ways beautifully.

Being grateful to each realizing how they, you know, help each other grow.

Had that honor as well.

I really feel lucky that way.

But most of the come they want to fix the relationship, they want to repair it, they want to learn.

It can be any age.

It can be a couple just gotten married, or it can be a couple in their 50s.

Beautiful Aruba.

This ends my question set and thank you so much for joining us today.

This conversation was truly meaningful and I hope everyone listening found something that they can carry into their own life.

And viewers, thank you for tuning in.

If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to follow, share and come back for more interesting mental wellness conversations.

This is Shobna.

See you next time.

Bye Bye.