Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Xhafer returns to discuss an episode that hits a little close to home. Laura and Xhafer confess their experiences at Star Trek Las Vegas while lamenting the episode's similarities to real world events. An unknown and deadly virus spreads across the station, afflicting the Proud Candle People as Dr. Franklin races to find a cure in Babylon 5 Season 2 Episode 18, Confessions and Lamentations.

Hello, and welcome to who are you?

A Babylon five watch cast hosted by two friends.

Who've gotten to know each other and will continue to get to know each other

while rewatching one of their favorite shows from their childhood Babylon five.

I'm sure.

Fair.

And I'm

And we're going to talk a bit about star Trek, Las Vegas.

Yes, we haven't got to recap that for everybody

Yeah, we, yeah, we didn't get to do it last week.

Cause I was out with the vid and Ben gracious has ever filled in.

Thank

for giving me a week off, I needed it and really appreciate And also

it was kind of surreal and fun to listen to my podcast without

Uh, it was a unique experience.

I made a point of listening to it before I watched the episode, because

I will never be able to do that again.

Presumably.

That's true.

Yes.

Okay.

so I, I took full advantage to get as much of a different

experience of our podcast as I could.

And I really enjoyed it.

Oh, I'm glad you enjoy our podcast.

Yeah, it was fun.

It was a, it was a good listen and it made me want to actually go watch the

episode, which I was not super keen on.

Cause I don't.

It's not like I resent anything.

but I was just ill.

Uh,

Yeah.

but it definitely gave me, it's like, oh, I'm going

to go watch that episode.

Uh, it gave me the energy really drove me So, yeah, it was, it was a

cool experience that I hope you don't have to experience one day, unless

you want to, for whatever reason.

Right, right.

I was going to volunteer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

but it is totally something that you should do and something I recommend to

other podcasters who may be listening.

Yeah, and I really appreciated Ben stepping in and fill in your shoes.

He did a great job.

Yeah, Ben's great.

Good

I mean, it says I've recorded 150 hours of podcast with him.

So,

Yeah.

he, he fit right in.

He knew he knew my jokes.

He made some of the same jokes I would have made, is good.

He did a great job.

Thanks Ben.

But we're Ben wasn't.

And I'm saying this now that I've said nice things, so I can make

him jealous with star Trek, Las

It's true.

He could not fill these shoes.

So we've got to, we've got to run it down for everybody.

Yeah.

we,

we met for the first time.

we were originally, I think I've been set on radio.

The plan was to record it.

And put it on and then if something terrible had happened, Uh, to the

audio quality you wouldn't be able to.

And that was a hundred percent the plan.

Until we ran into each other in a hallway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm just like standing in the hallway waiting because I didn't have the fancy,

captains pass or whatever you all had.

And so I'm waiting in the hallway just to,

you know, Get my.

I get my day, pass and all of a sudden I'm like, I hear my name.

And I'm like, oh,

Yeah.

There's a fair.

yeah, Beth and I were there.

We had walked past you and our lake.

We had gotten maybe like 20 people down the line and I'm like, that was Laura.

And that's all like turn around dummy.

Go say hi.

hadn't noticed you so you could have gone on it.

I would have had no idea, but

I appreciate that you came back.

Yes.

Well, I was kinda just like, was that it must've hurt, like right.

And then, and then.

of course I was pointed, proper.

Uh, by Beth who is a hundred percent correct, then go say hi.

Um,

So,

Very sweet.

Yeah.

No, and it was a, it was a grand we went to the greatest

generation podcast meetup.

Which was so loud, I could not hear myself think.

Yeah, that's true.

It was very loud, but it was so cool to like meet people that I.

Kind of.

You know, spoken to a little bit on the internet.

right?

Yeah.

I am not active at all.

On most of the greatest generation social medias.

has evidenced by Ben being the one who was all like, Hey, there's someone named

Laura who wants to start a Babylon five podcast and hollered at me, about it.

Yeah.

but it was cooled.

I definitely recognize some names.

and had a great time and made some new friends.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the community.

Especially everyone from the greatest generation community

that I met, I wound up.

Just being, Just being in that Greatest generation.

Friend verse that was there.

Uh, getting to go to a couple of after parties that were pretty cool.

Um, one of them was being hosted by the mission log podcast.

And.

You know, we, we went to the, um, star Trek wines tasting together.

You, me, Beth and my husband, Erin.

like

we got to try the world.

Premier of Romulan ale, which was a blast.

except they, you can't call it all legally.

Because it is a vodka and

It is a vodka.

Yeah.

But.

I just had so much fun with the community.

I saw some panels.

I went to a few.

I went to a lot of panels.

Um, that was my bread and butter at the con that One of the reasons

I went was to attend a ton of panels and I'm super glad I did.

George Takei gave an excellent hour.

just very a somber.

obviously a lot of it in the Sean Nichols has just recently passed.

so a lot of it was directed towards her.

His hour was someone had asked a question about Michelle, I think.

And then the rest of the 40 minutes was him talking about every cast

member in the order of their passing and the impact they had on his life.

Oh, that's very sweet.

just talking for like 20 minutes about Leonard Nimoy showing up at

the first performance of allegiance.

Like in a wheelchair because he was barely ate.

Like he was so sick then.

and just like how important everyone was and what a family, they all

And it was super, super heartwarming and, uh, super sad.

I caught a little bit of Walter Kanig.

Yeah.

How has

and his.

was good.

It was just the whole time I sat there.

I was feeling very trippy because every time I hear Walter caning

speak in not the Russian accent.

Uh, I hear Bester

and so I was just sitting there watching old Bester.

Speaking on stage and all that's all I could think about the whole time.

Slowly messing with everyone's minds.

Yeah.

He had very nice things to say about Nichelle Nichols and, talked

about some invasive experiences.

He had a hard time hearing when people asked him questions.

Like a really hard time, but he was.

A real trooper about it.

Like he would just

have the person on stage with him, like say it in his ear so he could.

Answer your question.

And yeah, it's very

Did you have any celebrity moments outside of, panels?

Like talking to celebrities

We're just seeing, like I've got like five stories.

Oh, yeah.

I know some of yours.

Um, well I almost ran into Anson Mount, like was not

paying attention in the hallway.

Like, you know, I was on my phone.

It was

before Erin had gotten there.

So I wasn't really with anybody.

Ed.

then there's these people just booking it down the hallway and I dodged

really quick and I realized, oh, it's Anson mountain, his handler.

I think they were on the way to the, Strange new worlds panel.

but I was not paying attention, so I mostly, almost got run over.

Yeah.

What about you?

Well, the first like Thursday or Wednesday night or something, it was, uh,

we ran into Terry Farrell outside of an

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was completely starstruck.

I was just like, uh, I didn't, I just couldn't form words.

but she was super nice.

everyone was super nice.

Um, did I tell you about Denise Crosby?

Almost making me cry.

No.

Tell me about

so we, had a nice dinner at a steak and did he, his Crosby was

at the bar with I'm guessing her handler or a friend or something.

It was just like drinking and shooting the shit.

Right.

And so it's like, you know, Get your space, you have fun.

Like I've always been of the mind.

Like if you run into a celebrity or something, Um, and this has happened to

me before and like my childhood, this is the, like the example my dad said,

I remember I was like, 15 or 16, and we were at a bace place for my birthday.

And at the table sat one of the Detroit lions.

Hm.

It was like him, his wife, and then like me having my birthday.

There with them.

you know, and my dad was always just like, you'd just treat them.

They're just a person, you know, everyone's a person

just treat them like people.

And don't ignore don't acknowledge anything.

Don't ask them for their autograph or something, you know?

And my dad was just like, at the end of dinner, shook, his hand

was like, good luck this season.

Oh,

know, like, and that's it.

Just like an acknowledgement.

And so I've always been of the mind.

That's what you do, right.

Like you just let them be a person they're existing.

They don't owe you anything by being at this convention.

Yeah, sure.

And the amount, every actor I ran into just put out Denise Crosby

saw a little girl in a uniform, sitting at the table next to Beth,

and I like a table over from us.

And she waved.

Denise Crosby came over and spent 10 minutes telling this

little girl to live her dreams.

She could do anything she wanted in her Talk to her about her

favorite star Trek was all like, who's your favorite character?

And she's like Janeway.

And she's like, oh, I love.

You know, I love Catherine and all this stuff and just goes on, you

know, it's like, okay, it's such a great person to, you know, and all

this stuff and just like reinforced everything and was just the most.

Wholesome thing.

I was almost brought to tears.

Have I at, at like my fancy, like I'm literally like eating a nice steak

and drinking, widen, almost crying.

Well, this is going

That's adorable.

Is so adorable.

At one point, I held an elevator.

And struck loft and jumped

And, and once he's just like go into his room, right?

Like we're not going up to anywhere where there stuff we're going

to the, where you stay area.

And he was just so nice.

He was just like, there was someone in Cura, cosplay, and he's like

major good to see you and stuff.

And like just did the whole thing and was super nice to everyone.

And no one had even.

Said anything to him.

You know, and he just approached all of us and was super congenial

and just super great to be around.

Yeah, he seems like a nice dude.

Yeah, he's

On the last day, We were hanging out at the Bally's bar and we were trying

to figure out what we were going to do.

This was a greatest gen group.

And then we realized that like Tim Russ had just taken a seat over at the bar.

And there were a couple of people we'd kind of talked to earlier

that day and we were like, Hey.

Can we sit with you

Yeah.

Uh, so we were like sitting.

You know, six feet from Tim Russ, but we were not in the same group.

Like we were talking in our own group and we

were trying not really hard, not to be But just wanted to dislike, sit in the vibes.

Of Tim Russ.

And he was talking to the Roddenberry's, like the Roddenberry's the,

um, The band.

were there.

And they re they like pulled out one of their guitars and he was

sitting there playing their guitar.

And

they were just like jamming together at the Belize bar.

Yeah, I stayed on the same floor as them.

I ran into them all weekend.

Oh, Nice.

Roddenberry's and then also

a dominant Keating was on our floor, saw him once coming out.

And then, um, max Grodan check room was two or three down from mine.

So I like saw him with his granddaughter and stuff.

Yeah, it was super adorable.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, that's, that's a ton of stories from star Trek, Las Vegas.

I guess we've made our confessions.

On star Trek, Las Vegas.

Uh, so we can get into season two episode, 18 confessions and limitations.

Very nice.

Very nice.

I have a little bit before this episode.

cause this.

Nothing against Ben.

You did a great job, but didn't have quite my level of research.

I like in an episode.

So,

tried, man.

I

did

you know, you did good.

I'm just, I'm just throwing a little shade.

I'm just, I'm just being a Dick.

Don't worry about it.

Um, no.

Uh, there actually was a bunch of stuff about this episode online.

About Scientology.

Ah, wait, why?

This episode has nothing to do with Scientology and JMS was like,

I find it a board just like anytime anyone brought it up, you just like,

why do you keep bringing this Well, he kept, they kept getting brought up

because the mark Habs are apparently the species of alien in Dianetics,

which is the foundation of Scientology.

No

way.

He had no idea.

Yeah, I

didn't

he's just like if I had known, I would never have

used it in the first place.

Yeah.

this wasn't me and a bunch of people, I guess, saw this world like, oh,

he's saying all the Scientologists are going to die and it's just like, whoa.

No, I'm not, I would never make an episode about Scientology because

that might lend it credibility.

Yeah, right.

it was his stance.

The entire time was just all like, no, I would never entertain the idea

of even mentioning Scientologists.

They're terrible.

So.

Okay.

so if you cut were re listening to this or you watched it and you thought it

had something to do a Scientology because they're familiar with the Marquette

from that it is a quid incidence.

This is not a attack on Scientology.

Even the JMS has comments definitely were.

Um, that was not the intention of the episode.

He can do that without an episode, you can

Yeah, he doesn't, he would not spend an hour of TV

taking down Scientologists.

He'll make four posts in 1994 and we'll read them on a podcast 20 years later.

30

That's a good use of his time.

For sure.

Yeah.

So we start this episode and, we're in CNC.

There's a mark Hab transport ships.

That's 10 hours overdue and Ivana was worried about them.

Yep.

She had shared in decide to send a stir-fry squadron.

And they're going to send Zeta squadron out there.

it comes up when they're assigning Zeta squadron to this, that

Lieutenant kefir has been off.

Doing some off-duty flying time

and

some reconnaissance.

Yeah, he's out looking for the thing he saw in hyperspace is the.

Implication.

Yeah.

And Sheridan immediately knows.

Yeah.

after that

last episode.

AF after last episode, after seeing the shadows with Mr.

Borden, he's just like, We can not provoke this, bear before we're ready to fight it.

You need to knock this shit off immediately.

And he doesn't say it directly like that, but he does just like.

Immediately and unilaterally just put a stop to it.

It's all like, no, that's done.

No questions asked and we're not entertaining this Dawn.

Yeah.

So we go to some mark Hab quarters and Dr.

Franklin is looking at a dead mark Hab.

there's a mark Hab doctor there.

Lazarin is his And he's saying that this death is natural causes, but, uh,

there's been a, quite a few natural causes deaths among the Mar cab lately.

And Dr.

Franklin wants to check it out a little

Did you clock the actor, Andre, all the loaf.

You know, I didn't clock this actor.

I cocked a different one later.

Tell me about

This is Jim Norton.

We've seen him before.

He's, uh, own beds.

Wellington, the judge from

Oh, yes, yes, yes, no.

We did clock this one.

It was later in the episode when, when we were like, we've heard this voice before

we had.

it's ombuds, Wellington.

Yeah, this is his second of three characters that he will play.

In the series.

Oh, really?

So we're going to get a third.

He gets a third.

It's later.

And I won't spoil it.

The character name in itself is a spoiler.

Okay.

Maybe I'll recognize that one.

We'll see.

You will recognize the name.

I promise.

Well, I will.

I recognize him as the actor.

That's the question.

I had no idea.

It was the same guy last time when I watched this, but I also was

not paying as close attention.

Last time I watched Babylon But yeah.

So Franklin is a little bit worried about all these deaths by natural causes.

It is statistically improbable for this many.

of any species to die from natural causes that quickly

based off their, uh, population

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we get a dramatic candle blowing out to theme.

I saw this candle thing.

And I was like, yeah, I've seen these in the nineties.

I've seen these at.

At weddings,

you know,

The most candles I've ever seen in one place.

I have family that is Greek Orthodox.

Oh,

I'm very proud candle people.

Uh, very proud candle people.

Over the course of the four hour something ceremony I sat through.

Uh,

Yup.

Lots of candles to look

We cut back on a van over briefing the pilots and support

crew on the mark Hab ship.

who gives key for the news of no more trips out, which he's not happy about.

Yeah, he doesn't take it.

Great.

No.

Yes, she has to invoke chain of command a little bit.

I think.

yeah, he's all like, there's something out there.

She goes something out there.

There's something in here.

Me giving you a direct order.

Hall.

Such a good line.

Yeah.

I love her.

Yeah, and they head off to look for the ship.

We also get, ambassador Dolan has invited Sheridan over for dinner.

and this whole scene is just, uh, a nice light.

Good laugh compared to the rest of the episode.

Yeah, it's the comedic reef.

We needed 45 minutes into this episode.

Not five.

Yeah.

Yup.

So when you're worked for the, this dinner for two days,

No sleep.

Uh, he didn't sleep.

and water only.

You

assume that's a ruin his palette.

Right.

I can't make any mistakes where you have to start over.

And Sheridan's had a long day.

He'd love to dig into this.

Hasn't eaten lunch, you know, skipped lunch to work.

And, uh, no, we've got to meditate first.

You get one bite and then you get to meditate and then you can have

another bite and then you get to meditate.

Yeah, so much ritual and meditation and involved in

having a.

Having a friend over to dinner.

Poor linear.

Also did you see the little like shrimp forks?

They were eating everything with.

Zeda squad finds the freighter and nobody is left alive all 203.

Mark Hab are dead.

So they tow it back to investigate.

Like big dummies, they throw it in the docking bay.

Yeah.

Leave it in space.

Like obviously it ends up not mattering.

Because the infection was already on the station.

As we find out in about five minutes.

But.

Man, how stupid is this move?

Just like, oh, something killed everything inside.

So we're going to dock it with the station.

after living for three years.

In a global pandemic.

Did you just

find yourself going.

That's wrong.

That's wrong.

That's wrong.

That's wrong at this episode?

Like every two minutes.

There is a line towards the end of this episode from

doctorate Lazarus or Lazarin.

that is like, when confronted with a pandemic society will choose

the worst option every time.

And it's just all like, oh, Oh, oh, Oh,

Oh,

Yeah.

There was a severe lack of like, Personal protective equipment

throughout this whole episode.

Just like.

Lots of no masks would, we should probably be wearing masks

Uh, the lack of mass.

It's like, we think it's airborne, but we're not sure.

Put a fucking mask on, oh my God.

I'm about to go grab one and put it on.

Oh, this

watching.

Watching this as stressing me out.

Uh,

Yeah.

Sheridan fell asleep at dinner.

Uh, luckily it was after the ceremony had finished.

So linear didn't have to start over again.

Uh, and he gets called down to space TSA where the mark Hab doctor is

preventing anyone from boarding since their group hasn't been called yet.

sit down, sir.

Your past says main cabin three, not diamond club.

No.

Franklin shows up and calls bullshit.

And it's just like, no, no, whatever happened there is what's

happening on the station already.

Yeah.

is it?

How terminal is it?

And then we get a hundred percent terminal hundred percent contagious.

Yeah.

Anyone who touches it dies.

It's just like, oh,

Cool.

Um, we get some backstory.

Uh, they don't like to talk about it, because it's

considered divine retribution.

Slash up punishment for sinning.

Now.

Got to talk a little bit more about JMS his notes here.

Okay.

So aids is brought up once in a list of diseases by Dr.

Franklin.

This is 1994.

The aids epidemic is, has destroyed at this point, the

gay community in the United

Yeah, it seems like this episode is headed that direction, right?

Like this is an aids allegory.

A hundred percent.

It is not explicitly in aids, allegory.

Uh, JMS has a note here, which I'm just going to read word for word.

because I think it's worth.

His, his feelings about this directly.

our worth stating.

Sure go for it.

I will not defend the notion that the episode stated that all

Americans felt that aids was a penalty from God, because I never said that.

Ever in any manner, shape, or form.

The problem is that some people are so caught up in the current situation that

they lose all sense of perspective.

Fact is most people did think the black death was punishment from God or the

work of the devil is Franklin says the mark Habs had a similar belief.

Nowhere was that applied in dialogue to humans or to the aid situations.

The whole point of the episode is not political.

It says that if you make a disease political on either

side, you're going to die.

You have to set all that crap aside and just deal with the problem.

The only side this episode took was an advocating compassion for those afflicted.

That said.

Uh, it might've been a little fresh to make an aids episode.

At that point.

he, might've not felt, felt he could've gotten away with making

an aids episode at that point.

that the, uh, The station notes would've come back and been damning.

which actually that period of Babylon five is about to end.

The station sent back tons of notes for seasons one and two on every script.

Starting in season three.

They stopped sending any notes.

So about halfway through season three, JMS realizes he's off the hook and starts

doing episodes that he wants to do.

Much more so than episodes.

He felt he could get away And a lot of these use notes are very much of the time.

The episode airs, which is important for context.

There's no way this isn't an aids episode.

Right, right.

Like, it's very easy to say, oh, it was just about the black death, because

there's enough overlap in the story.

You're trying to tell.

And the situation there.

and he is a hundred percent correct.

You can't make diseases political because.

Diseases don't have political ideologies.

They just kill people.

Yeah, you were reading, so you probably didn't see my face when you got

to that part, but I was making a face.

Yeah, I.

You know, the face.

I know the faith.

Yeah.

That's it's I mean, he's right.

and the episode also reaffirms that it's a lesson we never learned.

Which also is right.

Yeah, there's a lot to.

to.

chew on in this episode.

Yeah.

Uh, when you had messaged me and it was all like, we watched the

episode with Owen and I think that.

Might have been a mistake.

I was just like what's episode.

Is it shit?

You know, like, was it real spooky?

I thought it was like a scary one.

And then I watch it.

I'm just like, oh,

Oh, yeah, it's a scary

Well, yes, it is.

Especially as a child, I'm sure.

Seeing both of your parents die.

Yeah.

The context for him too, is that, you know, he was in kindergarten.

When he got sent home for spring break, and then didn't go back

to school for over a year.

Like.

So, you know, I was like, oh Jesus, there's some, some trauma here.

We're going to have to process together.

I mean, we were going to spend.

His whole childhood processing this, right?

Like.

I probably didn't need to drag this episode into it, but here we are.

Oops.

Uh, parenting tips by

Laura.

we move on a little bit here.

Dr.

Franklin asked Dr.

Lazarin if it's contagious to other species.

And he realizes They don't know, he never checked no one ever checked.

If it was possible to spread to any other species.

Well, they were too busy denying it existed.

Like this is the sinners plague.

And we're all good people here.

So how would we know if it got to another species?

Yep.

Deland finds a child.

As they find their dead father.

Yikes.

Yeah.

Um,

We get a conference room where we learn of the diseases, incubation period.

Which can be up to 10 days before symptoms or detection.

Of what you are contagious.

Yeah.

Oh, that sounds familiar.

Uh, We find the disease makes it hard to breathe until you can't.

Oh,

And also sounds a little familiar.

Uh, you get, you starts with a sore

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's the first symptom.

Uh, they decide to throw the whole station in quarantine and send everyone

to the privacy of their quarters.

Oh, Uh, but some of the people don't listen and gathered

a large group in space TSA.

The mark habit ambassador tells Sheraton to get fucked that this is some foreigner

disease or your sins washing onto us.

And we're going to.

guy?

Yes, this guy is.

The drowsy ambassador also.

Yeah, he's he's purple or green.

One of the two.

Okay.

Um, We're going to get together and pray this disease away.

Yeah.

All to all of us In our

Yeah.

Get everyone together in one place so we can pray this

I can hear you stress,

uh,

I was stressed, clicking my band.

Sorry.

I don't blame you.

It's a habit from grade school that I've never dropped.

Um, Ivanova is worried about the thousand or so missing mark Hab,

who might be targets for violence.

Dylan requests to be allowed into the quarantine zone.

Uh, to help ease the suffering and show compassion.

Yeah.

Uh, Sheridan allows it and it's just like, uh,

just in case goodbye forever.

Uh, that was heavy.

That

was real heavy.

If I.

see you again, please call me by my first name.

Right.

Yeah.

Uh, and it's like, she almost turned and said, okay, John, and then

she's all like, I'll save it for later.

Garibaldi saves a mark Hab, uh, from getting beaten up by some

racists proven once again, that a broken clock is right twice a day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He even takes the guy's hand and carries him.

Off to med lab, presumably.

Well, I mean, you know, you could also say, I guess a Jerry

Doyle is the wrong kind of right.

Eh,

political jokes.

hanging fruit.

I'll take

it.

Farris back,

Yeah, that's the humor you were all missing.

Franklin stems and catches a

little bit of shit for it.

No.

Just a gentle reminder.

Hey, uh, you shouldn't.

You've had three that's a ton dude.

Knock it off.

Yeah, don't go so hard on the meth.

I got to cure your diseases.

got time to sleep.

and this is where he mentioned black death aids and Chalmers syndrome.

Which I Googled in.

Isn't a future disease.

That's not a thing that exists currently.

Yeah, I figured they are.

There's always, you know, a couple of historical examples and then

future disease in these lists, right?

Yeah, I did a little bit of Googling and I found a really,

really sad story about a kid with a chronic illness whose name was trauma.

And he had another syndrome that was giving him

five years to live.

And.

Don't Google it unless you want to cry is all I'm going to say

don't Google Tomer syndrome.

Noted.

he dives in on black death, uh, for the reinforcing

JMS has notes from earlier.

the discussion leads to the aforementioned, how society

treats to choose is the worst option for dealing with diseases.

Hm.

And then we find that Dr.

Lazarus was sick the whole time.

Dr.

Franklin gets his chance to examine someone in the early stages and

learn how the disease works.

At the cost

of his

friend dying.

Yeah, that does seem like an important.

Like thing that should have been happening, you know?

All along

Yeah.

Well, I mean, he's inspected a number of the bodies.

So he knows he's he's got it at this point.

He has to be aware.

Yeah.

in fact, I think that's why he reacts how he does when we get

the little bit earlier on about it.

Infecting other species.

Because he knows he's in the room with Dr.

Franklin, right.

Then like, did I just get one of my friends sick?

Am I a terrible person?

Should I have worn a fucking mask?

The answer is yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

even when they're Working on.

Uh, patients, there's not enough personal protective equipment at

all.

In this episode or the show in general, I think, but especially the episode.

Yeah.

So in the isolation zone.

We cut over there and, Dylan and linear have been trying to counsel

and, and, you know, just minister.

To the, uh, all the people there.

and the little girl who Dylan ran into who saw her father

dead in the hallway, basically.

has also lost her mother now.

Oh,

Uh,

since you can't find.

Right.

Sorry.

She she is.

She cannot find her mother.

She has not lost her mother.

Yeah.

Uh, but.

that episode.

This episode.

Uh, Dylan S linear to help find.

Her mother.

She

manages.

Yeah.

It's like, what's, what's her name?

Mommy.

It's like, oh shit.

Okay.

Yeah, he's just got to go through 4,000 mark abs to

find mommy it's it's no big

Yeah,

Yeah.

But this whole thing with the Lennon linear for me in this episode is so.

Foundational for their characters.

Like.

It's so important and every scene.

Is very tender and sweet.

And just.

I don't, especially when she's with the child.

Yeah.

really, really very powerful.

Uh, we go back to MetaLab.

we're Franklin gets told he needs to go take the Kobayashi Maru.

Yeah.

And we find out that the disease did spread to that pocket.

Murrah.

And Aaron brought up an excellent point here.

I mean, the episode does answer it for us that, you know,

the park Mariah green cells

and yellow cells or whatever, these things are similar in some way.

And that's how the disease made the jump, but Aaron's going aren't they?

The carry in eaters.

Yes.

Yes.

Did this pock Murrah probably eat a dead mark Hab.

That was my assumption.

it's a non-zero chance, right?

I would say, given that the issue we've had with them

a couple of times where they're like, well, we can't find the body.

It's like, well, now we've got to pump all the pocket bras, stomachs.

Yeah, cause we don't hear about other POC Murrah getting sick.

Really?

You would think that that would come up in the episode if it was.

That they got it from the airborne nature.

There's not a lot of them.

And they pro.

They tend to be solitary.

I think.

I think

Yeah.

about them.

So.

we get a little bit about, Franklin, uh, hitchhiking in his youth here as well.

is fun.

Uh, where

he first met this mark Hab doctor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

they met 20 some years ago.

How is he old enough to have met?

Somebody 20 something years ago.

Well, this

wild.

like

guess he's in his forties maybe.

see.

looks so young to be.

He might be, he might be easily 30.

He's it might've been like 10 years ago.

Oh, yeah.

Especially after med school, it's probably closer to 10.

Yeah.

Because he was doing that during the earth.

The war.

Yes.

when he was hitchhiking around.

Cause that's when we see that later in, uh, The one of the made for TV movies.

Him hitchhiking around.

I don't think we see them go to mark Hab specifically, but that's

like what he's doing during the war.

And I don't remember if I've seen that movie, so we'll have to get

Yeah.

Anyways, the disease did spread to the pocket Murrah.

But this will give them some insight on how the disease works.

So they can stop it now.

Like they're like, okay, well it's gotta be something that these two

species have in common that it's infecting because every human on

the station isn't dead right now.

Right.

We, uh, cut back over to Dylan in the quarantine zone.

Uh, Where she tells a story about finding her faith.

And her initial calling to the religious cast.

I was always of the impression that cast was hereditary.

For the main party.

But it might not be.

I, I don't think I was under that impression, I don't know why I wasn't.

I might just be assuming, because that is typical forecast

systems

in human history.

so that might be why.

I should've researched that.

Well, that's, I think there will be other episodes where it'll come up.

Yeah.

I think you could do that research.

There are, there's going to be more about the men Bari.

Just a hunch.

Um, Dr.

Lazarin, uh, passes But Franklin cracks the disease.

He makes a big batch of vaccines.

Runs down to the quarantine zone to start administering them.

With Sheridan and Ivanova like, he's not even got a medical team with him.

They're just like and him are carrying.

It's time.

This has to happen.

Now they're sleeping for the first time in three days.

Like, we're going to go inoculate these people.

Yeah.

And they opened the door.

It's all of the Marc Habur dead.

Yeah.

Every last one.

And we just see DLN and linear.

Slowly come out of the back of the quarantine zone and towards the door.

And.

This was my moment of HD remaster detail that I had never seen

on a previous, watching.

Linear is crying.

He has tears down the side of his face.

He's clearly been openly weeping.

And when obviously when he comes to the station, you know, the crew and

he's all like, he's very put together.

He's his normal self.

But, I Devore noticed that before, whether it was because it was standard

Def or I wasn't paying enough attention.

Uh, but I always kind of thought linear was kind of a cold asshole at this moment.

Yeah.

If you can't see the tears, I could see the reading of like,

Yeah.

Yeah, it was just all like, oh, they're all just dead.

You know, and it's just like, it's really cold, man.

Like I was expecting more from you based off all of your interactions with

other characters and how you've always been and seeing the tears just like,

oh, of course he was crying and he just put himself together Show respect.

So the CA captain.

Like.

Okay.

He was completely horrified.

And Dylan breaks down in tears in John's

Yeah.

And she's saying.

His name.

And instead of captain are shared, and she's just saying John,

John, John, and it's just so.

Emotional.

And I cried.

I cried with them.

Um, cause you know, it's, it's kinda, you have a real hint that it's coming,

especially when we see the little girl like stumble after they find her mother.

You like, you know that these people aren't going to make it out.

And it's not just them.

They have a cure.

But it's too late.

Every mark Hab is dead.

There might be some isolated colony somewhere that the

disease managed to not spread to.

But they wiped themselves out in a matter of weeks.

Just the species, the civilization.

Is gone.

the news reports on this racist bartender attempts, humor, it fails.

Oh, my God.

Yes, he's a bad man.

And the conspiracy theories start immediately.

I heard it was the VAR lawns.

Nothing changes.

Ha.

episode.

Before you even asked me fuck this episode.

I didn't.

Once again, did not write down a rating.

Because this goes on the list of episodes that are good at making me feel bad.

Yeah, I had this feeling earlier today when I was thinking about.

Our conversation today.

I was like, this is going to be one of those that Joe

fair says, fuck this episode.

Isn't it.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

I mean, the fact that I'm literally still got a little bit of a coffin

and recovering from COVID just, Fine.

You know, I just went and threw a round of disc golf of I've got any

trouble breathing or anything, but I've got a little bit of a cough still.

But.

You know, that is heavy knowing that the last two years, If I had

watched this as intently in 2019.

I might go, oh man, that's a really good warning tale.

I bet you, we could learn something from this episode.

And that would have been fucking wrong because we clearly can't

learn anything as a society.

Yeah.

What's so.

Um, I'm going to hold off on rating for a moment.

Um, but

when we're watching this episode, It just from absorbing, from osmosis in

the news and the atmosphere in the last three years, when they start

describing the mechanics of the virus.

part of me was like, Hmm.

It just feels really improbable.

Like you have to do a little bit ahead.

Cannoning.

To accept the virus now.

In the nineties, I wouldn't have had to do that because I

didn't know shit about viruses.

And I've just absorbed just enough.

From the To know that like a hundred percent lethality.

that doesn't spread very well.

Typically.

Yeah, because

people die too quickly.

Which is actually something in JMS is notes.

because someone had said something like diseases like this don't exist.

He's like, actually I talked to someone at the CDC and they do.

the problem with diseases like this when they develop.

Is, they tend to develop.

Outside of.

modern medicine, right?

Uh, huh.

They out in the wild somewhere.

Um, and they would just will wipe out an entire village

before it has time to spread.

Right,

And we've seen this historically speaking time and time again.

So I asked a friend of mine who's at.

At other greatest Jen community member, who happens to be a virologist.

About this.

Cause I was like, And start passing a little stiff test, like.

I obviously don't have a degree in that sort of thing, but I

was like, eh, What do you think?

because this person actually watches Babylon five as well.

Yay.

He S he said, you know, I feel like it's plausible.

But the a hundred percent lethality within 24 hours.

Is really unlikely unless there's another carrier species, like, you know, um,

Rats.

Ms.

Mosquitoes carry the west.

Nile rats can carry the black You know, I, I, had Canon around that a little bit.

Like maybe this is a shadow disease.

Like.

I mean, I think that JMS certainly wants to like lead us there with that

ideas, this, uh, a weapon from somebody.

Yeah.

But that would make it.

Pretty difficult to transmit.

everybody freaking out about it being airborne.

Well, Babylon five air should be filtered with something.

It should be going through UV or ozone or,

or bleach or something.

When it's recycled.

So yeah.

You know, um, But.

he did say that.

This particular episode, you know, play episode.

Is more plausible than anything similar they've ever done on star Trek.

It passes his hurdles as an actual professional in the

study of viruses, better than any star Trek.

Cool.

Similar episode.

I guess a lot of the star Trek ones, they always hop species.

Which would be very unlikely.

Right, right.

It's not easy for a disease to hop species necessarily.

So.

the thing that I really think that this episode absolutely nails is everything.

Social.

The, the reactions of people around the, uh, you know, we, we want to believe.

Or we did want to believe that there wouldn't be such extremist religious.

Like, no, it couldn't possibly be, but.

I think we've all seen.

That there will always be those types out there

that.

believe that righteousness will somehow save them from disease.

I mean, it's happening again, literally right now with monkeypox.

Right.

Monkeypox is mostly impacting the gay community in America.

Specifically gay men.

sound familiar.

and even though we have, literally, we have a vaccine, we started with a vaccine.

We've had a vaccine for years for monkeypox and we have

thousands of it in storage.

We just aren't prioritizing its distribution.

or it's availability, to the point of.

Negligence like it is on purpose.

Uh, and I don't even mean that in a conspiracy theory way, we're

just not taking it seriously.

To the point where, uh, people should be held responsible.

And it's, it's a time and time again, thing.

And that's.

You know, the most heartbreaking part of this episode.

Is that the social responses are so accurate.

Yeah.

me.

Like,

you know, the.

Gonna just be fuck this episode.

Not against that.

You.

You know what.

Hm.

Yeah, I'll pitch it.

I'll pitch it to the editor.

See how he feels.

Make sure it passes the sniff test.

It gets passed to the network without notes.

Yeah.

I mean, if I have to throw a rating on this, cause you know me, I

do try to throw a rating on it.

I give this one a four, just because of how effective it is.

Yeah.

It's it's, like I said, it's very good at making me feel bad.

That is its job and it did its job very well.

But fuck this episode.

Yeah.

I think that's.

Very accurate and very.

Uh, warranted.

So, I feel you feel okay.

Yeah, I feel fine.

Um, I'm okay.

Like both from the episode and recovering.

I'm fine.

Uh,

Yeah, Glad to have you back.

Who's not fine.

Are the Nard.

As we find out in our next episode, season two, episode

19, the long Twilight struggle.

Uh, final bloody battle determines the outcome of the Naarden Centauri conflict.

And signals and even greater threat to all civilization.

Woof.

I'm pretty sure the cover of my season two episode

Is from this next episode.

Oh,

I think it's that one.

I'm not going to say what's on there.

on the off chance I'm wrong and it's spoilers.

Cause it is spoilers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But.

It sure.

Looks

like.

I mean, we're running out of episodes that that shot could be from anyway.

So.

Yeah, we're coming up on the end of season two here pretty quick.

All right.

Well, This episode was a bummer.

But, Jeremy Siegel's great.

Jeremy Siegel is

He wrote our lovely theme music.

I don't know why I assumed I was going to meet him at star Trek, Las I had no idea.

I had nothing to base it on whatsoever.

Just like, oh, Jeremy SQL will be there.

Uh,

I wish he was.

Next time,

right.

Uh, If you're listening, Jeremy.

Next time I will buy you a $30 daiquiri

as a thank you for our lovely theme music, you can listen to more Ms music

at Jeremy Siegel, 40 two.bandcamp.com.

And thank you to angry deck time machine on Instagram

for our lovely podcast artwork.

And go ahead and join our community on discord.

Shoot us an email.

We'll do a mail bag in a couple of weeks.

Oh, you should start sending.

Sending us your season two thoughts.

We should start asking for those.

Cause we've got a season, two recap episode coming up in a month.

Or

Yeah.

It'll be number 50 episode number 50.

And yeah, it's, it'll be in October.

So get those thoughts in now,

Yeah, we'd love to discuss and read your emails, uh, about season

two and your thoughts on season two.

So please send those and then any other stuff you want to talk about?

That's not necessarily season two specific.

We will save those for our next mailbag segment.

You are, or you be5@gmail.com?

I don't remember if I said it, so I'm just going to get it in there really quick.

We'll see you next week,