Meet Laura Lawson, an authentic leader who takes her skills and creativity from her Hollywood job on the Ellen show and becomes the “chief architect of culture” for a mortgage company in Michigan hiring over 3,000 people in 2019.  Laura exemplifies the servant leadership model of leadership and practices it every-day at UWM.  Tune in to hear what this culture is all about and how they make it a reality at UWM.  Yes, there is GRAVITAS in Pontiac Michigan, a city once known for car production.

01:33 Detroit – the mortgage town ?

03:20 Laura’s story

05:33 The pivot

08:18 Our first meeting

09:28 Ascending to the C suite

12:16 Culture

14:30 Blame culture

15:25 Fun and friendship

16:45 Coming from automotive ?

19:44 On-boarding

21:18 Thumb pointer

22:47 Coaching

24:23 Technology

28:05 Your time

31:50 Dance party ?

35:42 What about the metrics ?

39:01 Advice to leaders going through cultural transformation

42:47 Does Mat Ishbia have GRAVITAS ?

45:40 Legacy

[Transcript]

00:04

Welcome to the Finding Gravitas podcast brought to you by Gravitas Detroit. Looking to be a more authentic leader. Finding Gravitas is the podcast for you. Gravitas is the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in. It's an irresistible force encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership. Join your podcast host Jan Griffiths that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, entrepreneur, leadership coach, keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry as she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for gravity.

Welcome to episode two of the Finding Gravitas podcast. In this episode, we'll be talking to Laura Lawson from United Wholesale Mortgage, the number one wholesale mortgage company in the country. I have to admit, I'm a little bit obsessed with the culture. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they gave away cadillacs and cruises at their holiday party. It has everything to do with the servant leadership model that sits at the very foundation of their culture. Let's learn more about this culture and how they make it a reality at United Wholesale Mortgage.

My guest today has been described as an innovative architect of culture. Quite a statement. She is a Chief People Officer. And whilst you might think that that's just a fancy title for somebody in charge of HR, you would be very wrong indeed. My guest is responsible for HR training, marketing, leadership development, amongst other things, and she is responsible for the culture of the company. Laura Lawson, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

It's an absolute pleasure. Laura, we sit here today in the Metro Detroit area, an area that is predominantly automotive. Yet we see Detroit becoming the mortgage city. How so why so much growth in the mortgage business in the Detroit area?

I think it's exciting. We have a lot of our competitors that are based in Michigan Metro Detroit, Quicken Loans being one, of course Flagstar and then with us. And I think it's just from I grew up in Michigan professional career in the Motor City, you know, and I think that it's kind of neat to see that this is another industry forming and taking shape and being uber successful here, which is mortgages. And I think it's fascinating, too, with a lot of the giants being based in Metro Detroit, when highest volume of mortgages you see are on the West Coast, you know, so that is a growth challenge for us. And so we're 100% based here in Michigan, but I think it's pretty phenomenal and exciting that we can kind of challenge each other all these Metro Detroit based companies doing the same thing.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Great. It's, it's, it's fascinating to see the growth happening. But let's get back to your story. Tell us your story.

Oh, where do we begin? So I am born and raised Michigan, and I'm the youngest of three girls and growing up. And I think this kind of shaped my creativity that they wouldn't play or hang out with me. So I was involved in unique imagination, and that has carried to this day, I am a big Disney fan. I am somebody that believes that if you can dream it, you can do it. And there's no parameters in what I dream up and do. And it's fascinating, I think, in the course of my career, and where I am today to be in a space of mortgages. That's typically conservative, but we're anything but but professionally from going becoming a student at Michigan State University. I'm an advertising major. And I had my internships as one would do thinking success in Detroit as defined by automotive. I had internships with Chrysler. I ended up working at Chrysler post college and six months and realized this is not what I meant to do. This is not my impact. And I had a sister living out in Los Angeles, and I just admired she was working in the music industry, living the dream and like, why can't I live that dream as well? So I moved out, ended up starting at 20 Century Fox, the just the legendary studio lot. I mean, from having Star Wars tape down this movie sets to the old westerns to the soundstage for The Simpsons, in knowing that I could have a piece in that and a role in that. So I ended up working for Fox developing reality shows for two and a half years and really exercising that unique creativity. And then I was working with an executive producer who had an off For to move to Warner Brothers for their stunning two new talk shows. When was the Sharon Osbourne show, and one was Ellen DeGeneres. And so luckily to this day is Joyce would have it. We went with Ellen. And so I was the first employee at the Ellen DeGeneres Show, hiring a staff. And now, so many years later, the fact that that show is number one hit show on television me after me to have been the first employee is pretty special. Spent five years at that show, exercising again, the unique creativity, and that was 100%. Everything was ideas to the point that you were so drained of ideas sharing, and that became a challenge, but I loved it so much. I would not have left the show, but life happens. My mom was suffering from cancer here in Michigan. In during a hiatus, I came home to be with her and I lost her 12 days after coming home. And life changed. I started questioning what am I working towards? What am I working for? Family being just to the utmost importance, I was working to work, and really for no other specific objective. And though I had the dream job that I think anybody would want to have, I let that go in order to move back to my roots and be home closer to my family. So it was a big, pivotal moment in my life to leave that behind. And thinking that that was my I just left my job, that job, the cool job that I'm going to have, and everything after that is not going to a mountain to it. Move back home to Michigan. And as I started interviewing, I was introduced to Madison PA, who is the CEO of this amazing company, and his vision of taking United Wholesale mortgage and putting it on the map was such a broad, unique vision. And I knew nothing about this industry. But I thought you know what I'm taking a live chance I'm taking, you know, this complete pivot outside of everything I know. And this is a person that wants to believe in me thinking that I can make a difference in that vision. Here we are eight years later. So I started the marketing team here, it didn't exist. And I really think that there's a lot of excitement in crafting a roll that no one's done before you. And then I just started taking on challenges where some say, wearing many hats is maybe a negative just do what you're paid for. That's not my philosophy. I started getting my hands and realizing nobody was booking travel for team members, I started seeing that we didn't have a defined recruiter in order to keep you building the success of the company. I just started contributing ideas into a space that was not my wheelhouse at the company, I became more curious about what we're doing questioning the why behind things participating at a higher level. And couple years after that, Matt called me while I'm on maternity leave, I wasn't even working in the office saying I've got this unique idea. I want all these teams to report to you. And let's come up with a title for it. And that became Chief People Officer, it's really the way we take care of our people with our clients.

That really is an excellent example of looking at somebody's skill set and ability for the right role. Right? I mean, certainly you do not have the typical background of a leader of an HR function, nowhere near close. No. So that speaks volumes for his leadership and the culture of the company. And we're here today, obviously, to talk about authentic leadership. And one of the reasons that I very much wanted you on the podcast was my first interaction with you. So we met several weeks ago at a co op magazine conference. And you were a speaker, but actually you weren't you were a speaker with your colleague, somebody who I think worked for you somewhere. Okay. And you clearly had the higher level position, but you physically stood behind her. And you let her take the lead and take the spotlight, you were there to support her and you came in at certain points. The level the excitement and the energy that you both had, but she had was off the charts. But it was it was a visual example. And it was a clear example of servant leadership leadership for behind from behind and and it takes somebody who's very comfortable in their own skin to do that. And that was my first impression of you. And I thought, Okay, this is clearly an authentic leader. So could you just explain a little bit more about what your leadership style is?

Thank you. That's all fair one. So kind of because in everything I do, nothing's calculated. It's just genuine from the heart. And I think that came from when my title became of chief people officer and I received those extra letters. I was now an EVP at the company. I took the moment of almost a little scary what's expected of me now do I have to talk fancier? Do I have to dress different? Am I supposed to fall in line with the way that a C suite level leaders supposed to be? I don't know what that is. That's not me. And I'm glad that I had that defining moment of let's just be me, because that got me here. And everything I've done sense in this role, I am very genuine approach. It's people first. If I don't understand people, I can't serve them. So I even with sure I have teams that report through me, I've my tree structure here I've over 300 team members, multiple leader levels, even within that I do everybody is a leader in their role. I serve them. I don't have reports that partners. So I think it's just a different stance, and it's a different appreciation. Even here, the fiscal building, we have 450 leaders at this company. They're only 20 in offices, and I'm one of those plenty. I don't like being in an office that shouldn't really don't seeing people stands who have never come into my office before and how nervous they are. And I had that interaction today and somebody with their arms crossed, and it's like, I'm just like you. I'm here to serve you come in, start getting people talking about their family, what they work for, to kind of bring the guard down and I start recognize again, I'm like, Ah, Dorinda. That's right, I have an office. I'm not, I'm i by definition, and title not like everybody else, but I am. So I kind of I'm constantly recognizing that. And it's very, I think, hard for some to stay humble to that. And there's often times where I'll kind of even point at my office windows and say, See those other buildings like we're not like them. We don't even call HR here. We call it team member services, because we serve our people. It's, I think, a struggle as we grow and even craft our success, because I think you can be further removed from people in our former headquarters, the current one, we've only been in for a year and a half. But as we grow, we need more space, more square footage. There were moments I would have with team members in the elevators, and we had some people shuttle last shuttle in things I could hear from the back of the shuttle. And I was so much better at my job, because I could be invisible in those moments. That's harder and more of a challenge today. So the more that I can be among the team members, and the more that I kind of crave that to understand what they need, how I can better support them, what benefits where we can just be better as a company and better serve them, it becomes a bigger struggle, but I just think as long as I remain grounded, that I can't serve them if I'm not with them.

This talk about the culture here, you can feel it when you walk through the door, I felt it. We're sitting in a conference room with pickle wallpaper, which is rather unique and different. But there are six pillars to your culture. Could you tell us a little bit about those pillars? And perhaps, you know, how did you how did they evolve over time? Did you did you? Were they here at the beginning of the company? What's the process?

Of course, when I joined the company, eight years ago, we had a mission statement, as most companies do, you know, just some firm statement statement of what you believe in. And a lot of times you can remember that mission statement and serve for any company, you know, it's not a lot of time specific to really the heart and who you are. So we actually attended a conference where we listening to a speaker, the CEO and I, and she was talking about the pillars of our organization and we just looked at each other like a pillar that feels right riding by nature of what we do with mortgages, residential among the pillars that hold us up, like what are those? So we came back to our company that was 500 at that point, today, we're almost 5000 And we started asking our team members what is important to you why do you work here? Why do you love this so much? Like what you know, the from the loyalty to the new team member like what's special about us, that they developed our pillars our people developed our pillars. So I think the flaw could be a lot of times pushing that mission statement down pushing the pillars honor people, this is what you're going to believe in. No collectively asked as a community. This is what we believe in. So the first thing our people are our greatest asset, they're everything. Mortgage Company, a lot of the mortgage companies are competitors, we offer the same things. Nobody has our people, our unique 5000 people, even pillars, I love the most services, everyone's responsibility, when you start looking at service differently the way we treat each other. If we can't get that right, then we can't serve our clients and just once you change that mentality, and that even changed the way we started hiring people in my wheelhouse I have the facilities team. janitorial security would be outsourced by other companies are 100%. Our team members because they have more social interactions in a day that I'm going to have the manosphere CEO is going to have their internal because we only hire the most amazing people that aren't background on those roles. It could be background elsewhere. Another pillar being we're relationship driven, not transaction driven by nature of what we do. It's always called cultivating, having a sticky relationship with our clients and how we can better with that. Another that I even bring home because you know the really in your heart we talk to kids about it is being a thumb point or not a finger pointer we never place blame on others. So when you turn the thumb, point the thumb at yourself, how do you take responsibility and accountability? And that pillar came from Matt sp-a who played basketball for Michigan State University. He was on the national championship team. And Coach Izzo Tom Izzo uses be a thumb pointer and I think that's so special that he brought that as part of his background he Hear and it means so much for us. Another pillar is continuous improvement. I truly enjoy here as a leader, as a team member, the investment we make and continuous improvement. We're constantly focusing on education, how we get better. We're number one at what we do, but there's always increased market share. There's always ways that I can have more impact tomorrow than I have today. And how do we get there? How do we innovate the next great idea? So we're never stagnant in that and thinking, Okay, well, we're number one, but there's a target on your back, how can we get better. And then we have a blast, which is our sixth pillar, fun and friendship. Our friends are here. And I take that responsibility, highly for the fact that everyone we bring in here's our future, we have hired nearly 3000 people this year alone, 3000 people in a year, which is pretty much unheard of, even nationally, we don't compromise the way in which we hire those people, we hire the friendliest, most amazing, engaging team members, fun and friendship. So it's not just that your friends are here, eye contact interactions, highly engaged. But also when we had the chance to celebrate, we do it well, from our holiday parties. We had ludicrous perform. We've had Nelly we've had from boys to men. So that becomes a special sought out and it's coming up, but an annual thing that we get really excited about. And then we also do for our families, because it's not just our community effect. 1000 It's their children is their family. And we do a fare on site where we just had 1000 people this year in our parking lot, celebrate for affair. So all these things that are so special, an amazing twist when you align those as pillars. It's just an alignment of the expectations of working here as a team member. And I think that that is just such an amazing thing that when you get it right, it's kind of in the hearts and the minds of our people. It's mentioned so much so that you bring it home, you're talking to your friends and pillar speak. But I think it's what makes us really special.

So these, the pillars are great. And I'd like to dive deeper into into some of them in a moment. But a question that comes to mind is this. We're in the metro Detroit area, you have a lot of automotive people that have not worked in this type of culture, this type of culture is so foreign to them, that they wouldn't even know how to behave. Many automotive companies still operate under the positional power model, I am the boss, I will tell you what to do, they will be no fun in the office. You know, they are very traditional, very conservative. How do you handle that when you bring people in from other cultures, it must be very difficult for them. And if they don't conform to your culture, they don't exhibit the traits that you would like to see in your culture. How do you deal with that?

We are unique I think in our hiring practice where said that we the nearly 3000 This year alone, we don't hire majority of those people from having a mortgage background. So that could be automotive. It could be any industry here hospitality, everything, teachers, you name it, everyone 100% of team members that apply candidates, we talk to everybody within 24 hours as a PHONER. That's a cultural test. And then we bring them in because you have to see our environment. So it's not just you know, yours, or we write for you or you write for us by by bringing them in and showing them our environment. It's a culture shock to a lot of people, people haven't seen a work environment like this. And to end with this cut tip of square footage more one floor plate is 200,000 square feet, you can see the entire thing with no walls, no barriers, no cubicles. So we're very high touch collaboration company high communication, in this type of culture shock for the good people take a little bit to get used to. And we've seen people that withdraw from that candidate process because this is not what they're looking for. And then we bring people in some may still have challenges with that environment or our type of culture. But that's where the high touch leadership accessible leadership leaders ships on Thor, that's part of their position their jobs to be able to have those indicators like how are you doing, you know, or I see you have headphones on all day listening to music, how are you because then you can't get education from other people. So there's nice tactics that we can help people along, then the end of the day, if it doesn't work, and we wish we wish people well as well. But our retention is 91%. So it's working pretty well for a lot of people. And I think another charming piece of that growth is 65% are referral based. So I think when you have happy people that get our culture, they're finding and they're doing the recruiting for us to find their friends and family members that they feel will thrive in this community. And then they become that Ambassador touchpoint as well. So it's not just the leaders responsibility of Oh, hi engagement, are you digging the cards or are you highly involved, but they also have advocates here are the people that brought them on board. So when it's a community of friendship, and people are really out for each other and supporting each other, it really helps us onboard people in a cleaner easier way. And then we do even out of the gate on your first day you're spending a whole week in cultural training. So we have three days, homeless days, let the drink the Kool Aid Training. It's not that at all, but it's really the intro and how we do things. So they have two days of cultural elements and then three days of mortgage knowledge. So knowing that most of the people we hire are not from this industry. We're teaching you mortgage one On Owen mortgage basics, even if you're a veteran, 25 years in the business and mortgages and you join us, you're still going through mortgage basics training, because maybe you can benefit from your education other people in your classroom. So I think it's really nice alignment for onboarding.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think the onboarding process is critical. Doesn't matter what industry what business you're in, people have to understand the culture that they're going into and some of the basics of the business at hand. And from my experience, I remember I've worked mostly in automotive companies. But I did spend some time with Maytag, when the appliance industry. And they put me through a full one week onboarding process, and I thought it was the most phenomenal thing ever. And it was simple things like, where's the bathroom? How do you set up a conference call? Who do I call when I have this question? If you don't go through and spend time on these things, and the unwritten rules, that more of the culture piece of it, then people can spend an awful lot of time wasted time trying to figure these things out, and trying to understand how they fit in.

The roadmap for success. So right when you start, and then the resources are ongoing, and being able to give people the tools to identify that then to focus on how they're going to apply their specific skills into what we're doing as mortgage company, give them the relief of the other things, other things should be easy.

Let's just drill down into one of the pillars. This is the one that really resonated with me. And that's the thumbs up. Can you go a little deeper into that? And perhaps some examples of when it's working, when it's not working? What do you do?

I think being a thumb pointer has been really pivotal in how we operate, because it's so easy of a company of this size, and everything that we do, we try it over 600 IT team members proprietary technology, we do everything on site in house, it could be very easy to blame each other, it'd be very easy to say a system flaw or a failure or a client service, oops, we could see a closer blaming an account executive, it was their fault. We don't do that here. And I think that can be very destructive, very destructive in the way that you operate. So knowing that that's our philosophy. If we hear it, we catch it, if we see it, we coach out of it and we coach up, I think it's a very healthy way to train and in challenge your mindset of blame is not our stance. It's not a way that we progress. But when you take ownership and you some point, typically it's not gonna happen again, because you learn from the exchange in the experience, and by taking responsibility is really powerful. And even as leaders, when we take the responsibility, it's like, Oh, I understand that my piece in that equation, and how do we get better, and you can work through those things. It's just so much more supportive of an organization. And I think that it really is kind of kudos to the way that we do business. And we kind of see people like taking the full responsibility for their actions. It's just such a more mature to way way to do business.

I love the way you say, coach out and coach up, it's obviously something that's part of your vocabulary. It's it's new to me. And obviously, the term coaching isn't new to me, right? That's my business. But But this the idea that it just rolls off your tongue so easily coach out and coach up. And I think that goes right to the leadership mindset, right? You're not looking to, as you say, point the finger of blame at somebody and make them feel bad for something, you're looking to support them and coach them and help them deepen their understanding of a situation or their behavior so that they can, I hate to even say the word correct it so that they can see a different way a better way. And that goes right to mindset about leadership, which I think without that right mindset can create a very, very toxic environment. When you see these companies where it's all about blame. And it's all about, well, I want to throw if I throw this guy under the bus to make myself look better than I will succeed. And we've seen those models of leadership. And then they typically end up in failure, they typically end up companies in bankruptcy. And we know that companies are in a tremendous period of transformation right now. We know that technology is coming at us at an alarming rate. We don't have time for these games anymore. So let's let's go into that direction and talk a little bit about technology, how you embracing technology and what's happening in the way we work in the world around us right now.

We love technology. We're mortgage company by feel like we're a technology company. And even with that powerful squat of over 600 IT professionals the fact that we can just have an idea today and implement it tomorrow, will you just operate so fast and efficiently as private company with no red tape, we have ideas and we run. I think a great example of how we pull people together as our intranet platform. It's not like anything you've ever seen. Project management arm to it, but more so a social arm to it when it comes to engagement. So if a team member does something amazing today, I can give them a kudos what Just as a virtual shout out that then 5000 People are going to see one individual's Great job today. And then I'll a social, they can comment on that and they can like it. And they can tag other people in it and they can share success in how phenomenal that is. But we'll implement something like that. And then I'll think how can we want to even just that little piece of our intranet? Well by one upping Matt is a team member if in a month I received five kudos for great job in any team member kids, unlimited currency, anybody, any team members here, not just leader every can give to everybody, kudos all day, every day 1000s of kudos. But as a team member, once I accumulate five of them, I earn points. So part of our internet is something called Pay it forward. So I can spend my points in the Pay It Forward arm and elect that these points go to charitable contributions. So say for 50 points that I get for earning kudos, I can get pounds of food for forgotten harvest, and Gleaners the local pantries. I can purchase preemie diapers for March of Dimes, sports equipment for Special Olympics, when the Flint water crisis was happening, we contributed over 10,000 bottles of water from team members collecting that and pay it forward. So all of these amazing charitable efforts. Most companies, of course, you can write checks, of course, we still do. But when you put the giving in the hands of your team members to elect for charitable efforts go we do more good. And then it's what they are really, truly passionate about. So again, back to technology, like wow, I'm gonna use this vehicle to do more, what can I do for charity? What can I do to increase our team members awareness, even of the charitable efforts happening in this community. And then I started seeing team members, hey, there's an amazing animal adoption, charity, there's amazing. There's a, you know, veterans charity that I'm passionate about, we start adding those to the catalog of good. And so now this has become a giant in itself in the amount of awareness we have socially of our people that the army of good of 5000 people can do. And that just comes from one piece of technology and an intranet and thinking of like, I've got something with kudos, how can we went up it. And then it also creates this community of these 5000 aligned people that everyday because project management base have to dip in to be caught use only have to dip dip into the intranet. So not just the community value, they get the kudos, a great job that people are doing, but the company news that we can share on that platform, it's just really limitless of what you can do in this virtual amazing community platform. So you had tech solutions are phenomenal. And it's not just your, you know, hrs platform, and, you know, just kind of the mass that companies have. But in thinking a little differently. Let's acknowledge we have a growing population. And that's a struggle for us, because how do you still feel small? Well, that's a solution, our intranet.

And like the immediate response for the immediate recognition?

Oh, it's fantastic. Unlimited. Unlimited.

Yeah, so many companies, you know, it takes a long time to get recognition. May take weeks may even take months, you may not even hear about a good job that you did until your performance review. So that brings me to another question performance reviews. So how do you evaluate your employees?

we have a monthly touchpoint. With our team members, that's called your time. And this idea came from our team members, as most of our best ideas do. Your time is a time designated every month, and it falls between the first of the month and the 20th. And you sit with your leader on a scheduled basis for 25 minutes. Sure, every day you have touch points with your leader, but this is a one time monthly that you sit down with them and you set the agenda. So all the team members direct reports, I have their direct reports, we have this quality time where we sit down. And though I see my direct reports all the time, every day, we have multiple exchanges. This is the time that we can sit down and decompress. And I look at their agenda and let's go and they could be talking about their kids grades at school and how they're doing. They could be talking about what's happening upcoming for Thanksgiving. It's on multiple times personal things. But then we'll talk about their goals. You know, what are they doing? Are they achieving their goals? How are we doing? Is there any training deficiencies? If they want to talk about just from a project they want to implement? What do I think about it? So it's really unlimited topics. And it's nice, because I think our stance is different. It doesn't feel like every review, it's quality time that we get to sit down and of course, I can document things in the system. And it's about 25 minutes on average of their criteria of what they want to talk about their agenda. And then we spend about five to 10 minutes talking about just how do we do this month. And then on basis of our attributes of the company, I can pick two strengths and an opportunity, any combination of three in order to help coach them and it's well documentation but doesn't it doesn't, it's all it is is helpful and transparent ways to get better.

I had a feeling that you were going to say at the end of it if there is an opportunity for improvement that you were going to coach that person I'm getting it now Laura to figure out the culture, right? So rather than say, Hey, you missed your metric, you know you've missed your number. You should be xy and z and if you don't do that, or improve your performance within three months, you're Audio, I would guess that not that that conversation doesn't happen, it is just as you said, it is. Okay. And it's on a monthly basis. So you don't let a lot of time go by where somebody is really off track. And you start to see an indicator perhaps that the metric the number isn't quite where it needs to be. And you start to understand the reasons why. And often you write often those reasons are personal. It's it could be personal, it could be they're missing a skill set, they didn't quite understand what the leader want is, there's any number of reasons why somebody is off track, I don't believe that people come to work, wanting to fail, you know, everybody walks through the door wanting to succeed, they need to be supported, they need to feel safe and trusted in an environment. And they need to have the right leader and the right culture.

And that's where we communicate with our leaders. And even we do your time trainings for our leaders so they can properly make sure that we're executing on the intent of that platform in team members should never sit down with us in a year's time one on one and be surprised at what we're talking about. It's not that time to again, hit them with that the bomb of production of you didn't do this, you didn't do that day to day things. We're always coaching. And I use coaching a lot, you know, just in my verbiage, because our leaders are called captains here. It's just like in sports that we are on the field winning with our team members. So there's never that moment that they're surprised. So your time is just a very healthy sit down that team members don't fear. And I think we really start looking forward to it. So it's, I think, a very unique platform.

To know that dreaded performance review where you've got to fill out four documents.

Oh, Pascal, am I right? Yeah. Can I make it another month? No, no, it's about here.

Let's talk a little bit more about the fun aspect of the culture here. You mentioned in the conference, the dance party, which really resonated with me, and I'll tell you why in a moment. But tell us about the dance party and why why do you have a dance party in an office.

Because it's alright to stop for a few minutes. And it usually lasts no more than 10 minutes to unwind. And enjoy just the front have fun and friendship value of what we do. We have an area in our lobby that day to day team members for interviews, candidates would come in and sit down wait for the recruiter in this magical kind of island, if you will, if you can envision it on Thursdays at three o'clock it flips into a DJ booth. So we have resident DJs here because we're more than we do in the life of the loan. We have people here that spin on the weekend. So there are DJs that are dance parties. And it's amazing of the hundreds of people and it's not mandatory or anything people can come because they know exactly where it's at, like clockwork on a scheduled basis. And we can dance and we can enjoy and we can have fun and how unique that is in there. It's no judgement zone. And it is so fun to see, people let loose for a little bit. And it's even nice, you know, if we miss a client call, it's alright, because we're having a dance party because this just happens every week here. And that's okay. And I think it's just a really great way to just for healthy again, realignment, celebration, whatever team members use that outlet hours. And I'm questioning a lot of my background. And Ellen, because Ellen would start every show by dancing with music and her resident DJ, but the dance party started from a team member because they worked right next to the closing team. And they just needed that kind of midday stretch where they'd stand up and play music and start dancing. And then with their open work environment, it started flooding to everybody else. And all of a sudden you have this still to this day, 5000 person company and we dance. And that's so cool. And it's totally fine. And you don't we do mortgages that people think is, you know, some maybe stuffy industry. And that's not you cannot want and you can dance.

I love it. I understand some of the science behind it too. It changes your physiology. And we talk about bringing our whole self to work coming into work with the right attitude and energy level. And keeping that energy level up can be challenging. And as we spoke earlier, in my last corporate role, I started my staff meetings with a blast of music, and I wasn't as kind as you are you you give people the option. I didn't give people the option. It was mandatory. You were dancing. But the reason I did it is because it does it changes the blood flow in the system, it moves it changes your mindset completely. So whereas people might be and particularly a Thursday afternoon, you know, that's the that's the time when you may be starting to dip so it's a perfect time to get the energy level up and to raise the energy level. So I absolutely love it. And I only wish that we were here on this afternoon. So participate. I am known for dancing on stage.

I love it

Usually AC DC very challenging return, is it?

And see what that too because just in talking about the physical nature of how it kind of shifts, maybe even your engagement for the day is we start every day here every single team in the company 100% with a team huddle. So the leaders in would you stand up and you move away from your desks and you get into huddle formation like a team wouldn't sports talk about yesterday? day's victories today's objectives, any barriers to succeed any challenges if people want to talk about training opportunity, share best practice it's really limitless. You'll see a lot of those huddle start with people playing music, you start hearing like hip hop music play and people rise and their walks the area that they huddle at. And then all day people are energized by that. And then the the way we're seated here in our environment, it's almost a virtual huddle because your leaders place right in the middle of your of your pod and your pack. So there is something to that starting your day, just highly engaged and energized. In Becta music, even when you're traveling here and stairwells music's playing, you know, the culture is kind of always those little pieces are following you around. So you never you can never shake it. You're never you're never away from it.

For those people in the audience, the naysayers, that perhaps listening to this thinking, Oh, well, that's great. You know, it's all sounds like very sort of Silicon Valley kind of culture. You know, it's all fun and table tennis and having fun at work. What about the metrics? What about the numbers? What about the hardcore numbers, and I'm sitting here in a conference room, and I have seen in at least three different places a visual of the hard metrics of the objectives of the company. And in fact, your assistant, who hasn't been here that long, walk through them with me as if she'd been working at the company for years, and understood the I would imagine fairly complex business mechanics of this mortgage business. So talk to me a little bit about the hard side, the hard metrics.

As a mortgage company, a production company, everything we do is metric driven. Team members know their expectations. I mean, we work in queues, we have quotas for the day. So it's very evident, where our goals lie you come in in the morning, you know exactly what you have to tackle, you know exactly how we have to win today, you know, how even how we're going to be challenged to reach a little higher. And there's excitement in that. Because with this open environment, and with our philosophies, with the culture, we have healthy competition, we always want to be better even with that continuous improvement pillar better tomorrow than we are today. So you can do all that, and you can dominate, but you can wrap it in an amazing culture, have fun, and enjoy what you're doing, we enjoy what we're doing. And so as you see people hit the quota for today and say, Hey, leader, Hey, Captain, I'm gonna one up this, I'm gonna hit three more today, by the time I leave, we don't relax. So we're constantly striving. And that team member could say, oh, I'm almost there. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna rest a little bit, I'm gonna go get some of the free pop, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go talk to a friend. We don't see what because we're constantly challenging ourselves to get better and how we can celebrate that. And I think a lot of it is even though we kind of coined at the firm for to hear that what we want for our team members is a hard, fully focused eight hours in a workday, go home, do what you work for. So when you give them the metrics in which to succeed, I know exactly what's expected of me today. And then I'm going to dominate my eight hours to make that happen. And then hopefully even reach a little farther, and go home to what I work for whatever that might be fitness, children, anything community, then you have everything in a work environment. And none of this is ever silly. It's very genuine, and it's intentional. And we can be in beast mode being number one and what we do, and we are by a longshot, and we have a blast, you can have it all. And it's okay with naysayers, maybe you know, there's people that prefer to work at home, in your in your pajamas on the couch with your laptop, and you're dominating. That's your culture. That's what you prefer. This is mine. It's different forms for different people. And one of the things that I think is okay to state and own is we don't do workplace flexibility. We all come here every day, you don't work from home, United shore, and United Wholesale, you come here every day, and you grind because a team does that. You can't win on the court, there's player missing at home. So we've all come here every single day unified. This is our only office, this is their headquarters. We don't have other offices, everybody comes here together under one roof, one cord and we grind.

What advice would you give to companies struggling with transformation? For you, you started this culture, you were in it right from the very beginning, pretty much right and and built it up. But for those who are dealing with this seismic shift, that they have more traditional culture, more positional power type based culture. And they're really maybe there's one or two leaders at the top that are really striving hard to shift the culture to be more in line with the culture that you have designed here. Any thoughts? What advice could you would you give those leaders?

I think, if you were to take a peek into our headquarters right now, we have we've taken we are an extreme example, I think of workplace culture and very Google is very, I mean, I'm a Disney like, but when I joined eight years ago, it was we worked out of convert to grocery store, we had white walls, no color, we had mahogany desks that were mismatched it but that was all okay, the people shine the people made a special, that's the main ingredient. So if there's companies thinking that they have to have the bright colors on the walls, the slide in the lobby, that's not what I think workplace culture is, I think it's investing in believing in your people, and then giving them the platform to do more. And a lot of that, too, could be even at visual things. But when you're investing in your people, and you're trying to have better alignment, and even if you talk to people first, and if you don't have that, right, that makes some changes. But it's leadership that's listening to their needs and their wants. I started with simple things, even like they wanted a break room or team members want windows, very simplistic things. But those things allowed them to have greater satisfaction at work, and then started opening up to more Okay, now we've got a comfort level, I start somewhere seeing it, okay. And I also leadership by and right, I have leaders and I have people that I have to answer to, are they comfortable. And then little by little, we started shaping this place to be the magical place it became and it didn't happen overnight. Because I think that's some of the flaw in the shift of workplace culture is if your team members are conservative today, and then they come in Monday, and all of a sudden you have repaints the place and there's quotes on the walls and you've got, you know, a pinball machine like that's, that's not the right way either. It's truly listening to your people need and want do they want greater collaboration do they want on bookable space to be able to go to and get away, do they not have laptops, and they want some greater freedom to not be tethered to their desk, those small things, I think start adding up to the greater big picture. And then this just really serves as you know, again, that back the platform to help them succeed. It's it's not about the environment, if I take up take all the people out of this environment, I have nothing. This place is just fancy, bright colored place. It's it's just one piece of the puzzle and shirt attracts talent. But then when they join us, it has to be genuine and the people make a genuine it truly everything is about the people and giving them a voice. I think it's very surprising. Once you start talking to your team members, what do you want to see different? What would you challenge differently? And what amenities Do we not have you interested in fitness? Well, maybe because we have your basketball court, I can't give you that give you a basketball and parking lot, maybe you know, some kind of a hoop I bought out there. Or I can help you with gym memberships, what's important to you. And that's really start it starts changing and shifting in once you genuinely are here to support them and believe in them and you create solutions for them and doesn't always cost money. Sometimes you might hear they just want more your time. Culture starts to change. They want to be able to gather more sometimes that's just a potluck is that taking everybody out to a concert or hiring ludicrous form for them? There's very simplistic measures, I think, to get to where we are today. And that's how I started this eight years ago.

Good advice. It starts at the top here. That's Matt. So we talk about finding leaders with Gravitas. Gravitas is that irresistible quality that pulls you in, that you will do anything for that person because you know they've got your back, that they will support you in your goals, whether it's family business, you feel safe, that's a leader with gravitas, truly an authentic leader. What are some of the traits? Well, first of all, is Matt, a leader with gravitas?

Definitely, most definitely. He's my partner. As I was saying, with the team members and leaders I work with, they're my partners, like Matt is my number one partner. I think first and foremost, we're friends before anything else. We don't even use terms around here like boss manager. And that's where it comes to like my leader, you know, my captain, like he's my captain, you know, and we have such a healthy, amazing relationship. And he empowers me to do amazing things here. And I think building that trust and the belief is such a special thing. So yes, most definitely.

So the what are the key traits of Gravitas that he has?

I think it's just believing, believing in you. He has such a solid belief in me in what I do here. And I think that empowering, empowering your team members, the bulk of what I have my hands in here on paper, I have no business doing. I've developed probably 90% of how I spent my day today, I didn't have those skills prior to working here. I've developed those there from being here. And then I think just to open an accessibility genuine nature, that he demonstrates the most humble person, very successful, but you wouldn't know it if you ran into him outside of these walls. And I love the day years ago when he he and his father, his father founded the company 33 years ago, they were upset they couldn't remember everybody's names anymore. And when I joined there was nearly 500 people and they knew everybody personally about their children first names, last names, even where they live, how they grew up. And now once we get to that certain point that that became a pain point. Oh my gosh, we've got so big and most CEOs, owners, how amazing or so successful are so big for them to take that setback and say, oh, gosh, we're so big that those touch points that make us so special, how do we retain that? How do we develop more leaders that do that for us, you know, and to be able to trust us with that. So every team member we have is their family. And as we grow, you need leadership's that you leadership structure that you can trust people, because now I can do that for them and keep the mat and jackfish via the sp-a way going. For as long I mean, we're going to be in business so long your children will be running this place, but it's that that torch that we own and carry for them.

Let's go down that timeline. What's your legacy? Laura?

Oh, my legacy is ideas. I remember in college with a professor asking what are you best at? And I couldn't answer it. And so I frequently challenged people here of like, what are you best at and it's makes me sad that people can't just take that proudly and own that one criteria of like, this is what I dominate. And I think I dominate creativity pretty darn well. And I'm very proud of that. So much. So that with my little boys, one of my boys name is Will to wish because I want that embedded and to Wilson thing is to wish it and even the being the Disney fan that I am, I've left my mark on this place, but not just this place to on people. The creative solutions that what I can do for people in how I'm able to listen to them in defined solutions to enrich their lives that goes well beyond, you know, this place and being a job. I used to think at La in the millions of people with my ideas that I could surprise and delight i I've never I don't meet those, I couldn't meet those people. I couldn't touch it, I couldn't feel it. Here I can see the difference I make for these people and their families. And that I hope is my legacy. And Australia. I'm currently telling my boys about what I do for a living. Yesterday, they had a snow day here in Michigan, and I couldn't go to school, while Mommy's got to go to work. So I have to put you in some care. Well, why do you have to go to work today? Because I make a difference? What does it mean? Why do you make a difference. And I started going through those examples of what a team member we had that had cancer and couldn't sleep because she had to sleep upright and had an immune to do so that same day, we sent a recliner to her house so she could sleep. And I started giving them those examples. And then they're five and seven, then like give me more examples. And I kept rattling, we spent 30 minutes talking about how we change lives here. And I get that I'm my position of vehicle to do that. We all do that here. And how special that is, you know, and I want that to be my legacy. But I want that to flood to the pit forward approach of by telling my boys about that, that they're going to grow up with that same demeanor, the team members here as you do good for somebody else, or doing good for somebody else. And how special that is.

You're a great role model clearly for your children, which we all as mothers strive to be. You're a great role model for leadership. And quite frankly, I think you're a great role model for industry in general, not just the industry that you're in. And my sincere hope is that the leaders out there in other industries will hear your story and what you have done here at this company and just take something away from it. And you have the courage and feel good enough within their own skin that they will step out and make a difference, as you say and do something more in line with authentic leadership than perhaps they've done before. So with that, I would like to say thank you very much for your time today.

Thank you a pleasure. Thank you so much.

48:45

If you enjoyed listening to this podcast and you found something of value that will help you on your quest for your gravitas then please share with your friends and colleagues and subscribe. Visit us at gravitasdetroit.com To find out more