If you struggle to get to the strategic stuff you want to work on because the operational workload you're facing is getting in the way, the traditional urgent / important matrix is probably not cutting it

In this week's episode we explore a simple alternative that can make a big difference when it comes to getting strategic work ticked off

Key points from this episode

• The drawbacks of the Important / Urgent matrix for prioritisation
• The Effort / Impact matrix as an alternative framework
• Prioritising when you're new into role
• A practical exercise when you need to gain some momentum with progress on strategic work
• Prioritising team workload

Useful Links

Connect with Pam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pamelalangancoaching/

Connect with Jacqui on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacqui-jagger/

Follow Jacqui on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@practicalleadershipcoach

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Hello, and welcome to this week's episode.

2

We are talking today about how

you can start to balance things.

3

If you are in one of those roles that

loads of our clients are, where you

4

have both the strategic priorities.

5

So the things that you need to contribute

in terms of strategic objectives, but

6

also you have got a heavy operational

workload, so your day to day stuff is.

7

Taking up so much time and effort.

8

How do you balance how you

spend your time and energy?

9

How do you make sure the

strategic stuff still gets done?

10

All of that kind of thing.

11

So Pam, this is something that comes up.

12

a hell of a lot for my clients and I

would imagine it's probably similar

13

for yours as well where there's all

these kind of conflicting of like where

14

the hell do I find the time when I've

already got all of this to get done.

15

Pam: Yeah and it does it comes up

a lot and it comes up in loads of

16

different situations as well because

it's not just when you're in a role,

17

this can happen when you're in a brand

new role, when you're trying to work

18

out, where do I put the focus first,

or it can even come up for my clients,

19

particularly when they want to start

a job search, but they're like, I've

20

just got so much going on at work that.

21

That's the priority.

22

So it's trying to work out how

you juggle everything, isn't it?

23

So how you get your workload in check.

24

So you've got the time to think

strategically and also to do all the

25

things outside of the day job as well.

26

Jacqui: Yeah.

27

And we've talked a few times in different

episodes on some of the challenges

28

that can happen when this is situation.

29

So we talked about what to do when

your workload is overwhelming, we've

30

talked about how to create boundaries

and all of that stuff can be really

31

useful, but I think what we recognized

is we haven't done anything where we've

32

really shared any kind of practical

tools about how to prioritize.

33

So if you do take some of the

tips that we've shared of, create

34

some time to create a plan.

35

Okay, but what's the structure?

36

How do I actually go about doing that?

37

And the generic advice that's

always given with prioritizing

38

is, tends to be urgent, important.

39

And the problem with the situation that

we come across, or certainly that I

40

come across with clients, I'm making an

assumption that yours are similar is that

41

everything feels like it is important.

42

Everything feels like it's urgent.

43

And so it's really hard,

because you prioritize things,

44

you've got a to do list.

45

There's so many things that are

both important and urgent that

46

you don't feel any further forward

having spent the time to do it.

47

So the framework we're going to cover

today is one that I've shared with clients

48

of mine and it's been interesting, the

response to it, because I think sometimes

49

people are Whoa, no, I can't possibly.

50

And other times I Oh,

that's really interesting.

51

It's really useful.

52

So it will be intriguing to see what

the response is from the listeners.

53

So the framework that I share

with clients is an alternative

54

to the urgent important matrix.

55

And it's still a two by two

matrix, but with this, what you're

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looking at is effort and impact.

57

So what you're doing is understanding with

the various tasks that you do and that

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you need to be doing, how much effort or

energy or resource is going to need to

59

go in to doing that thing, and how much

impact is it going to have when it's done.

60

And so it's still a two by two matrix,

but what you're doing is looking, instead

61

of how important and how urgent something

is, how easy or hard is it to do, and how

62

much impact will it have when it's done.

63

And when you start to think about

that, You can do similar to what you

64

would do with the Urgent Important

Matrix of you can literally get a post

65

it, write all the different things

down and plot them onto this graph.

66

And that's how I've used it when I've run

in person sessions with clients is we've

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literally had a flip chart and we've had

a load of quick post its and we've got

68

people plotting where these things are.

69

So Pam, as a first, first thought

then, how does that one land with you?

70

Pam: Yeah, it's different, isn't it, to

like the usual urgent, important thing

71

that we've all kind of become accustomed

to because everything that goes on to

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your to do list all of a sudden is, once

it's on the list, you need to tick it off.

73

It all becomes important.

74

A lot of it will be urgent.

75

And I always find that when you're

in that situation, that list

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just becomes longer and longer.

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And you just don't get

through it all do you?

78

And the more you try to get through, the

more things get added onto the bottom and

79

the less things you actually get done.

80

So I actually really love

this way of thinking it.

81

It is quite a different

way of thinking, isn't it?

82

And, it was really interesting

your views around it.

83

And one of the things that, that I liked,

what you were talking about on the blog

84

was thinking of the effort as fuel

that you put in the car and the impact

85

on how far you can get because you

don't really ever put , the effort and

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the energy that it takes to actually

complete the task into the picture do

87

you, when you're doing your to do list?

88

You just create this massive list and

then you're like I've just got to power

89

through it and you don't take that

into consideration or even prioritize

90

based on energy levels, do you?

91

Jacqui: The thing with this, when

you think about it, is that, in

92

effect, what it does is just takes

out urgency altogether, and it looks

93

at, so the impact is effectively

equivalent, really, to the importance.

94

So you're still looking at how important

is something, but in this way what you're

95

doing is framing that as what impact

is it going to have when it's done.

96

How important something is

in effect is probably fairly

97

well correlated to the impact.

98

On the flip side, though, you're

not looking at timeframes on this.

99

You're looking how easy or hard it is.

100

So you're not looking

at, is there a deadline?

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When is the deadline?

102

And this is not to say, by the way, that

we're advocating that you just chuck out

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everything with an urgent deadline and

don't do it, but it's a different approach

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and a different way of looking at things.

105

What you therefore are doing is

essentially saying okay, here's my little,

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four grid box, but the things that I'm

going to look to do first are the things

107

that are low effort, but high impact.

108

That's my quick wins box.

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That is where I can get something

done that will have an impact,

110

but will not be hard to do.

111

And I think there's real merit in

understanding what those things are,

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because it's all too easy on a big

to do list for them to get lost.

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And the benefit when you do something.

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And you get it done and you get it

ticked off is that feeling of yes, you

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feel good for having done something.

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It feels like you're making progress.

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It feels like you're making momentum.

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And so coming back to what you were

saying about energy, it helps to maintain

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and create a sense of energy when

you feel like you're making progress.

120

On the flip side, the things that

are high effort, but low impact.

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They are the massive energy drains.

122

They're the time suckers because it's

Oh my God, there's too much effort

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and how much different, like no one's

even going to notice when it's done.

124

And those are the most

soul destroying things.

125

And so if you're spending a lot of your

time in that quadrant, then what you're

126

going to find is that you're spending

a lot of effort or energy for very

127

little payback, very little impact.

128

And so It's worthwhile understanding

and challenging and asking that question

129

of do those things need to be done.

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And if they do, do they

need to be done right now?

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And do they need to be done in the

way that they've always been done?

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Or do we need to find a simpler

or quicker or easier way?

133

Or can we do them to a lower standard

than what we would apply so that we

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then change that equation so that

the impact might still be low, but

135

actually at least if we're not having

to put loads and loads of effort in

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then it's not the ends of the world.

137

So I really like that about this matrix

is that way of it, it just disregards the

138

time constraints for the purposes of just

undertaking the exercise and just really

139

focuses on how important something is or

isn't and how easy or hard it is to do.

140

Because if you're finding those

quick wins, we'll all recognize that

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feeling, won't we, of finding the

quick wins and how good that feels.

142

Pam: Yeah, and it is, it's a totally

different way of it's a reframe, and it's

143

a reframe because it can be difficult

when you've got that huge to do list

144

and that massive amount of pressure on

you to, to be doing everything, to be

145

strategic, to do all the operational

stuff, to keep the team happy.

146

It's, you just feel like sometimes

you're just in that hamster wheel,

147

don't you, on a day to day basis.

148

And this tool I think is.

149

Brilliant to refocus and go actually,

what is going to be the, what are

150

going to be the easiest things to get

off this list and, what's going to

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have the most impact and, that can be

the most impact on team, business, on

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yourself, there's loads of different

things that you can look at that.

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And I suppose with this, then what

scenarios would you use this in?

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Jacqui: There's so many, but we've

picked four for the purposes of

155

the podcast, because otherwise

we could be going for hours.

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So the first one I would say is

when somebody is new into a role.

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So when you're new into a role, whether

that's because you've been promoted

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or you've started in a new business,

We've got our first 90 days episode and

159

we'll link to that in the show notes.

160

But we always talk about that

kind of first 30 days, especially

161

as being a real learning phase.

162

So what you're wanting to do is

to have those evaluations, create

163

that understanding, knowing what

might need to go into the plan.

164

And if you approach that learning phase

with this in mind, what this matrix can do

165

is help you to shape and ask some really

helpful additional questions because you

166

don't just know what needs to be done.

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You can then ask those questions of,

and what's going to be involved in

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doing that and how much impact is that?

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Because you won't always have the context

to answer the question when you're new of

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how much impact will it or won't it have.

171

Some of these things will be things that

might have been, shelved and be handed

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over to you of now you're starting,

here you go, here's your list of things

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that we want you to achieve or get done.

174

Others will be things where I've worked

with leaders that have gone into a

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business and either there's been a vacancy

or there's been somebody in the role who

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perhaps wasn't performing brilliantly.

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And so it feels every rock they turn

over, it's like there's like more chaos,

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more things crawling out from under.

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It's just I'm just going to put this

back here and pretend I didn't see it.

180

But what this does is it allows you as

you're going through that learning phase

181

in a new role to start to understand

what questions do I need to ask?

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Can I evaluate how much effort it is?

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How much impact it will have?

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And if not, then you can ask the question

so that you can have that evaluation.

185

And then it starts to almost

then put them into that priority.

186

So again, your quick wins would be

first coming after that typically, or

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coming potentially alongside that if

there weren't any quick wins would be

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your high effort, but also high impact.

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And these often are things

that are bigger projects.

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Things that can be chunked down,

things that will take time, things

191

where you might have stages of

something that you need to do.

192

So in those early days in a new role, this

gives you a framework to start to almost

193

plot and see where do they all sit until

I feel like I've got a fairly full picture

194

and then I can make my plan, but I've been

plotting them as I've been gaining that

195

understanding and doing that evaluation.

196

Pam: Yeah, and I think that's perfect

in a new role because the easiest

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time I think is, when you start a

new role or when you look in at new

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ways of prioritizing and new things

to do is when you start a new role.

199

It's so much easier to start off

and, make a change to the way that

200

you've done things in the past because

you can, because it's a new role.

201

So you are able then to go okay,

this is what I'm going to do.

202

These people don't know me, they

don't know how I've worked before.

203

So it's easier.

204

To, to start using a new methods than

it can be if, if you're well established

205

in your role, like I always find while

being the new person in a role can

206

sometimes feel quite difficult because

you want to get up to speed as quickly

207

as possible and you want to get stuck in.

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I always think it's the best time

because that's where you can create your

209

boundaries, where you can really get

stuck in, but, without working loads

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of extra hours as well, because using

this tool, you will, you'll be able to

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work less hours and make more impact

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Jacqui: Such a good point about people

not knowing when you're in a new role,

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whether you've used this as a tool before.

214

And I think it can help.

215

with that confidence, because

people sometimes have a

216

bit of a confidence wobble.

217

We've talked about, buyers

remorse and hitting the wall

218

when you're in a new role.

219

And I feel like this, giving some

structure to your evaluation can

220

help to maintain that confidence.

221

And other people can see

that you're taking quite a

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structured and measured approach.

223

And you're so right about that is

easier when you're doing that in a new

224

role, and it's different people who

haven't seen how you were operating.

225

So they're not comparing, they're

just seeing this is how you are,

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and this is how you operate,

and this is a tool that you use.

227

Pam: Yeah, and I think, the, when you're

doing that as well, and when you're

228

implementing those things and when you're

trying them out and sharing those things

229

with, maybe with your new teams or your

colleagues or whatever, a lot of the time

230

you'll find that they didn't know what

that tool was or didn't know it existed

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and it can be good for them as well.

232

It's almost like sharing

the love, isn't it?

233

When you find something that is going

to make your life easier, then, you can

234

share it with everyone else as well.

235

What other scenarios then would we

use this in or could we use this in?

236

Jacqui: Another one for me is

where you've got that situation

237

where you want to get momentum.

238

I had.

239

Somebody who I was coaching a little

while ago and they literally it's

240

like their brain was so full of all

the stuff that they were trying to

241

get to and it was all things that

were felt important felt urgent.

242

They absolutely live their

life by a to do list.

243

And this was about how do I gain momentum.

244

On a few key things.

245

And so what we did was exactly

that post exercise that I described

246

of, okay, let's plot them.

247

And I'm quite famous for this

clients is the rule of three.

248

It's okay.

249

You've plotted out all these things.

250

You can pick three.

251

And I remember like the look of sheer

horror of kind of I can't just pick three.

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I can't just pick three, but the

point of picking three is not that

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you're only going to do three.

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It's that you get your brain to

have absolute clarity on what

255

the first three things are.

256

And it's almost that don't stop,

don't pass go, do not collect

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200 pounds, just focus on three.

258

And within the next week, 10 days, Lo

and behold, the feedback was, Oh my

259

God, I can't believe how much progress

I've made on those three things.

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And it was just really putting it

into that framework and understanding

261

where are the things that I can have

the impact without having to put loads

262

of effort meant that they were able

to kickstart that momentum by just

263

simply picking out the three top ones.

264

But the natural thing.

265

Is often to try and do

particularly in that piece of.

266

So this was someone who was a global

director had, lots of different

267

committees and subcommittees that they

were part of had all of this strategic

268

responsibility but actually also had

quite a significant responsibility

269

with operational day to day stuff.

270

They were very approachable.

271

They were very supportive and they

ended up with a lot of people coming

272

to them for a lot of other things.

273

The whole have you got

five minutes type thing.

274

And what the other thing that we

then did there was looked at, okay

275

and of these other things that felt

like they were contenders for the top

276

three, are there elements of that,

that your team could support you with?

277

Are there elements of that, that somebody

else could get started on or where you

278

could give them some direction rather

than that sitting with your mental load.

279

And I think that's the other benefit

with this is that you will spot sometimes

280

those opportunities for potentially

other people to do something, to

281

support you with something so that you

can just get focused on those three.

282

And that's the secret to that kind of

kickstarting momentum is that aspect of.

283

You're putting to bed you've got the

list of all the other things, so you're

284

not going to forget them, you're not

ignoring them, but you're putting to

285

bed, focusing energy and attention on

them until such time as you've picked

286

off at least one of these, and then your

brain has less to focus on, away you go.

287

Pam: Yeah, I love that.

288

It's like carving up the responsibility.

289

So you go okay, these are the things

we're going to focus on, but actually do

290

I need to focus on all of these things

myself or can other people get involved?

291

And then you're going to move

the needle faster, aren't you?

292

You're going to be able to get

through more stuff and also get other

293

people involved, which can also be

great for their development too.

294

And that just means

that your head is clear.

295

Like when you told me about picking

the top three, that's something that

296

I've been doing now for a while since

you shared that with me, because your

297

to do list can get so overwhelming.

298

And when you're just like I'm

focusing on the top three things.

299

And when they're done, I'm going

to pick another three things and

300

I'm going to keep moving through.

301

And it does, it makes a massive

difference because those to do lists

302

are absolute killers, aren't they?

303

When you keep adding to it and you've got

so much stuff on it and just the thought

304

that you might forget something, you

might forget, to come back to it later,

305

or you might forget to do it all together.

306

Having those thoughts going through

your mind can really Like, it's

307

almost like a brain fog, isn't it?

308

Because you can't focus on things because

you're just thinking about the whole list.

309

Whereas when you're just focused

on those top three, and then, even

310

prioritizing, one thing out of

them top three to get started on

311

just makes a massive difference.

312

And I find that I get through a

lot more stuff now doing that.

313

And it's not, it doesn't

feel as pressured.

314

You don't feel that massive amount of

pressure, when you open your notepad

315

and you've got three pages, like I'm

thinking back to to my corporate days

316

and I used to have a notepad and, I could

easily have three or four pages of a to

317

do list and I'd just open it every day.

318

And be like, where am I going to start?

319

And do I start at the top

or do I start at the bottom?

320

Or do I start in the middle?

321

And usually the place that I started

was the place where, or, the point where

322

people were shouting the loudest for it.

323

So I'd open my emails and

I'd be like, Oh, okay.

324

So you need that desperately.

325

So that's going to become the priority.

326

Or, somebody comes up to your

desk and they ask for something.

327

So you right now that's the priority.

328

Whereas now what I'll tend to do is I've

got the top three things and I'm like,

329

yeah, I'm still working on that thing.

330

It's still, it's still on my radar.

331

However, I am also, I need to

get these things finished first.

332

It's not I'm going to get to

you, but maybe it's going to

333

be on Wednesday and Thursday or

Wednesday or Thursday rather than.

334

I'm going to add it on

to today's workload.

335

And it does make a difference because

you feel like you've got more structure

336

in your day as well, because you

know what you're working on and when

337

those things come in from the side

that you're like, yeah, that's fine.

338

It's definitely going to be done,

but not right now or not today.

339

Jacqui: And I think that communication

piece is also another real

340

benefit of if you've got that real

clarity on here's my top three.

341

These are the things now

that are my quick wins.

342

This is what I'm going after.

343

And then you get a side swipe, something

that comes in from nowhere, then you can

344

ask yourself the question and there is

some discipline to doing this, but you

345

can ask yourself the question of, does

this deserve is this more of a quick win?

346

Is this either, higher

impact or lower effort?

347

Does this kind of outrank one of the

three things that I'm working on?

348

And if it's not.

349

then you can communicate and you

can go back to somebody and say,

350

look, appreciate that is important.

351

These are the things that I'm working on.

352

You don't have to share loads of

detail and, everything about all

353

that you're doing, but it can be

really helpful to sometimes go back.

354

And what I've found is that often if

you go back, something that somebody

355

told you was like, also crucial.

356

If you actually go back and say, okay.

357

These are the things that I've got on my

list at the moment, which means I'll get

358

to yours at this point, or, I can do this

element of it often what you'll find is

359

people are just so much in that cold kind

of panic zone that they don't necessarily

360

even know what's needed, why it's

needed , they're being quite reactive.

361

And if you have that clarity of

well, these are the priorities

362

that I'm currently working on,

I can get to that at this point.

363

And this is regardless of the

effort impact matrix or urgent

364

important or whatever else, if

you push back, it's surprising

365

how often something that suddenly

366

so important suddenly is not that

important after all, or not that

367

urgent after all, or is neither.

368

Or sometimes it's that you've

interpreted it as being urgent

369

because somebody's asked.

370

I think there's a real drive.

371

With emails, people feel like, Oh, I

should have dealt with all my emails

372

and I need to get back to people.

373

And so emails often people will try

and bash through a load of emails and

374

get back to people really quickly.

375

And it's how important is that

relative to, how much of an impact

376

is it going to have if you do that

versus if you spend this half hour

377

working on your number one priority.

378

And so when you start to look at

the impact of where you're choosing

379

to focus your energy and attention.

380

Sometimes those choices are different.

381

Pam: Yeah, definitely.

382

And I think just even just

stopping to take the time to

383

go what are the quick wins?

384

What do I need to park?

385

Because I think sometimes, I

know I used to do this, put

386

everything on the to do list.

387

So everything that I want

to do, even if it's like.

388

Not now, it's in, in the next 12

months, I put everything on the list.

389

So the list would be absolutely huge.

390

And then it's it just

becomes so overwhelming.

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So even just kinds of creating

those, either creating the

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different lists or putting.

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The post it onto the matrix or even

setting up a Trello board where you've got

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like the whole to do list and you can drag

the cards into the different sections.

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So you're like these are the quick

wins or these are the priorities

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or, this is what I'm working on.

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And then you can literally just

move those things around, have

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another list that's completed.

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And then as you see the completed list,

become more full than the to do list.

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You're like, yes I'm finally winning.

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But I always think having that focus just

makes such a difference and also just like

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having that conversation with yourself

where you're like, does this really need

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to be on the list and I'm a put now and

just because I'm going to forget about

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it or does it actually need to be done.

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Jacqui: Yeah, so it's so important.

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The other thing with this matrix, and

the other time that this can really come

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into its own, is when you're looking

at restructuring a team, when you're

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looking at carving up responsibilities.

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So this could be as a result of somebody

joining the team, it could be a result

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of somebody leaving the team, it could

be somebody coming back from maternity

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leave, reducing their hours, going

part time, anything along those lines.

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But what it can help to do is then

you can look at all of and with this,

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you probably would just take all the

business as usual stuff and think

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about where would you carve those up?

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Where would those things sit?

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And what this often does when you look

at it across a team is you start to think

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about something that is low effort for one

person might be high effort for another.

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So the Impact is the same, but one

person, because of their strengths

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and their skill set, may be for

example, managing client accounts.

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There are some people who would

absolutely relish managing client

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accounts and other people who are

Oh, it's a massive interruption

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to what I'm trying to get done.

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And you can then have some of

that conversation around dependent

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upon strengths and skill sets.

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How does that feel for people?

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What needs to be done?

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You'll also sometimes find that

there's more than one person

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that's currently doing the same

thing or overlapping things.

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So you'll sometimes find when you look

at this across a team that there's

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opportunity to streamline or change

how things are done so that things

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are lower effort overall and therefore

In terms of resourcing, it can help

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to just ease if you feel like things

are starting to creak at the seams.

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This can be a really useful exercise

because what it does when you discuss it

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as a team is helps people to understand

their own and each other's priorities.

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And sometimes then it can be about, not

putting pressure on at certain times.

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So for example, in a finance team,

if you do management accounts every

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month, there'll always be certain times

of the month where pretty pressured.

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And so therefore it might be a case of

looking at, how do you manage how that

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workload is separated and divvied up.

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And there might be people that aren't

involved in management accounts.

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And it's just almost that awareness

of how that all works together,

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that can be really useful and really

beneficial sometimes to have some of

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that conversation together about how

those things can sit and how they

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sit for one person versus another.

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Pam: Yeah, I really like the idea of

using it for the team as well, because

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looking at it from that different

perspective, and it could be that when

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you start to carve up the different tasks

and then you're looking at, different

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skill sets and things like that's a

real opportunity to see, what skill

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sets have we got missing from the team

or, where do we want to develop people?

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And it just takes it in a whole new

direction then as well, because it,

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you're then developing the team,

you're working together as a team.

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And it's all of that stuff that,

fits in so nicely with leadership

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and creating those high performing

teams when you understanding

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the workload across the team.

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Because I know myself in the past,

when, when we got together as

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a team when you bring different

teams together, what you'll find is

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there's always duplication of work.

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There's always people that think.

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Things are important that are

not necessarily important and

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it's always a good opportunity

to go what are our priorities?

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What is our big focus?

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What is the vision for what we're

trying to create or deliver here?

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And then fitting it all into the matrix

together, then you're this gives us

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the overall view, but it also helps us

to understand each other's roles and

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also understand where the gaps are.

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Jacqui: And also, I think from an

engagement perspective, it helps people

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to have that sense of recognition about

the impact of things that they do, because

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very often if people's Doing something

it's business as usual for them, they

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can lose that connection with the impact

and the reason why it's being done.

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And so actually, if as a team, you're

plotting stuff and saying this is high

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impact in terms of contribution to the

team, to the business, to our objectives,

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then that can be really motivating.

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And on the flip side, if you've

got people where actually.

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everything that they're being

asked to do is in that kind of high

475

effort, low impact matrix, that

corner of the matrix, then that can

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potentially be pretty demoralizing.

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And if you've been frustrated with someone

that they're not pepped and at their best

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every single day, and then you recognize,

Oh, hang on a minute, relatively

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speaking, actually what could we do?

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to enable them to have something

that would give them a bit more of,

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balance it with some things that are

maybe lower effort and higher impact.

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How could, like you say, development,

what opportunities are there?

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How could you maintain

engagement within the team?

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That for me is a real plus because

so often a lot of the day to day work

485

feels thankless, but when you come

back to this matrix, it is actually

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high impact like if it wasn't done,

that will be a significant consequence.

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So it can also help with that to feel

like, okay, it is quite high effort.

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But it is also really important

that that stuff happens.

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It does have an impact.

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And if it wasn't there,

that would be a problem.

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So at least then, even though it

might feel high effort, at least

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you feel like, yeah, there's a

contribution there that I'm making.

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Pam: Yeah, I love that.

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And everything that I do is thinking from

a job search and CV writing perspective.

495

And what I find loads of people do

is they forget what they do on a day

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to day that is having a high impact.

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So what they'll tend to do is

they'll, they'll just put on a list of

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responsibilities rather than thinking

through what are the day to day things

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that I'm delivering that are having

a really high impact on the business.

500

And they're the things that

should be going onto the CV.

501

They're the things that should be

getting talked about in interviews and

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job applications and things like that.

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So just doing this as a way

of kind of understanding where

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you are making an impact.

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Individually is a really

great thing to do as well.

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Jacqui: So there we go.

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That's our final one then is actually

use this matrix to think about creating

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your CV and thinking about what you

need to include in terms of your

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experience and your contribution.

510

Because you will find that there are

things that are there and the high impacts

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and identifying that and articulating it

both on your CV and in interviews as part

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of your job search is incredibly valuable.

513

So thank you so much for joining us.

514

We've covered an awful

lot of ground today.

515

So I hope that as a kind of framework

has maybe been helpful and also

516

perhaps got your brain ticking.

517

If you are in that situation where you

got those strategic and operational

518

responsibilities we feel for you.

519

We know that is often a big challenge.

520

So we hope that as a tool will potentially

be something that will help to maintain

521

the momentum on some of those really

positive things and enable you to really

522

recognize the impact of what you're doing.

523

Thank you for listening.

524

And we will be back again next time.

525

In the meantime, if you have benefited,

please do share this with anyone that

526

you think would also appreciate it.

527

And of course, please do like and review

on your favorite podcast platform.

528

Thanks for now.

529

And we'll catch you next time.