Episode 8: Leadership Part 2: What is Post Covid Leadership and Diversity?

Show notes:

Join us in today’s episode of Unlock Your Block podcast, as we unveil the secrets of leadership in organizations with our accomplished guest, Susan Whitehead, a founder, executive, board member and CEO. Susan has a wealth of experience under her belt and she’s ready to share her insights into the skills necessary to truly shine as a leader. Get ready as she unpacks the essentials of leadership in organizations. She’ll take you through her personal journey, highlighting her transition from peer to leader and offer some invaluable advice for women striving to step up into leadership roles. 

Our conversation goes beyond personal growth and leadership essentials. We also tackle the critical issue of diversity in leadership as Susan addresses the biases and hurdles faced by underrepresented groups and dishes out advice on how to navigate these challenging situations. 

Buckle up for a mind-opening discussion full of insights and advice to guide you on your own leadership journey. 

In this episode, you will learn the following :

• Embrace leadership: Individuals need to embrace leadership roles even before they officially ascend to these positions. By acting and behaving as leaders, individuals can effectively prepare for future roles and responsibilities.
• Diversity in Leadership: Individuals from underrepresented groups can face significant challenges and biases in the workplace, but advises being vocal, persistent and positive as ways to navigate these issues.
• Navigating the Great Resignation: This includes the significant changes to leadership styles and workplaces in the post-pandemic era. With the rise of the great resignation, there is a greater focus on diversity, equity and inclusion. Leaders are now expected to lead with empathy and flexibility. 
• The Importance of Personal Development: Personal development is important in achieving leadership roles. Individuals should excel in their current roles, differentiate themselves and be willing to step out of their comfort zones to foster personal growth as a leader.
• Communication and Vulnerability: Open and vulnerable communication in leadership is significant. Whether it’s addressing unconscious biases, expressing discomfort or voicing out different perspectives, being open and honest can help  create a more inclusive and supportive work environment.

Connect with Susan Whitehead:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/susanwhitehead 

Websites: http://www.savvyinvestmentsllc.net/ and https://bayareayoungsurvivors.org/

Connect with Robin Cartwright:

Website: https://www.hiddengemscoaching.co/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robincartwright

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIGXKZtXOcHTojxFfr4FtYA

Welcome to the Unlock Your Block podcast, career empowerment with me, Robin Cartwright. Join me as I empower you to shine in your career, to up-level your life, and to go after your dreams. Let's talk.

Hi, welcome to the Unlock Your Block podcast with me, Robin Cartwright. I'm so glad you're here today. And today, I have a special guest. We are talking about leadership. We're going to talk about what it's like to be in leadership inside an organization. What's the expectations? And I have Susan Whitehead here with me. Thank you, Susan, for being here.

Susan Whitehead started out her career. So let me back this up. Susan Whitehead started out her career in the lab. Before moving into program management, she has extended, excuse my twang today, ascended the corporate ladder to earn an executive position of president and COO at PACT Pharma. Prior to joining PACT, Susan was a general manager and global head of operations at Caligor Rx. She has also held positions in program operations and various leadership positions in biotech, pharma and medical device. Susan has a seat on the board at PACT Pharma, Bay Area Young Survivors, and advisory board for California State University, Riverside, for their women executive leadership program. Woohoo!

In addition, she is a member of the Women's Business Leaders of the US Health Care Industry Foundation, WBL, Women In Bio, WIB, and is founding member of Chief and organization created to connect and support senior executive women across industries. She is also the owner of Savvy BioPharma Consulting, where she provides coaching and consulting services and Savvy Investments LLC, where she invests in real estate funds as limited partner and manages a portfolio of investment properties.

With a chemistry degree from Michigan State University and multiple certifications from Stanford, UC Berkeley and Northwestern University, Susan's thirst for knowledge fuels her impact, her mission to teach people to harness the power of purpose and ensure everyone's voice shapes the future. Susan is a pioneer in women's leadership and I am so happy to have her here with me today.

Thank you, Susan. And with that laundry list of everything you've done, where do you even find the time to do this? My goodness.

Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much, Robin, for having me today. I'm so honored to be here.

Yes, I'm excited to have you here. So you have been in leadership inside organizations for some time. Tell me a little bit about, what does it mean to be a leader in an organization?

Yeah, so I think what you're asking me, Robin, and just correct me if I'm wrong here, is what, you say, what does it mean to be a leader within an organization? And it's like, what are we looking for?

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, as an executive who's running a company, what are you looking for in leadership amongst others?

Absolutely, yeah.

Okay, yeah, thanks for clarifying. So, you know, there's a lot of things that go into that. I mean, obviously the first thing is, do they have the technical skill set that's needed to fill whatever that open role is, or you feel like they're going above and beyond. But I think one thing that a lot of people think about is, I need to build this skill set and expertise. And that is absolutely true. But what people need to look, start really focusing on is their leadership skills.

So, when we were looking for, who do we wanna promote or fill certain leadership positions within the company, we were constantly evaluating like, what type of leader of people are they? You know, or if there's several people that are at the same level, you know, have they gone above and beyond? And what have they done? And do others also view them as having, you know, like you can't dispute what so and so has done?

Now, of course, there’s always gonna be some naysayers, but I think what’s really important is I hear a lot well, I want to be, this level, right? I want to be a VP. I want to be, you know, SVP. I've been doing this role for a long time, but I'm like, okay. And I know this sounds cliche, but so often, at least what I've heard, I don't know if it's true or if it's just me. But what I have certainly heard, you know, over and over throughout my career is quite often, you need to be performing at that level before you get the title.

Act as if. Yes, I tell clients that all the time. You have to be that person.

Yeah. So not only be really great at whatever it is that you do and know your superpower, but really start to look at what type of leader are you amongst others? Are people going to, particularly if you're getting a promotion and there needs to be some type of reorg, people who were formerly your peers could end up reporting to you. So I think those are all really important.

I've certainly been in positions before where I've wanted a promotion and a former CEO, and I think this was some of the best advice that I've ever received in my career. Told me, Susan, help me help you. Right?

Right.

If you want this role, then how are these two other people going to feel about it? So you help me help you. So that way, if I put you in this position, they're not going to leave because we need them to, and they will look to you as the leader.

Right, right. So in your career, how did you start getting into leadership? I mean, if you're a woman and you're wanting to move into leadership, where do you start?

Oh my gosh.

I get that question all the time. Where do I start?

Yeah, I know. And it's so funny because I definitely like, the last five years or so of my career was really driving toward a leadership position. But, you know, I'm almost embarrassed to say for several years before that I was running from it. Because I was so afraid of it. Yeah, I was so afraid.

So, you know, I'll just share a little story with you and then you might have to bring me back. See if I go off on a tangent here. But when I was approached at PACT to take on the COO role and then learned exactly what that meant. So I was definitely aspiring to be a COO and I had made that, I had been vocal about it and shared what my aspirations were. So I wasn't so surprised when they came and offered me the title, but you know, there was more that came with it. So I thought, okay, I'll be COO and I'll be working side by side, like, you know, our CEO. And then I heard, you know, he let me in on his plans that he was going to exit. And then I would be in charge. That was not quite exactly what I had envisioned when I was asking for COO.

Here's the eye opener.

Yeah, so it took me, you know, it took me some time to really think through, was I ready to step into that role? And what, making sure I was very vocal about what support I would need to be successful in that role.

Right.

And one thing that really weighed pretty heavily on me is, you know, when I was at Caligor Rx and they were making me general manager, I absolutely wanted it. But then they said, Susan, okay, we're going to change your title to executive vice president. And I was terrified. I was so terrified to say, Oh my gosh, if this company is going to make me, like EVP–

Was the job that much different?

No, it was a job, would have been what I was doing. I just, I guess it was imposter syndrome. Like I was like, if I take this title, and it doesn't work out or if I fail, will somebody else hire me? Well, I have just, like out, put myself out of a future job. I felt very comfortable, like, at the VP level, but when you're talking like, EVP, for whatever reason in my mind, I was afraid of it and ran from it. So I was like, okay, this is the second time, two companies in a row, Susan, where they're trying to give you more. There must be something about you, so don't run from it this time.

Yeah, and I think that's it because I coach a lot of women that run from it. They're so afraid and like you said, all they did was change their title. Maybe you got a few more things that we were responsible for, but for the most part, it's the same job.

Yeah, it wasn't exactly what I was doing, just a title to match, but I didn't feel worthy yet to take it.

Yeah, worthy. That's a good word. Yeah, confidence, worthy, imposter syndrome. Oh, we, women, we deal with that a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things I think that really opened up my eyes to that was being a member of Chief and listening to these other women who were either, you know, emerging C level execs or were already in the C and hearing them talk about their fears. And I'm like, Oh, okay, this is normal. I didn't know it was normal. I didn't have anybody, you know, really wasn't, I probably was too proud or I didn't have many people to share that fear when–

Or I think when we look up to people and we don't realize that at the end of the day, they're just like you and I, they're just trying–

Totally.

Through the day, trying to do a job. It's just sometimes their job has different things than my job. Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly. Wow. So leadership in an organization, when you look at them, you’re looking at leaders and have you ever run across individuals that you think that they would be a great leader, but they're just too afraid to move into that role.

Yes, absolutely. I've had some superstar people on my team that I thought was really trying to mentor them and coach them. I think anybody who's reported to me will probably tell you, every performance review or a development plan, I need to see what your personal development plan is. How are you stretching and growing yourself?

You know, what I realized is some people are ready to take that on and others, you know, people move outside of their comfort zone. They have to make their own decision if they're going to do that. Like you can, what's the saying? Like you can take a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

Yeah, that’s it.

So, you know, I think, one thing and I've been really fortunate in my career to have some people who really helped to pound the table for me, you know, and close doors and help set the table for me to be successful. And in trying to do that and pay it forward, you know, it's just, I've definitely experienced some time where somebody's just not quite ready to take that.

Yeah.

And I can relate, cause I had been there too at one point.

Yeah, exactly. Now what about leadership and diversity? Cause you dealt with both of that. What advice, you have in that area?

Oh my gosh, so I have a lot of advice in this area. I think, gosh, I mean, you know, there's so many conversations around diversity and I really love it. And I think the biggest advice I could give someone when you're walking into a room and you're feeling like, you know, whether you're feeling or it's real, but you're the only, and you can fill in only whatever, only woman, only person of color, only LGBTQ person in the room, only single parent, only person that's older. I mean, you can fill it in.

For me, what's really helped, and I'll get back to your question about, what I think about leadership and diversity, but for me, what really helped me to still show up and take my seat was there's going to be biases. And a lot of them are unconscious biases. And so really just working toward, not letting that impact me, like staying focused on what is my purpose and intentionally choosing, like there's positive intent behind whatever is coming at me from this person, you know, and being vulnerable sometimes to let them know, wow, what you just said, you know, as a woman of color, I'm not sure how to interpret that.

And so, you know, and I've never been met with ill will when saying that. I mean, people have always been very thankful and have encouraged me to continue speaking up. But I think that it's really easy, and I don't want to diminish that this doesn't happen because it does, but I think it's really easy to get into that space of like, oh, my gosh, well, they're not going to listen to me because I'm a woman or they're not going to listen to me because of X, Y, Z, whatever internal story you tell yourself.

But what I really learned is, okay, maybe I don't think they heard me this first time, but if I believe it's really important, then I need to learn how to vocalize in a different way that they do hear me, and be persistent about it.

Right, right. So maybe practice in the mirror before you go in case you encounter it.

Yeah, because I had another story for you real quick. I had reported to, as a president one time, we didn't have a CEO, but it was a president of our division. And I had, I don't want to say warned, but I had, you know, highlighted, like there was a risk around something. I sent an email and I verbally said it. And then when this risk, this issue came to fruition, I said, Oh, this is what I had highlighted before.

And I literally got chewed out for about 10 minutes in his office because I was told, well, I hadn't been vocal enough in the level of risk. Like it wasn't appropriate for me to just send an email or if I had said it, I needed to stress it so he could clearly understand it. And so I have never let that happen again in my career.

Yeah.

Yeah. But–

I’m done.

Yeah, it was definitely a learning moment. But I think when we, you know, we talk about diversity and leadership, it really should be about, you know, a lot, you hear a lot of times diversity of thought. Well, that means you need to have, you know, people of diverse backgrounds sitting around the table. And also think, I mean, you know, Robin, have, you and I having worked in the healthcare, you know, biotech pharma space, one thing that's really important to me, and I know to a lot of us is around healthcare equity. Right?

Yeah.

Like we want to, a lot of us go into, you know, and spend our time in this field because we want to help patients. We've either been impacted personally or we have a family member or, you know, it's just a desire. It all revolves around patients.

Yeah.

But then you think, okay, well, how do you get drugs to market that can positively benefit and be accessible to all patients? Right. And then, you know, you hear a lot about diversity in clinical trials and how do we improve that. But I really think it all starts with, What's the leadership… like how diverse is the team that's working on the product even when it's in development? And then how diverse is the clinical team that's rolling the trial?

Because when people show up to sign up for a clinical trial, they're looking, you know, there has to be some trust. And if there's nobody that they can relate to culturally or, you know, from various aspects, then they may not show up and then you're not getting that data to know how it might impact certain subgroups of people.

Yeah, and I know when we worked together, we talked a lot about diversity and there was not enough. Granted, we were in a small organization, but there was not enough of a representation because when you bring that representation forward, you bring bits and pieces of a different viewpoint, different thought process, and that's what we really need in this world and to be able to move forward with those different processes.

And you brought up, you know, when you walk into a room and you're thinking about all the people in the room, well, are they gonna listen to me because I'm this X, Y, and Z, I'm a woman, I'm older, LBGTQ, whatever it be. And I thought of, you know, a lot of it stems from education. So I've run into situations where I'm older and I'm having that conversation with somebody and I'm saying, Look, just because I'm older does not mean I can't do the job.

That's right.

It does not mean I don't have the energy to do the job. So, you know, a lot of it, when you're having that one-off conversation is education. So if you run into those situations where you tend to say, Hey, you know, here, as I stand here as a woman, let me give you my viewpoints of this, sir.

Not so much from an interview perspective, but certainly when we've been talking about messaging to the company, you're preparing for, your all hands or something. I've definitely chimed up and chimed in and said, and again, I always do it from a positive intent. I don't think you mean this, but let me tell you what I just heard and how this may be perceived by some employees within the company.

I think that's huge in leadership. And I wish more women and more people would stand up and say something, not necessarily stand up, but speak up and say something. And say it like you said, in a positive light, so it comes across well.

Yeah. And I, you know what, and there are definitely times in my career where I have not, I mean, it's easier not to say something. Right. But I think, you know, anybody who's aspired to be a leader means sometimes you have to show up and say, like, have the difficult conversation. That is your job. And also you need to think about all the people who are trying to come behind you, right?

Yeah.

And if nothing else, like find the courage to have that conversation for them. Even if you're to a point where, you know, I hear this a lot, like, I'm just gonna leave. Okay, well, at least still give that feedback because think of all the people, like you're in a position where you can give feedback and think of all the people who don't feel like they have a voice. Or at least try to help pave the way, so it's a little bit better for the next person.

Right. Right. Exactly. And that's definitely a good leader. Yeah, exactly. So here we are talking about leadership and we went through, you and I went through COVID together. And that was just white the world. And all of a sudden, we're turned upside down. We're having to do everything online. What have you seen in the workplace in regards to leadership now that COVID sort of over? I mean, it's still going around, but we're back to work. We're back to supposedly somewhat of a formal work. What have you really seen change in leadership?

Oh, well, it's interesting. You know, when I think about, and I do vividly remember going through the pandemic in our conversations at that time. It's so surreal. I think one of the things that we really saw during the pandemic was around the great resignation, right? I mean, it was super hard to keep people. And even though we were in the pandemic at that time, I mean, the job market was still really hot, not the situation we're in now. And I think that really, you know, what I saw was a shift.

I also saw more conversations around DEI than I had ever experienced previously in my career. I can still remember when we got together and we talked about what happened at George Floyd at a company level and I was petrified going into this discussion. Totally. Because for me, you know, that was around the time of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Oh, yeah.

And I was afraid that somebody was going to say all lives matter and where that conversation would go from there. You know, because there was, just topics at work that, you know, in the past, I think I would have never even touched upon where, now we were having these conversations at work, which had been more like, you know, in the past, we probably wouldn't have had.

No, we [weren’t together]. Yeah.

So, you know, I really think that changed leadership. And then also, if you think of the more traditional like, hierarchical leadership top down, you know, if employees didn't feel inspired or didn't feel like they were getting developed or, you know, were not on board with the direction. I mean, people were just leaving.

Right.

And that was happening across the board at all companies. So I think, you know, as a leader, you really needed to look and say, Okay, how do I empower my people? How do I help support and develop them? You know, how do I retain my talent here?

Right. Cause we had a lot of people that were, you know, working from home and then, oh, all of a sudden you got to go back into the office and like, wait a minute, I have a life, I don't want to do this.

Yeah.

It was then we went to this hybrid role.

Yeah.

And it was learning how to manage and inspire and yeah, keep those employees because they were leaving left and right.

Yep. Yeah. I also think at that time, you know, we really needed to lead with more empathy because we didn't know what people were dealing with at home. We didn't know what people's situations were. And so many people were being impacted, either financially, loss of loved ones, et cetera, from the pandemic.

Yeah, do you think we're going now more into a more heartfelt type of leadership?

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I know that now we're definitely more, in a hybrid. A lot of companies are bringing people back more, but I still feel like they're being more flexible than they were pre-pandemic.

Right.

I do feel that leadership is coming from more of a heartfelt place because I do think that people are just in general looking at how they spend their time a lot differently now.

Yeah. And I know we used to talk a lot about work-life balance, and now it's more like work-life integration. How do you integrate work into life and make it slow?

That's exactly. I agree with you.

Yeah. So I think we're going to be hearing a lot more about that.

Yeah.

I'm really, I'm attuned to all the articles and input, Oh, this is interesting, how good it's working out. So it's going to be really interesting. So one thing I wanted to ask you since you're here and you are a woman so what advice would you give women who are aspiring to be leaders?

Yeah, I love this question. Thank you for asking it. The best advice I could give you is, whatever it is that you do, get really good at it. Like really own it, get really good at it. So when it's, whatever it is that you do, the company needs to get something done, you're like the go-to person for that. Cause that gives you really a lot of leverage. And then as you, you've honed your craft, think about, you know, I used to hear, what's your brand? And I thought, oh, this sounds so marketing and gimmicky. I didn't really quite get it, but really your brand is about what sets you apart.

So now you've honed your craft and it is so good that nobody can dispute it, right? What differentiates you from somebody else that's really good at it? Because sometimes it's not always the best technically savvy person that gets the position, right? Because you're looking at this whole, you know, what's all the leadership traits. So start to think about what differentiates you. Right? And then what do people who report to you say about you as a leader?

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, the other thing is you're going to have to be vulnerable. And I hear like, you know, some of the resistance I hear quite a bit is, Oh my gosh, I'm already working so much. Like I just possibly can't give any more. Look, there's only so many hours in a day. You're right, you're not gonna give more because you're already, like probably burning the midnight oil or what have you, right? This work life integration, you've been working really hard because you're aspiring to be in that role.

I think what I found that shifted for me though, was it wasn't the number of hours necessarily. It was more around the amount of time I spent outside my comfort zone and getting comfortable, getting more comfortable with that.

Yeah, very interesting. Yeah. And I always tell people, just take one step into that uncomfortable spot.

Yeah.

And then you'll start to feel more comfortable. For example, doing these podcasts, I just do one and I feel a little better. I do another, I feel a little better. And here we are.

Susan: Great job, Robin.

So thank you, Susan, for being here. I truly appreciate it. Do you have any other advice for our listeners before we head off from the day?

Oh gosh, I mean, just to go for it. When you literally walk into the room, they tell you like, take your seat at the table. Don't sit in the back like when you are, when you're not virtual and you're alive. Like you, your voice matters, irrespective of what position you have. And really just own it.

Right. Exactly. Own it. All right. You heard it, ladies. Own it. Thank you, Susan, for joining us. And we will have another podcast another time and invite Susan to join us later on. Have a great day.

Thank you, Robin.