In this episode, January Addison Lare shares her insights on navigating special education, advocating for children, and building collaborative relationships between families and schools. Her personal experiences and professional expertise offer valuable guidance for parents, educators, and advocates.

Keywords

special education, advocacy, IEP meetings, parent-school collaboration, disability support, education system, guardianship, Medicaid, family advocacy

Key Topics

• The importance of relationship building in IEP meetings
• Strategies for parents to advocate effectively
• The role of advocates in special education
• Impact of policy changes on families and services
• Guardianship and long-term planning for individuals with disabilities
• The need for systemic change in education and advocacy

Guest

January Addison Lare

Educational & Family Advocacy Consultant

Founder, Empowered to Thrive LLC

📞 785-513-9735

📧 [email protected]

🌐 empoweredtothriveconsulting.com

📍 811 S 1st Street, Atwood, KS 67730

Sound Bites

• “Fake it till you make it.”
• “Parents want someone to listen.”
• “Treat it accordingly.”

Chapters

00:00 — Introduction and guest background

324:55:32 — Personal journey and name origin

6388:49:06 — Experience in special education and advocacy

14972:09:33 — Guardianship and long-term planning for loved ones

28555:30:07 — Impact of policy changes on services and families

352777:43:44 — Entering IEP meetings: Building relationships

380833:17:10 — Preparing for effective meetings and collaboration

453611:04:09 — The role of advocates and communication tips

535277:44:32 — Addressing systemic challenges and future outlook

Guest Links

🌐 Empowered to Thrive Consulting

📧 [email protected]

📞 785-513-9735

specialedrising.com

Ray's Respite Care: https://www.gofundme.com/f/join-rays-respite-care-mission

welcome January to the show.

Thank you. Thank you.

I've never met a January before.

No, there's a very few of us out there. I think it was like the late nineteen seventies and there was some movie. I think it was called Once Is Never Enough and there was a character named January in the movie and so you'll find maybe a handful of people around my age with that name because it tried to take off but it never did. So

I January Jones,

the actress is the only other January I know. my gosh, that's

Yep. She was actually named after the same movie I was. So and she she's actually

my age.

you know, she she's doing better than I am, but

Well, you're doing okay. It seems like you're doing really well in your in your life and your career. And I'm

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

really excited because I found you I think it was TikTok, right? It's the TikTok or the or Instagram, I yeah. Probably.

Yep. It's probably both, but TikTok seems to be the one

that's taking off the most, yeah. Yeah.

Okay, that's great. That's the one I see you on most then.

yeah, and I relate to you in so many ways because of our experiences. And

Mm-hmm.

so I would I I just wanted to have you on the show and I appreciate your availability because I think

I love it.

there's a lot for you to share. and I'm excited to just get into some conversation about this stuff with you because a lot of the same themes keep coming up on different episodes with different people. And I've had other advocates on, but it's always great to get new perspectives because everybody comes

at it from a different place and an understanding of what that parent school relationship is like and I really want to get into that because I feel like there's so many misunderstandings that go on that maybe could be resolved with a better understanding going into these meetings. So that's where I want you to help us out.

Yep. I

wholeheartedly agree,

I appreciate you having me on.

I'm very happy to be here, so

my goodness, I

Mm-hmm.

think that you come across so knowledgeable and professional and you know I just like having smart people on. I really do. And it's really, obvious.

Well, I tell you what, thanks for saying

that. what I think is that you know, fake it till you make it. I identify a lot with the kids that I work with and I identify a lot with the parents sitting at the table as well, and I identify a lot with just different aspects of it. So I'm

Very passionate about some of the same things you're passionate about. So I'm just happy to have a conversation, you know.

Exactly. And that's what it is for me too. 'cause each conversation broadens my experience and my knowledge base and it gives me more perspective on things maybe I'm not thinking about, because some people are out there doing more in the field than I am at this point. And, I'm doing it from behind the camera here and trying to help parents, through coaching and things like that. But I'm not in the classroom anymore, so you know, and as you are not in the classroom as well. So the daily thing, but you're in touch with all these parents and so you have

better insight.

Well, and I'm actually in the classroom.

You're still there?

I am. I'm actually doing a so I live in western Kansas and I just contracted I like to stay kind of current and so I just contracted to do a travel teaching job in North Denver. So I travel to Denver every week and I teach seventh grade as a learning specialist just for a contract position, there's such a shortage in special education that, you know, it's kinda like the the mafia. They every time you get out they pull you back in. And so yeah, so I'm doing that right now as

well and because I just I really you know I do like

Holy cow.

to be in touch with the families yeah I'm doing I'm doing a lot so but I am I'm literally from my hotel room right now like I I come up here every week to Denver and I teach in a school in North Denver and

Wow.

come back to Kansas so I'm balancing it all from my little my little

That's incredible.

computer I mean thank god for technology right

Yeah.

Yeah. absolutely. Yeah. It allows us to do

So can do everything on their own, yep.

a lot more and be a lot of different places. So is that a full year situation? You're gonna be doing that for the entire year or is it contract a temporary

It very well could it very well could

it very well could be a a full year. Yep. It's one of those things where there's just like I said, there's just shortages and so I'm working with a company that usually hires like healthcare providers, but they hire special education teachers, speech pathologists, school psychologists and all of the people to come and do related services. And so, yep, I just thought, you know what, I'm gonna get back out there and

I took some time off and did advocacy and and have been working with families kind of in the capacity that you have been. And I wanted to get back out there and just make sure that, you know, what I'm seeing is still current and it is. And so yeah. And I like it. I like working with the kids.

Hmm. That's just amazing.

I like interacting with them as well. So

Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's

always the best that was always the best part. For me was always, you know, working with the kids, you know. The the adults

Exactly. Exactly. Right.

were always the thing that dampened the experience typically. Not always, but oftentimes, you know.

Yep. Yes. No, but that's so true. Yes.

Yeah. But that's an amazing dedication.

And holy cow, good for you. really, really impressive

Thanks.

So why Denver?

So out in western Kansas where we live,

my husband's a teacher as well and he coaches basketball and we live out there, And so Denver's the closest, major city to where we are.

So

okay,

Did you grow up in that environment?

I actually grew up in

okay.

around the Lake of the Ozarks area in Missouri. And so

moved to Kansas when I met and married my husband. And so he's he's a Kansas boy, so that's why we're in Kansas. He's a he's a

Okay, gotcha.

a small town Kansas guy.

flag. Yep.

So that being said, that you're back in teaching, you have had

Yes.

quite a diverse range of experiences in the special education world. So from being the teacher, being the consultant, being the advocate, being the guardian of a sibling. Could take us back a little bit, tell us about yourself and some of those experiences that shaped where you are today.

Sure, absolutely. So, like I said, I grew up in Missouri in a small town called Lebanon. And I watched my mom, who adopted us, by the way. My siblings and I were adopted. I was adopted when I was about five years old. And so we were all adopted, and that's why foster care and adoption are very near and dear to my heart, which we can talk about later. But

I grew up watching my mom advocate fiercely for my sister with an intellectual disability. And she's eight years younger than me. So I was, you know, of a impressionable age when my sister was little and watching my mom, you know, back in those days, and I'm talking like the late eighties, early nineties, special education was kind of a double wide trailer behind the school building. And that's where kids would go. So if you didn't get a certain test score or if you didn't, measure up to certain standards.

you would get to go to the trailer behind the school. And that's where you received your education. And so it was a lot more segregated. And watching my mom have lots of conversations with the school to make sure my sister was included in things and make sure she got her support services and opportunities. And, you know, for to watch that story unfold to the time my sister graduated from high school and was in mostly you know, inclusive classrooms and

very much a part of things, very much a part of her you know, her least restrictive environment changed tremendously over the course of like from second grade on up to when she graduated high school. And I a lot of that advocacy and a lot of that passion for special education came from watching my mom as a parent, you know, just around the kitchen table, just being frustrated or being

overwhelmed with the system and the process. So it inspired me. Yeah.

Okay. That's amazing

because you know, not everybody has that tendency to be drawn to something like that because it can be a little overwhelming but having that experience, I think that helps you as a professional because you have that insight and I think that you bring that and I think that helps develop the trust with the people that you're working with too. Do you find that?

Yes, I absolutely do. And whenever I make a video or content or do trainings or work with a family one on one or teach school or sit at an IEP table, I think about my mom at the kitchen table and I think about

What it was like from that perspective of a parent who's tired, who's frustrated, who's overwhelmed. I think of people being real people. These are real lives, these are real kids with real challenges that somebody lives with 24-7. And how do we communicate as real people and not processes and procedures and data points? And, so many times in the special education world, you

Get so fixated on the things that you have to say, quote unquote, have to say in a meeting, or the data points you have to hit, or the charts and the graphs and the the things that you want to go over that you forget you're sitting with real people having conversations about the most important person in their life. And sometimes you're talking about very sensitive, material and very sensitive.

attributes of the most important person of their life and it can be emotional for the parent. And so that's who I want to speak to. I want to speak to the parent who feels just absolutely tired from the process and tired from carrying it all. And just to let them know they're not by themselves and that they don't have to have all the answers that you just keep showing up for your kiddo and there's people like us that will, be right there with you in the trenches. So.

help pick you back up and give you that energy that you need to

Absolutely.

fight for what your rights are. And that's it's so

Yes.

true. And I know that on the other end and we're gonna get into this more but I know on the other end, you know with the schools, for the most part you're gonna find compassionate people that want to do the right thing. But

Mm-hmm.

a lot of times their hands are tied or

sometimes they're just you know they don't have a great attitude you're gonna find a a variety of it and so if you're lucky you're gonna get those compassionate people that see the person and how do we get that to happen when we're not necessarily dealing with somebody who it has that natural kind of incentive to to work with us because they don't have that sensitivity,

Right.

So I

Want to go into this and this is a good segue, but I want to make sure I get the rest of your background because you became the guardian of your sister, and I'll I'll

Yes.

get back to this question about setting the stage for the meeting itself and the confrontation

Mm-hmm.

or lack thereof. but if you could just fill in a little bit more about that aspect, just quick, I'm just curious about your sister and your relationship.

Sure. so my mom was her legal guardian after she graduated high school. My my parents were both, and they passed away. So they both passed away, and that's how I became her guardian. it was but for years they as adults were her guardian when she was an adult out of high school. And so I don't think that's an aspect that people think about a lot is that children who are going to need a lifetime guardian.

parents not only have to think about getting them through their school years and getting them through, zero to eighteen, they have to also think about what happens after eighteen, what happens long term. Where's that person with a disability going to live and who are they gonna live with and who's gonna help take care of them? And I don't know necessarily statistic-wise, but I know a lot of times caregiving does fall on family members and often siblings. So

And that's just kind of how it happened for us. But my sister and I have a really good relationship. I try very hard to get her all of the supports and things in place that I can be her sister first and her guardian second, because I like being her sister and I don't want it to be, you know.

a thing that comes between us in our relationship. Sometimes I'm the bossy older sister and you know that can be kind of annoying to

Ha ha.

her just like it would be for anybody. But I think for the most part, you know, I have case management for her and I have support systems for her and she has a center where she can go and do social activities and

We're working on getting her employment and things like that. And so it's been this is the second year that I've been her full-time guardian, and it's been really eye-opening for me personally, to experience it from this lens because I've worked with parents for so many years of children with disabilities, and I was a mom to three sons that we adopted from foster care. So

I've seen firsthand the struggles from the parent side, just being a parent myself, but I haven't experienced, I guess, the bureaucracy of a system of trying to get somebody all of the benefits and services needed until I became the guardian of my sister, if that makes sense. So yep, once I became her guardian, I started to have to fill out the mountains of paperwork and do the, you know, court updates every year and do all of the Medicaid and Medicare and all the

You know, I heard somebody on your podcast recently say, Yep, you know, my son still has Down syndrome every single year. Well, yep, that's true. My sister still has an intellectual disability every single year. It doesn't go

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Every year.

away, yeah, every year, and we still fill out the mountains of paperwork. So, but it's it's been an adjustment for our family to have my sister in our lives in that capacity. But it's been a a good journey for both of us and her life is very happy and very meaningful right now and I'm just glad to be

Yeah.

Well.

Yeah, that's wonderful of you to that you do that. I kinda wanted to go into that a little bit more to set the stage for the conversation. And I don't know if it's best to have it now or we could do it do it after, but the idea of the changes to Medicaid and the changes to services and family caregivers and things like that and how

Yeah.

maybe that's impacting how you are living with your sister and how you're supporting your sister and maybe it's just some thoughts you have about that. Maybe we'll just do that now.

Get that out of the way and then we can jump back into the the IEPs, if you don't mind.

So far,

no, you're fine, but so far I will say, so far, overall, it has not impacted her yet. So things haven't trickled down yet. it's something we're keeping a very close eye on. It's something that you know we are very much concerned with and watching legislation on because much like any changes in government and policy

These things do affect the people that we love and the people that we care for and and often affect the most vulnerable people. So it's something that we're continuing to keep an eye on, for sure. Yep.

Okay. Yeah, because a

lot of these things haven't been rolled out yet, but they they're expected to roll out, so we don't know exactly what

Right. Yes.

the full impact is, but we can we can speculate on what there's been plenty of speculation on what it could be and how it can impact people. Right. Okay. So you're kind of on on hold right now.

Right. Right. And you know, she's I'm

kind of on hold with it right now just because, you know, my sister's in a good position where, if there were cuts, we could help her until we, you know, figure things out. However

Not everybody's in that situation. And

Yeah.

again, most vulnerable people, they don't they don't have that support system and so n a lot of times they don't have that luxury. And so yeah, it's something we're keeping a a close eye on and watching things unfold very closely.

So if you're housing

if you're housing your sibling and they're gonna charge you room for rent and take that out of their at their SSI and things like that, then that's you know, now we're talking about we don't have enough money to be able to buy the resources that we need to be able to manage. Yeah.

Right. Absolutely right.

And right now, you know, my sister's whole existence depends on her SSI check. And, you know, if that were to dwindle and go away, then that's a whole burden that my husband and I would have to, you know, come up with ourselves for another person in our family. And you know, it's difficult because it isn't like she can just

you know, pull herself up by the bootstraps and go to work. It's yeah. You know, we're we're working

Work, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

on we're working on getting her a job through her agency to work part time, but she doesn't have the capacity to work in the same sense as somebody without a disability would. So that is her source of income. Yep.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well, I appreciate you sharing that. I know it's

Yeah.

very personal. I just, you know, it it's it's impacting people in different ways. And like you said, socioeconomic and all those types of different ways that it that it's impacting people. And I just kind of want to get a flavor and take the temperature of the room right now because these things are still in the air and you know they're they're threatening and they could jeopardize a lot of people's lives and support. So thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, no doubt.

So is the stage set in a sense already for confrontation, or do you find that with your experience, like has it grown to that now? Like parents come ready to kind of attack and schools come ready to be defensive? Or is is it something that kind of builds over time with the fact that the parents aren't getting what they need? The school's trying to force them to accept what they can offer, they're not offering the

resources and and the services that the parents feel their child is deserving.

Yeah.

what so just kind of what your take is on that. How do we enter these meetings these days?

That is a fantastic question and one that I spend a lot of time thinking about, Mark. the thing that I'm seeing from different angles here, first I'll I'll address this from the side of an educator.

You know, parents are kind of coming in hotter these days in the sense that they either bring advocates to the table, which obviously I think parents should be the number one advocate for their child, and I also think that they should get the support that they need. But sometimes the advocates are coming in very confrontational. I think I said, you know, they're bringing in a hammer when a fly swatter could do, right? Sometimes sometimes you don't need to come in so

Yes.

strongly because I

really believe in relationship building and I really believe that those conversations can be more productive sometimes because I think when a when a parent brings in an advocate or a parent comes in hot, it just sort of makes the school shut down and or makes the school buckle up and just brace themselves for a conflict and it right off the bat, right out of the gate.

That's not the right foot to start on. And we lose sight of who we're doing this for, which is the child. And we lose sight of the fact that we're all on the same team here for the child. We're we're team child here. That is that is the team we're all on, same team. And we lose sight of that. And then from a parent's perspective, I think with you know school funding and the load that is on school districts and

staffing issues and all of the things that go into I think services are, you know, not always being met the way they should. And parents are absolutely right to come in asking the questions they ask. And sometimes schools aren't doing right by their children. And so I think all of these things create a climate for conflict. And I really believe that, you know, to collaborate, we don't have to agree on everything. Collaboration doesn't mean agreeing on everything. I think we can come

to the table with disagreement respectfully and come to the table and work on working out what's best for the child without necessarily creating a huge conflict because it doesn't benefit the child when we do that.

Yeah.

Well said and so true. So what do you think, and I don't expect you to have the answers, but if there's a way to prepare for these meetings better,

Mm-hmm.

right?

To kind of soften that confrontation so we're not looking at each other as the enemy. is there something? Because I know when I was teaching, we would have a pre-meeting with the families just to kind of

Mm-hmm.

give them an idea of where we were going and get their concerns and things like that. So when we actually sat down at the table for the CSE to talk about the IEP there was already some pre-knowledge. And so we kind of knew where the parents' concerns were, or if they weren't educated enough.

To know even what to ask, and I know that's where an advocate comes in.

Mm-hmm.

What do you see as a possible solution to the problem of these confrontations because the services aren't always being, if they're on the IEP they may not be being provided correctly, et cetera, So I'll let you speak.

Right. Yeah.

No, I think I I think one thing going into the meetings, I think would be important for parents to have really one thing that they want to focus on, one thing just focus on what you want an answer to. What's the what's the thing that you would really want to go away with having a rel resolution to right now that you can focus on with the school that you can ask questions about instead of trying to solve all the problems? What's one area? Maybe it's academics, maybe it's social emotional, maybe it's

behavioral, but what is the area that you really want to focus in on and start there and start with that conversation and see if you can get some resolution with that and then kind of work your way toward other areas in the in the IEP meeting. I think pre-meetings are wonderful ideas. I think having an IEP draft to the parents ahead of time so they can read and also

Making sure to give them plenty of opportunities to know they're just as important of a member of the IEP team as anybody, and they know their child better than anyone else. And their voice matters and their feedback matters. I think sometimes parents feel like they're sitting in a room full of psychologists and teachers and administrators and all the allologists and all the letters behind their names, and parents forget, you know what.

The thing is, you know your child better than anyone. And you deserve that seat at

Yeah.

the table to be able to talk about your child and

You're the expert on your child, and you don't have to have all the answers. You don't even have to have all the questions. You just need to go show up for your child and have like one topic, one area that you want to focus in on. And the best phrase that I recommend to parents is help me understand. Go into the school and say, Help me understand why my student isn't getting their reading support minutes. Help me understand why the behavior

Isn't being followed? Can you help me understand? And I think if you go in with that type of approach, schools

Let their guard down a little bit. And schools are just gonna be like, okay, let this parent is seeking first to understand and let's work with them. But I don't think the burden is just on the parent to do that either. I think schools need to take the approach with parents. Help us understand what you're seeing at home. Help us understand what you've tried. Help us understand what we're missing. Because a lot of times schools are doing the best they can, but there's not a lot of communication with parents, and schools are trying to reach out to parents, but we're not getting a

Lot of you know reciprocation with that communication, and so just making sure that the communicational lines are open, both parties are willing to listen first, seek to understand before being understood, and know that you're just on the same team playing for the same goal, and that goal is what's best for the child.

Right. And really it letting parents understand that they're the equal. These people may have letters

Mm-hmm.

behind their names, but they are experts in their area, right? And you're the expert

Yeah. Right.

in your area, your child, but

Yes.

it is very can be a very intimidating thing to walk into

Yeah.

a room surrounded by all these people. And especially for new parents, and then for

Yes.

people who are that's not their natural language, English, and so it's easier to kind of get walked over and just they accept,

Yeah.

they accept, they accept.

a lot of people come from countries that are just very respectful of the people in authority, so whatever you say is gonna be the way it's gonna be and they don't know enough.

when you're talking to these parents who are kind of hot, you must meet parents that are already at that place where they're hot, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So do you use that phrase with them and say this is how we're gonna go into it to start? Because we can always escalate, but if we start at the top, there's nowhere to go from there, right?

Right.

So how do we begin? And that's how are you able to convince these families pretty well to okay, put your anger aside for a bit and let's kind of be

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

constructive. Because yes, the burden does seem to fall a lot on the families, but it has to be shared.

I think most of the time, I would say nine times out of ten.

Parents want someone to listen. They want someone to listen to their concerns. They feel like they've taken their concerns somewhere and they haven't been heard. They want to be understood. They want to be heard. And when parents come to me or talk to me, I listen first. I just listen first, validate what they're saying, and understand what they're saying so that I know when we have conversations with schools what we need to ask for, what we need to clarify.

Oftentimes, here's an example. I had a parent last week, and this is from the capacity of being a special education teacher doing my travel teaching assignment. I had a parent last week send me an email that was like written by AI and it was in legalese, right? And it was talking about how the accommodations aren't being met and how they want to have a meeting and you know, all of these things. The parent comes in for a meeting and

And I showed them how we're meeting the accommodations. I showed them what we're doing. I showed them and I talked to them a little bit more about how I'm engaging with their child, what I'm doing in the classrooms with their child, you know, how I'm co-teaching certain classes. And and once the parents saw all of that, they said, because that's not what my child said. I said, Well.

You know, sometimes children don't always tell us the whole story. but you know, the if you just looked at face value at the parents email, the email seemed pretty, pretty hot. And it would be easy for a less experienced educator or somebody who took that personally as a personal affront to say, whoa,

This parent is out of control. No, that parent just wants to make sure that the right things are happening for their child and they just went about it kind of in the wrong approach. And that's where I think advocates really help because a good advocate isn't gonna be there to cause conflict. A good advocate is gonna be there to say, okay, what do we need to ask for? How do we need to get the things that your child needs in order to be successful?

How do we work with and build relationships with the school district and all of the, key players here? Because if you don't build the relationships, I'm really big on that. If you don't build the relationships, I mean it's just, it's not gonna happen. And when those relationships are already, when things are already tense and emotions are already high.

I really think that both sides just really have to step back for a second, think about the other person's perspective. And I know that's really difficult. And I've had parents say to me, I've had parents say to me, but you don't understand. You don't understand what has happened to my child. My child hasn't gotten this. My child, you know, and they're not wrong. They're not wrong. What is what is happening to their child absolutely needs to be fixed.

But we're also dealing with systems that involve human beings and administrators and teachers that are doing the best that they can. And we, like you said, there are so many good teachers and good related service providers and administrators that really do care about kids and want what's best, that I don't want to lose sight of the fact that the ones that are not are less than.

the ones that are good out there. So there are a lot of good ones.

More in the minority, is what you're saying. Yeah,

They're more of them. Yes, exactly. The ones that are

not doing right by kids are probably more of the minority, I would say. And we want to keep that in mind. At the same time, I really do feel like schools lose sight of what it's like to be that parent sitting at the table. some people sitting at the table have never experienced what it's like to have a child with special needs, a child with a disability. And so

I often see when I'm working with colleagues who have experienced that in their own lives or have experience similar or maybe with a family member, something like that, they're much more compassionate, much more sensitive to the topics that the parent wants to discuss because they know firsthand what it's like. And if you don't have that experience, you just have to find it within yourself to try to think what it might be like and ask those questions. Ask the parent, you know, help.

Help understand. That's the phrase I always go to is help me understand.

Yeah. I

think that's great. because I think that, we wanna hold both sides accountable. And you're right. because I think there's a certain if I think back about it, my uncle was a paraplegic, I grew up with him, my cousin, who I saw infrequently, is deaf. So I had exposure to people dealing with different disabilities in their life. but it wasn't like I was living on a daily basis and I wasn't taking care of these people.

And so think that there's a bit of an arrogance that comes with up being in a profession where you know so much about the profession and what you're supposed to do that you almost assume knowledge of what the other side is going through, right? Because I'm in it, because I'm a special ed teacher, so obviously I know and you don't, you know? And so for me it wasn't until I got to go into the homes of these families, and see what they're living like on a daily basis. You can make assumptions and you get

And pieces as a teacher, but until you

Mm-hmm.

really know. So there can be that little bit of an arrogance, I think, with an administration where okay, well, this is the standards, and this is what we know, and this is how we work, and this is the system, and this is this is these are the rules, right?

Right.

we need to lead with our humanity, right? So we need

Mm-hmm.

to accept that I'm human and you're human. We need to see each other like that. We're just people with knowledge that we can share, right? Now let's shape that knowledge that's going to be to the best benefit of your child.

Absolutely. And I I think that administrators and teachers kind of get squeezed in the middle because, you know, systemically, educators aren't treated as the professionals that we are by legislators, by the government,

We're not treated as the same level of professionalism as people in other fields. And we have to require so much more education to do what we do than a lot of other fields, but we don't get the same level of respect. And I think that kind of breeds a chip on our shoulder sometimes because we come into it thinking, gosh, you know, we feel we don't always feel respected and we don't always feel appreciated and our paychecks don't always show the appreciation. And so as educators, sometimes we think, gosh, you know, we're

We're not appreciated enough, we're underpaid in this position. we we put up with all of these things, they always put more on our plate. And so when we come to a meeting and someone's already mad at us, it's really difficult to step back and go, you know what, I want to see their perspective. It's it's very difficult when you don't have that respect from above. And that goes for I mean, it it kind of goes all the way up the food chain. And I think if there was more respect in America

for ad administrators and teachers more respect like it used to be in this country. I mean, teachers used to be, it used to be a respected profession. And now people are leaving in droves. I mean, that is why there are so many positions open and especially in special education. So we've got our most vulnerable children not having consistent people in their lives that are there to teach them because I mean the burnout rate, it's less than five years.

people stay in. I mean you stayed in for 30 years and

people aren't staying in very long. I'm working right now with a a first year teacher and you know you come out of college with all these hopes and dreams and you're gonna change the world and help children and and then you come in and you realize that goodness there's a lot that just kind of pushes you back and it can be defeating.

And it can

Yeah.

it can lack reward. And the typical messages that you get from the school district, you know, self-care and remember your why. It almost just kinda feels like fluff that, you know, does yeah, it really does. And yeah, it really does. And so I

insulting it

mean

It's like you have to come up with this intrinsic reward, right?

Right.

And

I agree with everything you said a thousand percent and I teachers know from my podcast, they know I'm on their side, they know I fight for teachers, I know they know that I know that they're underpaid, overworked, they're asked to do more and more and more and more, they get less and less respect now. Everything you said, I agree with a thousand percent. And when I said the arrogance of it, I meant just the administration kind of being that extra step removed. I wasn't even talking about the teachers, I'm talking about the administration

Mm-hmm.

being that extra step removed unless they're experiencing it themselves and

You what fortunately I had one great principal who became superintendent who had an autistic son, so he understood and he was able to come with that humanity, and that was different than some of the other people. But a thousand percent with the teachers. And I think that it's so imbalanced in this country what they expected to do and how little respect they get. and all you need is a little bit of a pat in the back, doing a great job, you know, a little bit extra money just to say this is what you actually.

actually deserve over you know Juan Soto who just got you know gets thirty five billion dollars a a year You know nothing against Juto, just baseball, you know.

Yes, exactly right. Right. I know, exactly.

Can you imagine somebody telling him, remember your why, you know? yeah. Millions of reasons to remember my why. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Uh-huh. Yeah, no. Right, remember my back as I walk away because that's what they're gonna do, you know? And

And

unfortunately that's what teachers are doing. And like you said, it's it used to take a little while for teachers You come in with that excitement, enthusiasm, that change the world perspective, like

Mm-hmm.

you said, and that lasts for a little while. But now, talk about a fly squatter and a hammer, you know, it's like

Yeah.

boom, that hammer comes down really hard really fast when you're

Yes.

thrown underwater so quickly. You s

Yes. I mean we're

we're drowning in paperwork, we're drowning in, bureaucracy and red tape and we're we're just trying to do right by students. And I I really worry about the future of special education without good quality special educators that are coming in the next generation. I mean I I worry about our children. Yeah.

I agree,

I agree, and and and the burdens being put on regular ed teachers that aren't trained. And so now

Mm-hmm. Right.

you're supposed to be able to manage that, and then there's resentment on their part. So it's just it's just a horrible, horrible cycle and just

Mm-hmm.

the machine is just so broken.

I I

Right.

do you have do you have any thoughts about from w cause you're in it now again seeing things.

Yeah.

Do you have any thoughts about the future about I know you say you're concerned, but are there ways that we might be able to to improve this? I mean starting with the school and public perception, but the school and the parents

Yeah.

coordinating together because the team is everything. I you know, I talk to the parents that I work with, they have to be invited in, you have to feel

Right.

a part of that team. And

And it has to be more than one or two meetings a year, as far as I'm concerned. It's a lot for the teachers, but I feel like you need to check in more frequently. And that's a lot, I get it. What do you think? What's your feeling of that?

Right. I think partnerships,

partnerships between families and and and school districts.

We have different councils where parents and special educators can collaborate and come together. It's called CIAC, and I can't remember what the acronym exactly stands for, but other states may have something like it where there are parent groups that can kind of come in, talk to educators and have these candid conversations. I think that's where it starts. I think a few families and school district members getting together and talking about how we can bridge those gaps. And I think advocates being at the table too.

Would be a good idea. I think I I would love it if advocates could come into a school and districts weren't like, no, they have an advocate. Because that's what I hear, you know? no. Like

Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm sure.

they almost feel like it's a lost cause when a family has an advocate and you have to surprise them by being human and not coming in confrontationally. I I think overall it just really takes.

Someone to bridge that gap. And I think if we could look at advocacy from the standpoint of parents are advocates, school members are advocates, those of us that work behind the scenes and in different capacities are advocates for our most vulnerable children. We all have the same goal in mind and keep that goal at the forefront. I mean, I think that's the only way to do it. And again, just have those conversations.

Yeah, and I think if we look at advocates as those people that are helping to educate and prepare the parents, not for battle, but to be able to have

Right.

a very constructive conversation with

Right.

knowledge to be able to add and go back and forth and say, okay, well let's talk about each service that's being on the that's on the table and each goal that we want and be able to actually have that conversation with some knowledge as opposed to just trusting or and then finding you know you're not satisfied with the decisions are and then

you get angry and then and then at the snowballs. But I

Absolutely.

think advocates can be that support, be seen like that, because it's almost like they're a step away from looking at them as they've lawyered up, you know, the advocates there. You know.

Exactly. That's exactly right. And I just don't

I don't approach it that way whatsoever. And and it may not be the most lucrative way to look at this situation for myself, but I will not look at it another way.

That is how I pursue advocacy. I want, to come to the table with a family and be that liaison between them and the district, having sat on both sides of the table to be able to say it almost like a translator. Almost when I have a family that has English as their second language or their primary languages and is something else. I want

to be that translator that comes in between the parent and the school and says, I think this is what they're saying. It's just to mediate that because it doesn't have to be an ugly conversation.

Absolutely. Yeah, no, I love that. I maybe you should train advocates. Maybe you should be an advocate trainer. Yeah.

I would love to. I would love to.

Yeah. I'm so happy to have you on with that message, you know, so other advocates can hear it as well. And always want parents to know that the advocates are available to them and that it's there.

So the advocates as liaisons between and to empower parents not to militarize them, coming into in a sense, right?

Exactly.

And schools being more open to being that team. And I think that needs to be done from the start. And how we go about doing that, you can interpret it in many different ways as far as how that process should work. But I really do think we need to put a focus on that process at the beginning of

Mm-hmm.

every school year. There's so much. I mean it's almost impossible really. We talk about all these things we want changes. The i the it's such a huge, huge thing that with so many things to to fine-tune and to fix.

Mm-hmm.

But I feel like that's the core.

Right? That's the core. If we're not working on this as a team, I'm not just putting my kid in a school and trusting you all day, and some people are. But the school

Right. Right.

needs to take that initiative and say, okay, so this is the program we have to better the communication between the two of us, and

Right.

this is what's gonna happen.

And you know, that's a

that's a wonderful point too. I always, as a special educator, say to my parents from the the table of the special educator, I always say if a parent comes into an IEP meeting and says to me, you know, I have questions or I have concerns, I say thank you for advocating for your child. I appreciate you advocating for your child. And I have always said that in my career as a special educator. I want parents to speak up. I want them to feel comfortable because as an advocate, the thing that I hear from parents most often

Is I want an advocate. I I have questions. I have concerns, but I don't want to rock the boat with the school district. I don't want to ruin the relationship. I don't want to ask too many questions because, you know, I have to see them every day in the pickup line. And I have to, you know, I don't want to have a tense relationship. And if I get an advocate, it's just immediately gonna be tense. And I wanna dispel the myth that it has to be like that. I want there to be this middle ground where no advocates are educators as well. We're just

educating from within and that's the other thing too about advocacy. I think you know it's kind of a broad term. Anybody can say they're an advocate and anybody can and do this kind of work and I think it really takes some vetting to figure out who you have as an advocate and why you have chosen to work with that person because not all advocates

Right.

are necessarily coming at it from the same approach. So

Absolutely.

And I remember at some meetings parents had another parent who

Right.

basically stood in as the advocate for the parent at a meeting, And I don't know what they did prior to that in consultation, or if they were just there in case something came up that they noticed that they could inform the parent on in the in the moment. So that's all well and good and it's better than nothing, but it's not the kind of advocacy that you're talking about and the type of person you are. there's a couple other things I want to get into, but

talk about

Empowered to Thrive

Talk about that because I don't want to lose lose sight of that your your your company here. Let's talk about it a little bit.

Yeah. No. So

we just help families understand and navigate special education and we want to promote positive collaborative relationships between families and schools. And again, that's the kind of advocacy that we do. We want parents to have a trusted professional in their corner. they we want them to understand their options, what to ask for, and to feel confident participating in decisions about their child's education. So if

If you know somebody works with Empowered to Thrive consulting, if they hire us to be an advocate, that is what we do. we also do one-on-one sessions. So sometimes parents just need someone to work with their child on executive functioning, somebody to work with their child on specific skills, somebody to work with their child on

Sometimes even academics, but for the most part, it's a systemic, holistic approach that we take to help the whole family. So we wrap around the family. That's our goal. Not just coming in with advocacy, but also training, getting families in touch with resources in their area, and talking to schools on their behalf, but that's that's kind of what we do.

And I I started that because like probably like you as an educator, I wanted to do more. Like I was limited and kind of constrained on what I could do inside the confines of a school system and I wanted to do more for families. I have all these great relationships with families, but I didn't have a way to do that inside the confines of a school system. And so when I'm kinda working for myself, I can do that more. That gives me a freedom and a flexibility

Absolutely.

to do that for for families.

Yeah, no, it's it's wonderful. I mean to me the most rewarding thing now, I mean I always loved working with the kids, but now you're working from the top down, you know, working with the parents because there really is a lot of desperation there and a lot of need and all of it very, very worthy of the stress levels that they're at. I mean, it's a lot that they're being asked to do and so to be able to help them out is is an amazing thing and so I'm grateful for people like you because you also have a heart, you know, so it's like I see your humanity and

Thanks.

that comes across in your posts and your like I said, your intelligence, your knowledge comes across in your posts. And you're just like you're reaching across to be like and feel you're reaching across to talk to people. You're not talking at people and that's one of the things that, you know, along with a lot a lot of the other elements and aspects of you and your presentation that drew me to you.

Now meeting you in person, it's even more wonderful. I think you're just such a delightful person.

thanks. Thank you. Thanks.

what I wanted to ask you about when schools say that there's like a teacher shortage going on, so you know

Mm-hmm.

we're not we can't provide those services necessarily because we have a teacher shortage.

you have rights and that's not part of what they're allowed to do. How do you approach that? Have you come

You you no.

up across that? Have you come across that?

well you just have to say it. You just have to say to the schools, you know, I understand that you're having trouble staffing your positions, but unfortunately your staffing shortages

Don't make up for the lack of services for this child. This child has legal rights. This child has legal protections. And you're gonna have to find creative ways. You're gonna have to dig deep. You're gonna have to look at what you already have to work with. You're gonna have to make administrative decisions, but you have to meet the needs of this child. That is their legal right. It is not a suggestion, it's not an option, it's their legal right. And you know, you can say that in a way that doesn't necessarily

mean an affront or an attack. It can be just I mean sometimes schools really don't know what to do when they I mean they're doing the best they can. Administrators have interviews and they have, you know, they're they're trying really hard to fill positions and they're trying really hard to get everything to work logistically and schedule wise and they're they're doing their best. And they're pinched in the middle too and they're they're doing their best. But

The child has legal rights and we always want to keep the child at the forefront of the conversation. Nothing else, the child and the child's needs and the child's protections. And oftentimes it might mean suggesting to a school, okay, look, let's sit down and look at what you have to work with here. How could we get creative with meeting these minutes? How could we get creative with meeting these services? What staff do you already have? how could we include this student over here?

Sit down and try to help them problem solve sometimes. Sometimes administrators or educators don't think about it in terms of how could we think outside the box and get creative, how could we meet the needs for this child? Because maybe this child has a unique set of circumstances that they haven't encountered before.

And they just don't know how to make it work with the current staff that they have or the current paradigm of how they're doing things. And so sometimes it just takes some suggestions and some brainstorming and helping them see, you know, we're not asking you to do the impossible, but we're asking you to be flexible and we're asking you to be a little more giving in terms of what you're willing to attempt or try to meet the needs for this child.

Yeah, we know that schools and administrations there's constraints on them and things like that that they have to worry about and they're kind of stuck and sometimes they don't have the flexibility. But that's just exactly what we're talking about, the whole overall theme of that teamwork. It's like, well I have a resource across the table for me, somebody who knows their kid. How best can we take what you know and adapt our program around that and find those fits? And so yeah, it's work, you know, and I think that that sometimes is another reason why things don't get done because it's like that means

I have to do extra this and extra that.

Right.

And so that can turn people off. You know? And like,

Exactly.

and that puts people back on their heels immediately because they're like, God, this isn't gonna be easy. Now I gotta do more,

It's also having those conversations with parents that they may not always get everything they want either.

The goal is to get what the child needs in order to be successful. Not all of the parents' preferences, not all of the parents' desires, not all of the parents' wants are gonna go into this. there's been a lot of times that I've had parents say, I want a one-on-one para for my child. I want somebody with my child the whole entire day. I want this for my child. And, you know, that's not the least restrictive environment for your child. And I can advocate for why that's not. And so sometimes it's going back to the parent and say, hey, you know what?

I I think you're coming from a good place of asking for something for your child, but that may not necessarily be what your child needs. And in an IEP meeting, we need to have those conversations. So we need to be okay with again compromising and collaborating doesn't have to look like agreement. We don't always have to agree it with everything. We don't always have to, you know, we have to go in and collaborate and keep that at the forefront of what we're doing.

That's a great point because we are gonna disagree on things. We don't have to, but let's let me try to find some common ground and see what we can do that make it work, right? Yeah. thank you for sharing that. The last thing I want to do before we go is I have some

Yeah.

quick rapid fire fly swatter or hammer.

Okay. All right, we'll try it. We'll see.

We'll try it. So you can give me the one answer and maybe like a quick follow-up as to why.

Okay. Okay.

We don't have to go too deep. okay.

So fly swatter or hammer, a teacher forgot an accommodation once.

fly swatter. Give the teacher some grace. We'll get it right.

Great. School repeatedly isn't providing a related service.

hammer. We might have to go in with a hammer on this one if the school continually isn't isn't providing that. I mean maybe we start with the fly swatter, but if this is a pattern, we might need a hammer. It just depends. I might exactly

Keep the hammer in your tool belt just ready.

Ready to come down. your child is being disciplined for behavior related to their disability. I think we know the answer to this one.

Yes.

man, we gotta hammer home that behavior plan and make sure that it's being followed for sure. So yep.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

I mean the schools need to follow the behavior

plan, yes, and implement that for sure.

Right. And be aware of why the behavior's happening or possible reasons why.

Exactly. Exactly.

the school says they don't have enough staff. We just went over this one, so but

we did.

I'm curious, what would you say?

I mean, first go in with a fly swatter and say, hey, I realize that you're short-staffed. Let's think of some creative ways. That would be my fly swatter in that situation.

Okay, that's a good fly swatter. it felt like a fly swatter 'cause it's cooperative. Yeah.

Right. I mean you're still getting

the job done. You just you know, you're not leaving big holes everywhere.

Yeah.

Exactly. you disagree with the proposed IEP.

Gosh, I mean, start with a fly swatter on this one. I it that might be a simple thing to fix. You disagree with the proposed IEP, you might have a perspective the school just needs you to explain. And once you do, the school's like, gosh, we totally missed that. And you rewrite a different draft and you come up with something that you can both agree on. So start with a fly swatter

Mm-hmm.

on that. Don't go in with a hammer right away.

And one more, so it's not exhausted from all these. One more. and I think this is I'm curious about your answer on this one. because where do we go from this point? So the the the the scenario is you've asked for a meeting and the school isn't responding.

have you asked once or have you asked many times? because each

Let's try both scenarios.

Okay, so if you've asked once, you might go in with a fly swatter. Maybe somebody got busy drop the ball. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

But if you've asked repeatedly, it's time to go in with a hammer because they're they're ghosting you and that's not okay. So that would be when a hammer is involved. I mean, there are times when, the necessary tools need to be used. don't

Mm-hmm.

get me wrong, there are times when you need to go in with the hammer, but don't

Don't always need to start with the hammer. Let's let's start with the the gentler tools and see if we can get it done before we have to go to the hammer. But multiple times you've asked the school, let's go to the hammer. So.

Okay, sounds right to me. I agree with that.

okay, so if you could have one educator, one parent, one advocate listening to this conversation right now, what's one thing you would want each of them to understand about the other two and ultimately about what it means to truly be on the same team for the child?

Okay, so I've got one one educator, one advocate, and one parent. I would say to the parent, I'd want you to I would want you to know that your educator is tirelessly working for your child and puts in a lot of hours, puts in a lot of time pouring over the paperwork, pouring over the data, pouring into teaching the lessons and

Spending time with your child and they're doing the best they can. Help them, help them see what they're missing. they're only human and they're doing the best they can. I think teachers are rock stars, so help help them, help them out. We need them in this profession. And to the educator, I would say, hey, when you see that parent at your IEP meeting.

That is a a parent that is exhausted by a system that is overwhelming. They have a child who has the kind of needs that

open wounds every time they have to talk about because it's emotional and it's difficult and they're not just dealing with this child's needs for eight hours a day or for a couple hours a day. This is 24-7 for them. They're the expert on their child and so have some respect for the parent. When you go into that meeting understand that that parent is bringing you the most important thing that they have which is their child. They're giving you and trusting you with the most important thing they have every day. So treat it accordingly. That's what I would say. Listen

The parent they know their child, and to the advocate, I would say, come to the table with the spirit of wanting to build relationships and come to the table with the understanding that if you want to succeed, the goal is to make sure that this team functions as a team, that the school, that the parent.

come together and do what's right for the child. The goal is not to shout the loudest, scream the loudest. The goal is to bring this team together and help this team function for the greater good of the child. So that was kind of long, but that's what I would say.

I've never I've never I've never applauded on this

but I know how important this whole

Yeah.

collaboration is. And so thank you for saying it was so wonderfully stated and clear and I hope that people will

take notice of what you say and I I hope that people will listen to what we're talking about today. It's been such a delight to meet you

Thank you.

and really, really thanks so much for your just casual, wonderful,

Yeah.

easy conversation. I'd really, really enjoyed it.

I have really loved being here, Mark. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

it's my pleasure. And if you know there's anything I can do to help you out in the future, you let me know and I you know, we'll keep in touch and keep checking in every once in a while. It'd be my pleasure. Got a friend.

Sounds good. Sounds good. yes, I appreciate

it. Same, same on both sides.

Okay. how can people get in touch with you?

they can go to empowered

to thrive consulting dot com and my contact information is there. It'd be the easiest way. Yep.

Okay, wonderful.

And yeah, look for you on your Instagram and and and TikTok posts. Yeah, they're they're wonderful.

And TikTok. Yep. Yep. Thank you.

thank you again for your time. I'm so impressed with what you're doing now. Good luck as a teacher in in Colorado,

Thank you.

okay. Thanks for your time. Great seeing you. Have a great day.

Yeah. You too. Take care. Goodbye.