In episode 66 of the Potential Leader Lab Podcast, we explore the often-overlooked yet crucial role of leaders who, much like bass players in a band, create the foundation that allows everything else to shine.

🤔 Our Discussion 🤔

Leadership is often confused with performance, where the emphasis is on seeking the spotlight. True leadership involves craving impact rather than attention, serving a purpose beyond oneself, and embodying humility. Whether you’re leading a team or just seeking to live more harmoniously, tune in to discover how to lead like a bass player, building something impactful and lasting without always needing to be the face in the front.

★ Key Topics ★

00:46 Humility Over Self-Centeredness

05:56 Momentum Over Moments

09:18 "Building Momentum Through Exploration"

11:11 Plan vs. People Approach Debate

13:59 "Go with the Flow"

18:23 "Lead Like a Bass Player"

👋 Find Perry Maughmer 👋

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/perrymaughmer

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Contact: https://perrymaughmer.com/contact

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Perry Maughmer believes the world deserves better leadership; that in every human interaction there is the opportunity to either build others up or tear them down; and that leadership is the choice we make in those moments.

These beliefs led Perry to create the Potential Leader Lab. He wanted to offer those who share his beliefs the space and safety to explore transformative ideas, experiment with new behaviors, and evolve into the leaders they were meant to be and that the world needs.

This is a framework he has used again and again with his Vistage peer advisory groups and companies like Turn-Key Tunneling, Convergint, Haughn &  Associates, I Am Boundless, Ketchum & Walton, LSP Technologies, and Ahlum & Arbor.

Perry lives and works on the shores of Buckeye Lake in Ohio, in the mountains of northwest Georgia, and on the beach in Anna Maria, Florida with his amazingly creative wife Lisa. They have 2 rescue dogs and are intermittently visited by their 3 wonderful children throughout the year. Perry & Lisa are living life in crescendo and focused on exploring, experimenting, and evolving their vision of a life they have no desire to retire from.

Copyright 2025 Perry Maughmer

Welcome to The Potential Leader Lab. I'm your host, Perry Maughmer. And today on episode 66, we're gonna talk about why real leaders don't crave the spotlight, a k a the bass player mentality. So here's the thing. A lot of people confuse leadership with performance. They want the and I'm what I mean by that is they want the solos, the applause, the spotlight. But the best leaders, the ones who actually make a difference, they're the bass players. Unseen by most people, but the reason everything works.

They don't crave attention, they crave impact. And if you don't get that, you don't get leadership. So here's the deal. Life is not about starring in your own movie. It's about contributing to something bigger than yourself. And the people who figure that out don't just lead better, they live better. And this goes back to Maslow. Right? Self transcendence.

It's not because everything we talked about, craving attention and impact, all those things, that's self actualization. That's me focused. I'm gonna become the best version of myself. I'm gonna focus on me. I'm gonna develop me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I. And now we're talking about others. We're talking about the the next part of that, which Maslow said was actually the top of the pyramid, which is self transcendence, moving beyond myself in service to others. So I need to self actualize, but I only need to do that so I can move beyond myself in service to other people.

So it has a purpose, not just it's not just I'm not an end in myself. So let's let's get into it. You're you're not the main character in the story. The world doesn't care about your title, your position, or how much noise you make. It never never has, never will, does not currently care. The best music, the best teams, the best organizations function because of the people who make it work, not the ones demanding to be seen. And you you know there are there are so many organizations out there, and I work with to be honest, I have some as clients where you would, if you bumped into the person who started and owned the company, you wouldn't know they did anything. They're they have so much humility.

They don't wanna stand out. They don't care about a spotlight. They care about creating an environment where people can do great work to serve a higher purpose. And that's what we're talking about today. So how does this connect to a bass player? Because I think we can well, first of all, name me I like anybody, name me 10 great bass players. Like, other than Paul McCartney. Paul McCartney is a great bass player, but I don't even know if you knew Paul McCartney played the bass. Right? So here's the thing.

Bass players don't stand out. They don't stand in the front of the stage. They create the foundation that lets everything else come together. They they play the baseline. So in an organization, the best leaders don't chase attention. They make sure that everything flows. And and so a a baseline connects rhythm and harmony, technically, if we're talking music theory. I'm no musician.

I look this up. One of my friends, Eric Pennington, he's great. If you listen to his podcast, The Spirit of EQ, he he loves jazz. He would be all over this. Right? Because it's it's the rhythm and the harmony. Now I'll align those with if in fact that's true, which I think it is because I looked it up on a couple different places. It didn't just come from you know, I didn't just read it on the Internet. So we have the baseline connects the rhythm and the harmony.

Well, if we think about rhythm as operations and harmony as vision, it creates the vision it connects the vision and the operations. That's what baselines do. That's what base players do is they have they they construct the baseline. It's the bridge between those two things. And so there there is a kind of a subtle existential thread through this conversation as well because life, like leadership, is is an open system. You don't arrive at some final glorious destination, you participate, adapt, and evolve. So this isn't about a destination oriented thing. Now, that you wanna know the tragedy? Most people waste their time trying to control things instead of learning how to play in sync with what's actually happening.

There is a natural rhythm to the world. I don't wanna get esoteric on you, but great leaders and great organizations are aware of that. They listen. And by listen, I just I don't mean listen only with their ears. I mean, they listen. They're aware of what's going on around them, what's going on in the greater macroeconomic environment, what's going on with their people, what's going on with their community. They've they they pay attention to to to signals, and they pay attention to connections, and they pay attention to they they notice these things. They notice signs because they're aware.

They're listening. They notice patterns. Pattern recognition is a much under discussed, but vitally important leadership quality, is being able to see patterns, being able to notice patterns in people and and activities. So here's the role of the bass player in leadership. They sink the chaos into the rhythm. So again, we we have things going on we're not in control of. We're not in control of a lot of things. And that and organizations just like a band can fall apart if there's no anchor holding them together.

Now, the bass player isn't about rigid control. It's not about demanding that everybody be in lockstep. They adapt and respond and create a groove that allows everything else to thrive. So, again, they're constantly evaluating, constantly listening to what's going on if we're talking about a bass player in the band, what's going on with all the other instruments, and they're adapting to that. They're adapting the groove to allow other people to play along with that. And I think this is a great way to think about this. We're I love this phrase. Well, I and I probably love it because I created it.

But I love it because we don't create moments, we create momentum. And see, the the lead singer, the lead guitarist, the person wants to be in the front, they're all about the moments. Well, what about momentum? You know, too many people chase those those big defining leadership moments instead of doing the daily work that it that creates real impact that's sustainable and scalable. And the baseline doesn't need a grand entrance. It doesn't you ever see that with the band when the rest of the band's up there and they're playing and then there's no lead singer, and the lead singer makes their, you know, their wondrous entrance. I know back way back in the day, twenty years ago, I would see Garth Brooks in concert. And he actually was shot up from underneath the stage, like, 10 feet up in the air and then landed, But that was his entrance. Right? But the band was already playing.

And I think that's what we have to think about because the baseline doesn't need that grand entrance. It shows up over and over again, steady and essential. Right? Building momentum, not moments. And real leaders do the same thing. They value consistency over intensity. And so I I in the NFL, they talk about, their they frequently say that the best ability anybody can have is availability. Right? Be available. Are you showing up day after day after day? That's I I will tell you the one thing they talk about with leaders that most that that earn trust.

So I want you to think about this. Trust is a huge thing. Well, do you know who you trust? You trust people that are consistent. That's how you build trust, is you show up consistently. And what I mean show up, I mean physically show up, emotionally show up, mentally show up, all of those things. But you show up consistently. You're the same every day. And I don't mean exactly the same.

I just mean that they know who you are and that you show up as that person every day. You're consistent. And now the other thing, this is this is a real interesting thing right here. Silence matters as much as sound. Good bass players don't fill every gap. They leave space where it's needed. And the same with leadership, real influence isn't about doing more, it's about creating space for all the right things to emerge. So again, as a leader, just like a bass player, you're in the back, you're in the background.

You're not out in front. Just think about this, you're creating an environment and you're creating space, you're creating an ecosystem for the right things to emerge. You're not forcing anything. And then the the last one, to really think about this one, the insecure leader micromanages, the strong leader listens. And I wanna give you another term that people go, oh, no. I don't micromanage. Oh, no. I don't I would never do that.

I don't micromanage. Well, I want I want you to give another way to think about micromanaging. Do you constantly give directions and take action? Are you constantly in action? Are you constantly directing? If you're doing that, you're micromanaging. So that's an insecure leader. Insecure leaders micromanage. Strong leaders listen. Strong leaders give space. Strong leaders create opportunities for people for the right things to emerge.

They're patient. They create momentum, not moments. So now what we have to figure out is how do we experiment into this? How do we explore into this? And you have to be if you wanna do this, you have to be willing to explore for the real needs, not just the reactions, not just for the for the solo, not just for the moment. But what's really needed? What kind of baseline is needed to build momentum to show up consistently every day to create that environment every day, day after day, where people can thrive and evolve? And then we have to as we go, we we we bring it into existence. It's a constant act of experimentation, of adjusting and refining, and letting that groove emerge instead of forcing it. Again, we have to be very careful. We're not as a leader, we're not trying to be in charge of things. We're not trying to force things.

We're not trying to do we're trying to put we're trying to create an environment, and that includes a physical environment for people, putting the right people at the table and then seeing what happens as a result. And so experimentation is is absolutely necessary because as you put people together, you never know how that's gonna play out for people. You never know how they're how those interactions are gonna go. So you have to constantly be adjusting the baseline as you see as you see things happening. And that's what the evolution is is constantly refining that rhythm to match what the song or your team actually needs. You're not trying to force them to play the one song that you know how to play. You're trying to put a group together and then create something new, and that baseline is helping them do that. But you can't do that if you if you've got a predetermined goal in your head that you have to reach.

If you want the song to sound like this and like this only, then I have no idea if the people you put together are gonna be the people that can do that. I just talked about this. We used another, we used another analogy the other day. We talked about, as a coach, you have two you have two options on a different end of a spectrum, and there's grades in the middle. But I either have a plan and I find the exact right people to execute that plan, or I find great people and I create a plan for those great people to be successful. What's more likely today? Are you gonna be the person on one end of that spectrum that says, my plan is perfect. I just need to find the people that are gonna execute, have the capacity, talent, and will to execute my plan and listen to me, Or am I gonna go out and find the very best people and figure out what plan I can create to bring those skills to life? And I think we can all figure out which side is more likely. And again, a certain a little dose of humility in there doesn't hurt because that's at the core of all this.

So what happens when there's no bass? Take the bass out of a song. What happens? It's empty, unstable, off balance. It's all those things. Doesn't doesn't sound very good. And this is equate this with an organization with no leadership. There's no alignment. There's no consistency. There's no there's no feel.

Decisions that ignore momentum and culture lead to being something more or less a mechanical soulless workplace. Yeah. We check all the boxes. We come in every day and check the boxes. We do the stuff. Just as has no feel to it. And and by the way, leadership isn't about running around fixing problems. It's about playing a part in the song, in the whole song.

It's about being that baseline in the song. And they don't organizations don't fail because of a lack of vision. They fail because there's no one keeping them in rhythm. Any any jackass can come up with a vision. I mean, I hate to say it, but visions are a dime a dozen. It's how do you get from vision to reality? And that takes someone playing rhythm. They gotta you gotta play that rhythm. You gotta beat that drum because drums are also part of bass.

Right? You gotta create that drum beat for people so they get in step. Because if you just allow people to march at their own pace, they're never gonna be in step. The same thing with with rhythm. You have to create a rhythm for people so they get a feel for what you expect them to do. You know where the mistake is, so we if we bounce a little bit in an existentialism, the the mistake is we think we could control the song instead of just learning to play within it. We are not the story. We are not the song. We are not the goal.

We're part of it. So can we learn to play within it? It's can we get in the flow? It's it's really and it just brings up a thought because, if you ever go on white water rafting, they'll tell you oftentimes if you fall out of a boat and you're white water rafting, the the only thing you should not do is try to stand up. Because if you try to stand up, you can get a foot or a leg pinned under a rock and then the force of the water will hold you under and you're drowned. What you're supposed to do is lean back, cross your arms and legs, cross your legs and cross your arms, cross your chest, lean back and let the water carry you out. Go with the flow. And then when you do get out when you do get out to the flow and you wanna swim to to one of the banks, you should never swim at a 45. You swim at a never swim at a 90. Right? And don't try to go directly across to the shore.

Swim at a 45. Use the current to get you to your location. Go with the current. The story is still the same the same thing holds holds water here. The best leaders don't force alignment. They become part of the rhythm, and they shape it from within. You're subtly guiding people with that rhythm. You're not outside hammering hard boundaries for people, forcing them into it.

You're creating a rhythm that brings them into alignment with you. So how do you lead like a bass player? Well, here, here's a couple things. Step back and feel the rhythm before you try to control it. This isn't you determining the rhythm. It's you stepping back and seeing what's going on and reading the situation and then feeling what rhythm already exists and playing along with the rhythm. Learn to sense what's actually is happening. It's leadership is not about control, It's about response. It's about noticing.

It's about feeling, not about control. And commit so next step would be commit to the grooves, not to the solos. Your job is to create stability and momentum, not be the star of the show. So ask yourself, here's a question for you. Are you building something sustainable? Are you chasing applause? Because I think we all wanna build something that's sustainable. We don't we don't wanna chase applause. And then play the long game. A great baseline isn't good for just a moment.

It carries the song from start to finish, and your leadership should do the same. But we have to have an openness to the universe in able to do this. We have to have a sense of humility that there are things going on that we may or may not understand, and we have to sense what those things are and then align people to it because it's the path of least resistance sometimes. It enables us it's a point of leverage for us if we notice these things. And we should always chase the point of leverage because points of leverage give us a an a a greater return for less effort. And if you're not if you aren't evolving, if you're not learning how to adjust your playing to the real rhythm of the work and your people, then you're gonna fall behind. And you're gonna have to work harder, and the people are gonna feel that. And I don't think that's I don't think that's what anybody wants.

So we've all been we've all been trained, and we've all been acclimated to think that leadership means being seen. That you're out front, that you're the spokesperson, that you're the voice, that leaders lead from out front. And that's why so many people so many leaders fail. The real ones, the ones who make a difference don't fight for the mic. They shape the music. That's different because I'm concerned with something larger than applause. And great leaders create a foundation for everyone else to work. They don't force leadership, they become it.

Because we're not we we shape the music that people hear. So when you shape the music, people fall in line. They start they start snapping their fingers and bouncing to that rhythm. They don't they don't think anymore about it. They're it's not they're not this isn't about somebody forcing them to do something. They can't help themselves. It's like when you turn on music and you watch people, they just start to naturally tap their foot in all of those things. Great leaders do the same thing.

You create you create an environment where people wanna do that, where they just wanna slide into this thing and start participating because it just feels right. So here's what I ask you to do this week. Step back, pay attention, and think about it. Are you leading like a bass player? Are you locking in and setting others up for success? Or are you just trying to be the loudest person in the room? So answer that question. If it's the latter, you know what you need to do. You need to go make something worth listening to. I appreciate you spending some time with me. I look forward to speaking to you again real soon.