Episode Summary

Join Harry Duran, host of Vertical Farming Podcast, as he welcomes to the show Samantha Johnson. Samantha is the Director of Aquaponics Programs at Commonwealth Charter Academy, a top accredited K through 12 public cyber charter school located in Pennsylvania. Samantha is a highly skilled and student-focused leader who possesses a strong commitment to the development of students and staff through differentiated, innovative and individualized learning experiences

Today, Harry and Samantha talk about the work she is doing educating young men and women on the AgTech industry, specifically through the aquaponics program at CCA. She talks about the partnerships CCA has with AeroFarms and Vertical Harvest and the goals they are striving to achieve together. Samantha also speaks to the importance she places on preparing her students for the professional world and the challenges they are likely to face in the vertical farming space. Finally, Samantha discusses what continues to motivate and drive her throughout her teaching and vertical farming journey.

Episode Sponsor

CULTIVATD

Freight Farms

Key Takeaways

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• 01:13 – Harry welcomes to the show Samantha Johnson, who joins the show to discuss her background in education and the challenges COVID-19 has brought to her profession
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• 10:36 – Commonwealth Charter Academy
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• 12:23 – Samantha’s vertical farming origin story
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• 18:07 – Partnering with AeroFarms and Vertical Harvest
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• 19:40 – Student feedback on the Aquaponics Program
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• 26:49 – Learning through mistakes
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• 31:23 – Changes and trends Samantha has noticed in the vertical farming industry
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• 35:48 – Companies and organizations Samantha would like to partner with in the future
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• 39:51 – Challenges in AgTech and education
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• 46:39 – Something Samantha has changed her mind about recently
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• 48:49 – What motivates and drives Samantha
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• 51:59 – Harry thanks Samantha for joining the show and let’s listeners know where they can learn more about CCA and connect with Samantha
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Tweetable Quotes

“Commonwealth Charter Academy is a public cyber charter school located in Pennsylvania. We have numerous building across the state because, although we’re a cyber school, we very much understand that some learners learn best in person or even in a blended model.” (10:41) (Samantha)

“Our school itself is very large. We’re up to about sixteen to seventeen thousand students and our mantra is workforce development. We want students to have skills necessary to either enter the workforce after they graduate. Or, if they want to go to college, we want to help them through that entire process from start to finish.” (11:27) (Samantha)

“At the end of the day, I want to give them skills that they can use when they graduate. And there are some basic ones that everyone needs to know. You have to show up on time. You have to show up appropriately dressed. Those kind of very basic skills.” (25:07) (Samantha)

“I feel like the vertical farming industry changes a mile a minute.” (31:31) (Samantha)

“For us it’s more how do we make sure that we meet the needs of all of our students, and on top of that we work with community members too.” (46:11) (Samantha)

Links Mentioned

Samantha’s LinkedIn

Sponsor Info:

Cultivatd Website

Cultivatd Instagram

Cultivatd’s Twitter

Cultivatd’s Facebook

Freight Farms Website

Freight Farms Facebook

Freight Farms Twitter

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Mentioned in this episode:

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or click the link in the show notes. We have a TechWorks at CCA

program out at the waterfront in Pittsburgh, and then we're in the middle of

building MedWorks, which is going to be located in Malvern, Pennsylvania,

outside of Philadelphia. And so our school itself, we're very

large. We're up to about 16,000, 17,000 students, and

our mantra is workforce development. We want students to have

skills necessary to either enter the workforce after they graduate,

or if they want to go to college, we want to help them through that

entire process from start to finish.

Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast. Weekly conversations with

fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.

Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical

farming with your host, Harry Duran.

Vertical Farming Podcast, Season 4. Welcome back.

First-time listeners, if you are looking for a show where we interview fascinating

CEOs and founders of the leading vertical farming companies from around the world, then you're

in the right place. I'm your host, Harry Duran. In case you missed last

episode, we had a great conversation with Rosario Iacono, founder

of Casvista. Rosario and team are doing some really fascinating

work in the field of open source seeds, specifically

for the CEA industry, and I was really

inspired to have that conversation with him. So make sure you check that out. This

week I speak with Samantha Johnson. She's the director of aquaponics programs

at Commonwealth Charter Academy. A top-accredited K-12

public cyber charter school located in Pennsylvania. Samantha

is a highly skilled and student-focused leader who possesses a strong commitment

to the development of her students and her staff through differentiated,

innovative, and individualized learning experiences. And in this

episode, we talk about the work she's doing educating young men and women on the

agtech industry, specifically through the aquaponics program at CCA.

She talks about the partnerships CCA has had with AeroFarms and Vertical

Harvest and the goals they're striving to achieve together. Samantha

also speaks to the importance she places on preparing her students for the professional

world and the challenges they are likely to face in the vertical farming space. And

finally, Samantha discusses what continues to motivate and drive her throughout

her teaching and vertical farming journey. Very, very inspirational

conversation with Samantha. I'm really inspired by the work that she's doing at

CCA, and I know you will be as well. This episode is brought to you

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Okay, without further ado, let's get into this conversation with Samantha. So Samantha

Johnson, Director of AgWorks at CCA, thank you for joining me on the

Vertical Farming Podcast. Thank you for having me. So

I'm curious, you have a long background in teaching.

I've noticed. And I'm wondering, what was the earliest recollection you

have of wanting to become a teacher? Probably elementary school. I

just, I've always liked— I hate saying being, being the one

called on in school. And so I wasn't necessarily the

teacher's pet. I was that student that the teacher made the teacher's

pet because I would act up so much that they just would assign me to

do random tasks. And those always helped other

students. And then as I matriculated through school, I was very much

into soccer and tennis, and I joined, you know, tennis for kids where I could

help instruct younger kids. And just, I really loved science and it

just seemed to be a good meld of the two when I went to college.

And did you find that's something that you were drawn to, this

idea of like teaching and helping and instructing others? Absolutely.

It just— I've always really liked when I'm trying to explain something

to a student that they'd never understood the concept, they didn't get it. or they

hated the subject altogether. And I really enjoyed getting

to know the student as a person and then trying to figure out

how to correlate what I was instructing in science to something that

they actually liked to do, which could be a huge stretch depending on

what student you're trying to talk with because, yeah, kids,

science and math go hand in hand and not everybody likes those 2 subjects.

Do you have teachers you recall from when you were in school that

stood out to you? It feels like everyone's got one or 2 that they remember

that were like really hands-on or really helpful Yes, and I'm still in

contact with him. Jay Vaselis, shout out to Jay Vaselis from

Red Lion High School. He's since retired and even served, I

think, a few years on the school board, but he was probably the most

impactful teacher that I've ever had. What was it specifically about his

teaching style? He was hilarious. He taught social studies, and

as a science math nerd, I was the opposite. I didn't care

about social studies. And he would just do really funny things in

class that were goofy to me. And I just wound

up paying more attention because he would walk over to the projector and,

you know, try to pull it down and pretend like it wasn't working and

have a fake temper tantrum and ask a student to come up. Well,

here, you pull it down. Okay, well, here, read the projector, you know, read to

the class what that is. And he just, he tried his best to make learning

as fun as he possibly could. It's so interesting because

experiences and teachers like that definitely stand out. And with so

many topics that at that age you may feel like

mundane or not that interesting, and so it's, it's really interesting when you have someone

who cares that much about the students and wants to make an

impression on them. And, and that's— I always applaud the

teaching profession because it's just really one of the unsung,

you know, great professions that have such a close connection to kids at an

age when they're really impressionable. So I think definitely more

needs to be done in that area. Yeah, it would be— if more teachers

just were a little bit goofier. That's my best advice I

could give to pretty much any educator, because their heart is always in it.

There's just, in every industry, a lot of rules and regulations. And

teaching, of course, you're working around kids. It makes sense that there's a lot of

rules. But sometimes you just got to figure out a way to have fun in

between the rules. and really make it engaging and interesting for the kids.

Otherwise, you're just spending the whole day lecturing, and that's never any fun.

Yeah, and that's when they start droning off. And I can't even

imagine what it's like nowadays with all the competition from

cell phones and iPhones in the classroom, which I

grew— I was born in 1970, so that definitely wasn't around when

I was in school. And I can't imagine how teachers can compete with that. Oh,

and we are a unique school in a unique space because we are a public

school. And in Pennsylvania, it allows allows this. The laws allow for

you to be a public cyber charter school, which sounds very

odd, but it basically means that we follow all the same regulations as

any other public school does, but we teach everything

online. When you talk about students that are attached to

their cell phones or their tablets, we can try to use

that just overall exuberance they have for technology to really

integrate different types of learning for them. Which of course is a

challenge because they're at home, but we've been doing it for so long that

even now with the pandemic, it seems like a really good avenue for so

many families that never even considered trying to learn from home.

What do you think has been the biggest challenge? You know, as we're,

we're timestamping this as August 2021, so we're

probably coming up on almost 2 years of being through that,

and I'm just wondering, as it Coming from the perspective of a teacher, what that

the past year and a half has been like? For us, we were prepared

more so than I think most schools across the country, just because we

already were online. So we already had, you know, a company that we

partner with to ship curriculum and laptops, and every student

receives the same materials. So that inequity of, you know, that family that's

in poverty that doesn't have internet at home versus the other family that

has a, you know, a brand new MacBook, How do you do that as a

brick-and-mortar teacher, a traditional teacher? You know, those are really

heroes for all of COVID Whereas at our school,

because we already had a little over 10,000 students before the

pandemic, we close to doubled in size because of the

pandemic. Wow. But my program in particular, I run

a farm basically, and I run an indoor farm, and I rely on students

to be my literal unpaid workers where your

payment is in produce and in high school elective credit. which is

my ongoing joke with them. But we really had to pivot because of the

pandemic, because we, you know, students weren't permitted in the building.

So for us being, you know, I was fortunate as a teacher. My

staff though are non-educational staff. They're, you know, they're all

agricultural-based staff. So I'm like, hey guys, here's how you use an iPad.

This is how you use Zoom. Let's log into our system and kind of get

them familiar with it, because we had to instruct everything online.

and still be able to provide a similar experience, but move pretty much

from about 90% of all in-person learning to

online. Wow. I imagine there's a

skill set that's acquired through the use of these tools

that's going to be incredibly valuable for these students as they get older and they

start moving into jobs. And with the trend being a

big portion of companies forced to test out the remote

working model, and then realizing that their employees

actually like it and they prefer not having 2-hour commutes. And so

it's interesting to see how what the work you're doing with the students

may in fact be making them better prepared to have, you know,

jobs that are more remote in nature. I've worked with interns

that went through my program and have graduated. Some entered the workforce, some went on

to college, and I'm still in contact with a lot of them. And that's

exactly what they reported was, I'm really happy I went through this school

because when it hit, I could help my friends, I could help my family,

show them how to use breakout rooms and different platforms, you know,

and even assist some of my teachers, professors in college on how to use

this. And, you know, I'm kind of smiling and laughing and going,

see, you know, I put you in front of a camera to teach an elementary

class. That's a good skill set now that you can bring forth after you've

graduated. So it was a really terrible reason

behind them needing to use that skill set, but overall they've

been really helpful out in the community being a resource to other people on how

to use different types of tools and technology. Yeah, it's really

interesting, like the trends that have happened or the

pervasiveness of tools. Like almost everyone knows what Zoom is now, thanks

to the pandemic. And the other thing that I thought was interesting is this idea

of QR codes now, because for a while when you went to a restaurant, that's

all you could do. So now in the podcast world, people are now using

that as a promotional tool more now because they're more pervasive and people actually

understand what they are. So it's funny how usage and

people's habits and how they use technology start to change out of the

need to do that during the pandemic. It's funny that you

mentioned QR codes, and I'm sure my leadership team that's going

to listen to this later will be laughing about that. Because when we

first launched AgWorks, I was really into QR codes.

Like, we need to put QR codes all over the facility. I want

everyone to come in, you know, if they have their cell phone, they can launch

an FAQ about, you know, the bananas we have or the coffee plant.

They can learn a little bit more about it. And they were all looking at

me going, no one knows how to use a QR code. And then when your

iPhone, when they changed over that technology where you didn't need an app for a

QR code, you could just bring up the picture, I'm all excited. And sure

enough, having families come through, they're like, oh wait, how do you use a

QR code? And I'm like, oh, they were right. Not

everyone knows how to do this. But to your point, now

that, our buildings back open, they can come through and they're, sure enough, they're

bringing their phones out and scanning different things. So again, another

pro of some of just the craziness that's gone on over the last year and

a half. Yeah, they see the symbol and they immediately like know what that is.

So that's good. So talk to me a little bit about Commonwealth and

for those that might not be familiar with the organization. So Commonwealth

Charter Academy is a public cyber charter school located in

Pennsylvania. We have numerous buildings across the state

because Although we're a cyber school, we very much understand that some

learners learn best in person or even in a blended model.

And so, although we don't teach specifically from our buildings,

students still have the opportunity to come in. They can meet their teachers.

They can participate in programs like mine. I'm AgWorks at

CCA. I have a counterpart in Pittsburgh. I'm located in

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania is where my physical facility is. Okay. We have a

TechWorks at CCA program out at the waterfront in Pittsburgh.

And then we're in the middle of building MedWorks, which is going to be located

in Malvern, Pennsylvania, outside of Philadelphia. And so our

school itself, we're very large. We're up to about 16,000,

17,000 students. And our mantra is workforce

development. We want students to have skills necessary to

either enter the workforce after they graduate, or if they want to go to

college, we want to help them through that entire process from

start to finish. And we really do start in kindergarten. Oh, wow. My program

is one of those that we're like, hey, come on in, play around, check out

some really cool ag tools. We do aquaponics,

aeroponics, and hydroponics, but we also do things like embryology.

We do Ag on the Run where we visit local farmers and they can talk

to them about their tea farming business, their equestrian

business. So we, again, we try to integrate in agriculture in

my program in particular, as much knowledge as we can

into the curriculum, but also just having fun opportunities for

kids to learn about agriculture. Talk to me about your

personal journey and awareness of hydroponics,

aeroponics, vertical— all things vertical farming. So I really

started learning more about vertical farming probably around

2010, when I was still a master teacher at our school.

It was a really fun way that When I taught 8th grade science, I

could really introduce a lot of different topics to students that way.

And it was mainly hydroponics. Aquaponics came a little bit later

along with aeroponics. And again, it's one of those features that

when you're a teacher, you always try to have different tools you can

grab to help integrate different standards. Sure. And

aquaponics became one of those ideals that you really could

refer back to starting in the fall all the way through the spring,

and students really liked it. And so as an organization,

we were moving from one building to another because we were growing so

quickly. And the building we purchased was right across the street

from Pennsylvania's Farm Show building, and we were diagonal

from the Department of Agriculture. And the building itself

had a lot of glass, so it, it kind of looked like a greenhouse in

some areas in the building. And our administration,

you know, the top 3 fields in Pennsylvania in need of workers when they

graduate are agriculture, medical, and technology. And they're

like, hey, this looks like a greenhouse. I wonder what we could do in this

space. And then it just, it grew from there. And so we did

a very large installation for aquaponics and felt,

okay, you know, there's really not a lot of aquaponic jobs when you

graduate, whereas hydroponics and aeroponics, they have a few

more options. So, let's try and do all 3. And so, we have

multiple types of machines for students to learn on. I work with

outside organizations. They review the SOPs, or standard

operating procedures, that we've developed. So, that way I know, like, hey, if I'm sending

you a student, you can rest assured that they know the basics. They know

basic food safety. They know HazCom. They have soft skills. They can run a

hose. They can get dirty and not you know,

fidget about being a little bit dirty. And so my job is

really to help outside businesses know, like, hey, you

should feel secure if you see Ag Works at CCA on a resume,

that I'm sending you a student with some pretty solid foundational skills.

How much of it was a learning curve for you if you just

started out in one of those to become proficient or start to work

with partners that had the expertise to build that program out? I feel like

everyone probably tells you this. It was a very big

learning curve for me. Although I was familiar with

aquaponics, hydroponics, aeroponics, when you're working with

very large tanks and not kind of a small tabletop tank,

when you're working with biotechnology-type spaces, we do tissue

culture and we have a genetics lab here as well. So it,

it was one of those, wow, it it's going to take a village. I am

not going to be able to master this as quickly as I need to, to

start onboarding students. And so, I developed a

very good team that helps to support programs, and that kind

of diversity and understanding has really helped our program grow,

because I can really understand aquaponics, but, you know, when our UV

filters, you know, would short out at the same time a pump would,

it's one of those, okay, I can handle the UV filter. I've never taken a

pump apart before, though. Can someone snag the pump? We got to get it

up and running here really quick. It was great to be able to rely on

a team that knew some of the more mechanical pieces, whereas I was

bringing more content knowledge when it came to the science background to it.

So again, it, it took a village to really grow it, and I can't speak

highly enough of my team and how great they were with, you know, helping us

troubleshoot, especially after that first year. If I remember correctly, you have

a background in biology as well, right? I do, I do. And

that's been very helpful because when you talk about installing

LED lights, choosing pumps, flow rates

for tanks, you know, all of the aquaculture associated with growing,

that was an easy transition. It was more of, okay, well, I

have a whole team that's turning and looking at me going, hmm, we

just bought a new microgreen station and it's You know, 4 times as big as

our original one. How do we operate that, Sam? And, you know,

I'm sneaking over to grab the manual, like, okay, I know the

basics of how to make sure that the food it produces is good, but I've

not used this giant machine before. I'm used to doing the trays.

So let me, let me look at that first. I'll get back to you tomorrow.

That's interesting. Is all the technology and equipment

you use, is that homegrown or do you work with partners for that? We

work with partners. So as an example, we have 2

Rotogrow machines in our facility to demonstrate hydroponics.

We're working with AeroFarms to get one of their units installed in our facility.

And so we do really pride ourselves on trying to coordinate with

outside organizations, primarily because, you know, I want to

be able to send them students after they graduate. There's, there's a pretty big

gap in workforce that know really anything about

vertical farming. So for me to be able to send you a kid that understands

LED lights and light spectrums and recipes for plants,

I'm able to do that. But I also understand that,

okay, AeroFarms' needs are probably going to be significantly different than the

Bowery. And so you really need to talk to them and make sure that they

are reviewing what it is you're instructing for the workforce development piece.

So you are sending them authentic workers that are hopefully

also reducing some of their costs in training and onboarding.

Have you had enough cycles to see the benefits or get

feedback from the likes of AeroFarms, Bowery's, Rotogrow, as to

the caliber of the students you're sending over? So the

2 biggest groups we've been working with right now are AeroFarms and

Vertical Harvest. Because, unfortunately, because of COVID

we haven't had students in our facility for a little over a year. Now, this

fall, we're really excited. Actually, probably, let's see, it's

August 17th, so we start school right after Labor Day. So,

we'll be able to get students back into the lab system, but we

haven't had that complete cycle yet of students that

we've been able to send off. But we are tracking them after they

graduate, mainly to get their feedback. You know, what have you learned in our

program? Are you willing to come back and speak to our kids about your

experiences, good and bad? What helped you, what didn't help you. But as

far as those specific businesses, that is in the plans, it was just delayed

because of COVID And that's Vertical Harvest out of Jackson?

Yes. Yes, I've had the founders on and folks from

AeroFarms as well. So those have been really good conversations. I'm curious

how students think about the program in terms of how

it's promoted, how you recruit, or how

it's sold to them as something that gets them excited about participating.

So we are a unique school. We're a very innovative school,

and we do have a lot of kids with diverse needs and a diverse background.

And so when we introduce the program to students, I

say choose your own adventure within reason. For example,

you know, I've had actually numerous students go through and say, hey, can we

put piranha in your tank? Technically, yes,

but no, we're not going to do that. And so And then I had another

student come through and he actually swore when he came in

because he looked down at our system and he was so overwhelmed that he blurted

out a swear word. That's funny. And I'm, you know, staring at him going, okay,

teacher hat, I got to put that on. And let's chat about that

first because, you know, when you're working in the system, it's professional

development. You need to be a professional when you come into the space. So I

had to have the whole soft skill conversation with that student at the start.

Interesting. But then, you know, we have so much to offer in terms

of types of growing, but also types of technology,

marketing. You know, there's so much available to students that it

really is conversational. What do you want to do? What do you like? What

don't you like? A lot of kids tell me, I don't even know, which

I say, great, because we do field trips, we have activity

days, we do full-blown internships with students.

So it's all a matter of just getting started and seeing what it is that

you like or don't like to do. I'm very upfront with students and I tell

them, no one likes to clean, and you can tell

me you don't like to clean, but you're cleaning. So there's some give and take

there, but it's really about being upfront with the students to say, you know, if

you want to use our 3D printers, you can, but you got to go

clean a tank first before you go and get to use some of these other

pieces of technology that help to support the system. Other kids

will tell me, I hate technology, which is always funny to me because I'm like,

we're a cyber school. But I get it. You know, you don't want to do

coding, for example. You know, when you say technology, there's all sorts available.

And then again, I try to talk to them and say, well, maybe you don't

like working the technology, but maybe you want to be in the room that I'm

in, our green screen room. Maybe you're very articulate.

Your pacing with your speech is on point. Do you want to be a part

of one of our online series? We have a CCAWorks YouTube

channel that we use to help promote different components in the

lab. We put instructional videos on there, tutorials on

there. We even do fun things like, we're going to be doing a

series here shortly that'll be released where we read

agricultural-based children's books. So, you know, hey, do you want to come in and

read a children's book? You have to do funny voices, you can dress up, You

know, all that kind of a thing. But again, it's really up to what the

student really likes to do. And if they want to get credit

for it in high school or not, because credit is associated with hours.

And some of our students physically can't travel here all the time.

So it becomes a little bit more challenging to meet their

needs, which I will mention that we do have a mobile

aquaponics classroom. Okay. That I do send all across the state.

Because if that student can't physically come to me, I can come to them. It

just depends on, again, what it is they want to do. Because if they tell

me, well, I don't like fish and I don't really like plants, but I want

to do more, you know, marketing-type work, well, then I probably won't

deploy the mobile lab to you, but I will execute

different types of resources we have so you can still explore that just in a

different capacity. It seems like the— I could see

someone coming out of the program with a major in agriculture with a minor

in improv. Oh, and we—

if you have a chance to check out any of our videos on YouTube, it

really does make you smile to see students really talking about

something that they really care about. There's a student that is a

graduate. She was an intern with Ag Works, and she built an

automatic seeder for me. And it was solar powered.

It had, you know, really cool wheels that it, you know, ran across our media

beds and, you know, was able to literally seed out different

types of seeds. It had a mechanical arm. And I remember

laughing with her about this machine that she had built me that I could never

do myself. And I'm looking at her going, hey, you know, there you're,

you know, are you looking for the next level of a challenge? And she's like,

oh, you know, I'm always looking to try something new and something different. I'm like,

hey, they're doing a TEDx Youth event in Lancaster. You should apply to that.

And she kind of looked at me and went, I have to speak in front

of, you know, a huge group of people. I'm like, I was like, you can

do it. It's going to be totally awesome. Because she's a very good kid. And

she applied and was able to present on her machine that she had

created. And again, it's those conversations that you have with

kids that you're trying to open their eyes to different things that are

available to them that they just would have never considered otherwise. Yeah, and

sometimes they just need that slight nudge outside of their comfort zone.

And I will nudge them right into a tank. And

it's the combination of skills that becomes really

powerful because if she already had the technical skills and the ability to know

what inventive skills or whatever it was to put that piece of hardware together, and

then coupled with the ability to now speak about what she did, that's

that's pretty powerful. And and I think just getting them over that hump of nobody

likes speaking in public. I know it was terrifying for me when I first got

started. So I think it's it's a valuable skill set, and I think

mixing those up with the students, I imagine it just makes them that much more

attractive. for employers in the future? Absolutely.

They know we start out, you know, I joke,

I joke with you to say, you know, I start out letting them know, no

matter what, you're going to have to clean a tank, which is true. All roads

lead to the tank cleaning. All roads lead to the tanks. You got to wipe,

you got to keep everything clean. But at the end of the day, you know,

I want to give them skills that they can use when they graduate. And there

are some basic ones that everybody needs to know. You know, you got to show

up on time. You have to show up appropriately dressed. In an ag

facility, you hair back, you're not wearing jewelry, that kind of just

very basic skills. But I do let them know, you know,

hey, you're going to work hard, but it's also a safe space for you.

If you fail, that's okay. You're going to learn through failure.

And you're also going to observe all of the ag work staff with

a lot of success, but also with a lot of failure. We do a lot

of goofy things sometimes and things break. We think we fix it, we didn't

fix it correctly. We have the students there watching us do it because we

want them to learn as well. And, you know, you walk away

and you forget to, you know, tie a rope down to a machine and

then, you know, one of the arms pops out and then you have water all

over the floor. And so it's, it's one of those, hey guys, it's okay to

fail in our space, but you're learning while you're doing it. So that way,

again, when you graduate and I send you to an employer, you know, if you

turn a ball valve a little bit too much and you shut the water off

to an NFT, everything's gonna die. And

you know what? That really stinks. That's okay. Let's talk about what

happened. Let's be able to move on though. Now you know not to do that

again. And now you know if you get employed by another grower, you

know how a ball valve works. So like those kinds of things, we

try to joke around with the kids so they know like, this is a safe

space for you to learn. And you gotta learn, you're gonna work really

hard, but hopefully the payoff there is again, that your resume

works its way up a little bit in a pile of people that are applying

for a job. Yeah, it's like something a previous manager once told me

that, like, there's no such— he didn't— what he said was you could say, I

don't know, if he asked you a question because, you know, sometimes you feel pressure

because your manager is asking you, like, you have to have the answer. But I

think he created that safe space to say, I don't know the answer, and it

was okay. And he was like, okay, let's figure it out together. And then the

other one was this idea of, like, making a mistake The first time you make

it, you didn't know any better, or, you know, no one ever told you. So

it just makes sense that you wouldn't know how to do that or ended up

doing it wrong. But then it's when you repeat the same mistake, he's like, that's

when, you know, people start to notice and it's obvious that you're not learning

the lesson. So I think that sounds like that's some of the things you're covering

as well. It definitely is. And one of the things that really

shines through with, with that whole, you know, you, you want to learn

to not do it again. We do a lot of repetitive

work. in the space. And I always smile when I see students, you

know, when you're seeding out in Rockwool, you know, you have a vat, you have,

you know, 200 wells that you're trying to put a teeny tiny seed in.

And after a while, it's not engaging. It's not like a video game

that they're playing that they're really into. You're literally sitting there for 45 minutes,

just one at a time, one at a time. And so

it's always funny to watch their reaction after, you know, that goes on the seeding

rack for a week. and we're like, hey, it's time to transplant. Ooh,

like you really messed that up. You maybe

have, you know, 40 that you can transplant. And now,

hey, in 6 weeks, you're gonna have to tell a chef why

you didn't make harvest because you weren't paying close enough attention

with what we would perceive as a menial task. Interesting. And

talking then to students, you know, there are automatic seeders that exist out there, but

you need to know how to manually do it first before you can use some

of the more advanced equipment. So it's, again, just one of those funny, you just

kind of smile and go, yep, I'm happy this happened here,

because you won't do it again. But now you got to tell a chef here

in 6 weeks, and that's never fun, why you're not able to make delivery.

Do you see the range of interests in people who

are students who start the program? Are there folks who, you know, be

happy working at one of these companies, or Do you have a mix of students

that have an entrepreneurial bent and are thinking of like starting their own

container farm or something of that nature? They really come from all

different backgrounds. Probably now would be a good time to mention,

with Vertical Harvest, for those that didn't get to listen to the previous podcast,

one of their core foundational thought

processes is that they employ other abled individuals. Yes.

And our student population at our school, we have a high instance of

students that need related services. They have an IEP, they're

special needs, they have a 504, they may have a physical

disability of some kind, and that can really play with your

head in a lot of ways, and your just emotional spectrum.

It makes you sometimes feel that you're not as capable as another person,

and one of the biggest joys that I have is seeing that thought

process really unwind itself in the lab.

because they're able to show just as much success as their

other general education students. So for me, I'm

like, I'm putting you alongside one another. You're going to learn from one another.

You're going to work with each other. You know, you're going to count on one

another. And yes, you do need to communicate with each other because

it's kids, you know, it's students. But overall, it's a very

enlightening moment when you actually see them successful

in the space and seeing that, hey, yeah, like you can do this. And guess

what? There is an employer that will employ you at the end of that

process. Again, you got to, got to do everything that

you're required to do, got to follow the rules. But at the end of the

day, there are employers that will open their arms to having you come and work

there. Yeah, and I just want to reiterate what, what a

great thing the folks at Vertical Harvest are doing. And I interviewed

Nona Yehia and Carolyn Croft

Esté, and those are the co-founders. And we— that was episode 30. I

was just looking it up here, 32. So for the listener, if you want to

go back and see a little bit more about their story, I think what they're

doing is really amazing. I'm just— I was glad I was able to highlight

their efforts. How has vertical farming changed since

you started the program? I mean, I've— the show's been around for now

almost a year and a half, and it's been amazing for me because I

focus on origin stories, and I learned how a lot of these

companies got started. And I'm wondering what it's been like from your

perspective, what you're seeing, and how that's changed

the curriculum, if at all. I feel like this industry, vertical

farming industry, changes just a mile a minute.

So when we got all of our initial tools and technology, we did our

initial installation, we just kind of sat back and, you know, you pat yourself on

the back, going, yes, I have all the best types of tools in here. We're

all ready to go and learn, and we're on the cutting edge. And one of

our biggest challenges is remaining on the cutting edge, getting the

newest, the best pieces of equipment in, and again, training

ourselves on how to use them so we can train students. And

it is one of those areas where when I look out into the system, even

looking at something as simple as our LED lights, you know, we have Lumigrow

was our provider, and we had their boxed lights. That company has now

been absorbed by another company who offers different types of

light spectrums. You know, of course, it uses different wattage. We

have solar panels that we use to 100% power the lab, which is very

helpful from an economic standpoint and a sustainability standpoint.

But even our solar panels, if you— there's newer ones that are available out there.

And so it's one of those just constant requirements for me as the director of

the program. I need to You know, listen to podcasts like yours. I

need to constantly do different types of investigations. Hey, what are you coming

out with? You know, is it Gen 1? Is it something that I want to

trial and give you feedback on, almost like an R&D situation?

Or, you know, hey, we have a few of those units now that we're trying

out in our system. Let's pivot now and get a Generation 4

of something so we know all the kinks have already been worked out. So

it's an interesting process for us because we can be a learning ground

for certain things. But at the end of the day, anything that we do

install, we want to make sure that our students, anything they're learning, can still

be applied to an industry within Pennsylvania. Do you

see a trend in awareness or interest from

students signing up for the program or expressing an interest in the program?

I do, mainly because vertical farming is

a sustainable form of agriculture. And when you used to say those

kind of terms to kids, they'd be like, okay, whatever. They liked the word

sustainable, but they really had no understanding of, you know, it uses

90 to 95% less water, that we do have those

solar panels on our roofs to help, you know, mitigate cost. They just

didn't really understand what it was. And so a lot of our marketing that we

did internally to students was explaining it. This is what

aquaponics is. This is hydroponics. This is aeroponics. And

We'd have to scaffold that because we're marketing to kindergartners, we're marketing

to 12th graders, and we were even, you know, we even market to

college and university students because they can

have internships in the system too. So it was really

entertaining to me to try to get the word out. You know, after a while

you become that broken record giving that elevator speech over and over and

over again. But to your point, that has changed pretty significantly in

Pennsylvania. The PA Farm Bill allowed for more

funding for a lot of farmers. So when they come through, you know,

Pennsylvania Farm Show, and they see our aquaponic mobile lab,

they're knowledgeable about what it is we're doing to the point that they go, hey,

I want to convert a certain area on my farm, and I want to do

aquaponics. Do you do installations? And I go, no, we are

not an installer, but we are a trainer. So if you have time and you

want to do You know, you want to volunteer in AgWorks, you're more than welcome

to. You're working with students, though, just FYI. But

there's not as much, hey, this is what it is, and this is how we

do it. It's more of, I really love this concept, how

can I make it come to life? Have you connected with the team at Fifth

Season Fresh? I have not. I have reached out to them, and

so has my counterpart out in TechWorks. But again, I'm

assuming with all the craziness that is COVID, that It's hard to

even get in to tour some of those facilities because they're trying to keep everything

as locked down as possible. But I did see that they came on here. And

so I smiled really big and went, hey, this would be really great if we

made our way out there. And I even think that our Lieutenant Governor, I think

they're from the same town. And so he's a big proponent for agriculture

and for farms. So it was again one of those, hmm, I'm gonna have to

try and figure out a way to go out there for a visit. Yeah, we

can figure out a way to to connect you guys. Is there anyone out there

that, given that this is a platform that

gets a pretty decent reach, is there a wish list of folks you want to

work with or people you have an eye on to partner with at some point?

That's a fantastic question. My biggest one

was Vertical Harvest because we have a little over 20%

of our students do have IEPs and they're in a very important

population for me in particular and When I learned about them, I

went, oh, wow, I really need, I really need to combine our

efforts here and figure out if what we're doing here aligns with

what they're doing. And luckily, of course, it did. Seems like such a perfect match.

And because they're building a facility in Philadelphia, they're looking for one in

Harrisburg. It was also, again, just that whole, I can start training them

for you now. And then by the time your facility is built, huh, it's, you

know, one of those Bring It On references where you, you know, Hey, I have

the cheerleading squad and here, championship, here you

go. And then AeroPharmas was another big one.

But we're always looking for different partners that we can work with.

Again, we do invite them to trial their, you know,

if they're an inventor of some kind, if they have a new piece of machinery,

we do invite them to reach out because if we have space in our facility,

our students are always looking to learn, to tinker, to provide

feedback. And again, that's the whole mantra of it's okay to fail.

When it's something that's first generation, yep, there's a lot of break-fix that

goes along with that. Even sometimes the manuals, just you're trying

to follow the manual that the company created, and it is a challenge. So

even providing that kind of rudimentary feedback is always good. But

we also try to reach out to other ag-based partners as well.

Example would be Cargill, you know, we just met with them about 2 weeks ago

trying to figure out, okay, well, how could we possibly partner together. So

there's a lot of really good avenues that are available in our program because

again, we're, we're helping to train them for you. So, hey, can you give us

some feedback? Do you want to partner? All we're asking for is

that when you see CCA on their resume, you're not looking at it going, ah,

you know, throw that in the trash. You know, you just want to kind of

give it a deeper glance, you know, maybe make its way up to the top

of the pile. That's interesting. It seems like there were some

intention put into the creation of the website? Because it's really

interactive and it's really colorful and it's really eye-catching, and I'm

wondering if that— you had a hand in that, or if that was just an

overall strategy that the team worked on? Oh, so I did have a hand in

that. We're also in the midst now of building even another

website, a brand new website that has even more interaction to it.

So I know I keep mentioning students with special needs, but we want to have

a virtual sensory room one that incorporates the sounds of our

pumps or the fans in the lab, livestreams that we do

when we hatch chickens. I call them my emotional support chickens.

But we have a livestream camera on there and kids just, they love to watch

it. It's soothing. So that website, it's your first

stop that we send to families to say, hey, this is our program. Here's kind

of an overview. Click the button, schedule a tour, come on in, check us

out. And then it's now to the point that we're ready to rebuild that

from scratch and offer a little bit more. Because so many other

educational institutions are starting to get more into

aquaponics. And their struggle is, how do we find

curriculum for this? It's not an easy way to find, you know,

next-generation science standard curriculum. So we also want to

become a resource for other schools that are saying, hey, we really

want to try this out. You know, for a teacher to learn this, it can

be kind of tough. So what's available to us? So Hey, check out

our website. There'll be different PDFs you can download for

lessons. You can check out our data. We'll freely share our data with

you from our system. If you wanna collaborate, maybe you have an

aquaponic or hydroponic installation, and we can do a challenge

between schools. Just any, again, anything that can try to make it

fun for any learner that wants to know more about

vertical farming. Well, what I love about that is that the abundance

mindset, and I see it sometimes on the podcasting side, like I'll have, I,

we own a podcast production company, but I talk to other podcast producers because I

just want to learn what's happening in the industry. And I get that feeling

from all these conversations I've had on the podcast that with a lot

of folks doing the same things, and in your case teaching also,

we need as much of this as possible to— in terms of actual

companies doing this work, and then the work that you're doing educating people

and training people and how to have success in these industries. And I

think there's not enough of that going on right now. And I

think this idea of just rising tide lifting all boats is really

inspiring to see. Yeah, one of the biggest constraints, at least in

Pennsylvania, is that there is an aging workforce in

agriculture in general. And that creates a lot of time constraints

on employers, employees to be able to really have the time to share

things out. And that's where that online platform, hey, if you can put a

video online, I don't need to travel to your facility to give you

professional development in X, Y, and Z. You just click the link, check it out.

And if you have questions, you can shoot an email out. So that time

constraint can really be diminished if you work a little bit

smarter in how you disseminate information. But

again, a lot of farmers, you know, traditional farmers in particular, it's

very hard to integrate certain types of technology into your giant

fields. Whereas for us, it's, hey, check out this camera, I have our

lights set like this, this is the dissolved oxygen reading, our pH readings,

all of that's on a dashboard in real time. So it's, it's a little bit

different, a different learning process in a lot of ways for vertical

farming. But it's one that everybody can learn from as we start to

develop just different ways that we can see are more

time-tested. And I think that's the other, the other piece of this is

we're constantly evolving in this industry right now. So to

say, oh, yep, this is the best X, Y, and Z, you

kind of look at them and go, well, yes, it is. And then you look

at your watch and you go, okay, 6 months later, is it still the

best? Yeah. And that's the struggle right now, you know, especially with

cost. You know, you want to buy the best. You want to buy something that

works. But in 6 months, is it still going to be the best? And

that's a big question mark for a lot of farmers right now. Yeah,

especially when it comes to tech, when you think about the basic programming you learn

in college and then anything you have to do tech-related in the real

world, you never really get to apply. Or the stuff you learn there seems a

bit dated by the time you get to the actual workforce and start implementing it

because technology does change so quickly. So I can see how that

could be a challenge for you guys. Yeah, we try to do our

best to stay ahead of things and stay as innovative as possible.

It's just one of those, oh, wow, did you hear about this? Did you hear

about that? And— Yeah, shiny objects. Yes.

And students, again, I, I'll share this story because

they're all going to laugh when they come back in the fall. But one of

my biggest hangups was TikTok. You know, no, you know, you're not

making a TikTok video in here. I don't know what that is. And, you know,

I sound like an old person saying that. No, you will not do that in

here. I don't even know what that is. And then the pandemic hit and

I joined TikTok and went, oh wow, this is really funny. Like, this

is, this is really entertaining. So even doing simple things like you

could have students go in and make TikTok tutorials, just a

60-second, hey, really quick, this is how you do this, and

share that out. Like, that, that wouldn't have been open, open to

me at all because I was very closed-minded about certain things. And

so even learning about Different types of simple technology that everybody seems to be

using can all be a possible platform to share information.

Yeah, I'm also the same way because it must be like a generational thing

in terms of the TikTok. But when you think about it, my partner was showing

me a video of someone the other day who lived in the city but was

showing you creative ways to plant like seedlings in your apartment

building. But he was using all the effects that you do in TikTok and it's,

you know, 30-second videos. But I think it just speaks to

people's learning patterns and how they

choose to learn. And, you know, like they say, some people are visual,

audio, kinesthetic. And so there's different learning

methodologies. And I think TikTok is just one of those. And then for this new

generation, I think it's really eye-catching for them. And if it can educate them

at the same time, then all the better. Got to play that

algorithm, right? You got to— don't click on the wrong thing. Yeah,

that's something you probably have to watch out for. So as you think about the

program, And how it's matured over the past few years. What are some of

the challenges or some of the things you're looking forward to in terms of

developing it further? So one of our challenges as a school

has been exponential growth. Again, I don't want to blame COVID for

everything, but we did experience a pretty big population spike because of

COVID and wanting to meet all the needs of all of

those learners that came to us just more unexpectedly. That's

one of my biggest challenges is, you know, we do so many different field

trips and so many different events with students, and we ask for their

feedback. You know, what did you like? What didn't you like? And then to see

that your population doubled in size, of course, they bring people

with varying viewpoints into the school. So it's one of those, okay, you know,

how can we incorporate some of these just really cool ideas that people

have into the system? And how do we have space and room to do that?

You know, we have, you know, high school biology wants to use our research

and development lab for a lighting experiment. Okay, great. That's 6 weeks.

Okay, well, elementary, you know, K through 2, they want to do, you know, they

want to hatch chickens and talk about alleles and, you know, the basics of

genetics. Okay, we need a space for them. So there we can do

cameras, we can do technology to assist that, but eventually you start

running out of space. And so for us, it's one of those, okay, we

need to figure out a way to combine some of these efforts and just scaffold

that same type of learning process in an area. Because, you know,

I got 1,200 biology students logging into my YouTube

livestream about photosynthesis, and I don't have time to

dress up like Albert Einstein. But my coworker's behind me, she's all

dressed up. She's wearing a giant banana costume because she's talking

about nutrients and potassium and bananas. That's funny. With another

class. So, for us, it's more of, you know, how do we make

sure that we meet the needs of all of our students? And then on top

of that, we also work with community members too. You know, so if you want

to come in and participate, if you are a York City school

district and you want to come in and attend a field trip, okay, how can

we make space for you to do that too? So it's a good problem to

have, but it's still one of those challenges for us of how can we meet

everybody's needs using, you know, 6,100 square feet.

What's something you've changed your mind about recently? Well, I mentioned

TikTok. Can I still use TikTok as my example?

It just, yeah. I have a few students I owe some apologies to of,

you know, put your phone away, you're not allowed to do that. And just, and

now I'm going, oh man, they were probably doing something really funny. You know,

they were trying to record something in the lab, which I would typically encourage.

I just thought TikTok was bad from everything that you

read. Or just opening it as an adult, you're just like, okay, there's

nothing here for me. Moving on. And I'm curious about

those media skills as well. And we can chat about this offline, but if

there's any help you think that would be beneficial in terms of

podcasting or just things, just even the

past episodes of the podcast, because I know that I focus on

origin stories here. So, you know, for folks who aren't

familiar, it's— I'm really curious about how founders got started.

And that's why it's been primarily founders and CEOs, because I feel that they

bring a different perspective to the conversation. And it lets— and the

feedback that I've gotten from listeners is that it helps them see that there's a

wide variety of ways to get into the vertical farming world, and it's not one

size fits all. Yeah, we can definitely do a deep dive into

that particular area because, again, it just, it makes me smile,

you know, even bringing people in for interviews because, you know, we're

constantly hiring, it feels like, and They know all about it,

but they've never done it before. And then you ask about their background and

carpentry, herbology, you have all of these

people that have things that touch upon it, but they've never

physically done it before. So it's always fascinating to me,

everybody that really feels connected to farming and really feels

like it brings them a lot of joy, even as a secondary occupation of,

I've worked 25 years doing X, Y, and Z, and I

self-reflected after the pandemic hit, and what I really like to do is

grow stuff. And how can I do that? Vertical farming, that's how you

can do it. So, and again, you can do it in your apartment in New

York City. You could do it on your, you know, 3,000-acre farm.

Yeah. At the end of the day, Sam, what keeps you

engaged? What keeps you motivated? Because you've been teaching for

a large part of your career, I would imagine. And then you've seen

this program from inception now and seen how it's matured and how

it's changed the lives of your students. And I'm just curious, for you

personally, what's— what do you get the most out of it? For

me personally, it's still— and as weird as it

sounds, it still is about the students and their

reactions to things and how they just make me laugh.

And it's across the board. You know, they come— even that student that swore,

Because he was so overwhelmed and excited, this huge purple

room full of plants and fish. And you're trying not to laugh

because you know you have to, you know, address this, this student.

But it, it's one of those heartwarming things. You know, I had another student

play Kenny G for the koi fish because we bought more

koi fish and he wanted to make sure that he was introducing them to each

other. Oh my God, that's funny. And you know, you sit there and go, How

did you think to do that? And how do you also know who Kenny G

is? Yeah. So those funny things that happen all the

time working with students, even working with them

online, there's a lot of hilarity that goes on in an

interaction in a Zoom room as well. Those things just,

no matter what, our power goes out and everything goes down and you just are

tearing your hair out. And then you just sit back and go, okay, well, it's

all worth it because at the end of the day, I know something really hilarious

is probably gonna happen this week with a kid. I just need to get through

this problem and get through to next week when we can have kids in.

Well, what's so fascinating about that is the creativity of like young

minds. And if you catch them at the right time, there's no

barriers. And some of it comes out in the form of curse words, but it's

just really a form of bottled up excitement, you know, that's

manifesting sometimes in curses, sometimes in Kenny G.

And so it's But it's so exciting to see that in youth, like that

exuberance, that excitement, and then they're carrying it in and then they're being creative about

ideas. As an adult, I think sometimes we sort of like

forget the magic of our youth, and I think

it's refreshing for us and exciting and hopeful to see

that in folks that we're working with. It's definitely a different

environment where you're doing something that is so engaging

That kids put their phones down because they care about what you're saying. They

care about what it is you're doing. They believe in what it is that you're

doing. And that to me just, yep, I'll

get up. I will get up early. I'll get in early. I'll work late

because it makes it all worth it. And I think I may have already titled

this episode From Kenny G to Koi Fish.

And I bet the student that did that, he's now at Messiah

College. Okay. I will actually bet that he listens to this

podcast. That's funny. And he's probably going to message me and go, you shared that

story. Like, I still will share that story forever. It

was, it was a fantastic day. Yeah, that's a great story. I'm glad that came

out. Yeah. Well, Sam, I want to thank you for taking the time to come

on the podcast. I'm always fascinated to just continue learning. And

it's one of the reasons I started the show, just because I was I was

just naturally curious, but I wanted to make sure I was bringing my listeners along

the journey as well. So as I learn, they learn at the same time. And

there's so many different channels and roads to go down when it comes to

vertical farming. And then I think the work that you're doing is super

important, um, just admirable in terms of like what you and

the team have been able to put together there. And so I applaud you on

your efforts. I think it's, it's an amazing resource, and I'm glad that we're

able to share this. Thank you. Thank you so much,

Harry. I really appreciated your time having me on today

and also to all of your listeners because I know for me

personally, it's been a huge help to be able to listen to different

contributors to this ever-changing environment.

So it's been an interesting road and I'm sure it's

going to continue to be. So I definitely appreciate you having me on. So if

folks want to learn more about the program or connect with you and the team,

where's the best place to send them? Oh, so if they go to

AgWorks at CCA, our website is probably the best

avenue to go about reaching out there. At the very top, it says to schedule

a tour. We do offer tours in person, but we are in

Harrisburg. So the best probably avenue for 99% of

your listeners is to sign up for a tour, but to request a virtual tour.

I'm starting to build a— I should have one of those maps

with the pushpins in it of all the people I've spoken to, because I keep

saying yes. And when I'm in town, I'll come for a tour, come for a

tour, and I'll definitely have Harrisburg. We would

love to have you. That would be fascinating. All right, we'll make sure all those

links are provided in the show notes. And make sure, if you haven't already, send

me the YouTube channel you mentioned as well. Oh yeah, yep, I'll definitely send

that over to you. And, uh, thanks again for taking the time to come on.

Hey, no, thank you again, Harry. I'll send that to you as soon as we're

done today. So thanks again to Samantha for sharing the wonderful work she's doing

with the team at CCA. Truly, truly inspiring

stuff. And I hope you'll take the time after listening to this episode to check

out all the links in our show notes and see

if there's a way to learn more or maybe even partner with

CCA. I'm truly inspired after having that conversation

with Samantha, and we're looking ourselves for opportunities to work with her and

her team as well. Thanks again to Cultivated for being a

fantastic sponsor. If you're looking into a vertical farm and don't know where to start

or which technology would suit your needs, make sure you reach out to them today.

The best part about it is that their service is free, and it's because they

work on behalf of their partners. So head on over to cultivated.com,

just leave off the last E. That's C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-E-D.com.

Fullcast production and marketing provided by Fullcast. Sign up for a free podcast

brainstorm at fullcast.co/vfp15.

Another reminder, if you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and a review

at ratethispodcast.com. We'll be sure to read

those out on future episodes. Until we meet again, here's to your health.

Thanks for listening. To read the full show notes for this episode, which

includes any links mentioned in the episode, as well as a full show

transcription, visit verticalfarmingpodcast.com.

There, you can sign up for our email list to be notified when new

episodes are published.

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