The sufficiency of Scripture with Jacoby Jordan (Ep 185)

Episode 185 • 24th September 2026 • My Ministry Mission • Jason McConnell

---

me to faith out of atheism in: 2011

His website is jacobejordan.com, and I will have all that information in the show notes, so basically go there and check it out. the meantime, let's get to know our guest.

[: 00:01:24

---

Jason McConnell: So welcome, Jacob E., how are you doing?

Jacoby Jordan: I'm go- doing well.

It's funny 'cause my name is like, um, it's Jacob with a Y, and I always tell people that, and they go, "It's Jacob with an I, Jacob with an E," and they don't know. And it's, it's a, so it's pronounced like Jacobi, but it's like, but people, some people think it's Jacobi, some people think it's Jaco- uh, it's, it's just funny.

But it's Jacobi, actually. But, like, everyone has different-- everyone,

Jason McConnell: was

Jacoby Jordan: not

Jason McConnell: the whole time

Jacoby Jordan: everyone, e- ev- everyone, everyone pronounces it differently. It's funny. Yeah.

Jason McConnell: Uh, sorry about that. I should have asked

Jacoby Jordan: No, you're good. You're good

Jason McConnell: um, anyhow, let's, let's get to know you. Let's, uh, a- I like to ask the question, what's your favorite Bible verse? And yours was actually one of my favorites too. It's the

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: to the Book of Acts, Acts 1:8,

Jacoby Jordan: Yes, yes

Jason McConnell: "But, but you'll receive the power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witness in Jerusalem, and all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: verse has stuck with you?

Jacoby Jordan: Uh, I just liked the, um, I liked the simplicity of it and the, and the witness to be, um, to Je- witness to Jesus, kind of saying the, the focus on being able to be a witness to him and share, share the simplicity of who he is and the gospel and all that. So I liked that about that scripture

Jason McConnell: It's wonderful. It's one of my favorites.

[: 00:02:39

---

Jason McConnell: Um, I've done a whole, I actually did a whole series on the Acts of the Apostles,

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: uh, I love that it's, it's a very simple roadmap to sharing the gospel as well. You know, Jerusalem are the people that are closest to you, nearest by. Then you have Judea, which are the people that are a little bit out in your neighborhood.

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: people that maybe you don't normally wanna talk to.

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Jason McConnell: So I

Jacoby Jordan: it's true. It's true. Yeah, it's really cool.

Jason McConnell: so

Jacoby Jordan: It's really cool

[: 00:03:10

---

Jason McConnell: paint a picture of who you were before all of this. Um, you were adopted at birth, uh,

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm.

Jason McConnell: I think.

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: went through some difficult things when you were a teenager, and that led up to you joining bands and eventually hitting the road. So

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: were the, what were you after in those years at that time?

Jacoby Jordan: Uh, for me, I, I mean, I was just kinda hitting the road as a, as a young, at 12, 13, when I was, started going into the studio recording music, playing in punk bands and all that stuff. And, uh, I just, I really was just looking for a life of a community somewhere where I can, where I felt that I was kind of identifying with more of an identity kinda thing.

And so I ended up touring and playing a lot of sh- finding that, that, the DIY kinda h- hardcore music and punk music and that, that whole scene was kinda like my identity. Community, I guess you could say.

Jason McConnell: Right on.

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: did the music feel like it was giving you what you needed, at least

Jacoby Jordan: Oh yeah, music, yeah, music was everything for me. It was just like the live shows and playing, that was just my m- main focus and drive.

Jason McConnell: Nice. So you

Jacoby Jordan: Absolutely

Jason McConnell: punk guitar, right? Signing with management, getting

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah, yeah

Jason McConnell: playing in Hollywood, I think. I mean, what was

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: like in the inside?

[: 00:04:26

---

Jacoby Jordan: Well, I've, I've experienced both sides of the music industry. I experienced the absolute in a van, uh, you know, with like this van breaking down. Like there was a huge gash on the side of it. We had bike chains holding the door together. Touring, touring in the winter in like Se- Seattle and like Portland and stuff, and playing like punk, punk houses, basement shows, Oakland, San Francisco, like underground DIY hardcore stuff.

So, and making our own zines and, and putting our own, making our own merch. Um, and so I, I experienced the very, very underground music world, but then I went from that to signing to a bunch of management and stuff, and going straight into the... Literally West Hollywood, and like playing the Viper Room, and like the Hollywood clubs, and started getting into the more po- more like pop music stuff and, and bigger studios, and it was like, it was such an interesting contrast.

So I've experienced both worlds. The bo- the both like, I guess, polished music industry, kinda commercial stu- world, and the underground world. You know what I mean? It's pretty crazy. Yeah

Jason McConnell: I mean, it sounds exciting,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah, it was. It was. It was a lot of things.

Jason McConnell: S-

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: of, lot of suffering too.

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lot of, it was a lot of things. You know what I mean?

It was like my whole teens and 20s were on tour, so that, that definitely, that definitely shaped, shapes you for better or for worse. Yeah

[: 00:05:55

---

Jason McConnell: have to ask you about Spook Tales. You have this

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: geared at young adults, and you, I think you

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: dream was to be like the Christian R.L. Stine, and I was just curious where that

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: man.

s and, like, early: 2000

I liked his consistency and creativity and all that. And so, like, Spook Tales is an absolute rip-off of, of R.L. Stine. Uh, it's just because there's nothing- no way around it. It's just, like, you know, it's, it's little middle school thriller stories, uh, based off of a bunch of kids that are trying to, it's like, crack mysteries and overcome their fears in, in their suburban towns and, and, uh, you know, there's the...

Like, there's a trilogy. There's, like... I have one called The Hoodie, and it's, um, this kid, like, finds a hoodie and he puts it on and, like, it starts making him cool and, like, athletic and he could, like, play basketball really well. He could, like... He, like, he gets popular. People that always ignored him start paying attention to him.

He's starting to get extra strength and, like... But then the power gets to his head and then he starts to co- he starts... The hoodie starts, like, sucking his energy and taking over him, taking him over. Very similar to an absolute rip-off of maybe, like, The Mask with Jim Carrey or something like that and, like, a...

But, but it's the hoodie. And then, and then the hoodie... And then he can't take it off and he's trying to figure out how to get rid of the hoodie 'cause it's destroying his life. And so there's The Hoodie One, Two, and Three. There's a

Jason McConnell: Nice.

Jacoby Jordan: Hoodie Three. And so all that to say it's fun. You know, I, I do other fiction though.

Like, I do fiction. Um, I have one other, two other fiction, but one fiction co- that's out and two others that are coming out, and then I'll probably be done for a while.

Jason McConnell: Right on. Right on. Yeah, if you haven't lived through the '90s like R.L. Stine, y- you don't get it. I mean, it's one of those if you know, you know, right?

Jacoby Jordan: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah

[: 00:07:51

---

Jason McConnell: So does the storytelling instinct that you have kind of carry over into your preaching and, and even theological writing?

s were like, you know, in the: 1984

And I think they read them and was like, "What the heck is wrong with this guy?" And so then they ended up talking to me and being like, "What's... Like, do you... What do you, do... What do you think about going to full-time local church ministry?" Like, like I said, "Okay." I think they were trying to get, get rid of me.

But, um, so I ended up go- I ended up going into full-time ministry way, way too early.

Jason McConnell: I love

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: I, I teach fourth, fifth grade at my church, roughly

Jacoby Jordan: Oh, cool.

Jason McConnell: year olds, so I, I

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: you this since I have you. What do you think is the connection between s- telling a good story and teaching the Bible well?

Jacoby Jordan: Hmm. What's the connection between telling a good story and teaching the Bible well?

Jason McConnell: Yeah

Jacoby Jordan: I would say probably, um, painting a picture, but al- also maybe ta- uh, taking somebody to the, to the place that it is. You know, like storytelling can really do, can really paint a picture of reality, uh, especially with a scripture.

I, you know, bringing somebody into the text and saying like, get, having them visualize what's happening versus just telling, giving them a historical document, you know?

Jason McConnell: Yeah, fair enough.

[: 00:09:36

---

Jason McConnell: Um, so kind of moving it on, you're...

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: conversation that happened on a pastor's driveway in LA late at night, but

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: the road to that conversation started way earlier. You were, you were in a band with a

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm ... drummer who kept telling you about Jesus, and you,

Jason McConnell: argued

Jacoby Jordan: argued against it because you were coming from this

Jason McConnell: atheist

Jacoby Jordan: background. Hang on. Sorry, I'm getting echo now. Sorry, my, my microphone switched to something. Hold on.

It like dropped for a second

Let's see Can you hear me now clearer? Yeah, I can. Okay. You hear, you hear me better? All right.

Jason McConnell: I'm still

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: though.

Jacoby Jordan: It got kicked off my headphones for some reason.

Jason McConnell: Now it stopped. Now it stopped.

Jacoby Jordan: yeah.

Jason McConnell: Okay, cool.

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: Okay, uh, so let me, let me rephrase that and we can... So, um, so your conversation, you had a

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: happened on a pastor's

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: LA at night, but the road to that started way earlier.

You were, you were in a band, Christian drummer who kept telling you about Jesus, and of course, you were coming from a, from

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: background, kind of arguing against it. So walk me through that season

Jacoby Jordan: Oh yeah, no, I was just playing. I was not a Christian, not in church, touring. I was 23, 24. I was like in LA and Malibu and playing a lot of shows, and I was signed with a bunch of people, and then I was doing all kinds of shows pretty much. That's all I was doing, is playing shows. And, um, I me- I needed a drummer.

I met one. He was a Christian, and then he, uh, he had like a top hat and like long hair and like he was like-- he dre- he drove a PT Cruiser and like he like blasted... He, he drove up to... The first time he met me, he drove up in a PT Cruiser and he had every window, all the windows were rolled all the way down, and he was blasting Limp Bizkit.

Uh, and I was like, "Wow." I was like, "Wow." And uh, I was like, "This guy's crazy." And uh, he was absolutely crazy and awesome and all these things, and we made really good friends, and then we just started jamming together, playing. And he just so happened to be a Christian, but I was like, "That's fine with me, as long as he plays the drums and is really good.

That's cool." And uh, he played for his church and stuff, and so we just... That's how I got... And he told me, "Jesus is the way, truth, and life. No one comes to the Father but through Him," John 14:6. That was just one scripture. And uh, I argued against the gospel, but he shared Christ with me and like the, and showed me the sh- and his, introduced me to his pastor and his pastor's family and they came from Oklahoma, and they, they planted a church in Malibu, and they really, out and down in LA and stuff, and they really poured into me and like just took me in and, and, uh, ended up leading me to Christ

Yep

Jason McConnell: And then you had that night on the driveway, so,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah, yeah, no,

Jason McConnell: enjoyed

Jacoby Jordan: I was, I mean, I was,

Jason McConnell: telling

Jacoby Jordan: I was rejecting it. Uh, I had all the ideologies and worldviews and philosophies that e- everything was true except Christ, you know what I mean? The Bible is... I didn't wanna believe it. And, uh, I was arguing against it with, uh, the drummer, and he... We were walking through the, uh, through the woods, or it was not the woods.

It was a little hike in Malibu, Bonsall Drive, on Bonsall. And we were just walking, and he leaves. He just goes, "Okay, man, you don't wanna hear about Jesus. It's over," like, whatever.

[: 00:12:57

---

Jacoby Jordan: And I s- I remember saying, "God, show me the truth," and like, I asked, "Show me the truth." And then the next night, I was meeting up with the pastor and hi- his pastor on their driveway at night.

I had... Because I was do- returning some cords, 'cause the pastor's sons would go to our shows in LA, in Hollywood. And then he came to our shows, the, the pastor, and like we... And his family. And then so he used to be a musician touring in Australia for a long time, and then he- when he got saved, he believed God was calling him to become a pastor and leave the music industry.

And he did that. And so when he met me, I said, "I'm just blowing through town." He was like, "Okay, let's see about that." He was... He- I think he con- he connected with me as a, on a musicianship level. And then, uh, we talked. We, we, we, uh, uh, I, I, I was returning some stuff that night, and they said, "Hey, do you wanna receive Jesus in your life?"

And I said, "Uh," er, you know, I was like, "Uh." I was out there. I was al- I was just like, "Uh, I don't think so." Like, "I don't know." But I was like, "You know, let me pray." And then they brought the pastor out. He came out, and I remember he just... He was just... It was late at night, and he just came out and, um, just sat there and, uh, or stood there, and then he said, "Hey, do you wanna, do you wanna receive Jesus in your life?"

And I said, "Yeah, let's do it." Um, and um, pretty much, uh, he... I, I prayed a bunch of stuff. I don't even remember what I said. I... They prayed for me. They laid hands on me, and I said, "Jesus, I repent. Fill me with your spirit." And then in a split second I was filled with joy, and I feel... And I knew Jesus was God, and I was, I was...

I, I couldn't even explain it. And I was, I was telling them, "Jesus is God. He's real." And they were so... They were, they were absolutely tripped out by me, 'cause I don't think... Uh, they've never seen anybody... The drummer never saw anybody get saved in... Like, he was like, "I've never seen anybody get saved in my life."

You know what I mean? He's been telling everybody about Jesus all life, and he finally saw someone actually come to Christ, and he was, like, totally tripped out by me. And then, uh, they gave me a Bible, said, "Buckle up. Get ready for the ride of your life." That week I got baptized in the ocean in Zuma Beach, and, and they took me right into Bible studies, discipleship, the church, and it was so cr- it was wild like that.

Yeah

Jason McConnell: Yeah. And then there's, I mean, there's a couple things there. You did, I mean, you mentioned it just now, the drummer who had been sharing his faith for

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: never seen anybody he

Jacoby Jordan: Yep

Jason McConnell: to get saved, and then, and then it happened to you. But I mean, there's, there's no telling those seeds that get planted could

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Jason McConnell: fruit, come to fruition years later.

Jacoby Jordan: don't know what's gonna happen. The little seeds, do you know what I mean? I mean, and I, and it was already, that was a seed already coming, coming because I was 12 years old when a kid first told me about Jesus. And so it was, you know, I already heard about Jesus as a little kid, but like, it just took a long time, you know, to receive it

Jason McConnell: Yeah. And after the conversation, you

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: telling everybody about your, about Jesus.

[: 00:15:44

---

Jason McConnell: and I think you'd mentioned it cost you basically

Jacoby Jordan: Oh, yeah

Jason McConnell: career. You, you know, managements walked away, sponsors walked away, labels walked away.

Jacoby Jordan: Well, I mean, I was, I was, that was, I'm still recovering off that because I was like, yeah, it burnt me out hard, man. 'Cause like, you know, I mean, I gave my whole life to the music, you know? I didn't go to college like that. I just went straight on tour. I like put everything into it. And when I got dropped by the management, when I got dropped by the sponsors stuff, and I got...

And it really messed me up for sure. Um, and my pastor, thankfully, he took me in, him and his family. They actually discipled me for like a year. And, uh, he had spiral stairs that go all the way up to his roof in, in LA, in Malibu. And we would sit up there with two chairs, and he was like explaining to me how like, "Yeah, man, like people hate God," or you know?

He was like trying to explain to me like, "Hey, man, like it's not like..." You know what I mean? Like the... I was like, "What the heck happened, man? I thought everybody loved Jesus." He's like, "Nah, dude." I was just so excited about God, and like I guess I got too stoked, and t- and like everybody wasn't stoked on Him.

To California. Why is it? Yeah.

Jason McConnell: Yeah,

Jacoby Jordan: So yeah, you know, you saw, it was just like, I mean, I tripped everybody out for my Jesus stuff, you know?

h. I mean, it's, I mean, John: 15:18

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: tells us about

Jacoby Jordan: It's true, man. It's just part of it.

Jason McConnell: So,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: you know, o- once you, you know, once you start understanding it, you, you un- you get it,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah, I had no plans. I had music was it for me, man. And so when everything fell apart, it was like my whole identity and life was gone. It's like, what do you do? Like, oh, now I'm 24, I'm gonna... 25, however I was, and I was like, "Hmm, I guess I'll go focus on another career." I was like, and there was nothing I wanted to do.

I was like, I couldn't do anything else. I was just like... And then, but then I got a heart for, like, just the local church and s- and then I didn't even plan on, "I'm gonna go into ministry." That just happened naturally. So that was a whole thing. But yeah Mm-hmm. Yeah

[: 00:17:52

---

Jason McConnell: So the sufficiency of scripture is kind of the center of your book and your ministry. Um, in pl- you know, plain terms, what does it mean

Jacoby Jordan: I would say, uh, for me, the simplicity to break that down would be the-- everything that we need for life, everything that we need about-- to know about humanity, creation, God, and day-to-day life is found in the scriptures. I'll say yeah. I, I think, yeah

Jason McConnell: Fair.

Jacoby Jordan: cool

[: 00:18:26

---

Jason McConnell: And you know what's funny is that my mom, my mom did-- I gave her a, a, you know, Bible in a year devotional, uh, a couple years back, and she went through the whole thing and... But it was funny 'cause she would send me text messages or call, and she'd be like, "You know, I'm reading this Judges stuff, and, uh, people

Jacoby Jordan: Not really.

Jason McConnell: changed in 2,000

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah. My mom had a good quote. Sh- yeah, she, she said, uh ... 'Cause she just, she's 80 years old. She just came to Christ last year for the first time, like, as a believer. And she said, "You know what?" We were talking about, I was, like, talking about being here in America, or I was like, in the United States and how, the privileges we have and all that.

And she was like, "You know what?" She was like, "The US Constitution, you know, it's in the tw- the 27 amendments, Bill of Rights," all that stuff. She went, "You know, it's, the US Constitution is very similar to, to the Bible." I said, "In what way? Explain." I said, "Connect that." And she said, "It's very similar to the Bible."

She went, "It's very clear. It's very plain. It's very explicit. It says what it says, but nobody wants to follow it."

That was a wild claim.

Jason McConnell: That's

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah. She's like, "It's very clear, very explicit, but just nobody wants it, nobody likes it." You know? It's like, it's, it's the, it's the old quote, the Bible's not hard to ex- understand, it's hard to accept. Like, the, you know. So there's certain parts in there that are ... I mean, don't get me wrong, there's gray areas.

There's areas you gotta, you gotta di- define. There's cultural things that you have to understand. It's, it's, you know, there's cultural references, but it's the universal text for today, you know? The living word of God. And, um, I think that, uh, there, but there is a lot of explicit nature and plain text, plain scripture that, like, people, it's not a matter of un- not understanding the clarity, it's a matter of not liking what it says.

You know what I mean? So, or like, "I don't like that. What does that mean?" You know? Yeah.

Jason McConnell: Yeah. I'm,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: on a series right now called Read It Again. It's gonna start coming out soon. And it's, you know, we, we have a lot of wonderful

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: You know, Philippians, what is it, 4:13, um, Jeremiah

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: These are very popular. They're on coffee mugs and stuff. Um, but the whole purpose of the, the series is to take those common, commonly used

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: of read

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: and few after and put it into context. Because what ends up happening is that we, the

Jacoby Jordan: Absolutely.

Jason McConnell: so much

Jacoby Jordan: Absolutely.

Jason McConnell: it was

Jacoby Jordan: Absolutely. Yes

Jason McConnell: used. So I love that.

[: 00:20:46

---

Jason McConnell: Um, so for someone who's newer in the faith, hasn't

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: with everything, how do you, how do you, how would you help them get from, "I believe

Jacoby Jordan: Wow. So like, so like say they, they just got saved or they just believe in Jesus, but they've never read the Bible?

Jason McConnell: Yeah, or maybe they've started reading the Bible and they're just like, "I don't know. This is a great book, but I, I don't know if

Jacoby Jordan: Well, I'd definitely say

Jason McConnell: it.

Jacoby Jordan: I'll break down a little bit of the facts of the Bible, that it's 66 books. Uh, it's actually not just one book, it's 66 books written by over 40 different authors. It's, uh, over the last 2,000 years, it's been over three or four different continents. Um, it's originally wr- written in Hebrew in the Old Testament and Greek in the New Testament, and how it's a-- it's, uh, the, uh...

All of the arc-- There's a thing-- I think there's, at this point, there's, like, 45,000 to 38,000 archeological discoveries that prove the places, times, and people and all these of the Bible were true and real. So the more they dig in the Middle East, the more they're finding the Bible accounts to be real and true, and the people in the Bible and the story.

And so I would say that, for one, is already taking the Bible out of the fairy tale land when you realize it. Also, um, looking at the, uh, the, the manus-- original manuscripts, I think Julius Caesar has, like, 10 that talk about him. That's like 1,000 years after, uh, he died, and there's, like, original manuscripts, I think 10 to 50.

There's, um, uh, there's a bunch of Plato. All the, all the kind of the people from history that we know about, the, i- in comparison to the New Testament and the historical, original Greek manuscripts of Ch- of Christ, I think there's about, like, 6,000, um, original that speak of Christ. And then outside of the Bible, there's, there's historical, uh, hi- writings of Jesus and His followers and His resurrection and Him going to the cross, rising again, claiming to be God that came.

And so, um, I, the evidence is actually overwhelming when you really dig into the scripture. And so I would, I would, I would talk to the person about the authenticity of the Bible itself, that it's way more of a trustworthy, uh, book than we might think. Or, you know, you can't really brush it off as fairy tales, for one.

And for two, I would take them straight to the scripture, um, and show them creation, the account of creation and humanity, and why it, why it lines up to today and how we are today, and then maybe go through the Gospels with them, the Gospel of John. So there's places within scripture that I would walk them through and tell them to read, and I would also let them, uh, study the, the, the scriptures in itself outside of the scripture, knowing that the Bible is actually way more trustworthy than people make it, you know?

[: 00:23:21

---

Jacoby Jordan: And that's why it still exists. That's why it's un-- it's kind of, it's kind of an undefeated kind of pe-- If it's, it's been a... It could have been... If it, if it was anything, if it wasn't what it is, it would have been destroyed a long time ago kind of thing. And so the Bible has, yeah, the Bible has, has, has, has, has over, you know, come a lot of scrutint- scrutiny and, and people trying to destroy it.

[: 00:23:44

---

Jacoby Jordan: But it's just the more you dig, look at, uh... I would also say for fun, I would say just if everything I just said was kinda over your head, or, or they were kinda like, "What are you talking about?" I would say look at The Case for Christ, Lee Strobel. He I l- I, I'd say Lee Strobel was a Ch- I think the Chicago Tribune, he was a journalist.

His wife became a wacko Christian. He said, "What the heck? She's Christian. I gotta destroy the faith. This is ridiculous. I gotta save my wife from become- joining a cult." You know what I mean? Um, and so as a, as w- on a noble, uh, quest, he went to save his wife out of the Christian cult by destr- by just studying this Christian- studying the Ch- Christianity and the scriptures to destroy the faith and to show that it's not real, to show his wife, "Hey, this isn't real."

And in his search, in his deep journalism and studies and interviews and all this stuff he did, he found that the Bible is undefeated and to be trusted. So

Jason McConnell: Yeah. I think the, I think the book ended

Jacoby Jordan: Yes.

Jason McConnell: "It takes more faith to

Jacoby Jordan: So

Jason McConnell: atheist."

Jacoby Jordan: a lot of great resources if you're genuine. For the, for the person that's genuinely like, "I'm confused. Is this real? Can I trust it?" I would, I would point them to a lot of things. But yeah, but, mm-hmm

Jason McConnell: Yeah.

[: 00:25:01

---

Jason McConnell: There, there's significantly more ancient manuscript copies of the

Jacoby Jordan: Yep, then the Odyssey.

Jason McConnell: Greek and

Jacoby Jordan: yeah, it's, it's absolutely crazy. It's,

Jason McConnell: it's,

Jacoby Jordan: just the evidence is overwhelming, and it's not, it's never really a matter of lack of evidence. And even Romans chapter 1 says that we see the creation, we worship the creation and deny the creator. This is the state of humanity, and we deny the creator.

That's why we love nature, animals, ourselves, uh, peop- famous people, uh, n- uh, plants, you know, views, ocean, mountains. We love the creation and, and other things, but we definitely deny the-- our creator in our nature because of the fall. Which I would go through the fall, Genesis chapter 3, how we ended up where we're at, you know.

Because things... And so I, I pretty much preach the gospel to them, um, and let them know where we're at, and then take them through where, where I believe the Christian wor-worldview is and see, let them kind of figure out, let them wrestle with that them, you know, themselves

Jason McConnell: Yeah.

[: 00:26:03

---

Jason McConnell: Um, which brings up an interesting question. Do you, do you think that the intellectual case

Jacoby Jordan: it's hard 'cause I, I don't wanna person- I, you know, everyone personalizes testimonies, which is a pes- p- personal testimony. But for me, I... People could try to explain to me all day long about Jesus, and I would ignore it. Something had to happen in my heart. God has to, God has to do something in the heart.

However, once you do become a Christian or believe on Christ, the learning-- I got interested in, in the learning of all the studies and, and, and the deep things of theology or whatever and things, and, like, the creation. I, I got interested in that after being saved. But I think there's many ways to come to Christ.

I think some people, um, like my mom, for example, she was very, very intellectual. She's a, she, she's a very sharp lady. She was an attorney. She, uh, she, she went to-- she passed the California Bar Exam first time. She was in, like, the top six highest IQs in London when she was a kid. Um, she's, she's from U- she's from, you know, UK, and she's very sharp, very sharp.

And she heard all the intellectual arguments, but she just couldn't get behind the Jesus rose again thing and the 5,000, and feeding the 5,000. And so she... But it was the scriptures and the, the gospel and, and that that changed her heart. So, like, I don't know. Some people, uh, need a, you know-- People have a lot of questions, and I think there's-- I think we have, as Christians, have a lot of answers that can be answered.

So, like, I do think there's genuine questions of, like, that people have, and I think that some pastors in, in, i-i, you know, have not-- I can only speak in maybe in the certain Western world, I don't know internationally, but have kind of failed to answer questions that we actually have answers for. As Christians, we do have answers for the faith and stuff, on an intellectual level even, I think so.

So yeah, I think they're cor- cor- I think they're both... I think they're...

Jason McConnell: Yeah It was, it was important for me. I know when I,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: we, you and I actually come from kind of a similar background. I wasn't, wouldn't call myself atheist. I was probably more agnostic than anything. but what I found is at some

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: it's like God takes the filters off your eyes, and you are no longer filtering those facts through, through this weird distrust or, or, or skepticism, and you actually see

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: this is, this is a real thing. He's out there.

Jacoby Jordan: Oh, yeah.

Jason McConnell: and that's

Jacoby Jordan: I would say that.

[: 00:28:37

---

Jacoby Jordan: I would say 100% w- for me too, 'cause I see it like this. It's like heaven is real, eternal life is real. Uh, God create... In Genesis 1 and 2, God created all things, creation. He created humanity. He created man and woman in likeness of Him and for relationship and for good, so we actually were-- humanity was created good, you know, for Him.

And then by the third chapter we see in the scripture, right, s- sin and death ins- entered the world. The, the original humans, Adam and Eve, Satan d- deceived them and they, they, we, we, we turned from God and our nature and their nat- and the curse happened in Genesis 3. So our humanity, it's interesting to see, though, how it plays out.

As crazy as Genesis might sound to some people and, and w- out there, you look at the evidence of humanity, now we are in this-- we, we-- our Creator created us and we're hiding from Him because we've sinned against Him, and we know that we're guilty and we don't want... And He's holy and He's good. And so He's love, He's gracious, He's merciful, He's all the things that the Bible says that He is God, but He's also holy and He's righteous, and He has to deal with sins, the sins of the world.

So that's why He sent His only Son, Jesus, fully God, fully man, walked that perfect life out in our place. And just to walk that life out that we couldn't live, that perfect life, and then He took the, all of the death, the sin, and the, and the, on, on the cross and the wrath. Basically, the punishment against sin, uh, that we should have taken, Christ took it on Himself, died, rose again three days later, ascended to heaven.

And then He says if you trust and believe in Him and, and who He is, that we'll have eternal life. And, and the crazy part about that is just that that whole story, the humanity and where we're at, it's almost like on an intellectual level, once you understand that, once you understand, okay, maybe Jesus is real, He was not only a historical p- person, He was either a liar, uh...

What do they say? He's either Lord, a liar, or a lunatic. And, and we know He, we know He was not the lo- we know He's not a liar, and He's a great teacher and a good pr- prophet. But if He's a good prophet, He has to tell the truth. And then if He-- and He claimed to be God, so He either is the Lord or He's not.

And so if He is who He claims that He is, which, you know, as Christians, we believe that He is, then on the intellectual side, in the thr- uh, in the f- few-- through the lens of this Christian worldview, like you said, the scales are lifted over your eyes. We gotta ask ourselves, do you start getting challenged with creation?

We're on a floating ball of rock in outer space. DNA, gravity, like, all the things, the fact that we have oxygen on this, on this earth. Like, how the-- if you just study DNA in human, it's crazy. You know, human DNA is just like, uh, the intricacies of how we're here and how we're alive. And, um, if you study any, any level of, uh, creation or biology or science, you're gonna come to-- you're gonna come-- it's gonna be very hard to discredit God in this.

You know what I mean?

Jason McConnell: Yeah. I know sometimes, I mean, I'm,

Jacoby Jordan: Uh-uh.

Jason McConnell: fan of it.

[: 00:31:26

---

Jason McConnell: I don't know if you've heard of Pascal's Wager. so Pas- Pascal basically at

Jacoby Jordan: Uh-huh

Jason McConnell: of believing or not believing God as a game of chance

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: infinite stakes versus infinite outcomes. So you, you have a n- you

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: either wagering that God does exist or that He does not exist.

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm.

Jason McConnell: for God

Jacoby Jordan: Right.

Jason McConnell: and He

Jacoby Jordan: That's great

Jason McConnell: you gain infinite reward, right? Eternal life and happiness in heaven. you wager for God and He does not exist, lose a

Jacoby Jordan: sure

Jason McConnell: amount of worldly pleasures, time spent on rituals, whatever. However, if you wager against God

Jacoby Jordan: That's true

Jason McConnell: you suffer infinite loss, eternal damnation, missing paradise.

And then if you wager for God and He does not exist,

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm

Jason McConnell: You gain a finite amount of, you know, changes. You know, freedom from religion, worldly indulgence, whatever. So his basic premise was,

Jacoby Jordan: Absolutely.

Jason McConnell: you have to

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: for God

Jacoby Jordan: The Christian lifestyle is

Jason McConnell: by doing it.

Jacoby Jordan: the better tr- lifestyle. The Christian lifestyle is the better choice, and the f- ironic part about the Christian lifestyle being the better lifestyle is of course it is because, because if we're human, if, if humanity was created by God, of course the Christian...

You think about it, we're, we're... Why is it better to live Christian? Because God created us like that. You know, we're intended to, and I thought that was, I thought that's really interesting, too, you know? Because it's like, it's almost like humanity's without... We're trying to live life without the blueprint of how we're supposed to work.

You know what I mean? And, and when we, when we look at the Word and we see who God is and who we are in, in light, light of Him, it makes a lot more sense of why we are the way that we are Yeah

Jason McConnell: Yeah, absolutely.

[: 00:33:15

---

Jason McConnell: Um, so, so you, um, Calvary Chapel is known for

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm.

Jason McConnell: meaning verse by verse teaching, and I

Jacoby Jordan: Well,

Jason McConnell: does that approach matter to you

Jacoby Jordan: I think, I think it matters to me. There's a few different camps that are expository preachers, right? Refor- more reformed guys to, like, maybe they're, maybe they aren't in the Calvary Chapel world, but they're, you know, Baptists. There's a lot of Baptists that are expository guys. I think the verse-by-verse teaching of the Bible, especially nowadays, I think if we, uh, uh, I think for us to know who God is, we gotta know the scripture.

And I think sometimes it's easy to pick, like we were talking earlier, we could pick a scripture here, pick a scripture there, and use it, and if we don't know the full context, then we might be taking it out of context. And we, and, and to know the, about God fully, knowing His Word is gonna, is gonna, is one way of, you know, of knowing who He is.

And so if we just, I think especially originally, the Bible was written on papyrus. There wasn't even verses and chapters. It was just, a lot of the epistles were, were, were read to just be read fully. So I also find it that I'll do a Bible study, and we read full chapters of the Bible. So we'll do a full chapter, and then, uh, in for an hour, and then talk about it.

And like, uh, we'll stop. We, we do four verses, then we stop and talk, and then we, all the questions what we have in the room, like, "Well, what, why does it say this?" and "What's this?" We're talking about it forever, and then we go, "Let's just look at the next verse. Let's look at the next few verses." And then we go, and it answers it, and we go, "Oh, that was right here."

So like, sometimes reading the whole context just gets you a full, a fuller picture of God and who He is and who we are. So I think, I think it's a very, very, very important for the Christian. And that for me, when I became a Christian, I said, "If I'm gonna claim to be a Christian and believe everything that's in this book, I need to know what the book says."

You know what I mean? I need to read it. And so I didn't wanna just fully be like... 'Cause I don't think it's a blind faith, and I didn't, I wasn't interested in a blind faith. Nor were the apostles, because as Peter said, it wasn't a, this isn't stories and fables, this is, they're eyewitnesses to His majesty.

So the, and these are eyewitness accounts. So I wanted to make sure if I was gonna fully stand as a Christian, I wanna make sure that I know what I, what I believe in. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Jason McConnell: I love that.

[: 00:35:26

---

Jason McConnell: Um, someone's listening

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm.

Jason McConnell: now, they have a, they have a Bible on the shelf they haven't opened in

Jacoby Jordan: Open up the Gospel of John and read the Gospel of John or the Gospel of Mark. Yeah, it's the Gospel of John is number one. Read the Gospel of John. Everything else will make sense once you that- once you read the Gospel of John. Y- And after you read the Gospel of John, take it from there. I mean, but I would also say read the Gospel of John, but I would also say find a Bible teaching church and hopefully some me- Bible studies with a mentor, a pa- pastors.

This is why I think pastors should teach, need to t- A lot of pastors do a lot of things, right? But, but, but teaching the Bible because people want... are new to faith, they wanna know what the Bible says because if they're gonna dedicate their lives to Christ, they wanna know what the scri- the, the Bible. We gotta tell them, "This is what the Bible says."

You know what I mean? And so, and I think that's a, I think it's fair to do that. So the Gospel of John, the Gospel of Mark maybe even, um, I would even read Romans sometime. You know, after you read the Gospel, read Romans, it's 16 chapters. Um, you know, see the New Testament. I would say, yeah, get into the Old Testament, but, like, you don't have to, like, just open a random book like, the Book of Numbers, and then say...

You're gonna be like, "What's happening?" You know? So there's an order to things

Jason McConnell: Right. Right.

Jacoby Jordan: Look,

Jason McConnell: I like to, I

Jacoby Jordan: storytelling, eyewitness accounts

Jason McConnell: was a great storyteller. J-

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: yep, John is, is one of my favorites. It's one of my favorite

Jacoby Jordan: Yes.

Jason McConnell: but it requires

Jacoby Jordan: Yes. That's right.

Jason McConnell: Like, if you're gonna

Jacoby Jordan: That's true. That's true.

Jason McConnell: it. Don't just

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: So,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

[: 00:37:05

---

Jason McConnell: Well, I wanna give you time to talk about your books.

Um, you know, a lot of your books

Jacoby Jordan: That's right

Jason McConnell: basically simple resources you were creating for your church, things

Jacoby Jordan: That's right

Jason McConnell: got passed out to people in congregation. And how, how did it go

Jacoby Jordan: well, uh, it went from this idea of just I did a se- I did a series on creation, from creation to Christ, the Old Testament to the New Testament, how it all connects. It was a, it was an overview. And so we were making, I was making curriculum for that, and then we just made it into a little book.

We, we put it out at the church, and a lot of people liked it, and they all took it. And then we said, "Dang, like, let's keep going." And then so I kept writing stuff and doing things, and I ended up wanting to publishing on, on... I went through KDP and Amazon and, and publishing with them because it's fast.

They're able to put it out. I have a, I have a actual, I have a, a formatter named, uh, from, uh, uh, uh, Pakistan, and I, that I got as a freelancer from this, from, uh, Fiverr or Fiverr, Fiverr, this, this, this app where you can fi- hire people for stuff. And I got a guy from Pakistan that's a really good formatter and book formatter, and he formats all the books.

And so I was having... So I would write the manuscript on the Word doc. I'd have even my mom, she's really good, I would, like, have her edit it and look, make sure the grammar is all that. And then we'd send it to, uh, h- uh, my buddy in, uh, formatter in Pakistan, and then he would format it, and then he s- he puts it all together.

I'd put the covers together, and then we submit it to Amazon, and then Amazon publishes it. And then, and then, then we get author copies, and then my church gives it to the people. And so i- it's, it's been v- it's been pretty sweet. So I've been able to do that a few times. And so we have a handful of gr- And it's been very helpful.

People that say, "I don't understand. If God's so, you know, good, then, then, like, why is there suffering? And, and, and does he understand my, the pain of life?" And I say, "Actually, he does." And I have a little book called The Suffering Servant, and I go, "Check The Suffering..." It's a little book, and it has all the scriptures and, and all, all that, um, the sufficiency of scripture.

There's a lot of books that are, that are more encouraging, especially From Creation to Christ. It's a little book, but it, it runs you through, uh, an overview with scripture and how you can understand the, the Bible. Yeah.

Jason McConnell: I love it.

[: 00:39:11

---

Jason McConnell: And your catalog covers a wide range of

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm.

Jason McConnell: I mean, you've got Holy, The Five Solas, The

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: as you mentioned,

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: Disciples of Christ, Secure, The Death of the Preacher. I mean, if someone's listening right now and

Jacoby Jordan: Hmm. I would say if they are, if they are... Uh, maybe the s- uh, the s- the sufficiency of scripture probably. Yeah

Jason McConnell: Okay, fair enough.

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: it, it is kind of the anchor of today's conversation. Um,

Jacoby Jordan: That they could trust the s- the Bible and if, if they don't have one to get Yeah. Yeah.

Jason McConnell: everything we've been talking about, right? Nice. Was there a specific audience you wrote that one

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah,

Jason McConnell: like, the

Jacoby Jordan: I would say it's, I would just... It's, it's for everybody, for the Christian and for the n- new Christian. The, um, uh, letting scripture interpret scripture and showing that why we can trust the Bible. There's a full f- the first chapter of that book ex- in the introduction kind of breaks down the 66 books, 40 different authors, a little bit of the history of the Bible itself, and so why we can trust it.

And then it goes into different aspects of what, what the word, what the scripture itself is to be, why it can be trusted with scripture, you know?

Jason McConnell: Yeah. So How to Study the

Jacoby Jordan: That's right

Jason McConnell: for Every Believer is one of,

Jacoby Jordan: That's the one.

Jason McConnell: of listeners could pick

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah. So I've wa-

Jason McConnell: Uh, and they could use

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah, I forgot about that 'cause it's a little pamphlet. It's like nine pages I think, or no, 20 pages. It's, it's a very small pa- book, but it's, it's called How to Study the Bible. And if you, if you... That really helps you understand how to study it. So yeah, that'll, it, the, and, and to understand it, that, that'll, that's very helpful

Jason McConnell: I don't know. Um, I plan to

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: to your author page

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: Um, you know, I'll link to your website in the, the show notes if anybody's looking for those resources.

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: there, go to the show notes, or sometimes they call it description.

[: 00:41:15

---

Jason McConnell: Um, there anything else, any final thoughts you have, um, before

Jacoby Jordan: Well, if this is, if you're new to the faith, which a lot of people are, uh, to Christianity and, and we're all, uh, you know, people have different worldviews and backgrounds and church backgrounds. Some people have been to church, they don't know much about it. Some peop- nobody gets invited, or they've gone to one and, and they maybe they get invited to a church and they're still trying to figure it out.

I would absolutely highly encourage to pick up a Bible, um, pick and find some Bible teaching local church that emphasis on teaching this through the scripture, wherever that is, and, uh, and, and start doing some reading and, and praying, because I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised

Jason McConnell: Yeah, absolutely.

[: 00:42:02

---

Jason McConnell: And you know, it's funny, uh, you can tell me if you agree with this or not.

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm.

Jason McConnell: People always ask, "What version should I

Jacoby Jordan: Independent Fundamental Baptist. Yeah

Jason McConnell: James Version. Um, you, you... It helps to understand the, know, word for word versus verse for verse, or thought for thought,

Jacoby Jordan: Absolutely

Jason McConnell: um, paraphrase as the three different types of... So, like, if you're looking for more word to word translation, ESV, King James. Um, if you're looking for more thought to thought, you know, you got NIV, NIRV, some of those. And then you've got other... The Message, I think, is a, is a paraphrase, which is basically taking the information and putting it

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: context. you know, people always ask, "Well,

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: right one to buy?" Well, whichever one you can read. You know? I

Jacoby Jordan: Hmm.

Jason McConnell: James Version. I'm dyslexic, and I

Jacoby Jordan: Hmm.

Jason McConnell: the wording because of

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah, ESV and NIV are great.

Jason McConnell: is my go-to. ESV

Jacoby Jordan: I think it's great. I think, I, I agree with that because then we s- we start thinking out of culture. We start thinking, "Well, how do they read it in a different, in China? And what do they, what version do they..." Is there a, is there a ESV King James in China? Is there a...

You know what I mean? Like, it, or, uh, it's just so, yeah, whatever, whatever Bible. Now, the- I would, I would encourage to get closer to word for word. When you start getting full on to the, I think in the, into like the Passion translation me- message and stuff, it could got, or even the NLT could be very easy for people, but it's, it can be very not, you know what I mean?

It can, it can seem a little bit out there. But, um, but at the same time, I do think that, uh, there's some solid translations. Whatever, read whatever one, NIV, ESV, like whatever one that, that's solid for you, you know?

Jason McConnell: Yep. I think a while back I did a whole

Jacoby Jordan: Good.

Jason McConnell: on which Bible to

Jacoby Jordan: Good.

Jason McConnell: if anybody's

Jacoby Jordan: That's good. Those are good questions

Jason McConnell: Um, so--

Jacoby Jordan: Yes.

Jason McConnell: let me see if

Jacoby Jordan: Yep.

Jason McConnell: uh,

Jacoby Jordan: You're good

Jason McConnell: right? Jacoby? Okay. I wanna make sure I say it right.

[: 00:44:01

---

Jason McConnell: Jacoby has a f- has a full library of Christian books. As you can see, they're all on Amazon. Um, you can search his name. Go to my, you know, like I said, my show notes, I'll have a link there. Uh, "The Sufficiency of Scripture" to the "Five Solas" to "How to Study the Bible," it's all there.

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: is, again, jacobyjordan.com, J-A-C-O-B-Y jordan.com. today's conversation stirred something in you, look at his books.

Go grab one. Pick one up.

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: great next start. I think it's a good, good place to start. Um, so thank you so much for being on the show today.

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: with an atheist background, punk

Jacoby Jordan: Mm-hmm.

Jason McConnell: a lot of ambition pointing the wrong direction, and you

Jacoby Jordan: That's crazy

Jason McConnell: Like, I love that story. You've

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: people trust the very book that you once argued against,

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: that I think is worth sitting with. And to everybody listening, the question built his book around, his, his books around is one worth asking

Jacoby Jordan: Yes

Jason McConnell: Is the Bible the actual rock building your life on, or does it

Jacoby Jordan: Amen

Jason McConnell: while you try to figure life out on your own? Um, his books, especially "The Sufficiency of Scripture," I think are, are

Jacoby Jordan: Yeah

Jason McConnell: to start. We talked about which ones to start with.

Jacoby Jordan: Угу

Jason McConnell: deeper, you can go deeper. Um, it's not a supplement for the Bible. his books to understand it. Go read the Bible. Find them on Amazon, um, and then visit his website.

Jacoby Jordan: thank you so much too. I appreciate you

Jason McConnell: your time. Until next time, keep loving your neighbors, dive into God's Word daily. May the Lord bless you and keep you and fill you with His peace. Take care, God bless, and I'll see you in the next episode

Share Episode

Shownotes

Transcripts

Follow

Links

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube