In the second half of our conversation with horror icon Debbie Rochon, Corey and Kendall Stulce dive into Debbie’s storied career with Troma Entertainment and her collaborations with the legendary Lloyd Kaufman. Debbie shares fascinating anecdotes from her work in the '90s with Troma, starting with her early roles, promotional events, and her journey from quirky cameos to memorable lead roles. She highlights the absurdist and extreme style unique to Troma films, touching on the challenges and joy of balancing realism with over-the-top horror comedy.

Debbie Rochon: Embracing Horror and Aging Gracefully in the Troma Universe

Debbie discusses her latest project, The Power of Positive Murder, a noir film by Lloyd that is strikingly different from past Troma works. Filmed in black and white, this movie blends Troma’s trademark outrageousness with a stunning classic aesthetic that has pushed the limits of her acting. Debbie opens up about the special message she received from Lloyd—a heartfelt acknowledgment of her role—that she describes as one of the most meaningful gestures in her decades-long career.

The discussion moves into the age-positive culture within the horror community, which Debbie appreciates for its openness to actors of all ages. Corey and Kendall reflect on how horror fans embrace beloved actors regardless of age, pointing to icons like Kathy Bates and Betsy Palmer as inspirations. Debbie talks about Model Hunger, a film that celebrates older actresses and showcases their depth and intensity, something she feels the horror genre uniquely supports.

Debbie also reflects on her multi-faceted career: acting, directing, writing, and even experimenting with practical effects and bloodwork on set. Her advice for up-and-coming actors is to embrace versatility, explore different aspects of the industry, and maintain a healthy ego for longevity.

Key Topics Covered:

• History with Troma and Lloyd Kaufman
• Debbie’s journey with Troma began in 1992, where she started by doing promotional artwork for VHS releases. She recalls filming early projects like Tromeo and Juliet, and participating in international cable bumpers that gave Troma worldwide exposure. Debbie fondly recounts the absurd antics of Troma’s early years, including her recent role in The Power of Positive Murder and the unique challenge of shooting in noir style.
• The Power of Positive Murder
• Debbie describes this new film as a bold, genre-defying Troma movie that combines outrageous comedy with noir elegance. With a stunning visual homage to classic cinema, Debbie explains how each department—lighting, makeup, and art—elevated the project, creating a one-of-a-kind horror experience.
• Age Inclusivity in Horror
• Debbie and the hosts discuss the supportive and age-inclusive nature of horror fandom, which she deeply values. Horror fans are loyal to their favorite actors, celebrating them well into their later years. She praises the community’s willingness to champion veteran actors like Kathy Bates, Lynn Lowry, and Jessica Lange, whose performances often gain depth with age.
• Career Longevity in Horror
• Debbie’s advice to younger actors is to explore all aspects of filmmaking, from acting and directing to writing and production. The horror genre has offered her diverse opportunities, and she encourages actors to stay open to new roles, skills, and collaborations. This flexibility has been key to her resilience and continued success in a notoriously competitive industry.
• Debbie’s Favorite Final Character in Horror
• Breaking tradition, Debbie picks the unconventional answer of John Kramer (Jigsaw) from Saw as her favorite final character. She admires his complex showmanship and commitment to his deadly “craft,” finding his persistence fascinating despite being a villain.

Memorable Quotes:

• “Working on a Troma film is a balance between extreme realism and outrageous absurdity. It’s a fine line, and when you find it, it’s pure magic.”
• “Horror fans don’t care about your wrinkles—they love you for the characters you bring to life.”
• “In horror, you’re given the space to truly push boundaries, embrace the bizarre, and be celebrated for it.”

Additional Links and Mentions:

• Troma Entertainment
• The Power of Positive Murder (Coming Soon)
• Model Hunger (Starring Lynn Lowry, directed by Debbie Rochon)
• Special shoutout to horror legends: Kathy Bates, Betsy Palmer, Jessica Lange

Follow and Support:

• Follow Debbie Rochon on Twitter/X and Instagram.
• Check out Horror Heals for more episodes exploring how horror helps fans and creators heal through creativity and catharsis.

You did briefly mention Lloyd Kaufman and I'm glad you did because you just worked on another Troma film. Can you talk a little bit about that and your history with Troma and Lloyd? my God. Okay guys. seriously, I have been working with Lloyd since 1992. Didn't make a movie till 95 with Tromia and Juliet, but doing like, where he would recreate like the artwork when they would pick up movies to, you know, slap on the,

Well, VHS then, and then ultimately DVD later. From that to parades to, he wasn't doing conventions back then. So it wasn't that, but it was more like events. He would go to like City Hall's film commission events and there'd be all these like crazy trauma people until they'd be asked to leave, which is hilarious. But we would go and do those things. We'd do bumpers for.

Cable channels that were all over the world. It's kind of like streaming now, obviously, but, you know, Germany, the Netherlands, you know, France, Spain, England, all of these countries had their own cable. And when they start out, they realize, if we tap into the Troma library, it's super cheap or close to free. And we'll just like show this onslaught of Troma movies, like while we're getting our, you know,

sea legs up, to speak, extreme legs up, so to speak. But they would hire us to do like bumpers in between comedy bits. Like, you know, and you know, meanwhile back at the Troma studios, here we are, you know, creating a brain or some ridiculous silly thing just to have in between the movies playing. But of course, once all of these cable channels got enough money, they just like HBO and Netflix, both of them did this same thing.

Same thing, not just Cinemax, but HBO and Netflix had the whole trauma library when they started, because they had to have that filler stuff. And then as soon as they get anywhere, the first thing they do is dump trauma. So there you go. So Lloyd's like, fetching is not misplaced. I'll just put it to that way. He has started,

a lot of different companies to get on their feet in intentionally or unintentional ways. So that's just the way that the truth, the truth matter. yeah, so I did Tromeo and Juliet, of course, and then Tara Firm, a bunch of movies, a bunch of TV, like when James Gunn was still working there at Lloyd's office, we did like the Tromeville Cafe.

We did Troma's Edge TV for Channel 4 in the UK. A whole bunch of stuff, as well as the movies and other things and events. And then ultimately conventions and stuff like that. leading up to, I mean, I always had these quirky characters, weird characters, and I loved them. And I always loved going back and doing a Troma movie because

when, know, sometimes it would just be a matter of like a cameo because it only worked out that way. especially when you're in the middle age range of, of how old you are. Cause when you're young, lots of roles, the middle, there's a few and then older. Who knew now there's a gray role again, because, we'll get to that in one second. But, so yeah, I mean, it was always fun because, you know, even when you're doing theater, like comedy and theater.

You don't have the ability to do something that I term as like within the studying of acting, I term as like absurdist to the extreme comedy. Just comedy that is like, you you're hitting the wall, but now you've got to go like another 10, 10 feet up, not even 10%, but like 10 feet up. Then you're going to hit the bar, but you have to have it, you know, as realistic as possible. And then also go as crazy as possible.

So it's a fine line. that's what you see. Some people just excel in trauma movies and some are like good and fun, but some people just kind of like lock in and they just do so well. It's because they found that really bizarre balance, which is challenging, but really fun when you find it. But moving on to the power of positive murder. It was when Lloyd said to me, okay, the funny quick.

And funny story leading up to that is Lloyd had said to me, have this like really fun, amazing female role for you. And hadn't heard from him about anything business wise in that sense, since Shitstorm in, in 20, I think it was 19 that we shot that. I thought, he's talking about Camp Swine Lake because Wilkeenon was originally supposed to play my husband in that movie.

And he had told me about that and I said, you mean Camp Swine? yeah, that's a trauma is going to release it, but it's really, really funny. That's like, that's a good one, Lloyd. And he said, no, what's that? He says, no, my movie. I'm going to do another one. The last one that I said was the last one. It's not the last one, but this one, this is going to be the last one because you know, this is his black and white noir movie.

Like this truly is, and I have to say looking at like a rough cut and scenes and all I could say is I have no idea how people are going to react other than their jaws gonna drop. Because while you have like the outrageous comedy and scenes and characters and people in the movie, like you would expect, like, know, no matter how mainstream John Waters gets, he's gonna have

his various actors or characters present in his movies. And it's the same with Lloyd, like he's gonna have the craziness there and he does, but I don't think anybody is going to be really ready for, and I don't like overhyping stuff in case people end up, they get too jacked up at.

They're not going to be ready for how different of a movie this is, because it truly is a noir. It's in black and white. It's beautiful. I have never, there's so many things I have never in my life, dot, dot, dot, with this movie. One is the DP actually had two cameramen and

depending on when in the shoot, because there is a cycle out of people available to work for that length of time, because we were like seven weeks in the Catskills. Three, four people just doing lighting. That's because it's black and white and the shots are designed to be that throwback style, you know, not designed to be, we're basically going to shoot a modern movie and just flip the switch and now it's black and white. It's not like that.

but yeah, it's like really a tribute. the artistry, including from the art department to makeup, to just every department had to step up so hard with this movie because once you, you know, even though there's not a particular year it's taking place. So there's modern stuff mixed in with like very, you know, forties, fifties type of stuff.

But it's never like black and white, so to speak. It's never, you know, said, this is the year that we're working in. But it just, I'm telling you, just, I've only done one other black and white movie and that was exhumed by a phenomenal director, Richard Griffin. Just, my God, he's such an amazing director. So that, yeah, this is only my second one. But I can say it's...

I'll put it to this way, I just got a note in the mail from Lloyd and of all, since 92, have never, besides when I got my hand injury, I've never gotten a note in the mail from Lloyd saying anything. I mean, he normally will always say thank you, you know, be grateful and include you in everything he can think of. Cause he's always that kind of guy. Cause he doesn't, can't speak with millions of dollars. So he'll speak with whatever he has, you know?

But this time he wrote me this index card on both sides and it was just saying just how blown away he was with the character that I did. And this should open yet another door to a new segment of acting possibilities for me. Just all these nice things that he didn't have to say. He didn't have to do that. He's never done that before. And I was just like, but I did have

that kind of fun. the other actors in the movie are truly phenomenal. mean, Amanda, Jessa, Adam, just when you guys see them, you may not know, you may know who they are, but you may not know. And once you see the movie, you're just going to be truly blown away. And it was for the first time in a very long time, a very tight group and veto and yeah, on and on.

But I mean, these, we were so, it was such a good, tight friendship. And I think that was part of the specialness of this movie. As with always, you put for seven weeks people from not just all over the country or state, all over the world. There was people from, know, Netherlands, Germany, Spain. I mean, there was people, France, all over the world.

together, there's going to be like issues here and there. It's just the way that it's going to be. But it was for, I really want to say the first time it was not in the acting department. and, and so that, that's sort of like special in itself. but anything that did, go down or happen or, or whatever. and Lloyd loves to talk about this stuff because he sort of revels in, you know,

We made it even though all these crazy things happened. We'll let him tell that story. But at the end of the day, mean, nothing was so bad that, you know, it hasn't been, you know, sort of self-prepared at this point anyway. So that very, very lucky, very, very, very lucky. I can't wait for people to see it. I really can't wait. I can't wait to see the reaction. So I have no idea.

What the, the Troma fans or the fans of people who, know, they don't really let on that they even watch Troma films, you know, or, or that museums that Lloyd gets played in all the time because he's Lloyd and they don't really, you know, they like the movies. It has something to say and museums do like art that has something to say. You know what I mean? So they, they do like his work very much for that reason, but this sort of like.

It was kind of like, it's a love letter saying, yeah? didn't think I was going to make a black and white movie? Really? Okay, here we go. And it's crazy.

Excuse me. Well, I'm sure you're going to carry that, that card from Lloyd with you for the rest of your life. You know, that's, I'm sure that's very, very sweet. Yep. And you touched on something really interesting. And, I was just talking to Kendall about this yesterday. I was reading an article about Kathy Bates and how she was talking about like 10 years ago, like, you know, like the work had sort of dried up and she was wondering if she's gonna have to sell her house. And I'm like, Bates, Oscar winner, Kathy Bates, Annie Wilms from Misery. Come on.

But horror fans, the horror community, they don't care how old you are. They want to see you in movies, you know, for, as long as you want to make them like, know, Betsy Palmer was so celebrated, you know, at conventions and stuff until she couldn't do them anymore. And it's just like people, you know, young kids are like so excited. I've seen photos of like these, you know, kids when they're 12 years old, meeting Betsy Palmer, meeting Mrs. Voorhees, you know, it's, I think that's something about the horror community that says like, don't.

You got wrinkles, whatever, you know, we don't care. You know, we want to see you on the screen. That's right. That's right. And I, and I couldn't agree more. something that I felt one of the great successes about model hunger is that it celebrates an actress who is not a 20. there's plenty of those projects. That's not a bad thing, but I, I love the fact that it got.

so much more new interest in Lynn Lowry. There'll always be interest in Lynn Lowry because she's amazing and she's like, she's of the true icon status. But it was fun to be able to let her go. So meaning go for it. Like here's the material and go, right? Just go crazy. And she did and delivered. And it just goes to show like, somebody, especially if they're like a true actor, so to speak.

and you give them the right material and they happen to be older. They have such a world of experience. If needed rage, right? All of these feelings, they've got so much of it now at this point. That's just like dying to come out. And it's just like, if you could only create more characters for people

that are in that particular group. I just think you'd be kind of shocked or we would all be shocked at the output if you know what I mean. Cause there's so much material. mean, look at Kathy Bates. Look at, Lord help me because my brain is fried. and I love her so much. after our show's done here, I'm going to be like, what an idiot. American Horror Story classic lady.

She started trying to think of, and Kendall will know, the mother from six feet under. Francis Conroy. that who you're trying to? Well, no, but her as well as, she was in King Kong remake. That's how, that's how Jessica Lang. Yeah. Jessica Lang. Yeah. Yeah. Just, mean, I mean, if there's any question about whether these actresses can either

hold or deliver or fill or shock or just go like 110%. Just look at these, these, these ladies that have been lucky enough to have the writing there for them. And they're going ape shit. They're going, they're just like killing it, killing it more so than even the amazing young actors and actresses both.

All sexes doesn't matter. Just if the writing's not there for them to excel, then they'll do well. But you know, will they really do something memorable? Something like rewatchable? Again, we're just coming back to the writing. So God willing, God willing we get the writing. Keep going writers.

Well, you touched on something really important and that, you know, beyond the hundreds of roles that you've played, you you've dipped your toes all the way into the water with all the other aspects of filmmaking, directing and writing and writing about horror. think that's so important. And, you know, you're definitely one of the most prolific people of all time in horror.

Yeah, it feels like it. And I think a part of that, well, mean, not in the grandiose way, in the ego way. I didn't mean it that way, but it feels like I've done a lot of things. I think if the interest is not just of like oneself, perhaps, or it has to include yourself. Let's not get that mixed up here. Because if people have like absolutely no ego,

And they're not going to be able to have the hutzpah to go out there and get things done. So there has to be at the healthy, healthy ego, but also the interest in the craft and interest enough to whether you're writing about it or talking about it, like this podcast right here. And it's beautiful. You guys have got like that particular angle, like the particular thing about it that makes it special.

And different, and we talk about the healing part and that whole part, is massive. It's such a huge part. It's not just about, cause I remember when I started, people say, what, what do people like about horror movies? It was usually the same answer. it's like being on a roller coaster. It is, it is. There's nothing wrong with that. It is, but it's also so cathartic. Like we were saying already for everybody involved, viewers, creators alike.

But yeah, so as you go along in the industry, you will just kind of like find especially, you know, especially, you know, happens in New York, but now you really don't have to be any particular city. I don't believe to have this stuff come up for you. So if you are, working in the genre and you meet people and they see your either dedication or interest, or maybe it's just a possibility that comes up and then you end up in, like terrestrial radio.

or you end up writing, end up, you know, Ultimately directing or anything like that working. I mean, I was even like for a long time transcribing. I mean, it's, depends on what's going on, how busy or slow things are. And if you can just continue to be open to new, avenues as they open up, you know, are you.

open to that, because if you are, you can actually touch upon more interesting things and sort of go down a lot of different alleyways or actual highways, depending on how, you know, maybe you didn't like it and it's just an alleyway and you're back to the highway again. I think as long as you're meeting people and what if you're doing a movie and you have three days off and for whatever reason it's not union.

So, cause don't, Union, they wouldn't allow you to do such a thing, but you know, they'll say, well, do you want to help out with the blood? And then you're helping out with the blood and you're like, this is kind of crazy. I've been doing this for a long time, but I didn't realize how much I liked it. Maybe this is really what I want to do or what I want to do as well or later or however you want to, you know, phrase that or, you know, just in addition to. So the more things I think you do, the more.

knowledge you have about it as a whole and the more opportunities, which is the key thing. Cause if you only do one really, really, really specialized thing and that kind of goes away, like say you are making this up, cause we were talking about age and everything. so you're like 19 or 20. and you just do that thing, you know, that the, young sexy thing. Well, that's, that will end.

That will end, even if you have surgery that will end because people, you know what I mean? People are still like, she looks great. The surgery is fantastic. And some of it really is. And some of it's not, but some of it is good. And so you're thinking, well, but I'm still looking at somebody who is X amount of years old with surgery. They're not 20. So do I want to hire them? You know, that becomes a whole thing. So you really, you can, you can keep looking good and do whatever it is that makes you feel good. I'm all about that.

do that. and I mean, you who knows, maybe the only reason I haven't is because of financial reasons. Who knows? I don't know. I'm not in a position to, you know, make that sort of a choice because that takes like money. But then again, I've never been the type of person that's, you locked on to a wealthy producer or director or something when they were 20 years old to get the roles or security back then either.

So I've always been like that independent guy. and that's kind of why, you know, I am who I am to this day. and hopefully that answered the question. Again, I stay, I stand. Yeah, for sure. I went again. did that again. boy. Sorry guys. I have a feeling Debbie, this is going to be a tough one for you to answer just because of how prolific you are.

But the last question that we ask every guest on the show is, who is your favorite final character in a horror movie?

You mean of anyone that I've seen, like any horror movie I've seen? Any movie you've seen. What's your favorite? Like give you an example. Our guest yesterday said Laurie Strode, you know, from Halloween. that's, been one of the more popular answers, we don't want to, we don't want to know. Suggested. Yeah. No, that's, that's always going to be the right answer because that's the right answer. I would say.

favorite end character is, yeah, it is kind of a tough one only in the sense that, there are.

It does, does it have to be, it can be male or female, right? yeah. I just want to make sure because it's a bizarre answer and it doesn't fit the question. That's what I must say. So, you know, that's typical of me, like given the wrong answer to the right question. I would probably say, John in Jigsaw, in Saw.

And then why do I say that? Because he keeps hanging around in some form at the end. He's yeah, he's the one doing the But he's also, if you look at his showmanship, you look at his showmanship, he's not just running around killing people with, you weapons. He's not just doing that. He's, you know, he's putting like a lot of showmanship in it. And I love a person that has like a lot of showmanship.

So that it is bizarre answer to your question, but I must, I must say the Tobin Bell character from Saw. And at least, you know, no one else will ever answer that because it's not even, he's the killer. So you can't really say that, but the fact that he's back to the crown, that's the end, he died 10 times, right? That to me is awesome. And and, and just love.

I just love his commitment to the craft.

Yes. Absolutely. No, that's a great answer. Perfect. Well, Debbie, you've been an absolute joy. we'll, we'll to have you back on because we've just only like scratched the surface of your career. please come back on at some point. Thank you guys so much. Thanks for your patience. hey little guy. So cute. I'm surprised what he didn't smash up in this whole situation.

But next time, we'll do that next time. But yeah, I would to come We always love a good doc, Kamie. yeah. Yes. Yes, absolutely.