In this heartfelt and thought-provoking episode, host Phil Amerson returns to the Indiana University campus to share a candid conversation inspired by the legacy of Dr. Herman B. Wells. Joined by guest IU Dad, the discussion spans reflections on leadership, recent changes at IU, spiritual values, and personal sources of joy. The result is an intimate portrait of campus life and a call for humility and community in higher education.

Three Key Takeaways:

1. Listening Matters—True Leadership ConnectsPhil Amerson opens the episode explaining why he visits the statue of Dr. Wells: it’s a symbol of leadership that listens. He shares with his grandsons that, unlike current university officials who seem distant and unresponsive, Dr. Wells represented a kind of leadership committed to genuine engagement and care. This sets up an insightful critique of the current administration, contrasted with memories of a time when relationships and accessibility were priorities on campus.
2. Spiritual Drought and the Value of Faith Reflecting on shifts within the university and wider society, Phil Amerson notes a "spiritual drought," where faith is often misused as ideology rather than practiced as compassion. He remembers Dr. Wells’ United Methodist roots and underscores the need for humility, moral grounding, and shared spiritual awareness—qualities he finds lacking today in many academic leaders. The conversation calls for both faculty and administrators to reflect and reconnect with deeper community values.
3. Asset Stripping and the Changing Face of AcademiaPhil Amerson and IU Dad touch on the transformation sweeping through IU, especially the shift of resources away from arts and sciences toward sports and business interests. Phil Amerson expresses concern over what he terms "asset stripping," comparing it to hostile takeovers in business. He worries about the loss of relationship-building and the diminishing role of social justice and racial inclusion, urging the university to balance its investments and to foster a climate of hope and joy instead of fear.

Episode Highlights:

• Nostalgic stories of Dr. Wells’ leadership and the beauty of the IU campus.
• IU Dad
• shares the joy of time with his daughter, emphasizing the personal side of campus visits.
• Reflections on joy, family, sports, and the need for hope amidst challenging times.

Tune in for a moving conversation that bridges the past and present, and invites listeners to consider what it truly means to belong and lead in a university community.

Greetings, everyone. Greetings, everyone. This is Phil Amerson for the belonging exchange. A short episode, because we're here on the IU campus just outside Owen hall, and we're visiting again, my friend, Dr. Herman B. Wells. And, Herman, you've got a friend with you today. What's that? Oh, my goodness.

It's getting close to, well, Advent. Anyway, this is the week before Thanksgiving, 2025. And, Dr. Wells, we want to talk with you again about what's going on at the Indiana University campus. First, there are two questions. The first one is, my grandsons asked me, why do you go talk to a bronze statue, Granddad? And I have to tell them. Well, Dr. Wells is listening more than anyone in the administration these days.

And so I come and talk to him because he was my longtime friend and he represents the very best in what a college or university administrator should be, unlike what we're experiencing today. So Herman listens a lot more than Pam Whitten or the chancellor or the provost or any of them. Listen. I reach out to them, Herm. Not a reply. Nothing. So that's the first reason I can say to my grandsons, hey, Zach. Hey, Gus.

This is the reason I talk to a statue, because my friend is more responsive than the current leadership. The second reason. Well, question you may have is, why am I wearing red? The crimson. Why? Well, Herman, something has happened that never happened under your administration. IU football won its 11th game in a row. A perfect season. You don't believe me. I can tell from the expression on your face.

They did great coach, great players, a whole new world. The Big Ten is. Well, you wouldn't recognize the Big Ten. Can you believe Oregon and usc? Well, I won't go into that right now. I'll just say to you, Herm, it's a whole different world in so many ways. So that's the crimson sweater, and that's why. Well, I'm here again in a clerical collar. Dr.

Wells, we've talked on a number of occasions about what's going on on this campus. And I know last time you saw me in a clerical collar, you wondered. Because I didn't wear them very often when I was your pastor, but I'm wearing them more and more these days because what's going on in our nation and in our state is a spiritual drought. Folks are using religion as a kind of ideological skeleton, that they put clothing on them and they turn it into something that faith never was meant to be. You know, I have no question this morning that if Coach Signetti is in town, he'll be at St. Paul Center. He's a devout person of faith. I wonder if any of our administrators even could identify where.

I don't know, the Presbyterian Church, the synagogue, the mosque are. I wonder about the depth of their spirituality. Herman. And a lot of people miss the fact that you were shaped by being a United Methodist. One who was in church almost every Sunday and was shaped by understanding that sometimes it's important to stop and pray and think and reconsider paths that you're on. What's been happening, I liken right now to a kind of hostile takeover. It's common in businesses. It's common in businesses that it's called asset stripping.

And so what's happened is the current administration and the board, by the way, the board, all elected by Governor Braun, they're coming and stripping the assets of a great school in arts and sciences. That's what's going on. Oh, we have a friend. Good morning to you. How are you?

We're well, thank you.

Good.

We're really enjoying your chat with your friend Herman.

Herman. Herman was a great, great man. Yeah.

Well, we're happy to kind of listen and partake and.

Okay.

As a former. As a Hoosier myself, and as a potential Hoosier.

A potential Hoosier. Great.

So this was really nice to hear. And we've heard so many wonderful stories about Herman.

Well, yeah.

Leadership and his character. So it's nice.

So when were you here?

I finished in 90.

Great. Great. I was. I was pastor at the Methodist Church downtown in those years from 1991 to 2000. So I had the great honor of doing Herman's funeral and was shaped forever after by knowing him. Yeah. So you're thinking of universities, Maybe iu. So what.

What are your interests? They haven't been chased yet. That's perfect. Yes. That's perfect. Thank you. It's good to visit. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Thanks. Thanks. So, you know. Oh, I got one more question for you. What brings you joy? Us. Yeah. Together. Yeah.

What brings you joy? Sports. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a good one.

And for me, it's spending time with my daughter.

Oh, dad, that's great.

The best joy there is.

Yeah. What a beautiful day to do it.

And what brings you joy?

What brings me joy? So many things. I have trouble listing them, but my grandchildren. Yeah. My family. And so many good people I knew at IU over the years and this great man and the beauty of this campus. You know, it wouldn't be like this if it weren't for old Hermie here. Take care. All right, you too.

Yeah. Okay, Dr. Wells, we're back to just one last little piece. And that is, we were talking about asset stripping. You know, back in your day, it was called monopolization. And I know that you did a lot to address business behaviors and banking in your early life. And what so many people miss are the ways that you were a spiritual being, not just a remarkable administrator or a fine academician. I think maybe on all sides, whether it's faculty or students or the administration, we could all benefit now from a little more humility and a little more spiritual awareness and a lot more sense of faith being something that is shared out of a moral center, out of a sense of hope for the Future.

You know, Dr. Wells, the one or two administrators I've spoken with, I would talk about social justice. They don't even begin to understand what you understood and your commitments to racism. They don't understand what the dismantling of racial inclusion programs will mean for this future. It's an asset stripping great arts and sciences programs. The music school and others will suffer, and sadly, a lot of the resources are going toward building tens of millions of dollars in sports attention. And I wish our administration at IU understood that. It's not either.

Or stop stripping the assets of the arts and sciences school and begin to say not only, hey, football is a great thing and we're doing well, but also say, and we're going to be a great school in terms of our academics, and we're once again not going to have a place where people live under fear rather than in terms of hope, where people live with joy rather than a sense of dread and threat. It's a. It's a sad time in that way. Our friend here, you know, I showed you our friend from. For this Christmas time, you would know who made this. Her name is Liz Shindell. And Winston and Liz were among the many people. You know, that's one of the main reasons, I think, that.

That our administration is so misguided. They just don't know people. They don't build relationships. You only see them in private sedans, waving from the distance. You never have a conversation with them. And they don't know the people like you did. They can't tell you where Paoli is from crawfordsville. And so, Dr.

Wells, we end this time just thanking you again and explaining that one more time, we be and do together, and your leadership has been an important guide. Thank you, Phil Amerson, for the belonging exchange.