State Secretary of Ohio LaRose Announces Election ‘Public Integrity Division’

Episode 2 • 5th October 2022 • Common Sense Ohio • Common Sense Ohio

,: 2022

Norm: Well, I'm at Virginia, uh, International Raceway, uh, down here to, uh, log my, uh, poor little, uh, race car in, uh, the historic races here. Um, it's a once a year event here at, uh, Vir. And, um, it should be fantastic. Sunny day, blue sky, and they're already out there on track, um, during a practice day. Um, I've been here before, so I'm skipping practice in order to join my fellow co host on, uh, Common Sense Ohio instead of racing today.

Brett: Well, don't let our heads get too big. Thank you.

Steve: Yeah, cool.

Brett: Thanks.

Steve: Well, you know, the show must go on.

Brett: Exactly.

Norm: Priorities, indeed.

Steve: Uh, so, Brett, we got Brett at the round table from Circle 270 Media. So he's your podcast guru. If you want a podcast, if you want to be as cool as we are, it's really easy. All you have to do is call up Brett at Circle 270 Media.com. What's the best.

Brett: Address?

Steve: And if you were to stumble on to Channel 511. Com, we could, uh, get you in touch with Brett. That way, he does our podcast production. He can do yours, too. So, uh, those who followed last week know what Common Sense Ohio is going to be all about. It's about common sense. It's about coming, uh, at the country from right in the middle. That means that we're not going to accept any nonsense. We're not going to just swallow the BS that the, uh, politicians are delivering to us day, uh, in and day out. And I don't, frankly don't care what side of the aisle they come from. They um, all have an agenda. We don't. Our agenda is actually, I lied. We do have an agenda. It is common sense. We want to take a common sense viewpoint, uh, on everything. And when we know, we will tell you. This is what I tell my clients upstairs too. So you're getting a little bit of insight. When we know, we will tell you. When we don't know, we will tell you that too. Um, uh, when it's good, we will tell you. When it's bad, we will tell you. When it's in the middle, we will tell you that. In, uh, other words, we're always going to try to be honest, intellectually, honest, philosophically, and uh, honest factually with uh, everything we talk about here. And that means that we might sometimes get wrong. That means uh, we're going to be open to correction, uh, open to comment, open to debate and argument. Unlike a lot of things going on these days in the world, we uh, encourage a free debate over almost any topic. I really mean that um, it matters to me, and I think it does to all of us here at the Roundtable in Common Sense, Ohio. Uh, without further ado, uh, there is a lot going on here, not uh, only in Ohio, but elsewhere normally, uh, in Virginia. Are you allowed to talk about Ohio near Virginia?

So that cake is baked ah, the: 2020

Brett: Well, it's got to start somewhere. Normally, I agree, whether it was piddling around with the election or not, we have got to bring back that everybody trusts the system. We have to. And if this is the first step to do it, whether it be damned or not, we've got to bring it back to where people trust. And they are not going to avoid going to vote because they don't think their vote is going to count, or it's going to get stolen or whatever. It has to stop. And if this is a good first step to do it, then let's do it.

Steve: Yeah. Now let's get some common sense on this problem, because first, uh, of all, Norm, you're right, is that Frank, uh, came in here, frank Laurose came in here, and he was all about doing this. And I think it's a great idea. Uh, and honestly, it doesn't make any difference to me who is accusing who is it who or whoever's m accusing whoever. Uh, it doesn't matter to me. I don't care if the Dems are accusing the Republicans of cheating and stealing. I don't care if the Republicans are caring the Dems of cheating and stealing. I think we can all at least say we want to make sure that our elections are fair. We want to make sure that your vote is counted, that your vote is not counted twice, and that people aren't cheating, that people aren't doing things that would cause us, like you said, Brett, uh, to lose confidence in the outcome of an election such that you just say, you know what? Screw it. This has just been as well all over again. We don't need or it's Brazil.

Brett: Brazil's going through the system right now.

Steve: Exactly. And the problem, though, I see here's the problem, and this is maybe a problem that's broader. So we're going to jump off using Ohio again as a common sense way to jump off and look at the bigger picture issues is that I feel like there's this vein in our country, particularly at the federal level, where law enforcement, investigative agencies, particularly the FBI and Department of justice, it seems to be getting politicized. So what I'm afraid of knowing is that these investigators are working for an elected official and they become politicized against the other party. Now, I don't know the solution to that. I really don't. Because you would like to think that there are some things that are untouchable, some things that would never be done. But, uh, when one party is going to use an investigative body against the other, uh, then it's just this slippery slope to hell. You never get out of it. You know, it's always this, well, they're using it for their, um, own gain. Uh, so now we can't trust the investigators because the investigators are partisan. So, however, frankly, we have to make sure that we avoid that problem, and it may not be avoided. I'd like to think that maybe look at it this way. The local sheriff always had, like, when you think of the old fashioned sheriff down south, like the old Boss Hog, uh, in charge of Roscoe Peakoltrain, it was corrupt. Uh, and then you would like to think that when, um, justice comes to town, it's not influenced, politically speaking. It's, um, not partisan, and it's neutral, and you can trust it. So I hope that's where this is. Now, people hate it when I say things like, we need to bring private investigators into this and have them look into it. I think that should be encouraged across the board. I'm not saying the government should fund it, but, uh, private, uh, organizations, either with or without an agenda, need to dig into these things. I don't care how partisan they are. Because at least when it's private, you can expose the partisanship and, uh, the other side can get their own partisanship, and then we the people get to figure it out. Um, that's my take on the elections are right around the corner, so keep your fingers crossed.

Norm: Well, in Ohio, part of the solution, part of what addresses, uh, a little bit of what you said is that Ohio has an inspector general that is nonpartisan. And that has a pretty good track record of going after both parties, including senior leadership. Uh, it was an Ohio Inspector general that brought down Stanley Aronoff, a Republican, uh, leader of the Senate. Uh, it was the Ohio Inspector general that also brought down Bern, right. Uh, the legendary speaker of the House in Ohio, democrat, uh, from the, uh, Marietta area, I believe it was, or Athens area. And, uh, ended his career so pretty even handed. Has a good track record on, uh, public Integrity, um, when it comes to, um, investigating elected officials. My concern, Steve, is a little different. Uh, or I would say, um, maybe it's a twist on your concern. My concern is a lot of these reactions. Uh, um, and we saw this during 911, uh, taking off your belt and removing your shoes and some of this stuff, some of these, uh, law enforcement efforts. And I'm concerned that Frank, uh, LaRose launches this correctly, and I have confidence he will, but I'm concerned some of this is done as theater. Um, Brett rightly mentions that the voters need to have confidence, but you don't create confidence, uh, not real confidence, by creating, um, the name on a door. Ohio Integrity Investigator screw it through the door. The guy sits there, he's got a phone book, uh, ah, on his desk and a cell phone. And he sits there for 40 hours a week waiting for incoming calls. And then they can wave the flag with a bloody red shirt and say, hey, we're protecting elections. We have this full time guy. Um, no, it's got to be somebody who's got fire in the belly to go out and find the hidden corruption, uh, uh, to dig into things that are real and to bring those cases, uh, to the bar. So I just hope that it's real. We don't need another program to lull the public into a false sense of security. That's my concern.

Brett: Yeah, I agree. And, you know, I feel pretty confident from your guys'interview I wasn't part of that roundtable, ah, on that Wednesday with him, with Frank. But I think he's setting the table that I think it's going to go that direction. You're just talking, uh well, it's not going to, but he was talking grassroots feet on the ground, going to every election board in 88 counties and figuring out what's going on. He was laying the groundwork in that interview, and I'm really confident if he can do what he says in that interview he had with you, too, he should be in pretty good shape. And I think you're right. There has to be some accountability. There has to be some reporting on a consistent basis on, uh, what's going on in that department. That it's not just a guy with a cell phone, with a door labeled, hey, come in to see me. He's never there. He's out in 88 counties figuring stuff out.

Steve: Yeah, you would hope so. And then it's interesting. The other thing we haven't kicked around yet is the accusation that this is something it's, uh, trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, which I find to be complete, utter horse manure, because it is always a potential problem, even if it is not an actual problem.

Brett: Right.

Steve: And this is like saying you don't need police because there's no crime. Um, one of the purposes of something like this is a deterrent. You want transparency. I want to know, damn it, that the election is legit. I want to know it, and I want to sleep and knowing it. And there's always going to be some margin of error in it. But, jeez, anybody who watched the mules or the 10th, whatever it was mules, anybody who has heard some of the allegations, take it or leave it, believe it or not. But if you don't want that, if it's not true, and you don't want those kind of allegations, then you need transparency and you need to have some way to ensure it. Um, if it is happening, if it is cheating, then we need to have some way to enforce the rules and stop it. Either way, we need to make sure that voting and elections are legit.

Norm: Yeah. You guys want to talk a little bit about the, uh, Vance, uh, uh, Tim Ryan race for Ohio Senate?

Steve: Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because here at Commonsense, Ohio, we actually, uh, my take on this is I don't want I'm not going to just pick candidates based on picking candidates, but I think it's a fair conversation to, uh, discuss what's going on, because there's been some mudsling head there.

Norm: Oh, yeah. Well, one of the things that, um, came out, uh, again, this is pretty recent, um, and I don't know if it was fancy people that dropped the dime, but AP, uh, News has, uh, an item that, uh, Tim Ryan, who has been casting aspersions on this, uh, charity that JD. Vance started, uh, regarding opioid addiction, and that the charity, according to Ryan, the charity really didn't come together, really, uh, in his opinion, hasn't done enough. And that's the accusation that, um, ryan himself has been taking donations from, uh, the Opioid distribution companies, the same companies that settled with, um, the, um, consortium of attorney, uh, generals and the Native American nations for $21 billion, um, this year, um, settled claims about distributing opioid, um, medicines, uh, in a sloppy, irresponsible way. Those same companies have donated to Tim Ryan's campaign. Ah, a small amount, $27,000. But once again, if you're in a glass house, you really can't lob rocks. And, uh, if you're going to take money from Cardinal Health or McKesson or whoever it is, I don't know that, um, you're in a position to tell somebody else they're not doing enough on Opioids. So that little nuance came out, uh, yesterday in the AP, um, Peter Thiel and other news, peter Thiel, uh, one of, uh, Vance's, uh, financial, uh, backers for the election, has switched its focus from Ohio, feeling that Vance has this in the bag. Uh, we're four weeks out, roughly, and Peter Thiel has concluded that Vance is going to win this and is transferring his funding, uh, to the state of Arizona. So, uh, he's focusing on that race out there against, i, uh, guess it's Mark Kelly, uh, the incumbent. So that's interesting.

Brett: Look at that. Might be a bit risky. I wonder if that's a bit risky.

Steve: Yeah.

Brett: I don't care if the polls are swinging one way or the other. That, to me, just looks like I don't know.

Steve: Till it's over.

Brett: Right, exactly. It ain't over till it's over. Uh, you know, and just doing that, and all of a sudden, you see welcome Pack coming out and bringing out former Republicans, pushing for Tim Ryan, which is perfectly fine. That's her point of view and such. But talk about stoking the fire for the Democrats, which, again, it is what it is. But it's interesting. The money pulled out. That's really interesting.

Steve: Yeah, they're looking past it's a classic blunder.

Brett: It just seems like it just seems that way. Yeah.

Steve: You got to keep your foot on the gas pedal all the way to the end.

Brett: And then so what is the deal with Arizona then? Why is Arizona so much more important than Vances run?

Steve: Well, yeah, what's really going on behind the scenes? Right. And quickly, Norm, back to your comments. This kind of ticky tack, uh, politicizing or maybe that's not the right word this ticky tack, uh, mudslinging about this or that or the other, uh, when you get to the heart of it, it really doesn't matter. What is Tim Ryan doing accusing I mean, unless there's something obvious, unless Vance is actually stealing money, or unless Vance is actually doing something nefarious or unlawful or even borderline unlawful, it's just stupid to say that charity is not doing enough. At the same time he's taking stuff. Like you said, the Glass House, uh, analogy is a perfect one. But I think it's also fair to say it's also probably appropriate to point out is that taking 27 grand from an opioid company, he probably doesn't even know that happened. I mean, he probably doesn't even have a exactly. He probably doesn't even know that his, uh, campaign did it. These things get so blown out of proportion in so many ways. Now, I'm not giving him a pass for that, because shame on him for bringing up the stupid allegation in the first place. And then it got rammed up his backside and broken off, so to speak. But it's like, uh, uh, you can't have it both ways. You better be sure. And I think my bigger point here is that let's focus on the issues that matter, not what he's doing with some charity to try to help. And, um, I think you can say what you want about Vance if you don't like him, but do you really think that he's just created a charity to help opiate addictions as a shell to make more money? I mean, maybe, uh, he's getting some money, or maybe he's getting a benefit out of it. Maybe he's just getting some publicity out of it so he can run for his office. But is the charity doing good? And if so, who cares? That's what the idea of charities are.

Brett: Yeah. It always feels like in this five to six weeks running up to an election that it's every day, let's throw crap out there just enough to make you think, but we don't have enough time to research it. There's an inkling of truth. Just an inkling or smell. There's a smell to it. But we got to do it because it's five weeks up and we got to make people rethink. Rethink. Uh, and it gets old because it's junk. It's junk. Yeah.

Norm: The classic was, uh, uh, a week I think it was a week before the election for, uh, George W. Bush, uh, versus Al Gore. Uh, that one, uh, of the newspapers dug out the fact that, uh, Bush, uh, had gotten a DUI and had gotten a DUI, like, when he was in the military, like, 30 years prior. And you're like, what does that have to do with anything? 30 years later? Right.

Brett: Exactly.

Norm: But it's a kind of dirt that they dig up, and it's supposed to make you think that his character is terrible. And I'm, uh, not talking about Bush's policies, which we can get into all that. That's not the point. But it's one of those last minute gotcha things that kind of completely irrelevant. And, um yeah, so Tim Ryan, um, the AP article said he's taken in over his career $50 million from various packs and donors. And this represents 27,000 of that 50 million. So, obviously, 50 million is a pretty shocking number to me for a congressman. But, um, I guess these, uh, campaigns are mega expensive anymore, and, uh, it just shows you the amount of money in politics.

Brett: Ah, yeah.

Steve: And I guess, uh, the big picture here is let's focus on the issues that matter and this ticky tax stuff at the last minute. Like you're saying, Brett, uh, I try a lot of cases in front of jurors and juries, and there's this idea that when you throw that kind of red herring crap out there, it's very, very obvious. It's almost so obvious to us, uh, the voters that you disregarded. In fact, maybe it backfires. Maybe I look at Tim Ryan and say, shame on you for playing this game. Shame on you for this little sleight of hand, for this little last minute red herring that you're throwing out there. If there's something there, then run with it. If there's not, just, you know, whatever. Uh, let it be. Focus on the issues. I think it backfires. And both sides do it like Bush's obi or Bush's drunk driving case sometime when he was in the military. Who cares? Let it go. Now, if he had one last week.

Brett: And the election is next week much different scenario.

Steve: It's a different scenario. Use some discretion here, because you would think that now, do you just defer to the experts? I mean, I assume they have campaign people that, uh, are in tune with this. Like, do this, it will work. Um, but maybe they need a little bit of common sense Ohio behind them to say, hey, look, uh, it's not.

Brett: Going to work, right?

Steve: Don't be fooled by this nonsense.

Norm: Well, the amazing thing about bringing that up from a politically strategic, uh, point of view is that it goes right to the sentimental, you know, riveting, um, heartbreaking story of the Vance family, because you're talking about the very thing that destroyed his mother's life, that she struggled with her entire life, that caused him to run to his grandparents for guidance, uh, broke their home several times. Uh, he come home, she rebounded back on drugs, he'd have to leave home again. The entire Book Hillbilly Elegy in the movie He'll Billy is all about her struggle with Opioids and how that affected him as a child. To try to bring that up, uh, and make some hay out of it politically, um, that he hasn't done enough to combat Opioids is going right to the strength of his story. It's kind of dumb.

Brett: Yeah, you're right. There may be some things that just kind of taboo. Just leave that one alone. There's got to be other things.

Norm: Yes.

Steve: And if there are not other things to talk about, then there's other bigger issues, because clearly there's other things to talk about.

Brett: Yeah, exactly.

Norm: Did you guys see the, uh, just to mention Yale Law School graduates? I'd love to ask JD. This. It, uh, really would, but, um, a Trump appointee on the Fifth Circuit us ah, circuit down in, uh, New Orleans, um, made comments at a legal, uh, symposium that, uh, Yale Law School is so unhinged, so off the hook, uh, so political, so bent on a certain philosophy that he will not hire any law clerks, uh, for the Fifth Circuit for him from Yale Law School. And I thought, man, that's a good start. Uh, how about some, uh, graduates from the University of Cincinnati? Or, uh, uh, uh, from central Ohio, from highest state, or our law schools up here? Uh, why not? Common sense, uh, uh, staffers from the middle part of the country. Why is it always Harvard and Yale in Princeton? So, uh, fully bully for him. I like the sentiment.

Steve: Go ahead.

Norm: I, um, like the sentiment. JD. Uh, having gone to Yale Law School and his wife, I'd love to hear what their reaction is to that.

Steve: Well, look, we, uh, talked about some ballot stuffing. I want to talk about some fish stuffing.

Brett: I got that too.

Steve: Anybody who likes to fish and I get it. What's common sense go about this? Well, who knows? It's fun though. So these guys go up to the Lake Erie Fishing Tournament and, um, anybody who likes to catch walleye lake Erie in the fall, you get those big monsters. And a, uh, lot of times I know there's different charterboat captain tournaments and different fishing tournaments up on Lake Erie. Well, it turns out these guys normally go up there and they stuff their fish, they catch their walleye and they stuff them full of things, uh, to make them heavier. And they get waited and they get caught. Um, and this is a huge controversy. It's funny because I was just up in a salmon, uh, tournament up, uh, on Lake Ontario with my buddy. And, ah, it's an enormous, um, there's a huge prize for some of these things. And up there, um, if you catch a big salmon i, uh, think it's called the Lotsa Tournament or something like that. If you catch a big salmon.

Norm: You'Ve.

Steve: Got to pull your gear and head in and get it weighed pronto because they start to lighten up the longer they sit in the cooler. And, uh, so it's a huge deal. Uh, and these guys just got caught redhanded. I guess their fish were not as big as the others. And somebody's like, wait a minute, I got bigger fish than you've got. Um, so you would say, what happens? I mean, there's crimes there that's a fraud. It's an attempted I'm, uh, sure there's I'd have to look it up. I'm sure there's some sort of contest, ah, fraud or something that's going on.

Brett: In their own rules, per say.

Steve: Well, and civilian speaking, for sure, they're going to be barred and banned forever and, uh, vanquished. So if you don't think that we need police to investigate potential, uh, election fraud and it happens at the lowest of levels, like fishing, then, uh, I use some common sense here, folks. Because maybe here's the bigger story, or the bigger picture, rather, is that all humans are flawed. We are all flawed. We are all inherently flawed. We are all capable of doing horrible things. And anybody who says they've never done anything horrible, never thought anything horrible, never tried, uh, to do something horrible, uh, but you're just feeding yourself a bunch of nonsense. If you took a pack of gum as a kid, maybe, or, um, maybe you kept a little more on a deal than you should have kept on a deal and you got sucked in. Everybody is subject to human flaws.

Brett: There's only been one that has.

Steve: It only one. Right? Only one. And if you think you're as good as that one, then, uh, well, judgment Day will come sooner, later. And you'll be judged by standards that you cannot meet. That you cannot meet.

Brett: Even Steve. Can't defend you on that one.

Steve: No, I'll be standing there next to you. Ah.

Norm: Well. You know. In the world of sports. So you're talking to a guy that's sitting here uh. In his uh RV uh. With a race car hitch to it um. In the world of sports. Whether it's ah. Lance Armstrong or whether it's uh. Pitcher thrown a spitball uh. In baseball or uh. The fishing thing or a hundred other examples cheating. Uh uh. Amongst people that are at the top of the game. And we saw this with the Lance Armstrong scandal, the doping scandal, they were all doing it. I mean in NASCAR, the cheating uh uh, is up and down pit lane and it's a matter of whether or not you get caught. And it seems to me that a lot of people's ethics isn't whether or not they do something right or wrong, but it comes down to how clever they are for them. And of course I'm repulsed by that. It makes me sick that there are people like that. I would have a hard time getting up on a podium, I really would. And you guys might roll your eyes because you know me. But I would feel somewhat uh uh, sick to my stomach if I got up on a podium and I had I don't know, 100 uh, more cubic inches of displacement than I should have for the class that I'm running my race car in. And I get first place knowing instead of 300 uh, or 200 cubic inch engine, I've got a 300 cubic inch and nobody else had a prayer of beating me. Now, what kind of victory is that? I don't know how you look yourself in the mirror, I really don't.

Steve: But let's talk about how it happens then, because this is a fascinating topic for me. And I've talked about ordinary men in the book uh, on uh how ordinary Germans in World War II got sort of sucked into um uh, the Holocaust, literally. And they were just ordinary people. So it's fascinating to me because you have maybe people are just motivated m I think there's some people who are on the fringes just to have no conscience. They don't care. To them, it's just a narcissistic reward of attention and that's it. And they don't even see that they're doing anything wrong because uh, they're psychologically incapable. I think that's a rare bird. I think most people are not like that. And then you have this notion that everybody's doing it, so I'm going to do it too. It was like the steroids in baseball back with Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire. And when those guys, you look at them, it's like, yeah, no crap here. These guys two years ago were skinny little normal looking dudes and now McGuire's got forearms the size of my legs. It's like how uh, does that happen? And we all look the other way because it was fun to watch. And they were just like, well, everybody's doing it, so I'm going to do it too. And that somehow makes it okay. And then you have, I think, an even more dangerous motivator that, um, probably couples with that second one, and that is a cause. So if you add a cause, uh, if you say, look, Trump is so bad that no matter what we do, he's got to leave office, and then everybody's doing it combined with that, now you have fascism. Now you have this, like, takeover, where anything, any means will justify the end, because the cause is so important. And I'm seeing this now. We're all seeing this now in things like climate change, or things like, um, they want to destroy democracy. They have these huge, huge causes that they throw out there, and they try to, and they will justify doing anything in order to fix the cause. And I remember a law professor I heard interviewed, and I've told the story before, I'm going to tell it again, because it really struck me as significant, um, where he said, look, we have to pack the court, for instance, or, uh, we have to get rid of the filibuster, for instance. Because if we don't, we're not going to be able to solve things like structural, um, racism. We're not going to be able to solve things like climate change. We're not going to be able to solve, um, uh, gun violence. And implicit in what he was saying, that it was not said out loud, is that he is able to solve those things. Because even if they exist, even if you believe they exist, how on earth is giving one side plenty of power going to actually solve it? He didn't say how they would be able to solve those things if he had all the power. It was implicit in what he was saying, as if it was a foregone conclusion. And that's what happens when you put causes out there as motivators for what would otherwise be a moral behavior. And then you would have to ask, well, what's the check on that? Well, I think our founders knew that the check on that was you need freedom of debate and expression and a, uh, check and balance on power. So the executive branch doesn't have full power to do the things that congress should do. And congress has to be, uh, checked by not only the executive branch, but also the judicial branch. And then you can keep it all in check. Is it perfect? No, but at least it's a line. Maybe, uh, a curved road, but it's at least generally going in the right direction. It's like when you drive on a country road and you look down, it's like, wait a minute, I thought I was heading south. And for a minute you're heading east, but then ten minutes later, there's another big turnaround of cornfield. Now you're heading south again. It's not perfect, but it's at least going in the right direction. Whereas without a check on the power, um, I think individual morality, uh, fails. I mean, people are willing to do whatever they can do, either for the narcissistic reward of being on the podium, like you, Norm, I know you cheat. I'm just kidding. Narcissistic reward of hitting the most home runs, um, and getting the most money, or getting the most power, getting the most influence. Or even if you've got this altruistic notion that you even though nobody else in the world ever has been able to solve these huge global problems, you'll be able to do it only if you had the power to do so. Um, it's like, again, that human nature aspect of it can take over, and it's capable of doing really horrible things in the name of that kind of cause. Just go study history. Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini. And folks, that's not that long ago, right? I mean, it's like our grandfathers dealt with that well.

Norm: Yes, uh, and let me try to turn that back to Ohio specific. Here we have some examples, and I think COVID, uh, the politicians and the elected, um, man, I'm really close to calling them dictators, but the elected officials, uh, even at the state level, kind of have exceeded in many ways, they're brief under the Constitution, both the state and the federal. And it seems to me that there is this patriarchal attitude I guess that's the nicest way to put it or dictatorial attitude, which would be a little bit more, uh, accusatory, uh, type of description that has kind of, um, washed over these officials. They seem now they have this idea that in the name of an emergency or in the name of we, uh, know better, uh, that they can just implement policies or not tell people things. Um, there was an item recently came, uh, out that the Cincinnati waterworks lost, uh, power for a half a day and, uh, could not supply water to the city of Cincinnati. Had to buy water, had to get water from another source. Now, that happened back in May. Uh, it's now October, and nobody until now has told the public that that happened. Um, so what if a, ah, terrorist had put some kind of pathogen in the water or what, um, if there was a bomb threat, uh, against the water plant? I just wonder, at what level does a public official feel that they owe the public an announcement or to fill them in on what the hell is going on with the public infrastructure? And an example in central Ohio, where I live is the Intel Project. Nothing against intel, nothing against making chips in Ohio, but again, the public had absolutely no input into whether or not that plant would be cited where it is going to be built, where it is being built right now in real time. And I worry about the governor. I worry about. I worry about our local officials. I worry about our municipal, uh, agency and our county agencies, where coming after covet. They've got this idea now because, you know, uh, it was being done for two years. Let's shut down the economy. Let's tell children they can't come to school. Let's dictate that people wear masks. One week Salchi says the masks don't work. Then he says they do work. Then he says wear three of them. Then he says, Matt, we just did that to make the public feel better the whole time. You really didn't need one. It's just a dizzying array of these kind of, um, top down, we're going to tell you how to live your life kind of things. And then they deny us the information like we're children. And, uh, whether it's the water works in Cincinnati, or whether it's, uh, the governor's office putting intel in the middle of a soybean field in, uh, western Licking County, it's the same kind of attitude. It's like, well, we know better than you, and you don't get to have a say, so we're just going to do what we got to do or what we think is smart. And, uh, the hell with, uh, your opinion.

Brett: I agree.

Norm: Yeah, go ahead.

Brett: No, I was just going to say, I think, um, we're going to start to see the backlash in invoices, like, what we're doing here at Commonsense, Ohio. I mean, luckily, this is not going to last a tremendous amount of time. We have great opportunities to push back on these things that are happening. We're seeing the trend. Luckily, it's a bit more, okay, this stuff has happened, but now we get to talk about it so it doesn't happen again. And I think we have the voices to be able to do that. And I think, you know, as a listener to this podcast that's on your shoulders, too. You need to make your voice known. You need to stand up. We know Norm, uh, was standing out protesting when President Biden came out, but he wasn't protesting Biden. He was protesting the whole scenario of, like, why didn't you let us know what was going on? Local officials.

Steve: Yeah, that's much crap. It is what you're saying. Or made me think of Lord Acton, who's got a ton of quotes and people know the one that power tends to corrupt and absolutely. Power corrupts absolutely. But he said some other stuff that's always, uh, and I pulled up a few of them, and one is great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority. Um, and he also said, there's no worse heresy, uh, there's no worse heresy then that the office sanctifies the holder of it. So when you become like, Fauchy, uh, when the holder of the office becomes important just because they hold the office, uh, it almost always turns, uh, bad at some point.

Brett: And that go right there, leads to why do people run for office, right? Why are they doing it? Is to, uh, hold the office or to do some good by holding the office. That should be the question of every candidate.

Steve: But then what grabs them is the things they have to do and promise to get the office to justify the ultimate cause. It's again, the ends justify the means. So, yeah, I'll take money from the opioid people because once I get there, then I can turn off as Kennedy when he took the mob money. Uh, and one was in North Kentucky or West Virginia. I mean, um, and then all of a sudden, they've got this huge problem where Bobby Kennedy got Hoffa on the witness. It's like you make a deal with the devil to get there, and now now you're in bed with the devil. I don't care. There is no other way to do it. Power corrupts. And, uh, that's what happened. So how do we combat that? I think to say that you're going to be the candidate here's what's even more absurd to say I'm the one who's going to be immune from it, even though it's afflicted every other political candidate, maybe of all time.

Brett: Probably an overstatement, but it is. But it is. No, because we've allowed it through PACs. Now we have to have websites that follow where the money is coming from, from PACs, because we allow legislation to do this.

Steve: And even if you didn't, then they're going to take money behind the scenes. If you think you're the one politician, you think you're the one socialist, you think you're the one dictator that's going to do it, right? After thousands and thousands and thousands of years of history showing that it just can't happen. Just think of the arrogance of that.

Brett: Um, all we can do is ask of a candidate is to do the best that you can in the scenario that you're thrown in, right?

Steve: And check your power.

Brett: Check your power.

Steve: We've got to check the power. I trust nobody in government. I say it over and over and over. I trust nobody in government. Not the guy I voted for, not the guy I voted against. I trust nobody. And that's okay. That's how it should be. And now we have, like, norm, you brought up people were buying, uh, DeWine's, uh, dictator role or authoritarian, uh, actions, as if he somehow knew better than we knew. Um, that little I'm not going to use any name, but, like, somehow, because he's the governor, he knows best, and he's just a man. That's it. He's the same as we are. And he can read the same books we can read, right?

Brett: And even to that level of intel. Okay, so the wine says, yes, let's get this land. But it's also driven by the Chips Act from the Democrats, right? So it's not a one party deal. Here what's going on.

Norm: Corruption. Uh.

Steve: That'S a river that flows across both aisles.

Brett: Yeah. Floods in both aisles.

Steve: Yeah. No, for sure. And again, this is what we do here at Commonsense Highs. We call it out both ways. Because if you think that your Republican candidates are going to be immune from the corruption that also corrupts the Democratic candidates, well, then that's it. That you're making the same mistake, except you just got different blinders on red.

Brett: Um, versus blue blinders.

Steve: Exactly. It's like, you know, whatever. You got the 3D glasses on backwards. But, uh, the point here is that our political system only thrives with transparency and check on power. End of story.

Brett: Yeah, true.

Steve: Otherwise, it can't run.

action in Afghanistan back in: 2002

Steve: Well, it taints, at a minimum, his own credibility.

Brett: Right.

Steve: And it does reflect that kind of puffery, um, back to my trial attorney analogy. It's like when you exaggerate like that, it doesn't work.

Brett: Right.

Steve: It doesn't work. You either get exposed or comes off as disingenuous. Uh, and it doesn't work.

Brett: And he stands at the podium defending himself, and he points the finger right back at the audience, going, how dare you look at my veteran service and impunity and downplay it and such? How unamerican are you? And so I was like, Wait a minute.

Steve: You don't test too loudly.

Brett: Oh, my gosh. That press conference was totally that. It wasn't thinking. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Even the Air Force doesn't know where you are. Which, again, blows my mind. They know where we are, 24/7 in this country, but they don't know where he was.

Steve: Yeah, you would think. And it seems like Biden gets caught with something like this almost every day. Uh, he said the other day that he had endured a horrible fire and lost, like, a small kitchen fire. It's like, these guys, you don't need to do this. No, just tell the damn truth.

Brett: Exactly. He served, and we respect that. You don't have to say you saw combat when you didn't use it.

Steve: Use it as a primer and say, I served, I loaded planes. I have the utmost respect for those who had to go. It's like, whatever. Use it as a platform to, uh, say things that are positive.

could as well be back in the: 2020

Steve: Dude, you didn't need to do it.

Brett: You didn't need to do it.

Steve: Yeah, you didn't need to do it.

Norm: Uh, there's a long tradition of politicians exaggerating or inventing, um, combat action. Uh, probably the biggest, most recent example is Richard Blumenthal, US. Senator who claimed that he served in Vietnam, but he never even went there. I mean, something pretty easy to check, right? And he had to apologize for that. And, um, really, he should have resigned, but instead he's still there. Uh, remember when Hillary said that she was dodging bullets when she got off the plane? And I forget whether it was Iraq or wherever it was, you could even go all the way back to LBJ. LBJ was on a plane that I think was in a group of planes in the Pacific theater during World War II, and some Japanese Zero fighters or something came through the formation, shot up a couple of the planes, apparently not his, but because he was in that, he wanted an Air medal and really petitioned the Pentagon. Hard to give him a medal so that he could come back and say he's a decorated veteran and all that. And then there's, uh, of course, the John Kennedy thing. A lot of people thought that he really should have been kicked out for PT 109. Uh, what was he doing parked in the middle of a lane where the Japanese were steaming through at full speed, and he got his boat cut in half. So, you know, he was heroic after the incident, saving people's lives. But there are some people that feel like his father, Joe, got him excused from being tossed out of the military for, uh, incompetence. So politics and military service. Yeah, they kind of, uh, they're bedfellows, that's for sure.

Steve: If you have to ask for a medal, then you probably don't deserve it, right?

Brett: Well, I've never heard the story about John Glenn, but it came out today, and it's a spotlight on, uh, the first shot to the moon. Stuff like that with the three guys. And the guys with him really were kind of jealous of John Glenn's record. And maybe you guys have heard the story before, but apparently in one combat mission, glenn was searching for somebody that was down, couldn't find him, but was running out of fuel. Did one more pass. I think they may have found the guy. They marked it and that sort of thing. But he was so low on fuel, he flew up like 70,000ft or something like that. Ran out of fuel and glided back in to safety. Uh, um, that's how smart this dude was. And knowing how to do that, that's incredible that he pushed it to the limit to find this guy that was down and knew how far up to fly to make it ran and to make it home.

Steve: What's interesting to me is that's freaking amazing you don't know that story because he wasn't on the pulpit touting it.

Brett: Right.

Steve: And it's like, uh, there's a guy named Dick Winners. Anybody who watched Band of brothers knows who he was. But his grandson, I guess, um, if I'm butchering the story, forgive me, the point will be the same. My grandson, or somebody asked him, like, grandpa, were you a hero in World War II? No, but I served in a company of heroes. Right. He's not proud in that way. It was just like the job you had to do.

Brett: You had to do it.

Steve: It gives me chills even thinking of that quote, because it reflects a character that goes far beyond anybody who lies about, uh, their heroic endeavors.

Brett: Exactly. There are some men and women that truly, truly did some great stuff.

Steve: And they don't talk about it, and.

Brett: They don't talk about it, and they.

Steve: Don'T have to talk about it. It makes them even greater.

Brett: Right.

Steve: It makes them even greater at a level that these idiots on the pulpit could never comprehend. It's jealousy. It is not jealous.

needed to do at that time in: 2002

Steve: Ask anybody that studies, uh, World War II how important the supply chains were.

Brett: Exactly. So anyway, yeah, that's my rant.

Steve: Um, all right. A couple of things going on, uh, in Ohio. The road and trial is in full force down there in Pike County. Remember, one family killed the other. I mean, really, the most bloody, gruesome, tragic thing. It got so much national news for a while, and it's sort of just gone unreported. Uh, I mean, it's out there, but it's not getting a whole lot of policy. But the trials going on there's witnesses testifying. So I'm going to follow that. And we'll talk about the verdict if when it comes, and then there's more even after that. Uh, m, they'll be making movies about that story, uh, at some juncture in the future, because, uh, it was such a bloody massacre. The local corruptness is that a word?

Norm: Mhm?

Steve: Local, uh, corrupt involvement. Uh, I've always said there's no way on the planet that that kind of operation could exist without somebody in law enforcement knowing about it, looking the other way, or being involved in it in some way, shape or form. So follow, uh, that road and verdict. Uh, what else you got for norms and nuggets out there, Norm?

Norm: Well, yes, the rodent thing reminds me of, uh, the Hatfields and McCoy. It's Ohio's version of that, modern version of that. And, uh, what occurred to me was how secretive, uh, the, uh, uh, BCI, ah, and the governor's office were during that entire thing. I just got the impression that there was some kind of political corruption or some kind of misfeasances or malfeasance by local law enforcement wrapped up in that. And I guess maybe we'll find out if that's so. Um, I hope not, but it seemed like there was something bigger there. And I don't mean to play down that, you know, the lives lost, but something beyond just the murders. Um, and I'm not fully engaged on that story, but I hope the truth comes out about that.

Steve: Yeah, I talked to one of the lawyers involved a while back, and everybody is pretty tight lipped about it, rightfully so. I mean, there's gag orders involved and the press has not been privy, uh, to a whole lot of information about it. But, um, I predicted as soon as that thing hit the news, I think, on Lawyer Talk that, uh, there's got to be local, uh, law enforcement corruption, because it's just such a small place that you can't exist with that kind of criminal enterprise without somebody getting a whiff of it. Everybody talks.

Norm: And you did do a, uh, Dukes of Hazard reference earlier in the show, Speed, which just about killed me.

Steve: Yeah, you can't say you can't like the Dukes anymore.

Norm: It's not woke, uh, them dad burn Duke boys. I thought this was an interesting item. Uh, a judge up in Cleveland ordered the city of Cleveland to refund income taxes for a doctor that was working remotely during COVID Um, and I like that story because I'm kind of thinking that there's millions and millions and millions of dollars that other taxpayers would probably like to get back. Uh, people that works, like, traditionally in a big tower, say, in downtown Columbus, that the city of Columbus collected their income taxes when those people weren't even down there, they were working out of their homes. And I, uh, don't know, whatever Hannah or Reynoldsburg or, uh, if they lived in Cincinnati instead of working at the Karoo Tower, you know, they were out in Delhi. Or if this doctor was probably like in Shaker Heights or somewhere and not in Cleveland. And he's working out of his office at home. And, uh, he succeeded in getting his income taxes refunded by court order from the city of Cleveland, Ohio. And I got to be thinking that somebody like, uh, LeBron James is probably scratching his head, wondering, uh, hey, if I still lived in Cleveland, um, uh, if I'm playing basketball out of town, do I really owe income taxes, uh, to Cleveland? Because I worked, uh, say, in Arizona playing, uh, their team or down in Miami or wherever he played when he was with, uh, the Cavaliers. So this has a lot of interesting implications. Uh, I don't know if it's going to be confined to just the facts in this one case, but it's an interesting precedent.

Steve: Yeah, it's funny you brought this up because I talked to, uh, my accountant, Glenn Harper, with Harper Plus CPA, uh, and I've asked him if he would like to participate periodically in the show here, because these are the kind of issues that come up on, uh, a regular. And I think a lot of people that listen to this kind of stuff that like our content are, uh, small business owners, are, uh, entrepreneurs, and, uh, this is the kind of thing you'd be interested in. But immediately it makes me say, well, a couple of things, Norm, just to give that some backdrop. There's this thing I hate her. She's one of my least favorite people in the world. Her name is Rita, which is stands for a reasonable income tax.

Brett: They are a pain in the ass.

Steve: If you work in one place and live in another, you get these tax bills like Rita. What the heck is that? And it makes me think that if these, uh, politicians running the government, um, might be less likely to shut down their cities for political pandemic reasons. If they couldn't get their tax money by forcing people out of their downtown offices. It's like this is the kind of stuff that will this is a check and balance. When the people get screwed and the people use the system I'm not talking about rioting. I'm talking about using the system legitimately to get some redress for it. When the people get screwed, the government stays in check. They shut everybody down. They forced us into our holes in the ground at home to work from home. If you were lucky enough to be able to do that and not make any money in the worst case scenarios, um, and then they still wanted to get tax from this guy. And I'm not saying he didn't know his tax or did those taxes. I'm not going to take a position on it. But the fact is, the judge says now that he didn't. And, uh, the city has got a consequence. It's like your kids. Once again, you've left your shoes in the middle of. Floor and I've tripped over them. If there's no consequence, they're going to keep doing it. So now the government has been delivered a consequence. You can't get my money nana, nana and, uh, dairy to try it again. Because now, like you said, Norm, we're all wise to it. And, uh, we're all going to, uh, challenge it. And I'm not suggesting we go riot and shut down cities, folks. That's not what I'm saying. We have a court system. We have a process. Learn it, use it. It's not the most efficient. In fact, maybe far from it, but at least it's an option that you can use. We have the ability still, knock on wood, to use the structure, use the system, use what we, the people have created to get redressed for the wrongs of the government.

Brett: Well, and it worked for home from home. I just saw an article, too, that this is a reality. We're going to have to really rethink about where you're working and who you're owing your taxes to, because, um, a group representing, uh, disabilities, uh, that workforce is increasing big time because the work from home opportunities are there for them. So these ladies and gentlemen who are in wheelchairs are now finding more work than ever because they can work from home. So that tax implication right there comes into play. We're going to figure this out.

Steve: It matters. It matters and it'll happen. This is why I tell Jay, the former executive of the show, it's like he's always griping about this. And I said, dude, the system is slow, but it'll catch up. The justice system is slow, but sooner or later, the litigants will catch up. The process will work. Hopefully, it works fast enough before the authoritarian shut it down. But, um, there's always a consequence. It's always right around the corner. So, uh, you can't just have it both ways. As a governmental entity, you can't get your political clout and expect to have everybody just go along with it when you're doing stuff that's not right. Um, well, we got about an hour in, Norm. I think we're going to cut it off there. Uh, again, this has been common since Ohio. Oh, there is one more thing I wanted to share, and, um, I sent this out to you guys. I think it's a great backdrop for the show. And I'm going to read the quote before I give the source, but, uh, see to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world. And then I'll finish it rather than on Christ. All right, so that's from clause, uh, two, chapter eight. And it caught me because I think what Paul is saying there is that, uh, there's so many forces, there are so many things that we get hung up on here in the world that force us to not use our common sense to not use, um, our God given ability to analyze problems and look at them for what they are. Um, and I'm not going to preach or pound the table here because obviously this came from the Bible and you can see where I am with that. But I think, as I said, uh, years ago, even before I became a Christian, at least the way I am now, I always said, read the Bible because there's so much in there, there are so many lessons in there. There's so many things in there that describe human existence in such a perfect way that gives us a little bit of understanding of who we are. Um, and you don't have to go so far if you don't want to, uh, go full fledged into Christianity, but I encourage you to read it. And, uh, guess what? It just may happen anyway if you do. But, um, it caught me when I read that the other day that, uh, this is really why we want Common Sense, Ohio. We want to create a platform where we can look at stuff and really try to reason through it with what we know is truth. And, uh, we know we all have the innate ability to see it. Where that comes from, we can debate later, um, but we all have the ability to see it. Don't get fooled by the acts of evil men, maybe, is the lesson. So, uh, Norm, now we can hear the race cars in the background buzzing by, which is pretty cool.

Norm: Yeah, well, uh, I'll be jumping in mine, uh, early tomorrow morning, uh, going for the checker. I have two races this weekend and, um, yes, I'm going to full throttle, hammer down, going for it. Um, uh, I like the field of combat. I like, uh, embracing the challenge. I, um, like what it does for my character, uh, trying to be excellent at something and bringing my best game. So, um, I think that's important for all of us, uh, in our own ways, whether it's writing a legal brief or whether it's, uh, doing some other activity, that we all have our own little spheres that we try to do things, um, and, um, be great at it. And, uh, my dad had an expression. He says you're aiming somewhere. It takes very little extra energy to aim high rather than just aim low because you're going to go somewhere, you might as well aim high. You might as well do your best, you might as well go for it. So that's my philosophy. Uh, I'm honoring my father and my mother and, um, trying to do my best at everything I do, whether it's sweeping the garage or whether it's out on the race track, uh, trying to compete for, uh, the checkered flag.

Steve: Well, awesome. Good luck out there. Don't cheat. Yes.

Norm: I won't.

Steve: He won't. All right, so there's been another episode, uh, of Lawyer Talkscompetencecentohio. Again, we're running in parallel for a while here until everybody gets the gist of what's happening. And, uh, there'll be some big announcements on Web pages. It's in the development. We've got great marketing folks working with us, uh, all the way down in Florida. We're going to call that common sense florida. Soon enough, probably this thing will take off to every state, I promise. Uh, sort of. Uh, anyway, the idea here is we're going to take Common Sense go look at what's going on in Ohio. Uses a leaping off point because Ohio is right in the middle, and so is our podcast, Common Sense Ohio. If you have questions, you have concerns, you don't like what we said, you disagree with this, that or the other. Or maybe if you do disagree, go, uh, for now, to Lawyeralk.com podcast. You can submit your comments there. I've always got my, uh, other podcast going, so tune in. You're not going to lose any of that content. I'm, uh, going to keep delivering it as much as I conceivably can and as norm. I will do the best I can to get it to you, uh, with the most efficiency. So, uh, with that, we are Common Sense Ohio, until now.

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