Almost every preconception conversation leaves out half the equation. In this episode, part of our Trimester Zero festival, Dr. Kelsy Vick sits down in person with Camryn Novak, co founder of the men's fertility and performance brand TIES, to finally talk about male fertility. They cover the top reasons men contribute to infertility, why the male factor stays so invisible even though men are involved in about half of infertility cases, and what actually supports sperm health, from lifestyle to the nutrients men tend to be missing. Camryn also breaks down what it really takes to build a supplement company you can trust. This is the side of the fertility story you and your partner deserve to hear.

Links:

TIES website: https://www.allourties.com/

TIES Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/allourties/

TIES Instagram post mentioned in episode: https://www.instagram.com/p/DbHPtjBiUA6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

TIES TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@allourties

TIES on X: https://x.com/tiesnutrition

TIES LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allourties

Camryn Novak on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camryn-novak

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We can't chat trimester zero

without chatting about the

2

other 50% of the equation.

3

So today we're talking male fertility,

what preconception care for men actually

4

looks like, and the real research

on sperm health and sperm quality

5

that most guys have never heard of.

6

Today's guest and her husband

lived this gap firsthand.

7

As Cam and Luke Novak were thinking

about next steps for their own family,

8

they realized Cam had a whole world of

preconception care built for her, and

9

Luke had nothing, so they built Ties, a

men's fertility and performance supplement

10

company, out of that realization.

11

We chat all about it today, but Cam and

I both agree this might be the one area

12

where men's health education and knowledge

and research lags furthest behind women's.

13

So I was really excited to sit down

and learn all about it from her today.

14

With that, Cam Novak, welcome

to Wellness Fixes the Pod.

15

Kelsy: so let's state the obvious.

16

We are two women about to have a

conversation about male fertility.

17

Yes.

18

So give me a little rundown on why you

and Luke decided the male fertility

19

space was something you wanted to tackle.

20

Cam Novak: Yeah of course.

21

I'm so happy to be here.

22

Thank you for having me on.

23

It was really a part of our own journey.

24

And just a little bit of our

background, we were both working

25

in just traditional business jobs.

26

I was in consulting.

27

Luke was in investment banking.

28

He went then into health

and wellness investment.

29

I was working in sports investment.

30

We really weren't focused in building

a supplement company in any sense.

31

But our own journey, we were just wanting

to be proactive with our fertility.

32

Me specifically, you know, I'd

gone through periods of my life

33

where I didn't have a period.

34

I was trying to figure out why that was.

35

I was getting into the literature.

36

I was listening to podcasts, meeting with

my OB, a lot of different things there.

37

And as we got more into the weeds on

this, Luke asked the question, "Is

38

there anything I should be doing?"

39

And we got into it truly from a

personal research sense, and started

40

to find some really crazy stats.

41

We saw that male factors contribute

to 50% of infertility cases, saw that

42

total sperm counts have decreased over

43

wasn't proactive protocols and products

for men like there were for women.

44

I'm taking all these different

prenatals, doing all this stuff.

45

And not to dig on him, he certainly

wasn't intentionally sitting on his

46

hands, but Luke wasn't doing anything.

47

And this started this deep dive

into male fertility and into this

48

concept of, hey, maybe we should

have something that we wanna use.

49

Maybe others would need this as well.

50

Why isn't this space more prominent?

51

Why doesn't this exist?

52

And let's build something in this.

53

Kelsy: people focus on pregnancy and

postpartum and what the woman can

54

do, which is why I'm so glad to have

you on, because there's 50%, there's

55

a whole other side of the equation.

56

Yes.

57

And there's so much more research

coming out now about how the male side

58

of things affects the female symptoms,

but also the health of the baby, which

59

is- Yes … extremely important when

we're talking about not only women's

60

health, but also the health of the baby.

61

Cam Novak: It actually was one of the

biggest eye-opening moments for Luke,

62

and then myself as well, honestly,

was looking at, it's not just about

63

if you can get pregnant, it's also

about pregnancy success and the health

64

and development of the future child.

65

And Luke will say this when

he's talking about Ties as well.

66

He said, like- If more men knew,

wow, my health before conception

67

can directly impact the health of

my kid I would be doing something.

68

Looking backwards, of course you'd

prep now if you knew something

69

could help your kid in the future.

70

And that was such a crazy unlock as well,

'cause we really just haven't talked about

71

this topic, and there hasn't been that

much historical research in this space.

72

And now we're seeing a lot of doctors,

a lot of different people talking

73

about this, which is awesome to see.

74

Kelsy: But still not enough.

75

I feel like it's still- Certainly

76

something where if you're

not in the space, people are

77

like, "Oh yeah, of course.

78

That makes sense."

79

Yeah.

80

Cam Novak: Yeah.

81

Kelsy: So when we talk about

male fertility and sperm health

82

and the male factor, what do

those phrases actually mean?

83

Cam Novak: Yeah, it's actually a

great question, 'cause I do think,

84

and certainly we see there's so much

out there about male fertility, and

85

I see that 'cause of my algorithm.

86

Yes.

87

So I'm used to talking

about this all the time.

88

Exactly.

89

But some of it is quite jarring and just

different from what we see out there.

90

W- when we're talking about

male fertility, we're really

91

just talking about sperm health.

92

So what is the makeup of the sperm that is

then helping with conception, and then is

93

obviously the creation of the baby and the

development that's gonna go from there.

94

When we think about sperm health,

I think it's a really interesting

95

conversation, 'cause a lot of

doctors have talked about how sperm

96

health could be another vital sign.

97

'Cause it really is a dashboard

into men's overall health.

98

And so the conversation is, hey, should

we be doing an, a semen analysis for

99

just a general health checkup on men?

100

'Cause it could be an indicator of a

lot of other things going on as well,

101

which I think is a really interesting

conversation probably for another

102

day as well about everything there.

103

But the reality is sperm health is a

reflection of a man's overall health.

104

So a lot of the things that we can do

to improve our sperm health are truly

105

improving our overall health as well.

106

And I think that's a great

conversation for a lot of men to at

107

least get this conversation started

for them, even if they're not at

108

a fertility stage of their life.

109

Kelsy: It mirrors the female side

of the equation, where our menstrual

110

cycle is considered a vital sign.

111

That's what I always hear in the

women's health space, is your

112

menstrual cycle is a vital sign.

113

If things are off with your period, the

physical sign, but also even the more

114

subjective signs of, mood swings or

things that people start to report- Yeah

115

that's a vital sign.

116

So I like that you mirrored that.

117

I hadn't heard about sperm health

being, and a semen analysis being

118

that separate vital sign for men.

119

I love that- Yeah … that mirroring

that, metaphor that ties into

120

the female side of things, too.

121

Cam Novak: Yeah.

122

It's a, it's an interesting conversation.

123

One of our medical advisors, he Dr.

124

Colettis, he was trained in male

fertility at the Cleveland Clinic.

125

He's been on a lot of boards

focused on how just the US health in

126

general approaches male fertility.

127

He's really great and very passionate

about the subject, and he specifically

128

was the one that framed this for us around

how we really need to make sure we don't

129

miss that we're thinking of whole body

health when we're talking about sperm

130

health and we're talking about fertility.

131

And there's been some really interesting

studies, too, and I can send them

132

to you after this too so we can link

them, but looking at how- If later in

133

life, looking at men who had different

types of cancers that were unrelated to

134

fertility like different just cancers

throughout the body that had infertility

135

challenges during that time, and it was

a symptom of something else going on in

136

the body- but it wasn't treated that way.

137

So it does pose the question what are we

looking at when we look at sperm health,

138

Kelsy: So you mentioned

earlier sperm counts declining.

139

Yeah.

140

That's not just this clickbait term.

141

It's something that's actually happening.

142

Yeah.

143

What do you think is- contributing

to some of those declines since

144

the 1970s, I think you said.

145

Cam Novak: You're right.

146

It's not just a clickbait conversation.

147

It's coming from very credible sources.

148

One of the foremost doctors on this is Dr.

149

Shanna Swan.

150

I don't know if you've seen

The Plastic Detox on Netflix.

151

That was a big conversation around

plastics and the impact on sperm health.

152

And, there are some really, I would

almost say, scary conversations

153

around this I think Dr.

154

Swan has said that by 2045, that sperm

counts could be almost down to zero.

155

That's obviously gonna be one of those

clickbait headlines you're gonna see

156

that's gonna be quite scary, but the

sentiment she's looking at is she's

157

done multiple studies and extensive

studies, and it's been checked from

158

other doctors as well, around just how

much sperm counts have been declining.

159

And looking at research all around the

world looking at this, not just in the

160

US, and she's looking at the trends that

sperm counts are declining over 1% a

161

year as well, and pushing that out to

the future if we don't change anything.

162

It is concerning, and there's a

lot of different comments around

163

what could be contributing to this.

164

Of course, Dr.

165

Swan's talking about plastics

and endocrine disruptors as well.

166

A lot of things, I think we're talking

about our diets as well and just

167

the reality of the American diet

and the gaps we have in our diet.

168

There's a lot of different

lifestyle factors I'm sure we'll

169

talk about today, but around heat,

around exogenous testosterone.

170

TRT is really growing.

171

Right now, a lot of people are taking TRT,

and in itself is certainly not an evil.

172

But in regards to sperm health and

fertility, it impacts your fertility.

173

It's treated like a male birth

control, and a lot of young men don't

174

know that as they're taking TRT and

then are trying to start a family.

175

So there's a lot of different things

that we face today, and I think

176

all of them combined, there's, I'm

sure there's a lot of connection

177

between how all these come together.

178

I think that part's scary, that we don't

necessarily know what's causing this.

179

Similar to women's fertility as

well, I think there's a lot that we

180

face that can impact our fertility.

181

Kelsy: I always say I'm, like, very

grateful to be born at this time

182

'cause I do feel like women's health

is just pushing the barriers a little

183

bit and we're learning more and more.

184

Yes.

185

Male fertility, same

thing it sounds like, too.

186

Again- Yeah … i'm adjacent to

that field, but it does sound like

187

there's so much more to look at when

it comes to male fertility, too.

188

And- Yeah … as you said earlier,

the male factor is 50% of- Yes … the

189

equation when it comes to successfully

getting pregnant but then also

190

maintaining that pregnancy throughout,

first trimester, those, like- Of course

191

really fragile first few weeks and beyond.

192

Cam Novak: Yeah.

193

No, I think it's a really f- not funny,

but it's an interesting conversation

194

that Luke and I have spent some time

talking about as well is obviously

195

women's health has been historically

understudied to a dramatic degree.

196

It is very important that we are now

investing more in women's health.

197

I think this might be the only category

of health where m- men's health- I

198

agree … has not been studied enough-

I agree … in, in the fertility space.

199

And, the way I looked at it originally

as well is it really is to the benefit of

200

women's health as well that we have this

conversation because- The reality is so

201

much of the fertility burden, I struggle

to use that word, but the fertility

202

load is placed on women- especially

when you're struggling to conceive.

203

And women think that it is entirely

on them and that there's something

204

going on with their bodies, whereas

there's this entire side of the

205

equation that can be addressed.

206

And we obviously are in conversations

with couples every single week around

207

this, and we've had so many couples

share with us that they were trying

208

for one or two years and didn't even

think to get a semen analysis or

209

understand his side of the equation.

210

And once they did, they saw that,

there was area just to grow there

211

or there was something wrong.

212

And I think that is a really big

injustice, to be honest, to women in this

213

space, that we should be looking at the

partnership and how both men and women

214

contribute to this fertility discussion.

215

Kelsy: I agree 100%.

216

So let's dive into what are some of

the things that guys are doing that are

217

negatively impacting their fertility?

218

Cam Novak: Yeah.

219

I'm sure you've seen some of these

as well, but I mentioned TRT.

220

That is probably one of the biggest

ones that a lot of men just don't know

221

the information before they go into it.

222

So exogenous testosterone.

223

Hearing that, you would think it would

actually be a benefit to your fertility.

224

It supports your

reproductive cycle, right?

225

It's your overall hormone health.

226

Testosterone is a good thing for men in

that sense, but it does stop your natural

227

sperm production because then you don't

produce natural testosterone because

228

your body thinks it's in a good place.

229

And so it has been almost considered a

male birth control, and that comes from

230

one of our fertility doctors that we work

with, is he works day in and day out with

231

patients that are coming in challenge-

with struggles conceiving, and one of

232

the reasons is testosterone, which is

very hard 'cause those are people who

233

were doing something they didn't even

realize was impacting their fertility.

234

Outside of that, a big one is heat.

235

It's a big factor around hot tubs.

236

Wet heat is one of the worst ones

'cause you're just surrounded by heat.

237

Saunas, laptops on lap, that's a more-

Hmm …… controversial one, right?

238

Okay.

239

But s- heated seats in the

car, anything like that, it

240

can impact your sperm health.

241

And the benefit to this is a lot of

this is really reversible, right?

242

'Cause sperm is a 90-day cycle or 72 to

90 days, which the benefit of men is they

243

do get the opportunity to make changes.

244

Nothing is permanent in that sense.

245

Even TRT, it can take six months to a year

to get your sperm cycle back after that.

246

But with heat, if you are looking

to conceive and you stop going in

247

the hot tub and you stop doing the

sauna, going in the sauna, you're

248

gonna start to see an improvement.

249

So heat is one.

250

Plastics we talked about.

251

And I think a lot of really great

people have started to speak about

252

how plastics can be very overwhelming.

253

They're literally everywhere.

254

But even small changes and

the things you can control

255

really can make the difference.

256

We had the benefit of, Talking with

the director of The Plastic Detox, the

257

Netflix movie that was removing plastics

and looking into how sperm counts

258

changed for these different couples

that have been trying to conceive on

259

average for two years without success.

260

And we met with the director, talked

with him about this process, and he

261

just shared how incredible it was to

actually see the difference because

262

before they went in, they didn't know

what kind of results they were gonna

263

get, if this would even be a good story

and f- people would care to watch it.

264

And three, I believe it was three of

the couples ended up conceiving, and

265

one of them we chatted with as well

Eric, and he, th- him and his wife had

266

been trying for two years, and just

removing plastics from their home was

267

enough for them to be able to conceive.

268

Wow.

269

And that's just one element that

they were changing in their life.

270

And so that is really crazy.

271

But plastics is another one I would

definitely call out for them to remove.

272

Kelsy: Is there any merit to the

type of underwear that men wear?

273

That I feel like either that's a,

old wives' tale or does it actually

274

hold true a little bit or not really?

275

Cam Novak: We haven't looked specifically

at the different types of underwear,

276

but there is a lot of conversation

around different things in your fabrics.

277

I'm sure there's plenty of merit there.

278

I don't know about you.

279

I have started to switch to cotton

Yeah … because I've seen so much

280

about even just our health- Right

281

and women's health and the impact there.

282

I think there are some really great

brands though that have had some very

283

conscious ingredients in men's underwear,

284

Kelsy: I didn't even think about

the makeup of it specifically.

285

Yeah.

286

So that's an interesting point too.

287

I also think there's so much

with cyclists and more I guess

288

compression based on that area.

289

I didn't know if, I guess that's

where my head was going with the

290

underwear- Yeah … was like more of

the compression and cyclists and people

291

who might be involved in sports or

activities that- Don't allow a little

292

bit of space to breathe in that area.

293

Cam Novak: Totally.

294

There is some conversation about cyclists,

and I always hesitate to call that one out

295

too extreme 'cause of course it's great

that you're getting exercise- Exactly

296

because exercise and movement is

a huge part of just overall men's

297

health, and in turn, your fertility.

298

So that's great.

299

But in the extremes, it is something

to be very cautious of, for sure.

300

Kelsy: Yeah.

301

And like you said about the, the wet

heat versus the, the sauna heat or

302

whatever, it's okay, or the seat warmers.

303

You're like, okay, maybe that's overkill,

but also it might not be why not just

304

throw the book at it a little bit-

… especially if you're trying to increase

305

your chances of successfully conceiving.

306

Cam Novak: And Lord knows, as

women, we are doing so many things

307

too as well when you're preparing.

308

And it really is things where if all

of these together can move the needle

309

for you, that is certainly worth it.

310

And I always try to strike the

balance of it not being stressful

311

and overwhelming because obviously

this can get to be a lot.

312

Especially if you start diving into

doing every single thing that you

313

could change, it becomes more of a

burden if it starts to become that way.

314

I do like to see it like an opportunity.

315

It's amazing that you have this

window, especially for men, that

316

90-day window, and it compounds as

you go longer, where you are preparing

317

for what you're passing down.

318

What an amazing thing to actually

be able to change your health

319

during that period of time.

320

I think that's quite great.

321

Some other ones quickly for you.

322

Alcohol, of course.

323

No one is saying alcohol is good for you.

324

Of course, reducing your alcohol

intake is important in that time.

325

And cannabis is another one that I think

there's been a lot more conversation about

326

recently, and studies that have looked

at even when the female partner does not

327

have any cannabis, the impact that it

can have on the child, which I think is

328

a very important conversation and really

great that doctors are talking about

329

what they're seeing in clinical practice

around cannabis use and male fertility.

330

Kelsy: What about exercise specifically?

331

has there been shown a benefit

for male exercise from even

332

the most basic standpoint?

333

We all hear exercise is great,

But is there anything to exercise

334

helping male fertility as well?

335

Cam Novak: Yes, there's plenty of that.

336

Just overall metabolic health as

well and taking care of your fitness.

337

It's that perspective of how your

overall health- impacts your fertility.

338

And truly investing in

weightlifting, daily movement,

339

all of that has a benefit to it.

340

And then the last one on a proactive

sense, not something to remove

341

but something to add, is sleep.

342

Of course.

343

It's so important.

344

And it's one of the hardest ones.

345

Luke and I were talking about starting a

family, and we're also building a company,

346

and I'm like, we still need to get sleep.

347

S- Because it's so important to us during

this period of time as well, prepping for

348

our own family which can be challenging

at times, but certainly very important.

349

Kelsy: So how much of what men are

doing to help them contribute to a

350

successful pregnancy will be passed down?

351

is there something to be said about

the, the sperm, the, the DNA that

352

you're actually contributing to the

baby- Yeah … being in a healthier

353

state because you are doing all of

these good things for your health.

354

You're taking out all of the bad things.

355

Is there sort of that genetic

component that's getting passed

356

down to the child as well for you

working on your fertility right now?

357

Yeah.

358

Cam Novak: Yeah, and that was one of the

biggest shocks to us around this space,

359

that there wasn't more conversation

around this space, was that realization.

360

And it's, a lot of this is

around epigenetics and the DNA

361

fragmentation- … and the sperm health.

362

So that's really the DNA quality

of what you're passing down.

363

And a lot of these things that

we've talked about impact that DNA

364

fragmentation, cannabis being an

example of one, where then what you're

365

passing down isn't to the best quality

in that DNA that you're passing down.

366

I think that is maybe a harder

conversation and sounds more like that

367

clickbait fear-mongering type thing,

but it's the reality of why it's so

368

important for him to be conscious of what

his health is like as you're prepping

369

for this period of time, for sure.

370

Kelsy: And I even think there's newer

research talking about the metabolic

371

components that are being passed down

from the dad to the baby, where it's-

372

Yeah … it's a 50/50 contribution, but

when you look at certain things like

373

mitochondrial density or metabolism, like,

all of these things are realizing oh,

374

some of it more so comes from the dad and

some of it more so comes from the mom.

375

So I think that's- Yeah … a unique

conversation and something that I, again,

376

I'm excited to be in this timeframe-

… 'cause I know the answers will probably

377

come out- Yeah … in my lifetime.

378

But it's just that extra little

component that it's like you're not

379

only helping yourself now and your

future family now, but it's also

380

helping the health of your child.

381

I was wondering, is there

anything that guys cannot control

382

that affect their fertility?

383

So- … something like genetics that,

were passed down that way, or even

384

the environment that they're in, the

chemicals that they're exposed to- Yeah

385

where they live, the

radiation, all of those things.

386

Are there things that they're exposed

to or genetics that negatively or even

387

positively impact their fertility?

388

Cam Novak: Yeah.

389

Yeah, actually interesting

question on positively.

390

I, in general, people do have

just different health baselines

391

that they're at, of course.

392

There are some things that require

surgical intervention as well.

393

There are some men that have

actually just zero sperm, and

394

that is something that- Taking

395

a supplement or changing your nutrition

is not necessarily gonna impact that.

396

Something your urologist is gonna

need to do something with, right?

397

And our, one of our doctors, Dr.

398

Colettis, he works a lot

with men who, in surgical

399

interventions here with varicoceles

400

So- … I think there are

certainly some things.

401

The way we're, we've been looking

at it and where we really wanna be

402

intentional is around men where there

is an opportunity to do something

403

besides s- surgery of course.

404

Yeah.

405

Kelsy: Totally.

406

And it's nice to know that there

are, like you said, there's

407

an, that 90-day, cycle- Yeah

408

or so that it is easily modifiable,

like you- Yeah … you can actually

409

do actions and perform behaviors and

take away certain things in order

410

to positively impact your fertility.

411

Yeah.

412

. Let's zoom in a little bit

more to diet and nutrition.

413

Cam Novak: Yeah.

414

Kelsy: Are there certain things

that most men are lacking in when

415

it comes to different ingredients

or micronutrients or macronutrients

416

that could help their fertility?

417

Cam Novak: Yeah, that's a great question.

418

A big focus area for sperm health, and

we talked a lot about DNA fragmentation,

419

and that's that piece of what you're

passing down, is antioxidants and making

420

sure you're getting enough antioxidants

to protect from that oxidative stress.

421

It impacts your health.

422

So that's something we really focused on

with foundations and what's included in

423

there are those different antioxidants

like CoQ10 looking at selenium as well.

424

A lot of those are really

important ones for that area.

425

I think a lot of other things

like zinc, they can't get

426

really enough zinc in your diet.

427

Vitamin C.

428

Those are, and these are a

lot of the ingredients we have

429

in TIES foundations as well.

430

But I think when a lot of men are focusing

on whole foods different meats, getting

431

enough protein, a lot of these things

are very intuitive and we know this, but

432

it's hard to get all of that in our diet,

making sure that we're filling those gaps.

433

Yeah.

434

Kelsy: I also wonder how much of that

just natural sort of like f- Diversion

435

away from whole foods over the last,

436

to some of those decreased sperm counts.

437

If we're not getting- Yes … those, those

ingredients, those antioxidants, those

438

things in our natural food sources that

we're having, and they've been modified

439

and adjusted since the 1970s, is that

a possible contributor s- to some of

440

those decreasing sperm counts overall?

441

Cam Novak: It, I think

certainly, honestly.

442

And it's one area, just the realities

and the quality of food today versus

443

what it used to be is certainly something

that a lot of people will point to Yeah.

444

Kelsy: So tell me a little bit about Ties.

445

And you guys did such a wonderful graphic

the other day that I'll also have to link,

446

about how much of different ingredients-

447

that you have to, like how much

salmon or spinach you have to

448

eat to get what is in Ties.

449

So- … talk me through.

450

You've already mentioned a few of the,

the key compounds that are in Ties.

451

Can you dive into each of those a

little bit and just give me a little

452

bit on how they can actually impact

sperm health and sperm quality?

453

Cam Novak: Yeah.

454

Of course.

455

So something we did with our

fertility nutritionist and doctors

456

when we were building this formula

was we wanted to make sure every

457

single ingredient supported one

of the four sperm parameters.

458

And so this is sperm count how many

sperm there are, sperm motility, how

459

they move, sperm morphology, how they're

shaped, and then DNA integrity, and that's

460

talking about this DNA fragmentation

side and what we're passing down.

461

And so what we did is we worked with

our team to make sure every single

462

ingredient had clinical research behind

it to support w- at least one of those

463

areas, and many of them support multiple.

464

And also looking at the doses that

were used in these clinical studies,

465

and that's a huge area for us and how

we also differentiated from what else

466

we had seen out there as we were just

looking for our own personal use, is

467

a lot of what is out there isn't at

the dosages that have been studied.

468

So that was a big part of this as well.

469

But looking at this around sperm

count, we were looking at zinc,

470

looking at selenium, also very

important for that DNA integrity side.

471

We have the carnitines.

472

We have L-carnitine and acetylcarnitine.

473

Those are super important for the

energy that's needed for this process,

474

and so that's really helping your

sperm motility, so how they're moving.

475

We have CoQ10 as well, which

is one of the most studied

476

ingredients for men's sperm health.

477

That's something a lot of your

doctors will be recommending

478

immediately, is making sure he's on

some kind of coenzyme Q10, CoQ10.

479

Mm-hmm.

480

We have methylated folate.

481

We have vitamin B12 very important, and

that's one I, we had talked about this

482

graphic that we had posted at TIES a

while ago, talking about how much food

483

you need to consume to get the amount

that's in TIES, and for B12 it was,

484

like, 30 pounds of salmon or something.

485

Kelsy: It was wild.

486

Yeah.

487

I'll link it below because it was, like,

a very quick info eye-opening graphic.

488

I was like, oh my gosh.

489

And the fact that you're able

to include that amount of B12-

490

Yeah … and salmon in, a supplement

form- Yeah … which is awesome,

491

Cam Novak: I will say this was

maybe the hardest part of building

492

the supplement, was around how

much we wanted to fit in this.

493

And we worked with this R&D

lab that is best in class.

494

They work with some of, honestly, some

of the biggest names in supplements,

495

and they work with two new brands a

year, and they were personally very

496

passionate about this conversation,

which- Was a goosebumps moment for us.

497

Totally.

498

Um, We had flown down to speak with them.

499

It was me, Luke, and five men in the room.

500

And we had shared Ty's, this vision

that we had, why we wanted to build

501

this, our own personal story, and

then they did their own intros, just

502

their background and everything.

503

And as they were all introducing

themselves, every single one of them

504

shared that they and their partner had

some kind of trouble conceiving- Wow

505

or some kind of realization

around men's fertility.

506

But they had never shared it with

this group here until this moment.

507

And that was when we had this realization

around how important this conversation

508

is, and how it's impacting so many

people, but we don't talk about it,

509

even though it's such a common thing.

510

And that was also when we knew

they were fabulous partners as

511

well, 'cause they really understood

what we were trying to do here.

512

And so our R&D process was long.

513

We went back and forth with our

doctors, with our nutritionists, and

514

with the R&D lab to make sure we got

everything in there that we could.

515

It's, it is four capsules, and

I could have made it seven.

516

And but they were, did an amazing job

packing in so much that we wanted to

517

get in there that actually moves the

needle, and it isn't just one, one capsule

518

that you're just gonna pee out, right?

519

These are the bioavailable- Totally

520

forms that actually are going to

be absorbed, and are really going

521

to move the needle for a man.

522

And so all of those ingredients were

just a part of this expansive process

523

to make sure that it's supporting one

of those big four sperm parameters.

524

Yeah.

525

Kelsy: I love that you went through all of

those different sperm parameters too- Yeah

526

first of all, but then also the different

ingredients because- From my own sort of

527

research and clinical being in the women's

health field, I know that a lot of the

528

time what you get in the capsule is not

necessarily what your body can absorb- Yes

529

… and you might have too much or too little.

530

So I resonate, with what you're saying

about how that's a little bit of

531

a difficult process of okay, these

research studies, they're usually

532

doing these pretty intense, from

my standpoint exercise protocols.

533

But I imagine in the supplement

space it's also okay let's throw

534

the book at it a little bit.

535

100%.

536

And then the, the results come back

and they're like, "It was successful."

537

And then you realize oh, just

because it had CoQ10 in it doesn't

538

mean it, it had enough CoQ10 in it-

Yeah … when you actually look at

539

the products that are on the market.

540

So applause noted to you guys.

541

'Cause I know it's a hard, it's a hard

thing to balance, and I imagine, like

542

you said, you're like, oh, we want

everything that could positively affect

543

male fertility in this supplement.

544

But we have to make it not seven capsules.

545

We have to make it, like- Yeah

… manageable on a day-to-day basis.

546

Yeah.

547

Cam Novak: I Luke and I always

laugh about how there probably

548

was a way to do this cheaper.

549

Yeah.

550

We certainly didn't do that- … because

we honestly wanted to cut no

551

corners when it came to this.

552

So using the best technologies to

make sure we could get the most

553

in these four capsules so that…

554

I did not wanna go above four because

I didn't wanna lose compliance of

555

people actually wanting to take it.

556

So we looked at, in men's health

what are men typically taking?

557

What would they be willing to

take for a long period of time?

558

But there are other

decisions we made, too.

559

We have a glass bottle.

560

That is certainly more expensive than

a plastic bottle, but we believe in

561

this thesis around the quality of

what we're bringing forward, that

562

we wanna reduce plastics for men.

563

So that was really important to us, too.

564

And then just of course, as you

mentioned, the quality of the

565

ingredients and the forms that they're

in so that they can truly be absorbed.

566

Yeah.

567

Kelsy: So knowing what's in Ties compared

to what's in our normal diet, what

568

would you say the average guy gets in

his diet of some of these ingredients?

569

Is he getting 25%…

570

Let's say he's really

trying to eat healthy.

571

Yeah.

572

So let's say he's getting the salmons,

the spinach, the, the whole foods.

573

How much do you think he's still

lacking when it comes to what's needed

574

to positively impact his fertility?

575

And this is a very subjective question

that I'm just- Yeah … I'm just curious.

576

I'm not quite sure the amount that,

that normal humans get in their

577

diet when it comes to CoQ10 or-

578

Cam Novak: Yeah

579

Kelsy: vitamin B12.

580

But I'm wondering just someone

who's really trying- How much are

581

they still lacking when it comes to

some of those- Yeah … ingredients

582

that TiE's focus is on?

583

Cam Novak: Yeah.

584

I think hard to place maybe a specific

number here, but the sentiment around

585

just the realities that even if you're

trying, even if you're getting a lot

586

of these whole foods, even just the

quality of the foods that we have today

587

are not going to get you to that place.

588

And w- we'll joke about that graphic

and that you'll link it as well.

589

But with some of the different

ingredients, it is just too challenging in

590

how much you would have to consume to get

certain amounts, just 'cause we don't have

591

those kind of nutrients in our food today.

592

The carnitine specifically are

very challenging to get through

593

our natural diet just to the exte-

the, of how much is included.

594

I think we have 1,500 milligrams

in our formula, which is very

595

challenging to get that amount.

596

Same for CoQ10.

597

It's very hard to get the amount

of coenzyme Q10 that we have

598

just in your natural diet.

599

And zinc as well is a very challenging

one, and that's a really great one

600

for testosterone as well, for natural

testosterone and libido for men.

601

So that's one where I think all men

in general should really be trying

602

to get more zinc in their diet.

603

But it's one of those things where

it would genuinely probably be very

604

uncomfortable to have to get this much

through your food and- 30 pounds of

605

salmon … quite laborious to get.

606

Yes.

607

And just not realistic at scale.

608

And we've always framed that a

foundational element of this is great

609

nutrition, and then foundations or

just any supplement, but how we see

610

it is TiE's foundations fills this

gap because you really just are gonna

611

have gaps in our diet, men and women.

612

Yeah.

613

Yeah.

614

Kelsy: So is there any

benefit to taking this?

615

Say someone, a, a girl's listening

to this and her partner and her

616

are not necessarily thinking

about getting pregnant, but she's

617

"Okay, yes, I do want a family.

618

We want a family together eventually."

619

Yeah.

620

How soon should they start taking it?

621

Is there any benefit to taking

it even before they're trying to

622

conceive and, even well after, yeah.

623

Are these ingredients and compounds that

are in TiE's beneficial- At those amounts,

624

even before they're thinking about getting

pregnant, and then well after as well.

625

Cam Novak: It's a great question, and

I think it's one of the most common

626

questions we get around men's fertility.

627

TIES specifically, when

should I start taking this?

628

How long should we think about this?

629

We talked about it already, but

the sperm cycle is up to 90 days.

630

It's 72, 74 to 90 days.

631

And so that's that window where the

sperm you are making today, for men, is

632

what you'll be passing down in 90 days.

633

So that's your window.

634

The longer you are making these

changes, the better impact

635

that has on your sperm health.

636

So for couples who are thinking

about actively trying, we

637

recommend six to 12 months.

638

Of course, any changes you can make

are gonna- you're gonna see benefits.

639

Even taking TIES Foundation,

we've heard of men feeling

640

changes in as soon as two weeks.

641

That's more to their

overall energy levels.

642

There's a lot of other

benefits in that sense.

643

But just, the ingredients, what's

in there, it supports the overall

644

reproductive system, which that's tied

to your hormones, how you're feeling.

645

That's the energy levels.

646

That's your libido.

647

That is a really big element of

even, honestly, what we've heard from

648

customers already, is their overall

vitality and how great they feel on it.

649

And that's obviously great to

hear, and that's the benefit of

650

being consistent with this, and

why it is better to start early.

651

And it really does

support that whole system.

652

So there certainly is benefits.

653

Think of it as your enhanced men's

multivitamin with ingredients that are

654

really specific for your sperm health.

655

Kelsy: I love it.

656

It's

657

Cam Novak: great.

658

Kelsy: Which is, that

extra vital sign, yeah.

659

It's like, okay, even if you're not

trying to get pregnant, you still

660

if it's gonna mirror women's health

research, a semen analysis is gonna be

661

that indicator- Yeah … on your overall

health as well, too, which I love that.

662

Yeah.

663

Cam Novak: I I don't know i- if you had

done this as well, but for me personally

664

probably starting two years ago, I started

to take prenatals because I wanted to

665

make sure that my cycle was regulated.

666

I went for a long period of my life

without a period, where I was trying to

667

figure out how do I get my cycle back?

668

How do I get my body back in order?

669

What is this telling me?

670

That I don't have a

regular period, that I…

671

some- something's off.

672

And my OB recommended I start

taking prenatals, just to get

673

everything- in a good place, that

is also how we think about this.

674

Sometimes it does take time to

get your body back into where

675

it's needs to be for an optimal

pregnancy, for optimal conception,

676

And so for men I do think about it

in a similar way of obviously the

677

longer you're on something, the

longer you're optimizing towards

678

this- … the bigger benefit you're

gonna see, and it's that whole system.

679

Kelsy: I totally.

680

I remember when I started taking a

prenatal in college when my- Good for you

681

professor, she l- she scared

the living daylights out of me.

682

She was a child development

specialist and she said, "Folic acid.

683

Every girl in here needs to be

taking folic acid because your

684

neural tube and your nervous system-

Yes … develops from folic acid."

685

And she was like, "Anyone of

child-bearing age and capabilities

686

should be taking, any female."

687

Oh, my gosh, I was so scared, and

I started taking it immediately.

688

I was, like, not even close to thinking

about having kids, but- Yeah … I

689

was like, "Oh, my gosh," which I guess

brings me to my point too, where you

690

don't know when it's gonna happen.

691

So you could have the best laid

plans for 90 days "Okay, I'm gonna

692

start 90 days before," but- Totally

693

It might not happen that way.

694

It might be, we hear all the time

of oopsies or whoopsies babies

695

which again- Of course … not

a great terminology, but it does

696

happen- … where- Yeah … people aren't

expecting to get pregnant and they do.

697

And so I think that just also

goes to show, like, why not?

698

If you're planning on having a

child six to 12 months, plenty of

699

my friends have gotten pregnant, a

little bit sooner than their timeline.

700

And if they had started TIES, before

when they were thinking, "Oh, 90 days and

701

we'll, start trying for a baby," and then

it happens before, that's, you know- Yeah

702

more of a reason to

start a little earlier.

703

Cam Novak: 100%.

704

It's so interesting, isn't it,

how some of these conversations

705

stick with us, yours being your

professor talking about folic acid.

706

Also cr- wonderful, great for her.

707

It seems like you were very

ahead of the curve as well-

708

… thinking about these things.

709

Thanks to her.

710

Kelsy: Yeah, thanks to her.

711

I would not have ever thought of it.

712

my baby's neural tube needs

to develop in the right way."

713

Cam Novak: Yes.

714

I I had one of those moments pretty

early on in my career as well.

715

I think it was my first year.

716

I was working in consulting at Deloitte,

and we're a bunch of project planners.

717

We're doing M&A deals.

718

And a private fertility clinic

did a webinar with- … a

719

lot of the working women.

720

And they came, and they were talking

about a lot of different areas around

721

women's fertility, but the woman

speaking said, "You're planners

722

in so many areas of your life.

723

Why aren't you planning when

it comes to your fertility?

724

Why aren't we thinking ahead for this?"

725

And I was there having my same

aha moment at my desk on this

726

virtual webinar being like- Yes.

727

… why am I not doing that?

728

And that was truly what catalyzed

my own personal process around

729

this too, of saying, "I cannot just

continue to sit on my hands and

730

think I'll figure it out one day.

731

I should be preparing for this."

732

And the same is true for, for

men to start thinking about this.

733

I'm sure plenty of 20 to what- whatever

age, young- younger men are not

734

thinking about their future children.

735

However, your health is

going to be something that

736

takes time to build as well,

737

Kelsy: which I also think is why

it's important to have, female

738

conversations about this because a lot-

739

of the time, the inspiration for your

boyfriend or husband comes from you as-

740

Yeah … the primary person who's probably

the primary consumer in the household.

741

Yeah.

742

I think, what is it, 83% of

consumer spend is female.

743

Yeah.

744

So I think that's why it's important too,

where it's like these are conversations

745

to bring up with your spouse or your

partner to say, "Okay, this is what I'm

746

doing," but also, there's something out

there that can help you too- Totally

747

before- you have to go through

processes that are pretty

748

challenging with infertility

and- Yeah … things like that.

749

Cam Novak: Yeah.

750

I entirely agree.

751

I think it's really something even

as we've been building Ties, I've

752

loved building it with my husband,

Luke, because we bring that joint

753

perspective to this of saying, "I, I-

here's how I would see this as a woman.

754

Here's how I have engaged with

this, how I've thought about this

755

product as a woman in this journey."

756

Same for Luke coming from

the male perspective.

757

Sometimes on certain things with our

brand as well, he's like, "You have

758

to stop making things so feminine."

759

I'm like you know what?"

760

Women are also going

to be looking at this-

761

'cause it's a joint journey.

762

And yes, this is a product

that's designed for men.

763

It's meant to be approachable for men,

something that they genuinely wanna take.

764

They feel like it's built for

them, and so that is where a

765

lot of this branding comes from.

766

But it certainly is a lot of women that

are buying this for their partners.

767

Kelsy: so I have this concept called

the exercise handbag, which is

768

basically a silly way to describe

the essentials that every girl

769

needs in her exercise routine- Yeah

770

for her health now and in the future.

771

So it's just a, a little metaphor I have.

772

I wanna know what is in the male

fertility backpack or briefcase?

773

What would be those pillars

when it comes to the male

774

fertility briefcase or backpack?

775

Cam Novak: I love this.

776

I need to, I need a list- yes … of

all your other backpack items for

777

Kelsy: when- I, okay, I can give you.

778

So strength training's one.

779

Okay.

780

Recovery is one.

781

Very basic, where it's like, okay, no

matter the style of exercise that you

782

like, if you like Pilates or running,

like I feel like we just overcomplicate

783

exercise for women specifically.

784

Yeah.

785

So I tried to sum it up to be like,

"These are the essentials you need."

786

If you do Pilates, there's

ways to get these in too.

787

You don't just have to think of,

going out and running marathons or

788

strength training out the wazoo, yeah.

789

You can get the, the basics

in, no matter what you enjoy.

790

So it's a way to simplify it.

791

So strength training, recovery,

jump training, sprint HIIT training.

792

Great … those are my pillars,

and that's it, and you can

793

get them no matter the style.

794

So that's an example for-

795

Cam Novak: I love it.

796

Kelsy: I love it … for exercise.

797

Cam Novak: Okay, for men, I would say

first and foremost would be nutrition,

798

and that is what we were talking about

with whole foods, being intentional

799

about getting antioxidants, getting

good protein, and then, yes, a

800

supplement to fill those gaps, 'cause

the reality is we all need that.

801

So I think that would be my first

bucket, is just comprehensive nutrition.

802

Another one would be around daily

movement and sleep, the basics.

803

Making sure you're investing

in your overall health.

804

So weight training and just getting

moving, and then prioritizing

805

sleep d- especially during that

90-day window when you're being…

806

it might be hard to say

prioritize sleep for a year.

807

But really when you're close in that

time and you and your partner are

808

trying, prioritizing that sleep.

809

And then last, I honestly would say

just this mental framework of what an

810

opportunity to take this time to prep.

811

Yeah, this was a lot, talking about

everything that we could cut, and

812

there, there is a long list of things

that you should be reducing, right?

813

We talked about TRT, of course, we

talked about cannabis, we talked about

814

alcohol, we talked about plastics.

815

But what an amazing opportunity to

prepare for what you're going to

816

pass down, and I think it's a amazing

thing that men have this ability to

817

change that during that period of time

by some of those lifestyle changes.

818

So commitment to those

changes is the last one.

819

Does that count as a back thing then?

820

Kelsy: Totally.

821

All right.

822

Totally.

823

It's just the simple basics,

'cause I feel like a lot of these

824

conversations can feel overwhelming.

825

Yeah.

826

And so it's nice to just boil

it down to the necessities where

827

after everything we've talked about

today, this is, these are some of

828

the priority items to focus on.

829

Yeah.

830

So I did wanna ask, we've talked about

a lot today, but is there something

831

that we haven't touched on that you're

like, "I really want girls to know this

832

about male fertility," which sounds-

Yeah … like a, a silly thing- Yeah.

833

… to say, but it's the truth,

834

Cam Novak: yeah.

835

No, I it's funny.

836

I j- I totally hear you, and even as I,

we started this episode talking about

837

two women sitting down talking about

male fertility, it's damn right, I don't

838

know if I can swear, but damn right.

839

Yeah, you can.

840

Here we are.

841

Yes.

842

Yes.

843

We absolutely are talking about this.

844

And with that being said, I do think

we covered it, but just to emphasize

845

again, it's a shared journey, and

it isn't all on you for women.

846

And to know that there really is this

other half of the equation, it's so

847

important to be proactive there too,

and to engage in his health as well

848

in this journey, and to ease so- maybe

some of that stress on you as well,

849

to know that his health really can

be super important during this time.

850

It's 50%, and there are

things you can do about it.

851

It's not something that

is just, is what it is.

852

Kelsy: I think that is the perfect ending.

853

I will leave all of the

links to Ties below.

854

If you go to their website, they

offer 51% off your first bottle

855

of Ties, which is fantastic.

856

I actually thought, when I first

logged on, I was like, "I wonder

857

if I should tell them that they

missed the one and the five."

858

Oh.

859

Everyone always thinks oh,

15% off, but 51% off- Oh,

860

yeah … which I think is amazing.

861

But I will also leave the links

to Cam and Luke's socials below

862

for the behind-the-scenes look.

863

I always love when you guys do that,

and then also the Ties social handles

864

as well for you guys to follow along.

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But- Awesome … thank you so

much for coming on the podcast.

866

Yeah.

867

I had so much fun.

868

I hope you guys learned a lot, and I

will see you guys again on the next

869

episode of Wellness Fixes the Pod.