In this compelling episode of "The Fire Inside Her," join Diane Schroeder and guest Trisha Wolford as they explore the challenge of maintaining authenticity while navigating the male-dominated world of firefighting. From anecdotes on handling scrutiny over fashion choices to strategies for asserting presence in a room full of men, this episode provides a candid look at the intersections of gender, leadership, and self-expression. Don’t miss this powerful dialogue that might just change the way you see strength and femininity in the workplace.

How to connect with Trisha:

Trisha L. Wolford hails from Rockford, Illinois, where her passion for firefighting ignited. With a career spanning across various states, she has left an indelible mark in the field. Trisha's journey began in the fire service with stints at three distinguished fire departments: AACOFD in Maryland, Bozeman Fire in Montana, and Spokane Fire in Washington.

Her leadership prowess was quickly recognized, propelling her to the esteemed position of Fire Chief at Anne Arundel County Fire Department (AACOFD) in Maryland, where she served admirably for 5 years. Leading a combination department, Trisha oversaw a team of over 1000 career firefighters, EMTs, and paramedics, alongside 350/400 riding volunteer members, and 900 administrative volunteers, ensuring the safety and well-being of over 600,000 residents.

Under her guidance, AACOFD expanded its reach, boasting 31 fire stations and 5 bureau offices strategically located to serve the community efficiently. Trisha's commitment to excellence extended beyond the frontline responders, encompassing the entire support infrastructure, including dispatchers and administrative personnel.

Trisha L. Wolford's legacy as a dedicated firefighter, compassionate leader, and community advocate continues to inspire the next generation of fire service professionals.

How to connect with Diane

www.thefireinsideher.com 

Diane@Thefireinsideher.com 

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@TheRealFireInHer 

LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com/in/dianeschroeder5/

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Hi, friend. Before we jump to today's episode, I wanna share a quick thought on what I think is one of the most important tools to have in your self care toolkit, self awareness. Learning to know about you, what makes you tick, what pisses you off, what you Fire, and what you don't like. Being self aware doesn't happen overnight. It takes time and courage to get to know all the parts of you, not just the light, easy, and fun parts. You can't forget the shadows and the rough edges. Self awareness allows you to choose what you want to do in life. It helps you set boundaries and live your most authentic life.

So where do you start? I suggest taking a few minutes daily to slow your mind down and be distraction free. Put your phone in another room, go someplace quiet, and ask yourself what you want, desire, and love. And for bonus points, I would journal it and write it down. I suggest doing a strengths assessment, like strengths finder or via character. I'll put the links in the notes. Starting your journey to self awareness is like dating yourself. Focusing on your strengths Fire gives you the confidence to dive into the shadows, which I really recommend doing with a professional to start. Life doesn't get any easier when you're self aware, but it is a little easier to navigate the changes and the bumps when you're more comfortable with who you are.

Looking for more tools, tips, and wisdom? Be sure to sign up for my newsletter that I send out a couple times a month. Head on over to the Fire inside her dot com forward slash list to start receiving the newsletter. Welcome to The Fire Inside Her, a brave space to share stories of navigating life transitions with authenticity, using our inner fire to light the way, and self care as our loyal travel companion. I'm your host, Diane Schroeder, and I'm so grateful you are here. Her many times have you felt guilty about making tough decisions? When you're in a leadership position, you must make tough to choices and have hard conversations. In Atlas of the Heart, Brene Brown says that guilt is a psychologically uncomfortable feeling, but one that's helpful. The discomfort of cognitive dissonance is what drives meaningful change. It sounds like sitting in discomfort can lead to good things, if you're willing to be uncomfortable.

Today, my guest, chief Tricia Wolford, and I have an honest conversation about guilt, leadership, authenticity, and why it's important for leaders to remove barriers, the outdated rules and policies, so that everyone can feel they bring their most complete self to work. Spoiler alert. The journey doesn't happen overnight. It might be a little messy, but you don't have to do it alone. Chief Wolford shares the importance of her community and prioritizes self care. She also talks about how and why she uses her feminine energy in the masculine energy dominating fire service. Chief Wolford was born and raised in Rockford, Illinois, has worked for 3 departments in Maryland, Bozeman, Montana, and Spokane, Washington. She is currently the fire chief of Anne Arundel County Fire Department in Maryland.

She's been there for 5 years. It's a combination department with over 1,000 career firefighter, EMT paramedics, between 350 to 400 riding volunteer fire members, and 900 administrative volunteer members, 35 dispatchers, and 60 plus civilians. That's a big organization. I look forward to you listening to this conversation with chief Wolford. Hello, everyone. Today is gonna be a great day because I am introducing you, my listeners, to Tricia Wolford, who is a fire chief on the East Coast and is an absolute badass. Tricia, thank you for giving us your time today. So excited you're here.

Thanks. Me too. I love this.

Okay. So my random icebreaker question is, what was your first concert?

Oh, very first concert, was in Milwaukee at Summerfest, and I couldn't even drive yet. I went with my sister, and it was Aerosmith.

Oh, wow. That's a great first concert.

Isn't it? I had no idea. Right? I just thought I don't care. I just get to go somewhere.

Right. Now, was it like a music festival?

Yeah. Summerfest. I was born and raised in Illinois, Rockford, Illinois, and Milwaukee is super close. But, yeah, it's a big multi day summer festival. They have huge headliner bands outdoor. And I think I don't know if my mom would be mad, but I think my sister let me try a beer.

Okay. I mean, it was a long time ago. It doesn't count.

I remember, though, listening to music all the way up, sitting in the seat of our car, and then just thinking, this is cool. Like, I've never seen anybody perform live. So, Errol Smith.

Oh, wow. That's a fantastic concert. I wasn't allowed to go to concerts until I graduated from high school. My mom took me to Barry Manilow when I was 8. I don't know The that counts, but yes. So and then they were like, no. You can't do anything, and I'm like, that's just not fair. I wanna go see music.

So thank you for sharing that. Now Rockford, Fire, Illinois is also home of the Rockford peaches. Correct? Yes. The of my favorite movies of all Fire. A League of Their Own.

We actually are friends with some of the Rockford peaches. Oh, how cool. Yeah. My family is Cecilian. And so my nana, which is my grandma, they're her age. She's has passed. And, yes, there is still 1 or 2, and I got to meet them a couple years ago. Diane, literally, they're it is just like the movie.

I will say this is a great parallel. It's really cool. Yeah.

I love that movie so much. It was just everything about it. Okay. Well, let's dive in because we have a lot of great things about leadership to talk about. And, you know, we chatted a little bit before we hit record, but one of the things that just doesn't get talked enough about is guilt and how guilt is associated with leadership. They're, like, in the same family of first cousins, I would say, of all the things that go with leadership, stress and everything, is guilt. So I would love for you to share with me and my audience a little bit about how guilt impacts you as a leader.

Well, just looking back at some of your other podcasts and listening, and this is my 5th year as fire chief, and nobody is talking about it. And I think as women, whether, you know, you're the leader of your household, the leader of you alone in your household, you know, no kids, no pets. Right? Or you got it all going on and, you know, significant other. We rarely talk about it in that regard because I think we all know we're dealing with it. And it's like, well, why complain to my other girlfriends who are also dealing with it? Because we feel guilty about complaining. Right? But then throw that into a leadership role with decision making and, you know, every rank from firefighter to fire chief has to make decisions. But, you know, the higher you get, none of the crappier the decisions are. Right? There's not a lot of great options.

And, it's people, you know, our job is people. So, on the professional side, I just think it's one of those things that I was like, God, why aren't we talking about this? The give you a great example. I'm really blessed. I have a full recruit class right now. And one of our recruits has failed multiple times, and it triggers our testing policy, which is a termination policy. And I know they did everything down there. You know, in my head, I'm going, can we do better? Right? We we do our work with the University of Maryland, and I'm thinking, are we sure this is the right policy? Am I giving enough opportunity? Right? I'm going through all these things in my head, and I follow the policy. Right? Because that's who we are, and that's The you know, Fire right now, The the right thing to do.

You don't change a policy in the middle of a recruit class. So the recruit got terminated. And then I just happened to be at training the other day, and I thought let me just ask. I said, how's the class doing? You know, every time one is leaving the class, I worry about the hole. And they said, honestly, Chief, it's been the best thing. That person was not carrying their weight. We've been struggling with them. And I was like, oh, I've been harboring this guilt, which is still appropriate.

You know, I think guilt means you care. You know, it means that you're actually trying to work through a situation. I think Fire me, the most important thing was to learn how to process quicker so I'm not, like, belaboring any phase of it. I don't wanna get rid of it. I don't wanna be desensitized because I think it's appropriate to feel that way at times. But I can reason with it very quickly. Right? I went right through The scenario and went, why? Were you doing the right thing? Did you follow the policy? Would you do what was expected of others? You know, all these little things that I can go, yep. Yep.

Well, we're human. Right? We're gonna have emotions because our brain takes us to what if they're providing for a family? What if they've waited years for this career? Right? You do all the what ifs and those are valid. It's just one of those things. You know?

I'm listening to your story, and I think that's universal, especially for my firefighters listening and fire chiefs. And, really, anyone who's a leader or a manager that has to either terminate an employee or have a difficult conversation. And so I wonder if, you know, a lot of times communication always comes up in any organization or any struggle that people are having in their life of not being able communicate clearly or not getting all the information. And I wonder if part of that is not wanting to have hard conversations, not wanting to have those, you know, bristly moments because they wanna avoid feeling guilty. What do you think about that?

I think it's possible because anytime you can detach emotion from a decision, and and I really try to run my department as a business. To me, it's clean, it's efficient. That doesn't make it have any less emotional attachment or, you know, human relation. But we are a business. And I think, yeah, somebody I'll call it Her the luxury of detaching from empathy or human behavior, then good on them. But I don't know. For me, that would be the right thing to do because I just can't. And I say can't not like I'm unable.

Can't as I don't think it's the right thing for my organization. But I have enough clarity, I feel Fire, most of the time to not make an emotional based decision. If I was gonna make an emotional based decision, I would have said, let's give The one more try. That's okay that the policy only says 2 tries. I know what that looks like that down the road that I mean, I came out of the fire marshal's office, so my soul is actually very much a rule follower. Yes. Yes. But I think there are things that women do that we could probably eliminate that.

One of the things I learned very early coming into fire chiefing is women tend to and I keep saying women because that's how it was presented to me as a lesson. Maybe men do it too, not to alienate that Schroeder. But think of how many times we write an email or reply an email and we say, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't get back to you sooner. Or I'm sorry I couldn't make your event. Every email where I type I'm sorry, I go back and I reread it, and I would say almost a 100% of the time, I'm removing the apology. And I'm saying Amen. Right? What am I apologizing for? I'm apologizing because you gave me 2 days notice about an event you want me at.

Any of my fault?

No. I started to do the same thing. It was brought to my attention. I can't remember how or but, you know, similar. I was always apologizing. Oh, thank you. You know, I'm so sorry I didn't do x, y, and z. And now it's like, thank you for understanding.

Thank you for your patience. Thank you for recognizing that we're all human.

Thank you for including me. I would love to attend your event next year. Is there any way I could get a little more notice? Right? And I'm not trying to be a jerk. I don't want the pendulum to swing.

So there just aren't a lot of female fire chiefs. It's specifically about the fire industry. You know, there's more, which is great. I love seeing more and more women step into that leadership role. I can imagine it would almost be like being a brand new Fire fighter. For me, I wanted to fit in even though I knew I was different. And then I worked really hard to not, you know, just to be my own person, be authentic. And I feel like the higher I climbed in the fire service, the more challenging that became.

And so I wonder if, you know, what your experience has been as a fire chief of maintaining that authenticity and, you know, really kind of embracing all that makes you amazing and badass while feeling the guilt and learning not to apologize and really kind of bringing that feminine side into a very masculine profession.

It took me a couple years, unfortunately.

It didn't happen overnight.

You I you know, you want it to, and and not in a bad way that you wanna be included. I don't necessarily need to feel included. I just didn't wanna stick out.

Yes. That's an even better way of saying it. Absolutely.

I'll give you one of my cleanest examples is it took me multiple years, I wanna say 3, to not wear a pantsuit to every conference because I a skirt and a blazer was different. Or holy cow, a dress? Like, clearly, that is totally changed now because I do value fashion. I do appreciate it. You know, I do feel like I know the difference between what I would wear to a evening event versus, you know, a conference or a meeting work session. But these are things that I'm very vocal with when we're recruiting and hiring with my newest recruits coming in. A great example, like nail polish and any color nail polish. And that was the Fire policy I changed as a Fire chief. We were not allowed to wear nail polish.

And I say we, everybody. So, I gender neutralized it. And it might be the very simplest thing, but The, with my polyester, this makes me feel feminine. And I need the strength of that in an all male meeting, in an all female meeting, in an all firefighter meeting, in an all fire chief. Like, I need to feel as complete as possible and like myself because Fire me, that's the strongest I am making decisions. And if I don't feel like myself, then I don't know if I'm questioning the decision or if I'm questioning myself. Diane, honestly, I don't have time for that. Right? I gotta do it right.

Right. Well, thank you for sharing The. And I'm really glad that you brought up the fashion piece because we've known each other for a few years now, and I've always admired how your sense of style and fashion. And I remember thinking, man, she has figured out how to be feminine and strong in this masculine world. And I just always put together and envious of to the point of Fire, wow. I you make everything look really good, and I'm I'm fangirling on you right now. But thank you for sharing that it didn't happen overnight and also recognizing how important it is. When I first got hired, I had to have my hair short.

It was a requirement. We had to have our hair above the collar. And I just always felt like such a tomboy. And, you know, like, my parents raised me as a tomboy anyway. So, like, I I feel like I really had to excavate my feminine side and my girly Inside, and, like, then try to balance it and figure it out. The nails are a great example. I started doing my nails towards the last, I don't know, 3 or 4 years before I left for those same reasons that you just said. I'm like, I wanna be girly.

You know, makeup was always tough on shift because, you know, I'd wake up in the middle of the night looking like a raccoon.

Yeah. Well and I'm a sweater. So

Yeah. That too. And it again, it takes time. Right? Like, I do makeup maybe now once a week, if that on days I'm recording podcast episodes, I'll be completely honest.

I literally, learned a mascara because I started doing, you know, media stuff, PIO. And I was like, oh my god. Is that what I look like? Like and then I called my sister. My sister is 3 years older than me. She sent me step by step email directions and a thing of eye shadow. And then with The Sharpie, color coded the 4 different colors on there and was Diane, number 1. Number 1 goes here. And I was Fire, oh, I don't have time for this.

That is amazing. You know, my good friend, Tricia Connolly, who I think you've met from Denver. Again. Yes. So her and I, we have the very same it was right before COVID. We were in Vegas, and we went to Nordstrom, and this nice lady at the Bobbi Brown counter I love Bobbi Brown makeup. And we were like, we don't really wear makeup. We don't really know.

You know? And she's like, oh, just do it this way. And same thing, gave us The step by step. Well, Bobbi Brown sold her makeup to, you know, someone else and now has a different company called Jones Road, and it's the most basic simple makeup ever. You just kinda put it on, and it takes maybe 3 minutes. I was I'm like, this is the best thing ever. I can still feel girly and not look like a zombie. I'm in.

And these are all the normal things to me to talk about where before, if I was with fire service women and there would be a man in earshot, like, don't talk about that. I don't want him to think we're girls. Right? Fire,

Right. Well and I guess so that's my next question for you. What was the process like when you was it intentional to kind of just become, like, this is me. Take it or leave it. I've gotta be me.

It was tough in the sense of and I'm not saying difficult to do, but now looking back, probably the best way to describe it and and I don't know that I'm doing it right or that I did it right because some of it did come with rank, and that's difficult to say, but that is that is the true honest answer is because of how my career went, I was in positions of higher rank sooner than my growth by choice, by design, and then rapidly grew into them. But it would be disingenuous for me to say that rank doesn't help some of that. And whether that hourly helps it or internally with your level of confidence, knowing I'm gonna walk in this room, you know, I'm a deputy chief, but I'll be the highest ranking or I'll be the highest ranking female or, you know, things like that. So some of it was experience. I will say going back to the fire marshal's office, being the fire marshal also gives you lots of scenarios that you maneuver. So part of it comes with the rank and the confidence of dealing with some of it. I think the other part was truly that I'm just exhausted trying to figure out what you all think is important. And I see you all, like, globally.

And it wasn't like, I don't care what you think because I think everybody does. It was just maybe like a puppy. Right? Like I just exhausted myself enough to go, I wanna wear this dress today and I'm gonna wear it. And some of it was, like, little stuff. When I traveled for conferences, I can get 5 dresses and a carry on suitcase, but to get 5 different suits with 5 different button downs, I was like, I'm gonna bring The dress for each day. And if I need to transition to evening, so some of it was also efficiency. It's good The level of exhaustion when you kind of feel like it's that, I don't care what you think anymore. You still care, but you've just kind of worn yourself down.

And that's why I say like a good puppy. Right? It's like I did all my zoomies. You took me out for a walk.

Yeah. That's a really great way to describe it. And and if I could add, I think part of that is just wisdom. It's getting older in life, and it's also part of the journey to that authentic self. Especially in this profession, you realize, man, life is short, and you see, smell, hear pretty terrible things, and it's just too short not to just be yourself.

Now I will say there are some tactical decisions in there because to me, strategy is everything. And so I'm gonna give up some of my secrets. So I'm Fire already. And while I can have a very respectful professional high heel, you realize when you put on a 3 and a half inch or 4 inch high heel at 59, you will look most men directly in the eye. Right? There's no looking down. It's remarkable when you get that opportunity to actually do the eye to eye or to be very close to it. And I learned that on my way up, and I just thought and there's also little things too. And I these might sound dumb, but these are just kind of the things you ration with.

I tend to always carry a bag in my hand and not on my shoulder because I just don't feel right? You have a bag on your Schroeder. You're kinda like this. I just don't feel what command presence I could physically have. I'm a very narrow frame. I don't take up space Fire a lot of the men take up space, but I want the same amount of space, and I'm going to assume it in one way or the other. So either I'm physically gonna assume it, or I like to buy really nice handbags, and that handbag is gonna assume that seat with me.

You have a presence when you walk into the room. There is no like, your energy, and I I believe that, you know, your energy enters the room long before a person does. You do fill up that room, and I love that philosophy. I, for a long time, would present only in heels for that very reason because I wanted to be taller and, you know, be bigger and fit for the same reasons.

No. I'm very lucky. I genuinely love those things. Right? Because wearing work boots or, you know, shiny shoes or whatever, that is me and that's why that works together. If I was not a high heel person, that's not gonna work at all. Right? You don't feel confident, but but that is very much a piece of who I am. So that works in my favor.

The, and I stopped wearing them because I realized that I didn't really trust them.

There you go.

I was afraid that I was gonna roll an ankle or something after a while, and I'm like, yeah. No. I can't do this anymore, and that's okay. I same but different. Right? Like, I had to figure out what worked for me. How has your experience been with other women in the fire service? And I don't mean that in a way of, like, let's be catty and spill the tea. I just know that when I came up in the fire service, it was really hard for me to connect with women who Fire of higher rank than me, or I don't know if it was competition over collaboration. There were some pretty mean girls throughout my career, even the higher up I went.

And I just I never understood it because I feel like that just affords a scarcity mindset, not a growth mindset, definitely not an infinite mindset. So I'm just curious. What's your experience been?

I love, I'm trying to remember who said it. I love that quote that was said, a special place in hell.

Madeleine Albright, I believe, said it.

Yeah. What a perfect person to say that. Exactly.

Exactly.

I think you are very true. Coming in as a new firefighter, I was terrified. Once I got out of recruit school, got off probation, I was terrified of the other women in the department. And it had really been pretty much explained. There's gonna be a couple cool girls because, you know, there wasn't a ton of women, but then there's gonna be some of the, you know, more senior. Basically, think you're here to make a baby, find a husband, sleep around. It honestly doesn't help if any of the women, and I'm speaking back The. You know, this I came in 2006, so I didn't get into the field in 2,007, 2008.

And it really worked against you if you were physically fit, had a great body, were slightly attractive. It was Fire all these things were horrible. Right? Funny, got along with the guys, like, Everything you're trying to do to fit in, all you're doing is Fire, oh my god. There's, like, a woman over here that's evil eyeing you. Remarkably, you know, we don't actually want to sleep with everybody in the department. No. No. That's actually not why we're here.

So that was difficult. I definitely think that's part of the old school model. I do focus on building camaraderie early with the females coming in, making sure, you know, our other females understand the inclusivity, how they all come together. I think it would be naive to say that it doesn't happen. I certainly feel that it happens less. On an executive level, I was saying getting in the upper ranks, very, very welcoming. Whether it's a division chief to a fire chief, a deputy to an assistant, all that kind of battalion chief and above, I felt that was very welcoming, and it was almost more of Fire the nod. You made it, sister.

We're not gonna get any higher unless we do it together.

Yes. Yes. Thank you. And similar, I got hired in 2,000, and it was it was really intimidating. And I often wonder, thinking back, how that impacted me as far as how I responded and reacted. Because I feel like part of why it's better now is because we've been through it, and we didn't want it to continue on. So I think, you know, breaking that cycle is important, and I don't think that the women before me knew any better. I don't think it was necessarily intentional.

I think it was just, you know, what they knew, and I don't wanna take their inventory or anything like that. But it's interesting because I was in Colorado. You were in Maryland and had very similar experiences, and I'm confident that if we asked women from all over the country, it would be similar, you know, if they've been on for 20 ish years. It was a very challenging time when we first got hired.

I think one of the main things that helps that is, you know, when you come in and anybody in the department can count you because there's only so many of you, whether that's because of your race or your gender or your ethnicity, you know, whatever it is. When you can be counted in a department, that's where the problem is. Well, at this point, thankfully, there are more and so many and hopefully encouraging to be more. It just normalizes itself because you're not the only woman on the crew or the only woman in the battalion. There's so many people. It just works out. You know? In this case, more is better.

Yes. Absolutely. So as we talked a little bit before I hit record, you're a very busy woman. You are traveling all the time. You've got a huge organization that you run. It's budget season. What do you do to take care of yourself? What does that look like for being so busy? How do you prioritize your self care?

A lot of namaste. I'm a huge fan of Bikram Yoga, which is super warm, super sweaty, pretty much soaking wet. On average, the room, the studio I like to go to is 70% humidity or above and anywhere between, like, a 104 and a 110 degrees. Easily, a 90 minute class is a 120 minutes is good for me.

I'm a

very physical person. I I like to be athletic, and it's really twofold. You know, I like to sweat and stay in shape. It's multifold more than 2. I wanna know that I can stay physically fit and do the job that I'm asking my firefighters and clinicians to do. I think that's only fair. I like in a setting like that with yoga, it's one of the only places you can go that talking is frowned upon. Nobody's gonna ask you any questions.

I don't have to make a decision because I have a lovely instructor that's gonna tell me what to do. And I'm either gonna do it or I'm gonna lay down on my lap and Fire, I'm gonna just lay there and take a nap. Yep. So, I got 2 great options, listen or nap. And it is a good thinking stress reliever. And when it's busy like this and it's stressful, I'll do morning Diane afternoon. And I like to run, so that would be the other thing for, like, fresh air outdoor. But yoga keeps me able to run more often or longer distances.

I do acknowledge though I can get a little obsessive. Is that a good word?

It's honest.

It is. It is Fire anything. But I'm like, well, like I said before, I'm Cecilian, which means I love to eat too. So Yeah.

And there's nothing wrong with I I love yoga too. I'm not a fan of Bikram. I mean, I've done it a few times, but I do. I love yoga for all the same reasons. Like, no judgment. You just do your own thing. It's you and your mat, and you listen to instructions. No one can reach you, and you can always be in child's pose.

Yeah. So I'll do some, you know, flow. I'll do some, the rejuvenal meditation, blah, blah, blah. I can tell when I am not in the right space. Right? Again, some of those classes and I'm all right. I feel like I'm like mean mugging the instructor. Like, you wanna move this along? Right? I got stuff to do. Yes.

Yes. Your monkey brain is like, come on. Let's go. TikTok.

Yeah. And, there I have lots of, little Trisha talks in my head. Right? Like, Jesus woman, get it. Me, get it.

I read or I listened. I can't it might've been Inside listened to a book because I listened to a lot of books, and she was talking about how there's breathing and meditation, and then there's really being in tune and focused. And it's kinda like scraping the couple inches off the dirt at first. Like, I think of that in yoga sometimes if I've got a busy brain and just a million things. I'm just at the dirt. I'm just, like, scraping the dirt. I'm not deeply into the practice. The roots are not going down to the center of the earth and connecting me and doing all these things, which sound great and lovely.

And, you know, when I'm in it, it's fine. But sometimes I'm just like, hey, I'm here.

I sometimes use a coach, a personal coach, which also provides anytime I have clarity The creates a level of peace. Right? Information is always power in that sense. To me, any type of personal information makes me happy because I feel personal growth, and that's part of what satisfies me. But it also calms me down. And in some of the conversations, they said to me, right, you know what kind of person you are, whether that's the type a or the whatever. Basically just said, you have weaknesses, but really your weaknesses are actually you're an over user of your strengths. And they just basically said, just keep in mind less Tricia. And so, I'm constantly saying less Tricia, right? If I'm in the yoga class and I think I can mentally encourage the instructor to move quicker, fantastic.

Less Trisha. Right? Bring it down, lady, or excuse yourself and go home.

Well, that that's very vulnerable and honest to share, and I think it's easy to say you want that type of feedback in life or I tell me what I need to work on. It's also very different to actually hear it and be like, oh, but I didn't wanna hear that. And so for you to be like, yep. You know what? That kinda makes sense. I had a guest on. She does a lot of energy work, and she's a coach, and she does a lot of work with inner child healing. And it really resonated with me because she's like, you know, for so long, I tried to get rid of my inner child and just get rid of her. And what I realized is she needed a relationship with Her, and that was really a game changer with me not to bring up inner child stuff, but just, like, it's accepting all the parts of you.

If it's too much, if it's, you know, not enough, because I have a tendency. I've been told I'm too much really for most of my life. So I resonate with that, and that's okay. I guess if you don't want to be around me, then that's their choice. And knowing that, okay, maybe I should dial it down is also part of the growth, whatever.

I prefer to evaluate me before my environment or others. Let me let me take a quick look Her. And if I can manage that appropriately to make it better for everybody else, then I should be doing that first.

Yes. Very well. So what does your community look like as far as who do you surround yourself with to maintain your high standards of yourself and for your organization and your drive?

This is a great question. Because anybody that knows when they're, you know, the top person in their organization, especially in a community minded organization, where you are a public Fire, a political Fire, it's difficult. And depending on how engaged your community is, how, how big of a department. It sounds kind of cliche, but there is really something about the friends you had before you got to where you are. And it's not because you don't trust. You just can't afford somebody else to make a mistake The affects who you are as a person, what your goals are, what your dreams are, or what your position is. And so you really kinda do stick with it it's small. It feels small sometimes, and that can be hard because some of my closest confidants are fire chiefs that are thousands of miles away from here.

One, it's because they're amazing people and I've really latched onto them. 2, because they understand they're living it. And 3, because they have nothing to do with my community and I can really share the down and the dirty. Very lucky I have a handful of very close girlfriends, and they understand it. It took some of them a little bit of time to understand when I came into the role. And there were a couple of things that happened that, you know, were more public, if you will. Nothing bad. But, you know, people watch.

People post on social media. People think they know and they don't. We're all allowed to have a personal life, but I fully accept that my personal life translates different in the public and a part of that is less personal. I understand. I'm the one that raised my right hand. I took this job. I'm fine with that. Right? I knew what the workload.

I knew it was gonna be 247. I knew my life wouldn't be entirely private. But that doesn't mean on a day to day, it doesn't make it just sometimes complicated, sometimes frustrating, sometimes sad. But what I get out of it, this job is magical. This position, nobody talks about it, saying it's one of the greatest jobs if you let it be. And that doesn't mean it's easy or, you know, there aren't days that I cry or aren't frustrated. It's really magic to make people happy and to do things for them. Like, I go back and forth.

I take it with a grain of salt, but the community is small and that's probably the hardest part. And, you know, you probably know this better than anyone, probably speaking to the choir when you leave the fire service because right. Hopefully, I will leave under my own terms, but I serve at the pleasure. When you leave, I swear it must feel like you lose a limb because it's almost like done. Right? When you transfer from a station, those people are Fire godparents and bridesmaids, and and all of a sudden, you go to a different station, you don't hear a peep from them. Like, it's gotta be difficult. I I don't envy that about, you know, your transition.

It was a lot harder than I thought. I think what made it a little easier for me initially was I left the department I grew up in. After almost 19 years, I went to a smaller department, same state, just a longer commute, and it was, like, so heartbreaking to leave my Fire apartment because, like I said, I grew up there. I all my foundational memories were there. It was part of me, and yet that was part of why I left because I grew up there, and it was just so much. And so taking that Fire leap and realizing that, yeah, I talked to maybe 3 or 4 people that I used to work with that I thought was my world at that bigger department. And then when I went to the smaller department, it was a lot of growth and a lot of challenges there, but I survived it. And then the same thing, when I realized that I needed to leave the fire service, I thought, okay.

I broke up mentally in my head a while before I told Her I was leaving, and I thought that that would be okay, but my body just didn't get it. So, you know, learning how to sleep, not having a rigid schedule. You know, the sleep was amazing. That was my whole focus last summer was learning how to sleep again on a normal, like and my husband would be like, you didn't move. He's like, I would wake up to make sure you were breathing because I would sleep so heavy for the first time in 24 years. I could just sleep. But then it was other things bubbled up. It was a lot harder than I thought.

My brain couldn't figure out what to do every day. You know, just adjusting living, at being at home all the time.

Eating is a whole is a whole thing when you're not on ship work, but I take all that into consideration. I think maybe that's why I feel so attached to the now is I just wanna soak it all up. It's so good. And right. And I know some of these folks won't be my friends for a lifetime. But they're important to me now. They play a significant role in my life and how I'm getting through, you know, and enjoying life. So I believe in seasons.

Right? And and this is just a great season with me and other fire chiefs and my confidantes, and I'll have another season with other people.

Yes. And such a healthy outlook. And, yes, that's exactly what I've kind of landed on. I have now met some amazing people. My my circle, my life has all changed. It's been really different and kind of exciting and a little scary, and almost like going back to, you know, being the new kid at school, meeting people, dating, kind of Fire all these things on, are we gonna get along? Are we gonna be friends? Are we not gonna be friends? So it's it's very similar to that. I think some of the same emotions that I probably had when I was 8 come up. I'm like, oh, okay.

And it doesn't always work out, and that's okay too. I think it's great to say, you know what? I love my job, and I have fun. That's fantastic because I don't think we hear that enough from Chiefs either. You know? Like, oh, it's so hard, or I'm so burned out. I'm so stressed. I'm Fire, then why are you doing it? Because if you get no love and satisfaction and enjoyment and fulfillment from serving your organization and serving your community, then move on because there will be someone who does. And that energy, just like when you walk into a room, it permeates throughout the entire organization. So it's so important to you are the tip of the spear.

You're the chief. You're the the top designated adult, And how you react and act sets the stage. It's really important.

You know, these are all such minor changes, and there's so many great things that, you know, my team has Diane, but there's little things Fire previously you weren't just given a promotion. Right? You're next on the list and you would get the call from the chief that says you're promoted. I don't give anything. I ask them, do you accept a promotion, The responsibility to be a lieutenant, to be a captain? Because that's on you. Right? You're gonna say yes. You're gonna do the work. I did the same thing, and I know what I said yes to. Right? Why would you say yes to a job that you don't know what the expectations are and what the parameters are? This is the side of the fire service that is very emotional and traditional.

And to me, those are not pillars of a business. Do you want to do this job? Yes. Can you? Yes. Right. I've said yes to a bunch of these things. I've put you through a process. You have to be willing to accept it and do the work. So just changing some of those little things to say, if we have to have an honest conversation, you said yes.

You told me you were ready. I verified that you are. Tell me why you're not doing the work. Right? There's there's an accountability piece that comes with the enjoyment piece. But you're right. Chiefs don't talk about how cool it is. I do all the time. But like I said, that doesn't mean that I don't have a whole lots of hair coloring in here and, you know, all of the all of the things when I look in the mirror, and I'm like, oh lord.

Well and you can have both. It can be amazing and stressful. It can bring you great joy and be really hard sometimes. It doesn't diminish either one. It's possible to hold 2 tensions and limit yourself from joy. Life is short. Being here in the here and now and being present is so important, so don't limit yourself with that joy or, you know I

don't know anybody that has joy every day. I don't think that's healthy either. There's there's no perspective there. Right? If every day was amazing and every day we were happy, like, to me, happiness off of some of the difficulties. Right? You just it's all kind of fluid, but it is very cool.

That's awesome. Well and you don't learn. So if everything is roses and rainbows and unicorns, no one would learn anything. We would all be stuck, and no one would grow because you don't grow in those parts. You grow through the adversity and the challenges. So what would you say to someone who is in the middle of their career? And buyer service, yes, but I think it's applicable to anyone who's just kind of in the middle of life. Right? Like, realizing that this is where I'm at in life right now. I'm on the the downhill slide or pretty close to the downhill slide, the back half of my life, and I want more fulfillment, more joy, and I'm not sure how to get that.

What piece of advice would you give to someone?

The first thing that comes to mind is their level of self awareness. I think that is by far one of the strongest qualitative leadership traits that directly translates to how well you know yourself, what you want, how you can serve others doing that. But regardless if you're just, you know, like you're talking about, you're just looking for what do I do? Right? What do I want? How do I make these decisions? If you don't know yourself well, you're never gonna be able to find that happiness. Right? You're never gonna be able to understand, what you like about something, what you don't. I think that's fair to say too. You can look back on the job that you're currently doing. You can look back on previous things. I find people have difficulty saying, I really liked this about the job.

I really liked doing this. I'll give you an example. I worked in the fire marshal's office doing investigations, so fire investigations. And one of the reasons that I felt I personally struggled in there is the rate of case closures is very low because, you know, you get undetermined when you're investigating a house fire or, you know, this and that. And the time frame, because we're all law enforcement and they're going through court cases, my level of satisfaction of being able to able to get gratification was so delayed. And The, one, wasn't my personality type, because a lot of it was waiting on other things out of my control, and 2 was not what I had experienced out in the field. Right? We're very rapid gratification call to call to call. And I really struggled with, like, feeling successful and finding success.

I ended up having to find it in my own ways, still doing that job, which I really actually loved. But starting to go back to school, taking other classes where I was feeling achievement on the side and then trying to translate that energy in. But I didn't realize it was the rate of success. It was that rate of achievement. So I try to look back, and I would suggest that for anyone to look back at Her did you feel. Right? If you can't figure out what it is, somebody once said to me, tell me how you feel when you think about that. You know? So if you think about this job that you loved working at Chick Fil A, what made you happy? Like, tell me give me a scenario where you're happy. Right? You're not gonna be able to articulate what it was, but maybe it was the customer service.

Maybe it was the fact that you got to stand outside all day and you love the weather. You can find other ways to ask yourself the The. You know, if you don't know what it is and you can't put your finger on it, tell me when you felt good about something and then look at that one thing. And then literally make a list and pull those things and try to figure out jobs that are associated with that and and move forward. But if there's job security and there's, you know, all the right things, the health care, the money, I say try it. To me, you have to have the practicality of those things. Right? Because you're not gonna want to jump into a job to try when you're making $8 an hour. You're not gonna be able to live.

Right? Or The creates its own stress. You gotta really set up all The stuff in order to really be able to take the leap and then give it a chance. Right? Don't go, it's been 3 months.

Thank you for sharing that advice, and I could not agree more that until you've done the self awareness part and kind of gotten to know yourself, it's like chasing your tail, going back to the puppy reference. You're never gonna catch it.

Yeah. And you're gonna find out things that you're not really crazy about with yourself. But, you know, we I just had a a firefighter come in for their lieutenant's interview. And, you know, if there are things that you don't like about yourself and you don't know that others will find it and eventually it will probably get used against you or, you know, not in a manner of which you're aware of. So we should find that first about ourselves. Doesn't mean you have to fix everything, but have an idea.

Well, and everyone has it. Like, no one's perfect. Everyone has messy parts. Everyone has parts of them that, you know, maybe aren't the best version of themselves. But I think that helped me really understand, like, oh, I'm not the only one who has messy parts Fire everyone does. And then you see that humanity in people, and, like, oh, okay. So it's not, you know, just me. It's everyone struggles and has challenges, and no one's perfect.

No one knocks it out of the park a 100% of the time. That's just not realistic. Well, and you can't relate to people then because if your life is always perfect, how can you relate to someone else who's really having a hard time when we talk about empathy and, you know, really getting to know people on that emotional level and connecting below the few inches of the Fire. You just gotta be aware that everyone's got their scars that they carry around.

Yeah. And you just hope in their perfect moment that when they smile Her perfect smile, that maybe there's something in their tooth Her, you know. Right? Because that's normal.

Exactly. Right. Or and and then really the question is, are you gonna tell them they have something in their teeth? That's Oh, yeah.

Because I would wanna know. I checked my teeth before we got on here. I would hope you would tell me.

Absolutely. And likewise, I I feel like that's really an important, you know, trait to have. So, you know, just make sure that when that perfect person walks in, give it a minute or 2, and then tell them.

Just kidding. Safety. Women women always take care of women.

Exactly. I always gotta look out for each other. Well, Trisha, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and giving us your time and your perspective, and I just I'm so grateful to chat with you.

It has been wonderful. I love talking with you. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. I'm honored to be a part of it.

Another great conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value, one of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So, I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to the Fire inside her dot com slash value to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.