We’re back for another very fun interview on our podcast of Unlocking YOUR World of Creativity. We go around the world to talk to creative practitioners and leaders about how they get inspired, how they organize their ideas, and how they gain the confidence and connections to launch their work out into the world. 

Today, we explore the world of NYC-based artist and creative director Asher Young.  Asher He is the founder of Challenge Your Imagination, a creative direction, design, and producing studio developing projects internally and for others. 

Our main conversation will be around Asher’s most recent piece Pathways at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden, going on Tour with DPR, and what the collaboration and logistical side of creating these immersive audience experiences are like.

Pathways at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden use lasers to draw lines of light between a series of trees, creating a visible network and illuminating a new path for Lightscape visitors to explore. 

Asher describes it as “a high-powered laser that bounces off trees through the botanic gardens that you can see at night. It’s a beam of life that sort of ricochets between the trees”

• The focus of the piece is on Mycorrhizal networks. Inspired through the works and science of Suzanne Simard, an ecologist discovered that trees communicate their needs and send each other nutrients via a network of latticed fungi buried in the soil — in other words, she found, they “talk” to each other  

Asher explains, “that her work discovered that it's not competition. Plants actually share resources”

Pathways utilize light, which is the source of nutrients for the plants at night, to show those connections when a lot of that work is being done.

DPR: Regime Tour is a world tour that immerses fans in the world of music collective DPR. Asher talks about the part of the creative process with this world tour is about rethinking what the concert experience could be from the perspective of an audience. 

• How do we merge theater, art, installation, and music? 
• How do we think about collectives and how do we demonstrate that to the audience?
• How do we use the pre-show to warm people up to other things that are gonna happen later?

The show opens in September 2022 

Mark asks: “What are the logistics of moving this experience from city to city?”

• when you're doing 55 cities worldwide and they're all different sizes
• it does have to fit in trailers
• It feels like five or six iterations of the concept and the physical elements of the show are incredibly modular

The running theme through the interview was collaboration and Asher explains how he and his team approach it “by establishing the framework of what matters and the idea that we're trying to articulate, the teams can come together and sort of ricochet and problem solve around it while maintaining that core principle.”

Toward the end of the interview, Asher gave us a few sneak peeks into future projects in the works. He said they are developing internally a lot of shows and experiences that are more hospitality-based or hotel-based, some that cross genres, i.e.; a dinner theater show, and projects that are more art-based. We look forward to seeing what’s next in the creative mind of Asher Young.

You can reach out to Asher Young, and see his creative works at cyi.studio

Also, check out his Instagram page @cy.studio

Welcome back friends to our podcast, Unlocking Your World of Creativity. And today we're gonna un unlock some new worlds of creativity worlds with stories and worlds, with immersive experiences, combining computer science and lights, art, music, theater, alter, create a great, uh, audience experience. My guess is Asher Young. Asher, welcome to the program.

Oh, thanks so much for having me. I'm very excited to be

Here. Yeah. Well, Asher is a creative director, but to say creative director, uh, is almost an understatement. He, he really is creating these virtual worlds, uh, of experience, uh, developing, uh, festival exhibits, uh, living artwork. And now he's gonna be going on the road this fall with dpr, uh, another kind of music experience. Asher, tell us about this general creative process of yours that you say, you know, when somebody says, I want to create a experience, where does your mind go in terms of what ingredients could be a part of that experience?

You know, it, it's a really great question. Cause I think I come from the background that I was a magician for 10 years. I was, did haunted houses. You know, I've, I've and I, and I spent a long time in theater, so I have sort of a, a world that comes from art and theater, and so I always try to approach things from a narrative perspective as well as what is the audience's relationship to the work, right? And so we have so many tools at our disposal, you know, to create a specific piece, whether it's art or theater or even technology or scenic or, you know, all these things. But the way we like to phrase it is the audience is the protagonist, right? And so what do we want them to experience and feel in a given moment? And the way that I sort of always approach things is try to get as specific as possible, um, and say the audience walks into a room and it's raining, you know, and, you know, and then move through a show and brainstorm around the narrative concept in very specific like frames so that everyone can sort of rally around a specific image and then start to actually build that narrative together, whether it's a personal project or it's a project for, you know, a commission to work for a client.

Mm-hmm.

. And even to say that it's a story boarded or framed out, you know, you imagine this, I'm going to take you on a journey, not just, I'm gonna create, well, like my virtual background here. I'm not just creating a, Hey, don't, don't knock this , but I mean, you are taking people through a journey.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think part of that is also, you know, uh, being humble about, you know, not prescribing the emotions that you will feel in a given circumstance, Right? And instead sort of creating, uh, the environment or us telling a story in the work or the specific topic of the piece. And then allowing audiences to have their own emotional responses. You know, we don't say the audience feels sad in this moment, you know, we're like, we tell a story that for some people will be sad, for some people will be melancholy and people can arrive at their own emotional, uh, reaction. But we sort of create the worlds in which these things exist. Mm-hmm.

and thinking about one recent project in particular, this Pathways at the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, take everything we just said, uh, kind of conceptually Yeah. And bring it to life. Show us how that thought process was brought to life in this pathways.

Absolutely. So, um, lemme tell you what Pathways is practically before I tell you about it. Conceptually, just, um, it is a high powered laser that bounces off trees through the botanic gardens, um, that you can see at night. You know, you don't need fog or anything like that. It's just this beam of life that's sort of ricochet between the, the trees. And, you know, that's a piece, we have sort of two sides of the studio, the one side which is commissioned work, and the other side, which is our own projects, right? And that pathways came out of our own projects. And we've been developing this installation and trying to figure out a way in specific communities or environments to show, uh, connections or unseen infrastructure in a given place. And how do we illuminate that for other people? So when we were asked to present the piece to the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, we were doing a lot of research into natural environments and what are connections that people do not see.

Cuz you know, people go through the garden every day, you know, and see the beautiful trees and the flowers and how that changes over time. But what we really came to focus in on was Microrisal networks. And so Susan Soard is like a really famous, uh, ecologist as, as many, many more titles as than that. But she actually, her work discovered that it's not competition. Plants actually share resources, right? So an older tree will help a younger tree survive, right? And so we wanted to show that for audiences, and how do we do that? We try to find a really harsh lighting element, right? That contrast nature, because it's something that is happening in this environment, but you do not see it. And utilizing light, which is literally the source of nutrients for the plants at night, to show those connections when a lot of that work is being done.

And so the audience would come into the garden, they walk down a dark path, and they just see a beam of light come through the trees, and then you follow it and you go to a tree, and then you see it turn at a 90 degree angle in another direction. You follow it. And as it's, as it's bouncing, you see the light slowly start to diverge. And the white light, you see a little bit of red, a little bit of pink, a little bit of purple, and you, you start to see all these things that have combined into this one beam as you navigate the networks of trees that are communicating. So, you know, that is the way we try to articulate things to people is what are you seeing? And then what idea is coming to the table?

Sure. Thanks for painting that picture for us. Well, and to pick up on the idea of just the way nature, and you were talking about the trees and the plants and how they all work together. I couldn't now, but think of the collaborations that it takes for you to create such a, you know, thing. And so sometimes we focus on the, the creative director, the star, Oh, I had all the ideas and I, you know, sort of directed this, but tell, talk about the collaboration that it takes Sure. To bring a creative idea like that to life.

I, so I think you hit on it is, you know, nowadays to do anything of scale, you know, you need a huge team, right? It's not just me painting a picture on a canvas, which is in, you know, incredibly impressive. But in order to have lasers, you know, there's laser specialists, there's operators on e stops that if something goes wrong, they have to hit a button. Like, you know, there's engineering, there's a whole bunch of stuff. And so part of this is the first step for me on the collaboration is trying to articulate the idea externally that is engaging and make sense and understand what is the core principle so that everyone can problem solve the logistics to that same directive, right? Because inevitably it is not as easy as I've come up with this artistic idea, make it happen. There's a million problems that we don't even think about. Like what happens if a squirrel walks in front of the laser beat

couldn't help but wonder that,

Right? All

These things. Is this attracting or detracting birds? Yes,

Exactly. And, and like, is it, does it hurt the plants? How do we, what do the botnets have botanists have to say about it? You know? And so all of that is, I, the way that I and my team approach it is if we establish the framework of what matters and the idea that we're trying to articulate, the teams can come together and sort of ricochet and problem solve around it while maintaining that core principle, right? And so every way, and they care more people care more as a result, right? It's not just, Oh, I'm installing a laser today. It's like, oh no, it has to hit this tree and show that this tree is gonna do that tree. And it's, those are, that, that's how the teams get really, like, focused in a, in a positive way. So that the piece is ultimately something that is a reflection of what is possible, but also, um, how do we do this every day and not have it be reliable? Because a lot of, a lot of the work is, you can do it once, but can you do it for six weeks in a row?

Right? This, this is a good point. And can you replicate it, you know, installation to installation sometimes? Absolutely.

Yeah. Absolutely. And so I am the sum of all those collaborations, right? Like I, I am not a laser specialist. I happen to know a laser specialist and his team, and then we know the parks team. And like, so it, it is, every project has tw tens to hundreds of people all contributing to make a thing happen. Mm-hmm.

. Well, and you're also bringing up some, some fun little geeky and nerdy kind of science things. Uh, but it's worth telling the listeners, this is not just creative magic. I mean, you have a degree from Yale and computing and the arts. , I loved when I read it, was an interdisciplinary program of computer science, art, music, theater. What, what, what else could you add to this mix, right? ? But, uh, you know, it does sound like an interesting sort of path of study, not just sort of artistic talent.

Yeah. It, it, it's, it. So, you know, when I was there, it was one to two graduates a year in this, uh, and, and it has now grown very much since. And I think calling it a path of study, I think is really, really smarter. You, because what it really is is it, it allowed you to sort of figure out how to work through problems like this. It was not, it doesn't prepare you for a job , right? Like anything like that. But it really gives you deep theatrical and artistic rigor, right? As well as figuring out ways to build the relationships and collaborations to figure out how to execute on it, whether it's you executing or, and a lot of times my case is just knowing enough to get us pointed in the right direction to find the people who can help us, right? Cause by no means I'm an expert in all those things, but I can sort of sniff out if actually you're not gonna be your good collaborator, or actually, uh, I don't, I don't believe what you're saying, , you know, and that that's actually sort of the, the best skillset I took from that. It's like that, that living practice of going back and forth between the ideological idea and finding the people to help execute alongside us,

I love that you say it doesn't just prepare you to get a job. I can't imagine somebody, uh, being a little intimidated by a, a job posting that said, you must have a degree in computer science, art, theater, you know, .

Yeah. No, impossible combination.

That's right. It just prepares you to do the work. Yeah. I love that. Well, let's talk about your current, uh, project. You're going on tour, you've developed a whole experience, uh, with dpr. Tell us who DPR is, what you've been working with them on.

Yeah. Um, we haven't opened yet, so I'm gonna have to be a little tight lift about it. So I apologize about that in, in advance. I mean, so DPR is a career in music collective. Uh, and they, they, uh, brought, uh, my, my studio on about seven months ago at this point, um, to sort of rethink what the concert experience could be and from the perspective of an audience. So how do we merge theater, art, installation, and music? Um, and so, you know, the show's gonna open in September, which that's why I've, I'm, I'm, I'm in outta New York. We're about to start rehearsals this weekend is

Gonna be very well, let, let's project ourselves, Asher, cuz this episode will be airing after that. So Oh, great. Pretend that, uh, we are in the 1st of October and, uh Oh, amazing. Didn't say anything we want.

Great. All right. I'll hold you to it. Um, yeah. Uh, so, so I think the thing is like, how do we change the, the audience's relationship to a concert, right? And so what's very exciting about this process is we started by on one hand developing a narrative about, about sacrifice and like, what does it take to birth a collective body, right? Like, how do we think about collectives and how do we demonstrate that to audience? And on the other hand is how do we take the pre, uh, what's the word? How do we take the standards of concerts, right? Of like the experience you walk in, you have to go through metal detectors, then you, if you wanna check your coat, you know, all that kinda stuff. You walk into a room and then there's like music playing while the first hour before the show starts.

How do we take all those norms and slowly pick away at them and, and flip them, right? And so, you know, one of the early ideas we had is that you walk into the space and it's an hour long sound installation before the show. So you sort of, you come in the audience expecting to have the normal concert experience and you walk in and then all of a sudden there's snippets of interviews and stories and like you are walking into a space that we've completely taken control of just by sound. It's not that it's, we don't have a really complicated system or anything like that, but just doing the things that we can control and changing those environments and the entire show is built like that and it's constantly moving and hopefully in unpredictable ways, uh, we'll see by the time we get to the end. Yes.

Well, it sounds a whole lot different than you come into a, uh, arena and you sit down and you hear the background music for 30 minutes. Yeah. So you're, you're creating something different right from the start. It sounds like

That. I think that, and that's, and, and in the spirit of like, how do we set the audience in the right head space for the rest of the experience? Like we want to, the, the moment you walk in dislocate that experience, so then you are, you are primed to be open to what's gonna happen next, right? Cause you also wanna take care of the audience. You don't wanna just throw them into the deep end and have them not feel like they're brought along on that journey. So we slowly have to do things to be like, Okay, this is not gonna be normal, but it's gonna be great and fun. Let, lets have a good time together. So like, that's part of that experience. How do we use the pre-show to warm people up to other things that are gonna happen later?

Yes. And then going back to our logistical, you know, how do we repeat this thing? I'm looking at the concert, uh, tour list, and you're going, you know, Atlanta to Washington, to Boston, to Chicago and Minneapolis and all points in between. Then why don't we, uh, take it on the road to South America and we'll bring it around to Europe and then we'll close out in, uh, Asia and Australia. Uh, talk about the logistics of moving this experience from city to city. This has gotta be more than the tour bus, uh, trailer kind of of thing.

And so, you know, interestingly hats it ha it does have to fit in trailers. Like, it, it's, you know, we're, we are not, um, able to reinvent the transportation pipeline. Um, but I will say, like my team is the, the, the creative studio, right? And there's also a production studio as well. But we've been working together for six months on this show about exactly as you said, like how do they replicate this every night and not have the show degrade? And so what does that mean? That means we've gone through me. It feels like five or six iterations of the concept and the physical elements of the show to be incredibly modular. How does it break down? Also, how do we then think about a show that is human driven, not driven by massive props or, or, or complicated things? Because ultimately they are not able to consistently have that team around the world. There's gonna be some of that team, but not the entire team. So a lot of that replication is simplifying and trying to make the ideas impactful from a content perspective. Not a, let me just throw the most complicated design at it, because ultimately that is not feasible. Um, when you're doing 55 cities worldwide and they're all different sizes, like, you know,

It's, Well, and, and I guess I'm looking at the calendar and first of all, I saw the list, but now I'm looking at the dates and they are literally every other day from now to Christmas. So

It's, it's one of those things and it's, and it, everything, I just came from the shop. I know this, we're gonna be talking in the future, but I, I literally just came from the shop as things are being made and, you know, they're, they're trying to make it as plug and play as possible, right? Labeling things with like red, like show a, when we're in this kind of venue, show b to in this kind of venue. So everything is like super Lincoln logs, you know, Lego style flexible, right? Um, but as you said, everything gets loaded on the, on the trucks. Team goes to sleep, they wake up, they're at the next event, and like they have to do it again. And so it's just, it's a, it's a constant, it's a constant flip that has to happen, which is incredible. And I have so much respect for the team that does it every that's gonna do it every

Day. Yeah. Well, dpr being this kind of multi-gen, multicultural, uh, again, thinking about the breadth of the cities, you're going from Lima, Peru to Berlin, Germany. Have you thought about the audience differences or similarities? I mean, how, how are you projecting yourself in designing an experience for such diverse, uh, crowds?

Well, I think it all comes back to the artist, right? You know, there the, none of the audience is coming to this with any idea what's gonna happen from the show perspective, right? They're coming because they love the artists, all of them. One of them, some combination of them that are performing, right? And so the sort of beautiful grounding that we have and sort of the, the script that we have is like the music that has been written and is gonna be performed, right? And so that is the great UNFI of all of this in that if you're coming to see DPR E and DPR live, you, that's your fan. Like you're fan of them and you're gonna, um, so that is great. The secondary question is, what if you don't speak English? You know, what if you don't, You know, what if you speak Spanish?

What, how did, how does this become an experience that is not, uh, language have language barriers and things like that. And a lot of that ultimately is thinking visual gestures that are easy to identify. Like establishing clear distinct worlds. Like one world that is bright and bold colors one world that is monochromatic. So you understand the contrast. How do you tell the narrative through design? So even if you're not paying attention to the story, you can sense the arc in the change. Um, like a lot of that work is, is building upon the music and the script that already exists and finding visual metaphors for those moments that sort of crosscut, if we're in Berlin or, or in Peru. You know, I think that is, that is a lot of the work that has to go into it because ultimately the songs or the songs, right. And that's what sort of guides us through it all.

Fantastic. Well, and uh, I often, you know, ask my creative guests, How do people find you? You know, cuz I think about, you know, you've worked with ASAP Rocky and, uh, uh, you know, now with DPR and All points in between creating these installations. But, uh, I, I assume somebody knows what to Google or they've heard your reputation or one person knows somebody else. How, how do you find you for this gig, ?

Uh, this, I mean, a lot of it is word of mouth, right? And in that, like, you do one thing and then people see it and they wanna talk to you about it or someone you know, or someone you had a relationship with. You know, this show to be very specific was I did a another, uh, many, many years ago I was designing another K-pop tour that was like much more standard, right? It wasn't that novel. And the promoter of that company I had met and we reconnected over the pandemic, uh, when everyone had much more time on their hands. Um, and, you know, we caught up and he called me, uh, about a year ago, he called me and said, I have this show. Um, I'm nervous about introducing you because if I introduce you, this means this show is gonna really change .

Like, uh, like it, like right now it's a normal concert, but if you get involved, I know it's gonna change. Um, and so he said like, Let me figure it out. And then four or five months later, he called back and he was like, Okay, we're doing this. And, and we got in touch with the artists. And the artists absolutely got on the same page and everything moved forward in that way. Um, but I think interestingly before the pandemic, it was all word of mouth. And then throughout the pandemic we had to do a lot more effort of educating people on the work that we do. Because, you know, we're not a marketing company, you know, we're not doing events for, you know, Apple, you know, or anything like that. No, nothing wrong with that. Just we come, we're brought in for a very specific type of show where people want to push it or want to do something that merges genres or has a performance art element.

And as a result, we've had to learn how to start doing a little bit of education about why is this different and why does this take so much time, Right? This has taken six months of full-time development for this show versus like other concerts. There's a design and you put it up and it's incredible. But it's, it's, it's a different process than that. So recently, it's funny you asked today, there's also a lot of education that's happening beyond just picking up the phone and someone saying, Ed, do you wanna do this? You know? Yeah. So it's an interesting new moment actually.

Well, and I know your neck deep into this, uh, project, in this tour, but can you look over the horizon? Can you periscope at all and say, you know, here's either what's coming for you or what you'd like to do next, You know, cause some of you get to make your own journey .

Um, definitely can parascope. So, you know, interestingly enough, we're working with a museum in Philadelphia, uh, to reimagine, uh, one of their, um, big curatorial events that happens every year. Um, so, you know, it's funny, we we're having to talk a lot about music today, but we, I'm al we also do stuff in the art world in the museum where we get, we get pulled in across a wide variety of things. Um, you know, so that is coming up. We're developing internally a lot of shows and experiences, uh, some that are like more hospitality based or hotel based, some that are, you know, that cross genres a little bit. So when we specifically get over the hump of this show, you know, I think there's gonna be a moment of recalibration as we always do, uh, to sort of ground ourselves again. Um, and then we have a couple of projects that are more art based that are gonna come up as well as a, a dinner theater show, which hopefully will come together next year. So, you know, it, because these shows take a long time to develop, right? Uh, we have a little bit of window, right? It's, it's, there's occasional moment where we're doing the really fast event or something like that. But actually a lot of the work itself takes time. So we have about a six to eight month lead time where we think we're going, uh, which always changes all the time, but for the most part, we do have a little bit of what we're done.

I love that. Well, Asher, before we close, I do have another question for you, but wanna make sure that people know how to connect with you and follow your work and learn more about what you do.

Amazing. Um, so, you know, if you wanna reach, reach us out, reach out to us. Our website is cyi.studio. That's the best way to reach us. Otherwise, we have an Instagram, which is@cy.studio. Um, and, you know, a lot of work, we, we sort of post work as it comes and sometimes we're very secretive of it, but reach out, we always reply, you know, and part of part of our mystique is like, we try to hold back until things are fully formed. So, you know, that's, that's the best way to reach out

To us. Well, makes a lot of sense. We'll be sure to put all that in the show notes, uh, for you listeners as well. Well, you know, we've been talking a lot about the creativity and the lots of ingredients into building these worlds, but collaboration has been a theme I've heard throughout our conversation. And as you have looked over now and over the horizon, thinking about new projects, are there collaborators you hope to attract or that you're seeking to come work with you? Uh, either by name or by talent, but, you know, what sort of people are you looking to team up with to grow your craft?

Yeah, so I think what I, the kinds of people that I want to collaborate with are, there's two categories. There's one that, that is the technical specialist to help us achieve an idea that we want to achieve, right? That I'm gonna push aside. Cause I think that's pretty self-express. The part of it that we actually spend most of the time looking to develop are people who are experts in their field and also put really on the sidelines. So like, who is the up and coming fashion designer? Who is the, the chef who is experimenting with flavors that no one has really touched with? You know, I had a, we did a show where we had a chef who was, how do we change the flavor palette? You eat this thing and your entire palette is altered, right? And then how do, how does then we serve a meal after that? So I am always interested in finding the people that are doing completely different things, and how do we bring each other together? Because we're, we're often have same approaches, but we have different mediums in which we're looking to explore, and then we try to push them all together on something that we're excited about.

Uh, I love that. And it's interesting because people ask me what kind of creative people I wanna bring on the podcast. And I, I often answer much like you did, It's like, hey, if they're doing something creative that's pushing the envelope, that's, you know, switching things up, uh, then let's hear about it. Uh, so it's interesting you're looking for those same kind of collaborations. I hope, uh, those people coalesce who then they might be listening to the program. We'd love to make some of those connections.

No, I would love that. I would love that. Especially like yourself, always new people. I think that also keeps us thinking about new ideas, right? Otherwise we create the same thing over and over again, which is a different practice in the practice that I hope to foster. Wow.

Wonderful. Well, Asher Young, can't thank you enough for being a guest on the program.

Thank you so much for having me

And all the best on these world travels. Good luck with the tour. Thank

You so much.

We'll be following on Instagram for sure. ?

Yes.

Fantastic. And listeners, come back again next time. On our next episode, we'll continue our around the world journeys. We talk to creative practitioners everywhere. We've stamped our creative passport in New York City today. But we'll be, we'll be continuing our journeys to talk to creative practitioners everywhere about how they get inspired and how they organize those ideas. And most of all, how they gain the confidence and the connections for collaborations to launch the work out into the world. So until next time, I'm Mark Stinson and we're unlocking your world of creativity bye, for now.