On Zephyr’s Adjusted for Risk Podcast, host Ryan Nauman welcomes David Lau, founder of DPL Financial Partners, to discuss how modern, low-cost, commission-free annuities can help address retirement income gaps as pensions decline and Social Security remains uncertain. Lau explains why annuities are polarizing—largely due to commissions driving higher costs, complexity, and surrender periods—and how DPL works with carriers and technology to bring over 100 commission-free products to fee-based and fee-only advisors. They cover key use cases including lifetime income, downside protection to manage sequence risk, and tax deferral for high earners, plus replacing older, higher-cost annuities. Lau also describes how commission-free annuities can help advisors differentiate with prospects, increase recurring fee revenue, improve firm valuation, and support independence by bringing annuity assets under management without maintaining a broker-dealer affiliation.

Learn more about Zephyr here.

Learn more about DPL Financial Partners here.

00:00 Welcome and Setup

01:33 Meet David Lau

04:32 Why Annuities Polarize

06:44 Commission Free Evolution

11:36 Retirement Income Benefits

14:16 Income Riders Explained

17:29 Suitability and Liquidity

20:18 Simple Products Not Sold

21:50 Advisor Use Cases

23:54 Practice Growth and Value

26:36 Independence Transition Hurdles

30:25 Planning Your Move

32:25 Wrap Up and Resources

Connect with Ryan Nauman:

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Let's go.

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Ryan Nauman Market Strategist Zephyr:

Hello everyone and welcome to zephyr's

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Adjusted for Risk Podcast from the shores

of Lake Tahoe For years Americans were

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able to rely on pensions and social

security that help fund retirement Now

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pensions are becoming a thing of the

past and the future of social security

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is shall I say uncertain One strategy

to offset the lack of retirement income

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is annuities I have on the perfect

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about all things annuities some new

annuity products and innovations that

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might remove some of the hurdles of

including annuities in your wealth

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management practice first today's episode

is sponsored by the award-winning Zephyr

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Which helps investment professionals make

more informed investment decisions on

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behalf of their clients All right Enough

from me Let's go ahead and move on to the

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star of the show I would like to give a

very warm welcome to David Lau David is

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the founder of DPL Financial Partners

David thank you so much for coming on

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the show It's an honor to have you on

Can you please tell us a little bit more

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about yourself and DPL Financial Partners

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David Lau Founder DPL Financial Partners:

Yeah, happy to.

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Thanks so much for having me on, Ryan.

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Really look forward to the conversation.

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And I hope we didn't lose too

many people when you mentioned

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we're gonna talk about annuities.

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So the we're, we're gonna talk about

modern annuities, to be clear, which means

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low cost, commission free products, and,

you know, that's what DPL is all about.

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You know, prior to founding DPL, I've

spent, you know, embarrassingly enough

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at this point, 30 years in financial

services and really on, you know, a

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manufacturing side and trying to drive

costs out of product delivery in order

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to provide better consumer products.

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So I started my career at,

at a place called Telebank.

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It was the first internet bank in

the country, and the notion there

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was if we could eliminate the

branch, we can provide, eliminate

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a lot of overhead, and provide much

better products to the end client.

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I was then at E-Trade where we were,

you know, where our CMO there and

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we were taking costs out of the, you

know, out of trading and executing

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and driving, again, consumer value.

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And then prior to DPL, I built

an insurance carrier called

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Jefferson National, which was

focused on, you know, the RIA and.

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And, you know, fee-based advisor market.

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And the notion in insurance is of

course the big inefficiency for

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the end consumer is the commission.

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Commission drives up price,

it drives up complexity.

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And importantly today for

financial advisors, it doesn't

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really match their business model.

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You know, annuities and insurance

are one of the last bastions

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of commissioned products.

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You know, in financial services.

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Most of financial services has bifurcated.

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Advisor compensation and product cost,

meaning advisors are getting paid, you

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know, by their clients for advice rather

than by product companies for sales.

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And so DPL, we work with carriers

across the industry to bring

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commission free products to market.

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We build tremendous technology that

allows advisors to find the most efficient

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products for their clients and we're

trying to really drive the modernization

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of annuities, both in pricing and usage.

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Ryan: David that's fantastic and thank you

for that backdrop And you're exactly right

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and when I started 20 years ago I worked

for financial planning practice and we

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did a fair amount of annuity business and

like our clients who had annuities they

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loved them who doesn't love just sitting

on the beach getting a check No it's

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not a check but just getting a monthly

Stream of income to their bank account

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it sounds fantastic benefit to dividends

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David Lau: that's right.

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Ryan: But as you mentioned at the

beginning like when I mentioned

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annuities everyone leaving the show Why

is that Why do you think there is that

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kind of misconception or just thought

process of annuities Oh my gosh We

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don't want to hear about annuities Drop

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David Lau: It's, it's, it's

really maybe the most polarizing

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product in financial services.

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You know, like people have immediate.

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Kind of emotional reactions

to annuities, right.

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The, you know, the

traditional fee only advisors.

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Like, I would never touch an annuity.

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I would never recommend an annuity.

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And, and I think it's really because

of the commission, you know, and

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that's really became a dividing line.

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You know, back in the day, you

know, a couple of decades ago,

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commissions weren't as divisive.

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You know, commissions were, you know, the

way a lot of financial advisors grew up.

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Selling iShares, you know, use

using commission annuities.

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It's kind of the way the business has

evolved, but now it has been really, you

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know, such a long time that we, we've

started seeing in asset management almost

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nobody uses iShares anymore, right?

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That that evolution has already

happened, and in insurance it's simply.

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And from my vantage point was the reason

it hasn't were two structural reasons

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'cause all of the same arguments you'd

make for why you did, you know, why

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advisors migrated on the financial

services side on the portfolio

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side, you know, lower cost products.

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Aligns with clients' interests, you

know, and is ultimately a better

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revenue model for both the advisor

and the firm while their clients

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are getting a better service model.

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You, you can say the same

thing, like into an annuities.

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That hasn't happened because

one, the products didn't exist.

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They were all commissioned products, so

we knew in going to market we needed to

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help drive creation of product, of which

we've done, you know, a tremendous amount.

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You know, there's well over

a hundred products in market

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now that are commission free.

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And then secondly, it has to work

within the advisor's systems, right?

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So, you know, it can't be the standalone

held away product that just, you know,

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you get an account balance on maybe.

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And so we also build technology that

integrates into the advisor's desktop.

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So we try to remove those barriers and

bring, you know, bring down the structural

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issues that prevent advisors from.

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You know, from migrating and starting

to use, you know, annuities on a

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commission free basis, just the

way they do, you know, other assets

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that they're using for clients.

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Ryan: That's great David so you mentioned

it a couple times the zero commission

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annuities they're relatively new this

space you can talk maybe exactly when

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they really became available And like

you said the wealth management space

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has evolved a lot from the commission

based brokers to now fee based And it's

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interesting it took so long for the

insurance products to follow suit but can

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you provide a little bit more information

about the zero commission annuities what

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they are exactly and how do they work

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David Lau: Yeah, so basically they've

been around for a while, right?

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So maybe 20 years.

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I mean, we, at Jefferson National where

I was before we launched our first, you

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know, commission free product in 1995.

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Or I'm sorry, 2005.

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I'm, I'm, I'm getting old.

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I'm getting my, my banking and,

and insurance stays mixed up.

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2005, it was about 20 years

ago, but what was in the market

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were very limited products.

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There were only a few carriers who had

products and they were really limited to.

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Very basic products, investment only

variable annuity products, not all

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the insurance guarantees and the

guaranteed income and the protections

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that most annuities are known for.

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So it was really a limited product

set up until about a decade ago.

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And then that's when,

you know, I launched DPL.

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We started, you know, first

working with carriers to build

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products in a way that was priced.

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Correctly and could be supported

correctly in a fee-based model.

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And, and since then, like I said,

well over a hundred products,

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you know, have come into market.

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And now people who just knew the old

model of like Jefferson National,

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where it was simply, you know,

stripped down basic low cost product.

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We basically have the same thing available

with all the different product types.

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You know, variable annuities with income

riders, fixed indexed annuities, SPIs

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dias, registered index, linked annuities,

all the great, you know, insurance lingo.

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We've got all the different product

categories and, and it's, it's, I

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mean, to me it's really important.

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It is been an important mission to help

drive this because like, like you said,

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you used to use annuities, you know, quite

a lot in practice 'cause people love them.

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David Lau Founder DPL Financial Partners:

Right, because the people love

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the benefits of them, you know, of

the guaranteed income, the peace

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of mind that comes with that.

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You know, the ability to spend

more in retirement because you feel

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comfortable, you know, knowing you're

gonna have a lifetime of income.

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They're really important products, but

they've become divisive and I think, you

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know, largely because of the commission.

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And so this now removes.

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Any barriers and any of the

controversy from annuities.

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Now they're just low cost

tools available for use.

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They're great product structures, you

know, that can be used by any advisor.

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David Lau: Whether you still want to

use a commission model or you want to

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be a, a fee-based or fee only advisor,

you can use, you know, annuity products

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in a way that fits within your practice.

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Ryan: That's fantastic David and great

explanation there of them Like you I'm

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all about democratization of investing

and that really sounds Owns like what zero

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commission annuities really do too They

up the door to many other investors out

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there or financial advisors who like you

said might have shied away from annuities

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before but now it's you know what This is

a good product that can help at the end of

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the day help our clients which is the most

important part of the job is helping the

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client achieve their financial objectives

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David Lau: That, that, that's right.

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I mean, one of my, you know, friends

in the industry, Michael Finka,

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who's a professor, you know, of

retirement income, and he's like.

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We've proven already beyond a

doubt that annuities are valuable

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in reti, in for retirement income.

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The, the, the efficacy of, of income

that they can, you know, generate the

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psychological and economic benefits that

they generate is proven beyond question.

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You know, it's now.

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For advisors who've never been able

to use them, who've shunned them

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before because of the commission,

now you've got this great tool.

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Again, like an annuity is a great

structure that can bring, again,

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another tool for you to use

for the benefit of your client.

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That really can't be

delivered through investments.

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You know, it's effectively, you

know, a product with a structure

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that provides unlimited tax deferral.

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You know, there's no,

no contribution limits.

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It's a tax deferred product that can

generate lifetime income while providing

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some downside protection you know,

really great aspects to you know,

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deliver into a portfolio or a plan.

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And now you can do it in a

low cost way that works with

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within your business model.

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Ryan: I did some research about a year

ago now about annuities and the impact

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they have I talking about the retirement

crisis in America and people just not

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saving enough Can annuities really help

bridge that gap and fill a gap Because

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like I said pensions aren't available

anywhere who knows about social security

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and they really can And the research

that I've conducted that annuities

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can fill that role and do it One I've

never even touched the psychology of

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it Like that mindset of the owner I'm

getting a check every month to help me

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David Lau: Right.

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Ryan: Stabilize my retirement

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David Lau: And, and it's been

interesting, you know, one, both like

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the academic research will tell you

that there's been tremendous amounts

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of academic research around annuities.

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Both the, you know, the economic

aspects and the behavioral,

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you know, aspects for clients.

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And it's been interesting as we've been

basically engaging a lot of advisors.

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You know, we work with thousands of

advisors across the country, you know.

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Many of them using annuities

for the first time.

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And when we survey them and talk to

them about what's your experience

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and what's your client's experience,

and, and what they feed back to us is

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basically like the market, like the

research you'd read from a professor.

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You know, one behaviorally it's really

helpful because you have these clients

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who've been getting a paycheck as

you're referring to Ryan, they're,

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you're used to getting a paycheck,

now you go into retirement and you're

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no longer getting that paycheck.

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Well, that's, you know, that's.

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Challenging.

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You have to get used to that.

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But with an annuity, now

you're gonna get that paycheck.

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So you're, you're starting to,

you know, replicate some of your,

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you know, what you've been used

to, you know, in your lifetime.

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'cause, you know, retirement's

big changes like there's a

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lot of changes in your life.

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That you have to deal with having,

you know, that financial aspect,

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starting to feel like familiar.

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You know, I know how to spend my

paycheck, I know how to budget from

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my paycheck and having an annuity

replace that is a great thing.

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And like I was referring to also.

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Advisors refer back.

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My clients don't call me as much

when the, when the market's volatile.

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You know, my clients, I don't have to,

you know, work as hard to convince them

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to spend money in retirement and, and

that's generally the bigger problem.

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Right?

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Advisors will tell you, I have more

problems getting my clients to spend

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and live as they're capable of.

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Then.

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You know, reigning some of

them back from overspending.

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Like those you don't have at nearly

as many, you know, clients who

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are, you know, outspending, you

know, their, their, their income or

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outspending their assets as you do.

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The people who are just sitting on

their money too, too afraid to spend it.

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And annuities can help with both

of the, in both of those instances.

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Ryan: That's a good point and done a

lot of conver had a lot of conversations

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about people living longer than ever

probably even makes annuities more

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attractive right A lot of times you

buy annuities and you think I'm gonna

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annuitize it start getting payments But

what if worst case happens and in a year

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I pass away and I don't get the money

back Now that you're living to a hundred

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right If you annuitize that product at

say 60 you're getting a lot of value

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David Lau: Yeah.

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Yeah, and, and I'll clarify, you know, a

term there, you know, annuitization and,

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and many people think of annuitization

like the income aspect of an annuity

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only as annuitization, which rarely

happens, which, 'cause the, the technical

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annuitization is when you're turning

your assets over to the carrier, right?

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And now they're turning

that into an income stream.

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And, and that, that's like a

single premium immediate annuity.

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That's about 4% of the market.

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You know, mostly people use and for good

reason, use income riders to generate

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income because you don't have to turn the

assets over to the CL over to the carrier.

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You're still gonna have that account

balance, so you don't have to worry

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about, again, behaviorally, you know,

for a client who doesn't like seeing.

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20% of their nest egg go, you

know, disappear and now it's

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gonna be turning into income.

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You can still see that account balance and

it's getting depleted, you know, as you're

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withdrawing and, and it's making payments.

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But you don't actually have to

annuitize in order to generate that

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income, which is a really, IM, IM

important you know, benefit and that.

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Again, the behavioral benefits that

that can provide are, are tremendous.

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And what most advisors don't realize

because they they dismiss annuities

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without actually researching

them, is that they're really

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efficient about generating income.

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So when, when you look at comparing your

fixed income portion of your portfolio

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and the amount of income you can generate

out of that relative to an annuity,

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and annuity is gonna blow it away.

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And it's going to give you that, you know,

lifetime benefit that you're referring to.

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Like, how do you plan for

a retirement of an unknown

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duration that could be 40 years?

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I mean, having at least some portion of

that income covered by a guarantee just

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makes planning so much easier, makes

life so much more easy for your client.

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It's just a really valuable

tool and, and it's a shame that

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they've become so controversial.

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Ryan: That's a very good point Yeah

you're exactly right about it Just

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being like you said at the beginning

polarizing Very good term for it

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Very polarizing client suitability

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David Lau: I'll make a quick joke on that.

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So like I know that they're polarizing,

so you know, if I'm meeting you and I'm.

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Interested in talking to you or

not interested in talking to you?

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I'm either gonna tell you I sell

annuities or I'm an entrepreneur.

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Like, so if, if they, if, if I'm

interested in, in, in having a

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conversation, I'm an entrepreneur

and if I, you know, want to

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get out of a conversation,

I'll tell you I sell annuities.

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Ryan: He that gets the phone

hang the phone up quick

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David Lau: That's right.

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Ryan: the door I love it That's

awesome client suitability is obviously

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very important regardless of the

investment product financial advisors

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are recommending to their clients But

for annuity suitability is probably

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even more important for The things

that we've already discussed are

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there certain investors where zero

commission annuities might be more

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suitable for I'm assuming everything

that you've said zero commission

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annuities really are suitable for all

people would be interested in annuities

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or maybe are there some investors

where maybe they're not suitable for

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David Lau: There.

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Well, I mean, it would just be, it

wouldn't be any different than a

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regular annuity, but you're just

dealing with a low cost annuity and,

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and part of the advantage, you know, I

I say a lot of times, and it's a bit.

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Provocative just to say it, but it,

it's largely true is commissions are

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the root of all evil in annuities.

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So all the things that, you know,

if you've never liked annuities, you

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know, when you remove the commission,

you probably remove those problems.

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So like, one being surrender.

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You know, so you know the lockup

period, you know, that, you know,

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that are typically in there.

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Well, that's there.

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So the carrier can recoup their

commission, they can raise the cost

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of the product and lock you in for

a period of time so they can recoup

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the commission out of the, you

know, out of the client's assets.

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If you have a commission free

product, you don't need to do that.

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So you don't have to have.

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Surrender periods.

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Now with fixed products, you might

want to have some incentive to have

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duration like you would with a CD

or a bond or anything like that.

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So mu you know, there could be, you

know, an early withdrawal penalty, you

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know, or the equivalent, or What we

like to see is market value adjustments.

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Meaning they perform like

bo they act like bonds.

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If you bought it in a high interest

rate environment and are wanting to

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surrender it in a low interest rate

environment, that shouldn't be a penalty.

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The carrier should be quite happy to,

to give you the money back so it winds

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up, you know, working like a bond.

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You get a market value adjustment.

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So the.

320

So the products become suitable for

more people because they're basically

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liquid, you know, above 59 and a half.

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'cause they're a retirement product.

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But you wind up, you know, with, with

products that are, you know, more

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liquid, they're lower cost you know,

so you don't have to worry about tying

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up too, you know, you know, too big

a percentage of your client assets.

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You can always move, you know, move money

out of, you know, out of the product.

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You know, generally without issue.

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Ryan: Really glad you brought up that

lockup period cause that was another

329

thing that was always a hurdle I would

say with maybe annuity So it's really

330

interesting that you said commission

reduces or eliminates the lockup period

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which is another reason that Zero

commission annuities would be very

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attractive to a lot of clients It's

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David Lau: Yes.

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And, and, and we try to, along with

that, you know, commissions also drive

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complexity, you know, because how

do you differentiate as a carrier?

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How do you differentiate your product

in a way, you know, in a way that

337

you know somebody can sell it.

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So you create.

339

You know, complexity to create

sales features that, you know, make,

340

make you know a good sales story.

341

Here's how you sell this product.

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We got this cool feature that

locks in high gains on the

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third Thursday of the month.

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You know what?

345

Whatever it is, and.

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We shy away from those products and we,

as we work with carriers, we say we want

347

products that can be used and not sold.

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So I, I want simple products to leverage

the benefits of the annuity structure,

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which are low cost tax deferral, you know,

lifetime income and downside protection.

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Like, give us simple products that

can do those so that advisors who are

351

using them in portfolios and plans, you

know, can simply use them and, and you

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know, understand them and, and deploy

them for that particular purpose.

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They don't care about

the bells and whistles.

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They care about, you know, okay,

I've got a conservative client.

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How do I get them?

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A little market exposure?

357

Well, maybe a registered index link

annuity where you can have some

358

downside protection and, and, you

know, be invested in an index you

359

know, would work for that client.

360

Those, those products are, are booming

in popularity generally because they're,

361

you know, they address such a need, you

know, for, you know, clients who worry

362

about risk and worry about losing money.

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Ryan: Yeah very good point What are some

primary considerations I think you've

364

said a lot of them already during this

conversation but what are some other

365

maybe primary considerations advisors

must make when recommending zero

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commission annuities to their clients

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David Lau: I mean, I think there, it,

it's really depending on the client

368

and their need and there, there are so

many different annuities and, and you

369

know, built for different purposes.

370

So, but what you see, you know, a lot

of the big use cases, obviously the

371

lifetime income which, which is great,

the downside protection, particularly

372

just before and after retirement.

373

You know, or for those, you know,

conservative clients who, you know,

374

get nervous about being in the market,

you know, providing products with

375

downside protection, it's useful

to protect against sequence risk,

376

you know, in those early retirement

years or just before retirement.

377

And also tax deferral.

378

You know, just a low cost tax deferred

product, you know, for your high

379

income earners who quickly max out

their 401k, their IRA, you know, that

380

annuity can be a really great place

to put tax and efficient investments

381

and expand, you know, the, the bucket.

382

You know, of, of tax

deferral for a client.

383

So, you know, that's, you know, the way

we start thinking about, you know, how

384

you wanna start, you know, looking at

annuities and, and using them proactively.

385

And then the other big usage

we see is enrolling over.

386

Old commissioned annuities.

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'cause when you take the

commission out, you're taking 80%

388

of the cost out of the product.

389

So if your client owns an old annu,

you know, old annuity, whether you

390

sold it to them and you know, before

you know these products existed or

391

somebody else that sold it to them.

392

And it's a way of bringing assets

under your management, you know,

393

looking, doing a comparison of that old

annuity to commission free products.

394

And we have a tool that.

395

Literally you take a photo of the

statement and you can get a comparison.

396

So we make it super simple,

but those, that's another,

397

you know, big use case we see.

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Ryan: We will have you back on

David for that one For that one

399

David Lau: Yes.

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Ryan: So let so far this conversation's

been fantastic talking about really the

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benefits annuities and zero commission

annuities can bring to the end investor

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to the financial advisors clients Let's

talk a little bit about what's in it

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for the Financial Advisor Advisory

Practice How can zero commission or

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commission free annuities help transform

Of financial advisory practice and maybe

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it helps distinguish that practice from

their competitors It's very competitive

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space How can it help the practice

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David Lau: Yeah, there's, there's a

few ways, and that's a great question.

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So, you know, number one, we see a

number of firms we work with use them

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proactively with new prospects because

there, there aren't very, there aren't

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very many ways that you, you can.

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Point out tangible differentiation.

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So you know, if you, you're talking to

a new prospect, a new client, you know,

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a lot of times advisors would be really

not want to ask them if they owned an

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annuity because that might be a lot of

work to try to figure out what they own.

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But here with our tool, you can

say, if you have an annuity,

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we'd love to do a comparison.

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We can bring low cost and save you a lot

of money, and then we can demonstrate.

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You know, and so for the advisor,

now you've shown immediately to

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a prospect that you're, you're

delivering tangible value.

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That that's one way and, and the

other big way, which we see, you know,

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helps, you know, the general trend

of moving to an advisory business.

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You know, allowing advisor advisors and

firms, you know, to become, you know, to

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go to a complete advice model rather than.

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Have to be, you know,

an advice model mainly.

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And then in kind of a broker, you know,

sales model for insurance or annuities.

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And it, it allows that that

firm to, you know, consolidate

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everything to the advice model.

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And so the way we can do

that is one we've got.

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Obviously the products and tools to

support that business going forward.

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But we can also take a look at your,

your old business and migrate that into,

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you know, commission free products.

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And when you're doing that, you're

getting the client a better product.

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You're, you're increasing the

revenue on those products.

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You might not be getting a trail at all.

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You might be getting a small trail.

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We can turn that into a hundred

basis point a or whatever your,

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your, you know, your fee is.

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And then you're probably gonna

get a better multiple if you're,

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you know, a firm thinking about.

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You know, multiples and selling your

practice or the valuation of your

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practice, you're going to get a much

better multiple now on that, you know,

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fee-based revenue generated from those

assets rather than the commission trail.

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Ryan: David that is perfect segue into

the next topic I'm gonna talk about

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one of the topics in wealth management

I have conversations all the time is

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about independence Financial advisors

breaking away of the problems with or

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not even a problem but annuities can

make that conversion from that breaking

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away from a captive advisor from broker

dealer to independence annuities can make

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that difficult Correct The big book of

annuities can make that breaking away a

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challenge Does that challenge still exist

or what you were just talking about going

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from a brokerage based system to advice

based system Your platform assists with

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that Does that challenge still exist

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David Lau: It, it definitely

still exists, right?

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So we can help with that

challenge, you know, for sure.

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But it still exists in a

couple of different ways.

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So one, if you're a practice and you're

thinking about going independent,

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you know, many of those acquirers,

aggregators, whatever their, you know,

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business model might be, you know, if you

have a significant number of annuities,

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you won't be appealing to them, right?

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So you're already starting to limit.

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You know, the, you know, the set of

firms who might be interested in you.

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Secondly, as I was just talking

about, they're going to value

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those annuities differently

than the rest of your business.

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So, you know, while the rest of

your business, they might look at

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it and say, Hey, you're, you're a,

you know, organically growing firm.

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You know, you've got.

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Tremendous number of

assets under management.

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We're gonna value that revenue at 12 x.

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Or, and when we looked at your commission

revenue from your commission annuity

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book, we're gonna value that at two,

maybe three x you know, multiple.

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And so you're seeing a, a huge discrepancy

between the, the valuation of the

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commission and, you know, the commission,

a commission trail, and a fee based.

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You know, revenue, so we can help.

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As I was explaining, we

can help change that.

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But that's one of the challenges you have.

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And, and the other is simply like,

again, so what, what happens?

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A lot of firms will just leave

those assets behind even 'cause

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they're, they're not getting valued.

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They, you know, maybe they haven't

sold annuities in a, in a while.

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And they're willing to forego

the, you know, whatever.

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Trail they might still be getting, so you

see them having to leave annuities behind

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in order to make that independence move.

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Or they're getting a, you

know, a much lower value on

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them than, than they could be.

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Which, you know, both presents challenges

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Ryan: And very interesting insight

there Especially just foregoing and

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leaving some assets behind Just to

go in depend I know independence

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can be attractive for some but

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David Lau: and.

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Ryan: interesting

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David Lau: And that happens all the time.

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I mean, we work with

advisors all the time.

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We say like, I went independent three

years ago and I left, you know, all

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these, you know, contracts behind,

you know, at my old broker dealer.

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We're like, okay, we can go get 'em.

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So you know, we can work with the advisor

to help, you know, now bring those

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accounts back under their management.

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But, you know, if they wanted to

truly go independent and truly go fee

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only, it's like they had no options.

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What, what do you do?

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What do you do with that?

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Those annuities, you need to, if

you wanted to take 'em with you,

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you needed to maintain a broker

dealer relationship of some sort.

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So, you know, with us, you can

totally drop your FINRA license.

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You don't have to leave

the, those assets behind.

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We can, you know, continue.

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You don't have to have that

broker dealer affiliation.

507

You know, we can truly help you

be independent and be fee only.

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Ryan: David so Perfect And you just

a My next question here is so there

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is that challenge it still exists How

can advisors get past that challenge

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you just mentioned work with you guys

can help them and that process is

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it are tips you can provide advisors

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David Lau: I think, you know, if you were,

if, if you were contemplating, you know,

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going independent, you know, prepare for

it, you know, so just like you would, you

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know, getting your house ready to sell.

515

Right.

516

You know, prepare your business to be

ready, you know, to be ready to be sold.

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And if you've got, you know, a lot of

old annuity assets, we can help migrate

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them and that doesn't happen over.

519

So we've got a lot of tremendous

technology and we've got teams who are

520

dedicated to help those transitions,

but, you know, plan for it and, and

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get out and get out ahead of it.

522

And then, you know, for those,

you know, acquirers, you know,

523

we work with lots of them.

524

You know, we can, if you're looking

at a firm we can help value that book.

525

So if we can get the data from that,

you know, from a potential acquisitions

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book of business, we can tell you.

527

You know, how much of it can be

transitioned, you know, to, you

528

know, to fee-based product, what

percentage, you know, makes sense

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for the client to move over.

530

So we can give you kind of a

sense for valuation of that.

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Ryan: Interesting it And it's funny you

brought that up and I should have known

532

you were gonna bring up about planning

because all the conversations I've had

533

about m and a you're going independent

The number one theme is prepare whether

534

you're preparing on the investment

management side financial planning and

535

now on the insurance annuity side is just

planned Get ahead of it just like you said

536

David Lau: Yeah, you wanna plan

and be purposeful about it.

537

You know, if you just.

538

Decide, Hey, we, you know, we, we

want to test the market and see

539

what, you know, see what's going

on, see what kind of offers we get.

540

You're gonna get offers that

are gonna reflect that, right?

541

I mean, you, you probably want to, you

know, work with, you know, a firm, whether

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it's in, you know, a, a banker that you

know, specializes in, in this market, or

543

any number of that transition firms that

are out there who can kind of give you

544

coaching and guidance as to how you want,

you know, want to think about the process

545

and the things you want to do to prepare.

546

You know, you should be

very purposeful about it.

547

It's a, it, it's probably a one-time

decision and it's a big one.

548

So, so, you know, be, be prepared.

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Ryan: Wow David fantastic conversation

Really good I hope all those people when

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I opened up saying that it was about

annuities They stood on because they

551

definitely got some value from it I know

I did Really interesting conversation

552

and I think that innovations here

it's gonna keep more people interested

553

in keep that door open to have that

conversation At least it should It should

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David Lau: Yes.

555

I mean, again, we think

we remove the conflicts.

556

You remove that commission, you

remove lots of the conflicts.

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Now you've just got a, a low cost,

valuable product structure that

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can be used in many different

ways to benefit clients.

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Ryan: Great Thank you so much David for

coming on the show Really an honor to have

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you on Fun conversation A lot of great

insight Where can our audience get more

561

information about DPL Financial partners

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David Lau: Just go to our website,

D-P-L-F-P as, as in DPL Financial Partners

563

and you'll, you'll be able to, you know,

get in contact with us through the website

564

register with the website, you know,

connect with one of our consultants.

565

We've got a team of, you know, more

than 40 consultants who really work

566

with advisors, you know, both on, on

the business and product issues of

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integrating commission free insurance.

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Ryan: Fantastic David Thank you everyone

for listening to this episode of zephyr's

569

Just for Risk podcast You can watch

all of our Other episodes on the Zephyr

570

YouTube channel and on Spotify Please

be sure to like and subscribe to those

571

channels and give us a follow on the

Zephyr LinkedIn page Thank you very

572

much and have a great rest of your week