Learning to Thrive Beyond Pornography use was the greatest challenge of our life and marriage. It had rocked my self confidence, tainted all of the most important experiences of my life and become the most impossible challenge I had.

With this podcast or at https://www.zachspafford.com you'll learn about the struggle, how to overcome pornography use, and where to find additional resources to begin to thrive beyond pornography with your spouse.

At some point I took a step away from all the 12 step meetings and councilors and started to figure out my own brain, to look at my issue as something that I had the answer to and I was going to figure it out. Here I share those lessons and give you the power to start your own journey free. Whether you struggle with unwanted pornography use or are the spouse or partner, whether you feel stuck or just don't know where to start, here I will teach you principles, tools and skills that you can use today to change how you think and, in the end, what you do.

You'll hear interviews with my spouse, with experts on human sexuality and with former and current pornography users on how you can overcome your own struggle with addictive behavior.

The Thrive Beyond Pornography podcast will bring new perspective to your struggle and keep you coming back to improve all aspects of your life. (formerly, The Self Mastery Podcast: Overcome Pornography Forever)

Episode 227

===

Zach Spafford: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to thrive beyond pornography. I'm your host, Zach Spafford. And I'm Darcy. Hey, we just spent the last few minutes doing an exercise called hugging till relaxed. It's fun. we're going to talk about that on our next podcast, though. But before we get into this week's podcast, I want to remind you that if you want to get coaching, And you have been hitherto unable to afford it.

Zach Spafford: This week on the podcast we're going to dive into the concept of renewal and marriage. And exploring why it's essential to renew your marriage and how this will actually help you breathe life into your relationship.

Darcy Spafford: So what exactly do we mean by renewal and marriage? So at its core, renewal is about revitalizing, refreshing and rejuvenating your connection with your partner. It's the things

Zach Spafford: I love.

Darcy Spafford: All things I love, it sounds like.

Darcy Spafford: I don't know. Like a podcast episode. All things I love.

Zach Spafford: Yeah. A name of a pot. The name of the, the name of our new podcast is going to be all things I love.

Zach Spafford: All right.

Darcy Spafford: So back,

Zach Spafford: it's not going to be about porn though.

Darcy Spafford: It's it's the intentional act of looking at your marriage with fresh eyes and a renewed sense of commitment. And the reason why we were wanting to talk about it. Today was that just the beginning of the year? And it's a good new, fresh start.

Zach Spafford: I think marriage is one of those awesome journeys that we get to choose to go on. There are highs or lows. There are natural routines and challenges that come into a marriage and all of that can really take a toll. We have a friend who's mom got married after her dad passed away and she's like, "oh, I want to be married only to my second husband forever because. My first husband, that was a difficult life." And it's interesting because a lot of us were in that first marriage or even our second marriage and we have kids and all of those natural responsibilities that take a toll on a relationship. I mean, this woman got married many years after her children had all grown up and gone out of the house and her second husband was a lot more wealthy.

Zach Spafford: So basically her second marriage is more fun because there's a lot less struggle in it. And if you're in that struggle, but you want more fun, this is what we're talking about. This is that natural opportunity. To renew and create a funner more exciting marriage. That's not just about fixing something that's broken, it's about nurturing and proactively caring for the relationship that you want. And relationships are dynamic.

Zach Spafford: They're living entities. They evolve over time. Esther Perel, and we talked about this, I think on the podcast before, as Parral says, you'll be married to two or three people in your lifetime and they all might be to the same person.

Darcy Spafford: And what you did in the beginning of your relationship that worked might not work now and might need adjustments.

Darcy Spafford: And so as you guys both grow and you evolve as a couple. You might have to renegotiate things and get a new action plan of how it is you want to move forward. Yeah,

Zach Spafford: and we were actually just, I just mentioned this to somebody the other day. Darcy and I were renegotiating our relationship the other day. And she was saying some things that she found were a difficulty.

Zach Spafford: And we were just trying to walk through that path of what is it that we actually want? How do we put that together? And. Part of that process is not getting your feelings hurt.

Zach Spafford: In the beginning it kind of feels like she's coming at me and I'm like, okay, I just need to calm down. I need to understand what it is that she's actually saying and deal with that on its merits and be. Close to her in this process. And renewal is a powerful antidote to that stagnation.

Zach Spafford: That sense of, oh man, they don't like me. My partner doesn't like me because. And this is about breaking free from routines that might have become too familiar and that are keeping you from injecting a sense of excitement and curiosity back into your relationship.

Darcy Spafford: As individuals we evolve and so do our needs and our desires and our perspectives. Renewal involves acknowledging and embracing these changes within ourselves and our partner and having the ability to foster a deeper understanding of who we are and who it is that we are becoming and who it is that we want to become. One of the beautiful aspects of renewal is the opportunity. For new beginnings within your marriage, it's a chance to rewrite part of your story.

Darcy Spafford: It's a chance to set new goals and create a shared experience that contributes to the narrative of your relationship.

Zach Spafford: One of the ways that we create renewal and growth beyond the trials and challenges of life, like. Our struggle with pornography is that we imagine our marriage. And then we envision our marriage as if it's a garden.

Zach Spafford: It's a sacred refuge. It's ours. It's a place where we come to be together in that sacred. That sense, that requires nurturing attention and it requires cultivation. The issues that we deal with, like unwanted pornography. It can often be thought of as invasive weeds that threatened the vibrancy of the garden. So let's talk about how this metaphor unfolds for us and how you can put this into play over the course of this next year, so that your relationship is renewed and more awesome .

Darcy Spafford: So we're going to go over seven different key points that we're going to talk about. And the first one that we're going to talk about is identifying weeds, acknowledging the challenge.

Darcy Spafford: In the garden of marriage, just go with us. Right. This sounds kind of weird, but in the garden of marriage, The unwanted pornography that's in our lives. Is kind of representative of invasive weeds for some of you, your garden might be a beautiful thriving garden with just a few weeds here and there. For others of you, your garden might be full of weeds that you can't seem to get caught up on they're everywhere.

Darcy Spafford: And maybe even just going out to the garden. And looking out, those weeds feels overwhelming. And you can't even start the process of dealing with the weeds. So maybe you just pretend it's not there. Right. I know for some wives that I've met with, they just kind of want to pretend that it's not there. And just stay out of the garden, right. We don't look at the weeds and we don't know they're there and we don't have to pull them.

Darcy Spafford: If we look too closely at the weeds, we might start having some very unkind, inner dialogue that goes on. The goal here is to acknowledge the presence of these weeds without judging ourselves. Recognizing that they are there and that they do hinder the growth and beauty of our shared space.

Darcy Spafford: Sometimes we see couples that stop nurturing. And stop watering their plants in their garden because they are so focused on the weeds. Overcoming unwanted pornography has to be a healthy balance between watering the life producing plants in your garden, whether that's flowers for cut flowers on a vase, or if it's a vegetable garden. We have to also take care of the plans and address the weeds because we leave the weeds there. They can oftentimes choke out the plants growing. But if all we do is focus on the weeds, then. The beautifulness of what is to grow in that garden is not going to be able to grow.

Zach Spafford: Yeah. I think if you look at your garden and all you see is weeds, why would you want to go out and garden?

Zach Spafford: So here's some questions that you can ask yourself. What specific challenges or behaviors related to unwanted pornography are affecting your relationship. Another question that you might ask is how do we individually feel about addressing this particular issue together? So whatever that issue is, If there is a, an issue that you want to address, maybe it's pornography. Darcy was reading a thread about a husband who's constantly on his phone. These kinds of issues. You might want to ask, how do I feel about addressing this issue with my spouse?

Zach Spafford: Do I feel like I'm trapped too? I feel like I'm stuck. Do I feel like I'm lost? Do I feel like it's overwhelming? Do I feel like he just doesn't love me? Because of course he, if he loved me more. He would not stare at his phone quite so much. And just addressing that sense of what is going on in there in the garden is going to be helpful to get your feet under you.

Zach Spafford: Another question you might want to ask is, are there any underlying emotions or concerns that need to be acknowledged? What do I need to acknowledge for myself? What might I want to acknowledge for my spouse and allow those underlying emotions or concerns to be out in the open. Without feeling like it has to be all perfect. And, you know, we never address anything of meaning.

Darcy Spafford: All right.

Darcy Spafford: So that's the first one. The second one is cultivating the soil. Anyone that is a gardener knows that you have to take really good care of your soil and you have to, you know, what ad nitrates and all the good stuff to your soil.

Zach Spafford: We are not gardeners. Yes. We have a friend. Who's a gardener. She's fantastic editor houses like this little Oasis here in St. George, where it's so warm in there. Their backyard is like 10 degrees cooler in the summer than anywhere else. They're really good gardeners. We, on the other hand, don't have even grass.

Darcy Spafford: So understanding the soil of your relationship. This is the emotional and essentially the foundation for what it is that you are trying to grow.

Darcy Spafford: The goal here is to dig into the roots of the issues and explore the emotional and relational landscape that allows these weeds to thrive. By cultivating the soil, you can lay the groundwork for renewal, examine their relational dynamics that contribute to the issue.

Darcy Spafford: And then you can begin to understand the patterns of communication, trust, and intimacy that may be affected. And some of the things that you can think about is what emotional and relational factors contribute to the presence of unwanted pornography in your marriage? How can you actively listen and validate each other's feelings without. Assigning blame.

Darcy Spafford: And this is a really, really hard one to do. I know for me, it was really hard because I really wanted to place all the blame on Zach. When he was looking at porn, it was so much easier for me to be like, this is your fault, I'm good, right?

Zach Spafford: It was my fault, but it wasn't, but it was also, but if

Darcy Spafford: we look at, you know, essentially the soil, yeah.

Darcy Spafford: There was definitely things in the soil that I could have done better that I could take. Take responsibility for and cultivate. A beautiful

Zach Spafford: landscape. And I think that's a really difficult concept, especially when the culture behind it is so much, "once he fixed the once he fixes this, or this is his problem and he needs to fix it. And once he fixes it, Then we can get back to our relationship." And we're going to talk about that here in a little bit as well, but the reality here is that the more willing we are to look at the soil, to look at what is contributing to the overall health of our garden. Then we're more likely to be able to address that in a meaningful way.

Darcy Spafford: Yeah. Yeah. Another thing you can think about is how has this issue impacted our communication and our connection. And are there past experiences or unmet needs that may be influencing this challenge?

Zach Spafford: A couple of things there. One of them is, being willing to have a conversation about unwanted pornography is really tough when the environment of that conversation is one of blame. And responsibility shifting and placing the importance of my needs over your needs. The more that you can be aware of all of the impacts in all of the things that you are saying in those conversations, That do impact this connection that do impact the soil. The more likely it is again, that you're going to be able to deal with them in a direct and meaningful way.

Darcy Spafford: Number three is planting the seeds of change and nurturing growth. Just as a gardener plant seeds for a beautiful harvest, actively working on planting seeds of positive change in your relationship. Is a key component of growing your garden. And this involves open and honest communication.

Darcy Spafford: You can, you know, discuss boundaries, you can discuss expectations and the impact of pornography in your marriage and nurturing these seeds will begin to foster growth and pave the way for renewal.

Darcy Spafford: These are all really complicated, difficult things, because I know for me, oftentimes, boundaries was more about controlling Zach's behavior than about what I was going to do, or my expectations of what was going to happen were not necessarily what Zach's expectations. We're going to happen.

Darcy Spafford: And Zach had expectations that weren't very well communicated to me and weren't necessarily agreed upon. And so oftentimes we have expectations that we create on our own and expect everyone else to follow. Even if they haven't agreed to that.

Zach Spafford: They may not even have an idea of what it is that you expect. And I think that that is certainly something that we struggled with is just understanding what it was that each of us expected and being willing to communicate those expectations. Even when there was a breach on one of those issues and not making it into this big, huge deal, but really just being willing to say, okay, I see where you are.

Zach Spafford: I understand what's going on for you. This is what I expect. And I want to verify this understanding with you.

Darcy Spafford: I'm just, I'm thinking back to when you struggle with pornography and around the idea of expectation. And I think for yourself, you had the expectation that you wouldn't look at porn, right? But you lack the skills and the follow through...

Zach Spafford: yes

Darcy Spafford: ...to accomplish that. So there was that disconnect between what it was that you actually wanted and, and expected of yourself and in the results that you were creating for yourself.

Zach Spafford: Yeah, absolutely.

Darcy Spafford: Some of the things you can think about are like what specific changes or boundaries can we agree upon? To address this issue. And how can we create a safe space for open communication about our feelings and our needs. And Zach kind of touched on that earlier. But this is a really, I think key component of being able to have healthy dialogue around pornography is creating a space that feels safe for both people to communicate where both people can share what's on their mind, what's causing them pain. What's causing them. Nice struggles. And, and being able to stay in that place, even if it's uncomfortable, even if it sucks. And while also working on keeping regulated.

Zach Spafford: Yeah. I think that too often, when we say safe space, what we are saying is I don't want to ever have any bad feelings. And that's not what you're saying. What you're saying is. When you're creating a safe space for open communication about your feelings and needs. What you're creating is a position and a place where each of you are willing to stand in, address your own feelings needs desires, discomforts...

Darcy Spafford: Anxieties.

Zach Spafford: ...anxieties, and still be willing to address them openly with your spouse rather than my spouse has to make me feel safe.

Zach Spafford: It's, I have to make me feel capable so that this is a safe space and each of us can address what's going on for. For ourselves and for the relationship within this space. It's a slightly different than I think anybody is used to hearing it now, this safe space is not about making it easy and comfortable for everybody.

Zach Spafford: This safe space is about making it so that each of you is willing to sit through.

Zach Spafford: Yeah.

Darcy Spafford: Sit through the discomfort of hearing. What's true for your partner. Yeah, exactly. Then, if it invalidates you, even if it's hard to hear.

Zach Spafford: Right. And then I think the next question is that you will want to ask yourself, is, are there resources or support systems that we can tap into for guidance and encouragement along the process of. Planting and nurturing these seeds.

Zach Spafford: If you want help as a couple, and you want to go through this process, Darcy and I have set up a new couples coaching program for couples that lasts an entire year. And it's very effective in helping a couple move from, we don't know what to do to here's the, here's the tool that we need to play put into play today and make that tool effective in our lives.

Zach Spafford: And you can go to thrivebeyondpornography.com/workwiththrive. And sign up for free breakthrough session to have that conversation with us.

Darcy Spafford: We're we're finding how rewarding and how much easier it is for couples to really grow beyond pornography together when they're working together.

Zach Spafford: Yeah. Oh, my gosh it's night and day. When I work with an individual, it's all about this skillset that, that we're doing. But when we work with a couple it's, there's so much more movement and it's so much more effective because each partner is able to help the other, see things that they couldn't see before.

Darcy Spafford: And really just help their self.

Darcy Spafford: So the fourth one is watering. And sunlight. And we're going to acknowledge that is this to building intimacy and connection. So water and sunlight are an essential part of a garden's health without water and sunlight. Your plants are going to shrivel up and die.

Zach Spafford: Oh, man, that sounds horrible.

Darcy Spafford: That's true though. I mean, let's be honest.

Darcy Spafford: Focusing on rebuilding intimacy and connection is a powerful tool to really create a thriving garden. And it's like what I was saying above it's when you all only focused on the weeds on, you're not nurturing your plants, they're not going to survive.

Darcy Spafford: Water, your relationship with open communication, vulnerability, and emotional support. And allowing that sunlight of understanding and empathy to shine on the challenges you face.

Darcy Spafford: When I think about water and sunlight and ways that I can bring that to my garden some of the things that I would think about is, and what ways can I actively nurture my emotional connection and intimacy with my spouse? What communication patterns contribute positively to our relationship and how can I strengthen them? Yeah. And another one is, are there shared activities or things that we like to do together that bring joy and closeness to our relationship?

Zach Spafford: And one of the things that we're going to talk about next week is that hugging till relaxed exercise that we were practicing just before we started this podcast. And that's one of the rituals, one of the things that you can do to nurture, nurture your emotional connection and intimacy. And when we're talking about connection and intimacy, we're not talking about just sex.

Zach Spafford: We're talking about being open, being known and being vulnerable with your partner.

Darcy Spafford: Okay. Number five is blossoming flowers or. Celebrate. Progress or producing the vegetables.

Darcy Spafford: As the garden of your relationship flourishes, and you've got blooming blossoms that you can cut to put in your vase. Or you've got vegetables that you can harvest and eat. This represents the positive changes that you've nurtured. All right.

Darcy Spafford: So when you take care of your garden, And you also work on your weeds. Then you can start to really, reap the benefits of your harvest. And sometimes we think, oh, well, if only my zucchinis were bigger, Nope. Nobody ever thinks that because the zucchini seemed to always grow. But if we are comparing. Zach's looking at me like I'm crazy right

Zach Spafford: now. I'm interested in this, uh, analogy, please continue.

Zach Spafford: And now my only if only my zucchinis were bigger, no, the zucchinis grow just fine.

Zach Spafford: Go on. I don't

Darcy Spafford: know. I don't. And in my experiences with gardening. You know, you always like miss picking your zucchini and time. And then they grow to be like the size of your leg. And then there was not that good, but.

Zach Spafford: That is not how I thought that was going to end.

Zach Spafford: I thought that this was a phallic analogy.

Darcy Spafford: No. It wasn't.

Zach Spafford: So let's, uh, maybe pumpkin's, let's talk about pumpkin's instead of zucchini.

Darcy Spafford: No, I was just okay.

Zach Spafford: But. I like it. It's fun.

Darcy Spafford: As the garden of your relationship flourishes, and you're blossoming flowers grow so you can cut them and make a beautiful bouquet and put them on your countertop or. Your vegetables grow. You can start to begin to celebrate your harvest and all of your hard work that you put into and the changes that you nurtured in your relationship, you can celebrate the progress made. In rebuilding trust, establishing healthier habits and fostering a renewed sense of intimacy.

Darcy Spafford: I think that if we relate this to a vegetable garden, You know, sometimes your harvest isn't quite as good as you wanted it to be, or maybe your neighbor's harvest did so much better than your harvest and you can compare and get jealous or hard on zucchinis hard on, um, So zucchinis hard on try again.

Darcy Spafford: Or you can be hard on yourself.

Darcy Spafford: Yeah, you can get, yup. You can get hard on you. Can't be hard. You can be hard on yourself if you're comparing your progress in your garden and your harvest to someone else's. Yeah. And so it's really important to really focus on your, your relationship and the changes and the progress that you've made. As a couple. And not compare yourself to where you might think others are.

Darcy Spafford: Because one of the things that, and this line of work. That we do is that we see all sorts of relationships. And even the ones that on the outside look absolutely perfect. The people that you would like sit next to at church and think, wow, they have a perfect life. And then. You know, the work that we do, we see as like, oh wow.

Darcy Spafford: Everybody struggles. Everybody has challenges and nobody's perfect. And maybe the more perfect that they're trying to look the more, not perfect they are.

Zach Spafford: Absolutely, that's a hundred percent true. And I think one of the things that you can do to start to see this is ask some questions. So, what are the positive changes that I'm noticing in our. My relationship. As we address these issues, as we're talking about these things, what am I noticing?

Zach Spafford: What is positive about what's going on? I think so often if you are a gardener, I think one of the most wonderful things is to go out and find a piece of fruit that you didn't or a vegetable that you didn't know was going to be there. Volunteer fruits, volunteer vegetables. Our friends down the street, they have. They garden every single year and every year they're like, oh yeah, this just grew by itself from a couple of years ago.

Zach Spafford: And it's just an awesome. Analogy to the way that you can start to just look for what are the small changes, what are the things that I'm noting that are positive in our relationship? You can also ask how can I celebrate these small victories and acknowledge the efforts that are being made, whether that's on my side of the street or on my spouse's side, because the more that we notice, those things, the more likely it is that they will continue.

Darcy Spafford: And then what new habits or communication strategies have proven to be effective in your relationship and working on rebuilding trust and intimacy.

Zach Spafford: Taking a look at that, seeing it and sit and talking about it out loud, I think is a great way to do it. The next one that we want to talk about is seasonal pruning. Which is analogous to embracing these growth cycles in a garden, periodic pruning is necessary for sustained growth.

Zach Spafford: There's a story that I once heard about a tree that someone was pruning and as he was pruning this tree, there was this kind of dialogue between him and the tree. And the tree was like, "no, look how big I've grown and how awesome I am and how much I have expanded from the last year." And the gardener is saying, "no, I'm the master of this vineyard. I'm the person who's in charge of this garden. I'm going to prune you how I see fit so that you'll grow the fruit that I want."

Zach Spafford: if we can similarly embrace the growth cycles in our relationship. Where we see those outgrowths that we don't like, and we're acknowledging those challenges as they arise. Each cycle, we're going to have this opportunity to renew for continued growth to create the marriage or the fruits that we want. And if you look at your marriage and you might want to ask yourself, in what ways do I approach challenges and opportunities as a matter of growth for our relationship, rather than. I hate this, this sucks. This shouldn't be in my relationship.

Darcy Spafford: A lot of our listeners can probably relate to this concept if I just, shift it to a slightly different perspective. So when you're at church and someone asked you to do something. We've all been there where we've been asked to do something at church, and we felt like while. Th this kind of puts me a little bit out of my comfort zone or I have zero interest in doing this.

Darcy Spafford: I don't want to do this, or even I feel completely inadequate to take on this responsibility. And in those situations what is it that we tell ourselves and that other people tell us, and often it's things like, " this is an opportunity for growth for you. If you do this, it will stretch you and it will challenge you and you will grow. You will receive blessings from God for your effort and for putting yourself out there and serving." All of those kinds of ideas. But how good are we at taking those same principles and applying them to the challenges? And our own marriages.

Zach Spafford: Nope, but nobody, nobody wants to look at their marriage and be like, oh yeah, we got this trial of where my husband looks at porn and I feel inadequate.

Zach Spafford: Nobody looks at it that way. And I think that's a really good analogy because nobody wants to look at it that way, because it feels so personally painful. And the reality that we're trying to help you see and I think that each of you can take on is that if you're willing to embrace that as an opportunity to grow together and make something awesome out of. What can seemingly be a destructive pattern in your relationship you're going to feel so much better. You're going to be so much better off as an individual and as a couple, because you're going to have a much more robust capacity in yourself to deal with difficulty.

Darcy Spafford: Absolutely.

Zach Spafford: So one of the things that you're going to want to ask yourself is, are there. Recurring patterns or triggers that I need to address through communicating differently with my spouse understanding my spouse differently. Or understanding myself differently or just acknowledging personally, what is it that's going on?

Zach Spafford: What are the recurring patterns and triggers that are going on that I need to address for me? Then another question that you might want to ask in this space is what lessons have we learned or have I learned from past difficulties that can help me guide myself and others through future challenges?

Zach Spafford: And this I think is a really difficult one for a lot of us who have struggled with porn. I can tell you so many men when I talk to them, they're like, "Oh, I have no idea what happened when I looked at porn last." The problem with that is that the reason you have no idea. What happened when you last looked at porn is that you're running as far and fast as you can, away from that scenario so that you can get back to a normal or to a status quo and you never learned the lessons.

Zach Spafford: So part of this embracing growth cycles is just creating greater awareness around those past difficulties so that you can say, "well, this is exactly what happened, and I can start to see why, and then I can start to address the why."

Darcy Spafford: Okay. So number seven is guardian against weeds and we're gonna. Equate this to preparing for challenges.

Zach Spafford: Because there are going to be weeds.

Zach Spafford: There's always going to be weeds. If you're married to a human in the world, there are going to be weeds. But you can guard against them to a degree.

Darcy Spafford: Yeah.

Darcy Spafford: So consider ongoing maintenance to guard against the return of weeds, develop strategies and rituals to prevent the. The weeds from coming back. Right.

Darcy Spafford: Keeping unwanted pornography from returning over and over again into your life. And this is an ongoing care that ensures that your garden. We'll remain thriving and. Begin to become a renewed space over and over again.

Zach Spafford: Yeah. And I think part of this is just simply being able to communicate about difficult things. As quickly and easily as possible within the relationship. And one of the things you're going to want to ask is what are the preventative measures that we can put in place you and me to guard against the recurrence of these unwanted challenges like pornography or feeling disconnected from my spouse...

Darcy Spafford: or financial issues. All of the things, right.

Zach Spafford: So being as careful about preventative measures as possible. Another thing you might want to ask is how can I maintain ongoing communication about our individual needs and concerns? We have on our calendar every Sunday, we have a little meeting that starts at about two o'clock and it says Zach and Darcy meet about money. And every week. If we choose to, we can sit down and communicate about how our budget's going. What's working for us. What's not working for us. And deal with any issues upfront instead of waiting until there's a struggle. Next, you might want to ask yourself, are there any specific rituals or check-ins that we can establish?

Zach Spafford: And I just kind of talked about one that we put together. To ensure that continued renewal and growth. Okay.

Darcy Spafford: And our goal with the work that we do. Is to get a couple soil and their foundation strong enough. That if a weed. Comes into their garden once a year. It doesn't kill all the beautiful flowers and vegetables that are growing.

Darcy Spafford: The more we can sit with the idea that we don't have to be perfect this second and that we can create a marriage that can weather the different challenges that we have. I think the better off you're going to be in the long run. Yeah. Because unfortunately we're all humans and every once in a while we suck.

Zach Spafford: Yeah, totally. And I think anybody who's a gardener really gets this idea that if you've ever. If you've got a yard, if you've ever tried to keep a plant alive, you get this idea that. No matter what it is that you're trying to do in that garden or in that yard or with that plant, there is always going to be something that comes up that you're not going to be prepared for, and that you're going to have to learn to deal with in the, in the moment. And this is an opportunity for us to all take a step back and recognize that being married is not a state of being it is a state of growth. And the more we can recognize that the more likely it is that we're going to be able to enjoy the marriages that we have. And enjoy our spouse.

Zach Spafford: Like. Like I like you.

Darcy Spafford: You like me?

Zach Spafford: Most most days

Darcy Spafford: sometimes. Sometimes you don't like. That's

Darcy Spafford: okay though.

Zach Spafford: That right there. That's actually really true. You guys are listening to that as you might be laughing. Sometimes I'm like legit Darcy. I'm frustrated with you. And I don't like what you're doing. And that reality, our capacity to acknowledge that and deal with that in the moment. Helps us not only choose closeness with each other, but grow and renegotiate to a relationship that we actually enjoy.

Darcy Spafford: Yeah.

Darcy Spafford: And here's just a quick example, which it's probably kind of random, but really, I think it applies here just the other day we were struggling and I was just venting and telling Zach all the things that I think he needs to do better. And then I realized, okay, I'm really just having a bad day.

Darcy Spafford: I'm just grumpy. I'm sorry. Just ignore me. Like I'm not really operating from. The right frame of mind right now, I'm just. I'm grumpy. And that actually gave, I think Zach, a space to be like, okay, Like she's just grumpy. Yeah. And even though he was probably thinking it like, wow, she's just grumpy.

Darcy Spafford: She must Be on our period or something. Even though...

Zach Spafford: Darcy doesn't have a uterus.

Darcy Spafford: Yeah. We don't know, we just go off on my moods. But, sorry, that's probably TMI. Yeah.

Zach Spafford: That's why they're here. They're here for TMI.

Darcy Spafford: Maybe we can take that out.

Darcy Spafford: But anyways, like me being able to knowledge, acknowledge and say, "Hey, I'm, I'm super dysregulated right now. I realize that. Okay, I'm going to like, just shut my mouth and we'll come back to this later."

Zach Spafford: Yeah. And, and being able to see that and acknowledge that was a really beautiful opportunity. I think for each of us to say, We still like each other. This one conversation doesn't need to be the end. And we can address the meaningful parts of it, because even in her grumpiness, I was looking at myself saying, "okay, What is true about what she's saying? What is there in that? Desire that she is bringing to me to change that is true. And I can address that."

Zach Spafford: And then it was nice to soften a little bit of that grumpiness with the fact that you acknowledged you're grumpy. And so I was like, okay, this really isn't as much about me. But I can still see the parts that I want to be different because she's addressing it. And that sometimes that grumpiness is the catalyst that allows us to see those things. So there's a lot in there.

Zach Spafford: There's a lot of just being aware, being willing to address it. And as you are thinking about your next year, we want you to think of these seven areas that can help you take better care of your garden.

Zach Spafford: 1. Identify the weeds, which means just acknowledge the challenges.

Zach Spafford: 2. Cultivate the soil, understanding what kind of soil do you have? What do you have in there? And can you adjust that?

Zach Spafford: 3. Plant seeds of change, nurture the growth, nurture the desire that your partner has to be a better human.

Zach Spafford: 4. Water and sunlight build that intimacy build connection. We're going to talk next week about hugging till relaxed.

Zach Spafford: That's a great place to do that.

Zach Spafford: 5. Blossoming flowers, you know, celebrate those successes. Celebrate the wins. Be willing to say, "Hey, we got 1% better. And that is enough for today."

Zach Spafford: 6. Seasonal pruning. Which is, I like to call that the renegotiation of relationships.

Zach Spafford: "Hey, I used to do all the dishes now. I think it's time for you to participate in that." That sort of conversation. Being willing to prune and adjust the relationship as needed. And then finally

Zach Spafford: 7. Preparing for challenges by guarding against the weeds, being willing to create meaningful ways that each of you is paying attention to what weeds might be coming up. And how you can guard against them.

Darcy Spafford: By visualizing your marriage as this beautiful garden. That also has weeds in it you can begin to actively see the ongoing process of renewal and your marriage and how it is that, you can begin to encourage a collaborative effort to cultivate a relationship that is resilient and vibrant and capable of weathering the challenges while also continuing to blossom and grow and move forward.

Darcy Spafford: Engaging in open and honest discussions can really contribute to a deeper understanding of the challenges. And the opportunities for growth within your marriage?

Zach Spafford: Yeah. All right.

Zach Spafford: My friends, hopefully, this has been helpful. Feel free to review us on iTunes. Feel free to share with a friend, feel free to sign up for group coaching group

Zach Spafford: coaching that starts on January

Zach Spafford: Bye bye.