Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer catch up on B5 news after the holidays. Meanwhile, Nightwatch terrorists kidnap Delenn, Garibaldi tries out ChatGPT with mixed results, and the B5 crew prepares for a major transition in Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 11: Ceremonies of Light and Dark.

Hey, listener, just wanted to give you a quick

content warning on this episode.

There is a domestic terrorist plot in this episode and we do have

scenes of a gunman in a crowd.

So that, if that's gonna be too much for, you know, that now just skip this one.

We'll see you next week.

Hello and welcome to Who Are You, A Babylon five watch cast hosted by

two former strangers now, friends who have gotten to know each other

and will continue to get to know each other while rewatching a

favorite show from their childhood.

Babylon five.

I'm Aire.

And I'm Laura

Hi Laura.

It's been almost a month for us.

it's been a long time since I saw your face

It has been 26 or 27 days or something like, it's been almost

been a month since we recorded last.

It's been a crazy month.

I fucked off to Europe for a while.

I'm back.

and a bunch of B five stuff has happened.

Not like necessarily all good news.

In fact, I'd say none of it is good news.

Yeah, you went away and things happened.

It's very strange.

nothing about the remake at this

Mm-hmm.

we got another.

No News is good news from j m s as of this recording.

Just have to trust the process, I guess.

but today, if you're listening to this episode, the day

it airs, H B o Max lost Babylon five.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

I don't know what anyone's gonna do.

. I hope that this doesn't prevent you from watching the show.

I did a little bit of quick research and I, I've been watching

it on Voodoo or HBO Max because I bought the HD remaster on Voodoo.

It's still available there for purchase.

It's still available in the Apple store.

YouTube movies and TV has it as well.

Um, You can buy individual seasons and stuff.

I bought the whole series for, I want to say like 50 bucks or

something on voodoo on a sale.

So I don't know if that's something that is gonna happen

before it goes off streaming.

Sometimes you'll, that will happen when stuff is about to come off.

It will go on sale on those digital stores, but me telling you this

now presumably doesn't help much

yeah.

Might not be helpful to the listener, but I think our plan is

we're gonna buy it on Apple tv.

Just that's where we've got some other series, so we were gonna do that.

But yeah, I was, I was shocked, shocked and appalled that H

B O Max was gonna give it up.

It's genuinely upsetting because the series, I feel like, has

kind of been enjoying a little bit of a pop culture renaissance between

the possible remake and it finally being available streaming mainstream,

cuz it wasn't for a very long time.

Yeah.

H B O Max is the biggest streaming service the show

had, I believe, ever been on.

It might have been on Amazon Prime at one point at maybe five or six years ago.

Or longer than that.

It was on IMDBs streaming service for a while, which I didn't know

was a thing until it was dead

I didn't know it was a thing till you said it just now.

So yeah now at this point, cuz if you're into the minutiae of our podcast

production, we've been using HBO O max order as our order for the episodes.

At this point there is no difference going forward.

right.

I think it was those first two seasons.

set.

Yeah.

So watching on Voodoo or Apple or YouTube won't make a difference if you are

catching up on this podcast afterwards.

And we did not watch it in your order and you were like,

what are they talking about?

It's not an HBO O Max, what's the, that's what happened.

Welcome to the present.

Sorry, . Uh, It would've been great if they had kept it, but uh, I do, if you're

gonna watch it on Apple, that is fun because then we'll have two different

episode descriptions, theoretically.

You think, you think the different services all have a different description?

we'll find out next week, won't we?

Yeah, I guess we will.

Um, So we can we'll go with that.

Going forward, we can get both of them and maybe there's fun little differences

that we can pick apart or something.

I feel like some of the descriptions that have been in

HBO O Max have been a bit spoily.

Like they tell.

Big things that are gonna happen in the episode.

But also sometimes they're very vague.

It's, it's a weird balance cuz it'll be all like, oh Sheridan has a surprise

visitor come to the station also, wado blows up 10 planets, and you're just like,

Yeah.

It's been a wide, wide range.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

But yeah.

So hopefully listener, you have a means of continuing to watch Babylon five.

I hope that it doesn't impact you greatly.

It's a bummer, and if you've been watching it with us and this is your

first time watching and you're watching it along with us, I hope this doesn't

impede your ability to continue enjoying this very excellent show.

Yeah.

Same.

So the other bit of B five news that dropped while you were out of the country,

Mm-hmm.

Was Jason Carter's son.

In England wrote a piece for the medium or medium.com and you may

have seen this listener, it was really big after it dropped, it

dropped on December 20th, 2022.

And it's a piece called my dad Starred in a hit TV show with a severe brain injury.

And right at the top of the article it's got two of like Jason Carter's,

you know, his headshot and then one of his babble on five promo photos.

so this was a, a really interesting piece and there was a lot of like

little internet buzz around it.

I don't know if you got to see much of that jafa.

No, I was very disconnected from the internet during most of my trip.

Yeah, yeah.

I know I sent it over, but I didn't expect you to look at it

cuz you had other things to do.

Yeah, I, I did open it up and I did read about half

of it before I fell asleep.

My only internet phone time was really like right before bed,

so

You had other things to walk around and to see in Jason Carter's

home country . Well, part part of it.

Yeah.

So his son is Benny Carts is what he's written this under.

apparently, and I had not heard this before.

He speaks about Jason Carter having a traumatic brain injury in 1992.

He starts his article.

I'm not gonna read this whole thing to you, but this, this

start of the article is very good.

He says, A double decker bus rattles through Central London

standing in an open doorway.

Gripping the stanchion is a handsome young man.

We can all picture Jason Carter doing this.

Yes, his eyes are bright, his hair jet black, his smile wide and infectious.

Suddenly the bus takes a corner too fast.

The man is jettisoned onto the road at a terrific speed.

His head takes the brunt of the impact, amid the screams and

confusion and rising sirens.

Blood continues to flow from his ears as he lies motionless upon the tarmac.

Yeah.

he goes on to tell about this was a traumatic brain injury that Jason Carter

suffered and from, at least from Benny Cart's point of view, Jason Carter was

not the same after this incident in 1992.

you know, it, it's one of those things.

It's interesting because this is his son's point of view and

it's his son's truth, obviously.

We don't know the extent that this is true for Jason Carter.

I don't think he's ever spoken about it, that we know.

I was uh, completely unaware, but I'm also not a

Jason Carter biographer, so.

Right.

Benny Carts talks about he Jason Carter after he recovered from

this injury, wasn't the same.

The marriage that he had with Benny's mother, you know, falls apart.

But marriages fall apart for lots of reasons.

and he moved off to LA to pursue being an actor in the United States.

He apparently was, had quite an up and coming career in

the UK before he left for la.

there was some scuttlebutt that I saw in some of the BA Babylon five forums

that previously JMS had mentioned that Michael O'Hare wasn't the only

person on the show who had a mental.

Mm-hmm.

but then I saw after this came out that JM OSS also tweeted

about it and he said that, they were never aware that Jason Carter had any

kind of traumatic brain injury and that he was always very professional

on set and always very prepared.

One of the things Benny mentions is that Jason would uh, have to

memorize his lines right before a scene in order to not forget them.

I don't know how uncommon that would be for an actor though.

For TV acting, I think that's part of the norm.

Yeah, it feels, it feels normal.

cause you, when it's not, when that's not the case,

it's usually a pretty big deal.

Like I've had, I've seen that be made a big deal before,

Mm-hmm.

because it's a different type of acting.

You get to do more improvisational stage style acting.

Yeah.

But, you know, a TV show is a lot of lines like to memorize that.

Days ahead of time.

I don't know that I would do it.

I couldn't, no

I know.

Yeah.

No

He doesn't mention his father specifically by name in the article.

He mentions the character of Marcus Cole.

But, you know, the article's full of pictures of his father.

Some people mention that might be to keep it less Googleable like, so when you

Google Jason Carter, this isn't gonna show

Be the first thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

but he talks about, you know, trying to repair his relationship with his dad

after he left, England, and he remarried when he was in the United States.

He has a sister, I guess, from the United States that he's very close to.

So you, you like to hear that the family's not totally broken.

But yeah, it's, it's a really interesting piece because.

, traumatic brain injury is not dissimilar from what Michael

O'Hare went through in some ways.

Yeah.

I'm sure that there's some overlap there.

I mean, it's, medical science is not at a point where that's, you know, you can

really definitively say what happens,

Mm-hmm.

for sure.

with

Brains are hard.

Yeah, they are.

Brains are very hard to understand.

pounds of fat with a thunderstorm in it.

It's, it's crazy.

basically.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think it's an interesting piece.

You know, I hope it was really healing for Benny to Wright.

I hope it doesn't hurt Jason if, you know, it's in the, in his sphere of, vision.

But you know, it sounds like.

Maybe the other cast and crew weren't aware I'd heard.

I saw something on Reddit about how two of our big actors in this show,

Jerry Doyle and Bruce Box Leitner, who we have noted before, have some

conservative views that the only person on the cast who was willing to stand up

to them and talk back was Jason Carter

Mm.

And uh, I just, I find that delightful, whether or not it has

anything to do with his brain that Jason Carter would maybe sass back a little.

I want to, I want that in my head.

Well, we hope, like you had mentioned that this article was an

exercise in healing for his son.

Much like our characters at the end of this episode go through

their own kind of cycle of healing.

We've . Got.

Season three, episode 11, ceremonies of light and dark.

Yeah.

So we're here at the mid-season.

The, the mid-season, the midpoint of the season, the midpoint of the.

Mm-hmm.

Has been turned over now and we open on night watch getting thrown off

the station along with anyone else who wanted to go to Earth or another colony.

They rattle off a ton of colony names right off the top, except for Mars.

Mars is the only one missing off that list.

No one's going to Mars.

Yeah.

Mars is war zone, presumably.

yes, but I did find it interesting that they like mentioned Earth and like

proxima and stuff, the colonies that had broken off and declared independence.

Some people are going to those places.

In addition, it's so, it's not just people who are necessarily loyalist to

earth gov that are leaving the station.

Some people are leaving to go to their own former colonies, presumably, or maybe

they're freedom fighters of some variety

or who knows.

But there's a bunch of ships of people leaving the station.

We see Garibaldis broken arm.

they worked into the plot cuz he broke it during filming during the

last episode as we talked about.

Very fitting.

And then we get a little bit of a plot lead that we're gonna be

following through for some of this episode on the admin passwords on

the station needing to get changed.

Did you need another Boomers using Computers Moment

because you're gonna get it

we'll talk about it when we get there.

But some of these passwords, I'm actually not upset about

Yeah, sure.

Sure.

So uh, were they, the, the basic problem here is they've shut

off communication to the station from all sources because, , anyone who's

got this master admin password, much like the command codes used in Star

Trek, the wrath of Con could just use it to take control of the ship and

do things they don't want them to do.

Um, now in Star Trek, it's like, oh, we'll drop their shields and

then fire on them in Babylon five.

They're like, oh, they're just gonna turn off life support.

like,

on a quarter million

open all of the airlocks and just jettison everyone is not

outta the realm of possibility here, the way they're talking about this,

and it's just like, fucking yikes.

So we gotta get those reset, get something new in last pass there.

And as they're talking about all this Garibaldi also notes that

Sheridan is not wearing his jacket.

He's just wearing a plain, old button down.

Yeah, he's got his uh, under, Uniform dress shirt on that we, he's

been rocking for a couple of episodes and talks a little bit about how

he'll wear it when the time is right.

You know, they, if they're an independent state, he can't be repping them.

And he understands that.

And then he espouses the merit of management by walking around and he's

just gonna go walk around the station and just let people know he is there.

Yeah.

I think at a time like this when people are feeling uncertain and people are

feeling very nervous, seeing somebody who is an authoritative figure with

a reassuring, very dazzling smile on their face is uh, Something

that this place is gonna need.

Mm-hmm.

, we cut over to the war room and we see the new babble on

five logo for the first time.

Oh

it's on the table there.

So the old Babylon five logo was like up in one place in cnc and you see

it maybe like five times before this.

So if you go looking for this image, no, you're digging.

Because I went looking for this image and I was digging but the old B five logo

was like a big five with an olive branch.

And then there's like a kind of like little starfield underneath it.

The new B five logo, the olive branch is gone.

It's been replaced by a sword.

Yeah.

The sword kind of runs through the five and then it's

a uh, field in the background with blue and gray and six stars.

And I really wanted the internet to tell me what those six stars

Right?

The everything's supposed to mean something.

Yeah.

everything means something on this show, right?

And I'm like, okay, well five stars would've made sense

cuz it's Babylon five, right?

But there's six stars, so something's going on there.

And I'm like, okay, well, like.

Human Mbar, Narn vlan, Sonari League and Line Worlds is like the only thing I could

kind of put together that made sense.

But I could not find out anything.

So then I started looking at other logos in B five to see if

maybe it was something in there.

And I noticed the Ranger logo actually has five stars on it,

which I also thought was very interesting.

And then the ISA logo, which is a spoiler, so I won't say what the ISA

stands for, but it's an organization that's not in the plot yet, has 15

stars on the logo, three sets of five.

Interesting.

And I figured that would be in tribute to Babylon.

Five for reasons that will make sense when the organization comes

into effect in the plot listener.

I won't say anything else about it.

I don't wanna spoil anything.

But I find it very interesting that the Ranger logo had five stars.

, and that's the old Ranger logo before Sinclair took over.

Mm-hmm.

And they changed it from two Mbar holding up the thing to a mbar

and a human holding up the thing.

And I started letting other races in.

So the old logo had five stars running across and they got rid of that.

I'm just like, but I couldn't find anything on what those five stars meant.

I went mad digging around the internet on this, but it's a really cool logo.

The Shield six stars, the sword.

It's sweet logo.

I've thought about getting it as a tattoo before

It

Full

a good one.

Yeah, it'd

I, I went the same place you went in my mind with

the, the stars counting races.

So, I mean, that seems pretty logical.

Other than the more disappointing answer that could be.

You know, someone in graphic design was like, well, this works

Yeah.

It's visually balanced this way.

And I was like, you're you're right.

But I'm mad at it,

Yeah,

Anyway len's thanking the Mbar who helped save the station

at the end of last episode.

yeah.

All those, those worships that came in.

mm-hmm.

, one of the captains is asking for a tour.

And then uh, she has a conversation with Lanier at the end where she's

like, prophecy is a poor guide because you only know you've found

prophecy after you've found prophecy.

That's, that's like how it works.

Also, you can find them everywhere.

Yes.

you know, you could be like, oh, this meets the prophecy

and this also meets the prophecy.

I think that's one of the big themes in Game of Thrones, right, is that you

have big fulfillments of prophecy, but also little fulfillments of prophecy.

So yeah, not a, not a good map for the future.

Don't rely on this, not gps.

Sheridan starts to walk around the station and moves right under

a sniper's, crosshairs to theme.

so dramatic.

This was very stressful for me to watch

Yeah.

Because there's no reason for this person not to take this shot, right?

Except

there is, uh, so someone stops the shooter from taking the

shot under the uh, acknowledgement that it's just going to turn him

into a murder and galvanize people.

So did you recognize this actor?

I did recognize him briefly, and I Googled a bit, but mostly what I found

was people complaining about the makeup job on his scar, and his scar is real

real.

Yes.

So this actor is, I'm g gonna give him a name.

Don Stroud.

Right.

that sounds

he was back in Tko o

Yes.

he was our um, space.

Mr.

Miyagi.

Right?

He was the uh, he was Caliban, he was the coach for Garibaldis friend.

Yeah.

He had a bit of loaf then.

and if you look at, if you look at Caliban, he has a similar scar over

his eye, but obviously as he's an alien, there is more makeup applied to that.

So you, you could be forgiven for not recognizing the scar itself, but

yes, Don Stroud really had that scar.

It is.

That's an intense one.

Like I got some cool scars, but nothing, nothing like that.

nothing that impacts bodily function, thankfully.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wonder if that impacted his vision.

I don't

know.

it must have,

Yeah.

I, I can't imagine it not impacting his vision

So,

bog stops our sniper from shooting Sheridan and we find out Marcus is back.

Marcus has returned to the station.

Dalen and Deline greet him and Dylann wants to have a

rebirth ceremony for everyone.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

This is the same ceremony that they did back in season.

Yeah.

She mentions that, doesn't she?

Mm-hmm.

wants to do it again.

She's gotta get remarried.

Yeah.

Marcus is a little bit cagey on this.

He doesn't think that this is a good time to do this particular ceremony.

not a good time to hold a wedding in the middle of a war.

Right?

Like maybe, maybe this is not now.

Like eh,

Yeah, because right now we have to do a funeral.

So Sheridan does put on his dress uniform for this.

I

caught that too.

yeah, he has respect for the dead or, you know, this

type of respect for the dead.

They have a, a nice military service and, you know, do the traditional

shoot the coffins off into space.

I assume based off of this, that they were shooting them into the,

Yeah.

Which is good if they're just shooting them off into space.

That's very bad.

Yeah.

That's like debris.

They can hit something.

It's gonna just go forever.

yeah, it's going to float in space for a long time probably if it, if it,

if it makes it like enough time to get outside of the solar system or whatever.

But these things could become comets.

They could hit planets.

Like, and what are they made out of?

Like, is this something that could survive, you know, reentry into orbit or

something like, why would you do that?

Like, I have so many questions and none of them will ever be answered.

Surely because we are in a solar system and we are around

Epsilon three, like we're, we're shooting them into the sun.

But yeah, and it's like, what if, what if somebody intercepts your coffin and then

like desecrates your dead person, like

I mean, well that could be like how you find out stuff about aliens too,

like.

You know, like some pra find it or something and they're

like, oh, sweet delivery.

Wow.

These people we live next to are Tasty

Oh, like, it's, oh, I just got so many.

I hope they just shot 'em right into the, I'm gonna assume for my own mental health.

They just shot 'em right into the sun.

Yeah.

Surely

After this we see Refa on the station.

Yeah.

Lord.

Reha

is back.

he's here to talk to Lando and he's is Lake Lando.

You've summoned me here instead of coming to home World.

What is this madness

There it is.

Gonna get one every time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Londo is very accommodating.

He's got a drink ready for Lord Refa.

He wants to talk about how many fronts Refa and his pals have started to war on.

they're doing so much war right now.

Like one war is bad, but 12 is the number alondo throws.

They're fighting 12 wars right now.

That's absurd.

I want to know where all 12 of these fronts are, because we've heard

them talk about with the drowsy the Narn.

Is that still a front?

I don't

probably

Yeah.

it probably count if, if it's a place that is diverting military

attention, it counts as a front.

Sure.

Okay.

So in addition to the two we know about,

two.

Yeah, there's

are 10 more

And I mean, it's safe to assume cuz we've seen some like meetings with

other members of the nine online worlds.

We seen like three or four of those.

I want to say at this point, it's safe to assume those are conflicts,

but that's still like not half

Yeah.

Who are all these people that they're fighting?

Seems like a bad idea.

I'm with Londo on this one.

for sure.

He calls out Rafa's reliance on Mr.

Morden.

REFA plays dumb for a minute and then Alando like, shows him a recording

of Refa, talking about working with, and then is just like, gotcha, bitch.

He's just like, I got the receipts.

Yeah.

Londo is recording everything now.

Presumably

Mm-hmm.

Solando uses this and he tells Refa how it's gonna be and he

straight up pulls a Sinclair season.

mm-hmm.

the same, the same tricks.

Sinclair pulled on Ja car.

He's all like, I just gave you half of a poison.

When am I gonna give you the other half?

Depends on your actions.

Yeah.

I thought this felt familiar.

Yeah.

It's something they can lay dormant in this system, but eventually when

it gets the other sec, second half

game over, man.

You know, he says, if we're gonna act like these are the good old days of the

Sonari Republic, let's bring back poison.

Let's make poison a thing, bro.

Yeah.

Poison was the favored weapon of the old republic.

And it's back.

Yeah.

Seems very Roman, right?

It feels like a fall of the

Not an accident.

Mm-hmm.

.Yeah.

We cut over to security where they are resetting the master passwords.

Everyone gives their code word, they get one code word, and they're all miserable.

Except for Garabaldi.

Garabaldi is three words in two special characters.

Oh, that's a good point.

Isn't it?

Garabaldi is a passphrase instead of a password, which is always better.

The more characters in your passwords, the better

Mm-hmm.

. Mm-hmm.

I say this as an information technology professional.

Believe me, mathematically, like the way it all works, it's better.

Just, I can write you a small s I've, I've done this rant on this podcast,

Yeah.

Yeah.

passphrases,

it's just insane to me that so many of the systems that I have to use for.

. It's like password can be maximum of 14 characters.

And I'm like, but why?

or six or eight for some of your old ones.

And it's like no special characters allowed and you're just like

Yes.

There's a few that it's like, you can use this, these five special characters.

And it's like, why?

Why only those, that makes it worse.

Right?

Yes, it definitely does.

oh, well nobody, nobody hacked my systems, please.

We actually, they show us the station master admin codes real

quick on the screen, and they are like 128 characters of gibberish.

And I'm real happy about that.

Yeah.

I mean that's, that's living the dream, right?

Yeah, assuming that they don't have quantum computers.

If they have quantum computers, it's useless, but if they don't, and I'm

guessing their computers are about as good as ours right now, based off the search

times from Google Great pass password.

Very

Yeah.

Yes.

After this uh, Dalen stops in to pitch the rebirth ceremony to Sheridan.

he's always down to do something to Lynn wants to do.

Right.

Yeah.

Wonder why

Uhhuh.

Yeah.

She wants to invite, you know, all the command staff am ambassadors,

especially Wado and Kar,

Mm-hmm.

, they

even.

Yep.

of course they, they, they do.

But in the meantime, they, we still have some of those

members of night watch on board.

Yes.

We learn our domestic terrorists are actually just night watch, and

I wish that was a fucking surprise.

Yeah.

They decide to attack Len in an attempt to get them

imbar to abandon the station.

So that way Earth Force can swoop in and take it back.

Yeah.

If the mumbar cruisers weren't here, this would all be moot.

So if we can attack Delin and get those cruisers to leave we

can maybe win our side back.

Yep.

And then you start singing nursery rhymes because that's just fucking creepy.

Yeah.

This is just the worst, like, ugh, . this actor did a great job.

He did a great job.

Don't like his character at all.

Very bad.

Super creepy.

We cut to Marcus, who's dodging answering questions about

attending the Rebi ceremony,

Yeah, he's been hanging out in his bar

mm-hmm.

, I'm just gonna get some information.

Oh, bye.

. Look, someone I needed to talk to.

Yeah.

In security.

Garibaldis done resetting the computer for all these passwords and Oh, oopsy.

He's the boomer and he messed it up.

He forgot to click not to install the ai, Cortana just autos installed with

Windows 10, and now he's stuck with it.

Uh, Did you look up who the voice of the AI is, by the

I didn't, I didn't.

It's Harlan Ellison.

Fantastic.

It's so good.

Is, is he affecting, I'm assuming he's affecting this accent.

Yes.

Or is that how he talks?

I've no idea.

I've never heard his voice in a recording or anything.

I, in my brain, it's how he talks.

N that's just, that's just him now.

it's a very strong, like Bronx accent, right?

It's something New York.

I, I don't pretend to know all my New York accents.

And it's a very um, Not compliant.

AI

No, he's, he's not having it.

Okay.

Looks like Harlan was from Cleveland.

So I'm gonna guess that's an accent he was

Yeah, he's just funning with us.

I hope.

Yeah.

It's very comical this whole bit.

This is our comedy bit for this episode.

Ugh, I'm here for it though.

So the AI was present when the station went online and it was messing

everything up, so they shut it down

Yeah.

No kidding.

And

yeah, it's back

one.

so.

Oh boy.

Well, at the same time, Dylan is also trying to like pitch the

rebirth ceremony to other people.

Yep.

And she approaches Lando and you know how Lando feels about boring things,

Yeah.

Alondo is a real insensitive dick.

Um, real insensitive tentacle about.

not attending the ceremony.

I don't, I don't know what word to use there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think was what they were called.

Damnit.

That's never gonna leave my brain.

he is very open that he would rather be doing things

that involve drinking and festivities and debauchery and

you know, he doesn't want anybody trying to save his soul, basically.

It's like, take, take your evangelical nonsense somewhere else kind of person.

And you know, Kar I think is perhaps a little more sensitive

to the religious aspect of it, but he has other things to do.

He's just busy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's got station security to worry about because he inherited Gar Aldi's job.

Yeah.

at least part of it, but yeah.

So again, Londo Kar not gonna play ball on the special ceremony.

Marcus's feelings are still a little bit elusive at this point.

He's clearly not into it.

But he, he won't own up to that just yet.

Yeah.

Solen sensing this is like, well, we're just gonna hang out all

day then and you can tell me why.

Eventually

yeah, she's very persistent.

she sends linear off to make preparations and insists

that Marcus attend to the tour for the Mbar captain with her.

Yeah.

He opens up finally.

and he's got a lot of guilt.

He's carrying around, I guess he's got some survivor's guilt you might call it.

Yeah.

he's doesn't have a home anymore.

All of his possessions are gone.

He lost his brother because he didn't heed the warning about the shadows.

And all he has left is the Rangers really,

Yep.

and his mission and his cause.

Which is this whole, like, I know this story has nothing to do with Jason

Carter's personal thing, but I wonder if his acting here is so great because he

did like give up his home in England and, and moved to LA not too long before this.

So, I

don't know, it's just an interesting,

definitely something he could have been drawing on.

interesting lens to look at it through.

Yeah.

Dylann tells him he needs to forgive himself for surviving, and

then they immediately get jumped by those domestic terrorists.

Yeah, Marcus walks away angrily, I think, or you know, upset.

And uh, as he's left, Len alone with Lenon walking up they

get seized by the terrorists.

Mm-hmm.

They make their demands and kill off the Captain's Aid.

They have to get the Imbar ships to leave.

Babble on five Space?

Did you clock the guy playing the mbar captain?

No.

He is one of our repeats.

He's the drowsy one of the draws.

He, we keep seeing So this is Kim Straus, and according to

the Babylon five, like wiki.

Mm-hmm.

He's been a drowsy, a marab, and an arn, which I think clocks with all

the times I've heard his voice and been like, oh, that's that same guy, So this

is probably the closest we get to seeing his actual face since the mbar aren't

quite as heavily made up as the others.

Yeah, a lot of those races are super uh, loaf heavy.

Yeah, yeah.

Like he's probably got some forehead stuff going on for

that, you know, head bone thing.

But this is as close as you get seeing Kim Straus.

So we see uh, Marcus goes to down below to get information

and throw some threats around.

And we cut to our sniper who says he learned the imbar language

from prisoners so he could tell them to dig their own graves.

he's great.

I logistically that would be very difficult.

Mm-hmm.

. The menari language is not easy, I'm thinking.

We, we've had lip service paid how difficult of a language it is to learn,

mm-hmm.

Multiple times.

So to pick it up from people not trying, actively trying

to hide what the words mean

actually,

is absurd to me.

But I'm sure you know, if you've got a a, a polygon mind and that's just how

your brain works, you can handle it.

It's not how my brain works.

Nope.

Same.

So They do call in a threat.

These night watch terrorists call in a threat to c and c or to the command staff.

And Garibaldi clocks the man with the scar bogs.

He's familiar with him.

Yeah.

He's one of the night watch guys who was on regular security shifts.

They, they tell them that there's still people in the security organization

that will tell them what's going on,

Yeah.

Not a

which don't play that card.

Like, I don't know, maybe it's just me, , but

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, maybe, maybe you wanna keep that one under your hat.

But it does get under Aldi's skin for sure.

Mm-hmm.

He's not like, he's, he's pretty sensitive to having

a mole in his organization.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not been good for him in the past.

Yeah.

So they, they kind of can get an idea that this is in, down below

or it's somewhere, in the less desirable parts of the station,

but they got no idea where exactly we cut back to Marcus,

who's made good on his threats and taken out everyone at this bar.

Yeah.

I love this .this is a very endearing time for Marcus.

I, I think it's better that we don't see him kick everyone's ass.

Like

The mystery of the ask

Mm-hmm.

. But now the people that were uh, not afraid of Marcus when he interrupted their

poker game, they are cowering at his feet.

Yeah.

If they're conscious,

If they're conscious, he has to wait a bit because

he has knocked everyone out.

Lanier comes down and was all like, Hey, I'm

helping prep for the ceremony.

And Marcus is just like, the fuck, what are you doing?

He's just like, it's the last thing d let asked me to do.

I'm gonna fucking do it

I'm doing the thing.

I am a

responsible person.

Yeah, he's, he's very loyal.

And uh, part of the ceremony we learned is admitting a secret.

yeah.

You have to tell something, someone something that you've

never told anyone else before.

And linear's like, look, I'm gonna be too busy doing all this shit.

So secret time.

I love dalen.

Oh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This, this color is linear in a whole different light for me.

Yeah, that's fair.

I mean, his obvious crush on Dalen is, I don't know if it's just because I knew.

because I've seen the show.

But it was obvious, like for me it was like just part of his character.

At this point, it's so baked in that this is not a twist for me.

So also as a dude, I'm sure I feel very differently about this.

You just throw that out there.

Yeah.

of course, he's the creepy friend with a crush.

Yeah.

Yeah.

At least he told Marcus.

I guess.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Marcus is understandably surprised.

Yes.

It doesn't feel predatory to me at all,

No.

No.

but I could understand someone reading it that way,

Yeah.

It doesn't

not how I,

like

no, it doesn't feel healthy.

That's where

my discomfort comes from.

It's definitely obsessive, which is why I feel like it's important

to note that personally I don't, I did not read this as predatory

because it'd be very easy to take something that is this obsessive

and it becomes something predatory.

Yes

but I don't think that's linear or particularly religious cast maari, to be

Yeah,

so, you know, their brains are alien.

They're literally wired differently, so

Right.

So Linear is acknowledging that this love is nothing he can ever say to

her because her destiny is somewhere else, you know, prophecy and whatnot.

But they're interrupted by one of.

Informants waking up and Marcus finally gets something useful out of this person.

Just in time too.

Cuz we cut over to senior staff and they're trying to

really put down where this is.

Mm-hmm.

, Xhafer: Um,

of an idea.

and they can narrow it down to a couple of things and Marcus

shows up and gives them the piece of the information they needed.

So now they know what sector and what floor and when they look

they see, hey, Garabaldi shut down this with his personal codes.

And he's just

Oh,

no.

Yeah, those

Someone knew my password.

Peekaboo, it was so secure.

right?

Oh boy.

Better get on that.

Garrett Baldy.

Yeah, so they can't get in one way, in or out, and so they

decide to like stage a accident

Yeah.

that would force everyone to leave this area.

Mm-hmm.

. They fake a reactor leak to push them out of hiding.

As, as the Mumbar are leaving.

So they're like surrendering to the demand at the same time as they're

pushing everybody out of there.

Yep.

Do you have the episode pulled up?

I don't, but I can.

Do I

It's, nah, I, I'll just describe it.

So if 7 25 left in the episode, the mbar captain here is tied up, takes

out two dudes, breaks his wrist cuffs, and then frees dalen in about four

seconds in the background of a shot.

And it's just absurd.

Yeah.

he like two fist Kirk punches someone.

he's not warrior cast, right?

These were specifically religious cast ships, but we've seen Lanier fight

Yeah.

Lanier walks into the bar and he's just like, oh, I guess

they trained you decently.

Like, this is a bit sloppy, don't you think?

And we've seen Lanier take out a whole bar of people, so

Yeah.

Yeah.

So as they're all leaving with this commotion security gets an

ambush on 'em, gets a drop on 'em.

Yep.

In the, in the ambush hallway.

I feel like we've had like seven ambushes take place in the same hallway.

our babble bevel and five characters are very

good at hallway ambush.

right?

Well,

they've still got this one hallway set up for ambushes.

They just lead everyone there.

Uhhuh.

Take care of business.

Yeah.

I think Ivanova gets bogs.

Yeah.

Gu Baldi and, and Sheridan gets some more.

Out.

Yep.

And then Dalen gets knifed,

yes our creepy man throws a knife at her and right in

Yep.

Sheridan catches her, eases her down and is just like someone

take care of her, chases that dude down and knocks him the fuck out.

Yeah.

Sheridan has some loose ideas about justice we've seen in the

past and he's not going to just take this man into custody.

Nope.

As long as he's alive for trial, I feel like are words that left

his lips here and it's just like, does he have to wear a body cam?

I hope he has to wear a body cam.

right.

I feel like, I feel like everyone in authority on Babylon

five should probably have one

I mean, we, we see all sides of the story here, so

we know this guy deserves it.

right.

But he doesn't, you know, Sheridan does not know all sides of the story, so

Yeah.

Yeah.

does not have the omnipresent view that we are presented in this story.

So he just takes him the fuck out.

Cut to the aftermath.

Dylan will be fine.

The rebirth ceremony will not be happening though, because she's

going to be recovering in Med Bay.

Mm-hmm.

Garabaldi gets accosted by the AI and decides violence is the answer.

Yeah.

. We gotta have a little humor in this episode.

So when the, the AI sassing him in the elevator, he just shoots it.

shoots the speaker, I should say.

yeah.

And Med Lab, Dylan is.

asking Lanier to rest, but he won't leave her side, which is now colored a

little bit by his previous confessions,

Yep.

But then Sheridan comes in and he's bringing the rebirth ceremony to her.

he uh, takes something that means something to him,

which is his uniform, as we've had referenced a couple of times here.

And he leaves that and he tells her the secret he loves her.

He doesn't use the L word cuz they're not dating and that'd be

a bit much but, you know he knows,

Yeah.

for her.

Mm-hmm.

Garra Baldy comes in after and leaves his uniform and admits he's

afraid of losing himself to himself,

Mm.

uh, which I assume is a reference to his troubles with

alcohol uh, but might also be.

A number of other things.

You know, honestly, his uh, fear of working with telepaths and stuff.

There's a little bit of foreshadowing here uh, with stuff

that comes down the line too.

Ivan comes in, admits she loved Talia

Yeah.

word,

Finally.

right?

Wish that had been fleshed out a little more, but at least we have

a, an open acknowledgement of it.

Mm-hmm.

. Big deal.

Big deal for the show.

Glad they managed to make it happen at this is the point where . As we talked

about in the beginning of the season, that JMS stopped getting notes after the

start of season three from the station about what he can and cannot broadcast.

They just let him do whatever he wanted, and I think this is him

starting to test those water.

And then last week at Franklin and he's ready to admit at least to one

person that he might have a problem.

And we know from previous episodes that he's referring to the stems.

Mm-hmm.

And that will be another plot line that we see carried through this season.

Yeah, I think it'll be coming up soon.

So they've all given up their uniforms in addition to their personal secrets

and uh, linear says, Hey, we kind of thought that you all might drop those off.

So we had somebody drop something off in your quarters.

Yeah.

no big deal.

So they, they put on their new uniforms and the crew rolls

into C N C with the fresh dip, and everyone's like, yo where's mine?

Because I also work in the station that's abandoned Earth Force and

there's like a ton of us here that are officers working here every day.

So if the station's getting into uniform, maybe we should get those.

No, no, not in the budget.

Only the four.

Even Zack doesn't.

Okay.

The, but the jackets look so good

They look so good.

I love this uniform.

This is one of my favorite uniforms in all of sci-fi.

It's just the cut of the jacket, just the little inlays and stuff.

I say that the HD remaster really did something for that too, because I

didn't realize the different fabrics involved in, like, the collar area.

And then there's the little the gray fabric on the, the chest.

I didn't realize that it was as detailed as it.

So these are officially considered the uniforms of the army of.

Uhhuh.

Which is, I don't think something they've said yet.

I don't think the army of light's been thrown around yet, but knowing that

they're fighting the upcoming shadow war.

So the fact that the army of light uniforms are primarily

black and dark colors,

Yeah.

very interesting.

, I, I dig that.

There's a lot of . Very subtle detail, like there is green up against purple

in a couple of places on this uniform which is also the ranger emblem

has that green and purple right

there.

So it's kind of a callback to that as well, while being something distinct.

I love it.

I love this uniform.

I regularly get an ad on my Facebook for a hoodie version of this uniform,

Oh man.

I want one

right.

It's like printed.

It's like one of those like printed uniform ones.

They have 'em for all the Star Trek uniforms too and stuff.

And I look at 'em and I'm all like, kind of cool.

But there's some really nice ones out there, I'm sure for Star Trek.

And maybe if we ever get a remake merch, give me merch,

me, yep.

I need new merch.

Give it to me.

let me buy the thing.

Yeah.

And then we get uh, Takeshima line B five is open for

business, just like the pilot to

theme here.

Nice way to end.

Halfway.

Yeah.

All right.

Laura, what'd you think of this one?

Give me a, gimme a rating on a scale of Babylon's one to five.

Oh man.

I think I have to give this one just a three.

Yeah,

Is that weird?

no.

Okay.

There's a few parts that don't quite come together for me, and

it, it felt tonally, very shifty.

Like we have a lot going on.

Yeah, there is a disorienting sense of juxtaposition

in this episode for sure.

It's all over the place and it's just like one thing, new thing, new thing.

Ha Harlan Ellison's doing a New York accent, making

a joke.

And then domestic terrorism.

I, my, my notes say, fuck this episode.

Really?

Um, so Dalen owns this episode and if we were to just take Dalen in

this episode, especially her speech about pitying the domestic terrorist dude, which

we didn't really get into, but is one of the highlights of this episode for me.

Yeah.

She gets a babble on four for me.

A hundred percent.

The ending, you know, I love these uniforms but fuck these mayonnaise on

Wonder Bread sandwich eating fucks.

Uh, and, and maybe it's me being sensitive to things.

Maybe it's because we're recording this two days after the anniversary

of the January 6th insurrection.

Um, and I, and I watched this on January 6th and so I will completely own that.

It is more than likely that confluence of things that is influencing me and

leading me towards a fuck this episode.

I don't think I can give it a full fuck this episode cuz there's

some really great moments in it.

And the domestic terrorist stuff is not, if, if there had been more

of it, I'll a hundred percent it'd be a fuck this episode for me.

But, . I think that juxtaposition pulls me out of the episode so much that I can't,

I don't really feel strongly about it

in any regard.

you, like you said, Dalen very good in this episode.

Everything that's happening around her is pretty chaotic and disjointed.

I really think that the AI bit would've been better off in a different episode.

Mm-hmm.

like we didn't need that.

I think if this were a script that you handed to a college

professor in a TV writing class, they would tell you to pick one thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Shave, shave a little.

It's like um, Coco Chanel used to say, you know, get dressed, put all your

accessories on, and then take one.

and then you're dressed

yeah.

I think that's Coco Chanel.

I could be stealing it from someone else, but that's the

way I've heard it attributed.

Yeah.

No, and that's, that's how I feel about this one.

So it's hard to rate it because I feel like it's a couple of

distinct episodes and I feel very differently about those episodes.

So I, I, we'll, we'll say three.

I guess I'll, I'll, it's, it's a middle of the road because of this.

Parts of it are great and parts of it I made me feel very strongly.

And if that was the goal, good job goal achieved.

If, you know, like we said before, the goal of art is to make you feel things.

Um, I felt things.

from this episode and I did not like feeling those things.

And sometimes that's important and sometimes, fuck this episode.

Indeed.

What we won't be saying that about though is next

week's episode, which is our

movie break.

We love movie break

It's movie break time.

I've not seen.

I'm very excited to watch this movie and my girlfriend is very

excited to watch this movie with me.

Her dog is named after one of the characters in this movie.

We're gonna be watching it Atlantis, the Lost Empire and I'm really

looking forward to watching it and talking about it next week.

Yes.

Until then, we'd like to thank Jeremy Siegel for our lovely theme music.

You can find more Jeremy's work at Jeremy Siegel 42 dot Bandcamp.

Do.

And thank you to Angry Duck Time Machine on Instagram for our podcast.

And go ahead and join our Discord and join our conversations there.

We're talking about all kinds of stuff as it happens, podcast stuff, life stuff.

It's great community.

Love the Discord.

So join that.

You can shoot us an email, who are you?

B five.gmail.com.

We'll read your email in our next mailbag segment.

And thanks to our editor, Aaron, for putting in all the legwork

and getting these episodes out.

Really appreciate

it.

Thank you.

definitely.

All right.

We'll see you next week.

Internet.